Great Southern Coins
Beerock
Posts: 71 ✭✭✭
I need some help and advice as to how I should proceed. Myself and my father purchased a fair number of coins from GSC up until about a year ago. I had a number of the more expensive/tougher coins graded and the majority came back as details for one reason or another. They were described as Gem BU, etc. and I know that I should have known better but we were new to collecting higher end coins and this was prior to people posting here. Anyways fast forward to November of 2017. I had been in touch with them when I received all of those coins back and I contacted them with my concerns and let them know how unhappy I was. They agreed to try and make things right so I sent 14 coins back to them purchased for a substantial amount of money. They drug things out and finally agreed to refund a little over half of them back to us in St. Gaudens. It took from November until February to finally get this going. My problem now is they kept one of our $3 gold pieces and said they had resubmitted it for us because they thought it would grade. They also still owed us around $1050 that was supposed to be refunded to us in MS64 or MS65 morgans at an agreed price per coin. They have not done either and have been giving us the run around and are now not responding to emails etc. I realize we screwed up dealing with them in the first place but I do not want to let them get away with this. The money we are down was the cost of a valuable education/lesson. I have documents from them showing they still owe us the coin and the credit. To any of you still dealing with them beware. They even broke a 1795 Flowing hair dollar we returned to them from the slab and had it listed again before they had refunded us for it. I have the picture of the auction and the truview to prove it. Any feedback is appreciated and once again I know we screwed up and I've come to terms with this but they are stooping to new levels at this point by blatantly stealing our property.
Comments
"""The money we are down was the cost of a valuable education/lesson."""
Good way to phrase it.
Only purchase slabbed coins if you are new to collecting. Expensive lesson. I hope they make it right. Good luck.
You got off lucky. Most don’t
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I certainly would ask for money back instead of "other" coins in return for "bad" coins.
Best of luck...
Later, Paul.
I noticed a long time ago they sell mostly ungraded coins and they always got top dollar for them. you could tell by the pictures they were cleaned coins
How did you pay for your coins was it with a credit card?
Paypal, I'm in the process of filing a claim with them and Ebay now. We definitely learned our lesson and the money is not a big deal to us. Being taken advantage of and them now returning our property is. Thanks for the encouragement and I'm glad I didn't let this ruin my enjoyment of coins.
I did contact the ANA and was told that neither the Owner Jacob Chandler or Bobby Esparza are members so there was nothing they could do.
Just to clarify, you purchased all these coins more than a year ago and are just now in the past 6 months trying to return them?
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Another Great Southern Coins caper. Bump to the top so everyone know to avoid them.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
I'll try to put this as nicely as I can. I did business with them once. (A lot of their coins do get high prices, but strangely, you see them for sale again quite frequently. Judge for yourself what that means.) The coin I received was...not as described. I returned it and they dragged the process out as long as they could before finally refunding me. Never again.
It's because of nonsense like this that the major grading services became extremely popular with collectors. Buying coins at one grade and then reselling them at a higher grade was the norm back then as was buying problem coins (cleaned, tooled, damaged, fake, artificially toned, etc) and then selling them as problem free coins. I avoid those dealers whose inventory has mostly expensive raw coins since those coin are usually raw for a reason. Caveat emptor definitely applies to the coin industry.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Best of luck !!!
Why did you wait a year? Just curious?
HAPPY COLLECTING
Sometimes a friendly letter from an attorney is helpful. Keep on them through PayPal, but most of all, just tell everyone you can to stay away from them - they're bad news.
Check out my current listings: https://ebay.com/sch/khunt/m.html?_ipg=200&_sop=12&_rdc=1
Be sure to offer paypal and ebay your proof of discussions. Keep any further contact documented. Good luck. They have the advantage due to time of claims. If they stall until you are so aggravated you settle for half, they win. Insurance companies, both medical and auto, have done this for years. If you only lose $1050 and then learn from this as a numismatic lesson, then you will win in the long term. It might save you many times that in the future. Just my advice, don't ever, ever tell anyone you don't need the money.
Good luck.
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
Besides what has been mentioned here so far, be sure to keep on them so they know you are not going away.
Since you found what may be the best source of coin info here on these forums, I think it goes without saying to search or post a question here before buying from a new source. That should make the hobby fun again.
