Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I'm going to save my comments until AFTER this coin is sold. For now, there are just a few things that matter. Did the coin leave the ocean floor with those colors and was the coin conserved as someone posted. In any case, the coin is considered to be "special." How special will be determined by what it sells for.
Everything else comes down to whether you PERSONALLY agree with the PCGS grade and if you PERSONALLY like the color of the coin. Big hint coming....hold it....**NO ONE who actually matters GIVES A __________ (fill in the blank) about what any of US think.
@RogerB said:
Looks like superficial rust stains. Should come off with proper conservation and stabilization. (See Kagin's Saddle Ridge hoard.)
Coin has already been conserved so those stains are well beyond skin deep.
What makes you think it has been conserved? That color can be easily removed if its new owner wants to make it look like all the other brilliant 1857-S $20.
However, you can pay someone to answer your questions. You might also pay to consult professional metallurgists and museum experts in sea salvage conservation and restoration. [But a little hint: the grunge on the coin in question has very little to do with thin film interference. ** It has a lot to do with your ignorance of the subject.**]
Totally type of comment not needed from someone as you. Leave the "gutter comments" for me to make.
@ElmerFusterpuck said:
Far too many people on this thread are basing their opinion without seeing the coin in hand. That's the equivalent of judging a horse by feeling only the tail while wearing a gauzy blindfold. It doesn't quite work.
For people who think all toning is just ugly tarnish, this coin won't change your mind. But for those that like something a bit different (and can afford it), this coin could be your ticket. I can't imagine any serious bidders for a coin like this relying on only pictures.
I wouldn't call the luster on this coin booming, but it is full and doesn't get dull and flat within the colors."
IMO, the images show the coin good enough to judge if it is attractive or not.
@csdot asked: "if someone wanted it gone, could the stuff (staining, crud, etc) be conserved off by a professional?"
YES
@csdot asked: "Does the holder with the little pinch of gold strike anyone else as a little gimmicky for a coin with a $270,000.00 reserve?"
Yes, but that label is cool. $270K? Yikes! Someone really likes it as is
That raises an interesting poll question for those of us who don't matter: For $270K, would you rather own perhaps the one "best" 1857-S $20 or 18 brilliant 1857-S coins graded MS-65's from the same wreck? This may not be such an obviously simple answer.
Everybody's commenting on the toning...how about the coin. With the hits on her jaw, near her ear and the chatter in front of her face it's really a 67? Not in my book.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
The partner on the Shipwreck deal Dwight Manley told me they found the coin looking exactly like it is. They have the images.
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@AUandAG said:
Everybody's commenting on the toning...how about the coin. With the hits on her jaw, near her ear and the chatter in front of her face it's really a 67? Not in my book.
bob
It's not nice to talk about coins that are being sold. The color gives it a bump. Only the folks who graded it know how much.
@roadrunner said:
If this color were on any non-hoard date $20 Lib showing up raw would that toning be readily accepted by the TPG's and CAC as NT and without any ED?
Not a chance. Imagine some schmoe like me posting that coin as a raw noop.
@dpoole said:
In hand, people. in hand. Among those that have seen it appear to have been duly impressed.
I expect the eventual buyer will have seen it, and will be pleased.
Indeed
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@AUandAG said:
Everybody's commenting on the toning...how about the coin. With the hits on her jaw, near her ear and the chatter in front of her face it's really a 67? Not in my book.
this is a spactacular coin, and im not much for toning - but i like a good example here and there. for all of you naysayers out there (for posters like those that say fools buy shipwreck coins - yes, i read that on this forum), there is definitely added value to the historical, specific nature of it that is appealing.
The end. Love the coin. Cant afford 10% of it.
Oh. And yes, it is overgraded by a long shot. I think this coin would be hard-pressed to even get a 65 without the toning. But, whatever, it's a supernova, right?
I suspect if one were to remove the toning, there would be a lot of contact marks in the fields. There seems to be quite some action underneath. -- and of course the jaw is smashed --
My bad, thought someone wanted comments on this coin.....Only comments on the ugly toning? This is not something that I would ever venture a small fortune on. Yes, the buyer will be someone who has seen it in hand or has had a rep look at it for him/her. Me not worry.
bob
Registry: CC lowballs (boblindstrom), bobinvegas1989@yahoo.com
Having viewed the coin it’s probably overgraded but it looks much better in hand than the pictures. It’s not for everyone, either you’ll like it or probably hate it.
