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Another ANA Executive Director bites the dust...

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  • PioneerPioneer Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? It doesn't make sense for the ANA to have done this unless the board didn't like innovation in our hobby... or as everyone here has posted, there is a problem in the ANA. The ANA has many good programs, and it absolutely need to be of the highest ethics to represent our hobby to the public.
    So-Called Dollar Collector
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,296 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? It doesn't make sense for the ANA to have done this unless the board didn't like innovation in our hobby... or as everyone here has posted, there is a problem in the ANA. The ANA has many good programs, and it absolutely need to be of the highest ethics to represent our hobby to the public. >>



    I like this idea but it'll never happen. I've got a lot of thinking to do between now and when my membership renewal notice comes.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • ColonelJessupColonelJessup Posts: 6,442 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>..... The names change and yet similar problems crop up year after year. >>



    The names change and yet great work continues to be done. More than a few who've posted have enumerated them.

    I've heard not one single complaint about the lack of service or its delivery in this serial rant.

    Two years ago I offered to match all contributions up to $1000 in support of the Florence Schook School of Education. Set up a special account with ANA so contributions from the PCGS Forum could be credited and noted. Supplied name and address, etc.

    Other than dealers, NOT ONE FORUM MEMBER CONTRIBUTED A DIME..... BTW, Laurie contributed a full $1000 to get us over the top so I could match it..

    Many Forum members who are dealers have contributed time and money to ANA education and ANA YN scholarship funding.

    What have YOU done for your hobby lately?

    Rant on.....
    "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." - Geo. Orwell
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? It doesn't make sense for the ANA to have done this unless the board didn't like innovation in our hobby... or as everyone here has posted, there is a problem in the ANA. The ANA has many good programs, and it absolutely need to be of the highest ethics to represent our hobby to the public. >>

    An independent audit of what? IRS? What has the ANA done to make you think they have violated the tax code for a 501c3? Colorado AG? What criminal actions do you suspect?

    It's so easy to point fingers and "demand answers" but do you (the Royal you) really know the right questions to ask? Just because the membership wasn't consulted on a decision doesn't mean the membership gets to know all the details that went into that decision ... regardless if it's personnel or operations. The ANA is not a democracy. Want the "right" decisions to be made as defined by you? Then become active in the Association. On how many ANA committees do you serve? Want to make meaningful change? Run for governor.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • PioneerPioneer Posts: 80 ✭✭✭
    Fair enough.... I've been active in the ANA, attended Summar Seminar, contributed money too.... etc.... but that doesn't change the fact that a public service organization should be accountable to members.... OPENLY.... especially when it is in the tax status it is....
    So-Called Dollar Collector
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>An independent audit of what ? >>



    A full audit of ANA's assets (including coins, endowments, bank accounts) from the start of Cipoletti's tenure to the present.
  • streeterstreeter Posts: 4,312 ✭✭✭✭✭
    As Larry King used to say, "What do we know now?"

    In the last few years,

    Terrible internal theft
    Last three ED's let go with no public explanation
    IMO excessive legal fees regarding internal human resource problems

    And nobody can say a word.

    Well I'll be gosh darn.

    And it goes without saying that they completely missed the boat
    by having a membership drive in unison with the state quarter 10YEAR
    program. Who was the Einstein that missed that?
    Have a nice day
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,017 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I can not believe this has happened again.image


  • << <i><< I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? It doesn't make sense for the ANA to have done this unless the board didn't like innovation in our hobby... or as everyone here has posted, there is a problem in the ANA. The ANA has many good programs, and it absolutely need to be of the highest ethics to represent our hobby to the public. >>

    I like this idea but it'll never happen. I've got a lot of thinking to do between now and when my membership renewal notice comes. >>



    I hate to make this sound like a campaign, but you would have to elect at least five members to the Board who will vote to approve an independent accounting of the ANA. I know that a few of us not currently on the board but are running would be willing to vote for a full review. In fact, I sent letters to Numismatic News and Coin World for print saying that the ANA should hire an executive consulting firm who is not associated with the ANA in any way to review the organization's headquarters and governance.

