@amwldcoin said:
Send em a link to this discussion!
@Beerock said:
Thanks for all of the feedback. I posted here for 2 reasons. 1. To help new collectors such as myself avoid making the same mistakes. 2. They have my coin and owe me credit and have had plenty of time to get them to me. I already stated several times that I paid the price of admission for the lessons I've learned and I don't expect them to take back any other coins. My question was for feedback on what I can do to get what is rightfully mine back. I have contacted the BBB and done a few other things and GSC has responded and has stated they are in the process of taking care of this. I have heard this before and hope to get this wrapped up once and for all in the near future. Once again, thank you for all of the feedback, be it constructive or not, and thank you all for sharing your knowledge on this site.
I'm guessing they're already aware of this discussion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
@joebb21 said:
To play devils advocate here for a second- did GSC really do anything wrong?
They are selling problem coins, knowing that they are problem coins, without disclosing that they are problem coins. In my book that's wrong. It puts them at the bottom of the stack when you start stacking up dealers.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
GSC is an opportunist looking to prey on uninformed collectors. They systematically look to bring problem coins to market and present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder) is withheld. It is like buying a home and having a disclosure form. The house has asbestos...if that information is known it must be disclosed. While grading is subjective, the absence of disclosure is an issue with GSC and would be considered unethical in other markets.
Defending them based on their return policies etc ignores the fact that the people that they are selling to generally do not have the ability to differentiate problem coins from the rest of the population. 30 days is irrelevant in that context.
@Boosibri said:
GSC is an opportunist looking to prey on uninformed collectors. They systematically look to bring problem coins to market and present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder) is withheld. It is like buying a home and having a disclosure form. The house has asbestos...if that information is known it must be disclosed. While grading is subjective, the absence of disclosure is an issue with GSC and would be considered unethical in other markets.
Defending them based on their return policies etc ignores the fact that the people that they are selling to generally do not have the ability to differentiate problem coins from the rest of the population. 30 days is irrelevant in that context.
Besides all the well known ugliness mentioned throughout this thread, they (GSC) are also rampant employers of shill bidding. The only time I would even consider bidding on one of their listings is if it were a cherry-pick situation.
@Boosibri said:
GSC is an opportunist looking to prey on uninformed collectors. They systematically look to bring problem coins to market and present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder) is withheld. It is like buying a home and having a disclosure form. The house has asbestos...if that information is known it must be disclosed. While grading is subjective, the absence of disclosure is an issue with GSC and would be considered unethical in other markets.
Defending them based on their return policies etc ignores the fact that the people that they are selling to generally do not have the ability to differentiate problem coins from the rest of the population. 30 days is irrelevant in that context.
Besides all the well known ugliness mentioned throughout this thread, they (GSC) are also rampant employers of shill bidding. The only time I would even consider bidding on one of their listings is if it were a cherry-pick situation.
Subprime used car dealers are what they are and educated consumers with good credit typically avoid them. That said they fill a niche that is needed for the whole market.
Just as there are diamond dealers in the crappy malls on the edge of town. Should we shutter them and steer everyone to Tiffany? You guys are looking at them from of the top of the market wondering why everyone doesn’t just go to Legend or CRO. It is a little daft and out of touch. I concede the point that even with the premium of those dealers one gets better value.... if they are educated and willing to play at that level.
If the market had a better option it would be filled by that option. As long as there are price shoppers there will be “bulk/crap” sellers. At least GS sticks to a pattern and is predictable. All you can really ask for
I disagree with Boosibri for a change. Grades are opinions and dealers get opinions thrown at them all day every day by every vest pocket and tire kicker. Who are we to say which ones they have an obligation to pass on to the detriment of their profit. Does a cereal manufacturer owe it to their customers to mention that X or Z big box doesn’t carry them because they consider them low quality?
Even TPG detail grades/opinions are fickle, I have had so many coins go from graded to details and the other way. Do I owe it to buyers in the future to tell them a coin used to be in the under-grade holder? A details-cleaned holder before the XF CaC it sits in now?
Now if there was a hole or something obvious, 30 days to make up your owe mind is better than most other dealers out there.
"...present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder)..."
This would only be relevant if the grading company in question doesn't make mistakes. I've cracked details coins out of NGC holders and gotten straight grades at PCGS. So who's opinion was wrong? If it was NGC's why is it necessary to provide it to a prospective buyer?
