<< <i>We still believe in the ANA! With the right board of governors voted in the ANA can again be an organization that has so much potential. Don't give up on the ANA use your voting power to vote in the right board of governors. There are so many good new candidates, choose them.
Cecilia (for) >>
Amen Jeff and Cecilia!
Sincerely,
Stewart Huckaby mailto:stewarth@HA.com ------------------------------------------ Heritage Auctions Heritage Auctions
My personal opinion is that the new Exec Director may have been right in the middle of all the dysfunction at the ANA. I think their may still be some problems down the road, and the ANA may again be looking to fill the position in the not-to-faraway future.
<< <i>What if ... just what if ... JS was not competent as the Executive Director (which doesn't mean his is a "bad" person)? Too many people equate "likeability" or "technical expertise" as equivalent to leadership ability. Just because somebody is a great numismatist does not mean they can lead the ANA.
Just to be clear ... I have no idea of the reason(s) for the non-renewal. I wish Jeff the best as all of my interactions with him in the past support him being a kind, generous man who cares deeply about the hobby. >>
I think at least 25 years in a Management roll managing 140 employees, taking many leadership courses and teaching leadership courses qualifies Jeff as the Executive Director for the ANA with just 35 employees. Jeff was also a college instructor teaching advanced information technology courses. He retired from both careers at the same time last year in order to take the appointment of ED at the ANA. He is also a seasoned numismatist, well known as an expert on So-Called Dollars and many other coins, this combination made him perfect for the Executive Director roll. Politics is what got in the way. A few board members with their own agendas, a few staff with their own agendas. The membership of the ANA that knew Jeff were very excited to have "one of their own" as ED. The membership that he came across at his presentations that got a chance to listen to his plans for the ANA also were very excited. I will try to post a link to one of his presentation soon (if I can figure out how). Jeff will probably know how but he is always so busy, that is why I decided to get on here and speak for him. You may be able to google Utube videos and find some of his presentations also if interested in finding out.
I think at least 25 years in a Management roll managing 140 employees, taking many leadership courses and teaching leadership courses qualifies Jeff as the Executive Director for the ANA with just 35 employees. Jeff was also a college instructor teaching advanced information technology courses. He retired from both careers at the same time last year in order to take the appointment of ED at the ANA. He is also a seasoned numismatist, well known as an expert on So-Called Dollars and many other coins, this combination made him perfect for the Executive Director roll.
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
My hope is those elected learn the art of cohesively working together, instead of creating greater drama when solution is applied to a more severe internal problem. It seems to me we need to sweep under the rug once in a while. This serves most organizations well.
<< <i>I think at least 25 years in a Management roll managing 140 employees, taking many leadership courses and teaching leadership courses qualifies Jeff as the Executive Director for the ANA with just 35 employees. Jeff was also a college instructor teaching advanced information technology courses. He retired from both careers at the same time last year in order to take the appointment of ED at the ANA. He is also a seasoned numismatist, well known as an expert on So-Called Dollars and many other coins, this combination made him perfect for the Executive Director roll.
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds. >>
<< <i>My hope is those elected learn the art of cohesively working together, instead of creating greater drama when solution is applied to a more severe internal problem. It seems to me we need to sweep under the rug once in a while. This serves most organizations well. >>
There isn't going to be working together and cohesion this go round. Change, it is a comin....
I keep rubbing my forehead when I keep thinking that after all these ED issues we have been reading about, the board installed yet another ED instead of making her ACTING Director.
But then again, the past two ED have been all but ACTING ED anyway?
Employees can become more emboldened and resistant to change when there is turmoil at the top. This must also be looked at as well.
I'm looking forward to hearing the election results on the afternoon of July 3rd. Then I'm very interested to hear the current ANA board's official comments responding to the allegations made in the Larry Shepperd lawsuit. I too agree that given the apparent situation, Kim should not have been made ED at this time, but, at best, be named acting ED for awhile, the position she apparently held during the transition between Larry and Jeff. Interestingly, I don't recall her being formally named at that time. Anyone remember if the board formally made her acting ED then? Steve
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds. >>
Yes, just a FEW of them did but that is when the "dysfunction" started happening. As I said before, 6 out of 9 board members told Jeff that he was doing a "great to good" job when he called them just a week before being terminated. Two of them changed their mind in that week. It just does not add up!
<< <i>I too agree that given the apparent situation, Kim should not have been made ED at this time >>
Unfortunately I, too, have arrived at this conclusion.