    Another audit the ANA should have is a security audit of their computing systems. Last year at the World's Fair of Money there were problems with credit cards being purloined. The ANA even acknowledged it in a press release. Since then, the ANA website has had problem after problem. While there are technical issues with the website, I am not convinced that all of the issues are technical. As part of the ANA Technology Committee, I helped author a request for proposal and reviewed the responses urging the ANA to go forward with the security audit. It was cancelled around the time Jeff Shevlin was fired. Last Friday I sent a note to those concerned strongly urging for this audit to proceed.

    Quick background: Professionally, my job is working information security issues for the federal government. After more than 30 years in the industry and 20 in security, I have a sense of when something is not right. This is why I immediately objected to the security audit being cancelled.

    There are 14 candidates for seven board seats. Four of the candidates are incumbents. If you want the ANA to change, you have to vote all four incumbents out regardless of how they voted on this issue and replace them with members who will stop the shenanigans. The first test would be to ask them to support the review by an executive consulting company AND the security audit. if their answer anything but a full-throated YES, then don't vote for them!

    For the record, if elected I will vote for these reviews at the new board's first meeting and I will make the motion to have the reviews if they are not started prior to the new board's installation.

    Scott
    Scott Barman for ANA Board of Governors http://vote4scott.info
    Coin Collectors Blog http://coinsblog.ws
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i><< I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? It doesn't make sense for the ANA to have done this unless the board didn't like innovation in our hobby... or as everyone here has posted, there is a problem in the ANA. The ANA has many good programs, and it absolutely need to be of the highest ethics to represent our hobby to the public. >>

    I like this idea but it'll never happen. I've got a lot of thinking to do between now and when my membership renewal notice comes. >>



    I hate to make this sound like a campaign, but you would have to elect at least five members to the Board who will vote to approve an independent accounting of the ANA. I know that a few of us not currently on the board but are running would be willing to vote for a full review. In fact, I sent letters to Numismatic News and Coin World for print saying that the ANA should hire an executive consulting firm who is not associated with the ANA in any way to review the organization's headquarters and governance.

    Another audit the ANA should have is a security audit of their computing systems. Last year at the World's Fair of Money there were problems with credit cards being purloined. The ANA even acknowledged it in a press release. Since then, the ANA website has had problem after problem. While there are technical issues with the website, I am not convinced that all of the issues are technical. As part of the ANA Technology Committee, I helped author a request for proposal and reviewed the responses urging the ANA to go forward with the security audit. It was cancelled around the time Jeff Shevlin was fired. Last Friday I sent a note to those concerned strongly urging for this audit to proceed.

    Quick background: Professionally, my job is working information security issues for the federal government. After more than 30 years in the industry and 20 in security, I have a sense of when something is not right. This is why I immediately objected to the security audit being cancelled.

    There are 14 candidates for seven board seats. Four of the candidates are incumbents. If you want the ANA to change, you have to vote all four incumbents out regardless of how they voted on this issue and replace them with members who will stop the shenanigans. The first test would be to ask them to support the review by an executive consulting company AND the security audit. if their answer anything but a full-throated YES, then don't vote for them!

    For the record, if elected I will vote for these reviews at the new board's first meeting and I will make the motion to have the reviews if they are not started prior to the new board's installation.

    Scott >>

    Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer?
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    This question:
    What assets (coins, artifacts, equipment, accounts, etc) did the ANA own at the start of the Cipoletti tenure, and are they all accounted for now ?
  • tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,146 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    This question:
    What assets (coins, artifacts, equipment, accounts, etc) did the ANA own at the start of the Cipoletti tenure, and are they all accounted for now ? >>



    Sounds like smoebody knows smoething and they are being coy.
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    This question:
    What assets (coins, artifacts, equipment, accounts, etc) did the ANA own at the start of the Cipoletti tenure, and are they all accounted for now ? >>

    And how is that related to the Exec Director's contract not being renewed?
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,412 ✭✭✭✭✭
    You have to distinguish between a normal accounting audit and a forensic audit. The latter is useful when fraud is suspected. The former is used to ascertain whether an entity's financial statements fairly present an its financial condition, income statement, etc., or in the case of a non-profit entity, the flow of funds during a specified period.

    An accounting audit heavily depends on the reliability of an entity's system of internal accounting and administrative control(s). If said system is substandard, an accountant's opinion about an entity's financial statements may not be possible.

