I'll look on the bright side...between sour grapes returns from flippers...to sets damaged in shipping, returned and nixed...I'm thinking that this set's already reasonably modest 225,000 mintage will only shrink.
I predict that once the smoke clears that it's price will grow in a stealth fashion over time. Patience might pay off in the end.
@CCC2010 said:
So if i ordered a 100 shirts and 20 of them have lose threads and the corners are coming apart. Should i just return the 20 and not the entire box of 100...so who is to say that the quality of the other 80 will not follow the 20 that just happened to have those defects? What if the my customers purchased the 80 and later on they would come apart like the other 20 in say a week or two or three . Then what about my business reputation?
I'm going to guess it is the plastic lenses and the paper boxes that are being damaged in transit. There is also a threat to the coins from any crushing plastic bits on the coins.
The coins, boxes and lenses are likely not to follow a decay pattern described above.
From what is being described on this thread, the Mint has these in boxes of 38 from the assembly line. People who order large enough quantities where those boxes of 38 are sent will most likely have damage since those boxes of 38 have no padding.
Also, from other threads and my own experience, the shipping department the mint hired is using a LOT less packing material and absolutely larger boxes than necessary. This has led to some items' packaging being damaged in transit. Most of my orders recently have arrived with damaged OGP, and there was one ASE with the sleeve off, the box open, the velvet case out and all four parts (box lid + bottom = 2) sliding around loosely in the shipping box. I could see how it is possible a set or two may arrive with beat up paper boxes, but it is unlikely they will hit anywhere close to and average of 1 damaged lens per order under 10 sets as I recently order a bunch of proof and silver proof sets ... in a box too big ... and with far too little packing.... and none were in any worse condition than in the years past.
I will reiterate one concern I have, the returns from being damaged ... will they be repackaged or simply resold and are those going to show up as inventory or as backordered?
Needless to say, me being cautious in the face of bureaucracy, I'd rather they be taken out of inventory and have orders go to backordered. I'd hate to think of 10,000 sets accidentally being kept in inventory and sold without at least the red flag of "why do we have this when it is more than inventory and it is backordered?"
I hope the numispress asks about what the mint will do with all the damaged items? do they have that much extra, since this seems like an exceptional case of damaged in transit to the ANA?
@CCC2010 said:
So if i ordered a 100 shirts and 20 of them have lose threads and the corners are coming apart. Should i just return the 20 and not the entire box of 100...so who is to say that the quality of the other 80 will not follow the 20 that just happened to have those defects? What if the my customers purchased the 80 and later on they would come apart like the other 20 in say a week or two or three . Then what about my business reputation?
Are you really comparing shirts with a manufacturing defect to coin sets that were damaged in transit?
@MsMorrisine said:
I will reiterate one concern I have, the returns from being damaged ... will they be repackaged or simply resold and are those going to show up as inventory or as backordered?
Needless to say, me being cautious in the face of bureaucracy, I'd rather they be taken out of inventory and have orders go to backordered. I'd hate to think of 10,000 sets accidentally being kept in inventory and sold without at least the red flag of "why do we have this when it is more than inventory and it is backordered?"
I hope the numispress asks about what the mint will do with all the damaged items? do they have that much extra, since this seems like an exceptional case of damaged in transit to the ANA?
It was pretty much confirmed with the overselling of the gold Baseball Commems that the mint over-produces a product with the intention of using them to replace returned/damaged product. So they don't resell returned product, it is replaced.
I'm still waiting to see what the fake sellout was all about. If it was because 20,000 in sales for $600,000 then maybe management needs to review orders of $500,000 or more, still a major fail for the mint.
Really, anyone can call up and order Half million dollars of product, no questions asked.
My suspicion is that these WERE a sellout...but that some flippers got cold feet when the aftermarket price didn't instantly hit $100 or more...and hit the cancel button...or are returning them now.
But as a long term collector...I don't care...and those who have complained in the past re immediate sellouts, should also be pleased with this rather unique situation. Personally, I hope the final numbers come in below 200,000.
