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Legend “Supernova” Shipwreck $20 Gold
Proofmorgan
Posts: 715 ✭✭✭✭✭
Does anyone have an image to share of this coin in the holder? I’ve been bombarded by trueview images of this coin for months and months, but have not seen a holder pic and will not get to the Legend table before their Regency Auction to take a look at it.
Anyone?
Collector of Original Early Gold with beginnings in Proof Morgan collecting.
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oops
Sorry,,,, Didn't find the slab.
There is an obverse slab shot in the auction catalog
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Thank you! At least there’s the obverse.
Anyone see it in hand?
I’d be curious what this would sell in an unrestricted auction. The $270k starting price is up there.
MS67? That's gotta be a blazer!
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or scorched.
@Proofmorgan
Posted on this thread:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1017978/the-supernova
“Legend Rare Coin Auctions is proud to present the most beautifully and amazingly colorful toned gold coin we have ever seen! This is the WORLD FAMOUS, gorgeously toned SUPERNOVA 1857-S double eagle. Used in all the early marketing for the second round of coins recovered from the S.S. Central America treasure, it has received worldwide attention for its truly remarkable beauty! Dubbed Supernova by the partners of the California Gold Marketing Group, who purchased and marketed the recovered treasures from the fabled S.S. Central America shipwreck due to its absolutely stunning toning. Needless to say, this SUPERB GEM is among the absolute FINEST 1857-S double eagles recovered and is truly UNIQUE in terms of its superlative patination.”
Yes. I’ve examined the coin. It’s quite extraordinary.
"Supernova"? "A star that suddenly increases greatly in brightness because of a catastrophic explosion that ejects most of its mass." There is something wrong with our language when thus applied to objects that can only reflect light, not generate it.
Splotchy toning on obverse. Black crust on reverse with some more splotchiness.
No, thanks.
I’d pass on that coin 10 times out of 9.
It certainly is interesting; however, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I suspect there is a wider range of views on this coin. The color coins i find most appealing have more symetry and uniform target toning especially around the central devices. No doubt this coin is an amazing piece of history. The coin will certainly answer the question as to what dramatic color variations on the surface of a 19th century gold coin rescued from the ocean is worth. Certainly seems to have climbed to the top of the shipwreck food chain. Do others believe its one of the most valuable shipwreck coins known? Any guess as to value?
If it hits reserve, would this be the largest toning premium ever? The Legend Franklin ('58?) was up there too as I recall, maybe 10 or 20x?
That looks like a coin that should be called environmentally damaged. The copper corroded right out of that coin(hence the colors)! Of course my opinion could change if I saw it in hand!
If you are going by value added then the ~$110K premium for the Franklin is probably number 1, but looking at the multiple it is nowhere close. I have seen 100x for some outrageous MS65 and MS66 Morgans and there are probably some toned brown Lincolns that would exceed even that.
Looks like superficial rust stains. Should come off with proper conservation and stabilization. (See Kagin's Saddle Ridge hoard.)
A numerical grade on Details coins such as Chop Marked and Shipwreck has been known to separate fools and their money.
So just focus on the label info and bid supernova nuclear!
I really like the coin but not THAT much. That is one Hefty estimated price tag. Is it a true 67? It likely got a bump for its questionable (as opined by some) color.
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Coin has already been conserved so those stains are well beyond skin deep.
They should have called it "Novacaine" as glancing at it makes my wallet numb
If I had more dollars than sense I'd bid just for the novelty of it.
Explain "conserved." The coin looks much like other salvage gold before the superficial gunk was removed.
I asked you before and never got an answer - when was the last time you saw blue rust? And if it were merely superficial rust stains then the luster would be muted. So at worst it’s thin film interference cause by a molecules thick layer....a freak of nature even if you’re correct.
Didn't see your question.
However, you can pay someone to answer your questions. You might also pay to consult professional metallurgists and museum experts in sea salvage conservation and restoration. [But a little hint: the grunge on the coin in question has very little to do with thin film interference. It has a lot to do with your ignorance of the subject.]