    There's a different skill set / emphasis involved in the two kinds of audits.
    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • LochNESSLochNESS Posts: 4,829 ✭✭✭
    I don't think the ANA staff or employees should be blamed for one person's wrongful actions (the grand theft, of which he was convicted). I also don't believe that theft continued (continues?)

    I was agreeing - or thought I was agreeing - to a consulting firm not an audit. When an organization has problems such as these, I think transparency is helpful. If that is not an option (as is apparently the case), then one should consider professional mediation and/or consulting.
    ANA LM • WBCC 429

    Amat Colligendo Focum

    Top 10FOR SALE

    image
  • dcarrdcarr Posts: 7,936 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    This question:
    What assets (coins, artifacts, equipment, accounts, etc) did the ANA own at the start of the Cipoletti tenure, and are they all accounted for now ? >>



    Sounds like smoebody knows smoething and they are being coy. >>



    Two seemingly-capable executive directors have been fired in rapid succession.
    That is what I know.

    Were they not performing their duties effectively, or were they asking too many questions ?
    That is what I don't know.
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nor I.
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • DrPeteDrPete Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭
    Sad to see another Executive Director being "let go." Obviously, most of us don't know why and probably never will.

    It appears good people (Shepherd and Shevlin) who know coins and have business-sense, have not been able to survive the environment.

    To me, something doesn't add up:

    1. The ANA seems to be doing its basic functions well and provides good services/product to the members.
    2. Highly regarded and respected individuals last very short times as Executive Directors, and leave under mysterious conditions. This has happened multiple times, too.
    3. The board seems to be made up of decent and respected individuals that are doing their jobs properly from what I can tell.

    Could there something about the ANA employees that make being the Executive Director a hornet's nest?

    It would seem a Director would have his goals aligned with members, the Board and the Staff. This doesn't seem like rocket science to me, nor something that would or should be hard to do. I could imagine some disagreements over certain goals or directions, but this is life and why meetings are held, to compromise to the best possible course.

    Something very strange is going on here. It just doesn't make sense to me.

    Dr. Pete
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 31,499 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Maybe I'll Drive downtown Thursday and talk with Tom Hallenbeck. I'm busy today, and it's supposed to snow here in Colorado Springs tomorrow.
    TD
    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sad to see another Executive Director being "let go." Obviously, most of us don't know why and probably never will.

    It appears good people (Shepherd and Shevlin) who know coins and have business-sense, have not been able to survive the environment.

    To me, something doesn't add up:

    1. The ANA seems to be doing its basic functions well and provides good services/product to the members.
    2. Highly regarded and respected individuals last very short times as Executive Directors, and leave under mysterious conditions. This has happened multiple times, too.
    3. The board seems to be made up of decent and respected individuals that are doing their jobs properly from what I can tell.

    Could there something about the ANA employees that make being the Executive Director a hornet's nest?

    It would seem a Director would have his goals aligned with members, the Board and the Staff. This doesn't seem like rocket science to me, nor something that would or should be hard to do. I could imagine some disagreements over certain goals or directions, but this is life and why meetings are held, to compromise to the best possible course.

    Something very strange is going on here. It just doesn't make sense to me. >>



    DrPete sums it up perfectly. By and large everyone seems well-intentioned, but for some reason it doesn't work in practice when you add it all up. I would bring in some management consultants to assure that the office dynamics are healthy.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    This question:
    What assets (coins, artifacts, equipment, accounts, etc) did the ANA own at the start of the Cipoletti tenure, and are they all accounted for now ? >>



    Sounds like smoebody knows smoething and they are being coy. >>



    Two seemingly-capable executive directors have been fired in rapid succession.
    That is what I know.

    Were they not performing their duties effectively, or were they asking too many questions ?
    That is what I don't know. >>



    Just how much of the goings on at the ANA do the members have a right to know about?
  • IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    Enough to keep them members. How much more nonsense from the ANA Board do we need
    to hear about before we abandon the organization? When you decline to renew the contract
    of an Executive Director that has been given all of 8 months to correct the ANA's problems, you
    are asking for concerns and skepticism from the membership.