File a complaint with your state AG or consumer affairs and maybe also the state GS is in too. Post concerns online; ebay has a lot of forums, Rip off report has reports like this too; so that when people research them the problems pop up. Legal shield is $28 to join then $17 or so a month and you get lawyers in their jurisdiction to contact them, no extra charge, with possible remedies.
Before buying anything raw from GSC, go to the HA archives and look at the details slabbed coins for whatever coin you are considering. In my experience, many of their raw coins claimed as Gem BU, well, you can guess what I am saying here.
Best, SH
Good educational thread!
if your looking for a different vendor, try apmex, they sell graded pre-33 gold on specials they give for just over spot
BLUF: Education is expensive.
I made a few raw purchases through them back in the day, and when I received them, there were all sorts of 'issues" with them that even I could identify. I returned them without any problem and they were put back on ebay post-haste. I have heard/read that they have some really nice coins that were incorrectly identified as MS when they turned out to be proofs, a Buffalo Nickel comes to mind from a forum member (at least I think it was from GS). I steer away from them ever since my experiences with GS...especially since I have been "blocked" from bidding for informing them that some of their listings were incorrect on a couple of occasions. We all learn the hard way at times, and you were fortunate to be able to recoup some of your losses, other may have not been so lucky.
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Sorry to hear of your issues. This group has been flagged here before. I have not done any business with them, but I know that we have seen stories similar to yours posted here over the years. Good luck with your case... Cheers, RickO
call them, here's a link to their site with contact info.
https://greatsoutherncoins.com/about-us
People wonder why I am so hard about grading and not accepting the grades that are on slabs and supported by stickers at face value. On a smaller scale I learned the lesson that @beerock has learned here in the early 1970s. During that time I bought my first Three Dollar Gold piece and some other more expensive coins.
When dealers are selling coins to you everything is great. The coins are "properly grade" and don't have any problems. When you get ready to sell them, that's when you learn the truth. Then there are all sorts of problems and excuses. I learned to check the edges and the surfaces, and more than anything else, I learned how to grade.
I got my start with the old Brown and Dunn books from the 6th grade through high school, but I really started to learn with "Photograde" and by really looking a many, many coins. Yes, "Photograde" had its faults, but once I took those into account and learned to use basic concepts of grading, I got on the right. track. I have also have been lucky in that I have a sort of eye for coins and can spot which pieces are attractive and which coins are not.
I think that every collector should try to sell a coin now and then to see how they are doing. Don't be intimidated by rejection. You are going to get a lot of it. But you learn by your mistakes and also from study materials.
The first Three Dollar Gold piece I bought had been mounted. The only way to tell that was to look at a tiny spot on the edge where the reeding had been damaged and replaced. Catherine Bullowa pointed that out to me. Other coins had been cleaned. Still others had corrosion, and corrosion is not limited to copper. Silver corrodes too. Even gold coins can be damaged by chemical means if the conditions are right. I learned that corrosion on copper-nickel coins like Flying Eagle Cents is black. I learned by my mistakes and I listened to those I respected.
What is the ideal situation when you are selling to a dealer? It’s when you have coin that has no faults for the grade assigned, and you know it. Then the only excuses are the price or perhaps the dealer can’t use it in his or her inventory. All the rest of the stuff is just BS, and believe me, a lot of dealers can be full of BS when they are trying to hammer you down to a lower buying price.
I can't add anything of substance that might further your cause, but I read your post last night prior to anyone responding to it and, being a very long time member of these boards who has witnessed a couple-o-three similar threads, two thoughts kept going through my mind. They are that, if you intend to follow through on participating in this discussion you should have a thick skin and that you should strap in because it just might be a bumpy ride.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In my opinion, I suggest you keep at it and never give up. Log calls and document conversations. Save all emails, any correspondence. Send them a registered letter... REGISTERED, not certified, detailing what they still owe you. Save a copy and send one every week until they do what they said they would do. Call, Email, text, write. etc...Make it part of your daily routine, afterwords forget about until the next day and enjoy your life. Do not let these people affect your life, it is way to short...
Lots of good fair dealers out there, and one like this hurts them all. Takes a lot of attaboy's to make up for one dumb ass.
If you sell a raw coin on eBay and the buyer doesn’t get it in the holder they want do you have to take it back months later?
Or if you buy raw on eBay and and the coin comes back details does that mean you should be able to return it, it even months later?
