First of all the "his contract was not renewed" is a farce. Jeff was fired!
Cecilia >>
In my opinion, Jeff's contract was not renewed. He was not LEGALLY fired. In Colorado and in the rest of the USA we live based on laws and the interpretation of those laws. Clearly, the ANA believes thay simply decided not to renew Jeff's contract. I'm sure the lawyers tried to entice Jeff to sign documents that would minimize the public awareness of their action, but they just wanted Jeff out as executive director. I believe in the State of Colorado employment is "at will" between the employer and the employee and is also governed by any written contract. Jeff had such written contract and probably has legal rights for the period covered by that contract. As far as LEGALLY being able to persue a claim that he was wrongfully fired, I don't think he could be compensated for a period longer than the contract states. I'm not a lawyer, but that is the way I think it works, at least in the state of Colorado. Steve
Thanks. I notice that the bylaws require that the Executive Director have a BA or BS degree. From where did Kim Kiick get her degree and what was her major? I'm just curious. Has the ANA published a bio for their new Executive Director?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Thanks. I notice that the bylaws require that the Executive Director have a BA or BS degree. From where did Kim Kiick get her degree and what was her major? I'm just curious. Has the ANA published a bio for their new Executive Director? >>
I assume that the A.N.A. is an Equal Opportunity Employer and if they had advertised to give everyone an equal chance for employment, during the vetting process of the applications then they would have found out where she got her BS or BA degree.
But considering the Board of Governors like to do thing in the “dark of the night” with no transparency, we will never know what the educational requirements are.
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I think you might be onto something if Kiick doesn't have a BS or BA.She should be kicked out of the position if she does not have this credential.If she does,she deserves a level of respect and maybe the witch hunt can end for awhile.
What are the education requirements to be on board of Governors?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
What a “COP OUT”
Greg, what are you saying, if you don’t like the rules then you don’t have to go by them?
Is that the most recent published “Job Description” for the Executive Director that I posted? If so, then that is what the BOG should have followed. Why be a hypocrite about it, just come out and say that you feel the Board of Governors should be above the rules and that is why you feel there is no need for transparency.
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
Greg,
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Did you at least do your “Due Diligence” and asked if she met the requirements for the job according to the established job description before you took part in voting on the issue? Or were you just a sheep?
I tend to disagree with many of your answers. But I REALLY appreciate your willingness to continue to engage. To the best of my knowledge, only 1 ANA BofG member is banned from posting here. ( ) I wish some of your fellow members would think it worthwhile to post here. It seems somewhat "unfair" that you must take all grief being dealt.
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
Cecilia >>
Cecilia,
In all fairness, the Board of Governors do and should have the right to chance the requirements of any job description(s) within the A.N.A. but this should be done before the position in question is filled and not after the fact. Where is the sense of “fair play”?
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
Cecilia >>
Cecilia,
In all fairness, the Board of Governors do and should have the right to chance the requirements of any job description(s) within the A.N.A. but this should be done before the position in question is filled and not after the fact. Where is the sense of “fair play”?
Caleb >>
That is were "at will" comes in. I would think that they would need to take time and change the requirements so that they would be the same for all future applicants.
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
There are at least two people (Larry Shepherd and Jeff Shevlin) who know Kim Kiick and her background, and those two people apparently do not think she is qualified for the job.
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Could you find out what her educational background is? I assume the qualifications of the person filling the ED position isn't a secret from the dues paying members that are paying her salary. Thank you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Could you find out what her educational background is? I assume the qualifications of the person filling the ED position isn't a secret from the dues paying members that are paying her salary. Thank you. >>
You may have to sign a “Non – Disclosure Confidentiality Agreement" before you can find out that information.
I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in: >>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says). For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add: The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree. The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does.
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in: >>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says). For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add: The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree. The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does. >>
Dan---Thanks for expressing my thoughts exactly. I see Greg's participation here as primarily doing damage control for the ANA and find it to be self serving.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection? >>
Trying to answer your question, I found this on another website.....