It seems that somewhere along the way, some high-level ANA employees figured out how to get their boss fired. Twice. It does matter HOW someone gets the top job. Et tu, Brute?
I voted for two incumbent governors. At this point, if I had my ballot back, I would vote for an entirely clean slate.
the continuing saga of the ANA makes me think of the Firesign Theater, Were All Bozos on this Bus.
The board should be replaced for being inept. Hire someone skilled and let them do their job. Have clear goals and parameters and do not listen to staff for the first year at least.
Retired United States Mint guy, now working on an Everyman Type Set.
<< <i>the continuing saga of the ANA makes me think of the Firesign Theater, Were All Bozos on this Bus.
The board should be replaced for being inept. Hire someone skilled and let them do their job. Have clear goals and parameters and do not listen to staff for the first year at least. >>
This is part of the problem, Jeff's tenure was cut way to short to even have been given a chance to be effective. Common sense says give him a year or two and then review unless something criminal or negligent was done and that is not the case here.
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Whose fault is that?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Nobody else's fault except the board's. Disagree with the above statement? Then prove your side of argument now because so far it's not looking too good.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Yes, Greg. Most of us including me only know "one side of the story" on BOTH Larry and Jeff. The assumption we have, based on what you've said on this coin forum, is that we will eventually learn the other side of the story. That is the story the ANA board has to tell. I really DO hope that that story gets laid out in as much detail as reasonably possible. Larry has already stated his case. And Jeff and his wife have already been on this coin forum 25 times, mostly in the past three weeks trying to tell their side of the story. Somehow, someway the leaders of the ANA need to open up this discussion to their membership. The current President might be an excellent choice to say something meaningful. After all, he LIVES in the Colorado Springs area and I'm sure has spent significant time at headquarters in the past two years. The organization NEEDS a cleansing and it will get it one way or another when the problems that exist are aired in public. Since you are the ONLY board member who has had the guts to be here and post 282 times in the past 2+ years, it would be nice if the board authorized you to also tell "the other side of the story". JMHO. Steve
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Yes I do but if I didn’t have to give any odds, I would bet on Jeff Shevlin winning if he took this and litigated the improper termination in court which I hope he does. The Board of Governors needs to learn a lesson even if it cost the A.N.A. for such lesson and hopefully they will learn the difference between Compensatory Damages and Punitive Damages.
Regardless of Colorado law, the willful violation of the A.N.A.’s own Bylaws is a benchmark that the Board of Governors is going to have a hard time getting over. Any competent attorney should have advised the Board of Governors of this.
On the bright side, if the Board of Governors was acting on advice of counsel then they can always take her malpractice insurance out for a test ride.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg, Please don't try to make people think that Jeff did something wrong!!! You know that he did nothing wrong! In all fairness to you, I would not expect you to give details of anything because of the ANA by-laws. But in fairness to Jeff, do not get on here and put something in peoples minds that did not happen. We are telling the COMPLETE truth! Please do not venture off the deep end.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg, Please don't try to make people think that Jeff did something wrong!!! You know that he did nothing wrong! In all fairness to you, I would not expect you to give details of anything because of the ANA by-laws. But in fairness to Jeff, do not get on here and put something in peoples minds that did not happen. We are telling the COMPLETE truth! Please do not venture off the deep end.
Cecilia (for) >>
Cecilia---Why don't you become a registered member here? A good name would be SoCalledGal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
Caleb,
Jeff is here with me, I just read this to him. You get it 100%! He is elated at your response. He could not have said it better himself. This is exactly why all current board members should be voted out!
To all on this forum, Jeff and I are busy getting packed and ready to go to Colorado Springs in the morning. If anyone on this forum will be in Colorado Springs for the Summer Seminar please introduce yourself to us. We would love to meet you.
<< <i>Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
While I trust that this is true, it does not automatically give the Board a pass. >>
Andy -- I agree with you completely.
The circumstances regarding Cipoletti are well known. He double dipped on expense reimbursements (among other things). The Board who hired him erred in making him Executive Director AND General Counsel. I assure you that will not happen again.
The circumstances regarding Shepherd will be known soon. Completely different issues than Cipoletti but the Board felt he could no longer lead the association. As the legal case works itself out, details will be known and I believe the Board actions will be justified.
If neither of those two things had happened, members would not be up in arms regarding the decision on Jeff. Unfortunately, they did and some people point the fingers at the board. But there is almost no overlap between all three instances.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique. >>
What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? Another unique circumstance?
You realize four in a row, whether coincidental or not, plus the legal filings just gives the wrong appearance to the membership, as you can see from the various threads here on this board and in print (like Coin World). You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters.
