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Another ANA Executive Director bites the dust...

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  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Sounds like you would be the perfect candidate to toss your hat in the ring during the next election image >>



    Probably a 16 year old is too young image >>



    Sounds like they need a new perspective. Too bad they don't include a young numismatist on the board as an at large member. Your common sense approach might be a breath of fresh air.
  • mustanggtmustanggt Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭✭✭


    BTW, I have absolutely no personal animosity toward Shevlin. He is a nice, personable guy. I just thought it painfully obvious (to me at least) that he wasn't right to lead the ANA. >>



    I'm curious about your animosity towards me and the other board members....

    Greg >>
    [

    And what does that mean (painfully obvious)????
  • I will do it!
    Taylor
    Also known as coinman101---
    I am a YN and I do not want anybody to question my IQ Level! I don't know everything and came here to learn! image
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I will do it!
    Taylor >>



    Yep - Taylor and Caleb would both be fine choices for YN at large members image
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>IT's a disgrace what the A.N.A. has failed to become. They have a long long way to go to gain me back as a member. >>


    Less than 30,000 members. And I thought us Jews were a small percentage image

    Thanks for the nod, ColonelJessup. I only have one more bite of food for thought (to the quoted above):

    Instead of lapsed membership is it not better to join and change from within? If I did not have three businesses to run and a baby to raise, I would try.

    Those who quit on the ANA should not complain about its failures.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • hchcoinhchcoin Posts: 4,825 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Those who quit on the ANA should not complain about its failures. >>



    I shouldn't be saying this because you are talking about me but I agree with you image
  • SonorandesertratSonorandesertrat Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I mean come on. This is a hobby of collectors with fairly basic goals. How hard can it be to figure out what's best for today's hobby and then implement it?
    It doesn't matter what the reasons for multiple failures have been....just that there have been multiple failures. Time to call a plumber.

    Organizations like PCGS, NGC, ICTA, PNG, CAC, ANACS, etc. have figured things out in their individual niches. Why can't the ANA? >>



    Organizations like those are for-profit businesses---if they don't get things figured out, they go the way of the dodo. The biggest problem with the ANA is its membership composition---there are pure collectors, investors, dealers of varying types, owners of auction houses, etc. The interests of these subgroups are not always aligned, and this can be a source of continuing friction and organizational dysfunction.
    Member: EAC, NBS, C4, CWTS, ANA

    RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'

    CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    a couple (maybe 2) years ago, I purchased 2 Morgan dollars off of an ANA Governors eBay store. Both were raw and both had hand written grades and were advertised as MS 64++... Both coins came back MS62 from PCGS. I never complained till now and I understand that grading is subjective, but I always wondered "how can this guy be on the Board of Governors at the ANA?" He still holds the position, at least he was on my latest copy of 'The Numismatist'.

    Erik
  • bidaskbidask Posts: 13,834 ✭✭✭✭✭
    American Numismatic Association President Thomas Hallenbeck should immediately resign.

    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
    I give away money. I collect money.
    I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.




  • mozinmozin Posts: 8,755 ✭✭✭
    I don't know any of the ANA officers personally, but Laura Sperber might well be the one to mold the ANA into a better organization.
    I collect Capped Bust series by variety in PCGS AU/MS grades.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I consider myself to be a fairly good numismatist, but I could not run the ANA. It's not what I am good at.

    Lots of people are good at two or three things but not management. It is askill that some people have that others do not.

    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • MidLifeCrisisMidLifeCrisis Posts: 10,504 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Meh.
  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 23,892 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I consider myself to be a fairly good numismatist, but I could not run the ANA. It's not what I am good at.

    Same here, and I'll take it one step further. I wouldn't even know how to pick a good Executive Director.
    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • StaircoinsStaircoins Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭

    I enjoy reading The Numismatist, having a table at ANA shows, and support many ANA activities, so I remain a member.

    Governance-wise, however, the organization remains a disappointment, and frankly, an embarrassment.

    Somehow it continues to succeed despite its best attempts to fail.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Laura Sperber might well be the one to mold the ANA into a better organization. >>



    image

    She's very pro-collector and has good ideas on how the ANA can help improve collecting.