@Insider2 said: @specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin. Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
I’m probably one of those “no nothings” and I’m just commenting on what I saw. I just saw my ophthalmologist and my vision is up to par.
@Insider2 said: @specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin. Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
Again if you haven’t seen this coin in hand you’re just peeing in the wind.
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Insider2 said: @specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin.
Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
Again if you haven’t seen this coin in hand you’re just peeing in the wind.
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
mark
Note to Mark : Some of the "no-nothings" who have not held the coin and are just peeing in the wind are commenting on what they see in the magnified image of the coin. Others are calling its "beautiful color" unattractive stains.
As I wrote previously: It does not matter what the "no-nothings" see or like as this coin is graded by a premier major TPGS, has a CAC sticker, and the folks involved in its sale can pee higher up the wall (except for maybe one) than 99.9% of us even with the wind blowing really hard!
Maybe it wasn't hyped enough. It's not a "supernova" it is truly a galactic superluminous hypernova, a one of a kind wonder that shouldn't even have survived with all the swabbies that went down with the ship to Davy Jones' locker!! Were it not for the extremely able work of advanced recovery equipment, it would still be sitting somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea!
@Insider2 said: @specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin.
Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
Again if you haven’t seen this coin in hand you’re just peeing in the wind.
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
mark
Note to Mark : Some of the "no-nothings" who have not held the coin and are just peeing in the wind are commenting on what they see in the magnified image of the coin. Others are calling its "beautiful color" unattractive stains.
As I wrote previously: It does not matter what the "no-nothings" see or like as this coin is graded by a premier major TPGS, has a CAC sticker, and the folks involved in its sale can pee higher up the wall (except for maybe one) than 99.9% of us even with the wind blowing really hard!
I'm certainly one of those "no nothings" - but I do disagree with the general idea that you must see a coin in hand to know everything about it. Fact is, we have a VERY MAGNIFIED view of the coin. If that view shows flaws, than those flaws exist, even in hand. That is incontrovertible. Yes, I am SURE THE COIN looks more amazing in hand, than in the photos. Certainly, though, it has the clearly shown marks as well.
Perhaps what they really mean is, the marks cant be seen due to the poor vision of the creature holding the coin in hand. And therefore those marks must not exist. :P
But, I do like the coin. If I were buying gold, and it fit into my collection, and I were rich enough - I'd be a bidder for sure.
@ARCO said:
I wonder which is the most valuable aspect of the coin? Is it the coin or that little 67 printed in ink?
I think lots of folks here are undervaluing the verified historical provenance/ story that comes with this coin. That and the color are the value adders in my mind.
@ARCO said:
I wonder which is the most valuable aspect of the coin? Is it the coin or that little 67 printed in ink?
I think lots of folks here are undervaluing the verified historical provenance/ story that comes with this coin. That and the color are the value adders in my mind.
It is definitely a very special piece of numismatic history!
I am another no-nothing here but I saw the coin in hand at Central States and I can't even come up with a word to describe it. If I had the option to own one coin regardless of the price it would be this one.
@Insider2 said: @specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin.
Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
Again if you haven’t seen this coin in hand you’re just peeing in the wind.
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
mark
Note to Mark : Some of the "no-nothings" who have not held the coin and are just peeing in the wind are commenting on what they see in the magnified image of the coin. Others are calling its "beautiful color" unattractive stains.
As I wrote previously: It does not matter what the "no-nothings" see or like as this coin is graded by a premier major TPGS, has a CAC sticker, and the folks involved in its sale can pee higher up the wall (except for maybe one) than 99.9% of us even with the wind blowing really hard!
No nothings ( I would never say that BTW) or experts alike would be all be barking up the wrong tree if they only judged this coin by its online pictures. Trust me on this. And again after seeing it in hand it’s not for everybody.