Kiick first joined the ANA staff in 1982 at headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. Her career there has included the positions of executive assistant to executive director Edward C. Rochette, associate executive director of operations, membership and information technology operations manager and senior administrative manager.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in: >>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says). For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add: The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree. The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does. >>
The safe assumption is that she doesn't have a degree.
<< <i>Seems to me the more important issue here is the Board just willy nilly throwing their qualification list right out the window. >>
I just find it hard to believe that she didn’t have enough qualifications last time to even make it to be one of the finalists but this time the Board of Governors promote / hire without even advertizing? What changed? If she is such a great fit they why didn’t she get the position in June of 2012?
<< <i>Seems to me the more important issue here is the Board just willy nilly throwing their qualification list right out the window. >>
I just find it hard to believe that she didn’t have enough qualifications last time to even make it to be one of the finalists but this time the Board of Governors promote / hire without even advertizing? What changed? If she is such a great fit they why didn’t she get the position in June of 2012? >>
What changed?
Perhaps the current BOG realized they really wanted a 'yes' person in the ED position and not a real leader/independent thinker.....
I manage money. I earn money. I save money . I give away money. I collect money. I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
I think it is unfair to Greg to expect him to provide his personal views on certain ANA activities on a public forum IF he knows such views may be in conflict with the positions the entire board has taken, particularly on contoversal issues. We are very fortunate to have Greg here responding as he does. NO OTHER SITTING ANA BOARD MEMBER has ever participated on this board continuously for even a few months let alone almost two and a half years as has Greg. Much that we speak about here is obvious to most of us and I am sure is also obvious to Greg. Some of what we speak about here may be incorrect and Greg is trying to point out those things. I tend to accept Greg's specific explanations to certain specific points because I do not believe Greg would delibertly mislead those of us who are ANA members. I have told Greg in PM's that in my opinion he needs to keep an open mind regarding ALL future activities of the ANA, and I believe that he will. The point is, don't knock Greg just because you don't like the way he is communicating to us here. He really could shy away and then we would know much less than we now know and most of that would be just rumor and not fact. Steve
True grit. That's what biting dust is. Those who stand up for themselves have greater character for the simple fact that they face adversity before us all. Makes me proud to be among you all.
<< <i>I think it is unfair to Greg to expect him to provide his personal views on certain ANA activities on a public forum IF he knows such views may be in conflict with the positions the entire board has taken, particularly on contoversal issues. We are very fortunate to have Greg here responding as he does. NO OTHER SITTING ANA BOARD MEMBER has ever participated on this board continuously for even a few months let alone almost two and a half years as has Greg. Much that we speak about here is obvious to most of us and I am sure is also obvious to Greg. Some of what we speak about here may be incorrect and Greg is trying to point out those things. I tend to accept Greg's specific explanations to certain specific points because I do not believe Greg would delibertly mislead those of us who are ANA members. I have told Greg in PM's that in my opinion he needs to keep an open mind regarding ALL future activities of the ANA, and I believe that he will. The point is, don't knock Greg just because you don't like the way he is communicating to us here. He really could shy away and then we would know much less than we now know and most of that would be just rumor and not fact. Steve >>
I have to disagree with your comments. Greg is an elected official of the A.N.A. and as such should be willing to share his personal views supporting the action(s) he is (was) taking in the name of the ANA. It is thoughts like yours which leads to the lack of transparency that has become the mind set of the Board of Governors.
These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box.
These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box. >>
<< <i>These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box. >>
"Perhaps the current BOG realized they really wanted a 'yes' person in the ED position and not a real leader/independent thinker..... >>"
I think you hit the nail on the head. The current board wants to run the day to day operations of the ANA, they don't want a true leader.
