There were two senior nominees a year from 2004-2014 until the five-year alternating process began in 2015. So hopefully that means they “go back” to two vice one? Fingers crossed. The backlog still exists, and it’d get worse with only one a year.
@DEFPOTEC said:
There were two senior nominees a year from 2004-2014 until the five-year alternating process began in 2015. So hopefully that means they “go back” to two vice one? Fingers crossed. The backlog still exists, and it’d get worse with only one a year.
There was only one a year from 1972-2003.
I think they will move back to one per year, or possibly one senior every other year. I get the feeling that the committee believes the backlog no longer exists. There also aren't a ton of modern candidates that will become strong Senior candidates over the next 5-10 years either..So the senior pool isn't going to grow much. These full 5 person modern classes will have the modern "backlog" cleaned out by 2022-2023?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Next 10 years of "possible" additions to the Senior pool...Likely at least 2 of these (Boselli and Butler) will make it in as modern candidates...Do any of these guys really create a worse backlong in the Senior Pool?
Clay Matthews 2021
Sam Mills 2022
Steve Tasker 2022
Albert Lewis 2023
Leslie O'Neal 2024
Tony Boselli 2026
LeRoy Butler 2026
Ricky Watters 2026
Steve Wiesniewski 2026
Darren Woodson 2029
If they move to one per year, would cover the other centennial senior finalists who didn't get elected in 2020. I mean here are the next 10 senior nominees... Would any of the above (aside from Boselli or Butler) slot into to this list to create a backlog? Just giving the big picture view on why they are likely to reduce to 1 per year.
Roger Craig
Cliff Branch
Randy Gradishar
Drew Pearson
LaVern Dilweg
Ox Emerson
Cecil Isbell
Verne Lewellen
Tommy Nobis
Al Wistert
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I’d like to see them go back to the alternating process. I too believe there is still a backlog of deserving candidates. There were some that didn’t make the centennial finalist that at least deserve to be in the discussion. Even if they nominated 2 players as senior candidates, they can still be voted down like Karras or Goldberg have been in the past. I wouldn’t have any issues with that. There are certain positions that I’d like to see represented better in the Hall(centers, DT). Not the flashiest positions but just as important as almost any other position.
Which list have we used for the all decade teams in the past? I'll request it, but want to be consistent in which one we use. IS it from the Pro Football HOF?
@BillsGridironGreats said:
Which list have we used for the all decade teams in the past? I'll request it, but want to be consistent in which one we use. IS it from the Pro Football HOF?
Correct...The one quoted when HOF voters call guys All -Decade...For whatever reason the HOF has not even requested a vote for 2010s All-Decade team, at least as of last week...
1960s set being the exception, as we used i believe Pro Football Writers of America All-Decade team that included AFL and NFL..This was back when we were trying to prevent set overload that you see on there now..lol
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I recalled Kurt Warner's rookie originally being Crown Royal. Is that correct or am I mistaken?
And if anyone could clear this up for me, we have always gone with SP as the key rookie from 1993 until UD lost their license unless the SP rookie was an auto, jersey, or numbered less than /999.
Thanks
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
The big take away is the unanimous choices. I liked it when they did 1st and 2nd team All-Decade Teams. Anyone surprised with any of the selections or snubs?
Looks like Bobby Wagner is putting together a pretty impressive resume. What 2012 RC of his would be the choice? The Elite is #d to 999. Bowman Sterling, I guess, would be the other choice. I'm really not very well versed in these moderns if there is no Topps Chrome choice.
@Greedoguy said:
Looks like Bobby Wagner is putting together a pretty impressive resume. What 2012 RC of his would be the choice? The Elite is #d to 999. Bowman Sterling, I guess, would be the other choice. I'm really not very well versed in these moderns if there is no Topps Chrome choice.
I think Prizm replaces Topps Chrome as the usual choice and when Wagner was brought up in this thread a couple months ago I believe the Prizm was the final verdict.
@LarkinCollector said:
Rodgers over Brees?
Antonio Brown being selected for anything but trial dates
AP unanimous
For reasons unknown to me, Drew Brees has always been considered a notch below contemporaries like Manning, Brady and Rodgers. It's always driven me crazy. On the flip side, as good as he is, Aaron Rodgers is without question overrated. Brees definitely deserved this recognition over Rodgers.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
@Greedoguy said:
Looks like Bobby Wagner is putting together a pretty impressive resume. What 2012 RC of his would be the choice? The Elite is #d to 999. Bowman Sterling, I guess, would be the other choice. I'm really not very well versed in these moderns if there is no Topps Chrome choice.