<< <i>What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? >>
That was at least 15 years ago now and I'll be honest, I don't know the circumstances of that situation. My understanding -- which may be incorrect -- was that she quit.
<< <i>You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters. >>
I would be more than happy to do that, if I only knew how. Our hands are tied by not wanting to release details of personnel matters. People want to know exactly what happened. We can't do that.
The best I can do is assure you that each situation (since Cipoletti) was unique, did not involve personality conflicts, individual vendettas or a Board running out of control.
I would love to hear your input on what more can be done...
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? >>
That was at least 15 years ago now and I'll be honest, I don't know the circumstances of that situation. My understanding -- which may be incorrect -- was that she quit.
<< <i>You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters. >>
I would be more than happy to do that, if I only knew how. Our hands are tied by not wanting to release details of personnel matters. People want to know exactly what happened. We can't do that.
The best I can do is assure you that each situation (since Cipoletti) was unique, did not involve personality conflicts, individual vendettas or a Board running out of control.
I would love to hear your input on what more can be done... >>
How about the Board tells Jeff why he was terminated and he can decide whether or not to publicly reveal the details?
<< <i> An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
Greg >>
Greg,
I will not quote the PM you sent me for the “P” stands for private and I will honor that.
Yes it is true that I do not know the whole, full and complete story reference Jeff Shevlin and maybe in the end it should have ended in a termination of employment.
I just question the process that was used or in this case lack of. You stated that “An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly” so you are agreeing that Mr. Shevlin was an employee of the A.N.A.?
Was Mr. Shevlin’s employment with the A.N.A. stopped, ended, ceased to be continued or involuntary terminated? I do not understand how you can say that an “involuntary termination of employment” is not the result of a form of “disciplinary action”.
Regardless of what Colorado employment laws states I believe you will learn that the courts will give weight to the organization personnel policy and bylaws that were established at the time and in place.
The A.N.A.’s Bylaws are quite narrow in scope on how the Board of Governors can terminate the Executive Director and without having a hearing to hear Mr. Shevlin’s side of the issue, afford him a chance to present evidence in his defense, the ability to confront and cross examine his accusers how can the Board document that the action(s) taken to terminate was within “Remove the Executive Director, any non-elected Officer and/or any Special Officer who does not or cannot meet the requirements of office or fails to perform the duties of his or her office.”
I’m not against the firing or termination of Mr. Shevlin, for I don’t know the reasons why. I am against the manor or method and lack of due process that the Board of Governors utilized. As a member of the organization, I hope that even you believe that employee’s issue should be handled with a sense of “fair play” and proper procedures used when dealing with personnel issues.
Yes it is true that I do not know how you voted, but that is irrelevant. Were you part of the meeting when it was discussed to relieve Mr. Shevlin of his duties? Did you bring up a “point of order” questioning if this was proper action to be handled without Mr. Shevlin being present? Did you protest in anyway? Did you leave the meeting? Regardless of how you voted if you were present, stayed and took a part in the action taken either for or against then you were responsible.
If I had been on the Board, not only would I have questioned the purpose of the meeting but I would have made a motion to adjourn and if that didn’t pass then I would have walked out and tried to get other members to follow so that a quorum was no longer present.
Cecilia - If you do not know exactly why Jeff was fired, you do not know the "complete truth". Join the club. >>
You are right, I spoke wrong. I should have used the word "ABLOLUTE" rather than complete because you probably only know a small fraction of the dysfunction going on at the ANA.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
Text
"Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination?"
Such a great question. And why was it never answered? Because the short answer is NO.
"How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?"
This is another great question, and if I am not mistaken, (also not answered) since in only one week two different board members changed their mind from "Jeff you are doing a good job" to "fire him"!
I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?", trying to figure out what went wrong and when. By the boards actions I believe they just simply do not care! (sort of like the majority of the membership). Both Jeff and I have had many sleepless nights trying to determine this. But, it's like hitting your head against the wall over and over expecting a different result. We must just move on.
<< <i>I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?" >>
The short answer: No, they would have to have a conscience first.
Just the fact that the Board of Governors did this behind closed doors, probably in the dead of night by flashlight only, they knew what they were doing was wrong. If it wasn’t wrong, then why not have the employee involved present so the Board of Governors could make an informed decision based on facts established from both sides of the story instead of handling it in absentia.
I sincerely hope that Jeff pursues this in court, the Board of Governors need to learn the definitions of punitive damages as well as compensatory damages when they willfully violated their own Bylaws and I imagine their personnel policy as well.
