<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
I would like to know this as well. Same for Larry Shepherd.
According to the May "The Numismatist," Hollie Wieland is the General Counsel.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ? Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board.
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ? Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg >>
Was it the idea of one of the last two executive directors to have a different legal counsel (potentially at lower cost) ?
PS: Thanks for the info. I'm confused as to why this sort of detailed information from a board meeting can be discussed here, but information concerning the voting on the Executive Director issue can not be ?
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ? Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg >>
Was it the idea of one of the last two executive directors to have a different legal counsel (potentially at lower cost) ?
PS: Thanks for the info. I'm confused as to why this sort of detailed information from a board meeting can be discussed here, but information concerning the voting on the Executive Director issue can not be ? >>
<< <i>A.N.A Bylaws ARICLE V, Section 7. Open Meetings It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations and/or votes involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board, with a vote of the majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. >>
Reading the Bylaws, I can see where Board members might be hesitant to say how they voted in Executive Session.
I would like to see the Bylaws changed. For the sake of transparency, all motions and votes should see the light of day and not hidden in a closed or Executive Session. While hearings, deliberations, debates or discussions involving personnel issues, contracts or litigation maters may or should be held in executive session, the final action taken by the Board of Governors should be public. This way we the membership may not know why the Board of Governors took action but we should know what action they took. After all, does the A.N.A. belong to the Board of Governors or to the membership?
Reading the Bylaws, it appears that only the Board of Governors can make changes, I wonder if any that visit these boards would have the intestinal fortitude to recommend a change to the entire Board. My recommendation would be that ARTICLE V, Section 7 be replaced with:
It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board stating the precise topic to be discussed, with a vote of the majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. To afford the most transparency, all motions for action and votes must take place in open session.
Reading the Bylaws, I can see where Board members might be hesitant to say how they voted in Executive Session.
I would like to see the Bylaws changed. For the sake of transparency, all motions and votes should see the light of day and not hidden in a closed or Executive Session. While hearings, deliberations, debates or discussions involving personnel issues, contracts or litigation maters may or should be held in executive session, the final action taken by the Board of Governors should be public. This way we the membership may not know why the Board of Governors took action but we should know what action they took. After all, does the A.N.A. belong to the Board of Governors or to the membership?
Reading the Bylaws, it appears that only the Board of Governors can make changes, I wonder if any that visit these boards would have the intestinal fortitude to recommend a change to the entire Board. My recommendation would be that ARTICLE V, Section 7 be replaced with:
It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board stating the precise topic to be discussed, with a vote of the majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. To afford the most transparency, all motions for action and votes must take place in open session. >>
Several candidates for the board, including myself, endorsed more transparency along the lines of your draft change to the Bylaws. As I have stated elsewhere on this board, I have no objection to appropriate confidential discussions. All motions and votes, however, should happen in public or be reported in the minutes and made public even if the specifics of the discussions must be protected by confidentiality. That is not happening today. Or to be more precise, we do not know when it is and is not happening because of the application of confidentiality as practiced today.
<< <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>
An independent accounting is being used as a verb in the context of "regarding." Accounting the full review in this context is the same as saying "regarding a full review." I apologize... it's spending too much time writing documents for the government that changes my writing style!
When one executive director is dismissed, you can say it was a problem with that person. When a second one is dismissed, it might be called an aberration. When a third is dismissed, it represents a pattern. There is a pattern from Cippoletti to Shepherd to Shevlin. We have an idea of what happened to Cippoletti because that case has come and gone. Shepherd's case is still in court and I am sure there's more than meets the eye. I don't know what Jeff Shevlin is going to do, but he's the third in a row. In fact, if you go back 16 years, SIX executive directors have been fired during that time. The only one not fired was Ed Rochette.
Are you not curious as to why three executive directors in a row have been fired? I am. What about the record of six in the last 16 years? If we want to be fair, one of the "fired" executive directors was an interim executive director but was asked to leave before the next ED was hired. Doesn't this sound problematic to you? It does to me!
