@roadrunner said:
Copper sulfate is blue in crystalline form....a little more green/grey when water escapes. There's approx 10% copper in a classic US gold coin.
These kinds of chemicals have a dull luster, not the toning on this coin or others...........
@coinlieutenant said:
It never had a truview @Stuart....but I hear you. I think the coin had a stacks pedigree. Killing me I can't remember who owned it.
IIRC it was from a mid-late 90's NYC auction, but not Stacks. Doyle? Very classy photo with strong coin-porn value. I was floored when I saw it. As TDN noted, it belonged to @oreville, who also owned Norman Stack's 1869 $20 (also OMG+)
"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
Here is an image of Oreville's 1875-s $20 MS67. It is in both the PCGS and NGC population reports at this grade. For identification purposes, there is toning on the obverse rim as 3 o'clock. The photo is from the 1995 James A. Stack auction catalog. Thanks NNP. Years ago, Oreville mention to me that he sold it, but had it CAC approved before the sale.
@Broadstruck said:
Since this thread has gone from cats to butts...
I can state that I find the Supernova more eye appealing than 98% of the Yoga Pants just seen roaming the Mall
As a professional (Mall Rat) I can say that it all depends on where you live, when you go (daytime &no weekends), and the specific Mall. I can tell you have never been inside an "upscale" mall in Georgia! OMG!
@tradedollarnut said:
Wow is this forum’s search function junk or what? Tried to find oreville’s old pics and it was not a good experience
I tried too TDN. Nightmare.
@Insider2 def not same coin. I should have remembered it was Oreville's. We talked about it at a Baltimore grading class with the Col a few years back.
@specialist that is the coin in the stacks catalog...but the pic sucks. We were making a point that it is an amazing beast of a coin.
@tradedollarnut said:
Wow is this forum’s search function junk or what? Tried to find oreville’s old pics and it was not a good experience
I remember he had an in hand shot with the slab pictured. That coin was/is a wonder. Point being and back to the OP, I would much prefer Oreville's 75-S to the Supernova reciprocal, although the pair together would be quite welcome. Along with a 69-S (I think in 67). Edited to add....let me see my memory is correct and I will try and find the 69-S Edited again to add....nope. No 69-S in 67.
There you go Bruce....why not do an S mint set in MS67. ONLY the S mint 20s that exist in 67. . See how helpful I am!
I was able to find the following👇2 Obverse (only) Images of Oreville’s 1875-S PCGS MS-67 $20 Gold Liberty Double Eagle via Google Search link to @Oreville PCGS Coin Photo Album.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
The other 1875-s listed earlier looks like a 64 coin. Coinfacts shows a pair of 64+ coins of which the better one looks nicer these others. That's still a long ways from the ex-Oreville MS67. There are no 65's or 66's graded for this date.
@specialist said:
Love the no nothings who comment.
Why do you denigrate folks here all of the time? Can't you make your point and be civil while doing so? BTW, should be 'know nothing"......
While we all are waiting for the "Angry Feline" to reply, let me give you something to think about. I've been looking at coins for a very long time and getting paid to play at one of my hobbies. Nevertheless, there is a group of folks who post here that know more about coins than I ever will even if I were going to be alive for another twenty years! They are a rare group who I will not embarrass with tags.
At the level they operate on, all the rest of us are basically "know nothings."
Oh your talking about the COIN GODS
I believe in them.
@specialist said:
I can't believe I said angry cat, geez was I tired. The cats real name was Tarter Sauce. She died of a urinary tract infection. RIP.
My birdy of 29 years died recently.
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Whoever named this coin "Supernova" obviously knew little about astronomy........ The toning pattern and color on this coin are reflective of a Nebula, not a supernova, and reminds me of the Dumbell Nebula:
Will the wannabe astronomer who named this coin please step forward.
