@keets said: I dont think anyone ships them raw with the coin pressed against the cardboard mailer
+1.
I wonder if PCGS will come to their senses and stop encapsulating these the way they did with those neon Proof Jefferson Nickels back around 2002-4. to me it's a little embarrassing. another example of this sort of thing was done by ex-forum member katysok. he took Modern Silver Dollar Commems and baked them in the oven to a uniform gold color and then submitted them individually or in small groups to PCGS till he had a complete set.
when he was done he exposed the "experiment" at this forum. I met him a few years later at a P.A.N. Show and still have the encapsulated Dollar he gave me.
A while back PCGS asked for proof for some of the sellers mentioned but I don't recall them getting any.
I sent a lengthy email that contained consecutive cert #’s of toners that all had the same type and colors of toning. Some were submissions of fifty or more from the same submitter. Many submissions were of one denomination or country of origin. I can’t say if it made any difference. I didn’t receive a reply.
@Baley said:
Well, if they're popular, they'll make more, and more and more.
Get "the latest" product, sell it to a greater fool. Then they'll make more.
That used to be done to create white coins, and we know where that ended up.
@keets said: I dont think anyone ships them raw with the coin pressed against the cardboard mailer
+1.
I wonder if PCGS will come to their senses and stop encapsulating these the way they did with those neon Proof Jefferson Nickels back around 2002-4. to me it's a little embarrassing. another example of this sort of thing was done by ex-forum member katysok. he took Modern Silver Dollar Commems and baked them in the oven to a uniform gold color and then submitted them individually or in small groups to PCGS till he had a complete set.
when he was done he exposed the "experiment" at this forum. I met him a few years later at a P.A.N. Show and still have the encapsulated Dollar he gave me.
A while back PCGS asked for proof for some of the sellers mentioned but I don't recall them getting any.
I sent a lengthy email that contained consecutive cert #’s of toners that all had the same type and colors of toning. Some were submissions of fifty or more from the same submitter. Many submissions were of one denomination or country of origin. I can’t say if it made any difference. I didn’t receive a reply.
@jwitten said:
So do yall think the sticky shipping cardboard would tone better, or non-sticky normal cardboard? Might be worth an experiment.
My first choice would be to use the outside; however, there may be something in the glue that works better. Try both sides. You can remove any residue with acetone.
Also, I would set the oven at a much lower temp so the cardboard does not ignite.
I am going to try normal cardboard and place it in the window seal, so it is a little more natural. I don't have many silver coins, so will be trying it with a Mexican one I have, that I don't even know where I got it.
@keets said: I dont think anyone ships them raw with the coin pressed against the cardboard mailer
+1.
I wonder if PCGS will come to their senses and stop encapsulating these the way they did with those neon Proof Jefferson Nickels back around 2002-4. to me it's a little embarrassing. another example of this sort of thing was done by ex-forum member katysok. he took Modern Silver Dollar Commems and baked them in the oven to a uniform gold color and then submitted them individually or in small groups to PCGS till he had a complete set.
when he was done he exposed the "experiment" at this forum. I met him a few years later at a P.A.N. Show and still have the encapsulated Dollar he gave me.
A while back PCGS asked for proof for some of the sellers mentioned but I don't recall them getting any.
I sent a lengthy email that contained consecutive cert #’s of toners that all had the same type and colors of toning. Some were submissions of fifty or more from the same submitter. Many submissions were of one denomination or country of origin. I can’t say if it made any difference. I didn’t receive a reply.
Have you seen any more "made" after that email?
I spent the last hour perusing their presence on eBay. I’m pleasantly surprised that their graded AT stuff has dwindled substantially. EDM has has 15k listings and MotherNature has over 12k. EDM has the majority of the AT stuff but it’s mostly raw. MNS has a lot of slabbed foreign and some Kennedy and Ike rim toned stuff. Probably never know if the market played out or PCGS made a change. Email sent June ‘19.
Looks like these were the last two of this submission. I searched up and down in the cert #'s. All QC. Top one went for 410 at Great Toning yesterday. Bottom one bid to over 100 today.
@bolivarshagnasty said:
Looks like these were the last two of this submission. I searched up and down in the cert #'s. All QC. Top one went for 410 at Great Toning yesterday. Bottom one bid to over 100 today.
At $121.50 closing tomorrow afternoon.
I don't expect this to go as high because it's toned on just one side and it's not a proof, but I'm still very curious to see where it goes.
@bolivarshagnasty said:
Looks like these were the last two of this submission. I searched up and down in the cert #'s. All QC. Top one went for 410 at Great Toning yesterday. Bottom one bid to over 100 today.
At $121.50 closing tomorrow afternoon.
I don't expect this to go as high because it's toned on just one side and it's not a proof, but I'm still very curious to see where it goes.
Here's another one I ran across. Somehow, I'm still fascinated by these.