Know that if you accept sight unseen 64/65 Morgans as repayment, they will be the 64/65’s that nobody loves.
I'm surprised they were willing to negotiate at all. If it was me, I'd insist on wrapping this up, one way or another as quickly as possible. The longer it drags out, the more you'll dwell on it and the greater the chance of it ending up even worse. A simple letter from an attorney might "wake them up" enough to at least get back coins that you own.
Is this the company in question? https://greatsoutherncoins.com
that's their web sight, they probably sell more on e bay, more exposure. I myself have never bought from them
I really have no sympathy for you guys and neither should anyone else.
Who in their right minds goes out and spends several thousand dollars on coins when they have no idea what they’re looking at?
You’re lucky GSC has refunded you anything, although from what you say it does sound they’ve kinda gone off the rails of the agreed deal.
But I wouldn’t go out and buy a used airplane and cry foul on the seller when it doesn’t work. I don’t know anything about how planes work.
GSC...
I would research legal precedent on cases like this; the relevant documents are what statements they made as to the grade, there are objective criterias with even raw coins, so if they say "gem", "unc", etc. and the coins are in fact culls, problem and vastly overgraded, they are liable for the fraud. The time frame may have some bearing depending on the UCC, federal and state laws. Companies like Accugrade have ended up in court on their problem coins in high grade holders and the judge ruled against them.
I have only two thoughts on this manner.
Firstly, I sincerely hope everything works out for you.
Secondly, what in the world are you doing purchasing high end coins with very little numismatic knowledge AND with a little detective work before your purchases, you could have avoided this seller because of their known past history.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Why are you buying expensive raw coins? Did it ever occur to you there may be a good reason they aren’t slabbed?
Numismatic Investment is risky especially with big ticket coins. There is no easy money in this market.
No sympathy for you. You brought this on yourself.
Stick to PCGS coins and I would suggest bullion material MS69 close to melt.
NEVER trust a dealer self grading expensive coins unless you know the dealer well and have an established relationship (kind of a catch 22). Too many dealers are either ignorant, or more likely somewhat dishonest in their grading. This is why NGC and PCGS exist unfortunately.
Sorry about your losses though, and thanks for sharing your experience with this dealer. Everyone should share dealer experiences like this to expose those who over grade raw coins.
I don't think so, or would at least hope not...UNLESS the buyer and seller have a mutual agreement PRIOR to the sale. I have had this type of agreement before, bought raw and submitted as such to have it certified. If the coin came back with a "details" moniker the seller would refund my money. Fortunately I only had to send back one, in it's PCGS holder back to the seller.
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There's just too much quality slabbed material available out there to be buying this stuff raw. Especially online.
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I’m so sorry this has happened to you and your dad. I’ll bet it’s just a horrible feeling. Yes you’ve learned a hard lesson in coin collecting. You can not trust some people in this world and GSC is most definitely one of them.
All I can say is keep at it and stay I they’re ear. If no results then maybe take the legal route. I wish you the best of luck my coin brother.
At the office, we have various internet filters in place to keep people off various types of sites.
I tried to follow the link to Great Southern Coin.
Here's a partial screen shot of what came back:
What good is a lawyer going to do? They could not be more clear about the coins they sell RAW. They even tell you to buy certified if you do not know what you are doing. Here it is:
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Ok, I'll modify my previous recommendation....NEVER buy an ungraded coin from ANYONE sight unseen! Trying to accurately grade a coin from a photo is sketchey even for experts. It's tough enough to get a good feel for a TPG coin from photos alone.
Unfortunately GSC probably has a lot of practice dealing with these exact situations. Likely the reason for the waiver in all the items they sell.
Collector, occasional seller
IMHO too much placed in single basket given the un-seen promise...a predicament buyer could've avoid by exercising good common sense.
Too bad, we see these thread way too often, I bet GSC even reads these boards from time to time.
Good luck, and I am glad you were able to recoup some of your losses.
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First, I hope the OP is made whole.
Next...to all the folks here who can't believe how the OP and his pops could spend thousands of dollars on junk coins over a long period of time from the internet...all you have to do for your answer is read what the OP wrote himself..."the money is not a big deal to us." Haven't you seen how people act in department stores with that same mentality???...Think Rodney Dangerfield in Caddyshack