Looks like 500+ still available, I'm thinking and waiting if price moves $50 may nudge me, but I know I will probably buy two and hope for one good one If I get lucky I'll keep both
@CXD said:
With the quality issues and people returning/exchanging these coins to the US Mint .. what actually happens to these returned items? Recirc or melt? I figured someone here would know.
@Onastone said:
They do not get sent back out, they are melted.
I hope so, does it say that somewhere on the mints website.
My reason for asking is that I still have one out there in processing that I ordered on the 10th.
I agree with MtW124. Do we have an explicit statement from the mint stating so?
@ProofCollection said:
Every time I've ordered "old" (last year's coins) where there are limited quantities, they always show up with defects. Could just be coincidence, but I think these are returns.
I almost think this deserves a new thread, but since we are talking about damaged gold rims I'll share the mint's reply. Here is the transcript from a live chat:
Today
Hi. I have a question about your process of returns.
Live Chat
Chat started
Hi.
Hello, my name is Sharda, thank you for contacting the United States Mint. With whom do I have the pleasure to chat with today?
This is Bill.
I'll be more than happy to assist you with your inquiry about returns, Bill.
How may I assist you?
I'm a member of the PCGS Forums and we are discussing what happens to coins returned to the mint.
Half of us say the damaged coins are melted. The other half think the mint resells them to other customers.
What is the journey of a returned coin? Does it get re-evaluted for sale or marked for destruction?
One moment please while I find the information you are requesting. Please allow me up to two minutes to research.
Thank you so much.
Thanks for waiting.
They get evaluated for sale.
If they are damaged then they are sent back to the mint.
That is all the information I have at this time.
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?
Okay. Thank you very much.
Thank you for shopping with the United States Mint, we’re happy to assist you today and in the future. For additional information on our products please visit our website at www.catalog.usmint.gov. Should you need further assistance from the United States Mint, please feel free to contact us at 1-800-USA-MINT (872-6468). For your convenience, we are available seven days a week between the hours of 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. ET.
The operator has ended the chat. Thanks for contacting us.
Makes sense. If a coin has damage that is obvious to a layman checking returns at the warehouse, it should not be offered for resale.
OTOH, if the return is from a perfectionist returning a 69 because it is not a 70, there is nothing wrong with the product from a retailing perspective, and it would be wasteful to melt it down. In fact, if the Mint was really smart, it would start blacklisting people who return 69s, unless the products are offered by the Mint as 70s.
I would argue that the coins in the pictures don't show any marks or defects. Why wouldn't we expect the product to look like the picture?
Unfortunately they know that some of these will be gifts after the return window closes or just thrown in a safe without much scrutiny so they know they have a shot at re-selling most of the returns and people won't notice or return them again.
Because the pictures are merely representations, not the actual coins you will receive, and because it is patently unreasonable to expect absolute perfection in any mass produced product.
Would you be willing to pay a multiple of what the Mint now charges, in order for each product to be painstakingly made by hand, with anything less than perfection discarded and built into the price of the perfect specimens? If so, there would be no aftermarket, since the coins would be so expensive to begin with, and there would be no premium for perfection, since all coins would be perfect.
@hardbitten said:
It looks nicer in silver but gold is only 50% over spot vs 300% for silver, plus the 12.5k mintage vs 75k, so I got the gold yesterday.
% is one way of looking at it. Absolute dollars may be a good or better as a way to view the numismatic premium. Unless you're hoping to melt them some day...
@smartdriver said:
In order to get PCGS destination for First Day Of Issue FDOI, do I have to keep my delivery box sealed and send entire box to PCGS for grading???
PCGS will issue a FIRST STRIKE if submitted in the first 30 days. Our cutoff date for this gold Liberty is Sept. 11. If you go past that, you may send in your unopened delivery box with postmarked date as proof for a FIRST STRIKE label.
FDOI, I think, is available for bulk submissions and trade shows...and have to be submitted within the first 24 hours of release...easier to buy from 3'd party at that point.
Both of mine had some slight rounded rough edge rim issues on the reverse above "STATES OF" just as in other posts. They were not nearly as bad as some photos, but also not 100% perfect full rims either.
Since they were not too bad, I sent them both to PCGS anyway as technically they are "as struck" and the rest of the coins looked decent. Will be interesting to see the results in a month.
If I would have returned them, I suspect they would have been resold and I did not think that was the right thing to do. I am really hoping for a sellout before month end.