I think Prizm replaces Topps Chrome as the usual choice and when Wagner was brought up in this thread a couple months ago I believe the Prizm was the final verdict.
Prizm is the first choice with Chrome out of the picture but 2015 is tricky for a few players who were not in Chrome but in Prizm. Previously Elite has been used when Chrome was not an option, followed by Rookie and Stars.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
@shawther said:
I think most people liked the Crown Royale. It’d be nice to figure out the card for the registry. Anyone think Staley or Weddle have a real shot?
I am not sure the majority really prefer Crown Royale. The Cowboys All Pro and Pro Bowl set recently had a Crown Royale switched to Certified based on poll results and they said the card selected would be his key rookie going forward.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
@LarkinCollector said:
Rodgers over Brees?
Antonio Brown being selected for anything but trial dates
AP unanimous
For reasons unknown to me, Drew Brees has always been considered a notch below contemporaries like Manning, Brady and Rodgers. It's always driven me crazy. On the flip side, as good as he is, Aaron Rodgers is without question overrated. Brees definitely deserved this recognition over Rodgers.
Respectfully disagree. I definitely agree Brees is higher in the all time rankings, however that’s not what the all decade team is about. Rodgers won more games than Brees in the decade and Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, which Brees did not. To be honest, I haven’t looked at the yards and TDs, but at first glance I think Rodgers deserves the nod.
@Greedoguy said:
I’m sure all have seen them, but here they are side by side. I can’t imagine the price differential is very much:
Question is....if he retires tomorrow (ala Patrick Willis), does his current resume withstand the scrutiny? If so, what would be this groups choice?
I would say yes to the HOF (combination of Accolades and and a Super Bowl ring) and either Elite or Prizm.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
I would lean toward the Elite Wagner because it’s numbered. I think we definitely need a poll. It could be an informal one between us.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
I would probably side with Elite since it has been used in multiple sets as the third option when SP and Chrome were not an option. Just my opinion but I think Prizm is a good option for rookies 2012-2015 when Chrome, Elite, or Rookie & Stars are not an option.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
The Crown Royale should not even be an option. Wagner's Crown Royale hobby base RC is serial numbered to 399, which is too rare to be chosen, and his Crown Royale retail-only base RC (the card shown above, I believe) is too esoteric.
I only participate in the autographed versions of the HOF Rookie and Future HOF Rookie registries, so I'm not sure if you all would be willing to include my vote in the poll. Those sets are meant to parallel the unsigned versions though, and whichever card is chosen here will be the same for the autographed sets.
If you're willing to accept my vote I prefer the Prizm over the Elite. As BillsGridironGreats mentioned above, PSA has already used the Prizm in the Seahawks All Pro & Pro Bowl Leaders set, and Prizm has consistently been the choice for players in the post-Topps Chrome era like Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Zeke Elliott, Michael Thomas, Goff, et al.
I'd vote for the Elite as well, but the Prizm is already on the Seahawks ALL Pro set. So if we pick that and PSA says okay - I'll still be buying both.
@LarkinCollector said:
Rodgers over Brees?
Antonio Brown being selected for anything but trial dates
AP unanimous
For reasons unknown to me, Drew Brees has always been considered a notch below contemporaries like Manning, Brady and Rodgers. It's always driven me crazy. On the flip side, as good as he is, Aaron Rodgers is without question overrated. Brees definitely deserved this recognition over Rodgers.
Respectfully disagree. I definitely agree Brees is higher in the all time rankings, however that’s not what the all decade team is about. Rodgers won more games than Brees in the decade and Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, which Brees did not. To be honest, I haven’t looked at the yards and TDs, but at first glance I think Rodgers deserves the nod.
Wins are a team accomplishment. For the decade 2010-2019, here's the comparison
All Pro selections
Brees 10
Rodgers 7 (2 First Team)
Name Comp Att Comp% Yds TD
Brees 4173 5997 69.6 46770 345 (missed 7 games in the decade)
Rodgers 3187 4925 64.7 38145 305 (missed 18 games in the decade)
So nearly 1k more completions, nearly 5% better completion %, 8600+ more yards, 40 more TDs
Brady's numbers for comparison
All Pro 9 (2 First Team)
3705 5770 64.2 43737 316 (missed 4 games in the decade)
@LarkinCollector said:
Rodgers over Brees?