@MasonG said:
"...present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder)..."
This would only be relevant if the grading company in question doesn't make mistakes. I've cracked details coins out of NGC holders and gotten straight grades at PCGS. So who's opinion was wrong? If it was NGC's why is it necessary to provide it to a prospective buyer?
Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw.
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
If I crack out a details holdered coin because I think the TPG opinion is wrong and sell it before I send it to a different TPG for their opinion, it's still the same coin. Of course, if the idea is that some peoples' opinions are more important than others, that would make a difference. But then, on the other hand, if the coin would have graded at the second TPG, whose opinion of the three is the least useful- the first TPG, mine or the second TPG?
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
And one more thought... suppose the coin was submitted to the second TPG instead of the first and never received a details grade. It's still the same coin.
@MasonG said:
"...present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder)..."
This would only be relevant if the grading company in question doesn't make mistakes. I've cracked details coins out of NGC holders and gotten straight grades at PCGS. So who's opinion was wrong? If it was NGC's why is it necessary to provide it to a prospective buyer?
Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw.
Yes the seller taking the risk and paying the grading fees. Only difference
The raw option let’s the buyer’s imagine play up the rewards and down play the risks. Buyer beware
So! Are you affiliated with Great Southern Coins????
@MasonG said:
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
If I crack out a details holdered coin because I think the TPG opinion is wrong and sell it before I send it to a different TPG for their opinion, it's still the same coin. Of course, if the idea is that some peoples' opinions are more important than others, that would make a difference. But then, on the other hand, if the coin would have graded at the second TPG, whose opinion of the three is the least useful- the first TPG, mine or the second TPG?
@MasonG said:
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
If I crack out a details holdered coin because I think the TPG opinion is wrong and sell it before I send it to a different TPG for their opinion, it's still the same coin. Of course, if the idea is that some peoples' opinions are more important than others, that would make a difference. But then, on the other hand, if the coin would have graded at the second TPG, whose opinion of the three is the least useful- the first TPG, mine or the second TPG?
Very informative thread for a newb. I had some of their coins on my watch list. This thread and the fact that I live in Texas ( sales tax) has made me rethink bidding.
W.C.Fields "I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
@MasonG said:
"...present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder)..."
This would only be relevant if the grading company in question doesn't make mistakes. I've cracked details coins out of NGC holders and gotten straight grades at PCGS. So who's opinion was wrong? If it was NGC's why is it necessary to provide it to a prospective buyer?
So have I and NGC got it right by conservatively judging cleaned coins. All that means is PCGS is looser with messed with coins, which is why I sent it in.......
"All that means is PCGS is looser with messed with coins, which is why I sent it in......."
If it was only that simple, but that doesn't explain the PCGS details coins that get straight grades at NGC or the coins NGC says are cleaned first time through, but get grades after being cracked and resubmitted.
@MasonG said:
"All that means is PCGS is looser with messed with coins, which is why I sent it in......."
If it was only that simple, but that doesn't explain the PCGS details coins that get straight grades at NGC or the coins NGC says are cleaned first time through, but get grades after being cracked and resubmitted.
Then GSC should get the second professional opinion BEFORE selling the most likely problem coin raw. At a minimum a seller should disclose the professional opinion when the coin has been removed from a slab that points out the problem with the coin. After all, they sell graded coins at a premium based on these professional opinions.
Dealers should not sell a coin, without disclosure, as "uncertified" when that coin was previously certified to have a problem. Quite frankly, I feel such a practice is nothing short of dishonest.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
I disagree with Boosibri for a change. Grades are opinions and dealers get opinions thrown at them all day every day by every vest pocket and tire kicker. Who are we to say which ones they have an obligation to pass on to the detriment of their profit.
Least we forget, PCGS/NGC provide PAID professional opinions. If collectors did not value their opinions they would not be paying top dollar for them. If I'm buying a raw coin that was removed from a problem PCGS/NGC holder I have every right to expect disclosure of that professional opinion by the seller.
Note that the seller of a house is required to disclose known defects of that house. A reputable coin dealer should do the same.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
@derryb said:
if GSC lists a coin that they know PCGS/NGC has decided was a counterfeit should GSC disclose the problem with the coin?
then why are all other PCGS/NGC determined problems with a coin exempt from disclosure by the seller?