@smartdriver said:
In order to get PCGS destination for First Day Of Issue FDOI, do I have to keep my delivery box sealed and send entire box to PCGS for grading???
@smartdriver said:
In order to get PCGS destination for First Day Of Issue FDOI, do I have to keep my delivery box sealed and send entire box to PCGS for grading???
PCGS will issue a FIRST STRIKE if submitted in the first 30 days. Our cutoff date for this gold Liberty is Sept. 11. If you go past that, you may send in your unopened delivery box with postmarked date as proof for a FIRST STRIKE label.
FDOI, I think, is available for bulk submissions and trade shows...and have to be submitted within the first 24 hours of release...easier to buy from 3'd party at that point.
@smartdriver said:
In order to get PCGS destination for First Day Of Issue FDOI, do I have to keep my delivery box sealed and send entire box to PCGS for grading???
You can't get FDOI
FDOI rules from a recent post by Heather Boyd, PCGS Senior Director of Marketing.
Edited to add the following screenshot from the link:
% is one way of looking at it. Absolute dollars may be a good or better as a way to view the numismatic premium. Unless you're hoping to melt them some day...
melt... on a coin forum? party foul.
Consider the 2021, gold is sold out at Mint, $5149 at a major retailer. American Liberty 2022 Silver Medal is still available at the mint for $82.
If I would have returned them, I suspect they would have been resold and I did not think that was the right thing to do. I am really hoping for a sellout before month end.
Doesn't look like that is going to happen.
As of now per the Mint Website, 1473 coins still remain, not a good sign.
I hear that checking inventory remaining by Page Source data is not the same data as it once was.....so maybe the sellout is coming soon.
Well it won’t be the first time I bought thinking it was going to be a sellout that didn’t happen. I hope time will change that as I think this coin is terrific. I’m all in for the long haul with 2
It wouldn't surprise me if a week from now if there are 3000 available. Seen it happen with a lot of issues in the last year. Sales numbers don't make sense a lot of times in the last year.
@MtW124 said:
Today I finally received a tracking number for the First one that I ordered on the 10th. My second order from the 16th arrived on Monday.
That is a problem! It should be first in first out!
Pat Vetter,Mercury Dime registry set,1938 Proof set registry,Pat & BJ Coins:724-325-7211
@MtW124 said:
Today I finally received a tracking number for the First one that I ordered on the 10th. My second order from the 16th arrived on Monday.
That is a problem! It should be first in first out!
I am NOT saying that the Mint is perfect.
However, in this case, @MtW124 reported that there was a "mistake" made when the first order was placed, which likely impacted its processing.
@zhangbingnpu said:
Hi, got my gold coin, but found something not happy.
Are those problems will cause 69?? Thanks.!
Dose anyone can help? Thanks
Technically any flaw would make it a 69. The real question is if the graders would see it or if they have some tolerance for minute imperfections. I have some 69's that I cannot tell why they are 69 so I would assume that flaws like you have would be enough to make it 69, but there's a chance you could get lucky.
Technically any flaw would make it a 69. The real question is if the graders would see it or if they have some tolerance for minute imperfections. I have some 69's that I cannot tell why they are 69 so I would assume that flaws like you have would be enough to make it 69, but there's a chance you could get lucky.
I agree that this would rule out a 70 but if you look at some of the 2023 Morgan and Peace dollars that are getting that grade, I guess anything is possible.
If I saw this slabbed 70 at a show and if it were priced comparably to similar coins without the defect I would not buy it.
@zhangbingnpu said:
Hi, got my gold coin, but found something not happy.
Are those problems will cause 69?? Thanks.!
Dose anyone can help? Thanks
Technically any flaw would make it a 69. The real question is if the graders would see it or if they have some tolerance for minute imperfections. I have some 69's that I cannot tell why they are 69 so I would assume that flaws like you have would be enough to make it 69, but there's a chance you could get lucky.
Thanks for your help！
Agree, I am not expert but can easily find it. So I don't think they will miss it. A PCGS expert said if it can be find by naked eye, then it will undoubtedly been given 69, if nothing found by eye, They'll check again with a 5x magnifying glass. so I don't think I'm that lucky。 LOL
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
BST transactions Wondercoin, MCM, levinll, Zrlevin and ajaan. Been buying and selling coins on E-Bay since 2002 as Monk2580
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
I'm keeping mine despite its flaws on the rim. But the flaw on yours....I would return it. That is pretty noticeable.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
If the Mint can manufacture Proof and Unc Morgan and Peace $1's with 70 almost assured, they certainly should have better QC on such an amazingly expensive gold coin.
