And, to add to my comment above, it is also critical to learn how to spot problem coins. This seller seems to specialize in those, and most are very subtle.
@amwldcoin said:
I agree with most of what you say. Many collectors knowingly buy problem coins. The problem with GSC is they misrepresent their coins with juiced up pictures and do not reveal any problems not detectable from their pictures in the description!
@joebb21 said:
To play devils advocate here for a second- did GSC really do anything wrong? While most here are advanced numismatists and are somewhat knowledgeable in what they collect, also further knowing to buy certified when possible so that way there is the least surprises- we sometimes forget that there is a tremendous coin market out there that specifically deals in problem coins. Collecting on a budget is a real thing and you get more coins for your buck when you are willing to accept a coin that has a couple of scratches.. or perhaps a cleaning or a slight rim bump.
There are thousands of people whom collect coins like this and love it. I would imagine that if the coin was described as BU in the description that in fact the coin truly is BU. Perhaps it might not straight grade but that does not mean the coin is not BU.
GSC states clearly that if you are looking for certified coins then you should buy them as such. They also offer a VERY GENEROUS 30 day return policy for all coins. 30 days should be enough time for anyone to evaluate a purchase and decide whether they like it enough to keep it or not.
While I too have lost significant money on raw purchases made from GSC over the years, I readily admit that the fault is my own and while those coins would not specifically fit in what I look for these days, other people would love to own them.
I point this all out to remind some who forget that coins are an enjoyment shared by thousands if not more many times in the raw form. We are quick to criticize coins that do not straight grade and are only focusing on dollars and making money etc and not keeping in mind that raw with problems is enjoyable as well.
Come to think of it, I have a nice small collection of ancients ive been putting together and almost ALL are slightly impaired in one form or another and I so enjoy finding and collecting them
While you are correct their photos are meant to juice a coins look, they allow you 30 days to view it in hand and return it if you dont like it. They also dont make any claims about the coins likely grade other than stating basic UNC or BU which Im sure the coins actually are.
Yeah I can see how a few cleaned or repaired coins can be sort of "missed" (especially if you are not particularly looking) but GSC has so many it seems like a high probability they are doing it in house which is a bit more sinister as they can't claim ignorance.
Eight years and my first post here. Sad. It’s a great site that i’ve honestly forgot, instead spending most my time reporting counterfeit eBay coins on coincommunity.com’s hidden counterfeit detection sub-forum. That is until last night when I was booted from the forum after arguing with the forum owner "Bobby" over an insignificant matter regarding the format of a post. Whatever... it was a good four year run and it looks like I’ve graduated ‘up.’ There’s some good posts over there that I authored that i’ll bring over to here.
I’m no TPG expert but i’ve been collecting for over fifty years, attended many ANA grading and counterfeit detection seminars over the decades, own and read about every counterfeit reference book ever printed. I regularly give short seminars on counterfeit detection at local coin clubs. I’m no newbe to numismatics.
So then I dig up this story about GSC. Not only do they auction overgraded, photo-enhanced problem coins, they regularly, and knowingly sell counterfeits too. There are a few documented cases on coincommunity.com of counterfeit GSC coins, and like a previous poster reported earlier, they will re-auction them when returned. Years ago I won a GSC auction and returned a deceptively well made counterfeit $2 1/2 gold Indian only to see GSC later sell the exact counterfeit to another unsuspecting eBay bidder.
Rule #1: When you return a coin to GSC, for whatever reason, you are banned from bidding on their coins in the future.
Fifteen years ago I sold six figures on eBay and they offered, as a "Power Seller", a Handler, one who might intercede in sticky matters so I might concentrate on selling. They are your contact to deal with complaints, remove negative feedback, and help bend the rules a little. For example, it is a violation to list raw coins on eBay with a stated ‘bid’ values but GSC regularly does so. Today GSC has 16 coins violating eBay rules but they cannot be taken down or changed if GSC doesn’t wish to. (There is no option within eBay to report a coin that violates eBay’s posting rules.) Emails to eBay go unanswered. Their Handler was at work here.
I reported this $1 gold as a likely counterfeit but the coincommunity eBay contact no longer bothers to challenge GSC’s Handler.