20,000 from 1 dealer cancellation
I'm guessing returns from dealers at ANA who didn't sell all their raw sets
then there is the unknown of what they will do with the unusual number of damaged sets.
then there are the returns from failed flips.
all of this will keep this issue on sale for at least a couple of weeks
Guys, the deal is, there is no flip on 17XC, gathering sets for future sales is a ROI that ain't worth the risk,
The USmint, about four years ago, stopped speculative purchases with a max quantity purchase requirement on relatively low mintages, now it's an unlimited qty requirement on a large mintage.
The Congratulations sets were a terrific flip just recently. Many sold for nearly 3x purchase price so the flip opportunities are still there, just not as frequent.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The U.S. Mint April 4 ended sales of the limited-edition 2017 Congratulations set within two minutes of its becoming available, triggering a backlash from disgruntled collectors shut out from obtaining one of the 75,000 sets.
75,000 silver proof vs. 225K clad. I rest my case.
@epcjimi1 said:
The U.S. Mint April 4 ended sales of the limited-edition 2017 Congratulations set within two minutes of its becoming available, triggering a backlash from disgruntled collectors shut out from obtaining one of the 75,000 sets.
75,000 silver proof vs. 225K clad. I rest my case.
What case? You stated the Mint stopped offering viable flip opportunities four years ago and I pointed out that statement was incorrect.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@epcjimi1 said:
The U.S. Mint April 4 ended sales of the limited-edition 2017 Congratulations set within two minutes of its becoming available, triggering a backlash from disgruntled collectors shut out from obtaining one of the 75,000 sets.
75,000 silver proof vs. 225K clad. I rest my case.
What case? You stated the Mint stopped offering viable flip opportunities four years ago and I pointed out that statement was incorrect.
uhh, no, this thread is for 225K, your example is for for 75k, apples apples, oranges oranges, good stretch, nice try, besides, there has not been a killer mint flip since 2010. Who wants to mess with 10 bucks. USMint flip done and over with. Forever
Your statement was not specific to this particular item but a general statement about flip opportunities from the Mint in general as of four years ago.
If you want to revise that now and have it apply exclusively to this specific offering, then, yes, I agree with you, but that's not how you first phrased it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
If you want to revise that now and have it apply exclusively to this specific offering, then, yes, I agree with you, but that's not how you first phrased it.
OH FOR CHRIST^^ SAKE. PHRASE THIS: LOLOLOLOL
Buy a bunch of these, I implore, beg you,, do it now.
If you want to revise that now and have it apply exclusively to this specific offering, then, yes, I agree with you, but that's not how you first phrased it.
OH FOR CHRIST^^ SAKE. PHRASE THIS: LOLOLOLOL
Buy a bunch of these, I implore, beg you,, do it now.
I will get my CC ready, LOLOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
4:25 still avail. I did order 5 sets in the first 15 sec. online.I don't see much of a downside,at $3 per coin in the set . Grading the Half,the $ and the cent most likely.
Sometimes commemoratives that were a flop initially, because of lack of interest only a small amt were sold and the rest destroyed. Those ended up being sleepers.
I will build one best set out of the 5 and send those out hoping for a 70
Very nice indeed. I'm liking these at first sight.
Selected lettering on the obverse is shiny, the rest is matte.
Reverse is the same but the dollar and quarters have a shiny ring around the main scene.
Packaging is in the style of the other 225th being black with silver lettering. The shipping box has brown paper padding.
I just received my two sets. Thankfully just two. I'm not impressed with the cent, nickel, dime, and half. There's not enough contrast as in the dollar and fours quarters. I wish the Mint had 'enhanced' them a little more. The quarters look great though.
@Rich49 said:
Sometimes commemoratives that were a flop initially, because of lack of interest only a small amt were sold and the rest destroyed. Those ended up being sleepers.
Flip or no flip, I think this set has a bright future. To take just one example, the 2017-S cent has less than half the mintage of the 1909-S VDB. While it is unlikely to become a $5,000 coin, I can certainly see it becoming a $50 one.