I want a review of the operations of the ANA headquarters in Colorado Springs. I want to know what people are doing, producing, and what value they are producing for the ANA. I want to know if they are working with the executive director or against the executive director. I also want to know if there might be patronage jobs that may lead to a host of other problems, which is why the executive directors get fired.
BTW: If you remember the stories surrounding Larry Shepherd's firing, there was an allegation that he gave his girl friend a job at the ANA. There were additional rumblings said about this with some unsubstantiated information. Shepherd answered saying that he did nothing wrong then stopped talking, probably on the advice of counsel. Are there similar relationships that could be working against the organization?
For that matter, what is the board's involvement? Is the board micro-managing the organization or are they setting policies and letting the executive director do his job. Not long ago, there was a press release announcing that the board was hiring a firm to conduct a 360-review of Shevlin's job. This was due May 1 yet the firing came before May 1. Was the review completed? Was the review part of the decision? Was the review tainted by management decisions, the board, or any potential interactions or communications outside of normal channels?
I want the management structure of the headquarters review. I want the management structure of how the board interacts with the headquarters and staff reviewed. I want to know if the employment policies of the headquarters are adequate (they were alleged not to be regarding Larry Shepherd) or need refinement. I want to know if something is interfering with the executive director's ability to do the job that needs to be explicitly stated in the ANA by-laws not to do that any more. I want to know if something happened during the term of Shepherd and Shevlin that might have been in violation of employment laws that caused their respective situations to get so bad that the board felt they had to fire both gentlemen.
All it takes is a simple majority to remove an executive director or enact any motion. All the board needs are 5 members who will work to make the headquarters more transparent to the organization and to stop whatever it is that affect Shepherd and Shevlin because I find it difficult to believe, given the public evidence, that after an extensive interview process that both were fired within two years of each other.
Think of it like a medial problem. The patient died, now we have to do the autopsy to determine why so we can learn to do better next time. It will take five board members to vote to allow the autopsy. Will those five votes come from the current board who voted Shepherd and Shevlin out? Let's let the current board put it to a vote and see who votes no. They will be the ones who the ANA members will have to worry about in the future.
BTW: I am fully aware that if proven wrong this could hurt me as a candidate. I am willing to take that chance for the benefit of the ANA.
Scott >>
HI Scott, not to sound crude, but if your a candidate for this vacated position, would you not have some answers to the questions you present and a plan to effectively deal with those issues? Unless the membership gets some straight answers from this Board, this organization is doomed.
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
We DO live in a new era of instant communication and response. Jeff's posting here today will certainly lead to full disclosure of what happened and why. THAT is good for all ANA members to know before they vote. Let's air this all out! Steve
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
And I'm sure that is exactly what this seemingly narcissistic ANA Board hopes will happen. Sweep it under the rug, hope it goes away, hide your ineptitude behind the General Council, and keep riding the wave of position, authority, and power through the next election hoping no one will run against you so you can keep acting like a big shot with your photo in The Numismatist...what a crock of !
If there are any members of the current ANA Board with strong moral principals and who truly have the best interests of the ANA at heart, I can only assume they are hostages of this perceived corruption. Otherwise, it would appear NONE of them have the courage and backbone to jeopardize their "esteemed" status as Board members to blow the lid off of this mess. As far as I'm concerned, the entire ANA Board is guilty by association and co-conspirators until we have some transparency.
The day may very well come when the pride and hubris of the ANA Board (which seems to be getting worse every Board) invites the lawsuit that finally breaks the ANA's back and leads to its fall. Wake up ANA! Rant over....
Good luck Jeff in whatever you decide to do!
And go get 'em Laura!!! You have my vote!
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d). >>
Could d) be used if the present Board of Governors acted improperly by violating the Bylaws of the ANA in terminating the Executive Director and exposing the ANA to an unnecessary expense of litigation?
And I'm sure that is exactly what this seemingly narcissistic ANA Board hopes will happen. Sweep it under the rug, hope it goes away, hide your ineptitude behind the General Council, and keep riding the wave of position, authority, and power through the next election hoping no one will run against you so you can keep acting like a big shot with your photo in The Numismatist...what a crock of !