<< <i>I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?" >>
The short answer: No, they would have to have a conscience first.
Just the fact that the Board of Governors did this behind closed doors, probably in the dead of night by flashlight only, they knew what they were doing was wrong. If it wasn’t wrong, then why not have the employee involved present so the Board of Governors could make an informed decision based on facts established from both sides of the story instead of handling it in absentia.
I sincerely hope that Jeff pursues this in court, the Board of Governors need to learn the definitions of punitive damages as well as compensatory damages when they willfully violated their own Bylaws and I imagine their personnel policy as well. >>
Forgive me if this ground has been covered already, but how much effort has Jeff made to get an answer from various Board members as to why his contract was not renewed?
And if he was given an answer, was it just too vague to satisfy him - for example, "we just don't think you're a good fit for this job", or "we're not satisfied with the progress we're making"? Or perhaps he simply disagreed with the reason given and can't accept the explanation as sincere - for example, "we don't think you have the skills to do the job", or "we're convinced you're a devil-worshipper". I can understand an employer not wanting to debate any of this with a terminated employee, but I have to believe something was said. The idea that he got the boot without any explanation at all is just too strange for me to accept without asking a few questions. What can you tell us?
.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Forgive me if this ground has been covered already, but how much effort has Jeff made to get an answer from various Board members as to why his contract was not renewed?
And if he was given an answer, was it just too vague to satisfy him - for example, "we just don't think you're a good fit for this job", or "we're not satisfied with the progress we're making"? Or perhaps he simply disagreed with the reason given and can't accept the explanation as sincere - for example, "we don't think you have the skills to do the job", or "we're convinced you're a devil-worshipper". I can understand an employer not wanting to debate any of this with a terminated employee, but I have to believe something was said. The idea that he got the boot without any explanation at all is just too strange for me to accept without asking a few questions. What can you tell us?
Andy,
First of all the "his contract was not renewed" is a farce. Jeff was fired!
The two attorneys walked into his office with a "bribe" asking him to sign a form stating that he "quit" to go back home to his family, or health reasons (can't remember exactly what was on it) or in other words they wanted him to lie in exchange for compensation. The attorney told him that she was very sorry to have to give it to him. He asked why and they gave him a vague answer similar to one of the first two examples you used above. The attorneys escorted him out of his office. Not one board member contacted Jeff at all. Jeff went to Tom's shop to talk to him a few times but Tom did not give him a reason.
We feel that it is so very strange also, but these are the facts. No explanation or communication AT ALL from the board. BAFFLING! This is why we suffer many sleepless nights.
First of all the "his contract was not renewed" is a farce. Jeff was fired!
OK, although I don't see why one is any better than the other.
The two attorneys walked into his office with a "bribe" asking him to sign a form stating that he "quit" to go back home to his family, or health reasons (can't remember exactly what was on it) or in other words they wanted him to lie in exchange for compensation.
I don't know why they felt the need to do that. I could come up with a couple of logical guesses, but not guessing seems a better and smarter option. It would be nice to hear Greg's take on this, if he can share it. (Again, sorry if that ground has already been covered.)
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>"I don't know why they felt the need to do that."
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia >>
Good for him. I hope he sues them and wins a big judgment. This may the only way that the veil of secrecy is removed from the ANA.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>"I don't know why they felt the need to do that."
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia - That still doesn't explain why they felt the need for Jeff to "not say anything to anyone". And in that respect, I have no clue. Do you? >>
Andy,
Have you been reading these posts? LOL
It appears that the ANA board is trying to cover up the dysfunction going on, it is pretty plain to me and many other people.
But then, like I said before you probably only know a small fraction of what is going on.
AND, I still have no clue WHY they did what they did! Very little of it makes any sense at all.
All I can equate it to is power hungry politicians that want their way. Jeff got a few board members angry with him somehow (probably when he and Tom did not renew Ron Serna's contract). A guess!
I would love to know why they appointed Kim Kiick ED the day after they fired Jeff when she did not even make it to the final round in the interviews.........go figure. Why did they not call in the second choice, or even the third choice???
<< <i>After all this turmoil, I can't understand who (worth having) would want to lead this organization, or who would want to work with this board of governors. >>
Is this why they appointed Kim Kiick so quickly even though she did not make the last cut in the interview pool?
Comments
<< <i>We still believe in the ANA! With the right board of governors voted in the ANA can again be an organization that has so much potential. Don't give up on the ANA use your voting power to vote in the right board of governors. There are so many good new candidates, choose them.