Cecilia - In the sense that the BOG wants the ED to execute their instructions, you're probably right the they want a "yes man". Not that the ED can't suggest alternatives, but the BOG does have the last say, as they should. And as for being a leader, the ED is in charge of the staff, but not the organization's policies and strategies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It would be good if the entire board would be tuned in to all these comments. The future direction of the ANA MUST be based on what the general membership want it to be, not just what the current board wants it to be. My previous comments refer to how I view Greg's interaction with this coin forum, not how I view the total board's interaction with its members which I agree is currently VERY bad. Steve
Regarding the "debate" over Kim Kiick's qualifications and all, GregL's response nails it. I would only add that given the lack of success the ANA has had with the last few ED's, it does not surprise me that they went with a "known quantity" this time. The ANA does not need any more surprises, thank you very much.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Regarding the "debate" over Kim Kiick's qualifications and all, GregL's response nails it. I would only add that given the lack of success the ANA has had with the last few ED's, it does not surprise me that they went with a "known quantity" this time. The ANA does not need any more surprises, thank you very much. >>
Kim Kiick may or may not turn out to be a fine Executive Director. Whether or not a person has a college degree often has little bearing on their ability to perform their duties well.
But GregL's response does not "nail it", in my opinion. In fact, I find it extremely lacking.
GregL wrote that he does not know if Kiick has a college degree. If that is true, then why doesn't he know ? Where is the due dilligence that would be part of his duties in choosing a new Executive Director ?
And if he does know, but says that he doesn't, then that is an intentional lie.
GregL, nor anybody else here, seems willing to address this question: What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
<< <i>Regarding the "debate" over Kim Kiick's qualifications and all, GregL's response nails it. I would only add that given the lack of success the ANA has had with the last few ED's, it does not surprise me that they went with a "known quantity" this time. The ANA does not need any more surprises, thank you very much. >>
I’m not sure what you think Greg L “nailed” but it sure wasn’t anything on the issues!
I have no problem with the Board of Governors hiring Kim Kiick as the new ED, personally I like the idea of “promoting from within” but did the BOG advertize to all current employees that the opening was available if they wanted to put their name(s) forward? Was it fairly done? I am not questioning the promotion / hiring of Kim Kiick, just the process or lack of process and transparency that was utilized.
I do have to wonder what has happened to change the Board of Governors view(s) on the qualifications for the ED during the past thirteen months. If Kim Kiick wasn’t even one of the finalist that was interviewed for the last time the position of ED was filled then why is she qualified for the position now (especially considering it is the same make up of the Board of Governors)? Why the about face on this Greg? What has she added to her resume in the past thirteen months that wasn’t there before?
So you see Andy Lustig, I don’t see where you are coming from when you say that “over Kim Kiick’s qualifications and all, GregL’s response nailed it.” If he had “nailed” it, he would have explained why she is qualified this time and wasn’t last time – what / where is the difference.
...did the BOG advertize to all current employees that the opening was available if they wanted to put their name(s) forward? Was it fairly done? I am not questioning the promotion / hiring of Kim Kiick, just the process or lack of process and transparency that was utilized.
The ANA is not obligated to run their executive search in any particular way, and there's no obligation to give a fair chance to every employee. Their only obligation is to do the best they can at hiring someone that will do a good job, on terms that make sense. Isn't this what we (as members) want them to do?
I do have to wonder what has happened to change the Board of Governors view(s) on the qualifications for the ED during the past thirteen months.
The "qualifications" were never written in stone. Sure, the ANA might not have looked closely at an unknown candidate without a degree. But it's different when you are considering someone that has worked for you for decades, and whose skills, work habits and integrity are so well known that it practically doesn't matter how the rest of their resume reads. Frankly, this seems so obvious to me that I have to wonder about the sincerity of those who want to debate it.
If Kim Kiick wasn’t even one of the finalist that was interviewed for the last time the position of ED was filled then why is she qualified for the position now (especially considering it is the same make up of the Board of Governors)? Why the about face on this Greg? What has she added to her resume in the past thirteen months that wasn’t there before?
So you see Andy Lustig, I don’t see where you are coming from when you say that “over Kim Kiick’s qualifications and all, GregL’s response nailed it.” If he had “nailed” it, he would have explained why she is qualified this time and wasn’t last time – what / where is the difference.