  • << <i>Ah, the "throw the bums out" rhetoric begins again. While I am sure you are sincere, please explain what you mean by "an independent accounting" of the ANA. An independent accounting of what? What is the ANA doing that warrants a "full review?" What shenanigans? Rather than political campaigning and posturing, why not simply state the questions you think the ANA should answer? >>



    An independent accounting is being used as a verb in the context of "regarding." Accounting the full review in this context is the same as saying "regarding a full review." I apologize... it's spending too much time writing documents for the government that changes my writing style! image

    When one executive director is dismissed, you can say it was a problem with that person. When a second one is dismissed, it might be called an aberration. When a third is dismissed, it represents a pattern. There is a pattern from Cippoletti to Shepherd to Shevlin. We have an idea of what happened to Cippoletti because that case has come and gone. Shepherd's case is still in court and I am sure there's more than meets the eye. I don't know what Jeff Shevlin is going to do, but he's the third in a row. In fact, if you go back 16 years, SIX executive directors have been fired during that time. The only one not fired was Ed Rochette.

    Are you not curious as to why three executive directors in a row have been fired? I am. What about the record of six in the last 16 years? If we want to be fair, one of the "fired" executive directors was an interim executive director but was asked to leave before the next ED was hired. Doesn't this sound problematic to you? It does to me!

    I want a review of the operations of the ANA headquarters in Colorado Springs. I want to know what people are doing, producing, and what value they are producing for the ANA. I want to know if they are working with the executive director or against the executive director. I also want to know if there might be patronage jobs that may lead to a host of other problems, which is why the executive directors get fired.

    BTW: If you remember the stories surrounding Larry Shepherd's firing, there was an allegation that he gave his girl friend a job at the ANA. There were additional rumblings said about this with some unsubstantiated information. Shepherd answered saying that he did nothing wrong then stopped talking, probably on the advice of counsel. Are there similar relationships that could be working against the organization?

    For that matter, what is the board's involvement? Is the board micro-managing the organization or are they setting policies and letting the executive director do his job. Not long ago, there was a press release announcing that the board was hiring a firm to conduct a 360-review of Shevlin's job. This was due May 1 yet the firing came before May 1. Was the review completed? Was the review part of the decision? Was the review tainted by management decisions, the board, or any potential interactions or communications outside of normal channels?

    I want the management structure of the headquarters review.
    I want the management structure of how the board interacts with the headquarters and staff reviewed.
    I want to know if the employment policies of the headquarters are adequate (they were alleged not to be regarding Larry Shepherd) or need refinement.
    I want to know if something is interfering with the executive director's ability to do the job that needs to be explicitly stated in the ANA by-laws not to do that any more.
    I want to know if something happened during the term of Shepherd and Shevlin that might have been in violation of employment laws that caused their respective situations to get so bad that the board felt they had to fire both gentlemen.

    All it takes is a simple majority to remove an executive director or enact any motion. All the board needs are 5 members who will work to make the headquarters more transparent to the organization and to stop whatever it is that affect Shepherd and Shevlin because I find it difficult to believe, given the public evidence, that after an extensive interview process that both were fired within two years of each other.

    Think of it like a medial problem. The patient died, now we have to do the autopsy to determine why so we can learn to do better next time. It will take five board members to vote to allow the autopsy. Will those five votes come from the current board who voted Shepherd and Shevlin out? Let's let the current board put it to a vote and see who votes no. They will be the ones who the ANA members will have to worry about in the future.

    BTW: I am fully aware that if proven wrong this could hurt me as a candidate. I am willing to take that chance for the benefit of the ANA.

    Scott
    Scott Barman for ANA Board of Governors http://vote4scott.info
    Coin Collectors Blog http://coinsblog.ws
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Enough to keep them members. How much more nonsense from the ANA Board do we need
    to hear about before we abandon the organization? When you decline to renew the contract
    of an Executive Director that has been given all of 8 months to correct the ANA's problems, you
    are asking for concerns and skepticism from the membership. >>



    Well said.


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012


  • << <i>

    << <i>Enough to keep them members. How much more nonsense from the ANA Board do we need
    to hear about before we abandon the organization? When you decline to renew the contract
    of an Executive Director that has been given all of 8 months to correct the ANA's problems, you
    are asking for concerns and skepticism from the membership. >>



    Well said. >>



    Let me ask that you wait until after the World's Fair of Money in August before you make a decision about whether to abandon the ANA or not. I think there's still hope--but that depends on the message that the membership sends when they vote for members of the board.