Antonio Brown being selected for anything but trial dates
AP unanimous
For reasons unknown to me, Drew Brees has always been considered a notch below contemporaries like Manning, Brady and Rodgers. It's always driven me crazy. On the flip side, as good as he is, Aaron Rodgers is without question overrated. Brees definitely deserved this recognition over Rodgers.
Respectfully disagree. I definitely agree Brees is higher in the all time rankings, however that’s not what the all decade team is about. Rodgers won more games than Brees in the decade and Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, which Brees did not. To be honest, I haven’t looked at the yards and TDs, but at first glance I think Rodgers deserves the nod.
Wins are a team accomplishment. For the decade 2010-2019, here's the comparison
All Pro selections
Brees 10
Rodgers 7 (2 First Team)
Name Comp Att Comp% Yds TD
Brees 4173 5997 69.6 46770 345 (missed 7 games in the decade)
Rodgers 3187 4925 64.7 38145 305 (missed 18 games in the decade)
So nearly 1k more completions, nearly 5% better completion %, 8600+ more yards, 40 more TDs
Brady's numbers for comparison
All Pro 9 (2 First Team)
3705 5770 64.2 43737 316 (missed 4 games in the decade)
Exactly! For good measure, you can throw in that Rodgers is a total a hole and Brees is not.
"My father would womanize, he would drink. He would make outrageous claims like he invented the question mark. Sometimes he would accuse chestnuts of being lazy. The sort of general malaise that only the genius possess and the insane lament. Our childhood was typical. Summers in Rangoon, luge lessons. In the spring we'd make meat helmets. When we were insolent we were placed in a burlap bag and beaten with reeds - pretty standard really."
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Tom Brady, 113
Aaron Rodgers, 93
Peyton Manning, 68.5
Lamar Jackson, 50
Cam Newton, 48
Patrick Mahomes, 41
Matt Ryan, 24
Drew Brees, 11
Carson Wentz, 2
Tony Romo, 2
Carson Palmer, 1
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@JasP24 said:
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
So Lamar Jackson’s one MVP season puts him forth on this list for votes for the decade? So yeah great measure for the all decade team qb.
I am an acknowledged Brees homer but especially with the time missed due to injury by Rodgers I would think Brees would get the nod
@JasP24 said:
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
@JasP24 said:
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
Howley has more All Pro selections than every LB on the 1960's All Decade team and did not make the team.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
All that tells me is that the voters are not doing any serious evaluation and are unable to separate team statistics from individual. Assigning W/L to QBs in football is just as stupid as assigning it to pitchers in baseball, it's a team statistic in both cases and says very little about the individual.
Just for fun, YPA, Brees 7.80, Rodgers 7.75, Brady 7.58. So to match Brees in completions & %, Rodgers would have had to complete 986 passes out of 1072 additional (a 92% clip), while upping his YPA a bit to get to the yardage total. I repeat ...
@BillsGridironGreats said:
The 2015 Topps #273 for Marshal Yanda
There is a gold version #'d to 2015 and and All-Pro version of this card. Which one are you thinking?
@JasP24 said:
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
So Lamar Jackson’s one MVP season puts him forth on this list for votes for the decade? So yeah great measure for the all decade team qb.
I am an acknowledged Brees homer but especially with the time missed due to injury by Rodgers I would think Brees would get the nod
So what the vote totals can tell you is how DOMINANT the player was at their positions v. others at the same position...Lamar Jackson got 49 of the 50 QB votes in his MVP/All-Pro Year...Obviously one year isn't enough to be all-decade...If this was the best QBs of the past 20 years, then it would be Brees and Brady for sure...But from 2010-2019, Drew Brees had a total of 7 1/2 All-Pro Votes...In no way shape or form was he the best or 2nd best QB from 2010-2019..At least according to the voters, most of which are also HOF voters...
If you disagree with their votes, which I do often, then that's another issue altogether. But Brees simply wasn't considered the best or 2nd best QB over the past 10 years...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here are the TOTAL All-Pro votes for QBs over the past 20 years...2000-2019, Brees still not considered top 2. Great QB, but a notch down from the all-timers...