If there are any members of the current ANA Board with strong moral principals and who truly have the best interests of the ANA at heart, I can only assume they are hostages of this perceived corruption. Otherwise, it would appear NONE of them have the courage and backbone to jeopardize their "esteemed" status as Board members to blow the lid off of this mess. As far as I'm concerned, the entire ANA Board is guilty by association and co-conspirators until we have some transparency.
The day may very well come when the pride and hubris of the ANA Board (which seems to be getting worse every Board) invites the lawsuit that finally breaks the ANA's back and leads to its fall. Wake up ANA! Rant over....
Good luck Jeff in whatever you decide to do!
And go get 'em Laura!!! You have my vote! >>
Well said.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thanks for posting. I hope you get the proper resolution you deserve. I think this has more to do with the upcoming slate of officers than the outgoing people. This is unfortunate, since I am friends with a few of the board members and am in complete disagreement with their decision and the lack of an explanation.
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d). >>
Could d) be used if the present Board of Governors acted improperly by violating the Bylaws of the ANA in terminating the Executive Director and exposing the ANA to an unnecessary expense of litigation? >>
Regarding fiduciary duty I am still waiting to hear the answer to a question I asked a couple days regarding 1) what is the current value of the endowment ? and 2) who is managing the endowment funds? and 3) what is the formula or how much annually can be drawn out of the endowment to support operations of the ANA?
Hope it's a professional third party managing the endowment and not some of the governors. (If it is some of the governors actively investing/managing the endowment funds and the returns have been poor I wonder if that can be construed as a breach of fiduciary responsibility?
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
+1 >>
Time to let this dog die. >>
You may feel differently if it was you that lost their job without a reason after relocating and uprooting your family. I commend Jeff for coming on here after what happened.
Something just doesn't make sense to me. It's like that little voice inside your head or the feeling you get in your gut when you know something just isn't right. For some reason I am getting that feeling.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
has Jeff Shevlin come out and publically say why he thinks he was dismissed?
If not why not?
He was told by Scott Rottinghaus "you're doing a fine job" just prior to his firing. Was that a lie? I don't think so.
If you stop and think about it, maybe Jeff was doing too well! Many have stated that the Board runs the ANA and makes the decisions. This is a shift from the Cipoletti era, when the E.D. ran the shop and the board as well. Jeff was intent on getting the web site running well and maybe he proceeded too fast for the board's liking. So, by working hard and doing good, he ran afoul of some members who wanted to restrict the E.D. This is just me thinking out loud. I don't know if this is the case, but I think it might be.
FYI - I just posted an answer regarding the ANA's Financial Information in a new thread including the questions asked by bidask. This is not an appropriate thread to include those discussions, IMO.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I would think he would have some comment for the membership. >>
This!!!
I expect history will judge TH harshly for this catastrophic leadership failure and his lack of moral courage to respond in a timely and respectful manner to the membership.
George Orwell said "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." I think that pretty much encapsulates this entire issue. It would seem NO ONE in ANA leadership nor on the ANA Board HAS THE MORAL COURAGE to lead a revolution to fix the dysfunction. They would all simply prefer to "play it safe" and keep their benefits and status by hiding behind General Counsel and using the by-laws as a both a crutch and a double standard.
Rant #2 over....
I'm addicted to exonumia ... it is numismatic crack!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
For what it's worth, I believe the ANA has grown too large to be run or treated as just a "coin club" and, while it is important to have passionate coin people involved in running the ANA, it is my belief that the ANA and its members would be much better served being run as the large non-profit corporation that it has become, with experienced business/corporate-minded people at its helm. This includes people with the experience and insight in making sure the ANA is more technology efficient, as no business in this day and age can be run effectively without an experienced technology department and an efficient user-friendly website. So I voted for the folks who I felt encompassed these values.
Got mine today. Walt Ostromecki's opening comment in his bio is particularly interesting.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg >>
Before or after Mr. Shevlin was let go?
