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Hansen watch.

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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    At the end of the day, DLH is collecting for himself.

    I believe the thrill of the hunt and the registry competition are also motivators...

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 7:52AM

    @drei3ree said:

    @Zoins said:
    At the end of the day, DLH is collecting for himself.

    I believe the thrill of the hunt and the registry competition are also motivators...

    Agree but it appears he’s doing that based on his own desires as well since he’s doing this in the face of heavy criticism.

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    SmEagle1795SmEagle1795 Posts: 2,136 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Or he's saying he doesn't need a coin that most would obviously assume he needs so that he can avoid being beaten up on price.

    Learn about our world's shared history told through the first millennium of coinage: Colosseo Collection
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 7:49AM

    Another interesting thing about the critique DLH’s collecting approach is receiving is that it’s not coming from people attempting to build complete sets of US coins.

    Of course, you could say no one else today is attempting to build such a set, but there may be a different mentality and perspective when building a full set than when having other collecting priorities.

    For example, when building a full set, a question can come up whether a rare coin created under special circumstances fits, but when the goal is to buy rare, special circumstance coins, the importance of a coin may change.

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here’s the rub - Eliasberg didn’t have the greatest coin collection ever (insert trumpet blare here). Green, Brand and Farouk (to name a few) were much more extensive....but incomplete. Sooooo...is his goal to beat Eliasberg without being complete to have ONE OF the greatest collections ever (insert trumpet blare here) or is his goal to be complete and better than Eliasberg to have the greatest complete collection ever (insert trumpet blare here)?

    I mean I’m sure competing with Eliasberg on a one by one basis is cool ...but doesn’t one have to recognize exactly what Eliasberg accomplished and match that to acclaim oneself as the greatest (complete set) coin collector ever (insert trumpet blare here). And if he wants to acclaim himself the greatest coin collector ever (insert trumpet blare here) then doesn’t he have to compare himself to those other collectors, not Eliasberg?

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    oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I really look forward to reading this thread each day, but I have to admit I'm both lost and lazy. Mr. Hansen has been interviewed and he is represented. Has he publicly disclosed his goals? Are they evolving? If we're going to watch this like a sporting event, we need to know the score.

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    oldabeintxoldabeintx Posts: 1,644 ✭✭✭✭✭

    P.S. And what sport we're watching.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 12:53PM

    @oldabeintx said:
    I really look forward to reading this thread each day, but I have to admit I'm both lost and lazy. Mr. Hansen has been interviewed and he is represented. Has he publicly disclosed his goals? Are they evolving? If we're going to watch this like a sporting event, we need to know the score.

    In addition to his interviews, he has a website with link below and John Brush, his dealer, has commented on his approach here.

    https://www.davidlawrence.com/hansen

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    CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:

    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did - own every American coin

    Bruce, I did tend to agree with your statement. Although, from the sideline where I sit, if every American coin is the only measurement, then it appear Hansen is being force to play a losing hand. Coins that he “must” have are also the same coins that has been stated a number of times on this thread as, “no way”, “never”, “not for sale”, etc. Then just about every nice coin that he does purchase, it is made to appear the reason he was able to buy the coin is because the inner circle states the coin was passed, did not like, etc.

    With that said, I think in just three years, he is making great progress, putting together a world-class collection, setting registry records that will stand the test of time, and will one day achieve the realistic goals that he is seeking for his great collection. All you can ask is to play the best hand that you can with the cards you are holding. And if the deck is stacked against you, other than quitting, really what can you do? Hansen is not Randolph Scott.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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    edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Eliasberg did not own every American coin.

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 5:56PM

    Currin - absolutely, positively his collection is world class. He probably made a mistake announcing that he was going to beat Eliasberg and already proclaiming his set as the best ever. IF he didn’t want to own certain coins then he never should have mentioned Eliasberg- just say his GOAL was to have the greatest ever collection...and we’d be talking about other issues (depth, breadth, etc...but not completeness). But he did...and we are.

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @edwardjulio said:
    Eliasberg did not own every American coin.

    Whatever

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 6:10PM

    @edwardjulio said:
    Eliasberg did not own every American coin.

    What was he missing besides this one?

    A great thing about Eliasberg is that he had a broad range of American coins including colonials, territorials and Confederates.

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,716 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Eliasberg was also missing the Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso to name another one.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Whatever...….
    In Proof:
    1858 Eagle
    1860 Eagle
    1866 Eagle
    1873 Eagle
    1874 Eagle
    1877 Eagle
    1879 Eagle
    1880 Eagle
    and other American coins.

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 6:52PM

    @wondercoin said:
    Eliasberg was also missing the Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso to name another one.

