Wonderful and congrats. You are a perfectionist and an expert grader. The question though, I,assume you buy 95% of coins that are or will CAC. Do,you pretty much agree that most coins that are not CAC are overgraded! Lets call a spade a spade here. Most not all, agree?
Regardless doesn’t the entire crack out and pay for play game sicken you?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
This,is,about DLH. Currin, DLH is now starting to add CAC in the notes column of,his,sets.
You should keep,track of,the percentage of CaC for,the,next year and see,if,it,grows.
.
From a previous post
CurrinCurrin Posts: 332 ✭✭✭ March 31, 2018 5:44PM
This whole set is about 18% cac. I have not looked at breaking out gold.
From a previous post, the first check I did the set was 18% CAC. John B said they going to review and update the notes for the entire collection in a couple months. Once he has all updates, I will check again. I believe CAC % is growing. I also believe the PCGS finest 1/0 is growing too. I thought I had the 1/0 % from a few months ago, but I cant readily find that number right now.
I am seeing inconsistencies everywhere. Two recent trade dollar purchases are both beaned and two grades apart. Both are 64s but one is a 65 and the other a 63.
Shrug
The grade on the holder and even the CAC sticker are just starting points, not end points
@tradedollarnut said:
The Eliasberg 1885 is graded NGC PF66. It would be a numismatic sin to separate it from the Eliasberg 1884 PF66
CoinFacts estimates the grade on both as being PR65s. Do you agree with the assessment?
@tradedollarnut said:
PCGS will cross the 1884 as a 66 and it will sticker despite the slight fingerprint on the reverse. The 1885 would cross and be stickered as a 65+ CAM.
I wouldn't mind seeing the 1885 cross as is. Have you considered buying it TDN? Last I heard, it was priced fairly.
@specialist said:
Sorry, I NEVER EVER liked that PR67 1884. I do know I am probably the only person to feel that way-and all my buddies have said I am dead wrong. Its my taste.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@specialist said:
Sorry, I NEVER EVER liked that PR67 1884. I do know I am probably the only person to feel that way-and all my buddies have said I am dead wrong. Its my taste.
It is darker then the image reveals.
@MrEureka said:
Now that I think about it, I can’t really say I remember the Starr 1884, and I may never have actually viewed it in hand. Seems impossible, but I missed the Starr sale, I could have missed theSuperior sale in which it reappeared, and I don’t know if Parrino ever brought it to shows. I think it’s the picture of the coin from the Starr sale that’s actually burned into my memory. So if anyone out there was planning to buy the coin sight unseen based on my earlier comments, don’t.
Don't worry, Andy...we already bought the coin, but it wasn't based on your comments. In my opinion, the coin is a 10. But, some like it, some don't...it happens.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@Currin said: New Upgrade to D.L. Hansen CS Complete US Set. (1792-1964)
This upgrade is amazing, undisputable. As some of you have been observing the past few weeks, it appear that really nice high grade coins are being upgraded with the very finest specimens possible. That may be the case here. According to Stack’s Bowers (2013): The rare and eagerly sought 1901-S Quarter is the undisputed ""King of Barber Coinage,"". The San Francisco Mint struck a mere 72,664 Quarters in 1901, which snatched the record low mintage for the Barber series from the hands of the 1896-S. The 1901-S remains one of the most challenging dates to find, and the offered Mint State-66 example is undoubtedly one of the finest known of this date and mint. It would enhance even the most advanced collection of Barber quarters, and is truly an historic offering. The Hansen collection has a very nice, pleasing 1901-S 25C MS66 specimen with a POP of 3/5. The coin appeared in a Stack’s Bowers Chicago ANA auction in July 2013 and sold for $96.938. It has a present PCGS Price Guide value of $125,000. So, what would you replace a $125,000 dollar quarter with?
$500,000 Barber Quarter!
You would replace with The Finest-Known 1901-S Barber Quarter with is a Beautiful, Original PCGS MS-68+ with a Pop of 1/0. According to Stack’s Bowers (2010): By Far and away the finest-known example of the rare, key-date 1901-S. The cataloger had never seen a 1901-S Quarter with the technical merits and eye appeal of this awe-inspiring Superb Gem. This is the single highest-graded 1901-S Barber Quarter known to PCGS, and the coin fully deserves every bit of honor that derives from this important standing. Both sides are totally and completely original with a full endowment of bright, frosty mint luster. The obverse is largely untoned, and we see only a few speckles of extremely faint champagne-pink iridescence scattered about near the rims. The center of the reverse is brilliant, that side of the coin also displaying a halo of iridescent reddish-apricot peripheral toning. The surfaces are essentially pristine (the reverse, in particular, seems to be completely devoid of marks), and they are certainly as close to this distinction as we have ever seen in an '01-S Quarter. The strike is also near perfect, both sides overall fully defined with extremely minor softness of detail confined to star 11 on the obverse.
This 1901-S Barber Quarter last sold in Stack’s Bowers March 2010 Baltimore auction for $327,750. The PCGS Price Guide value is a cool half million dollars! If you are still comparing, the Louis Eliasberg specimen was PCGS graded at MS67 and an Ex: San Francisco Mint; J.M. Clapp; John H. Clapp.