MVP voting from 2000-2019..
Peyton Manning 229
Tom Brady 180
Aaron Rodgers 93
Lamar Jackson 50
Cam Newton 48
Pat Mahomes 41
Kurt Warner 34
Steve McNair 27
Rich Gannon 24
Matt Ryan 24
Drew Brees 22.5 (yes...22.5 MVP votes in 20 years...Great QB, Great accumulator of numbers, not MVP level guy
or All-Decade level guy)
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Howley has more All Pro selections than every LB on the 1960's All Decade team and did not make the team.
Right, but the missing piece here is that who picked the teams? In the 1960s, only a few of the AP voters were also part of the HOF selection committee...Hell, there wasn't even a HOF until 1963...In 2020, Almost 75% of the All-Pro voters are also part of the 55 person HOF selection committee..
My point of posting and tracking the votes over the years is that its always been a pretty good way to determine who would make the All-Decade teams...And while I still dont agree with all the selections, as well as the top All-Pro vote getters were NOT selected to the All-Decade team, the percentage is very high..Close to 90%...I dont see anyone at any position who made the Decade team with as few All-Pro votes as Drew Brees had in the decade...7.5 All-Pro votes of a possible 500 at the position in the decade is way way way off...
If Brees were truly deserving of one of the top 2 spots, I would think he would have gotten more All-Pro votes over the past 10 (or 20) years...Accumulating large numbers is awesome, but it doesn't always equate to dominance..It moreso equates to staying healthy and playing a ton of games. Frank Gore a great example...How many All-Pro or MVP votes does he have? Long, excellent career, but not a dominant player in any of his seasons when compared to his peers...
Answer to the above? Frank Gore got exactly ONE All-Pro vote this decade and 14 in his entire career...Same number of votes as Alfred Morris had in his career...
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here are the TOTAL All-Pro votes for QBs over the past 20 years...2000-2019, Brees still not considered top 2. Great QB, but a notch down from the all-timers...
MVP voting from 2000-2019..
Peyton Manning 229
Tom Brady 180
Lamar Jackson 50
Cam Newton 48
Pat Mahomes 41
Matt Ryan 24
Drew Brees 22.5 (yes...22.5 MVP votes in 20 years...Great QB, Great accumulator of numbers, not MVP level guy
or All-Decade level guy)
To assess just exactly how ignorant your retort is to either not know that Brees finished 2nd in the MVP voting in 2006, 2009, 2011, and 2018 or to completely disregard it because it does not fit your narrative. If you say that Brees is not MVP level then I have a hard time believing that you have the discernment to admit that there is actually another side to the argument but your own.
I am in the Brees camp as well. The stats show that he out performed Rodgers .
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys - Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2 touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL title.
To assess just exactly how ignorant your retort is to either not know that Brees finished 2nd in the MVP voting in 2006, 2009, 2011, and 2018 or to completely disregard it because it does not fit your narrative. If you say that Brees is not MVP level then I have a hard time believing that you have the discernment to admit that there is actually another side to the argument but your own.
Well alright then...1-This wasn't my argument as I was not a voter for All-Pro, MVP or All-Decade. 2-Aaron Rodgers was FIRST in MVP voting in 2010 and 2014..Rodgers was also FIRST in All-Pro votes those years..How often for Brees?...3-Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, Brees did not...4-Aside from accumulating numbers on a pass happy offense in a pass happy Dome, Rodgers has far more accolades in the decade than Brees...And the HOF voters agree. Both will likely be first ballot HOFers, and Brees probably ends his career with much bigger numbers. But he never had dominant seasons above and beyond his peers...And because of that, IMO he's just a notch below the top guys of this era...Brady, Peyton, Rodgers..Brees would be #4 of the era on my list...And 3rd best of the decade on my list (and apparently the HOF voters lists)..
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
@dfr52 said:
I am in the Brees camp as well. The stats show that he out performed Rodgers .
The stats show he outperformed everyone, including Brady, no disputing that....I wonder what Rodgers numbers would be had he played his home games in a Dome v. Lambeau? Or with Sean Payton calling his plays? Strange that Brees was never considered the best QB in the league in any given year tho...0 First Team All-Pro selection...VERY low vote totals over such a long career with such large numbers...I think it's safe to say that the HOF voters are able to place that "handicap" on Brees numbers due to the variables listed above? Or do you believe there has been some conspiracy against Brees, who IMO is one of if not the nicest NFL players I've ever met or been around?