Take a good look at GSC’s US gold. You’ll see more than polishing and cleaning; you’ll see common spark erosion defects, raised field artifacts near the rims, voids and gouges within complex raised features and all the common telltales seen on gold fakes that flooded the market in the 1960’s-70’s. And no one can ever get one removed.
Rule #2: GSC has a handler that facilitates what GSC does best, at a real cost to current and potential bidders.
Under another eBay name (yeah, I know...) I won a GSC auction for what appeared to be a nice raw proof IH Cent at a fair price. GSC later said the coin was sold before the auction ended and was unavailable only to later appear on eBay 30 days later. I filed neutral feedback, which later disappeared, and was subsequently banned from future bidding. Their Handler was at work here.
Rule #3: it is against eBay rules to create a new name to knowingly circumvent a seller who has banned you.
The Seller, or more likely, their Handler, can remove you from eBay and forever prevent you from creating a new user name. Unlike what I did, it is best to leave well enough alone.
Rule #4: GSC regularly employs ‘shills’ to bid up prices.
Years ago eBay allowed the entire name of bidders to be shown and it was easy to see the same handful of bidders at work.
Now the names are masked but, like another poster already pointed out, some of their regular bidders only seem to bid on GSC product. How is it that GSC’s cleaned 1955 DDO Lincoln can garner 73 bids and $2100 when my certified PCGS AU58 Lincoln garners only $1600 with four bids?
Their Handler was at work here.
After the IH Cent debacle I sold all my eBay stock valued over $100K. It was my best eBay sale ever...
I didn't read thru the thread...just my opinion...but I believe it's likely that this seller is buying "problem" coins in reputable TPG slabs, cracking them, then cleaning and shining up the coins using their "special techniques", and then offering the coins out there to those who are basically ignorant about the grading process, some if not many who think they can get these raw coins graded and flipped for a nice profit.
It's an interesting business model, basically outsmarting those who greedily think they can outsmart them.
@saltlydog4 said:
**My advice: lawyer up. ** Take them for what they are worth. If they cracked out a coin from a holder before issuing a refund, that is destroying your property. So, for that coin, they are on the hook for the purchase price + the PCGS fees.
For $1,000? Litigation isn't cheap especially if it is across state lines.
I've cherry picked several really nice coins from them. I think they are high volume dealers. They sell good coins, and they sell crap coins. Just look at the pictures and bid based on what you see.
@gorebels said:
Eight years and my first post here. Sad. It’s a great site that i’ve honestly forgot, instead spending most my time reporting counterfeit eBay coins on coincommunity.com’s hidden counterfeit detection sub-forum. That is until last night when I was booted from the forum after arguing with the forum owner "Bobby" over an insignificant matter regarding the format of a post. Whatever... it was a good four year run and it looks like I’ve graduated ‘up.’ There’s some good posts over there that I authored that i’ll bring over to here.
I’m no TPG expert but i’ve been collecting for over fifty years, attended many ANA grading and counterfeit detection seminars over the decades, own and read about every counterfeit reference book ever printed. I regularly give short seminars on counterfeit detection at local coin clubs. I’m no newbe to numismatics.
So then I dig up this story about GSC. Not only do they auction overgraded, photo-enhanced problem coins, they regularly, and knowingly sell counterfeits too. There are a few documented cases on coincommunity.com of counterfeit GSC coins, and like a previous poster reported earlier, they will re-auction them when returned. Years ago I won a GSC auction and returned a deceptively well made counterfeit $2 1/2 gold Indian only to see GSC later sell the exact counterfeit to another unsuspecting eBay bidder.
Rule #1: When you return a coin to GSC, for whatever reason, you are banned from bidding on their coins in the future.
Fifteen years ago I sold six figures on eBay and they offered, as a "Power Seller", a Handler, one who might intercede in sticky matters so I might concentrate on selling. They are your contact to deal with complaints, remove negative feedback, and help bend the rules a little. For example, it is a violation to list raw coins on eBay with a stated ‘bid’ values but GSC regularly does so. Today GSC has 16 coins violating eBay rules but they cannot be taken down or changed if GSC doesn’t wish to. (There is no option within eBay to report a coin that violates eBay’s posting rules.) Emails to eBay go unanswered. Their Handler was at work here.