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg >>
If that represents Walt's statement in early April, then his grasp on the reality of the organization is weak at best. To write that as the decision to change the Executive Director was germinating seems to indicate either a Board member who was disengaged or ostracized. Then again, he is running unopposed so he can write and say anything he wants ... he just needs one vote and, presumably, he will at least vote for himself.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
I just read Laura Sperber's statement on the ANA's website ... what a disappointment! All the bravado and posturing and such an empty statement ... too bad.
Numismatist Ordinaire See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
Received my ballot yesterday. I've ignored the President and V-P and picked three Board candidates so far. Any thoughts or recommendations for any other votes?
NOTE: With the exception of Greg, please do NOT recommend any other incumbents. Any further votes I cast will be for non-incumbents.
Comments
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
I would like to know this as well.
Same for Larry Shepherd.
<< <i>Who is the ANA counsel ? >>
According to the May "The Numismatist," Hollie Wieland is the General Counsel.
<< <i>Who is the ANA counsel ? >>
General Counsel is listed on this page along with email addresses and telephone numbers
<< <i>
<< <i>Who is the ANA counsel ? >>
General Counsel is listed on this page along with email addresses and telephone numbers
Thanks.
Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ?
Does he still have any involvement in this ?
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ?
Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board.
<< <i>
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ?
Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg >>
Was it the idea of one of the last two executive directors to have a different legal counsel (potentially at lower cost) ?
PS: Thanks for the info.
I'm confused as to why this sort of detailed information from a board meeting can be discussed here,
but information concerning the voting on the Executive Director issue can not be ?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Wasn't Ron Serna the ANA counsel previously ?
Does he still have any involvement in this ? >>
Ron Sirna was previously general counsel. ANA President Tom Hallenbeck, at the board meeting at FUN, offered a motion to have Hollie Wieland serve as our general counsel which was approved by the ANA Board.
Hollie has been involved in previous ANA legal matters, most notably the litigation regarding Chris Cipoletti. I, personally, feel she has done a great job since taking over in January.
Greg >>
Was it the idea of one of the last two executive directors to have a different legal counsel (potentially at lower cost) ?
PS: Thanks for the info.
I'm confused as to why this sort of detailed information from a board meeting can be discussed here,
but information concerning the voting on the Executive Director issue can not be ? >>
<< <i>A.N.A Bylaws
ARICLE V, Section 7. Open Meetings
It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations and/or votes involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board, with a vote of the
majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. >>
Reading the Bylaws, I can see where Board members might be hesitant to say how they voted in Executive Session.
I would like to see the Bylaws changed. For the sake of transparency, all motions and votes should see the light of day and not hidden in a closed or Executive Session. While hearings, deliberations, debates or discussions involving personnel issues, contracts or litigation maters may or should be held in executive session, the final action taken by the Board of Governors should be public. This way we the membership may not know why the Board of Governors took action but we should know what action they took. After all, does the A.N.A. belong to the Board of Governors or to the membership?
Reading the Bylaws, it appears that only the Board of Governors can make changes, I wonder if any that visit these boards would have the intestinal fortitude to recommend a change to the entire Board. My recommendation would be that ARTICLE V, Section 7 be replaced with:
It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board stating the precise topic to be discussed, with a vote of the majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. To afford the most transparency, all motions for action and votes must take place in open session.
<< <i>
Reading the Bylaws, I can see where Board members might be hesitant to say how they voted in Executive Session.
I would like to see the Bylaws changed. For the sake of transparency, all motions and votes should see the light of day and not hidden in a closed or Executive Session. While hearings, deliberations, debates or discussions involving personnel issues, contracts or litigation maters may or should be held in executive session, the final action taken by the Board of Governors should be public. This way we the membership may not know why the Board of Governors took action but we should know what action they took. After all, does the A.N.A. belong to the Board of Governors or to the membership?