This is a 1987 which is still needed for Michael Bugeja's Registry Set. Anyone know him and can let him know? I hope he gets it! I just found out he's a CoinWorld author too!
@davewesen said:
I think I will put a SAE in one of those Safe-T-Mailers I occasionally get and see what it looks like in a year.
Let us know the results and also the environment.
I think putting near humidity and a heat source will get you the most action. So, depending where you live, and/or your house's set up, the results may be drastic.
Someone in Florida likely going to get different results than same thing in Alaska.
Speaking as someone who used to display ASEs at home and has seen what happens when they aren't protected from the environment.
@yspsales said:
Don't understand why our host doesn't ban those who submit this junk.
Well because some of it is junk and some of it is legitimately toned coins. Bullion doesn't tone like .900 coinage- it tones quickly and dramatically. I have personally "discovered" at least 10 of these now that were stored in a way no more unnatural than a 2x2 paper envelope. It's modern bullion, sure, but some of the toning is legitimate and there are serious collectors of this pattern. It's a cool little niche oddity, why knock it?
not an oddity. but an example of the blurred lines between at and nt. it wasn't a chemical soup or gassing, and it is seen more than i'd think happens by "accidentally" being exposed to close contact with separated cardboard.
You're comparing bullion to coins again. The difference is the Silver Eagles were bought as an investment to be stored away. Some shops were sandwiching them in cardboard, where people then took them home and put them in safes and bank boxes for 20 years.
And I don't think you actually understand how the cardboard that creates this pattern was used to store the ASE's- it's not "separated". Do you think I'm suggesting people were de-plying cardboard boxes? It is and was a common shipping product. I get the skepticism, especially when I see badly AT'd ones with neon pinks and greens (like the ones not far back in this thread), but I don't think there is any more line blurring happening with these than with any other coin/bullion stored in or around cardboard or paper products. If people are trying to make these now, that is their own prerogative, but there are still natural ones being found.
He specializes in toners so that is what he looks for and buys. He has outbid me a few times on raw toners from eBay that later straight graded at PCGS. There is nothing nefarious going on as far as I can see.
I am grateful chromaticcoins has decided to join the forum and post.
He is one of the premier dealers in magnificantly toned coins.
I look forward to more of his expertise and opinions here on the boards.
@davewesen said:
I think I will put a SAE in one of those Safe-T-Mailers I occasionally get and see what it looks like in a year.
Let us know the results and also the environment.
I think putting near humidity and a heat source will get you the most action. So, depending where you live, and/or your house's set up, the results may be drastic.
Someone in Florida likely going to get different results than same thing in Alaska.
Speaking as someone who used to display ASEs at home and has seen what happens when they aren't protected from the environment.
I think I forgot to follow through - I do not buy raw white SAEs so that might have been the issue
No apology necessary, I understand the skepticism. Especially when I myself see how flooded the market is with AT coins. This is how I make my living, so the scam artists who are generating the distrust are very much my enemy as well. I'm happy to share what I can when I can, but with the exception of buying coins in original mint sets, ends of rolls, complete albums, etc- it's all an educated guessing game. I'm sourcing raw coins and using PCGS to authenticate, so my expertise is more in what is "market acceptable" toning as opposed to NT. Most of the time, those are one in the same, but we've all seen some bad calls, which certainly doesn't help ease people's skepticism either.
I honestly can't quite tell you- they are both me. I'm assuming the earlier account is with a different email and I just neglected to remember the account info or password. If I delete that account will it remove any comments I left under the account? I'll probably just leave it active if so.
Comments
I sent a lengthy email that contained consecutive cert #’s of toners that all had the same type and colors of toning. Some were submissions of fifty or more from the same submitter. Many submissions were of one denomination or country of origin. I can’t say if it made any difference. I didn’t receive a reply.
That used to be done to create white coins, and we know where that ended up.
Have you seen any more "made" after that email?
Mine never toned... so I stopped the experiment
I spent the last hour perusing their presence on eBay. I’m pleasantly surprised that their graded AT stuff has dwindled substantially. EDM has has 15k listings and MotherNature has over 12k. EDM has the majority of the AT stuff but it’s mostly raw. MNS has a lot of slabbed foreign and some Kennedy and Ike rim toned stuff. Probably never know if the market played out or PCGS made a change. Email sent June ‘19.
Looks like PCGS is taking action. All of these are QC in what looks like the same submission with the $410 1991-S ASE.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1049814/toning-as-art-qc-silver-eagle-sells-for-over-400#latest
It's worth noting that I haven't seen any of these come from EDM or MNT.
Looks like these were the last two of this submission. I searched up and down in the cert #'s. All QC. Top one went for 410 at Great Toning yesterday. Bottom one bid to over 100 today.
At $121.50 closing tomorrow afternoon.