FWIW these hideous holders of the second shipwreck in general are holding back the values IMO. They are the worst including the box. Amateur hour.
m
@MorganMan94 said:
I am another no-nothing here but I saw the coin in hand at Central States and I can't even come up with a word to describe it. If I had the option to own one coin regardless of the price it would be this one.
I’ve heard several people say this. I’ve heard several people react just the opposite.
It’s pretty unusual to be sure
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Ignorant upwind urinator here so I won't comment on this specific coin. 😉
It sure is a conversation starter coin. Always will be.
I do want to comment on how difficult it is to visualize luster from pics.
I'll never forget the first time I saw 200+ year old MS BN Large Cents in person.
I was stunned at the luster and never could have imagined it cartwheeling like they did.
Amazing.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
we talk about rarity alot----if you want that denomination, that date, that condition, that toning and from a famous shipwreck---well you dont have many choices and it certainly explains the price.
@Justacommeman said:
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
So you're saying that the grade has been color bumped? I have never seen a coin with darker color receive a color bump. Is it brighter in hand?
@ARCO said:
I wonder which is the most valuable aspect of the coin? Is it the coin or that little 67 printed in ink?
I think lots of folks here are undervaluing the verified historical provenance/ story that comes with this coin. That and the color are the value adders in my mind.
Not at all. Everyone agrees that the coin has a great story, provenance, intense collector demand (I owned an AU58 - not from the SS C.A. though).
For me it is the grade, not the color. I don't like the color necessarily, but I really don't like the grade. The coin is not scarce looking at the popultion numbers. When I see a big gash (or is that a lovely die crack?) above Liberty's eye like she was in a bar fight, facial nicks and ticks, I think MS65, not 67.
So when I ask it is the coin or the ink. For me the coin has value, but it is the ink that gives it 90% of its percieved value. PCGS was thrown a big bone in grading the stash. They threw a few bones back to the submitters.
It is my money and my opinion only. Collectors buy all sorts of things other collectors gasp at. If the buyer loves his/her coin, that is all that matters.
@Justacommeman said:
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
So you're saying that the grade has been color bumped? I have never seen a coin with darker color receive a color bump. Is it brighter in hand?
@ARCO said:
I wonder which is the most valuable aspect of the coin? Is it the coin or that little 67 printed in ink?
Your argument being, if it were graded 65, then the toning wouldnt bring the same money.
could be correct. could be wrong. We could test it. whoever buys it should have it regraded as a 65, and then do the whole auction re-do event to find out
@Justacommeman said:
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
So you're saying that the grade has been color bumped? I have never seen a coin with darker color receive a color bump. Is it brighter in hand?
What about "rainbow, Cameo Morgans?
I never said color bumps didn't exist. I'm saying that color bumps are usually reserved for superior coins - those that EVERYONE tends to agree are eye appealing and not controversial pieces. I understand that gold is a different animal, but even as such, I would be surprised (if the coin is that dark) for it to have received a color bump rather than a bump for any number of other reasons including its pedigree. That's not slamming the color or coin per se, but I would call the color neutral at best. YMMV.
How close are the pictures that other posters have taken?
Comments
@ 250k + all in as of now
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Is the reserve still @ 270k?
8 Reales Madness Collection
@ 250k + all in as of now
m> @TwoKopeiki said:
No sir.
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I guess it may be better than the SMS 1964 50c!
Well, just Love coins, period.
I'm going to save my comments until AFTER this coin is sold. For now, there are just a few things that matter. Did the coin leave the ocean floor with those colors and was the coin conserved as someone posted. In any case, the coin is considered to be "special." How special will be determined by what it sells for.
Everything else comes down to whether you PERSONALLY agree with the PCGS grade and if you PERSONALLY like the color of the coin. Big hint coming....hold it....**NO ONE who actually matters GIVES A __________ (fill in the blank) about what any of US think.
What makes you think it has been conserved? That color can be easily removed if its new owner wants to make it look like all the other brilliant 1857-S $20.
Totally type of comment not needed from someone as you. Leave the "gutter comments" for me to make.
IMO, the images show the coin good enough to judge if it is attractive or not.
@csdot asked: "if someone wanted it gone, could the stuff (staining, crud, etc) be conserved off by a professional?"