As a type coin, this 1901-S is one of the finest specimens in the Barber Half Dollar series. This is one of only four MS68+ graded by PCGS, with none finer. The other MS68+ are dates: 1892, 1900-O and 1898-O.
1901-S Original Barber Quarter PCGS MS-68+ PCGS POP 1/0 Value $500,000
1901-S 25C MS66 specimen with a POP of 3/5 Value $125,000
A little further background on this coin...
I bought it in the Stack's sale in 2010...
David Hall called us the next week and said that he wanted to make the coin the first "+" graded coin ever. So, they made it a 68+ (it was his favorite Barber quarter if memory serves and he graded it MS68+ all day long). So, it was marketed as PCGS's new idea to "+" grade. And we got the coin back at the Dallas Mid-Winter ANA show and sold it shortly thereafter to a dealer (it was CAC'd as well).
The collector that bought it from the dealer recently had it for sale and knowing the coin, I wanted it back as it belonged with DLH's Barber Quarter set...I know Laura disagrees, but I think that it's the best 1901-S in existence...we could have a contest at the ANA show to let collectors determine their favorite if she'd like to bring hers?
We plan on having it on display with some other coins from the Hansen Collection at the ANA show...
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@tradedollarnut said:
Eliasberg’s 1804$1 is graded PCGS PR65. Which is more important to match?
TDN: How about a trade????
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@tradedollarnut said:
The Eliasberg 1885 is graded NGC PF66. It would be a numismatic sin to separate it from the Eliasberg 1884 PF66
CoinFacts estimates the grade on both as being PR65s. Do you agree with the assessment?
@tradedollarnut said:
PCGS will cross the 1884 as a 66 and it will sticker despite the slight fingerprint on the reverse. The 1885 would cross and be stickered as a 65+ CAM.
I wouldn't mind seeing the 1885 cross as is. Have you considered buying it TDN? Last I heard, it was priced fairly.
Eh. $5M is a lot of money. And no, it won’t cross. I tried and tried and tried.
This,is,about DLH. Currin, DLH is now starting to add CAC in the notes column of,his,sets.
You should keep,track of,the percentage of CaC for,the,next year and see,if,it,grows.
.
From a previous post
CurrinCurrin Posts: 332 ✭✭✭ March 31, 2018 5:44PM
This whole set is about 18% cac. I have not looked at breaking out gold.
From a previous post, the first check I did the set was 18% CAC. John B said they going to review and update the notes for the entire collection in a couple months. Once he has all updates, I will check again. I believe CAC % is growing. I also believe the PCGS finest 1/0 is growing too. I thought I had the 1/0 % from a few months ago, but I cant readily find that number right now.
Take it from experience- the fastest way to lose money is to buy 1/0s that aren’t acclaimed forever as the finest known
@Perfection said:
Do,you pretty much agree that most coins that are not CAC are overgraded! Lets call a spade a spade here. Most not all, agree?
Regardless doesn’t the entire crack out and pay for play game sicken you?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
Well, you didn't ask me but that's never stopped me before. (: >)
I do NOT agree that "most coins that are not CAC are overgraded". PCGS and NGC try to assign the most appropriate (i.e., accurate) grade to every coin. CAC plays a different game. CAC doesn't sticker every coin that they feel is accurately graded. They only sticker the ones they like enough at the grade to buy at the grade. As with any selective buyer, that's a relatively small subset of the coins that have been graded.
That said, of course we have have problems with overgrading, gradeflation, crackouts, conflicts of interest, etc. But that doesn't mean that all coins rejected by CAC are overgraded.
I would go on with this, but we're already spending too much time on CAC and not enough on the Hansen Watch.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
I believe he’d be better off not buying 1/0 coins that aren’t CAC ....and spend the money on making the top 20 coins as amazing as possible. A 1901-S quarter might be in the top 100...no way in the top 20
@tradedollarnut said: Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
I believe he’d be better off not buying 1/0 coins that aren’t CAC
That makes sense if the coins graded one point lower are virtually as good as the 1/0 coin. But if the 1/0 coin blows away the next best coins, it would be crazy to pass on it because it lacks a sticker.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Perfection said:
Wonderful and congrats. You are a perfectionist and an expert grader. The question though, I,assume you buy 95% of coins that are or will CAC. Do,you pretty much agree that most coins that are not CAC are overgraded! Lets call a spade a spade here. Most not all, agree?
Regardless doesn’t the entire crack out and pay for play game sicken you?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
DLH is working with an expert. CAC is icing on the cupcake, but not compulsory as he has competent people looking at coins. The coins speak for themselves.
P.S. Are you Laura or did Laura just shadow draft it for you? Even the diction and tone have a Lauraesque quality.
@tradedollarnut said: Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
I believe he’d be better off not buying 1/0 coins that aren’t CAC
That makes sense if the coins graded one point lower are virtually as good as the 1/0 coin. But if the 1/0 coin blows away the next best coins, it would be crazy to pass on it because it lacks a sticker.