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Using the data I track, only missed on Navarro Bowman, and I posted this list here in June of 2019...But hey, what does my discernment know? Obviously can't interpret the data....lol
With the final season of the decade on tap, here are my predictions for 1st Team All-Decade for the 2010s that should be announced at some point next January/February.
QB-Tom Brady
RB-Adrian Peterson
WR-Antonio Brown
WR-Calvin Johnson
TE-Rob Gronkowski
FLEX-LeVeon Bell, Travis Kelce or Julio Jones...Depending on 2019 performances
OT-Joe Thomas
OT-Tyron Smith
OG-Marshall Yanda
OG-Zach Martin
OC-Maurkice Pouncy..Outside shot by Jason Kelse depending on 2019 performance
Edge-JJ Watt
Edge-Von Miller or Khalil Mack..depends on 2019 performance
Interior DL-Aaron Donald
Interior DL-Ndamukong Suh
LB-Luke Kuechly
LB-Bobby Wagner
LB-Navorro Bowman
CB-Darrelle Revis
CB-Richard Sherman
S-Eric Thomas
S-Eric Berry
P-Johnny Hekker
K-Justin Tucker
I'm here to question, not to inspire or build up. To live how I want, as I see fit, according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Comments
There were two senior nominees a year from 2004-2014 until the five-year alternating process began in 2015. So hopefully that means they “go back” to two vice one? Fingers crossed. The backlog still exists, and it’d get worse with only one a year.
There was only one a year from 1972-2003.
I think they will move back to one per year, or possibly one senior every other year. I get the feeling that the committee believes the backlog no longer exists. There also aren't a ton of modern candidates that will become strong Senior candidates over the next 5-10 years either..So the senior pool isn't going to grow much. These full 5 person modern classes will have the modern "backlog" cleaned out by 2022-2023?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Next 10 years of "possible" additions to the Senior pool...Likely at least 2 of these (Boselli and Butler) will make it in as modern candidates...Do any of these guys really create a worse backlong in the Senior Pool?
Clay Matthews 2021
Sam Mills 2022
Steve Tasker 2022
Albert Lewis 2023
Leslie O'Neal 2024
Tony Boselli 2026
LeRoy Butler 2026
Ricky Watters 2026
Steve Wiesniewski 2026
Darren Woodson 2029
If they move to one per year, would cover the other centennial senior finalists who didn't get elected in 2020. I mean here are the next 10 senior nominees... Would any of the above (aside from Boselli or Butler) slot into to this list to create a backlog? Just giving the big picture view on why they are likely to reduce to 1 per year.
Roger Craig
Cliff Branch
Randy Gradishar
Drew Pearson
LaVern Dilweg
Ox Emerson
Cecil Isbell
Verne Lewellen
Tommy Nobis
Al Wistert
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I’d like to see them go back to the alternating process. I too believe there is still a backlog of deserving candidates. There were some that didn’t make the centennial finalist that at least deserve to be in the discussion. Even if they nominated 2 players as senior candidates, they can still be voted down like Karras or Goldberg have been in the past. I wouldn’t have any issues with that. There are certain positions that I’d like to see represented better in the Hall(centers, DT). Not the flashiest positions but just as important as almost any other position.
Which list have we used for the all decade teams in the past? I'll request it, but want to be consistent in which one we use. IS it from the Pro Football HOF?
Correct...The one quoted when HOF voters call guys All -Decade...For whatever reason the HOF has not even requested a vote for 2010s All-Decade team, at least as of last week...
1960s set being the exception, as we used i believe Pro Football Writers of America All-Decade team that included AFL and NFL..This was back when we were trying to prevent set overload that you see on there now..lol
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
I recalled Kurt Warner's rookie originally being Crown Royal. Is that correct or am I mistaken?
And if anyone could clear this up for me, we have always gone with SP as the key rookie from 1993 until UD lost their license unless the SP rookie was an auto, jersey, or numbered less than /999.
Thanks
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Marshall Yanda just retired. Is he a HOFer? My first instinct was “no,” but his 8 Pro Bowls caused me to at least give it a thought.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
95% Yanda is first team decade as well. Probably 60/40?