Reading the Bylaws, it appears that only the Board of Governors can make changes, I wonder if any that visit these boards would have the intestinal fortitude to recommend a change to the entire Board. My recommendation would be that ARTICLE V, Section 7 be replaced with:
It shall be the policy of the Association that meetings of the Board of Governors, other than votes by mail or electronic communication media, be conducted in open session, except for deliberations involving personnel, including hiring, compensation, and termination thereof; contractual and litigation matters; awards; or such deliberations that the Board members, after due consideration, decide merit confidentiality. Prior to ending an open session for the purpose of going into a closed executive session, there shall be a vote to that effect by the Board stating the precise topic to be discussed, with a vote of the majority of those present required to go into closed executive session. To afford the most transparency, all motions for action and votes must take place in open session. >>
Several candidates for the board, including myself, endorsed more transparency along the lines of your draft change to the Bylaws. As I have stated elsewhere on this board, I have no objection to appropriate confidential discussions. All motions and votes, however, should happen in public or be reported in the minutes and made public even if the specifics of the discussions must be protected by confidentiality. That is not happening today. Or to be more precise, we do not know when it is and is not happening because of the application of confidentiality as practiced today.
<< <i>
<< <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>
An independent accounting is being used as a verb in the context of "regarding." Accounting the full review in this context is the same as saying "regarding a full review." I apologize... it's spending too much time writing documents for the government that changes my writing style!
When one executive director is dismissed, you can say it was a problem with that person. When a second one is dismissed, it might be called an aberration. When a third is dismissed, it represents a pattern. There is a pattern from Cippoletti to Shepherd to Shevlin. We have an idea of what happened to Cippoletti because that case has come and gone. Shepherd's case is still in court and I am sure there's more than meets the eye. I don't know what Jeff Shevlin is going to do, but he's the third in a row. In fact, if you go back 16 years, SIX executive directors have been fired during that time. The only one not fired was Ed Rochette.
Are you not curious as to why three executive directors in a row have been fired? I am. What about the record of six in the last 16 years? If we want to be fair, one of the "fired" executive directors was an interim executive director but was asked to leave before the next ED was hired. Doesn't this sound problematic to you? It does to me!
I want a review of the operations of the ANA headquarters in Colorado Springs. I want to know what people are doing, producing, and what value they are producing for the ANA. I want to know if they are working with the executive director or against the executive director. I also want to know if there might be patronage jobs that may lead to a host of other problems, which is why the executive directors get fired.
BTW: If you remember the stories surrounding Larry Shepherd's firing, there was an allegation that he gave his girl friend a job at the ANA. There were additional rumblings said about this with some unsubstantiated information. Shepherd answered saying that he did nothing wrong then stopped talking, probably on the advice of counsel. Are there similar relationships that could be working against the organization?
For that matter, what is the board's involvement? Is the board micro-managing the organization or are they setting policies and letting the executive director do his job. Not long ago, there was a press release announcing that the board was hiring a firm to conduct a 360-review of Shevlin's job. This was due May 1 yet the firing came before May 1. Was the review completed? Was the review part of the decision? Was the review tainted by management decisions, the board, or any potential interactions or communications outside of normal channels?
I want the management structure of the headquarters review.
I want the management structure of how the board interacts with the headquarters and staff reviewed.
I want to know if the employment policies of the headquarters are adequate (they were alleged not to be regarding Larry Shepherd) or need refinement.
I want to know if something is interfering with the executive director's ability to do the job that needs to be explicitly stated in the ANA by-laws not to do that any more.
I want to know if something happened during the term of Shepherd and Shevlin that might have been in violation of employment laws that caused their respective situations to get so bad that the board felt they had to fire both gentlemen.
All it takes is a simple majority to remove an executive director or enact any motion. All the board needs are 5 members who will work to make the headquarters more transparent to the organization and to stop whatever it is that affect Shepherd and Shevlin because I find it difficult to believe, given the public evidence, that after an extensive interview process that both were fired within two years of each other.
Think of it like a medial problem. The patient died, now we have to do the autopsy to determine why so we can learn to do better next time. It will take five board members to vote to allow the autopsy. Will those five votes come from the current board who voted Shepherd and Shevlin out? Let's let the current board put it to a vote and see who votes no. They will be the ones who the ANA members will have to worry about in the future.