Cecilia (for) >>
Amen Jeff and Cecilia!
Stewart Huckaby
mailto:stewarth@HA.com
------------------------------------------
Heritage Auctions
Heritage Auctions
2801 W. Airport Freeway
Dallas, Texas 75261
Phone: 1-800-US-COINS, x1355
Heritage Auctions
<< <i>What if ... just what if ... JS was not competent as the Executive Director (which doesn't mean his is a "bad" person)? Too many people equate "likeability" or "technical expertise" as equivalent to leadership ability. Just because somebody is a great numismatist does not mean they can lead the ANA.
Just to be clear ... I have no idea of the reason(s) for the non-renewal. I wish Jeff the best as all of my interactions with him in the past support him being a kind, generous man who cares deeply about the hobby. >>
I think at least 25 years in a Management roll managing 140 employees, taking many leadership courses and teaching leadership courses qualifies Jeff as the Executive Director for the ANA with just 35 employees. Jeff was also a college instructor teaching advanced information technology courses. He retired from both careers at the same time last year in order to take the appointment of ED at the ANA. He is also a seasoned numismatist, well known as an expert on So-Called Dollars and many other coins, this combination made him perfect for the Executive Director roll. Politics is what got in the way. A few board members with their own agendas, a few staff with their own agendas.
The membership of the ANA that knew Jeff were very excited to have "one of their own" as ED. The membership that he came across at his presentations that got a chance to listen to his plans for the ANA also were very excited. I will try to post a link to one of his presentation soon (if I can figure out how). Jeff will probably know how but he is always so busy, that is why I decided to get on here and speak for him. You may be able to google Utube videos and find some of his presentations also if interested in finding out.
And, thank you for your good wishes!
Cecilia (for)
Link did not work.
Cecilia (for)
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I think at least 25 years in a Management roll managing 140 employees, taking many leadership courses and teaching leadership courses qualifies Jeff as the Executive Director for the ANA with just 35 employees. Jeff was also a college instructor teaching advanced information technology courses. He retired from both careers at the same time last year in order to take the appointment of ED at the ANA. He is also a seasoned numismatist, well known as an expert on So-Called Dollars and many other coins, this combination made him perfect for the Executive Director roll.
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds. >>
A few of them, anyways...
<< <i>My hope is those elected learn the art of cohesively working together, instead of creating greater drama when solution is applied to a more severe internal problem. It seems to me we need to sweep under the rug once in a while. This serves most organizations well. >>
There isn't going to be working together and cohesion this go round. Change, it is a comin....
But then again, the past two ED have been all but ACTING ED anyway?
Employees can become more emboldened and resistant to change when there is turmoil at the top. This must also be looked at as well.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
No doubt the ANA Board had similar thoughts when they hired Jeff. No doubt they later changed their minds. >>
Yes, just a FEW of them did but that is when the "dysfunction" started happening. As I said before, 6 out of 9 board members told Jeff that he was doing a "great to good" job when he called them just a week before being terminated. Two of them changed their mind in that week. It just does not add up!
Cecilia (for)
<< <i>I too agree that given the apparent situation, Kim should not have been made ED at this time >>
Unfortunately I, too, have arrived at this conclusion.
It seems that somewhere along the way, some high-level ANA employees figured out how to get their boss fired. Twice. It does matter HOW someone gets the top job. Et tu, Brute?
I voted for two incumbent governors. At this point, if I had my ballot back, I would vote for an entirely clean slate.
The board should be replaced for being inept. Hire someone skilled and let them do their job. Have clear goals and parameters and do not listen to staff for the first year at least.
<< <i>the continuing saga of the ANA makes me think of the Firesign Theater, Were All Bozos on this Bus.
The board should be replaced for being inept. Hire someone skilled and let them do their job. Have clear goals and parameters and do not listen to staff for the first year at least. >>
This is part of the problem, Jeff's tenure was cut way to short to even have been given a chance to be effective. Common sense says give him a year or two and then review unless something criminal or negligent was done and that is not the case here.