I can't say I know what the Board was thinking. In fact, I didn't even know that KK applied for the job last time. (Did she?) Regardless, the Board is allowed to change its criteria and make their best decision. And they should be encouraged to learn from their own mistakes, and to try to do things better - and differently - this time.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
GregL, nor anybody else here, seems willing to address this question: What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
I don't know the answer to the question, but I do know that you would have to know when the thefts took place before you could know the answer. And it may be that only the thief (or thieves) knows when the theft took place.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>GregL, nor anybody else here, seems willing to address this question: What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
I don't know the answer to the question, but I do know that you would have to know when the thefts took place before you could know the answer. And it may be that only the thief (or thieves) knows when the theft took place. >>
I think a person who is familiar with the ANA situation (someone who interacted with the ANA continuously, or worked there) could make a good guess based on what is known. I'm not that person. But I would say that it probably took place some time during the Cipoletti executive directorship. That is what the Sheperd lawsuit filing indicates. What was Kim Kiick's job during that time ?
The Wyatt Yeager thefts are reported as having been taken place between January, 2007 and March, 2007 according to the US Dept of Justice. Therefore, if someone wants to know the employment status of Kim Kiick during at least some of these thefts, then the January through March 2007 window is at least one valid time frame.
A Coin World article states that Kim Kiick was Chief Operations Officer of the ANA in October, 2007 so she may have had that title during the Yeager thefts, but I do not know for certain. Interestingly, the article also quotes Tom Hallenbeck as saying Kim Kiick had been a semi-finalist during the interview process where Jeff Shevlin was hired.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
It's a little strange how this veil of "doing whats right" gets pulled out when the questions get tough.
The only trouble is, not even Jeff knows why he was fired. It's even more troubling that his "replacement" wasn't in the "final 4" so to speak.
Whatever, in 2 years, I expect some dramatic changes. Both In the board and in the staff.
IMO, the staff should have complained to Jeff First. If Jeff then chose to ignore their complaints, then and ONLY then should the BOD have allowed this "skip level" method of registering complaints.
Hopefully, Jeff and his legal advisors can get to the bottom of what REALLY happened.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
For a kid, you're pretty danged smart Caleb!
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
I tend to disagree with many of your answers. But I REALLY appreciate your willingness to continue to engage. To the best of my knowledge, only 1 ANA BofG member is banned from posting here. ( ) I wish some of your fellow members would think it worthwhile to post here. It seems somewhat "unfair" that you must take all grief being dealt. >>
If you are referring to Laura, she most definitely is NOT Banned. She simply chooses not to post.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
Greg >>
Correct, however Article IX Section 1 defines the "duties" of the Executive Director.
I would imagine that the "Qualifications" would be drafted by the BOG Hiring Committee around what would be needed (opinions of course) to fulfill those duties.
With the last Corporation I worked for, it was not uncommon for the BS or BA Degree requirements to be waived as long as the general opinion was that trackable job experience of the potential candidate within the Corporation was enough to fulfill the "duties" of a specific job description.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
You may be correct. I thought I recalled that Laura was banned (or bammed) a couple of years ago. But I could be wrong. It would be GREAT if she would post here to clarify the issue...
Comments
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
First of all the "his contract was not renewed" is a farce. Jeff was fired!
Cecilia >>
In my opinion, Jeff's contract was not renewed. He was not LEGALLY fired. In Colorado and in the rest of the USA we live based on laws and the interpretation of those laws. Clearly, the ANA believes thay simply decided not to renew Jeff's contract. I'm sure the lawyers tried to entice Jeff to sign documents that would minimize the public awareness of their action, but they just wanted Jeff out as executive director. I believe in the State of Colorado employment is "at will" between the employer and the employee and is also governed by any written contract. Jeff had such written contract and probably has legal rights for the period covered by that contract. As far as LEGALLY being able to persue a claim that he was wrongfully fired, I don't think he could be compensated for a period longer than the contract states. I'm not a lawyer, but that is the way I think it works, at least in the state of Colorado. Steve
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
Thanks. I notice that the bylaws require that the Executive Director have a BA or BS degree. From where did Kim Kiick get her degree and what was her major? I'm just curious. Has the ANA published a bio for their new Executive Director?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
Thanks. I notice that the bylaws require that the Executive Director have a BA or BS degree. From where did Kim Kiick get her degree and what was her major? I'm just curious. Has the ANA published a bio for their new Executive Director? >>
I assume that the A.N.A. is an Equal Opportunity Employer and if they had advertised to give everyone an equal chance for employment, during the vetting process of the applications then they would have found out where she got her BS or BA degree.