I don't expect this to go as high because it's toned on just one side and it's not a proof, but I'm still very curious to see where it goes.
Closed at $126.50.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1993-PCGS-UNC-Detail-Questionable-Color-Rainbow-Toned-ASE-TrueView-gs273/333851219108?
Here's another one I ran across. Somehow, I'm still fascinated by these.
This is a 1987 which is still needed for Michael Bugeja's Registry Set. Anyone know him and can let him know? I hope he gets it! I just found out he's a CoinWorld author too!
“Here's another one I ran across. Somehow, I'm still fascinated by these.”
Summer is approaching and the attic is heating up. How many of these would you like?
It would be great is see if people can actually replicate this, like the Taco Bell napkin experiments.
Here's one more:
I think I will put a SAE in one of those Safe-T-Mailers I occasionally get and see what it looks like in a year.
It's a good idea to try out. Forum members use Taco Bell napkins so why not these?
Also, would 1 year be NT?
Not my cup of tea.
Wayne
Kennedys are my quest...
Here's one that didn't make the cut:
Let us know the results and also the environment.
I think putting near humidity and a heat source will get you the most action. So, depending where you live, and/or your house's set up, the results may be drastic.
Someone in Florida likely going to get different results than same thing in Alaska.
Speaking as someone who used to display ASEs at home and has seen what happens when they aren't protected from the environment.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
Don't understand why our host doesn't ban those who submit this junk.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Well because some of it is junk and some of it is legitimately toned coins. Bullion doesn't tone like .900 coinage- it tones quickly and dramatically. I have personally "discovered" at least 10 of these now that were stored in a way no more unnatural than a 2x2 paper envelope. It's modern bullion, sure, but some of the toning is legitimate and there are serious collectors of this pattern. It's a cool little niche oddity, why knock it?
not an oddity. but an example of the blurred lines between at and nt. it wasn't a chemical soup or gassing, and it is seen more than i'd think happens by "accidentally" being exposed to close contact with separated cardboard.
howmany morgan toners are there? how many cloth?
You're comparing bullion to coins again. The difference is the Silver Eagles were bought as an investment to be stored away. Some shops were sandwiching them in cardboard, where people then took them home and put them in safes and bank boxes for 20 years.
And I don't think you actually understand how the cardboard that creates this pattern was used to store the ASE's- it's not "separated". Do you think I'm suggesting people were de-plying cardboard boxes? It is and was a common shipping product. I get the skepticism, especially when I see badly AT'd ones with neon pinks and greens (like the ones not far back in this thread), but I don't think there is any more line blurring happening with these than with any other coin/bullion stored in or around cardboard or paper products. If people are trying to make these now, that is their own prerogative, but there are still natural ones being found.
@chromaticcoins
You have 1000 listings on Ebay.
Seems like you find them all.
All toned.
Most are not bullion.
What is your secret?
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
All straight graded…
He specializes in toners so that is what he looks for and buys. He has outbid me a few times on raw toners from eBay that later straight graded at PCGS. There is nothing nefarious going on as far as I can see.
I am grateful chromaticcoins has decided to join the forum and post.
He is one of the premier dealers in magnificantly toned coins.
I look forward to more of his expertise and opinions here on the boards.
peacockcoins
I think I forgot to follow through - I do not buy raw white SAEs so that might have been the issue
i have received many coins in cardboard mailers the stick to the coin and the folded over cardboard. the ridges aren't so far apart.
and as you are a specialist, i'm not surprised you have thousands of toners.
he specializes in toners
Yes that was my point. They are all straight graded…
Here's one from another dealer so they are sold by others as well.
Working full time as a PCGS authorized coin dealer.
@chromaticcoins
Thanks for the background info and my apologies.
I always bypassed your coins because they looked impossibly gorgeous.
Glad to learn you are the market maker in these coins, and not something else.
Please share more on toning and identifying AT vs NT. It would be very educational
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
No apology necessary, I understand the skepticism. Especially when I myself see how flooded the market is with AT coins. This is how I make my living, so the scam artists who are generating the distrust are very much my enemy as well. I'm happy to share what I can when I can, but with the exception of buying coins in original mint sets, ends of rolls, complete albums, etc- it's all an educated guessing game. I'm sourcing raw coins and using PCGS to authenticate, so my expertise is more in what is "market acceptable" toning as opposed to NT. Most of the time, those are one in the same, but we've all seen some bad calls, which certainly doesn't help ease people's skepticism either.
@chromaticcoins , what happened to @chromatic_coins ? You were both active from January 23, 2019 to March 20, 2019.
Cheers, and God Bless, CRHer700
Do unto others what you expect to be done to you.
I honestly can't quite tell you- they are both me. I'm assuming the earlier account is with a different email and I just neglected to remember the account info or password. If I delete that account will it remove any comments I left under the account? I'll probably just leave it active if so.