I decided to buy the new liberty when the price dropped by $100 last week. Upon receipt, I actually like the coin a lot better in person. However, like so many posters here my coin seems to have rim issues--though tiny. I don't see any issues with the other design elements of the coin. Do you think this coin would at least get a 69? I'm on the fence about returning or exchanging it.
The rim has a ridge in the photo below. The spots near the A seem to be on the plastic:
Here the coin seems to have either a very tiny dent or maybe some debris sticking there. I haven't opened the capsule.
When viewed without magnification, the coin looks great
Let me know your thoughts and whether you'd keep it
This is your call, I don’t know about the grading decision. But. I’ve seen 70s that have the rim issues and I personally would not tolerate the deformity on an expensive gold coin.
I sent my rim damaged coin back to the Mint and didn’t wanna play the lottery again.
I ordered mine a week after they went on sale and kept it unopened until last Wednesday. The nervous Nellie in me needed to take a look. The coin is beautiful. My only disappointment was that it looked lost when I opened the display case. You could fit three of them in there. Then the price went down $100 after I opened it.
The Philadelphia Mint: making coins since 1792. We make money by making money. Now in our 225th year thanks to no competition.
The raised rim is called a fin. The finned rim is a thin flange that extends vertically from the rim/edge junction of a coin struck within the collar. It is caused by excessive striking pressure or a localized increase in striking pressure caused by slight die tilt. The extra pressure causes coin metal to squeeze into the narrow gap between die neck and collar.
Finning is fairly common and should not be of much concern, unless it is excessive. In your photo it is mostly to one side so the coin was slightly tilted when struck.
The raised rim is called a fin. The finned rim is a thin flange that extends vertically from the rim/edge junction of a coin struck within the collar. It is caused by excessive striking pressure or a localized increase in striking pressure caused by slight die tilt. The extra pressure causes coin metal to squeeze into the narrow gap between die neck and collar.
Finning is fairly common and should not be of much concern, unless it is excessive. In your photo it is mostly to one side so the coin was slightly tilted when struck.
Thanks for the info about the fin--it's good to know what causes that effect. I'm leaning toward keeping this coin as I do enjoy it and the price may go up soon anyway. I don't intend to send it in to be graded but also didn't want to keep an unusually defective coin. Sounds like if I tried to exchange it I might end up with one with more flaws.
Thanks to everyone else who replied as well. I appreciate your opinions
If you want to see a PR69 here is one of mine
I almost sent it back due to the rim but was trying to be optimistic. Not real sure of the speck in the field as I did not notice it when I sent it in. The TrueView makes it look even worse. The other one I received was a 70.
@Goldminers said:
If you want to see a PR69 here is one of mine
I almost sent it back due to the rim but was trying to be optimistic. Not real sure of the speck in the field as I did not notice it when I sent it in. The TrueView makes it look even worse. The other one I received was a 70.
The weakness of that rim makes it almost look like a clipped planchet. Probably the most extreme example I’ve seen so far.
@Onastone said:
Funny how just as it went dark, the price hiked!
Actually the coin went unavailable several hours before the price increase. I think the prospective buyer(s) knew the price change was coming, and decided to pull the trigger. The surprising thing to me is when it went down to $2715-$2765 the other week, it didn’t go unavailable. I thought that price drop would have done the trick.
@Onastone said:
Funny how just as it went dark, the price hiked!
Actually the coin went unavailable several hours before the price increase. I think the prospective buyer(s) knew the price change was coming, and decided to pull the trigger. The surprising thing to me is when it went down to $2715-$2765 the other week, it didn’t go unavailable. I thought that price drop would have done the trick.
At the time when the price decreased, the gold price had been on its way down and many were talking about gold going lower so maybe people thought they could get it even cheaper. I was on the fence with this coin but that temporary price drop tempted me and I bought one.
@goldbully your shopping bag checks are so funny!! $49,555.00 No prob! LOL...... What's the highest amount you've ever had in one bag? Is there a limit??
@Onastone said: @goldbully your shopping bag checks are so funny!! $49,555.00 No prob! LOL...... What's the highest amount you've ever had in one bag? Is there a limit??
I am pretty sure 99 units is the limit you can have in a cart. That said, checking out will certainly be a problem if you are trying to buy 99 $3,000 gold coins because there has to be a limit on credit card transactions! Although, I guess, if you have an Amex Black card and they will authorize a $300,000 purchase, the Mint might not block it.
My speculation is that I think the fact that these coins are nearly $3K now is slowing sales -- but it will happen. Also, these products appeal to a relatively tiny market and that market demands perfection. I think the perception now is that these coins are not newly minted but imperfect returns. The mint could benefit from more transparency about how returns are handled and evaluated for resale.