But considering the Board of Governors like to do thing in the “dark of the night” with no transparency, we will never know what the educational requirements are.
<< <i>Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg
What are the education requirements to be on board of Governors?
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
What a “COP OUT”
Greg, what are you saying, if you don’t like the rules then you don’t have to go by them?
Is that the most recent published “Job Description” for the Executive Director that I posted? If so, then that is what the BOG should have followed. Why be a hypocrite about it, just come out and say that you feel the Board of Governors should be above the rules and that is why you feel there is no need for transparency.
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>Does the ANA Bylaws have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director? Can someone post them or provide a link to them? >>
Is THIS what you are looking for? >>
The ANA Bylaws do NOT have a list of qualifications for the Executive Director. What was posted was the job description published prior to our last ED search.
Greg >>
Greg,
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
Cecilia
<< <i>
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Did you at least do your “Due Diligence” and asked if she met the requirements for the job according to the established job description before you took part in voting on the issue? Or were you just a sheep?
I tend to disagree with many of your answers. But I REALLY appreciate your willingness to continue to engage. To the best of my knowledge, only 1 ANA BofG member is banned from posting here. (
<< <i> Greg,
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
Cecilia >>
Cecilia,
In all fairness, the Board of Governors do and should have the right to chance the requirements of any job description(s) within the A.N.A. but this should be done before the position in question is filled and not after the fact. Where is the sense of “fair play”?
Caleb
<< <i>
<< <i> Greg,
In other words, you think that the qualification requirements should be able to be changed by the board at will?
Cecilia >>
Cecilia,
In all fairness, the Board of Governors do and should have the right to chance the requirements of any job description(s) within the A.N.A. but this should be done before the position in question is filled and not after the fact. Where is the sense of “fair play”?
Caleb >>
That is were "at will" comes in. I would think that they would need to take time and change the requirements so that they would be the same for all future applicants.
Cecilia
<< <i>
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
There are at least two people (Larry Shepherd and Jeff Shevlin) who know Kim Kiick and her background,
and those two people apparently do not think she is qualified for the job.
<< <i>
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Could you find out what her educational background is? I assume the qualifications of the person filling the ED position isn't a secret from the dues paying members that are paying her salary. Thank you.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>GregL---What is Kim Kiick's educational background? I assume that this isn't another secret. >>
I do not know as I was not on the personnel committee which review resumes and background for the Executive Director position.
However, if you know Kim and her background, she has enough knowledge and experience to be qualified for the position she know holds.
Greg >>
Could you find out what her educational background is? I assume the qualifications of the person filling the ED position isn't a secret from the dues paying members that are paying her salary. Thank you. >>
You may have to sign a “Non – Disclosure Confidentiality Agreement" before you can find out that information.
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in:
>>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says).
For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add:
The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree.
The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in:
>>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says).
For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add:
The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree.
The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does.
>>
Dan---Thanks for expressing my thoughts exactly. I see Greg's participation here as primarily doing damage control for the ANA and find it to be self serving.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I am of the opinion that Kim Kiick is part of the problem, if not at the center of the problem. >>
What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection? >>
Trying to answer your question, I found this on another website.....