I reported this $1 gold as a likely counterfeit but the coincommunity eBay contact no longer bothers to challenge GSC’s Handler.
Take a good look at GSC’s US gold. You’ll see more than polishing and cleaning; you’ll see common spark erosion defects, raised field artifacts near the rims, voids and gouges within complex raised features and all the common telltales seen on gold fakes that flooded the market in the 1960’s-70’s. And no one can ever get one removed.
Rule #2: GSC has a handler that facilitates what GSC does best, at a real cost to current and potential bidders.
Under another eBay name (yeah, I know...) I won a GSC auction for what appeared to be a nice raw proof IH Cent at a fair price. GSC later said the coin was sold before the auction ended and was unavailable only to later appear on eBay 30 days later. I filed neutral feedback, which later disappeared, and was subsequently banned from future bidding. Their Handler was at work here.
Rule #3: it is against eBay rules to create a new name to knowingly circumvent a seller who has banned you.
The Seller, or more likely, their Handler, can remove you from eBay and forever prevent you from creating a new user name. Unlike what I did, it is best to leave well enough alone.
Rule #4: GSC regularly employs ‘shills’ to bid up prices.
Years ago eBay allowed the entire name of bidders to be shown and it was easy to see the same handful of bidders at work.
Now the names are masked but, like another poster already pointed out, some of their regular bidders only seem to bid on GSC product. How is it that GSC’s cleaned 1955 DDO Lincoln can garner 73 bids and $2100 when my certified PCGS AU58 Lincoln garners only $1600 with four bids?
Their Handler was at work here.
After the IH Cent debacle I sold all my eBay stock valued over $100K. It was my best eBay sale ever...
That gold does not look fake to me. Just cleaned/damaged
Regarding the $1 gold, the broad raised 'bubbles' bother me, especially since I don't see corresponding lows on the reverse. I doubt these are laminations created by heating the surface; they are just too big.
And regarding the cleaning... that goes without saying. We're discussing GSC here...
I have bought some nice slabbed coins from them which sold good retail money at shows and online. Positive transactions for me. I don’t buy raw material online (sight unseen).
Some of coin club members complain they should drop their logo from pics so can use those pics in their listings of stuff purchased to flip.
Not as good as I think those are Scans?? Which I can see them using as oppose to individual photos in order to post the stuff in volume that they do. It should not hinder any cherry picking as far as I am concern...
WS
Proud recipient of the coveted PCGS Forum "You Suck" Award Thursday July 19, 2007 11:33 PM and December 30th, 2011 at 8:50 PM.
They have a beautiful absolutely gorgeous 1866 NGC58 $20 Lib at $5650 (CDN bid 5750) bin / mo. Now there’s a deal. Lots of blast on that one. Upgrade or CAC gold sticker? That’s hardly overpriced.
This all shows the need for some type of standardized, verifiable images as part of the ebay selling system. They won't allow you to use high resolution images but not so with low resolution images. With all their rules, you would think they would focus on quality control and anti-fraud consumer friendly activity.
I don’t think eBay needs to stick their nose into images increasing my selling costs further they manage enough thank you. Buyers need to take responsibility in managing the risks of sight unseen buying. Otherwise buy sight seen at a show.
I check if seller offers returns.
If I don’t like his pics I move on.
I bookmark fav sellers.
Is the item pictured the one I will receive? If doubtful I usually move on.
A risk $ limit on mail order buying is good too.
Don’t buy coins you can’t really afford which mess up your budget for survival type expenses or increase debt. The market has been a downward direction for sometime (see Pcgs 3000 graphs), it’s not worth it.
Ok Beerock, you've spent money, you have correspondence from them acknowledging problem and their willingness to make it good. They are delaying because you are insignificant in their realm. They do a lot of business, they've had problems but their main objective is cash flow and making money. You are going to have to up the ante to elevate your problem to a higher place on the ladder. Go higher on the decision ladder, get a number that can accept text and pics. Go to the police dept and get a blank theft form, make sure it has police info on it, go to the clerks office in your county and get a form for law suit . Fill them out with type writer take pictures of the clerks office and the police office and the forms placed such a way as to indicate you are there. Call your upper level contact , tell him you are sending pictures for his review send the pics, call him back and verify receipt. Ask him how he would like you to proceed. Should you pay the filing fees or would he like to give you target dates when you can expect reimbursement. You are at the point of attorney intervention. You may have to go there. Be hard, accept no put offs, stand firm
When surrounded by an overwhelming force and death is immenent the best defense is an
immediate and strong ATTACK.