    If you are going to the National Money Show in New Orleans, there will be an open board meeting on Friday, May 10. You should attend the meeting and put the question to the members at that time.

    After the meeting we can go for cafe au lait and beignets at Cafe du Monde in the French Market. It's a great place and I love going there when in NOLA!

    Scott
    Scott Barman for ANA Board of Governors http://vote4scott.info
    Coin Collectors Blog http://coinsblog.ws
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Do you really need all those governors, I believe there are about 11, I mean the U.S. has 50, so 11 is a lot, feels top heavy in that arena. >>



    "Board of governors" is a term sometimes applied to, and legally equivalent to, "board of directors."
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>Fair enough.... I've been active in the ANA, attended Summar Seminar, contributed money too.... etc.... but that doesn't change the fact that a public service organization should be accountable to members.... OPENLY.... especially when it is in the tax status it is.... >>



    The ANA is accountable to members in several ways.

    Most importantly, on the financial side, is our IRS Form 990 which is produced by an outside accounting firm which clearly states the ANA's financial position on a yearly basis. They can be found on the ANA's website here. The 2012 report will be made available within the next 30 days.

    Additionally, the ultimate accountability of the ANA Board is the election held every two years. If you don't approve of the decisions of the board, you have the right to vote for change.

    As I have stated before, I'm sure every member (and non-member) alike would like to know every single detail of every Board decision. However, just as every auction bid submitted to the ANA is not made public, employment & personnel decisions are not made public. This is not being secretive or trying to hide facts but rather a standard confidentially decision made by virtually all companies and non-profits alike.

    Like always, I welcome any questions or comments.

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I think every ANA member (like me) should demand an independent accounting of what is going on inside the ANA. I love the idea of an independent audit. If the board doesn't agree to it, I can only assume they are doing something illegal or unethical. What does one do to make this happen? Contact the IRS or the Colorado attorney general ? >>



    Pioneer, what makes you think the ANA has violated the Internal Revenue Code or Colorado law? Submit to an "independent audit" (basically a SEARCH) or
    we assume you are doing something illegal? That's the old Nazi/Soviet Union/Iron Curtain routine... not in America!!!
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't think the ANA staff or employees should be blamed for one person's wrongful actions (the grand theft, of which he was convicted). I also don't believe that theft continued (continues?)

    >>



    Of the $984,740 full retail coins stolen, 32 "important" coins have been returned, $750,000 insurance paid to the ANA, and any other coins are returnable
    if identified with no time limit. Other than lock the collection down where nobody can ever access it, looks like the ANA did better than many museums do after
    heists.
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If his contract was not extended, when was it supposed to expire? I thought he was an employee with no end date on the contract. It sounds like he was fired and people wont say that.

    The things I have heard make the board sound worse and worse.

    I think the board should have no communication with the staff. The board and staff communications seems to drive a lot of problems.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,313 ✭✭✭
    Scott,
    You sound like you mean business when posting on this board. I will be very interested to read your official comments about YOUR try for election when I get my ballot in June.
    Steveimage
  • halfcentmanhalfcentman Posts: 1,498 ✭✭✭
    Greg Lyon is a first-class individual that I have known for almost 30 years when he was a youngster (and I was just out of HS) at the Garden State and Great Eastern Numismatic Association Conventions in the mid-80's. I am first and foremost proud to call him my friend, and a very dedicated numismatist second.

    Throughout many topics that we have discussed regarding ANA and hobby-related issues, I have always considered Greg to be a "voice of reason."

    But he can only tell you what he can tell you - there are laws, whether we like them or not, when it comes to personnel matters.

    You would be very hard-pressed to find anyone more dedicated to the ANA and to having genuine interest in having a better future. He is only one vote, but he is an active ANA Governor commenting on what he can comment on.

    Look, we are all sickened by this fiasco. The fact that there are 100+ posts in this thread exemplifies that.

    Greg H.
  • CoinosaurusCoinosaurus Posts: 9,614 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    After the meeting we can go for cafe au lait and beignets at Cafe du Monde in the French Market. It's a great place and I love going there when in NOLA!