You have been on this chat board and (presumably into coins for years) to amass nearly 25000 posts. You should know there is a huge difference between knowingly selling a coin that PCGS and NGC deemed COUNTERFEIT and knowingly selling one that PCGS and NGC deemed as simply having a problem. These 2 cases aren't even from the same planet. Especially given that GSC guarantees the coins they sell are genuine. One of your examples is fraud, and the other is not. They never make a claim of the grade. It's really unfair to use one of those 2 cases to make a claim about what they should do for the other.
Edit: To extend your analogy yet again to another ridiculous extension, if you buy a coin at MS 65 and get it upgraded to MS 66, do you need to disclose that it was originally in an MS 65 holder and that it took 5 tries to upgrade it to 66 and that it was rejected by CAC? No, it's ridiculous.
@derryb said:
if GSC lists a coin that they know PCGS/NGC has decided was a counterfeit should GSC disclose the problem with the coin?
then why are all other PCGS/NGC determined problems with a coin exempt from disclosure by the seller?
You should know there is a huge difference between knowingly selling a coin that PCGS and NGC deemed COUNTERFEIT and knowingly selling one that PCGS and NGC deemed as simply having a problem. These 2 cases aren't even from the same planet.
Agree, huge difference between a counterfeit coin and a lesser problem coin. No difference that both are the opinion of professional graders. Opinions of professional graders (PCGS/NGC) should be disclosed for any listed coin that has been removed from a problem holder regardless of the degree of the problem. A seller who tries to increase his sell price by hiding a problem (the TPG's opinion) is being unethical.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
@derryb said:
if GSC lists a coin that they know PCGS/NGC has decided was a counterfeit should GSC disclose the problem with the coin?
then why are all other PCGS/NGC determined problems with a coin exempt from disclosure by the seller?
You should know there is a huge difference between knowingly selling a coin that PCGS and NGC deemed COUNTERFEIT and knowingly selling one that PCGS and NGC deemed as simply having a problem. These 2 cases aren't even from the same planet.
Agree, huge difference between a counterfeit coin and a lesser problem coin. No difference that both are the opinion of professional graders. Opinions of professional graders (PCGS/NGC) should be disclosed for any listed coin that has been removed from a problem holder regardless of the degree of the problem. A seller who tries to increase his sell price by hiding a problem (the TPG's opinion) is being unethical.
I couldn't tell if you were advocating them as the same. I'll take away my disagree next time I'm on my computer (posting from mobile now - edit looks like I was able to take it back on mobile). My apologies. Glad we are on the same wavelength.
In the name of ethics, it's desireable for something like that to be disclosed. If a seller cracks out a details coin and calls it a self graded straight grade at the same grade, I see the unethical behavior. But if the seller cracks it out and makes no claim about a grade at all, only guaranteeing authenticity, I would agree it's a little misleading. But I don't think it's at the same level of bad.
Gotta draw the line somewhere. What about my case where the MS 65 upgraded to 66? Does the seller need to disclose it took 5 tries and it rejected at cac? That's like 6 more professional opinions.
Gotta draw the line somewhere. What about my case where the MS 65 upgraded to 66? Does the seller need to disclose it took 5 tries and it rejected at cac? That's like 6 more professional opinions.
A coin that has upgraded is not a problem coin. A rejection by CAC does not indicate a problem coin.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
@Purfrock said:
I'll try to put this as nicely as I can. I did business with them once. (A lot of their coins do get high prices, but strangely, you see them for sale again quite frequently. Judge for yourself what that means.) The coin I received was...not as described. I returned it and they dragged the process out as long as they could before finally refunding me. Never again.
IMHO GSC’s business model, though probably legal, is highly unethical.
It’s similar to me buying a salvage/wreck car for 20 cents on the dollar, fixing it, and then selling it without disclosing the cars history to a unsuspecting buyer who doesn’t check the cars title.
After reading about GSC this past winter, I started checking out their eBay offerings. I've since made a few purchases from them, including one this past week, and could not be happier.
The Tree of Liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
@koynekwest said:
Blue Moon-now THAT'S a blast from the past. Are they still around?
I google search suggests that they were shut down in 2014.