Kiick first joined the ANA staff in 1982 at headquarters in Colorado Springs, Colo. Her career there has included the positions of executive assistant to executive director Edward C. Rochette, associate executive director of operations, membership and information technology operations manager and senior administrative manager.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
2) The link posted earlier today by Caleb was the job profile and preferred qualifications the Board listed when a full search was conducted in early 2012, and applied only to that search.
3) The job profile and preferred qualifications clearly state: "University degree (BA or BS), or equivalent". As in many job postings, previous work experience can and is often considered an equivalent to a degree. Kim Kiick has 31 years of experience at the ANA, including running the day to day operations from September 2011 through June 2012.
Greg >>
If anyone has "an axe to grind", it seems to be some people currently on the Board of Governors (Ostromecki and Mishler come to mind).
I haven't seen an answer to the important question that I'm interested in:
>>> What was Kim Kiick's official position with the ANA at the time coins were being stolen from the museum collection?
Regardless of how you slice it (with an axe), a lot of people apparently are furious with how the ANA Board of Governors has handled things.
To be honest, to me your posts here have the appearance of being standard BOG talking points, and not what you yourself think (despite what your signature line says).
For example, you dodge the question that Kim Kiick does not have a college degree ? I believe that you do know the answer to that question, and it is not priviledged information, but you still won't answer it.
In other words, I haven't learned anything that I didn't already know from your posts.
Edited to add:
The Board of Governors as a whole chose Kim Kiick to be the new Executive Director. If any particular board member does not know Kiick's education level, then they have not performed even the most basic due dilligence that should be expected of an ANA Governor.
The important issue here is not whether Kim Kiick has a college degree.
The issue is that one or more board members claim that they don't know if she does.
>>
The safe assumption is that she doesn't have a degree.
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<< <i>Seems to me the more important issue here is the Board just willy nilly throwing their qualification list right out the window. >>
I just find it hard to believe that she didn’t have enough qualifications last time to even make it to be one of the finalists but this time the Board of Governors promote / hire without even advertizing? What changed? If she is such a great fit they why didn’t she get the position in June of 2012?
<< <i>
<< <i>Seems to me the more important issue here is the Board just willy nilly throwing their qualification list right out the window. >>
I just find it hard to believe that she didn’t have enough qualifications last time to even make it to be one of the finalists but this time the Board of Governors promote / hire without even advertizing? What changed? If she is such a great fit they why didn’t she get the position in June of 2012?
What changed?
Perhaps the current BOG realized they really wanted a 'yes' person in the ED position and not a real leader/independent thinker.....
I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
"Perhaps the current BOG realized they really wanted a 'yes' person in the ED position and not a real leader/independent thinker..... >>
"
I think you hit the nail on the head. The current board wants to run the day to day operations of the ANA, they don't want a true leader.
Cecilia
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
<< <i>I think it is unfair to Greg to expect him to provide his personal views on certain ANA activities on a public forum IF he knows such views may be in conflict with the positions the entire board has taken, particularly on contoversal issues. We are very fortunate to have Greg here responding as he does. NO OTHER SITTING ANA BOARD MEMBER has ever participated on this board continuously for even a few months let alone almost two and a half years as has Greg. Much that we speak about here is obvious to most of us and I am sure is also obvious to Greg. Some of what we speak about here may be incorrect and Greg is trying to point out those things. I tend to accept Greg's specific explanations to certain specific points because I do not believe Greg would delibertly mislead those of us who are ANA members. I have told Greg in PM's that in my opinion he needs to keep an open mind regarding ALL future activities of the ANA, and I believe that he will. The point is, don't knock Greg just because you don't like the way he is communicating to us here. He really could shy away and then we would know much less than we now know and most of that would be just rumor and not fact. Steve
I have to disagree with your comments. Greg is an elected official of the A.N.A. and as such should be willing to share his personal views supporting the action(s) he is (was) taking in the name of the ANA. It is thoughts like yours which leads to the lack of transparency that has become the mind set of the Board of Governors.
These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box.