    Scott >>



    A man after my own heart - and stomach! Good to see we have our priorities in order image
  • CalebCaleb Posts: 739


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>Do you really need all those governors, I believe there are about 11, I mean the U.S. has 50, so 11 is a lot, feels top heavy in that arena. >>



    "Board of governors" is a term sometimes applied to, and legally equivalent to, "board of directors." >>



    Ok, and there are 50 Board of Directors governing our 50 states, whatever. The bottomline is do we need oall these board og governors to run the ANA. He have one governor running each State, a State is a lot bigger and more complicated than one ANA. Come Frank, you know where I am going with this, you are a smart guy....... >>



    Most business that are publicly traded have between 5 – 12 directors making up their boards, the ANA Board of Governors serve the same function. What is your point image
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    Ok, and there are 50 Board of Directors governing our 50 states, whatever. The bottomline is do we need oall these board og governors to run the ANA. He have one governor running each State, a State is a lot bigger and more complicated than one ANA. Come Frank, you know where I am going with this, you are a smart guy....... >>



    You seem to not know the difference between the governor of a state and the board members of a nonprofit organization.
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Read the bylaws. Then comment on the number of governors, length of term, etc. It's all in the bylaws. Don't like it? Work to change the bylaws. The organization belongs to the members, but only about 3-5% are active and only about 10-15% vote (if I recall correctly). More can be done than the "purging" of the "bums" in office every couple of years.

    Believe it or not, one of the positive things Cipoletti was doing for the organization was trying to create a more stable Board. But he received tremendous resistance from the Board and privileged "insiders" at the time. Changing leadership every two years is fine for a local club, but not an international organization. The ANA collectively forgets it's not a local coin club.

    And for those who want to disparage the staff or "investigate" their productivity ... volunteer at headquarters and see how hard they work and what they can accomplish with minimal resources. The staff doesn't work against the Executive Director, they work for the members.
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces


  • << <i>Scott,
    You sound like you mean business when posting on this board. I will be very interested to read your official comments about YOUR try for election when I get my ballot in June.
    Steveimage >>



    My "official" campaign information can be found at vote4scott.info. I will have a statement posted about this situation over the weekend.

    After this note, I'm going to calm down the commentary for now. There will be plenty of time to talk later. I will write about my trip to New Orleans on my blog coinsblog.ws.

    Astrorat:

    << <i>And for those who want to disparage the staff or "investigate" their productivity ... volunteer at headquarters and see how hard they work and what they can accomplish with minimal resources. The staff doesn't work against the Executive Director, they work for the members. >>



    I have been to Colorado Springs. Those who I have had contact with knows how I feel and I have said publicly that I have a tremendous amount of respect for them given the circumstances which they work. However, there is an indication of something more going on based on hearing similar (not the same) stories. Rather than acting on back channeled stories, I would rather have someone investigate than act on something unsubstantiated. If there is something wrong, it could be fixed. If there's nothing wrong the policies could be looked at to ensure that there would be no basis for the rumors again. When completed, it will give membership verified assurances that there is nothing to worry about from the folks in Colorado Springs.

    In this case, i am going to back to an old mantra: Trust, but verify! image

    Scott
    Scott Barman for ANA Board of Governors http://vote4scott.info
    Coin Collectors Blog http://coinsblog.ws
  • FrankcoinsFrankcoins Posts: 4,569 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Read the bylaws. Then comment on the number of governors, length of term, etc. It's all in the bylaws. Don't like it? Work to change the bylaws. The organization belongs to the members, but only about 3-5% are active and only about 10-15% vote (if I recall correctly). More can be done than the "purging" of the "bums" in office every couple of years.
    >>



    I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS!
    Frank Provasek - PCGS Authorized Dealer, Life Member ANA, Member TNA. www.frankcoins.com
  • astroratastrorat Posts: 9,221 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Scott,
    You sound like you mean business when posting on this board. I will be very interested to read your official comments about YOUR try for election when I get my ballot in June.
    Steveimage >>



    My "official" campaign information can be found at vote4scott.info. I will have a statement posted about this situation over the weekend.

    After this note, I'm going to calm down the commentary for now. There will be plenty of time to talk later. I will write about my trip to New Orleans on my blog coinsblog.ws.