YES
@csdot asked: "Does the holder with the little pinch of gold strike anyone else as a little gimmicky for a coin with a $270,000.00 reserve?"
Yes, but that label is cool. $270K? Yikes! Someone really likes it as is
That raises an interesting poll question for those of us who don't matter: For $270K, would you rather own perhaps the one "best" 1857-S $20 or 18 brilliant 1857-S coins graded MS-65's from the same wreck? This may not be such an obviously simple answer.
I wouldn't buy it because the CAC sticker is off-center. No other reason.
Given that certain dealers have practically opined that the sticker is what matters anyway, I can understand the desire for having a flawless sticker.
Everybody's commenting on the toning...how about the coin. With the hits on her jaw, near her ear and the chatter in front of her face it's really a 67? Not in my book.
bob
Again
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
It's not nice to talk about coins that are being sold. The color gives it a bump. Only the folks who graded it know how much.
Indeed. You get yourself and extra $1290 or so in additional precious metals too.
If this color were on any non-hoard date $20 Lib showing up raw would that toning be readily accepted by the TPG's and CAC as NT and without any ED?
In hand, people. in hand. Among those that have seen it appear to have been duly impressed.
I expect the eventual buyer will have seen it, and will be pleased.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Not a chance. Imagine some schmoe like me posting that coin as a raw noop.
Indeed
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
But it stickered...
this is a spactacular coin, and im not much for toning - but i like a good example here and there. for all of you naysayers out there (for posters like those that say fools buy shipwreck coins - yes, i read that on this forum), there is definitely added value to the historical, specific nature of it that is appealing.
The end. Love the coin. Cant afford 10% of it.
Oh. And yes, it is overgraded by a long shot. I think this coin would be hard-pressed to even get a 65 without the toning. But, whatever, it's a supernova, right?
I suspect if one were to remove the toning, there would be a lot of contact marks in the fields. There seems to be quite some action underneath. -- and of course the jaw is smashed --
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I wonder which is the most valuable aspect of the coin? Is it the coin or that little 67 printed in ink?
the coin. It will sell for a HUGE markup because of the toning. that was a super easy question to answer.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
My bad, thought someone wanted comments on this coin.....Only comments on the ugly toning? This is not something that I would ever venture a small fortune on. Yes, the buyer will be someone who has seen it in hand or has had a rep look at it for him/her. Me not worry.
bob
Yeah...no.
Having viewed the coin it’s probably overgraded but it looks much better in hand than the pictures. It’s not for everyone, either you’ll like it or probably hate it.
The hype.
Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people.
Yes, the reserve was taken down when we realized there were several players on it and spoke to the owner. We do not do fixed price sales
@specialist said: "Love the no nothings who comment. I don't think the people who have placed bids agree-and they are not dumb people."
Some of the "no-nothings" are just commenting on what they see on the coin. Others will wait until it's sold. I hope it sets a record for you.
I’m probably one of those “no nothings” and I’m just commenting on what I saw. I just saw my ophthalmologist and my vision is up to par.
Again if you haven’t seen this coin in hand you’re just peeing in the wind.
This wouldn’t be the first time a coin has been bumped due to color and in this case the color highlights and not hides any imperfections. ( which 67’s are allowed to have).
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Note to Mark
: Some of the "no-nothings" who have not held the coin and are just peeing in the wind are commenting on what they see in the magnified image of the coin. Others are calling its "beautiful color" unattractive stains.
As I wrote previously: It does not matter what the "no-nothings" see or like as this coin is graded by a premier major TPGS, has a CAC sticker, and the folks involved in its sale can pee higher up the wall (except for maybe one) than 99.9% of us even with the wind blowing really hard!
Maybe it wasn't hyped enough. It's not a "supernova" it is truly a galactic superluminous hypernova, a one of a kind wonder that shouldn't even have survived with all the swabbies that went down with the ship to Davy Jones' locker!! Were it not for the extremely able work of advanced recovery equipment, it would still be sitting somewhere between the devil and the deep blue sea!