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
The mint promises "satisfaction guaranteed." You are not satisfied. And I don't think you are being unreasonable.
Well I opened my first box and here it is. Big Knick on the reverse rim above the T in STATES. What do you think?
Edit: those spots by the date are shadows. I don’t see them when viewing under the scope.
@MtW124 said:
Well I opened my first box and here it is. Big Knick on the reverse rim above the T in STATES. What do you think?
Edit: those spots by the date are shadows. I don’t see them when viewing under the scope.
Are you satisfied? If not you should return it. Note there is a pretty short return window, I'm not sure how long you waited to open it. Of course a replacement might not be any better. PR70's are around $3500 last I checked. You'll have to weigh your options.
@MtW124 said:
Well I opened my first box and here it is. Big Knick on the reverse rim above the T in STATES. What do you think?
Edit: those spots by the date are shadows. I don’t see them when viewing under the scope.
Are you satisfied? If not you should return it. Note there is a pretty short return window, I'm not sure how long you waited to open it. Of course a replacement might not be any better. PR70's are around $3500 last I checked. You'll have to weigh your options.
Is this another nick?
I would return it if there’s something that bothers you - you will never unsee a flaw once seen. Your risk is that if the Mint determines in its sole discretion that you are abusing returns, you may be banned from future purchases. Probably a risk worth taking given the price of this coin, but your mileage may vary.
@ProofCollection@Project Numismatics
Well the rim damage is from the first T in states to the O in of along with the rim Knick . As far as the Knick lower that you point out, I can live with that. I guess Im not as much of a perfectionist as some. I’m going to keep it. Opening my second one now. Photoghragh to come. Maybe this one will be better. What a Design though.
@MtW124 said:
Well I opened my first box and here it is. Big Knick on the reverse rim above the T in STATES. What do you think?
Edit: those spots by the date are shadows. I don’t see them when viewing under the scope.
Are you satisfied? If not you should return it. Note there is a pretty short return window, I'm not sure how long you waited to open it. Of course a replacement might not be any better. PR70's are around $3500 last I checked. You'll have to weigh your options.
Is this another nick?
I would return it if there’s something that bothers you - you will never unsee a flaw once seen. Your risk is that if the Mint determines in its sole discretion that you are abusing returns, you may be banned from future purchases. Probably a risk worth taking given the price of this coin, but your mileage may vary.
I wouldn't worry about being accused of abusing returns if there are legitimate defects like those mentioned here. This clause I believe is more to thwart speculation with large orders and cancelling orders after metal prices plummet after a purchase.
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
You are just asking for trouble handling that coin with those gloves.
Well same rim damage on reverse less the Knick. From the first T in states to the O in of. I’m good with both of them. They are terrific. Edit: oops wrong coin. I will get the right one and post it. Sorry
I am trying to understand how this rim issue is caused. It is in the same position on all that have posted, so it has me believing the die itself is flawed or the hub it was based on, and all struck with it are similar. If that is the case the coins are "as struck" and capable of being graded 70's, in spite of the rim roughness irregularity if the rest of the coin is excellent.
Both of mine had this same rim edge effect and others have also posted similar issues so this seems to be quite common.
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
You are just asking for trouble handling that coin with those gloves.
+1 - Any particles of cotton that those gloves shed risks creating spots on the coin.
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
You are just asking for trouble handling that coin with those gloves.
+1 - Any particles of cotton that those gloves shed risks creating spots on the coin.
Do you not recommend gloves? Or is there a certain brand I should use instead? I thought it was better handling coins with gloves rather than without?
BST transactions Wondercoin, MCM, levinll, Zrlevin and ajaan. Been buying and selling coins on E-Bay since 2002 as Monk2580
@Burnie said:
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
You are just asking for trouble handling that coin with those gloves.
+1 - Any particles of cotton that those gloves shed risks creating spots on the coin.
Do you not recommend gloves? Or is there a certain brand I should use instead? I thought it was better handling coins with gloves rather than without?
I would just be cautious with any gloves that could shed lint. Maybe consider lint free cotton or powder-free latex.