Pass. There are many other coins I would choose before this one.
I'd be much happier with a blazing luster 1857-S in MS-66, with enough cash left over to buy a nice MS-65 octagonal Pan Pac for my collection.
This coin will appeal to some, but a coin with this type of toning is not my cup of tea.
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My god - how do you live with yourself?
Ouch!!!
I admit the holder does not help it. But examing it close you see the dazzling colors really clearly.
The partner on the Shipwreck deal Dwight Manley told me they found the coin looking exactly like it is. They have the images.
We've had many serious inquiries. We shall see what happens
PCGS price guide for MS-67 1857-S is $175k, Reserve at $270k, so toning/shipwreck premium is just under the Franklin, at 95k at the moment. Thats "only" 40%.
No thank you.
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My guess is that it will fail to meet reserve. I personally think the coin's toning pattern is unattractive. What I think doesn't matter as I would never be in the market for a coin or any other collectible in that price range.
So this condition is considered natural because the sea crud that attached and grew on that coin slowly affected the surface of the gold? I don't think so. Peace Roy
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There was a beautifully toned
half eagle in the Saddle Ridge
Hoard (1892-CC) Half Eagle
I also remember one Cal Fractional
piece recovered from the SSCA
(BG 106) 1855/4 1/4 Dollar that had
a little bit of blue in it I wonder if
the pieces were found in close
proximity at the wreck site
Yeah... I'd have to see that coin in hand. The images just don't do anything for me.
I love the coin, I just have nowhere near the money needed to buy it
Seen it in hand, it's all there for the grade.
Actually there is a process called "bluing" of steel in which steel oxidizes to protect itself from rusting. I wonder if this is nature's version of bluing. This supports RWB's hypothesis that it is remnant stains on the surface from metal that has partially rusted and/or blued and is not actually toning on the coin per se. I also don't agree that the if there are remnants of rust that it would necessarily mute the luster.
The original PCGS glamour photos have much more color than the TrueView. Perhaps Phil / @PCGSPhoto could switch the TrueView to use the glamour shots?
1857-S Double Eagle SS Central America "Supernova" PCGS MS67 CAC pop 487/3/1
Original PCGS Glamour Shots
First posted here before it was a Legend coin: https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/993870/looking-forward-to-some-original-ship-of-gold-coins
PCGS TrueView
Slab Photo
Yikes! Im not sure if I like the toning on this or not. The PCGS Glamour Shots do look better than the trueviews in my opinion.
I think that it is one of the ugliest coins that I have ever seen! I would only be interested at melt.
I'm sorry! But no matter how I look at that it is Fugly to me!
...finally somebody with enough balls to say what 90% of naysayers are thinking while keyboarding their hatred. So funny man...that coin is bitchin!
I love the coin in the glamour shots. I wonder if anything happened to it between the glamour shots and the TrueView or if the difference is just the lighting.
When the coin is seen in hand, the feeling is almost the same as Chris Matthews about Barack Obama.
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Not for me...even if I had the money....
No way to judge this coin w/o seeing in person. I'm guessing the luster is booming and really makes the colors pop.
Far too many people on this thread are basing their opinion without seeing the coin in hand. That's the equivalent of judging a horse by feeling only the tail while wearing a gauzy blindfold. It doesn't quite work.
For people who think all toning is just ugly tarnish, this coin won't change your mind. But for those that like something a bit different (and can afford it), this coin could be your ticket. I can't imagine any serious bidders for a coin like this relying on only pictures.
I wouldn't call the luster on this coin booming, but it is full and doesn't get dull and flat within the colors.
10-4,
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(1) if someone wanted it gone, could the stuff (staining, crud, etc) be conserved off by a professional?
(2) does the holder with the little pinch of gold strike anyone else as a little gimmicky for a coin with a $270,000.00 reserve?
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That's a good point.
Hard pass. More like The Super No-bro.
I feel the description and verbiage is that of someone who is trying to polish a turd.
I resemble that statement. But in this day and age, I like coins that are photogenic in addition to looking great in hand.