BTW: I am fully aware that if proven wrong this could hurt me as a candidate. I am willing to take that chance for the benefit of the ANA.
Scott >>
HI Scott, not to sound crude, but if your a candidate for this vacated position, would you not have some answers to the questions you present and a plan to effectively deal with those issues? Unless the membership gets some straight answers from this Board, this organization is doomed.
<< <i>
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
+1
<< <i>I must admit - I have been hesitant. But it appears to me that this board deserves some Laura Sperber whup ass. >>
Whatever put you over the top on the election topic?
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<< <i>I must admit - I have been hesitant. But it appears to me that this board deserves some Laura Sperber whup ass. >>
If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d).
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
+1 >>
Time to let this dog die.
<< <i> Time to let this dog die. >>
If there are any members of the current ANA Board with strong moral principals and who truly have the best interests of the ANA at heart, I can only assume they are hostages of this perceived corruption. Otherwise, it would appear NONE of them have the courage and backbone to jeopardize their "esteemed" status as Board members to blow the lid off of this mess. As far as I'm concerned, the entire ANA Board is guilty by association and co-conspirators until we have some transparency.
The day may very well come when the pride and hubris of the ANA Board (which seems to be getting worse every Board) invites the lawsuit that finally breaks the ANA's back and leads to its fall. Wake up ANA! Rant over....
Good luck Jeff in whatever you decide to do!
And go get 'em Laura!!! You have my vote!
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d). >>
Could d) be used if the present Board of Governors acted improperly by violating the Bylaws of the ANA in terminating the Executive Director and exposing the ANA to an unnecessary expense of litigation?
<< <i>
<< <i> Time to let this dog die. >>
If there are any members of the current ANA Board with strong moral principals and who truly have the best interests of the ANA at heart, I can only assume they are hostages of this perceived corruption. Otherwise, it would appear NONE of them have the courage and backbone to jeopardize their "esteemed" status as Board members to blow the lid off of this mess. As far as I'm concerned, the entire ANA Board is guilty by association and co-conspirators until we have some transparency.
The day may very well come when the pride and hubris of the ANA Board (which seems to be getting worse every Board) invites the lawsuit that finally breaks the ANA's back and leads to its fall. Wake up ANA! Rant over....
Good luck Jeff in whatever you decide to do!
And go get 'em Laura!!! You have my vote! >>
Well said.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thanks for posting. I hope you get the proper resolution you deserve. I think this has more to do with the upcoming slate of officers than the outgoing people. This is unfortunate, since I am friends with a few of the board members and am in complete disagreement with their decision and the lack of an explanation.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If Laura doesn't play nice, can the other governors vote her off the island? >>
According to the ANA By-laws, an elected official can be removed for the following reasons:
a) Fails to attend three consecutive regular meetings of the Board of Governors, unless excused for good cause by the President, notwithstanding that he or she otherwise qualifies for office;
b) Is convicted of a felony;
c) Has committed a material breach of his or her fiduciary duty;
d) Has committed any act or has engaged in conduct that is prejudicial to the welfare of the Association;
e) Ceases to be a Member in good standing of the Association while in office.
Greg >>
I'm guessing they'll use d). >>
Could d) be used if the present Board of Governors acted improperly by violating the Bylaws of the ANA in terminating the Executive Director and exposing the ANA to an unnecessary expense of litigation?
Regarding fiduciary duty I am still waiting to hear the answer
to a question I asked a couple days regarding 1) what is the current value of the endowment ? and 2) who is managing the endowment funds?
and 3) what is the formula or how much annually can be drawn out of the endowment to support
operations of the ANA?