They did reappear under a different ebay name before finally being shut down. Ken Vilken was the guy in the pictures with the stacks of gold and he had a shop, Blue Moon Coins, in Vancouver, WA. I believe there were legal problems.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Update, GSC finally made good on our agreement. I am happy with the outcome, all things considered and have learned some very valuable lessons. Thanks for all of the feedback and support.
Unfortunately, the business model of GSC and other high volume raw coin dealers is to sell problem coins with a generous return policy - they make money on novices that do not know how to grade (their core customer base), and don't haggle with those who might know how to grade and return the coins, which keeps them in good standing with eBay.
The best defense is to learn how to grade - hopefully the PCGS submission experience has helped "educate" the OP on grading.
My results with GSC have been very mixed. About five years ago I bought six or seven IHC PR cents from them, and none of them had any spots or hairlines that would cause a low grade. And all of them would grade RD. However, all of them were graded code .91 Questionable Color by PCGS. I have bought a few toned IHC PR coins from them and they all graded, but often times 63 or 64 due to hairlines that did not appear in the photos. GSC has always accepted my returns with little or no questions asked. You will not find any registry quality coins on their site, but you can find some coins that will look nice in an old album.
Comments
I'm guessing they're already aware of this discussion.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
And I’m guessing they’re unfazed.
Smitten with DBLCs.
They are selling problem coins, knowing that they are problem coins, without disclosing that they are problem coins. In my book that's wrong. It puts them at the bottom of the stack when you start stacking up dealers.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
So far GSC has over 2200 views from coin collectors - their main business and all potential customers.
Nearly every comment is negative which suggests that the people that frequent this forum are not their intended customer base.
And yet, they choose to ignore this discussion which speaks volumes.
I suspect that the circle of potential customers has shrunk again - deservedly so.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
We are here for you. Really hope this gets cleared up soon.
Best place to buy !
Bronze Associate member
GSC is an opportunist looking to prey on uninformed collectors. They systematically look to bring problem coins to market and present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder) is withheld. It is like buying a home and having a disclosure form. The house has asbestos...if that information is known it must be disclosed. While grading is subjective, the absence of disclosure is an issue with GSC and would be considered unethical in other markets.
Defending them based on their return policies etc ignores the fact that the people that they are selling to generally do not have the ability to differentiate problem coins from the rest of the population. 30 days is irrelevant in that context.
Latin American Collection
Besides all the well known ugliness mentioned throughout this thread, they (GSC) are also rampant employers of shill bidding. The only time I would even consider bidding on one of their listings is if it were a cherry-pick situation.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Absolutely. I agree with all mbogoman says.
Subprime used car dealers are what they are and educated consumers with good credit typically avoid them. That said they fill a niche that is needed for the whole market.
Just as there are diamond dealers in the crappy malls on the edge of town. Should we shutter them and steer everyone to Tiffany? You guys are looking at them from of the top of the market wondering why everyone doesn’t just go to Legend or CRO. It is a little daft and out of touch. I concede the point that even with the premium of those dealers one gets better value.... if they are educated and willing to play at that level.
If the market had a better option it would be filled by that option. As long as there are price shoppers there will be “bulk/crap” sellers. At least GS sticks to a pattern and is predictable. All you can really ask for
I disagree with Boosibri for a change. Grades are opinions and dealers get opinions thrown at them all day every day by every vest pocket and tire kicker. Who are we to say which ones they have an obligation to pass on to the detriment of their profit. Does a cereal manufacturer owe it to their customers to mention that X or Z big box doesn’t carry them because they consider them low quality?
Even TPG detail grades/opinions are fickle, I have had so many coins go from graded to details and the other way. Do I owe it to buyers in the future to tell them a coin used to be in the under-grade holder? A details-cleaned holder before the XF CaC it sits in now?
Now if there was a hole or something obvious, 30 days to make up your owe mind is better than most other dealers out there.
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
"...present them in such a way that material information (like the coin was cracked out of a details holder)..."
This would only be relevant if the grading company in question doesn't make mistakes. I've cracked details coins out of NGC holders and gotten straight grades at PCGS. So who's opinion was wrong? If it was NGC's why is it necessary to provide it to a prospective buyer?
Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw.