To be blunt though, the graders at the TPGs don't use gloves and I've never seen a dealer on the bourse using gloves. But I understand the urge here given the delicate proof surface.
the rim is simply not fully struck up. i haven't, but look to the design on both sides and if there is a lot of design relief near the rim then there you go. one indication it is not fully struck up is the placement of the issue over many coins and another is that the area noted appears shiny like the fields as a highly polished planchet would be.
pcgs will grade these as struck in a similar way that not all cons are FBL, FS, FB, FH, etc.
To be honest, I'd never used gloves until this month. I've always handled coins with my bare hands.
It was more difficult placing coins in flips with gloves on! 😄 I guess I'll go back to being gloveless. I appreciate the advice.
BST transactions Wondercoin, MCM, levinll, Zrlevin and ajaan. Been buying and selling coins on E-Bay since 2002 as Monk2580
Comments
Looks like 500+ still available, I'm thinking and waiting if price moves $50 may nudge me, but I know I will probably buy two and hope for one good one
If I get lucky I'll keep both 
Today I finally received a tracking number for the First one that I ordered on the 10th. My second order from the 16th arrived on Monday.
Because the pictures are merely representations, not the actual coins you will receive, and because it is patently unreasonable to expect absolute perfection in any mass produced product.
Would you be willing to pay a multiple of what the Mint now charges, in order for each product to be painstakingly made by hand, with anything less than perfection discarded and built into the price of the perfect specimens? If so, there would be no aftermarket, since the coins would be so expensive to begin with, and there would be no premium for perfection, since all coins would be perfect.
w/e 08/20/2023 mint sales...
2023 AM LIBERTY 24K GOLD 1 OZ 11,338 +2,496
% is one way of looking at it. Absolute dollars may be a good or better as a way to view the numismatic premium. Unless you're hoping to melt them some day...
In order to get PCGS destination for First Day Of Issue FDOI, do I have to keep my delivery box sealed and send entire box to PCGS for grading???
PCGS will issue a FIRST STRIKE if submitted in the first 30 days. Our cutoff date for this gold Liberty is Sept. 11. If you go past that, you may send in your unopened delivery box with postmarked date as proof for a FIRST STRIKE label.
FDOI, I think, is available for bulk submissions and trade shows...and have to be submitted within the first 24 hours of release...easier to buy from 3'd party at that point.
Both of mine had some slight rounded rough edge rim issues on the reverse above "STATES OF" just as in other posts. They were not nearly as bad as some photos, but also not 100% perfect full rims either.
Since they were not too bad, I sent them both to PCGS anyway as technically they are "as struck" and the rest of the coins looked decent. Will be interesting to see the results in a month.
If I would have returned them, I suspect they would have been resold and I did not think that was the right thing to do. I am really hoping for a sellout before month end.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
You can't get FDOI
>
FDOI rules from a recent post by Heather Boyd, PCGS Senior Director of Marketing.
Edited to add the following screenshot from the link:
melt... on a coin forum? party foul.
Consider the 2021, gold is sold out at Mint, $5149 at a major retailer. American Liberty 2022 Silver Medal is still available at the mint for $82.
Doesn't look like that is going to happen.
As of now per the Mint Website, 1473 coins still remain, not a good sign.
I hear that checking inventory remaining by Page Source data is not the same data as it once was.....so maybe the sellout is coming soon.
Good luck to all.
Well it won’t be the first time I bought thinking it was going to be a sellout that didn’t happen. I hope time will change that as I think this coin is terrific. I’m all in for the long haul with 2
It wouldn't surprise me if a week from now if there are 3000 available. Seen it happen with a lot of issues in the last year. Sales numbers don't make sense a lot of times in the last year.
Hi, got my gold coin, but found something not happy.
Are those problems will cause 69?? Thanks.
Coins remaining = 1442
That is a problem! It should be first in first out!
I am NOT saying that the Mint is perfect.
However, in this case, @MtW124 reported that there was a "mistake" made when the first order was placed, which likely impacted its processing.
Ordered one on the 16th, shipped on the 22nd, due to arrive tomorrow.
Mine was ordered on the 10th and may be delivered tomorrow.
Dose anyone can help? Thanks
Technically any flaw would make it a 69. The real question is if the graders would see it or if they have some tolerance for minute imperfections. I have some 69's that I cannot tell why they are 69 so I would assume that flaws like you have would be enough to make it 69, but there's a chance you could get lucky.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I agree that this would rule out a 70 but if you look at some of the 2023 Morgan and Peace dollars that are getting that grade, I guess anything is possible.
If I saw this slabbed 70 at a show and if it were priced comparably to similar coins without the defect I would not buy it.