    I will add the caveat that if the ED reports to the Board of Governors, perhaps it would be better for her to be a member of or the Chairman of the Board.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    the ANA is a mess, has been for many years, and as it seems to have outlived its relevance I would think anyone who becomes willingly entangled in the mess is just asking to be dismissed.
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,302 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I enjoy reading The Numismatist, having a table at ANA shows, and support many ANA activities, so I remain a member.

    Governance-wise, however, the organization remains a disappointment, and frankly, an embarrassment.

    Somehow it continues to succeed despite its best attempts to fail. >>


    That's because the staff, both past and current, is INCREDIBLE.

    One would think it fairly trivial to run an organization with such rock stars as employees, but for some reason, it's not.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>All ANA board maybe should be changed,----- their picker is broken! >>



    Just a factual reply. There is significant turnover on the ANA board from election to election.

    Only two people (out of nine) were on the 2001-2003 board that hired Cipoletti and the 2007-2009 board which dismissed him.

    Only three (out of nine) were on the 2007-2009 board which hired Shepherd and the 2011-2013 board which dismissed him.

    Only one person was on all three of those board.

    Greg >>



    Which person is that ? >>



    Anyone ?
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Laura Sperber might well be the one to mold the ANA into a better organization. >>



    image

    She's very pro-collector and has good ideas on how the ANA can help improve collecting.

    I will add the caveat that if the ED reports to the Board of Governors, perhaps it would be better for her to be a member of or the Chairman of the Board. >>



    To me she seems to come off rather elitist, and I get the impression she thinks lowly of people who collect cheap "widgets".
    If you want to attract more members to the ANA, you have to do some catering to entry-level folks who would collect lower-cost items.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    A guy can't do a job when the microscope does all the work and it's used on the elect to find flaws which disqualify. Why not give a battery of tests prior to hire, if looking for "personality" .
    Good Leadership is often just a matter of finding a representative who will get along for the sake of going along.

    I'm no authority except in my house.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>a couple (maybe 2) years ago, I purchased 2 Morgan dollars off of an ANA Governors eBay store. Both were raw and both had hand written grades and were advertised as MS 64++... Both coins came back MS62 from PCGS. I never complained till now and I understand that grading is subjective, but I always wondered "how can this guy be on the Board of Governors at the ANA?" He still holds the position, at least he was on my latest copy of 'The Numismatist'.

    Erik >>



    Which ANA governors have had eBay stores within the last three years or so ?
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>American Numismatic Association President Thomas Hallenbeck should immediately resign. >>



    We do not know how Tom Hallenbeck voted in regards to the hiring and firing of recent ANA Executive Directors.
    I assume he has only one vote in the matter.
  • cmerlo1cmerlo1 Posts: 7,890 ✭✭✭✭✭
    What exactly does the ANA do again?
    You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>a couple (maybe 2) years ago, I purchased 2 Morgan dollars off of an ANA Governors eBay store. Both were raw and both had hand written grades and were advertised as MS 64++... Both coins came back MS62 from PCGS. I never complained till now and I understand that grading is subjective, but I always wondered "how can this guy be on the Board of Governors at the ANA?" He still holds the position, at least he was on my latest copy of 'The Numismatist'.

    Erik >>



    Which ANA governors have had eBay stores within the last three years or so ? >>



    Link

    In fairness to him, the coins were properly attributed as Hot-50 VAM's, just way off on his given opinion of the grades. Also, I never contacted him or complained to him, so I have no animosity towards him. I was just a little stumped that he was so wrong on the grades, being that he was and still is an ANA Governor.

    Erik
  • PioneerPioneer Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    I know Jeff Shevlin personally. Anyone who thinks he did anything wrong is CRAZY ! He is one of the best numismatists I know, and he has tremendous business knowledge.

    I can only imagine the problem here is with problems inside the ANA that he uncovered.... If anyone on this post is an ANA member, I would strongly suggest you vote for some new ANA board members like Bill Hyder. The ANA is stagnant.