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
If I crack out a details holdered coin because I think the TPG opinion is wrong and sell it before I send it to a different TPG for their opinion, it's still the same coin. Of course, if the idea is that some peoples' opinions are more important than others, that would make a difference. But then, on the other hand, if the coin would have graded at the second TPG, whose opinion of the three is the least useful- the first TPG, mine or the second TPG?
"Seems like there is a difference in cracking out and submitting it to another service as opposed to cracking it out and selling it raw."
And one more thought... suppose the coin was submitted to the second TPG instead of the first and never received a details grade. It's still the same coin.
Yes the seller taking the risk and paying the grading fees. Only difference
The raw option let’s the buyer’s imagine play up the rewards and down play the risks. Buyer beware
11.5$ Southern Dollars, The little “Big Easy” set
So! Are you affiliated with Great Southern Coins????
That's what I was wondering.
"The easy money has been made"
I am now cautiously optomistic.
"So! Are you affiliated with Great Southern Coins????"
No. Are you?
"That's what I was wondering."
How about you?
Who's who appears to be a lot more interesting to the posters here than the questions I asked. I guess that's understandable.
Fuzzy thinking and flawed logic
"Fuzzy thinking and flawed logic"
I'm willing to be convinced. Please explain.
Can someone show where they feel there was shill bidding in one of their auctions?
If you buy a coin in auction and bid too much whose fault is that?
Here. Look at this one. The top four bidders have 100%, 97%, 100% and 94% bid activity with this seller, across a wide variety of coin types. Furthermore, the exact same coin was "sold" by GSC on May 1 also. I guarantee you that this coin will show up again in their listings in a month or two...
https://ebay.com/itm/1876-Trade-Dollar-PROOF-Impressive-Superb-Gem-PF-CAM-Very-PQ-PR/352358799537?hash=item520a3898b1:g:hmEAAOSwbbda~zGc
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
Very informative thread for a newb. I had some of their coins on my watch list. This thread and the fact that I live in Texas ( sales tax) has made me rethink bidding.
"I spent 50% of my money on alcohol, women, and gambling. The other half I wasted.
So have I and NGC got it right by conservatively judging cleaned coins. All that means is PCGS is looser with messed with coins, which is why I sent it in.......
Best, SH
"All that means is PCGS is looser with messed with coins, which is why I sent it in......."
If it was only that simple, but that doesn't explain the PCGS details coins that get straight grades at NGC or the coins NGC says are cleaned first time through, but get grades after being cracked and resubmitted.
if GSC lists a coin that they know PCGS/NGC has decided was a counterfeit should GSC disclose the problem with the coin?
then why are all other PCGS/NGC determined problems with a coin exempt from disclosure by the seller?
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Then GSC should get the second professional opinion BEFORE selling the most likely problem coin raw. At a minimum a seller should disclose the professional opinion when the coin has been removed from a slab that points out the problem with the coin. After all, they sell graded coins at a premium based on these professional opinions.
Dealers should not sell a coin, without disclosure, as "uncertified" when that coin was previously certified to have a problem. Quite frankly, I feel such a practice is nothing short of dishonest.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
Least we forget, PCGS/NGC provide PAID professional opinions. If collectors did not value their opinions they would not be paying top dollar for them. If I'm buying a raw coin that was removed from a problem PCGS/NGC holder I have every right to expect disclosure of that professional opinion by the seller.
Note that the seller of a house is required to disclose known defects of that house. A reputable coin dealer should do the same.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
You have been on this chat board and (presumably into coins for years) to amass nearly 25000 posts. You should know there is a huge difference between knowingly selling a coin that PCGS and NGC deemed COUNTERFEIT and knowingly selling one that PCGS and NGC deemed as simply having a problem. These 2 cases aren't even from the same planet. Especially given that GSC guarantees the coins they sell are genuine. One of your examples is fraud, and the other is not. They never make a claim of the grade. It's really unfair to use one of those 2 cases to make a claim about what they should do for the other.