Like several others here I have bought coins from GSC. Usually slabbed. I have always been happy with what I got...…….because they are usually a variety and I luv cherrypicking.
I do think that buying problem coins and cracking them out / reselling as "BU raw judge for yourself" is FRAUD. Especially when the problems arent easily/impossible to see with the photos.
It may not be "illegal" but it is certainly "unethical".
Full disclosure: I did buy a coin from them because it was a cherry pick. And it was a good coin. But, I don't support the above practice.
They are scumbags. Anybody who buys detail coins, cracks them out, and sells them as raw uncirculated's is highly unethical and has moral deficiencies.
@skier07 said:
They are scumbags. Anybody who buys detail coins, cracks them out, and sells them as raw uncirculated's is highly unethical and has moral deficiencies.
+1
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@braddick said:
There have been cases where an astute collector here purchased what was listed as a BU Buffalo nickel turned out to be a GEM PROOF. There are diamonds in the ruff. With that stated though keep in mind GSC is today what ACG was in the 80’s.
Yes I know this collector. He bought a 1913 type one, a 1915, a 1916 and a 1936 buffalo nickels as business strikes that turned out to be proofs! from “Way Down South” as he used to call GSC. As with any dealer you have to be careful with raw coins. I see so many coins advertised on eBay as uncirculated that have lots of wear on the buffs hip and so are not
unc. Its up to the collector to know the difference. Same thing goes for the buffalo proofs.
Collector of Buffalo Nickels and other 20th century United States Coinage a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
@Purfrock said:
I'll try to put this as nicely as I can. I did business with them once. (A lot of their coins do get high prices, but strangely, you see them for sale again quite frequently. Judge for yourself what that means.) The coin I received was...not as described. I returned it and they dragged the process out as long as they could before finally refunding me. Never again.
The impression I have obtained online is that they use photography to enhance the eye appeal of their coins, and when buyers receive the coins, they are often disappointed.
Comments
And, to add to my comment above, it is also critical to learn how to spot problem coins. This seller seems to specialize in those, and most are very subtle.
Yeah I can see how a few cleaned or repaired coins can be sort of "missed" (especially if you are not particularly looking) but GSC has so many it seems like a high probability they are doing it in house which is a bit more sinister as they can't claim ignorance.
Eight years and my first post here. Sad. It’s a great site that i’ve honestly forgot, instead spending most my time reporting counterfeit eBay coins on coincommunity.com’s hidden counterfeit detection sub-forum. That is until last night when I was booted from the forum after arguing with the forum owner "Bobby" over an insignificant matter regarding the format of a post. Whatever... it was a good four year run and it looks like I’ve graduated ‘up.’ There’s some good posts over there that I authored that i’ll bring over to here.
I’m no TPG expert but i’ve been collecting for over fifty years, attended many ANA grading and counterfeit detection seminars over the decades, own and read about every counterfeit reference book ever printed. I regularly give short seminars on counterfeit detection at local coin clubs. I’m no newbe to numismatics.
So then I dig up this story about GSC. Not only do they auction overgraded, photo-enhanced problem coins, they regularly, and knowingly sell counterfeits too. There are a few documented cases on coincommunity.com of counterfeit GSC coins, and like a previous poster reported earlier, they will re-auction them when returned. Years ago I won a GSC auction and returned a deceptively well made counterfeit $2 1/2 gold Indian only to see GSC later sell the exact counterfeit to another unsuspecting eBay bidder.
Rule #1: When you return a coin to GSC, for whatever reason, you are banned from bidding on their coins in the future.