    According to Ron Guth on CoinFacts, there are 2 "1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins known, struck on different planchets, so 2 unique varieties, but still 2 in aggregate for "1907 USPI Proof Peso".

    Two Proof Philippines 1907 Pesos are known.

    The first is of the KM-168 variety, made on a planchet of the same diameter and fineness used from 1903 to 1906. This unique example is believed to reside in a museum in the Philippines.

    The second is of the KM-172 variety (illustrated above), made on a planchet of the same diameter and fineness used from 1907 to 1912. This unique example last appeared on the market in 2012 in the sale of the Dr. Greg Pineda Collection of Phillipines Coins and Paper Money. Currently, it resides in a PCGS PR65 holder.

    Here's the Dr. Greg Pineda / Lyn Knight specimen which is struck on the reduced size 80% silver peso planchet. The other specimen is struck on the larger, original size 90% silver peso planchet.

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Eliasberg wa> @edwardjulio said:

    Whatever...….
    In Proof:
    1858 Eagle
    1860 Eagle
    1866 Eagle
    1873 Eagle
    1874 Eagle
    1877 Eagle
    1879 Eagle
    1880 Eagle
    and other American coins.

    He had what he had...a set of coins undifferentiated for ms and proof. A proof 1866 something is still an 1866 something

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    wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,716 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 6:47PM

    Zoins.... I believe there are (2) Unique coins. One struck in 90% silver and owned by the Philippine government currently in their museum and the other struck in 80% silver currently in the United States in private hands. I do not believe Eliasberg was the owner of either of these (2) Unique bi-national United States Philippine Proof Pesos.

    Wondercoin

    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
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    edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut

    You are correct, he had what he had... and he did not have what he did not have, every American coin.

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 7:15PM

    @wondercoin said:
    Zoins.... I believe there are (2) Unique coins. One struck in 90% silver and owned by the Philippine government currently in their museum and the other struck in 80% silver currently in the United States in private hands. I do not believe Eliasberg was the owner of either of these (2) Unique bi-national United States Philippine Proof Pesos.

    Yes, it seems there are 2 different ones.

    Since there are two different ones saying just "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" is a bit confusing because it's impossible to tell which of the 2 "Unique 1907 USPI Proof Peso" coins is being discussed. It would be more clear to say something like "Unique KM-172 1907 USPI Proof Peso" or "Unique small planchet 1907 USPI Proof Peso".

    In any event, thanks for bringing it up. Good to keep USPI coins in the conversation!

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 22, 2019 6:57PM

    @edwardjulio said:
    @tradedollarnut

    You are correct, he had what he had... and he did not have what he did not have, every American coin.

    Well, if we want to be pedantic about "every American coin", he would have needed every coin struck, like all 5 1913 Liberty nickels, all 10 of the estimated 1858 proof Eagles, and all 2,521 of the 1858 unc Eagles ;)

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @edwardjulio said:
    @tradedollarnut

    You are correct, he had what he had... and he did not have what he did not have, every American coin.

    Who could?

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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    WOW, this thread really takes some crazy twists and turns sometimes! I'm gonna guess that DLH has some fairly tough skin and probably isn't as concerned about what's said in this thread as some here seem to believe. ;)

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    edwardjulioedwardjulio Posts: 1,034 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tradedollarnut said:
    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did -own every American coin

    End Systemic Elitism - It Takes All Of Us

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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @edwardjulio said:
    @tradedollarnut said:
    If you announce you are competing with Eliasberg then you have to do what Eliasberg did -own every American coin

    Ok, you got me.

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    CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @drei3ree said:

    @Currin said:

    Presently, Hansen has 27 coins in his collection of patterns. He will need about 175 more to equal Eliasberg.

    Currin, When you say DLH has "27 patterns," your reference is the PCGS registry, correct? Or, do you have other references?

    Yes, I do use the registry for Hansen. This is the set that I reference for his patterns.

    https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-patterns/complete-sets/complete-patterns-die-trials-experimental-pieces/alltimeset/167133

    Eliasberg’s patterns are not in the registry. The reference that I use is this electronic archived catalog. He had just a little over 200 pattern lots listed for sale.

    https://archive.org/details/louiseeliasbergs1996bowe

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    This is going to be a long race. Hansen can switch gears. Hansen could change his mind at any time on how he wants this to play out. He certainly has a lot of cards and lots of dough

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019 1:18AM

    Found Hansen's 1792 Half Disme. It's the Chalkley-Ryer specimen sold by Superior in January, 1990. Added the info to the post above.