Could it also be the case that the mint is making these coins in stages and didn't mint them all at once?
I agree.
I suspect that with the rim damage dealers and others may be reluctant to take on too much.
In experiencing the same distracting rimmage with the MS70 Palladium eagle, I was able to get a replacement from a large dealer, which is a lot more reliable, in avoiding the same problem.
That ended my responsibility about wondering whether or not someone else was going to get my returned coin.
And that was an $1100 coin, not a $3000 coin!
My speculation is that I think the fact that these coins are nearly $3K now is slowing sales -- but it will happen. Also, these products appeal to a relatively tiny market and that market demands perfection. I think the perception now is that these coins are not newly minted but imperfect returns. The mint could benefit from more transparency about how returns are handled and evaluated for resale.
Could it also be the case that the mint is making these coins in stages and didn't mint them all at once?
Nope. They're all made. The Mint is not a micro manufacturer, minting coins in batches of dozens, like Dan Carr.
64 coins likely represents returns, not a second run. And, they will either sell out or eventually be pulled. For all intents and purposes, it's already a sell out.
The Mint is plenty transparent about how returns are handled. Product with obvious damage is destroyed. Product with minor imperfections is returned to inventory, since perfection is not part of the product description for any mass produced manufactured item, notwithstanding the expectations of some on this board, or the fact that the Mint indulges them with return privileges. A coin with a rim ding that a TPG would grade a 69 or 70 is not a defective product that should not be offered for resale.
Coins with so-called rim damage are still grading 70, which is all a lot of people care about. Everyone in the market does not care about absolute perfection. Otherwise, the Mint would be sitting on 5,000 returns.
‘’Coins with so-called rim damage are still grading 70, which is all a lot of people care about. Everyone in the market does not care about absolute perfection. Otherwise, the Mint would be sitting on 5,000 returns.’’
This.
The future value of this coin will depend far less on whether anyone gives a darn on how their rim looks on their “perfect” graded coin as compared to whether the US Mint later destroys much of the value of this coin by producing future examples in this series with mintages of just 10,000 or even 7,500. This is all that matters IMHO.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
‘’Coins with so-called rim damage are still grading 70, which is all a lot of people care about. Everyone in the market does not care about absolute perfection. Otherwise, the Mint would be sitting on 5,000 returns.’’
This.
The future value of this coin will depend far less on whether anyone gives a darn on how their rim looks on their “perfect” graded coin as compared to whether the US Mint later destroys much of the value of this coin by producing future examples in this series with mintages of just 10,000 or even 7,500. This is all that matters IMHO.
Wondercoin
I know that a low mintage doesn't guarantee a coin will be rare and desired in the future, but how does releasing a few coins in a series with a low mintage destroy future resale value? Is it because there would not longer be a clear "key coin"?
I know that a low mintage doesn't guarantee a coin will be rare and desired in the future, but how does releasing a few coins in a series with a low mintage destroy future resale value? Is it because there would not longer be a clear "key coin"?
Numis metal -welcome to the boards. Your question needs to be reworded to the situation I presented; namely…
How does releasing a few coins in a series with the current record low mintages for that particular series destroy future resale value for the previously released coins in the series that once enjoyed the lowest mintages? Agree this was at the heart of your question ?
If so, look no further than this very series! The previous low mintage 2015 and 2017 examples got destroyed by the 2021 especially (and now the 2023 as well). Their values over gold spot have plummeted to all time lows. Right now - about 10% over spot (after 8 long years in the case of the 2015) and about $600/coin LOWER than coins in the series produced literally a few months ago! Yes?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
@wondercoin said:
I know that a low mintage doesn't guarantee a coin will be rare and desired in the future, but how does releasing a few coins in a series with a low mintage destroy future resale value? Is it because there would not longer be a clear "key coin"?
Numis metal -welcome to the boards. Your question needs to be reworded to the situation I presented; namely…
How does releasing a few coins in a series with the current record low mintages for that particular series destroy future resale value for the previously released coins in the series that once enjoyed the lowest mintages? Agree this was at the heart of your question ?
If so, look no further than this very series! The previous low mintage 2015 and 2017 examples got destroyed by the 2021 especially (and now the 2023 as well). Their values over gold spot have plummeted to all time lows. Right now - about 10% over spot (after 8 long years in the case of the 2015) and about $600/coin LOWER than coins in the series produced literally a few months ago! Yes?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
This is likely true. But isn't the bigger problem for series like this that few people collect the series? There's too much speculation over the future value of the coin. To me, that implies that a lot of these buyers aren't devotees of the series. When their key coin is no longer key, the weak hands let go of the coin.