    The ANA has lost my confidence. Now I have no intention of going to the Summer seminar.....
    So-Called Dollar Collector
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Easy fix. Eliminate the position. This will end scandal and drama.
  • PioneerPioneer Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    So... let the board raid the coffers and have free run of the place? Seriously.... ? The ANA needs to get with the program. Why would someone want to be a member when an excellent numismatist is voted out. There is no excuse. If the ANA is supposed to represent small-time numismatists, this is the wrong message to send to the public. VOTE FOR NEW BOARD MEMBERS....
    So-Called Dollar Collector
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>a couple (maybe 2) years ago, I purchased 2 Morgan dollars off of an ANA Governors eBay store. Both were raw and both had hand written grades and were advertised as MS 64++... Both coins came back MS62 from PCGS. I never complained till now and I understand that grading is subjective, but I always wondered "how can this guy be on the Board of Governors at the ANA?" He still holds the position, at least he was on my latest copy of 'The Numismatist'.

    Erik >>



    Which ANA governors have had eBay stores within the last three years or so ? >>



    Link

    In fairness to him, the coins were properly attributed as Hot-50 VAM's, just way off on his given opinion of the grades. Also, I never contacted him or complained to him, so I have no animosity towards him. I was just a little stumped that he was so wrong on the grades, being that he was and still is an ANA Governor.

    Erik >>



    Mike Ellis was first elected ANA Governor less than two years ago (summer 2011).
    In the past (not recently) I've corresponed with him. He seems like a good guy.
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>So... let the board raid the coffers and have free run of the place? Seriously.... ? The ANA needs to get with the program. Why would someone want to be a member when an excellent numismatist is voted out. There is no excuse. If the ANA is supposed to represent small-time numismatists, this is the wrong message to send to the public. VOTE FOR NEW BOARD MEMBERS.... >>



    Every time I vote for new board members they create more drama within the ANA. I'm ready to rescind my life membership before they ruin my life, too.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I was just looking at the ANA web site.
    Apparently all 9 board member positions are up for re-election this summer.
    I note that Tom Hallenbeck is not running for any office.
    Laura Sperber is on the ballot for ANA Governor.
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I know Jeff Shevlin personally. Anyone who thinks he did anything wrong is CRAZY ! He is one of the best numismatists I know, and he has tremendous business knowledge.

    I can only imagine the problem here is with problems inside the ANA that he uncovered.... If anyone on this post is an ANA member, I would strongly suggest you vote for some new ANA board members like Bill Hyder. The ANA is stagnant. >>



    I definitely agree on Jeff Shevlin.
    I also strongly recommend that people vote for Bill Hyder in the coming election of board members.
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>



    Mike Ellis was first elected ANA Governor less than two years ago (summer 2011).
    In the past (not recently) I've corresponed with him. He seems like a good guy. >>



    Correct, I just checked my submission results and I submitted the coins to PCGS in May '12. He seems like a good guy to me as well. Didn't mean to put him on blast and have no real complaints with the coins I purchased from him, as they are still in my SDB ;-)

    Erik
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I know Jeff Shevlin personally. Anyone who thinks he did anything wrong is CRAZY ! He is one of the best numismatists I know, and he has tremendous business knowledge.

    I can only imagine the problem here is with problems inside the ANA that he uncovered.... If anyone on this post is an ANA member, I would strongly suggest you vote for some new ANA board members like Bill Hyder. The ANA is stagnant. >>



    I definitely agree on Jeff Shevlin.
    I also strongly recommend that people vote for Bill Hyder in the coming election of board members. >>



    Voting for Bill is a great idea.

    The more I think about this the more baffled I am. The ANA had someone who really wanted this job. This was a goal of his. To have someone this dedicated and then only give him a year is just amazingly baffling and sad.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>BTW, I have absolutely no personal animosity toward Shevlin. He is a nice, personable guy. I just thought it painfully obvious (to me at least) that he wasn't right to lead the ANA. >>



    I'm curious about your animosity towards me and the other board members....

    Greg >>
    [

    And what does that mean (painfully obvious)???? >>



    My comment is based on the face that you are willing to criticize me (and the remainder of the ANA Board) without knowing everything involved in this matter.

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>I consider myself to be a fairly good numismatist, but I could not run the ANA. It's not what I am good at.

    Same here, and I'll take it one step further. I wouldn't even know how to pick a good Executive Director. >>



    I'm going to start the "Draft Andy Lustig for ANA Governor 2015-2017" committee.

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470
    And I'd like to make a bit of a comment about my service on the ANA Board... I'm not trying to use this as campaign material, but just as an alert for those who think I may have something to gain by being on the ANA board.