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Whose fault is that?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Nobody else's fault except the board's. Disagree with the above statement? Then prove your side of argument now because so far it's not looking too good.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg
<< <i>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Yes, Greg. Most of us including me only know "one side of the story" on BOTH Larry and Jeff. The assumption we have, based on what you've said on this coin forum, is that we will eventually learn the other side of the story. That is the story the ANA board has to tell. I really DO hope that that story gets laid out in as much detail as reasonably possible. Larry has already stated his case. And Jeff and his wife have already been on this coin forum 25 times, mostly in the past three weeks trying to tell their side of the story. Somehow, someway the leaders of the ANA need to open up this discussion to their membership. The current President might be an excellent choice to say something meaningful. After all, he LIVES in the Colorado Springs area and I'm sure has spent significant time at headquarters in the past two years. The organization NEEDS a cleansing and it will get it one way or another when the problems that exist are aired in public. Since you are the ONLY board member who has had the guts to be here and post 282 times in the past 2+ years, it would be nice if the board authorized you to also tell "the other side of the story". JMHO. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>
<< <i>The board should be replaced for being inept. >>
You do realize know only one side of the story, right?
Greg >>
Yes I do but if I didn’t have to give any odds, I would bet on Jeff Shevlin winning if he took this and litigated the improper termination in court which I hope he does. The Board of Governors needs to learn a lesson even if it cost the A.N.A. for such lesson and hopefully they will learn the difference between Compensatory Damages and Punitive Damages.
Regardless of Colorado law, the willful violation of the A.N.A.’s own Bylaws is a benchmark that the Board of Governors is going to have a hard time getting over. Any competent attorney should have advised the Board of Governors of this.
On the bright side, if the Board of Governors was acting on advice of counsel then they can always take her malpractice insurance out for a test ride.
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
VERY well stated
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Please don't try to make people think that Jeff did something wrong!!! You know that he did nothing wrong! In all fairness to you, I would not expect you to give details of anything because of the ANA by-laws. But in fairness to Jeff, do not get on here and put something in peoples minds that did not happen. We are telling the COMPLETE truth! Please do not venture off the deep end.
Cecilia (for)
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Please don't try to make people think that Jeff did something wrong!!! You know that he did nothing wrong! In all fairness to you, I would not expect you to give details of anything because of the ANA by-laws. But in fairness to Jeff, do not get on here and put something in peoples minds that did not happen. We are telling the COMPLETE truth! Please do not venture off the deep end.
Cecilia (for) >>
Cecilia---Why don't you become a registered member here? A good name would be SoCalledGal.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
Caleb,
Jeff is here with me, I just read this to him. You get it 100%! He is elated at your response. He could not have said it better himself. This is exactly why all current board members should be voted out!
To all on this forum,
Jeff and I are busy getting packed and ready to go to Colorado Springs in the morning. If anyone on this forum will be in Colorado Springs for the Summer Seminar please introduce yourself to us. We would love to meet you.
Cecilia and
"
To be truthful, I attempted to register twice but never received the response.
Cecilia
Cecilia - If you do not know exactly why Jeff was fired, you do not know the "complete truth". Join the club.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
Greg
While I trust that this is true, it does not automatically give the Board a pass.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
While I trust that this is true, it does not automatically give the Board a pass. >>
Andy -- I agree with you completely.
The circumstances regarding Cipoletti are well known. He double dipped on expense reimbursements (among other things). The Board who hired him erred in making him Executive Director AND General Counsel. I assure you that will not happen again.
The circumstances regarding Shepherd will be known soon. Completely different issues than Cipoletti but the Board felt he could no longer lead the association. As the legal case works itself out, details will be known and I believe the Board actions will be justified.
If neither of those two things had happened, members would not be up in arms regarding the decision on Jeff. Unfortunately, they did and some people point the fingers at the board. But there is almost no overlap between all three instances.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>Don't you think the dues paying members of an organization that has fired one executive director after another deserves an explanation as to what is going on? >>
An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique. >>
What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? Another unique circumstance?
You realize four in a row, whether coincidental or not, plus the legal filings just gives the wrong appearance to the membership, as you can see from the various threads here on this board and in print (like Coin World). You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters.
<< <i>What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? >>
That was at least 15 years ago now and I'll be honest, I don't know the circumstances of that situation. My understanding -- which may be incorrect -- was that she quit.
<< <i>You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters. >>
I would be more than happy to do that, if I only knew how. Our hands are tied by not wanting to release details of personnel matters. People want to know exactly what happened. We can't do that.
The best I can do is assure you that each situation (since Cipoletti) was unique, did not involve personality conflicts, individual vendettas or a Board running out of control.
I would love to hear your input on what more can be done...
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>What about the woman who was ED for a few months before Cipoletti? >>
That was at least 15 years ago now and I'll be honest, I don't know the circumstances of that situation. My understanding -- which may be incorrect -- was that she quit.
<< <i>You would think there would be some smart folks on the Board who would realize this and publically and formally try to assuage our concerns without revealing private personnel matters. >>
I would be more than happy to do that, if I only knew how. Our hands are tied by not wanting to release details of personnel matters. People want to know exactly what happened. We can't do that.