Thanks for your help！
Agree, I am not expert but can easily find it. So I don't think they will miss it. A PCGS expert said if it can be find by naked eye, then it will undoubtedly been given 69, if nothing found by eye, They'll check again with a 5x magnifying glass. so I don't think I'm that lucky。 LOL
Just received my replacement...the rim on this one is perfect...but look by the B and E...
If I spend this kind of money I expect better. I feel guilty about returning another. Should I just suck it up and keep it or return it?
I'm keeping mine despite its flaws on the rim. But the flaw on yours....I would return it. That is pretty noticeable.
Throw a coin enough times, and suppose one day it lands on its edge.
If the Mint can manufacture Proof and Unc Morgan and Peace $1's with 70 almost assured, they certainly should have better QC on such an amazingly expensive gold coin.
The mint promises "satisfaction guaranteed." You are not satisfied. And I don't think you are being unreasonable.
http://ProofCollection.Net
I guess I should open mine then. Wasn’t going to. But now I think I will.
Well I opened my first box and here it is. Big Knick on the reverse rim above the T in STATES. What do you think?
Edit: those spots by the date are shadows. I don’t see them when viewing under the scope.
Are you satisfied? If not you should return it. Note there is a pretty short return window, I'm not sure how long you waited to open it. Of course a replacement might not be any better. PR70's are around $3500 last I checked. You'll have to weigh your options.
Is this another nick?
http://ProofCollection.Net
I would return it if there’s something that bothers you - you will never unsee a flaw once seen. Your risk is that if the Mint determines in its sole discretion that you are abusing returns, you may be banned from future purchases. Probably a risk worth taking given the price of this coin, but your mileage may vary.
@ProofCollection @Project Numismatics
Well the rim damage is from the first T in states to the O in of along with the rim Knick . As far as the Knick lower that you point out, I can live with that. I guess Im not as much of a perfectionist as some. I’m going to keep it. Opening my second one now. Photoghragh to come. Maybe this one will be better. What a Design though.
I wouldn't worry about being accused of abusing returns if there are legitimate defects like those mentioned here. This clause I believe is more to thwart speculation with large orders and cancelling orders after metal prices plummet after a purchase.
http://ProofCollection.Net
You are just asking for trouble handling that coin with those gloves.
Well same rim damage on reverse less the Knick. From the first T in states to the O in of. I’m good with both of them. They are terrific. Edit: oops wrong coin. I will get the right one and post it. Sorry
Here it is,
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
I'm amazed at all the defects forum members are seeing on these beauties.
Returns starting to come in.
1491 coins remaining.
I am trying to understand how this rim issue is caused. It is in the same position on all that have posted, so it has me believing the die itself is flawed or the hub it was based on, and all struck with it are similar. If that is the case the coins are "as struck" and capable of being graded 70's, in spite of the rim roughness irregularity if the rest of the coin is excellent.
Both of mine had this same rim edge effect and others have also posted similar issues so this seems to be quite common.
My US Mint Commemorative Medal Set
+1 - Any particles of cotton that those gloves shed risks creating spots on the coin.
Do you not recommend gloves? Or is there a certain brand I should use instead? I thought it was better handling coins with gloves rather than without?
@Burnie @Project Numismatics
Maybe invest in something like this to blow off any particles?
I would just be cautious with any gloves that could shed lint. Maybe consider lint free cotton or powder-free latex.
To be blunt though, the graders at the TPGs don't use gloves and I've never seen a dealer on the bourse using gloves. But I understand the urge here given the delicate proof surface.
the rim is simply not fully struck up. i haven't, but look to the design on both sides and if there is a lot of design relief near the rim then there you go. one indication it is not fully struck up is the placement of the issue over many coins and another is that the area noted appears shiny like the fields as a highly polished planchet would be.
pcgs will grade these as struck in a similar way that not all cons are FBL, FS, FB, FH, etc.
cotton is not soft as you'd think. on 24k proof gold, it may scratch if not handled properly.
never, ever use a can duster on a coin. it has chemical propellants and the force of the air might disturb 24k metal
This works great without the chemicals in canned air.
It will pay for itself in no time.
I use mine almost daily.....so many uses.
Amazon Link
To be honest, I'd never used gloves until this month. I've always handled coins with my bare hands.
It was more difficult placing coins in flips with gloves on! 😄 I guess I'll go back to being gloveless. I appreciate the advice.
Does my gold coin look good to you?
Sorry about the photos, I'm not a professional.