These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box. >>
<< <i>These secret meeting, behind closed doors, should be the exception not the norm of how business is conducted in the name of the ANA and if there is a conflict between the positions of the different members of the Board of Governors then the membership should be made aware of these differences so they can make an informed decision at the next ballot box. >>
Amazingly well said
I think you hit the nail on the head. The current board wants to run the day to day operations of the ANA, they don't want a true leader.
Cecilia - In the sense that the BOG wants the ED to execute their instructions, you're probably right the they want a "yes man". Not that the ED can't suggest alternatives, but the BOG does have the last say, as they should. And as for being a leader, the ED is in charge of the staff, but not the organization's policies and strategies. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
My Complete PROOF Lincoln Cent with Major Varieties(1909-2015)Set Registry
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>Regarding the "debate" over Kim Kiick's qualifications and all, GregL's response nails it. I would only add that given the lack of success the ANA has had with the last few ED's, it does not surprise me that they went with a "known quantity" this time. The ANA does not need any more surprises, thank you very much. >>
Kim Kiick may or may not turn out to be a fine Executive Director.
Whether or not a person has a college degree often has little bearing on their ability to perform their duties well.
But GregL's response does not "nail it", in my opinion. In fact, I find it extremely lacking.
GregL wrote that he does not know if Kiick has a college degree. If that is true, then why doesn't he know ?
Where is the due dilligence that would be part of his duties in choosing a new Executive Director ?
And if he does know, but says that he doesn't, then that is an intentional lie.
GregL, nor anybody else here, seems willing to address this question:
What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
<< <i>Regarding the "debate" over Kim Kiick's qualifications and all, GregL's response nails it. I would only add that given the lack of success the ANA has had with the last few ED's, it does not surprise me that they went with a "known quantity" this time. The ANA does not need any more surprises, thank you very much. >>
I’m not sure what you think Greg L “nailed” but it sure wasn’t anything on the issues!
I have no problem with the Board of Governors hiring Kim Kiick as the new ED, personally I like the idea of “promoting from within” but did the BOG advertize to all current employees that the opening was available if they wanted to put their name(s) forward? Was it fairly done? I am not questioning the promotion / hiring of Kim Kiick, just the process or lack of process and transparency that was utilized.
I do have to wonder what has happened to change the Board of Governors view(s) on the qualifications for the ED during the past thirteen months. If Kim Kiick wasn’t even one of the finalist that was interviewed for the last time the position of ED was filled then why is she qualified for the position now (especially considering it is the same make up of the Board of Governors)? Why the about face on this Greg? What has she added to her resume in the past thirteen months that wasn’t there before?
So you see Andy Lustig, I don’t see where you are coming from when you say that “over Kim Kiick’s qualifications and all, GregL’s response nailed it.” If he had “nailed” it, he would have explained why she is qualified this time and wasn’t last time – what / where is the difference.
The ANA is not obligated to run their executive search in any particular way, and there's no obligation to give a fair chance to every employee. Their only obligation is to do the best they can at hiring someone that will do a good job, on terms that make sense. Isn't this what we (as members) want them to do?
I do have to wonder what has happened to change the Board of Governors view(s) on the qualifications for the ED during the past thirteen months.
The "qualifications" were never written in stone. Sure, the ANA might not have looked closely at an unknown candidate without a degree. But it's different when you are considering someone that has worked for you for decades, and whose skills, work habits and integrity are so well known that it practically doesn't matter how the rest of their resume reads. Frankly, this seems so obvious to me that I have to wonder about the sincerity of those who want to debate it.
If Kim Kiick wasn’t even one of the finalist that was interviewed for the last time the position of ED was filled then why is she qualified for the position now (especially considering it is the same make up of the Board of Governors)? Why the about face on this Greg? What has she added to her resume in the past thirteen months that wasn’t there before?
So you see Andy Lustig, I don’t see where you are coming from when you say that “over Kim Kiick’s qualifications and all, GregL’s response nailed it.” If he had “nailed” it, he would have explained why she is qualified this time and wasn’t last time – what / where is the difference.