Fifteen years ago I sold six figures on eBay and they offered, as a "Power Seller", a Handler, one who might intercede in sticky matters so I might concentrate on selling. They are your contact to deal with complaints, remove negative feedback, and help bend the rules a little. For example, it is a violation to list raw coins on eBay with a stated ‘bid’ values but GSC regularly does so. Today GSC has 16 coins violating eBay rules but they cannot be taken down or changed if GSC doesn’t wish to. (There is no option within eBay to report a coin that violates eBay’s posting rules.) Emails to eBay go unanswered. Their Handler was at work here.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_ftrt=901&_fsradio=&LH_SpecificSeller=1&_sop=10&_sadis=15&_stpos=29301&_odkw=&_saslop=1&_fss=1&_dmd=1&_sasl=greatsoutherncoin&_osacat=0&_ipg=50&_ftrv=1&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xbid.TRS0&_nkw=bid&_sacat=0
I reported this $1 gold as a likely counterfeit but the coincommunity eBay contact no longer bothers to challenge GSC’s Handler.
Take a good look at GSC’s US gold. You’ll see more than polishing and cleaning; you’ll see common spark erosion defects, raised field artifacts near the rims, voids and gouges within complex raised features and all the common telltales seen on gold fakes that flooded the market in the 1960’s-70’s. And no one can ever get one removed.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/1853-Gold-Dollar-1-Gold-Liberty-Type-1-Choice-BU-/372426340519?hash=item56b656f8a7:g:P2IAAOSwR4hbjxPO&nma=true&si=wC0zwf5I2mmHW4CvHKJkuehGrW8%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Rule #2: GSC has a handler that facilitates what GSC does best, at a real cost to current and potential bidders.
Under another eBay name (yeah, I know...) I won a GSC auction for what appeared to be a nice raw proof IH Cent at a fair price. GSC later said the coin was sold before the auction ended and was unavailable only to later appear on eBay 30 days later. I filed neutral feedback, which later disappeared, and was subsequently banned from future bidding. Their Handler was at work here.
Rule #3: it is against eBay rules to create a new name to knowingly circumvent a seller who has banned you.
The Seller, or more likely, their Handler, can remove you from eBay and forever prevent you from creating a new user name. Unlike what I did, it is best to leave well enough alone.
Rule #4: GSC regularly employs ‘shills’ to bid up prices.
Years ago eBay allowed the entire name of bidders to be shown and it was easy to see the same handful of bidders at work.
Now the names are masked but, like another poster already pointed out, some of their regular bidders only seem to bid on GSC product. How is it that GSC’s cleaned 1955 DDO Lincoln can garner 73 bids and $2100 when my certified PCGS AU58 Lincoln garners only $1600 with four bids?
Their Handler was at work here.
After the IH Cent debacle I sold all my eBay stock valued over $100K. It was my best eBay sale ever...
APMEX sells coins using stock photos many times, so what you see isn't what you get.
IMO they are the King of Shillers. I'm glad to say that they've been cherrypicked for some very nice coins in the past.
I didn't read thru the thread...just my opinion...but I believe it's likely that this seller is buying "problem" coins in reputable TPG slabs, cracking them, then cleaning and shining up the coins using their "special techniques", and then offering the coins out there to those who are basically ignorant about the grading process, some if not many who think they can get these raw coins graded and flipped for a nice profit.
It's an interesting business model, basically outsmarting those who greedily think they can outsmart them.
Other than bullion, I will not buy raw coins on ebay. Never dealt with gsc so I will stay out of this one.
For $1,000? Litigation isn't cheap especially if it is across state lines.
What are the owners names of Great Southern Coins ?
Updated- Never mind = saw the names on first page ( Jacob Chandler or Bobby Esparza)
WS
I've cherry picked several really nice coins from them. I think they are high volume dealers. They sell good coins, and they sell crap coins. Just look at the pictures and bid based on what you see.
That gold does not look fake to me. Just cleaned/damaged
Regarding the $1 gold, the broad raised 'bubbles' bother me, especially since I don't see corresponding lows on the reverse. I doubt these are laminations created by heating the surface; they are just too big.
And regarding the cleaning... that goes without saying. We're discussing GSC here...
I've noticed in the last day or two, the picture style has changed for great southern auctions. Improvement or no?
gsc graded coins are way overpriced also, 800 for a ms-62 liberty gold-way too much
I have bought some nice slabbed coins from them which sold good retail money at shows and online. Positive transactions for me. I don’t buy raw material online (sight unseen).
Some of coin club members complain they should drop their logo from pics so can use those pics in their listings of stuff purchased to flip.