@OldIndianNutKase I was thinking the same thing as you - again! — However, I was considering (M-57) The Ring Nebula which I saw recently at the Texas Star Party👍
You & I are modulating on the the same Frequency & WaveLength!! 😁
M-57 - Ring Nebula
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Whoever named this coin "Supernova" obviously knew little about astronomy........ The toning pattern and color on this coin are reflective of a Nebula, not a supernova, and reminds me of the Dumbell Nebula:
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
"@OldIndianNutKase I was thinking the same thing as you - again! — However, I was thinking about (M-57) The Ring Nebula which I saw recently at the Texas Star Party👍
You & I are modulating on the the same Frequency & WaveLength!! 😁"
@Stuart, perhaps you (or someone so inclined) can go one step further and photoshop it over a $20 double eagle........but I really liked the name Dumbell Nebula (actual name).
This thread has it all:
1. Controversial coin with some big dogs weighing in and not necessarily agreeing.
2. Spat between Specialist and the Colonel who still like each other (methinks)
3. Astronomy nerds making coin nerds look normal (okay not really)
4. Most importantly, roadrunner weighing in as one of the most unbiased, knowledgeable posters. Please stay longer!
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I'm actually bored w/the thread. It is meaningless. Lots of chest pounding from people who have never seen the coin.
Me thinks the Col off his meds again. Which pisses me off because the old coot does not share.
Dwight Manley named it-he is the head of the marketing group who owns the coins. I have known him for 20+ years. And he knows his stuff. I was told in person by the chief scientist he personally over saw this coin being pulled up when it was found and that it was never touched. They have all the pics.
I'm off my med to, so I will play in the flame games for a while.
What happened to the @amwldcoin poll? The debate was quite entertaining and was educational for us no-nothings (description from the all-knowings).
I submit to the forum that most of us are not no-nothings and know for sure when they are being fleeced, or at least hyped. Apparently this was contrary to the "all knowings" who have enough power and connections to tell PCGS was speech is "allowed" as their feelings are hurt. Suppression of free speech as I see it.
Sound familiar on the national stage? I won't go there......
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
@specialist said:
Dwight Manley named it-he is the head of the marketing group who owns the coins. I have known him for 20+ years. And he knows his stuff. I was told in person by the chief scientist he personally over saw this coin being pulled up when it was found and that it was never touched. They have all the pics.
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Sooooo, now is the time for someone on this forum to chime in and accuse my Dumbell Nebula as being AT........
OINK
It probably is!
Don't they frequently color enhance those images to bring out details since they are often taken using light beyond the visible spectrum or even when taken in the visible spectrum?
.
.
As for the Supernova 1857-S $20, I firmly stand on the side of undecided.
Not having seen it in person, I don't know what I would say about it in person. Might like the colors or might not, though suspect I would lean toward like if as strong as the original PCGS article photos. Might think the grade is too high or might agree with it. This is a coin I just can't draw a final conclusion from two dimensional images alone.
Also thought somewhere there were publicly released photos with it visible in a stack of coins on the ocean floor, though not sure.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
I've studied these pics for at least 30 minutes, and for what my no-nothing input is worth:
1) These pics seem to capture the toning as prettier than previously presented, and the eye appeal appears great also.
2) The discussed/disputed marks appear to all be there, and appear to be prominent.
3) The angle presented, appears to show friction/rub on each side, more friction/rub than I ever could of imagined, and really didn't expect at all.
An EAC'ers biggest beef is typically, very high-end AU coins showing friction/rub, ending up in UNC holders...
...but it happens a lot beyond just copper coins, an expected awful lot, and it means absolutely nothing at the end of the day.
Next!
"They lost because their phenoms failed to phenominate." - Yogi Berra
I can tell you! The net is not neutral anymore and neither is this forum. I thought it was a way to see what the lurkers thought about the coin since it was so controversial! I'm sure most here know who had the thread Poofed!
Edit to add: When it was poofed IMHO it was favoring the supernova coin!
@Cameonut said:
What happened to the @amwldcoin poll? The debate was quite entertaining and was educational for us no-nothings (description from the all-knowings).