I would lean more towards “yes” as I also think he will make the all-decade team.
The 2010 All Decade Team was released tody, no first or second team this year.
https://www.profootballhof.com/nfls-all-decade-team-of-the-2010s/
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
The big take away is the unanimous choices. I liked it when they did 1st and 2nd team All-Decade Teams. Anyone surprised with any of the selections or snubs?
Rodgers over Brees?
Antonio Brown being selected for anything but trial dates
AP unanimous
The QB position to me was tough. I would have no complaints if Brees was selected over Rodgers. The RB position was also rough.
First Team?
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001091563/article/my-2010s-alldecade-team-tom-brady-edges-aaron-rodgers
Question on Yanda...is his only RC card the 2015 Topps ? I can't find any others prior to that.
The 2015 Topps #273 for Marshal Yanda
Looks like Bobby Wagner is putting together a pretty impressive resume. What 2012 RC of his would be the choice? The Elite is #d to 999. Bowman Sterling, I guess, would be the other choice. I'm really not very well versed in these moderns if there is no Topps Chrome choice.
I think Prizm replaces Topps Chrome as the usual choice and when Wagner was brought up in this thread a couple months ago I believe the Prizm was the final verdict.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Funny, I thought it was the Crown Royale?
Must be I’m mistaken.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
You could be right - looks like the Seahawks ALL pro is the Panini
I think most people liked the Crown Royale. It’d be nice to figure out the card for the registry. Anyone think Staley or Weddle have a real shot?
For reasons unknown to me, Drew Brees has always been considered a notch below contemporaries like Manning, Brady and Rodgers. It's always driven me crazy. On the flip side, as good as he is, Aaron Rodgers is without question overrated. Brees definitely deserved this recognition over Rodgers.
Prizm is the first choice with Chrome out of the picture but 2015 is tricky for a few players who were not in Chrome but in Prizm. Previously Elite has been used when Chrome was not an option, followed by Rookie and Stars.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I am not sure the majority really prefer Crown Royale. The Cowboys All Pro and Pro Bowl set recently had a Crown Royale switched to Certified based on poll results and they said the card selected would be his key rookie going forward.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I’m sure all have seen them, but here they are side by side. I can’t imagine the price differential is very much:
Question is....if he retires tomorrow (ala Patrick Willis), does his current resume withstand the scrutiny? If so, what would be this groups choice?
Respectfully disagree. I definitely agree Brees is higher in the all time rankings, however that’s not what the all decade team is about. Rodgers won more games than Brees in the decade and Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, which Brees did not. To be honest, I haven’t looked at the yards and TDs, but at first glance I think Rodgers deserves the nod.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
I would say yes to the HOF (combination of Accolades and and a Super Bowl ring) and either Elite or Prizm.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
I would lean toward the Elite Wagner because it’s numbered. I think we definitely need a poll. It could be an informal one between us.
I would probably side with Elite since it has been used in multiple sets as the third option when SP and Chrome were not an option. Just my opinion but I think Prizm is a good option for rookies 2012-2015 when Chrome, Elite, or Rookie & Stars are not an option.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
The Crown Royale should not even be an option. Wagner's Crown Royale hobby base RC is serial numbered to 399, which is too rare to be chosen, and his Crown Royale retail-only base RC (the card shown above, I believe) is too esoteric.
I only participate in the autographed versions of the HOF Rookie and Future HOF Rookie registries, so I'm not sure if you all would be willing to include my vote in the poll. Those sets are meant to parallel the unsigned versions though, and whichever card is chosen here will be the same for the autographed sets.
If you're willing to accept my vote I prefer the Prizm over the Elite. As BillsGridironGreats mentioned above, PSA has already used the Prizm in the Seahawks All Pro & Pro Bowl Leaders set, and Prizm has consistently been the choice for players in the post-Topps Chrome era like Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, Zeke Elliott, Michael Thomas, Goff, et al.
I'd vote for the Elite as well, but the Prizm is already on the Seahawks ALL Pro set. So if we pick that and PSA says okay - I'll still be buying both.