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    amwldcoinamwldcoin Posts: 11,269 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, The pictures in the email from Stacks show it to be a Purdy Dime!

    @GoBust said:
    Those are some amazing 1792 patterns. The silver center cent is honestly real American treasure. I'm a huge fan of 1792 patterns with their more primitive, early Americana look as my fellow collectors know.

    Looks like a nice example of the 1894-S dime will be available from Stacks Bowers at the August ANA. That specimen might allow the esteemed Dell Loy to move up from 7 out of 10 of the most famous US coins to 8 out of 10 in the PCGS set. Good luck to John and Dell Loy.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 24, 2019 5:46PM

    @specialist said:
    Its ok, those are patterns. Even tho Mr Simspon does not care for most early ones, he still has the best J-1 that exists-damn thing looks like it was minted yesterday. And he has what I believe to really be the first $1 struck-the NO STARS 1794.....And some other ho hum coins that are unique!

    Since this is a Hansen thread, what do you think of Hansen’s patterns? I think the color on the J-1 looks really nice!

    Does Simpson have a J-7? There are just 2 higher than Hansen’s.

    And while Simpson may not care about patterns from the early Mint, what do you think of them?

    That 94S in 63 is scary. That is the coin that was "stolen" last year. Someone really needs to clarify what happened.

    Do we know who owns it now? Why is “stolen” in quotes? What happened to it?

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    drei3reedrei3ree Posts: 3,430 ✭✭✭✭

    The Newcomer 94-s was stolen in Colorado, but that one was an NGC 63. The Stacks sale is the PCGS 63 which is the one Jerry Buss owned...

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    OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.

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    CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.

    Some of the estimates made by the legend experts blows me away. They estimated this coin as Estimate: 10,000.00 - 12,500.00.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,147 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Smoe sick prices realized. Legend is a color consignor’s dream

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Currin said:

    @OldIndianNutKase said:
    Hansen vs. Forsythe Legend Regency Auction 33" 1938-S Mercury Dime 68+ FB hammered for over $300,000 plus juice (PCGS $$ for 68 is only about $5000). The winner will have the #1 Mercury Dime set. Who won???? Lots of $$ for bragging rights.

    Some of the estimates made by the legend experts blows me away. They estimated this coin as Estimate: 10,000.00 - 12,500.00.

    With MS68 at $5k, $10k for MS68+ may have seemed reasonable. $300k is a sign of the strong economy we have.

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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    please. we made estimates based on what the coins should be worth.

    there were 3-3 zillionares bidding on those coins.

    NO ONE can estimate that.

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    JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,847 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @specialist said:
    please. we made estimates based on what the coins should be worth.

    there were 3-3 zillionares bidding on those coins.

    NO ONE can estimate that.

    Boys will be boys

    m

    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
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    specialistspecialist Posts: 956 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I need to clarify-Forsythe was NOT the under bidder on the 10C. he was in really strong though.

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    ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited June 28, 2019 2:56AM

    Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.

    Amazingly, this set was offered twice as 16 separate lots and in both cases, 1 collector won every single lot. The 3rd time Stack's sold the set, it was sold together as a single lot.

    Of note, when the lots were sold separately in 2010, the lots brought an aggregate of $125,177.50, but when the lots were sold together in 2016, they only brought $64,625.00.

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    jerseycat101jerseycat101 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Zoins said:
    Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.

    Now that DLH has the greatest US Coin Collection ever, and is now extending his magnificent US Pattern collection, I am sure a world class US Medal collection is forthcoming.

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    mas3387mas3387 Posts: 1,491 ✭✭✭
    edited June 29, 2019 5:20AM

    @jerseycat101 said:

    @Zoins said:
    Not sure if Hansen feels the need to "duplicate and extend" the Eliasberg set in the area of medals, but Eliasberg had a great set of 15 Lincoln gold medals and case.

    Now that DLH has the greatest US Coin Collection ever, and is now extending his magnificent US Pattern collection, I am sure a world class US Medal collection is forthcoming.

    I Agree !!!! THE Greatest !!

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    CurrinCurrin Posts: 1,518 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @washingtonrainbows said:
    Prices in Washington quarters were high as well. The 49-d ms 68 set a record for example as well as the 52-d 67+. Unfortunately l was under bidder on both. The 49-d went for 37k pre juice and 52-d 18k. Hansen already listed both in his sets.

    Congratulation on the World Class set you have put together. These two Hansen coins would have looked nice in the set, but it is all ready impressive. Great success in a very competitive series.

    My 20th Century Type Set, With Type Variations---started : 9/22/1997 ---- completed : 1/7/2004

    My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004

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