I submit to the forum that most of us are not no-nothings and know for sure when they are being fleeced, or at least hyped. Apparently this was contrary to the "all knowings" who have enough power and connections to tell PCGS was speech is "allowed" as their feelings are hurt. Suppression of free speech as I see it.
Sound familiar on the national stage? I won't go there......
@OldIndianNutKase said:
Whoever named this coin "Supernova" obviously knew little about astronomy........ The toning pattern and color on this coin are reflective of a Nebula, not a supernova, and reminds me of the Dumbell Nebula:
Will the wannabe astronomer who named this coin please step forward.
OINK
I thought @Broadstruck 's swirling Tidy-Bowl comparison was spot on.
@amwldcoin said:
I can tell you! The net is not neutral anymore and neither is this forum. I thought it was a way to see what the lurkers thought about the coin since it was so controversial! I'm sure most here know who had the thread Poofed!
@Cameonut said:
What happened to the @amwldcoin poll? The debate was quite entertaining and was educational for us no-nothings (description from the all-knowings).
I submit to the forum that most of us are not no-nothings and know for sure when they are being fleeced, or at least hyped. Apparently this was contrary to the "all knowings" who have enough power and connections to tell PCGS was speech is "allowed" as their feelings are hurt. Suppression of free speech as I see it.
Sound familiar on the national stage? I won't go there......
The poll was fine. The title was horsecrapola. I have no idea who got it poofed
@specialist said:
I was told in person by the chief scientist he personally over saw this coin being pulled up when it was found and that it was never touched. They have all the pics.
I don't think anyone doubted that. The most vocal dissent I saw was that it looked stained or environmentally damaged from salvage metal corroding on top of it.
@amwldcoin said:
I can tell you! The net is not neutral anymore and neither is this forum. I thought it was a way to see what the lurkers thought about the coin since it was so controversial! I'm sure most here know who had the thread Poofed!
@Cameonut said:
What happened to the @amwldcoin poll? The debate was quite entertaining and was educational for us no-nothings (description from the all-knowings).
I submit to the forum that most of us are not no-nothings and know for sure when they are being fleeced, or at least hyped. Apparently this was contrary to the "all knowings" who have enough power and connections to tell PCGS was speech is "allowed" as their feelings are hurt. Suppression of free speech as I see it.
Sound familiar on the national stage? I won't go there......
The poll was fine. The title was horsecrapola. I have no idea who got it poofed
I don't think PCGS likes supernova threads. There was also a companion thread to this one that went POOF too. This one will be gone soon, but I don't think anyone (regardless of side) will be forgetting this "supernova" anytime soon.
If those are accurate, the color looks less outlandish and garish to me; however, it isn't what I would call a monster worth a five figure premium either. I hope Legend does display it publicly.
Comments
This thread is fascinating on multiple different levels, topics and subtopics.
It would be a treat to one day see the supernova coin in hand.
Oreville
Garrett dollar in-hand vs. Beyoncé's butt in-hand? Now there's a poll I'd like to see.
Since this thread has gone from cats to butts...
I can state that I find the Supernova more eye appealing than 98% of the Yoga Pants just seen roaming the Mall
These kinds of chemicals have a dull luster, not the toning on this coin or others...........
Best, SH
IIRC it was from a mid-late 90's NYC auction, but not Stacks. Doyle? Very classy photo with strong coin-porn value. I was floored when I saw it.
As TDN noted, it belonged to @oreville, who also owned Norman Stack's 1869 $20 (also OMG+)
Here is an image of Oreville's 1875-s $20 MS67. It is in both the PCGS and NGC population reports at this grade. For identification purposes, there is toning on the obverse rim as 3 o'clock. The photo is from the 1995 James A. Stack auction catalog. Thanks NNP. Years ago, Oreville mention to me that he sold it, but had it CAC approved before the sale.
The 75S was a clean MONSTER. Not what image is being shown here (the one above is good). See the fake news this place spits out?
Too nice out side to waste my time here. Later
As a professional (Mall Rat) I can say that it all depends on where you live, when you go (daytime &no weekends), and the specific Mall. I can tell you have never been inside an "upscale" mall in Georgia! OMG!