The best I can do is assure you that each situation (since Cipoletti) was unique, did not involve personality conflicts, individual vendettas or a Board running out of control.
I would love to hear your input on what more can be done... >>
How about the Board tells Jeff why he was terminated and he can decide whether or not to publicly reveal the details?
<< <i> An answer as to what happened with Chris Cipoletti is already public knowledge -- if you need a refresher, please PM me.
An answer as to what happened with Larry Shepherd will soon be public knowledge in response to his legal actions.
An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly.
I assure you the circumstances of all three are 100% unique.
Greg >>
Greg,
I will not quote the PM you sent me for the “P” stands for private and I will honor that.
Yes it is true that I do not know the whole, full and complete story reference Jeff Shevlin and maybe in the end it should have ended in a termination of employment.
I just question the process that was used or in this case lack of. You stated that “An answer as to Jeff's employment remains a personnel matter which is not discussed publicly” so you are agreeing that Mr. Shevlin was an employee of the A.N.A.?
Was Mr. Shevlin’s employment with the A.N.A. stopped, ended, ceased to be continued or involuntary terminated? I do not understand how you can say that an “involuntary termination of employment” is not the result of a form of “disciplinary action”.
Regardless of what Colorado employment laws states I believe you will learn that the courts will give weight to the organization personnel policy and bylaws that were established at the time and in place.
The A.N.A.’s Bylaws are quite narrow in scope on how the Board of Governors can terminate the Executive Director and without having a hearing to hear Mr. Shevlin’s side of the issue, afford him a chance to present evidence in his defense, the ability to confront and cross examine his accusers how can the Board document that the action(s) taken to terminate was within “Remove the Executive Director, any non-elected Officer and/or any Special Officer who does not or cannot meet the requirements of office or fails to perform the duties of his or her office.”
I’m not against the firing or termination of Mr. Shevlin, for I don’t know the reasons why. I am against the manor or method and lack of due process that the Board of Governors utilized. As a member of the organization, I hope that even you believe that employee’s issue should be handled with a sense of “fair play” and proper procedures used when dealing with personnel issues.
Yes it is true that I do not know how you voted, but that is irrelevant. Were you part of the meeting when it was discussed to relieve Mr. Shevlin of his duties? Did you bring up a “point of order” questioning if this was proper action to be handled without Mr. Shevlin being present? Did you protest in anyway? Did you leave the meeting? Regardless of how you voted if you were present, stayed and took a part in the action taken either for or against then you were responsible.
If I had been on the Board, not only would I have questioned the purpose of the meeting but I would have made a motion to adjourn and if that didn’t pass then I would have walked out and tried to get other members to follow so that a quorum was no longer present.
These will come to light in court. I also expect a suit to follow from Jeff.
I would not be shocked to Maybe see charges files.
One person that can't afford a lawyer truly has a strong case for damages causes by the ANA.
That ANA got lucky on that one.
<< <i>We are telling the COMPLETE truth!
Cecilia - If you do not know exactly why Jeff was fired, you do not know the "complete truth". Join the club. >>
You are right, I spoke wrong. I should have used the word "ABLOLUTE" rather than complete because you probably only know a small fraction of the dysfunction going on at the ANA.
Cecilia
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
Text
"Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination?"
Such a great question. And why was it never answered? Because the short answer is NO.
"How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?"
This is another great question, and if I am not mistaken, (also not answered) since in only one week two different board members changed their mind from "Jeff you are doing a good job" to "fire him"!
I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?", trying to figure out what went wrong and when. By the boards actions I believe they just simply do not care! (sort of like the majority of the membership). Both Jeff and I have had many sleepless nights trying to determine this. But, it's like hitting your head against the wall over and over expecting a different result. We must just move on.
Cecilia
<< <i>I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?" >>
The short answer: No, they would have to have a conscience first.
Just the fact that the Board of Governors did this behind closed doors, probably in the dead of night by flashlight only, they knew what they were doing was wrong. If it wasn’t wrong, then why not have the employee involved present so the Board of Governors could make an informed decision based on facts established from both sides of the story instead of handling it in absentia.
I sincerely hope that Jeff pursues this in court, the Board of Governors need to learn the definitions of punitive damages as well as compensatory damages when they willfully violated their own Bylaws and I imagine their personnel policy as well.
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if Greg or any other board member lays awake all night wondering "WHY?" >>
The short answer: No, they would have to have a conscience first.