‘’To me, that implies that a lot of these buyers aren't devotees of the series. ‘’
Very true as well.
Conclusion- when one gambles on a particular coin selling by the mint raw (to begin with) for $800-$900 over spot, for a variety of reasons, one is playing a dangerous hand.
A lower mintage gives someone at least a “fighting chance” to win. The lower the mintage often can translate to the better the odds.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Comments
same ... Mint must have changed their software
Guess the Mint didn't like it when forum members were giving out their 'private' sales information before the official figures were published.
If the capsule of liberty high relief gold coin is damaged, is there any product sold by a third party that can be replaced?
I haven't found a capsule suitable for 3.128 mm thickness.
The U.S. Mint does not sell spare capsules.
perhaps someone here is having some graded and has extras
try
https://forums.collectors.com/categories/buy-sell-trade-u-s-coins
I decided to buy the new liberty when the price dropped by $100 last week. Upon receipt, I actually like the coin a lot better in person. However, like so many posters here my coin seems to have rim issues--though tiny. I don't see any issues with the other design elements of the coin. Do you think this coin would at least get a 69? I'm on the fence about returning or exchanging it.
The rim has a ridge in the photo below. The spots near the A seem to be on the plastic:
Here the coin seems to have either a very tiny dent or maybe some debris sticking there. I haven't opened the capsule.
When viewed without magnification, the coin looks great
Let me know your thoughts and whether you'd keep it
Keep it. Your rim is much better than mine. My rim is shiny above "States Of." I posted pics earlier in the thread as did many others.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
This is your call, I don’t know about the grading decision. But. I’ve seen 70s that have the rim issues and I personally would not tolerate the deformity on an expensive gold coin.
I sent my rim damaged coin back to the Mint and didn’t wanna play the lottery again.
I ordered mine a week after they went on sale and kept it unopened until last Wednesday. The nervous Nellie in me needed to take a look. The coin is beautiful. My only disappointment was that it looked lost when I opened the display case. You could fit three of them in there. Then the price went down $100 after I opened it.
Look on ebay. They are always selling empty packaging
The raised rim is called a fin. The finned rim is a thin flange that extends vertically from the rim/edge junction of a coin struck within the collar. It is caused by excessive striking pressure or a localized increase in striking pressure caused by slight die tilt. The extra pressure causes coin metal to squeeze into the narrow gap between die neck and collar.
Finning is fairly common and should not be of much concern, unless it is excessive. In your photo it is mostly to one side so the coin was slightly tilted when struck.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Thanks for the info about the fin--it's good to know what causes that effect. I'm leaning toward keeping this coin as I do enjoy it and the price may go up soon anyway. I don't intend to send it in to be graded but also didn't want to keep an unusually defective coin. Sounds like if I tried to exchange it I might end up with one with more flaws.
Thanks to everyone else who replied as well. I appreciate your opinions
My second graded Liberty, just came back from our hosts.
If you want to see a PR69 here is one of mine
I almost sent it back due to the rim but was trying to be optimistic. Not real sure of the speck in the field as I did not notice it when I sent it in. The TrueView makes it look even worse. The other one I received was a 70.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
The weakness of that rim makes it almost look like a clipped planchet. Probably the most extreme example I’ve seen so far.
FYI..per Mint weekly stats. as of 10/15
Precious Metal Products 23DA 2023 AM LIBERTY 24K GOLD 1 OZ 11,742 10/15/2023
Well, we know there are more than 99 left.
Unavailable now
Yep, the REMIND ME sign is up. Closed for business. Come back during an early morning coffee break. Next please.....
Bout dang time!
I'm sure this is a bit of a relief for buyers of this lovely high relief gold coin.
Funny how just as it went dark, the price hiked!
Actually the coin went unavailable several hours before the price increase. I think the prospective buyer(s) knew the price change was coming, and decided to pull the trigger. The surprising thing to me is when it went down to $2715-$2765 the other week, it didn’t go unavailable. I thought that price drop would have done the trick.
1 available this am.....and gone.
At the time when the price decreased, the gold price had been on its way down and many were talking about gold going lower so maybe people thought they could get it even cheaper. I was on the fence with this coin but that temporary price drop tempted me and I bought one.
It's up and available this morning...plenty of time to buy...could be your last chance!
One in stock.....and I bet it is a return.
Just checked again at 8:08am EST....one left.
From what I’ve seen Bully, the greater amount of them are returnable.
@goldbully your shopping bag checks are so funny!! $49,555.00 No prob! LOL...... What's the highest amount you've ever had in one bag? Is there a limit??