IMO, @specialist is correct. This does not appear to be the same coin as:
Wow is this forum’s search function junk or what? Tried to find oreville’s old pics and it was not a good experience
Where is @oreville ?
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
@TradeDollarNut I found Oreville’s Jan 24, 2009 1875-S $20 Liberty PCGS-67 Forum👇Thread describing the sale of this coin via Google search.
However, unfortunately there were no photos of the coin remaining there.
Web Link: 👉 https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/701335/finalized-the-sale-of-the-1875-s-20-pcgs-ms-67-pictures-now-included
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
Good call, didn’t think of that search method
@Insider2 the two coins are definitely different.
I tried too TDN. Nightmare.
@Insider2 def not same coin. I should have remembered it was Oreville's. We talked about it at a Baltimore grading class with the Col a few years back.
@specialist that is the coin in the stacks catalog...but the pic sucks. We were making a point that it is an amazing beast of a coin.
siliconvalleycoins.com
The catalog description from the 1995 James A Stack sale (which was Oreville's coin) is copied below.
I remember he had an in hand shot with the slab pictured. That coin was/is a wonder. Point being and back to the OP, I would much prefer Oreville's 75-S to the Supernova reciprocal, although the pair together would be quite welcome. Along with a 69-S (I think in 67). Edited to add....let me see my memory is correct and I will try and find the 69-S Edited again to add....nope. No 69-S in 67.
There you go Bruce....why not do an S mint set in MS67. ONLY the S mint 20s that exist in 67.
. See how helpful I am! 
siliconvalleycoins.com
@tradedollarnut
If doing only T1 and T2, there is only 57-S, 61, 61 Paq (Yikes) and 75-S.
If you include T3, 96-S, 97-S, 98-S, 99-S, 02-S, 04, 05-S, 06-S and 07-D.
Lucky 13!
siliconvalleycoins.com
I was able to find the following👇2 Obverse (only) Images of Oreville’s 1875-S PCGS MS-67 $20 Gold Liberty Double Eagle via Google Search link to @Oreville PCGS Coin Photo Album.
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
The other 1875-s listed earlier looks like a 64 coin. Coinfacts shows a pair of 64+ coins of which the better one looks nicer these others. That's still a long ways from the ex-Oreville MS67. There are no 65's or 66's graded for this date.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1875-s-20/8975
I'd like to know how many of the "lucky 13" MS67's are ex-Eliasberg coins.
Hmmmm! Why doesn't this thread go POOF!
Define “it”.
Seems to me that the colors can have have different causes in different places. Not that I can tell you anything more specific than that.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Edited to say "Oops".
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Oh your talking about the COIN GODS
I believe in them.
My birdy of 29 years died recently.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Bid Ask, I am so sorry to hear.......RIP little guy
Thank you Laura
Hope yours are doing well.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Whoever named this coin "Supernova" obviously knew little about astronomy........ The toning pattern and color on this coin are reflective of a Nebula, not a supernova, and reminds me of the Dumbell Nebula:
Will the wannabe astronomer who named this coin please step forward.
OINK
@OldIndianNutKase I was thinking the same thing as you - again! — However, I was considering (M-57) The Ring Nebula which I saw recently at the Texas Star Party👍
You & I are modulating on the the same Frequency & WaveLength!! 😁
M-57 - Ring Nebula
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
"@OldIndianNutKase I was thinking the same thing as you - again! — However, I was thinking about (M-57) The Ring Nebula which I saw recently at the Texas Star Party👍
You & I are modulating on the the same Frequency & WaveLength!! 😁"
@Stuart, perhaps you (or someone so inclined) can go one step further and photoshop it over a $20 double eagle........but I really liked the name Dumbell Nebula (actual name).
Thanks for letting me know!
Sooooo, now is the time for someone on this forum to chime in and accuse my Dumbell Nebula as being AT........