Just the fact that the Board of Governors did this behind closed doors, probably in the dead of night by flashlight only, they knew what they were doing was wrong. If it wasn’t wrong, then why not have the employee involved present so the Board of Governors could make an informed decision based on facts established from both sides of the story instead of handling it in absentia.
I sincerely hope that Jeff pursues this in court, the Board of Governors need to learn the definitions of punitive damages as well as compensatory damages when they willfully violated their own Bylaws and I imagine their personnel policy as well.
Sad truth!
Cecilia
Forgive me if this ground has been covered already, but how much effort has Jeff made to get an answer from various Board members as to why his contract was not renewed?
And if he was given an answer, was it just too vague to satisfy him - for example, "we just don't think you're a good fit for this job", or "we're not satisfied with the progress we're making"? Or perhaps he simply disagreed with the reason given and can't accept the explanation as sincere - for example, "we don't think you have the skills to do the job", or "we're convinced you're a devil-worshipper". I can understand an employer not wanting to debate any of this with a terminated employee, but I have to believe something was said. The idea that he got the boot without any explanation at all is just too strange for me to accept without asking a few questions. What can you tell us?
.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Cecilia -
Forgive me if this ground has been covered already, but how much effort has Jeff made to get an answer from various Board members as to why his contract was not renewed?
And if he was given an answer, was it just too vague to satisfy him - for example, "we just don't think you're a good fit for this job", or "we're not satisfied with the progress we're making"? Or perhaps he simply disagreed with the reason given and can't accept the explanation as sincere - for example, "we don't think you have the skills to do the job", or "we're convinced you're a devil-worshipper". I can understand an employer not wanting to debate any of this with a terminated employee, but I have to believe something was said. The idea that he got the boot without any explanation at all is just too strange for me to accept without asking a few questions. What can you tell us?
Andy,
First of all the "his contract was not renewed" is a farce. Jeff was fired!
The two attorneys walked into his office with a "bribe" asking him to sign a form stating that he "quit" to go back home to his family, or health reasons (can't remember exactly what was on it) or in other words they wanted him to lie in exchange for compensation. The attorney told him that she was very sorry to have to give it to him. He asked why and they gave him a vague answer similar to one of the first two examples you used above. The attorneys escorted him out of his office. Not one board member contacted Jeff at all. Jeff went to Tom's shop to talk to him a few times but Tom did not give him a reason.
We feel that it is so very strange also, but these are the facts. No explanation or communication AT ALL from the board. BAFFLING! This is why we suffer many sleepless nights.
Cecilia
I fired a CFO one time. It was tough. But it was done face to face.
OK, although I don't see why one is any better than the other.
The two attorneys walked into his office with a "bribe" asking him to sign a form stating that he "quit" to go back home to his family, or health reasons (can't remember exactly what was on it) or in other words they wanted him to lie in exchange for compensation.
I don't know why they felt the need to do that. I could come up with a couple of logical guesses, but not guessing seems a better and smarter option. It would be nice to hear Greg's take on this, if he can share it. (Again, sorry if that ground has already been covered.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
"I don't know why they felt the need to do that."
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia
<< <i>"I don't know why they felt the need to do that."
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia >>
Good for him. I hope he sues them and wins a big judgment. This may the only way that the veil of secrecy is removed from the ANA.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia - That still doesn't explain why they felt the need for Jeff to "not say anything to anyone". And in that respect, I have no clue. Do you?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>"I don't know why they felt the need to do that."
If he signed this form it stated that he could "not say anything to anyone". He did not accept their bribe.
Cecilia - That still doesn't explain why they felt the need for Jeff to "not say anything to anyone". And in that respect, I have no clue. Do you? >>
Andy,
Have you been reading these posts? LOL
It appears that the ANA board is trying to cover up the dysfunction going on, it is pretty plain to me and many other people.
But then, like I said before you probably only know a small fraction of what is going on.
AND, I still have no clue WHY they did what they did! Very little of it makes any sense at all.
All I can equate it to is power hungry politicians that want their way. Jeff got a few board members angry with him somehow (probably when he and Tom did not renew Ron Serna's contract). A guess!
I would love to know why they appointed Kim Kiick ED the day after they fired Jeff when she did not even make it to the final round in the interviews.........go figure. Why did they not call in the second choice, or even the third choice???
Cecilia
<< <i>After all this turmoil, I can't understand who (worth having) would want to lead this organization, or who would want to work with this board of governors. >>
Is this why they appointed Kim Kiick so quickly even though she did not make the last cut in the interview pool?
Just a thought..........
Cecilia