I can't say I know what the Board was thinking. In fact, I didn't even know that KK applied for the job last time. (Did she?) Regardless, the Board is allowed to change its criteria and make their best decision. And they should be encouraged to learn from their own mistakes, and to try to do things better - and differently - this time.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
I don't know the answer to the question, but I do know that you would have to know when the thefts took place before you could know the answer. And it may be that only the thief (or thieves) knows when the theft took place.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>GregL, nor anybody else here, seems willing to address this question:
What was Kim Kiick's position and duties at the time when thefts from the ANA Musem took place ?
I don't know the answer to the question, but I do know that you would have to know when the thefts took place before you could know the answer. And it may be that only the thief (or thieves) knows when the theft took place. >>
I think a person who is familiar with the ANA situation (someone who interacted with the ANA continuously, or worked there) could make a good guess based on what is known.
I'm not that person. But I would say that it probably took place some time during the Cipoletti executive directorship. That is what the Sheperd lawsuit filing indicates.
What was Kim Kiick's job during that time ?
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
It's a little strange how this veil of "doing whats right" gets pulled out when the questions get tough.
The only trouble is, not even Jeff knows why he was fired. It's even more troubling that his "replacement" wasn't in the "final 4" so to speak.
Whatever, in 2 years, I expect some dramatic changes. Both In the board and in the staff.
IMO, the staff should have complained to Jeff First. If Jeff then chose to ignore their complaints, then and ONLY then should the BOD have allowed this "skip level" method of registering complaints.
Hopefully, Jeff and his legal advisors can get to the bottom of what REALLY happened.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Whose fault is that? >>
If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?
Companies and non-profits - including the ANA - don't disclose details on personnel matters.
Greg >>
Greg,
Are you serious? Is this your attempt at humor? Personally I don’t find anything about this situation humorous but sad if anything.
To the question that you posed, “If you were disciplined at your job or laid off, would you really want your employer to make the details known publicly?” the short answer would be no. But I would expect the Board of Governors to follow the Bylaw and personnel policy of the organization and be given the chance to having a fair hearing where I could be told what I did wrong and have the opportunity to defend myself.
Did you give Mr. Shevlin this “due process”? Did you object to the Board of Governors action(s) where Mr. Shevlin was not being treated fairly by giving him a hearing before termination? How could you or any other member of the Board of Governors make a decision to terminate without hearing first hand the opposing side of the facts?
Bottom line is you and the Board of Governors took disciplinary action in violation of the A.N.A.’s bylaws without proper due process and I hope you are personally and financially held accountable.
If you are willing to take disciplinary action without even letting the employee know what he /she is being accused of doing and then terminating his / her employment without even giving the employee a chance to confront his / her accuser(s) or to give evidence in his / her own defense, then you should resign from the Board of Governors along with the other members.
Just my two cents on the subject >>
For a kid, you're pretty danged smart Caleb!
The name is LEE!
<< <i>GregL:
I tend to disagree with many of your answers. But I REALLY appreciate your willingness to continue to engage. To the best of my knowledge, only 1 ANA BofG member is banned from posting here. (
If you are referring to Laura, she most definitely is NOT Banned. She simply chooses not to post.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>I'm going to answer this topic once and for all, with facts. I'm not going to be goaded into a debate based on people who may have an ax to grind...
1) There are NO job qualifications listed for the Executive Director in the ANA Bylaws. The decision on who to hire as Executive Director is solely the responsibility of the ANA Board of Governors.
Greg >>
Correct, however Article IX Section 1 defines the "duties" of the Executive Director.
I would imagine that the "Qualifications" would be drafted by the BOG Hiring Committee around what would be needed (opinions of course) to fulfill those duties.
With the last Corporation I worked for, it was not uncommon for the BS or BA Degree requirements to be waived as long as the general opinion was that trackable job experience of the potential candidate within the Corporation was enough to fulfill the "duties" of a specific job description.
The name is LEE!
You may be correct. I thought I recalled that Laura was banned (or bammed) a couple of years ago. But I could be wrong. It would be GREAT if she would post here to clarify the issue...