Edit: To extend your analogy yet again to another ridiculous extension, if you buy a coin at MS 65 and get it upgraded to MS 66, do you need to disclose that it was originally in an MS 65 holder and that it took 5 tries to upgrade it to 66 and that it was rejected by CAC? No, it's ridiculous.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
Agree, huge difference between a counterfeit coin and a lesser problem coin. No difference that both are the opinion of professional graders. Opinions of professional graders (PCGS/NGC) should be disclosed for any listed coin that has been removed from a problem holder regardless of the degree of the problem. A seller who tries to increase his sell price by hiding a problem (the TPG's opinion) is being unethical.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
I couldn't tell if you were advocating them as the same. I'll take away my disagree next time I'm on my computer (posting from mobile now - edit looks like I was able to take it back on mobile). My apologies. Glad we are on the same wavelength.
In the name of ethics, it's desireable for something like that to be disclosed. If a seller cracks out a details coin and calls it a self graded straight grade at the same grade, I see the unethical behavior. But if the seller cracks it out and makes no claim about a grade at all, only guaranteeing authenticity, I would agree it's a little misleading. But I don't think it's at the same level of bad.
Gotta draw the line somewhere. What about my case where the MS 65 upgraded to 66? Does the seller need to disclose it took 5 tries and it rejected at cac? That's like 6 more professional opinions.
Successful transactions with: wondercoin, Tetromibi, PerryHall, PlatinumDuck, JohnMaben/Pegasus Coin & Jewelry, CoinFlip, and coinlieutenant.
A coin that has upgraded is not a problem coin. A rejection by CAC does not indicate a problem coin.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
another thing I noticed was gsc's bad pictures, always with a black background, i am sure they do this on purpose. would anyone pay 888 for this coin? you could never grade this coin by the very bad picture
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1907-Gold-Eagle-10-Gold-Indian-Beautiful-Rich-Gem-BU-Nice-Free-Shipping-/352349558566?nma=true&si=QDPMCe%2BM3M0bXb8dBHH%2Fvbutwts%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
I am not, but with you only having 7 posts and all of them defending GSC it seemed like a logical question.
I had the "same exact experience"
"I am not, but with you only having 7 posts and all of them defending GSC it seemed like a logical question."
I didn't defend GSC. I questioned the concept that a TPG opinion, once rendered, should not be disputed.
I dealt with them once ,strictly a bullion deal , I asked for beef but they sent chicken.
Since then I only buy from blue moon coins
Blue Moon-now THAT'S a blast from the past. Are they still around?
I google search suggests that they were shut down in 2014.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
Well, they deserved it.
IMHO GSC’s business model, though probably legal, is highly unethical.
It’s similar to me buying a salvage/wreck car for 20 cents on the dollar, fixing it, and then selling it without disclosing the cars history to a unsuspecting buyer who doesn’t check the cars title.
After reading about GSC this past winter, I started checking out their eBay offerings. I've since made a few purchases from them, including one this past week, and could not be happier.
They did reappear under a different ebay name before finally being shut down. Ken Vilken was the guy in the pictures with the stacks of gold and he had a shop, Blue Moon Coins, in Vancouver, WA. I believe there were legal problems.
Natural forces of supply and demand are the best regulators on earth.
That's too bad. An outfit like that one deserves to be banned for life.
Just another day at the office,
[[[https://law.justia.com/cases/louisiana/first-circuit-court-of-appeal/2007/2006ca1958-1.html
Update, GSC finally made good on our agreement. I am happy with the outcome, all things considered and have learned some very valuable lessons. Thanks for all of the feedback and support.
Interesting read, but 10 years old. What I found interesting is the liabilities, do some dealers buy on 30 days net?
Unfortunately, the business model of GSC and other high volume raw coin dealers is to sell problem coins with a generous return policy - they make money on novices that do not know how to grade (their core customer base), and don't haggle with those who might know how to grade and return the coins, which keeps them in good standing with eBay.
The best defense is to learn how to grade - hopefully the PCGS submission experience has helped "educate" the OP on grading.
Learn how to grade-how important is that? It's critical to be able to at least "ball park" grades.
My results with GSC have been very mixed. About five years ago I bought six or seven IHC PR cents from them, and none of them had any spots or hairlines that would cause a low grade. And all of them would grade RD. However, all of them were graded code .91 Questionable Color by PCGS. I have bought a few toned IHC PR coins from them and they all graded, but often times 63 or 64 due to hairlines that did not appear in the photos. GSC has always accepted my returns with little or no questions asked. You will not find any registry quality coins on their site, but you can find some coins that will look nice in an old album.