I'm certainly one of those "no nothings" - but I do disagree with the general idea that you must see a coin in hand to know everything about it. Fact is, we have a VERY MAGNIFIED view of the coin. If that view shows flaws, than those flaws exist, even in hand. That is incontrovertible. Yes, I am SURE THE COIN looks more amazing in hand, than in the photos. Certainly, though, it has the clearly shown marks as well.
Perhaps what they really mean is, the marks cant be seen due to the poor vision of the creature holding the coin in hand. And therefore those marks must not exist. :P
But, I do like the coin. If I were buying gold, and it fit into my collection, and I were rich enough - I'd be a bidder for sure.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I think lots of folks here are undervaluing the verified historical provenance/ story that comes with this coin. That and the color are the value adders in my mind.
It is definitely a very special piece of numismatic history!
I am another no-nothing here but I saw the coin in hand at Central States and I can't even come up with a word to describe it. If I had the option to own one coin regardless of the price it would be this one.
No nothings ( I would never say that BTW) or experts alike would be all be barking up the wrong tree if they only judged this coin by its online pictures. Trust me on this. And again after seeing it in hand it’s not for everybody.
FWIW these hideous holders of the second shipwreck in general are holding back the values IMO. They are the worst including the box. Amateur hour.
m
I’ve heard several people say this. I’ve heard several people react just the opposite.
It’s pretty unusual to be sure
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I can't think of a single person on this forum who has that mind-set!!!!
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
Ignorant upwind urinator here so I won't comment on this specific coin. 😉
It sure is a conversation starter coin. Always will be.
I do want to comment on how difficult it is to visualize luster from pics.
I'll never forget the first time I saw 200+ year old MS BN Large Cents in person.
I was stunned at the luster and never could have imagined it cartwheeling like they did.
Amazing.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
we talk about rarity alot----if you want that denomination, that date, that condition, that toning and from a famous shipwreck---well you dont have many choices and it certainly explains the price.
I'm aligned most closely with @Zoins.
If I was a potential bidder, I would have to see the coin in person, and it would also require better images.
The lack of killer images would continually haunt me, keep me up at night, etc.
Pissing in the wind gives you a 75% success rate. Its pissing into the sky lying on your back that you have to watch avoid.
What is a "no nothing?"
So you're saying that the grade has been color bumped? I have never seen a coin with darker color receive a color bump. Is it brighter in hand?
they are everything? or did i not grammar that correctly?
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
Someone who knows nothing. I'm a "no-nothing." I now nothing about brain surgery, hockey, rap music, and er...women.
Not at all. Everyone agrees that the coin has a great story, provenance, intense collector demand (I owned an AU58 - not from the SS C.A. though).
For me it is the grade, not the color. I don't like the color necessarily, but I really don't like the grade. The coin is not scarce looking at the popultion numbers. When I see a big gash (or is that a lovely die crack?) above Liberty's eye like she was in a bar fight, facial nicks and ticks, I think MS65, not 67.
So when I ask it is the coin or the ink. For me the coin has value, but it is the ink that gives it 90% of its percieved value. PCGS was thrown a big bone in grading the stash. They threw a few bones back to the submitters.
It is my money and my opinion only. Collectors buy all sorts of things other collectors gasp at. If the buyer loves his/her coin, that is all that matters.
What about "rainbow, Cameo Morgans?
Your argument being, if it were graded 65, then the toning wouldnt bring the same money.
could be correct. could be wrong. We could test it. whoever buys it should have it regraded as a 65, and then do the whole auction re-do event to find out
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
I never said color bumps didn't exist. I'm saying that color bumps are usually reserved for superior coins - those that EVERYONE tends to agree are eye appealing and not controversial pieces. I understand that gold is a different animal, but even as such, I would be surprised (if the coin is that dark) for it to have received a color bump rather than a bump for any number of other reasons including its pedigree. That's not slamming the color or coin per se, but I would call the color neutral at best. YMMV.
How close are the pictures that other posters have taken?
A "Know Nothing" was a member of the Native American Political Party which ceased to exist in 1860.
Daniel Day Lewis in the movie The Gangs of New York was portrayed as the leader of the Native American Party as Bill the Butcher.
will this coin be at legends table in baltimore next week?
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be