Wins are a team accomplishment. For the decade 2010-2019, here's the comparison
All Pro selections
Brees 10
Rodgers 7 (2 First Team)
Name Comp Att Comp% Yds TD
Brees 4173 5997 69.6 46770 345 (missed 7 games in the decade)
Rodgers 3187 4925 64.7 38145 305 (missed 18 games in the decade)
So nearly 1k more completions, nearly 5% better completion %, 8600+ more yards, 40 more TDs
Brady's numbers for comparison
All Pro 9 (2 First Team)
3705 5770 64.2 43737 316 (missed 4 games in the decade)
Exactly! For good measure, you can throw in that Rodgers is a total a hole and Brees is not.
Thanks for the statistical comparison.
Yaz Master Set
#1 Gino Cappelletti master set
#1 John Hannah master set
Also collecting Andre Tippett, Patriots Greats' RCs, 1964 Venezuelan Topps, 1974 Topps Red Sox
Total All-Pro Votes for QBs from 2010-2019...Correct 2 were selected...
Tom Brady, New England, 120
Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 105.5
Peyton Manning, Denver, 88
Lamar Jackson, Baltimore, 47
Pat Mahomes, Kansas City, 45
Cam Newton, Carolina, 40
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29
Drew Brees, New Orleans, 7.5
Carson Palmer, Arizona, 6
Russell Wilson, Seattle, 5
Tony Romo, Dallas, 3
Carson Wentz, Philadelphia, 2
Andrew Luck, Indianapolis, 1
Derek Carr, Oakland, 1
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Also MVP vote totals from 2010-2019 (Just QBs)
Tom Brady, 113
Aaron Rodgers, 93
Peyton Manning, 68.5
Lamar Jackson, 50
Cam Newton, 48
Patrick Mahomes, 41
Matt Ryan, 24
Drew Brees, 11
Carson Wentz, 2
Tony Romo, 2
Carson Palmer, 1
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
So Lamar Jackson’s one MVP season puts him forth on this list for votes for the decade? So yeah great measure for the all decade team qb.
I am an acknowledged Brees homer but especially with the time missed due to injury by Rodgers I would think Brees would get the nod
Howley has more All Pro selections than every LB on the 1960's All Decade team and did not make the team.
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
All that tells me is that the voters are not doing any serious evaluation and are unable to separate team statistics from individual. Assigning W/L to QBs in football is just as stupid as assigning it to pitchers in baseball, it's a team statistic in both cases and says very little about the individual.
Just for fun, YPA, Brees 7.80, Rodgers 7.75, Brady 7.58. So to match Brees in completions & %, Rodgers would have had to complete 986 passes out of 1072 additional (a 92% clip), while upping his YPA a bit to get to the yardage total. I repeat ...
The more interesting debate would be Brees or Brady for #1, and really comes down to how significantly one values post-season/team success.
So what the vote totals can tell you is how DOMINANT the player was at their positions v. others at the same position...Lamar Jackson got 49 of the 50 QB votes in his MVP/All-Pro Year...Obviously one year isn't enough to be all-decade...If this was the best QBs of the past 20 years, then it would be Brees and Brady for sure...But from 2010-2019, Drew Brees had a total of 7 1/2 All-Pro Votes...In no way shape or form was he the best or 2nd best QB from 2010-2019..At least according to the voters, most of which are also HOF voters...
If you disagree with their votes, which I do often, then that's another issue altogether. But Brees simply wasn't considered the best or 2nd best QB over the past 10 years...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Here are the TOTAL All-Pro votes for QBs over the past 20 years...2000-2019, Brees still not considered top 2. Great QB, but a notch down from the all-timers...
Peyton Manning 308.5
Tom Brady 185
Aaron Rodgers 93
Drew Brees 55
MVP voting from 2000-2019..
Peyton Manning 229
Tom Brady 180
Aaron Rodgers 93
Lamar Jackson 50
Cam Newton 48
Pat Mahomes 41
Kurt Warner 34
Steve McNair 27
Rich Gannon 24
Matt Ryan 24
Drew Brees 22.5 (yes...22.5 MVP votes in 20 years...Great QB, Great accumulator of numbers, not MVP level guy
or All-Decade level guy)
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Right, but the missing piece here is that who picked the teams? In the 1960s, only a few of the AP voters were also part of the HOF selection committee...Hell, there wasn't even a HOF until 1963...In 2020, Almost 75% of the All-Pro voters are also part of the 55 person HOF selection committee..