    Astrorat:

    << <i>And for those who want to disparage the staff or "investigate" their productivity ... volunteer at headquarters and see how hard they work and what they can accomplish with minimal resources. The staff doesn't work against the Executive Director, they work for the members. >>



    I have been to Colorado Springs. Those who I have had contact with knows how I feel and I have said publicly that I have a tremendous amount of respect for them given the circumstances which they work. However, there is an indication of something more going on based on hearing similar (not the same) stories. Rather than acting on back channeled stories, I would rather have someone investigate than act on something unsubstantiated. If there is something wrong, it could be fixed. If there's nothing wrong the policies could be looked at to ensure that there would be no basis for the rumors again. When completed, it will give membership verified assurances that there is nothing to worry about from the folks in Colorado Springs.

    In this case, i am going to back to an old mantra: Trust, but verify! image

    Scott >>

    Well, Scott. You may have indeed been to Colorado Springs, but I worked on staff so I have a little understanding about the staff and what they do. Stop the vagaries of campaigning about "something is wrong and we must investigate" and state the specifics of your concerns. The organization needs leadership, not rhetoric. Step up and take the lead.

    Lane
    Numismatist Ordinaire
    See http://www.doubledimes.com for a free online reference for US twenty-cent pieces
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS! >>



    Actually, the biggest surprise being on the ANA Board is how few people contact you. I've probably had fewer than 20 people (who I don't know) contact me over the past 20 months. Even in light of the latest events, I've received only a handful of emails.

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS! >>



    Actually, the biggest surprise being on the ANA Board is how few people contact you. I've probably had fewer than 20 people (who I don't know) contact me over the past 20 months. Even in light of the latest events, I've received only a handful of emails.

    Greg >>



    I expect that most think that you wouldn't tell them what's going on anyway. Does make one wonder how well the board is vetting people who get the ED job.
  • blu62vetteblu62vette Posts: 11,900 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>

    << <i>I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS! >>



    Actually, the biggest surprise being on the ANA Board is how few people contact you. I've probably had fewer than 20 people (who I don't know) contact me over the past 20 months. Even in light of the latest events, I've received only a handful of emails.

    Greg >>



    I expect that most think that you wouldn't tell them what's going on anyway. Does make one wonder how well the board is vetting people who get the ED job. >>



    Since the board does 80% of it's meetings behind closed doors there is just not much he can say. Would be nice to have more access to board minutes and more open meetings.
    http://www.bluccphotos.com" target="new">BluCC Photos Shows for onsite imaging: Nov Baltimore, FUN, Long Beach http://www.facebook.com/bluccphotos" target="new">BluCC on Facebook
  • pruebaspruebas Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS! >>



    Actually, the biggest surprise being on the ANA Board is how few people contact you. I've probably had fewer than 20 people (who I don't know) contact me over the past 20 months. Even in light of the latest events, I've received only a handful of emails. >>


    The last Board member I spoke with was Cliff Mishler at the CICF show a few years ago. The reply to my concern was what I consider verbal diarrhea. Not something that I relish doing again.

    As others have said, the ANA functions in spite of it's board.
  • GregLGregL Posts: 470


    << <i>Since the board does 80% of it's meetings behind closed doors there is just not much he can say. Would be nice to have more access to board minutes and more open meetings. >>



    The only items which are discussed in executive session are legal issues, personnel matters and contracts. Minutes of Board meetings should be posted to the ANA website. I know they had been fairly good on posting those but I have not checked recently. I will check that again.

    Greg
    Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,713 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Read the bylaws. Then comment on the number of governors, length of term, etc. It's all in the bylaws. Don't like it? Work to change the bylaws. The organization belongs to the members, but only about 3-5% are active and only about 10-15% vote (if I recall correctly). More can be done than the "purging" of the "bums" in office every couple of years.
    >>



    I have been on the board of several nonprofit organizations. The biggest complaints come from people who
    are not even members. The 2nd biggest complainers are INACTIVE members. Never vote. Never attend meetings.
    Never write or call anyone on the board with any opionions or suggestions. But if the association board votes that your
    garbage cans need tight fitting lids -- we are COMMUNISTS! >>