OINK
For the record, I did not name the coin. But it did make the coin easy to remember. Those Neb pics are awesome!
Agree it's easy to remember.
Do we know who named it?
This thread has it all:
1. Controversial coin with some big dogs weighing in and not necessarily agreeing.
2. Spat between Specialist and the Colonel who still like each other (methinks)
3. Astronomy nerds making coin nerds look normal (okay not really)
4. Most importantly, roadrunner weighing in as one of the most unbiased, knowledgeable posters. Please stay longer!
"Look up, old boy, and see what you get." -William Bonney.
I'm actually bored w/the thread. It is meaningless. Lots of chest pounding from people who have never seen the coin.
Me thinks the Col off his meds again. Which pisses me off because the old coot does not share.
Dwight Manley named it-he is the head of the marketing group who owns the coins. I have known him for 20+ years. And he knows his stuff. I was told in person by the chief scientist he personally over saw this coin being pulled up when it was found and that it was never touched. They have all the pics.
I'm off my med to, so I will play in the flame games for a while.
What happened to the @amwldcoin poll? The debate was quite entertaining and was educational for us no-nothings (description from the all-knowings).
I submit to the forum that most of us are not no-nothings and know for sure when they are being fleeced, or at least hyped. Apparently this was contrary to the "all knowings" who have enough power and connections to tell PCGS was speech is "allowed" as their feelings are hurt. Suppression of free speech as I see it.
Sound familiar on the national stage? I won't go there......
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Thanks for the info Laura!
Here are my cell phone images
Thanks for the images @EagleEye.
From your photos, it looks a lot more like the TrueView than the glamour shot below to me.
In hand, do you think it looks like the glamour shot below or more like the TrueView at the bottom.
Glamour Shot
TrueView
I'm thinking he's on his meds, and I'm sure he'd be glad to share.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It probably is!
Don't they frequently color enhance those images to bring out details since they are often taken using light beyond the visible spectrum or even when taken in the visible spectrum?
.
.
As for the Supernova 1857-S $20, I firmly stand on the side of undecided.
Not having seen it in person, I don't know what I would say about it in person. Might like the colors or might not, though suspect I would lean toward like if as strong as the original PCGS article photos. Might think the grade is too high or might agree with it. This is a coin I just can't draw a final conclusion from two dimensional images alone.
Also thought somewhere there were publicly released photos with it visible in a stack of coins on the ocean floor, though not sure.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
Probably the Coolest Gold Photo Ever!!😁👍
S.S. Central America Treasure
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
@EagleEye, my thanks also.
I've studied these pics for at least 30 minutes, and for what my no-nothing input is worth:
1) These pics seem to capture the toning as prettier than previously presented, and the eye appeal appears great also.
2) The discussed/disputed marks appear to all be there, and appear to be prominent.
3) The angle presented, appears to show friction/rub on each side, more friction/rub than I ever could of imagined, and really didn't expect at all.
An EAC'ers biggest beef is typically, very high-end AU coins showing friction/rub, ending up in UNC holders...
...but it happens a lot beyond just copper coins, an expected awful lot, and it means absolutely nothing at the end of the day.
Next!
I can tell you! The net is not neutral anymore and neither is this forum. I thought it was a way to see what the lurkers thought about the coin since it was so controversial! I'm sure most here know who had the thread Poofed!
Edit to add: When it was poofed IMHO it was favoring the supernova coin!
I thought @Broadstruck 's swirling Tidy-Bowl comparison was spot on.
The poll was fine. The title was horsecrapola. I have no idea who got it poofed
I don't think anyone doubted that. The most vocal dissent I saw was that it looked stained or environmentally damaged from salvage metal corroding on top of it.
I don't think PCGS likes supernova threads. There was also a companion thread to this one that went POOF too. This one will be gone soon, but I don't think anyone (regardless of side) will be forgetting this "supernova" anytime soon.
If those are accurate, the color looks less outlandish and garish to me; however, it isn't what I would call a monster worth a five figure premium either. I hope Legend does display it publicly.