    I've been a collector since age 6 and and ANA member since age 11 (30 year ago). I'm a collector at heart but I understand the business side of the ANA and numismatics in general. Although the ANA will pay for the expenses of a governor to attend ANA conventions, I have paid my own way to all ANA conventions since I've been on the Board and will continue to do so. I serve on the ANA Board because I care about the ANA and the hobby.

    I realize that people may not agree with all the decisions the ANA board makes -- and, in some cases, I may not agree either -- but I am only one vote. But I think that everyone on the ANA board cares deeply for the ANA and numismatics in general.

    There is no way I will profit from anything I'm doing on the ANA Board. I don't want that to happen. I am running for re-election because I want the ANA to move forward -- by reaching out to members and non-members through things like the ANA Road Show and a new ANA website.

    I welcome anyone to ask me questions or send critiques of what the ANA is doing. I can be reached by messages on here, by email at GregL13@swbell.net or by phone at 314-495-5760.

    (And for whatever it's worth.. realize I'm the only ANA governor with an active presence on these forums...)

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    I do not believe Laura Serber would last a month leading the ANA, nor be a happy camper on the board. I doubt they/she ccould tolerate each other and she would only appeal to the 1/2 of 1 percent of the 27,000 members. The state quarter guys/gals would be left out in the cold.

    When you get one person that bucks the system on school boards, hospital boards or any boards the others will drive you crazy.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,796 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Thanks Greg Lyon. Your posts restore my faith in humanity and the sensibility of those at the helm. I get tired of so much brutality over such triviality.
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>Thanks Greg Lyon. Your posts restore my faith in humanity and the sensibility of those at the helm. I get tired of so much brutality over such triviality. >>



    To be honest, if someone wants to "punish" me by voting me off the board -- feel free. All of a sudden I will have two weeks more vacation from my "real job" to use for non-ANA related matters! :-)

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • GeorgeKelloggGeorgeKellogg Posts: 1,251 ✭✭


    << <i>What exactly does the ANA do again? >>



    Here's a few things the ANA does:

    (1) Conducts the best and largest coin show (The World's Fair of Money) in the U.S. every year.
    (2) Produces one of the finest numismatic publications (The Numismatist) every month.
    (3) Operates our country's only numismatic lending library.
    (4) Sponsors affordable numismatic insurance to collectors and dealers.
    (5) Holds two sessions of the Summer Seminar every year, which continues to get rave reviews from attendees.
    (6) Provides numismatic outreach programs. The ANA Road Show just brought their 1804 Silver Dollar and 1913 Liberty Head Nickel to the 2013 Georgia Numismatic Association Coin Show.
    (7) Provides web site hosting for member clubs.
    (8) Operates one of the finest numismatic museums in the nation.

    I'm not happy with the latest turn of events either, but let's not lose sight of all of the good that the ANA accomplishes.
    "Clamorous for Coin"
  • 3keepSECRETif2rDEAD3keepSECRETif2rDEAD Posts: 4,285 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't forget the sweet discount we get from Wizard Coin Supply image

    Erik
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Laura Sperber might well be the one to mold the ANA into a better organization. >>



    image

    She's very pro-collector and has good ideas on how the ANA can help improve collecting.

    I will add the caveat that if the ED reports to the Board of Governors, perhaps it would be better for her to be a member of or the Chairman of the Board. >>



    To me she seems to come off rather elitist, and I get the impression she thinks lowly of people who collect cheap "widgets". >>



    I agree in the past she could "come off" as rather elitist, but underneath I think she cares about collectors to the extent that she's willing to take personal action to move the hobby forward. My impression is that she's fine with collecting widgets, just not paying exorbitant prices for them where a collector could lose money. I think this is a pro-collector approach. She also cares about doctoring and taking proactive steps to protect collectors.

    Her approach is the opposite of the one it seems that many take of caveat emptor where a lot of entry-level folks lose lots of money and the general response, is that's the way it is in collecting. The current approach that many seem okay with is that new collectors should be prepared to pay a lot in "tuition" and there's nothing that can be done from an overall hobby perspective. I do think there should be some effort on the part of the ANA to reduce the amount of money people lose as their "tuition" when they start in this hobby. I think it's unfortunate that many people seem to think the status quo with regards to "tuition" is okay.