My point of posting and tracking the votes over the years is that its always been a pretty good way to determine who would make the All-Decade teams...And while I still dont agree with all the selections, as well as the top All-Pro vote getters were NOT selected to the All-Decade team, the percentage is very high..Close to 90%...I dont see anyone at any position who made the Decade team with as few All-Pro votes as Drew Brees had in the decade...7.5 All-Pro votes of a possible 500 at the position in the decade is way way way off...
If Brees were truly deserving of one of the top 2 spots, I would think he would have gotten more All-Pro votes over the past 10 (or 20) years...Accumulating large numbers is awesome, but it doesn't always equate to dominance..It moreso equates to staying healthy and playing a ton of games. Frank Gore a great example...How many All-Pro or MVP votes does he have? Long, excellent career, but not a dominant player in any of his seasons when compared to his peers...
Answer to the above? Frank Gore got exactly ONE All-Pro vote this decade and 14 in his entire career...Same number of votes as Alfred Morris had in his career...
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
0> @JasP24 said:
To assess just exactly how ignorant your retort is to either not know that Brees finished 2nd in the MVP voting in 2006, 2009, 2011, and 2018 or to completely disregard it because it does not fit your narrative. If you say that Brees is not MVP level then I have a hard time believing that you have the discernment to admit that there is actually another side to the argument but your own.
I am in the Brees camp as well. The stats show that he out performed Rodgers .
Super Bowl XXVIII: Buffalo Bills vs Dallas Cowboys -
Running back Emmitt Smith rushed for 132 yards and 2
touchdowns earning Super Bowl MVP honors as the Cowboys
defeated the Bills 30-13 to win their second consecutive NFL
title.
Well alright then...1-This wasn't my argument as I was not a voter for All-Pro, MVP or All-Decade. 2-Aaron Rodgers was FIRST in MVP voting in 2010 and 2014..Rodgers was also FIRST in All-Pro votes those years..How often for Brees?...3-Rodgers won a Super Bowl in the decade, Brees did not...4-Aside from accumulating numbers on a pass happy offense in a pass happy Dome, Rodgers has far more accolades in the decade than Brees...And the HOF voters agree. Both will likely be first ballot HOFers, and Brees probably ends his career with much bigger numbers. But he never had dominant seasons above and beyond his peers...And because of that, IMO he's just a notch below the top guys of this era...Brady, Peyton, Rodgers..Brees would be #4 of the era on my list...And 3rd best of the decade on my list (and apparently the HOF voters lists)..
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
The stats show he outperformed everyone, including Brady, no disputing that....I wonder what Rodgers numbers would be had he played his home games in a Dome v. Lambeau? Or with Sean Payton calling his plays? Strange that Brees was never considered the best QB in the league in any given year tho...0 First Team All-Pro selection...VERY low vote totals over such a long career with such large numbers...I think it's safe to say that the HOF voters are able to place that "handicap" on Brees numbers due to the variables listed above? Or do you believe there has been some conspiracy against Brees, who IMO is one of if not the nicest NFL players I've ever met or been around?
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.
Using the data I track, only missed on Navarro Bowman, and I posted this list here in June of 2019...But hey, what does my discernment know? Obviously can't interpret the data....lol
With the final season of the decade on tap, here are my predictions for 1st Team All-Decade for the 2010s that should be announced at some point next January/February.
QB-Tom Brady
RB-Adrian Peterson
WR-Antonio Brown
WR-Calvin Johnson
TE-Rob Gronkowski
FLEX-LeVeon Bell, Travis Kelce or Julio Jones...Depending on 2019 performances
OT-Joe Thomas
OT-Tyron Smith
OG-Marshall Yanda
OG-Zach Martin
OC-Maurkice Pouncy..Outside shot by Jason Kelse depending on 2019 performance
Edge-JJ Watt
Edge-Von Miller or Khalil Mack..depends on 2019 performance
Interior DL-Aaron Donald
Interior DL-Ndamukong Suh
LB-Luke Kuechly
LB-Bobby Wagner
LB-Navorro Bowman
CB-Darrelle Revis
CB-Richard Sherman
S-Eric Thomas
S-Eric Berry
P-Johnny Hekker
K-Justin Tucker
according to my values and my needs. Nothing holds dominion over me, I stand alone as the ruler of my life.