    I can actually relate with the above statements to a point, as I have also been involved with nonprofits, including being an officer of a state numismatic association. Lots of talkers but not a lot of doers, everyone's an expert on how you should do this or that-until it comes time to get volunteers to help, then they all disappear.
    That said, I also know that the board members themselves can sometimes be huge pains...people with martyr complexes who think they're the only one who does any "real work", people who think that having a little power makes them God, others who will gladly tell you how to do YOUR job but seemingly can't do their own... yes, I am glad I'm out of that arena.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012


  • << <i>Well, Scott. You may have indeed been to Colorado Springs, but I worked on staff so I have a little understanding about the staff and what they do. Stop the vagaries of campaigning about "something is wrong and we must investigate" and state the specifics of your concerns. The organization needs leadership, not rhetoric. Step up and take the lead. >>


    Lane: I am doing my best as someone not on the board and not privy to the internal workings. I cannot be any more specific because the Board and the folks at headquarters are not being specific with me. All I know is what I have said here. If you have more information that I should know about, feel free to drop me a note so that I can be educated in the matter.

    BTW: Go back to my longer note (about 2 pages ago) and it has specific questions I want answered. I cannot get any more specific than what I wrote--unless you're trying to brow beat me because you are not in favor of my views? I don't mind that you're against what I am saying but please stop trying to characterize it as anything ore than wanting to do what is best for the ANA. I did mention that I could be wrong, but I won't know until the facts are made clear and I am willing to stake my candidacy on that. I said as much!

    Scott
    Scott Barman for ANA Board of Governors http://vote4scott.info
    Coin Collectors Blog http://coinsblog.ws
  • BsktmkrBsktmkr Posts: 30 ✭✭
    Since my name, Bill Hyder, has been mentioned here as a candidate I thought I should join and add my own perspective to this discussion. Some caveats, I participate in another board that has a core set of token and medal collectors, so I am new to the Collectors Universe but have long participated elsewhere.

    I am a candidate for the ANA board of governors, the chair of the web subcommittee of the ANA Technology Committee, and a friend and associate of Jeff Shevlin.

    I am concerned that something is amiss with the governance of the ANA given the long history of failed Executive Director appointments. I am concerned about the impact on the organization, its contribution to the rapidly declining membership base, and the potential for the loss of an important voice for the average collector. I chose to run for the board to help move the modernization of the ANA digital presence forward. I now find myself with an additional agenda.

    I endorse Scott Barman’s call for an independent management audit of ANA operations. After so many failed appointments, it raises the question that the problem might rest with the board or the staff and not the executive director. The board indicated it would hire a management consultant to work with Jeff Shevlin and themselves to ensure they developed a good working relationship. The board did not follow through with that plan which raises questions about whether they were serious about making the appointment work. Jeff relocated from California, bought a home in Colorado Springs, and his wife quit her job and gave up her retirement benefits in order to make Jeff’s appointment a success. The board wanted to see that to believe that Jeff was serious about making his appointment work. To be terminated in less than a year without the board making an effort to uphold their side of the commitment will make it difficult to convince the next potential hire that the ANA is serious about meeting its commitments.

    If you are an ANA member unhappy with the current state of association management, it makes little sense to quit. Instead, you should consider the fourteen candidates running for the board and vote for those you think will bring professionalism to association governance. Ask whether the current board members voted to keep or terminate Jeff. Their votes are a matter of public record. They can hide behind a pretense that personnel matters are confidential, but they said publicly the reason for termination was that Jeff was “not the right fit.” What does that mean? A new board will take their seats in a few months. If Jeff is the right fit with that board, will he be rehired? If not, would you take a job knowing you could be terminated because the board did not think you “fit? “

    If you are not a member, join and add your voice to those wanting to see positive change for the Association and the hobby in general. Whether you side with the incumbents or the challengers, vote. If you don’t vote, you have no reason to complain. And, everyone should demand to know how individual incumbents voted. We have a right to know how they voted. If they do not want to reveal their vote, then they should not be re-elected, even if running unopposed.
    ANA E-1059458
  • IrishMikeyIrishMikey Posts: 1,561 ✭✭✭
    What if the ANA advertised for a new Executive Director and no one applied? If things keep going
    on their present course, this could happen.
  • BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 30,977 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sounds to me like the whole organization could benefit from a good housecreaning.

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