    << <i>If you want to attract more members to the ANA, you have to do some catering to entry-level folks who would collect lower-cost items. >>



    My impression is that she's fine with lower-cost items when they aren't over priced, but the reality is that many collectors lose money in lower cost items and many collectors have also asked what they can do to not lose as much money in collecting. Since this is something collectors ask for, I believe this is also something that the ANA could help on. I think there are few attractive areas of lower cost items from a financial return perspective, including moderns with low demand and privately minted pieces with low mintage. There could be more discussion on this. While these areas aren't necessarily aligned with her business interests, they are also areas where a collector isn't faced with potentially large losses.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I do not believe Laura Serber would last a month leading the ANA, nor be a happy camper on the board. I doubt they/she ccould tolerate each other and she would only appeal to the 1/2 of 1 percent of the 27,000 members. The state quarter guys/gals would be left out in the cold.

    When you get one person that bucks the system on school boards, hospital boards or any boards the others will drive you crazy. >>



    I think what some people are saying is that perhaps the system is broken.... People have said that about other boards, e.g. the Yahoo! board where the Chairman just stepped down.

    I think she would appeal to more than you think. Many collectors are concerned about doctoring and I think she would appeal to them. I think it's a shame collectors are concerned about doctoring and that "people in the know" all know who the doctors are but it seems little can be done about it. She seems to be one of the few people that is pushing for changes that collectors actually care about.

    She also seems to have the ability to get things done including helping create the environment for the bean factory, the PNG doctoring definition, etc. She doesn't need to do all the work but she can create the environment for progress to be made.
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 33,811 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Don't forget the sweet discount we get from Wizard Coin Supply image

    Erik >>



    It would be good to upgrade their token... perhaps have a different one every year image
  • ldhairldhair Posts: 7,111 ✭✭✭✭✭
    In order for the ANA to get back on track, all the drama must stop.
    Those that have caused it should leave. If not, things will never change.
    Larry

  • johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 27,412 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>After all this turmoil, I can't understand who (worth having) would want to lead this organization, or who would want to work with this board of governors. >>



    image


    The ANA might be better off trying to fill this position with a random smoe by placing a want ad on Craigslist imageimage >>

    wow, craigslist and the ana in the same sentance, thats odd. for what its worth
  • ebaytraderebaytrader Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    Having observed the ANA both from afar, and as a member for many years, the only logical conclusion I can come to is that there is a systemic problem in the structure that leads to recurring problems. The names change and yet similar problems crop up year after year. I'm sure that the majority of those that have served the ANA over the years are good people with good intentions so we must look elsewhere.

    Perhaps the ANA should reorganize with the board split into a collector oriented group, and a business oriented group. The business board dealing with building membership and running shows, and the collector board dealing with what is in the best interests of the collector.

    In any event, the dysfunction needs to end or the ANA is going to permanately undermine the hobby it's supposed to champion.
  • roadrunnerroadrunner Posts: 28,303 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Organizations like those are for-profit businesses---if they don't get things figured out, they go the way of the dodo. The biggest problem with the ANA is its membership composition---there are pure collectors, investors, dealers of varying types, owners of auction houses, etc. The interests of these subgroups are not always aligned, and this can be a source of continuing friction and organizational dysfunction.

    Maybe it's time to run it as a for profit business? Not-for-profit businesses are slowly going the way of the dodo as the money becomes harder and harder to get.

    Bottom line is that something hasn't been working despite several governors leaving early. It doesn't matter what the reason was or who's fault it was. The fact that it is happening
    is the problem. And its root cause needs to be analyzed and dug out. I'm sure for a modest consulting fee there are numerous companies around the world that could do this for a
    modest fee. It would be money well spent.
    Barbarous Relic No More, LSCC -GoldSeek--shadow stats--SafeHaven--321gold
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Not-for-profit businesses are slowly going the way of the dodo as the money becomes harder and harder to get. >>


    I don't see this happening at all. My good friends are all on the boards of non-profits here in Atlanta, and my mother-in-law directs a major non-profit in MD.

    I do agree about the consulting idea, though. Sounds like money well spent to me.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image

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