The 1997 Jackie Robinson was available from the Mint for several months. Ditto the 1995-W proof Silver Eagle. They were never "flips", and prices on both didn't reach their peaks until years later.
Very nice indeed. I'm liking these at first sight.
Selected lettering on the obverse is shiny, the rest is matte.
Reverse is the same but the dollar and quarters have a shiny ring around the main scene.
Packaging is in the style of the other 225th being black with silver lettering. The shipping box has brown paper padding.
How many did you order?
How bubbly is the plating on the cents, if bubbles can be discerned ?
No bubbling on the cent I can see. Smooth, even matte finish on both sides. I'm assuming it's easy to spot if there are bubbles. Any photos of it anywhere?
How bubbly is the plating on the cents, if bubbles can be discerned ?
Just realized in the other thread I never answered this. On the (4) cents I have, ZERO bubbling at all. For all the problems I see, bubbling is not among them thankfully, at least on the examples I have.
Yeah, I don't see any of that on the cent. That looks real bad though. I'd be pissed
edited to add a copy of post in the Review thread;
One tiny rim nick on the inner edge over the U in Trust, obverse, with 7x loop is my only gripe with the cent. Would probably keep it out of 70 if I was going to have the set slabbed. But I'm not and wasn't planning to.
perhaps there needs to be a new designation. Bubble Free: SP70RDBF
I do wonder now if there is a decay issue with the cents. I wonder if a bubble could appear after some time.
That cents are showing up bubble free is somewhat exciting. It is the prospect this is the first zincoln "proof or sp" that might regularly come in BF condition.
Last night the HSH Coin Collectors show the had ANACS EU70 sets with a Denver ANA Label and a wooden box for $349.99. I hope the wooden box is worth a lot.
The host said they purchased 30,000 sets for sale on the show. I wonder how many of these sets will find there way to the Internet and TV guys for dispersal outside the hobby. And if that will add some stability to the price of these sets.
@ECHOES said:
First order due today, will post pics when they arrive.
I took a few quick and dirty shots. Didn't have the right lighting, and the photos don't do them justice. You really need to tilt them around in the light to see the frosting effect and the shiny devices...
I only took the interesting ones. Not gonna do all 16 surfaces.
I'll use my Cell phone, pics will not be as good as those you posted.
They are beautiful pic's / coins.
Thanks for posting.> @BackroadJunkie
(Not my pic)
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Comments
I'll look on the bright side...between sour grapes returns from flippers...to sets damaged in shipping, returned and nixed...I'm thinking that this set's already reasonably modest 225,000 mintage will only shrink.
I predict that once the smoke clears that it's price will grow in a stealth fashion over time. Patience might pay off in the end.
People are selling unopened boxed of these, some of the buyers are going to be in for a surprise.
I'm going to guess it is the plastic lenses and the paper boxes that are being damaged in transit. There is also a threat to the coins from any crushing plastic bits on the coins.
The coins, boxes and lenses are likely not to follow a decay pattern described above.
From what is being described on this thread, the Mint has these in boxes of 38 from the assembly line. People who order large enough quantities where those boxes of 38 are sent will most likely have damage since those boxes of 38 have no padding.
Also, from other threads and my own experience, the shipping department the mint hired is using a LOT less packing material and absolutely larger boxes than necessary. This has led to some items' packaging being damaged in transit. Most of my orders recently have arrived with damaged OGP, and there was one ASE with the sleeve off, the box open, the velvet case out and all four parts (box lid + bottom = 2) sliding around loosely in the shipping box. I could see how it is possible a set or two may arrive with beat up paper boxes, but it is unlikely they will hit anywhere close to and average of 1 damaged lens per order under 10 sets as I recently order a bunch of proof and silver proof sets ... in a box too big ... and with far too little packing.... and none were in any worse condition than in the years past.
I will reiterate one concern I have, the returns from being damaged ... will they be repackaged or simply resold and are those going to show up as inventory or as backordered?