I am pretty sure 99 units is the limit you can have in a cart. That said, checking out will certainly be a problem if you are trying to buy 99 $3,000 gold coins because there has to be a limit on credit card transactions! Although, I guess, if you have an Amex Black card and they will authorize a $300,000 purchase, the Mint might not block it.
Looks like that one coin was purchased....back to "currently unavailable."
Currently unavailable or waiting for less than stellar returns to re-sell to the public.
Not available this morning.
Could this be it for future sales by the Mint?
Stay tuned.
.
Sales # will be interesting tomorrow.
In stock again.
.
Get all you want today.
This certainly doesn't bode well for a sell out.
I wonder how many coins with edge issues have been sold and returned more than once.
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Good question Goldminers.
That’s why I didn’t go back to the Mint Well after I returned mine with rim damage.
71 in stock.
Will there ever be a sellout?
You can do the math.
My speculation is that I think the fact that these coins are nearly $3K now is slowing sales -- but it will happen. Also, these products appeal to a relatively tiny market and that market demands perfection. I think the perception now is that these coins are not newly minted but imperfect returns. The mint could benefit from more transparency about how returns are handled and evaluated for resale.
Could it also be the case that the mint is making these coins in stages and didn't mint them all at once?
I agree.
I suspect that with the rim damage dealers and others may be reluctant to take on too much.
In experiencing the same distracting rimmage with the MS70 Palladium eagle, I was able to get a replacement from a large dealer, which is a lot more reliable, in avoiding the same problem.
That ended my responsibility about wondering whether or not someone else was going to get my returned coin.
And that was an $1100 coin, not a $3000 coin!
Nope. They're all made. The Mint is not a micro manufacturer, minting coins in batches of dozens, like Dan Carr.
64 coins likely represents returns, not a second run. And, they will either sell out or eventually be pulled. For all intents and purposes, it's already a sell out.
The Mint is plenty transparent about how returns are handled. Product with obvious damage is destroyed. Product with minor imperfections is returned to inventory, since perfection is not part of the product description for any mass produced manufactured item, notwithstanding the expectations of some on this board, or the fact that the Mint indulges them with return privileges. A coin with a rim ding that a TPG would grade a 69 or 70 is not a defective product that should not be offered for resale.
Coins with so-called rim damage are still grading 70, which is all a lot of people care about. Everyone in the market does not care about absolute perfection. Otherwise, the Mint would be sitting on 5,000 returns.
‘’Coins with so-called rim damage are still grading 70, which is all a lot of people care about. Everyone in the market does not care about absolute perfection. Otherwise, the Mint would be sitting on 5,000 returns.’’
This.
The future value of this coin will depend far less on whether anyone gives a darn on how their rim looks on their “perfect” graded coin as compared to whether the US Mint later destroys much of the value of this coin by producing future examples in this series with mintages of just 10,000 or even 7,500. This is all that matters IMHO.
Wondercoin
Well, look at that.....down to 36 remaining.
Will there be more returns coming?
I know that a low mintage doesn't guarantee a coin will be rare and desired in the future, but how does releasing a few coins in a series with a low mintage destroy future resale value? Is it because there would not longer be a clear "key coin"?
I know that a low mintage doesn't guarantee a coin will be rare and desired in the future, but how does releasing a few coins in a series with a low mintage destroy future resale value? Is it because there would not longer be a clear "key coin"?
Numis metal -welcome to the boards. Your question needs to be reworded to the situation I presented; namely…
How does releasing a few coins in a series with the current record low mintages for that particular series destroy future resale value for the previously released coins in the series that once enjoyed the lowest mintages? Agree this was at the heart of your question ?
If so, look no further than this very series! The previous low mintage 2015 and 2017 examples got destroyed by the 2021 especially (and now the 2023 as well). Their values over gold spot have plummeted to all time lows. Right now - about 10% over spot (after 8 long years in the case of the 2015) and about $600/coin LOWER than coins in the series produced literally a few months ago! Yes?
Just my 2 cents.
Wondercoin
One left..........for now.
.
This is likely true. But isn't the bigger problem for series like this that few people collect the series? There's too much speculation over the future value of the coin. To me, that implies that a lot of these buyers aren't devotees of the series. When their key coin is no longer key, the weak hands let go of the coin.
‘’To me, that implies that a lot of these buyers aren't devotees of the series. ‘’
Very true as well.
Conclusion- when one gambles on a particular coin selling by the mint raw (to begin with) for $800-$900 over spot, for a variety of reasons, one is playing a dangerous hand.
A lower mintage gives someone at least a “fighting chance” to win. The lower the mintage often can translate to the better the odds.
Wondercoin