I use AS so not over bid.
Not as good as I think those are Scans?? Which I can see them using as oppose to individual photos in order to post the stuff in volume that they do. It should not hinder any cherry picking as far as I am concern...
WS
They have a beautiful absolutely gorgeous 1866 NGC58 $20 Lib at $5650 (CDN bid 5750) bin / mo. Now there’s a deal. Lots of blast on that one. Upgrade or CAC gold sticker? That’s hardly overpriced.
This all shows the need for some type of standardized, verifiable images as part of the ebay selling system. They won't allow you to use high resolution images but not so with low resolution images. With all their rules, you would think they would focus on quality control and anti-fraud consumer friendly activity.
They could literally pay someone to drive the coins to my house and I still wouldn't be interested.
I've actually bought several really nice gold Indians from them, including one in my toned set.
I would rather remarry my X.:(
I don’t think eBay needs to stick their nose into images increasing my selling costs further they manage enough thank you. Buyers need to take responsibility in managing the risks of sight unseen buying. Otherwise buy sight seen at a show.
Ok Beerock, you've spent money, you have correspondence from them acknowledging problem and their willingness to make it good. They are delaying because you are insignificant in their realm. They do a lot of business, they've had problems but their main objective is cash flow and making money. You are going to have to up the ante to elevate your problem to a higher place on the ladder. Go higher on the decision ladder, get a number that can accept text and pics. Go to the police dept and get a blank theft form, make sure it has police info on it, go to the clerks office in your county and get a form for law suit . Fill them out with type writer take pictures of the clerks office and the police office and the forms placed such a way as to indicate you are there. Call your upper level contact , tell him you are sending pictures for his review send the pics, call him back and verify receipt. Ask him how he would like you to proceed. Should you pay the filing fees or would he like to give you target dates when you can expect reimbursement. You are at the point of attorney intervention. You may have to go there. Be hard, accept no put offs, stand firm
When surrounded by an overwhelming force and death is immenent the best defense is an
immediate and strong ATTACK.
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
Hey disregard, I just loked at the OP and realized this is almost a year old
Bob Sr CEO Fieldtechs
Like several others here I have bought coins from GSC. Usually slabbed. I have always been happy with what I got...…….because they are usually a variety and I luv cherrypicking.
But your suggestion is still salient.
They are a very competitive seller, have nice material, a large inventory, material for many types of buyers, and successful in what they do.
My last purchase from them a really beautiful WLH with super vibrant dazzling luster which sold at my next show.
I do think that buying problem coins and cracking them out / reselling as "BU raw judge for yourself" is FRAUD. Especially when the problems arent easily/impossible to see with the photos.
It may not be "illegal" but it is certainly "unethical".
Full disclosure: I did buy a coin from them because it was a cherry pick. And it was a good coin. But, I don't support the above practice.
Minor Variety Trade dollar's with chop marks set:
More Than It's Chopped Up To Be
They are scumbags. Anybody who buys detail coins, cracks them out, and sells them as raw uncirculated's is highly unethical and has moral deficiencies.
+1
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I only buy non details (problem free) slabbed ngc or Pcgs coins from them or for that matter anyone else.
There are dealers who specialize in details Coins disclosing such.
That was still an impressive post, Bob!
There is a tuition we all have to pay.
$1000 is not much. I spent that traveling to shows and taking ANA classes.
I have had dealers swap coins when they realized they were cherrypicked.
Never burn bridges.
Get even by cherry picking but never burn bridges.
BST: KindaNewish (3/21/21), WQuarterFreddie (3/30/21), Meltdown (4/6/21), DBSTrader2 (5/5/21) AKA- unclemonkey on Blow Out
Yes I know this collector. He bought a 1913 type one, a 1915, a 1916 and a 1936 buffalo nickels as business strikes that turned out to be proofs! from “Way Down South” as he used to call GSC. As with any dealer you have to be careful with raw coins. I see so many coins advertised on eBay as uncirculated that have lots of wear on the buffs hip and so are not
unc. Its up to the collector to know the difference. Same thing goes for the buffalo proofs.
a.k.a "The BUFFINATOR"
The impression I have obtained online is that they use photography to enhance the eye appeal of their coins, and when buyers receive the coins, they are often disappointed.