Needless to say, me being cautious in the face of bureaucracy, I'd rather they be taken out of inventory and have orders go to backordered. I'd hate to think of 10,000 sets accidentally being kept in inventory and sold without at least the red flag of "why do we have this when it is more than inventory and it is backordered?"
I hope the numispress asks about what the mint will do with all the damaged items? do they have that much extra, since this seems like an exceptional case of damaged in transit to the ANA?
Holy cow! Two sets (one package) just got delivered. My other order is still being transferred to the PO from FedEx.
Four days is a flippin' record for Smartpost.
One set is okay, the other has a funky obverse on the cent. Don't know what's happening there yet.
I'll get pictures up when I get time...
Were you responding to me? (You need to quote who you're responding to.)
And lol, I'm not that far into numismatics that I associate owners of coin stores to the person who own's it.
I wanted to know if they bought 4,000 sets, or just witnessed someone else buying 4,000 sets, and what were they going to do with them...
Are you really comparing shirts with a manufacturing defect to coin sets that were damaged in transit?
Tomayto, Tomahto
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
It was pretty much confirmed with the overselling of the gold Baseball Commems that the mint over-produces a product with the intention of using them to replace returned/damaged product. So they don't resell returned product, it is replaced.
I'm still waiting to see what the fake sellout was all about. If it was because 20,000 in sales for $600,000 then maybe management needs to review orders of $500,000 or more, still a major fail for the mint.
Really, anyone can call up and order Half million dollars of product, no questions asked.
My suspicion is that these WERE a sellout...but that some flippers got cold feet when the aftermarket price didn't instantly hit $100 or more...and hit the cancel button...or are returning them now.
But as a long term collector...I don't care...and those who have complained in the past re immediate sellouts, should also be pleased with this rather unique situation. Personally, I hope the final numbers come in below 200,000.
20,000 from 1 dealer cancellation
I'm guessing returns from dealers at ANA who didn't sell all their raw sets
then there is the unknown of what they will do with the unusual number of damaged sets.
then there are the returns from failed flips.
all of this will keep this issue on sale for at least a couple of weeks
Guys, the deal is, there is no flip on 17XC, gathering sets for future sales is a ROI that ain't worth the risk,
The USmint, about four years ago, stopped speculative purchases with a max quantity purchase requirement on relatively low mintages, now it's an unlimited qty requirement on a large mintage.
You are getting played by the USMint. MHO.
The Congratulations sets were a terrific flip just recently. Many sold for nearly 3x purchase price so the flip opportunities are still there, just not as frequent.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The U.S. Mint April 4 ended sales of the limited-edition 2017 Congratulations set within two minutes of its becoming available, triggering a backlash from disgruntled collectors shut out from obtaining one of the 75,000 sets.
75,000 silver proof vs. 225K clad. I rest my case.
What case? You stated the Mint stopped offering viable flip opportunities four years ago and I pointed out that statement was incorrect.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
uhh, no, this thread is for 225K, your example is for for 75k, apples apples, oranges oranges, good stretch, nice try, besides, there has not been a killer mint flip since 2010. Who wants to mess with 10 bucks. USMint flip done and over with. Forever
Tell ya what, buy a bunch of these,
LOLOL
Your statement was not specific to this particular item but a general statement about flip opportunities from the Mint in general as of four years ago.
If you want to revise that now and have it apply exclusively to this specific offering, then, yes, I agree with you, but that's not how you first phrased it.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
OH FOR CHRIST^^ SAKE. PHRASE THIS: LOLOLOLOL
Buy a bunch of these, I implore, beg you,, do it now.
I will get my CC ready, LOLOL..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
4:25 still avail. I did order 5 sets in the first 15 sec. online.I don't see much of a downside,at $3 per coin in the set . Grading the Half,the $ and the cent most likely.
Sometimes commemoratives that were a flop initially, because of lack of interest only a small amt were sold and the rest destroyed. Those ended up being sleepers.
I will build one best set out of the 5 and send those out hoping for a 70
let me know if the plating bubbles are readily discernable from "the finish"
and
if there is significant bubbling on any of your 5
Oh my!