Hope it's a professional third party managing the endowment and not some of the governors. (If it is some of the governors actively
investing/managing the endowment funds and the returns have been poor I wonder if that can be
construed as a breach of fiduciary responsibility?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
Hopefully, any misdeeds and problems will come to light in the future. The membership deserves that.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Jeff, do you know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote? If not, do you have thoughts on the candidates for governor, seeing as how voting is commencing? >>
Yes, I do know who was on which side of the 5-4 vote . In my opinion it doesn't matter how they voted, every member of the board violated the by-laws. They should all be dismissed and an entire new board be elected. This is currently one of the biggest cover-ups in the history of the ANA. Board members are saying the ANA legal counsel is not allowing them to tell the members how they voted. The board members do not report to the legal counsel, the legal counsel reports to the board. >>
+1 >>
Time to let this dog die. >>
You may feel differently if it was you that lost their job without a reason after relocating and uprooting your family. I commend Jeff for coming on here after what happened.
Something just doesn't make sense to me. It's like that little voice inside your head or the feeling you get in your gut when you know something just isn't right. For some reason I am getting that feeling.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>Why has Tom Hallenbeck been so quiet? >>
Discretion?
<< <i>
<< <i>Why has Tom Hallenbeck been so quiet? >>
Discretion? >>
Why would he be discrete? Did they pay him to keep silent? Or, did the board have a good reason to fire him he wants to keep it quiet?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why has Tom Hallenbeck been so quiet? >>
Discretion? >>
has Jeff Shevlin come out and publically
say why he thinks he was dismissed?
If not why not?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why has Tom Hallenbeck been so quiet? >>
Discretion? >>
Perhaps but he is also suppose to be a leader.
I would think he would have some comment for the membership.
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
say why he thinks he was dismissed?
If not why not?
He was told by Scott Rottinghaus "you're doing a fine job" just prior to his firing. Was that a lie? I don't think so.
If you stop and think about it, maybe Jeff was doing too well! Many have stated that the Board runs the ANA and makes the decisions. This is a shift from the Cipoletti era, when the E.D. ran the shop and the board as well. Jeff was intent on getting the web site running well and maybe he proceeded too fast for the board's liking. So, by working hard and doing good, he ran afoul of some members who wanted to restrict the E.D. This is just me thinking out loud. I don't know if this is the case, but I think it might be.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why has Tom Hallenbeck been so quiet? >>
Discretion? >>
Perhaps but he is also suppose to be a leader.
I would think he would have some comment for the membership. >>
This!!!
I expect history will judge TH harshly for this catastrophic leadership failure and his lack of moral courage to respond in a timely and respectful manner to the membership.
George Orwell said "In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act." I think that pretty much encapsulates this entire issue. It would seem NO ONE in ANA leadership nor on the ANA Board HAS THE MORAL COURAGE to lead a revolution to fix the dysfunction. They would all simply prefer to "play it safe" and keep their benefits and status by hiding behind General Counsel and using the by-laws as a both a crutch and a double standard.
Rant #2 over....
ANA LM
USAF Retired — 34 years of active military service! 🇺🇸
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
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<< <i>I have not even received a ballot form. As a life member, I find that very disturbing. >>
I have also not received a ballot. I assume I will, eventually.
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<< <i>Got mine today. Walt Ostromecki's opening comment in his bio is particularly interesting. >>
It is laughable.
<< <i>Got mine today. Walt Ostromecki's opening comment in his bio is particularly interesting. >>
I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA.
Steve
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<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg
<< <i>as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April. >>
That's unfortunate.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg >>
Before or after Mr. Shevlin was let go?
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA. >>
I haven't read the statements yet, but as an FYI -- Candidate statements were due in early April.
Greg >>
If that represents Walt's statement in early April, then his grasp on the reality of the organization is weak at best. To write that as the decision to change the Executive Director was germinating seems to indicate either a Board member who was disengaged or ostracized. Then again, he is running unopposed so he can write and say anything he wants ... he just needs one vote and, presumably, he will at least vote for himself.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Got mine today. Walt Ostromecki's opening comment in his bio is particularly interesting. >>
I'm sure Walt is referring to Kim Kiick and her 32 years of good reliable and steady work at the ANA.
Steve
I was joking! Greg has the story right, I'm sure. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
NOTE: With the exception of Greg, please do NOT recommend any other incumbents. Any further votes I cast will be for non-incumbents.
Member ANA, SPMC, SCNA, FUN, CONECA