The sets I ordered came today. They look pretty cool
Just delivered.
Very nice indeed. I'm liking these at first sight.
Selected lettering on the obverse is shiny, the rest is matte.
Reverse is the same but the dollar and quarters have a shiny ring around the main scene.
Packaging is in the style of the other 225th being black with silver lettering. The shipping box has brown paper padding.
I just received my two sets. Thankfully just two. I'm not impressed with the cent, nickel, dime, and half. There's not enough contrast as in the dollar and fours quarters. I wish the Mint had 'enhanced' them a little more. The quarters look great though.
I had thought the "sellout" was simply a sellout of Day 1 inventory, the rest was speculation.
Tracking shows 'Status Not Available'
Both Orders...
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Mine due Weds. 9th.I would like to see some real images when anyone has them.
Hi Rich49! I've pics posted in this thread from earlier today -
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/985203/225th-anniversary-enhanced-uncirculated-set-a-review-of-coins-in-hand-pics-added#latest
Hope that helps!
Flip or no flip, I think this set has a bright future. To take just one example, the 2017-S cent has less than half the mintage of the 1909-S VDB. While it is unlikely to become a $5,000 coin, I can certainly see it becoming a $50 one.
The 1997 Jackie Robinson was available from the Mint for several months. Ditto the 1995-W proof Silver Eagle. They were never "flips", and prices on both didn't reach their peaks until years later.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
How many did you order?
How bubbly is the plating on the cents, if bubbles can be discerned ?
I ordered only one.
No bubbling on the cent I can see. Smooth, even matte finish on both sides. I'm assuming it's easy to spot if there are bubbles. Any photos of it anywhere?
That's a mild case.
Here is a bad case
I purchased a box of 38 sets at ANA today. Great looking design. I think they will be popular!
Just realized in the other thread I never answered this. On the (4) cents I have, ZERO bubbling at all. For all the problems I see, bubbling is not among them thankfully, at least on the examples I have.
Yeah, I don't see any of that on the cent. That looks real bad though. I'd be pissed
edited to add a copy of post in the Review thread;
One tiny rim nick on the inner edge over the U in Trust, obverse, with 7x loop is my only gripe with the cent. Would probably keep it out of 70 if I was going to have the set slabbed. But I'm not and wasn't planning to.
still going.
perhaps there needs to be a new designation. Bubble Free: SP70RDBF
I do wonder now if there is a decay issue with the cents. I wonder if a bubble could appear after some time.
That cents are showing up bubble free is somewhat exciting. It is the prospect this is the first zincoln "proof or sp" that might regularly come in BF condition.
Last night the HSH Coin Collectors show the had ANACS EU70 sets with a Denver ANA Label and a wooden box for $349.99. I hope the wooden box is worth a lot.
The host said they purchased 30,000 sets for sale on the show. I wonder how many of these sets will find there way to the Internet and TV guys for dispersal outside the hobby. And if that will add some stability to the price of these sets.
Still available from US Mint,
Never saw this happening with this issue.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Decided to get a couple sets.
Everything is all right!
First order due today, will post pics when they arrive.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
I took a few quick and dirty shots. Didn't have the right lighting, and the photos don't do them justice. You really need to tilt them around in the light to see the frosting effect and the shiny devices...
I only took the interesting ones. Not gonna do all 16 surfaces.
The garbage at 7:00 isn't on the coin...
The quarters benefited the most. Someone here said it, they should have done the ATB pucks like this.
And no, I didn't resize this one correctly. Maybe later...
Ignore the lint. This is the consequence when you take the pictures on a terrycloth towel...
I'll use my Cell phone, pics will not be as good as those you posted.
They are beautiful pic's / coins.
Thanks for posting.> @BackroadJunkie
(Not my pic)
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Thanks for the pix guys. I am more than satisfied with this enhancement result. IMHO this set is the best use of it by the mint so far.
a zincoln without bubbles is a spike the football moment, too.
I bet the first pcgs SP-70 DMPL sells for over 1,000
I don't think a lot of people know these went back on sale