That depends on why it didn’t sticker. Doctored? Pass. Fill your collection with doctored 1/0s and you lose all respect
No.offense but the,over grading is rampant and a disgrace. What other,business can you
Compare what,goes,on with coins too? None. It’s pay to play. They try to be fair.?
Are you kidding me? Are you on something? How can anyone explain thousands of,upgrades
A year? How can you defend the millions of,dollars, probably tens of millions being made,on
Upgrading for,the submitters and also,the fees . They,changed the grading standards,or,parameters. It’s no longer upgrading. A 66 ten’s years ago,is now a 67 a good amount of,times. End of story .
Explain why show,grading is priced triple and therefore looser,most,of,the,time?
If attempts to upgrade were not profitable it,would stop. It has not stopped. The upgrades get upgraded.
It’s like,turning the miles back on a car.
There is one way to fix it. If. Pcgs would buy sight unseen what they grade at published prices
The over grading would stop. Then they would be very selective,on what gets upgraded.
Good luck.
Back,to,DLH. Revisit,this in a year. i bet the number of cac coins he buys increases substantially.
He,is a shrewd and smart business person. Regardless if,he ever,sells he has,
Learned,the,game by getting hosed by many,dealers and buying schlock.
Fed up, he teamed up with one,of the most honest people in the business for,a,variety of reasons. I bet number one was trust. From what I,hear DLH likes,to meet many dealers,and he can size,them up. He did not like lots of,what he found Out. Of,course,it,took maybe 100m
Before he got to John and also became much smarter.
He does not always listen to John’s. advice but at,least,he hears it and knows what,is,what.
As another,honest dealer would say. “There is nothing wrong with paying the price (within
Reason) for,the top cac coins. Someone else,is,always going to,want,them.
There are so many examples. Years ago Wynn bought Modigliani,s reclining nude for,I think
26m. People, thought he was nuts. How about most Ferrari’s ten years ago?
Buy the best, mostly cac of course and forget the rest.
Again the best can be a gem au coin.
DLH buying with,Johns help,has changed dramatically from,the beginning.
For the most part it,seems when he pays top prices like,he did for,some of,Duckor walkers at,least he bought the best coins. Check back, in a year and see,what,he,purchased between
Now and then.
This,is,about DLH. Currin, DLH is now starting to add CAC in the notes column of,his,sets.
You should keep,track of,the percentage of CaC for,the,next year and see,if,it,grows.
.
From a previous post
CurrinCurrin Posts: 332 ✭✭✭ March 31, 2018 5:44PM
This whole set is about 18% cac. I have not looked at breaking out gold.
From a previous post, the first check I did the set was 18% CAC. John B said they going to review and update the notes for the entire collection in a couple months. Once he has all updates, I will check again. I believe CAC % is growing. I also believe the PCGS finest 1/0 is growing too. I thought I had the 1/0 % from a few months ago, but I cant readily find that number right now.
Take it from experience- the fastest way to lose money is to buy 1/0s that aren’t acclaimed forever as the finest known
That's why I think that pursuing registry quality coins should be a labor of love rather than an investment. Grade inflation will destroy the value over time, and you are at the grading service's mercy if it is in a tight cycle when you need or want to move it quickly. CAC can help only but so much.
@tradedollarnut said: Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
I believe he’d be better off not buying 1/0 coins that aren’t CAC
That makes sense if the coins graded one point lower are virtually as good as the 1/0 coin. But if the 1/0 coin blows away the next best coins, it would be crazy to pass on it because it lacks a sticker.
That depends on why it didn’t sticker. Doctored? Pass. Fill your collection with doctored 1/0s and you lose all respect
True, but it's highly unlikely that a doctored 1/0 coin will blow away the next best coins. And in the few cases where that happens, it might make sense to make an exception. Granted, that will probably never happen in any of the series you collect. But if, for example, you're doing Massachusetts silver by die variety and Bechtler gold, it's a very different story.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
@Perfection said:
No.offense but the,over grading is rampant and a disgrace. What other,business can you
Compare what,goes,on with coins too? None. It’s pay to play. They try to be fair.?
It is utterly corrupt. You don't treat cancer (grade inflation) with mega doses of vitamin C (CAC) alone though - you must target the tumor directly and aggressively.
@Perfection said:
Wonderful and congrats. You are a perfectionist and an expert grader. The question though, I,assume you buy 95% of coins that are or will CAC. Do,you pretty much agree that most coins that are not CAC are overgraded! Lets call a spade a spade here. Most not all, agree?
Regardless doesn’t the entire crack out and pay for play game sicken you?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
DLH is working with an expert. CAC is icing on the cupcake, but not compulsory as he has competent people looking at coins. The coins speak for themselves.
P.S. Are you Laura or did Laura just shadow draft it for you? Even the diction and tone have a Lauraesque quality.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do really wish he would stick to CAC in the Seated series. The upgrade coin has definitely failed CAC. It was in the Phil Flannigan/Wong sale in the early 2000s as a 63 and was upgraded to 64 maybe 4-5 years ago.
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Normally I wouldn't notice or care, but someone just paid $25 to have a $100 coin CACed because of this CAC-only mantra that is abundant. If one or two posters are potentially using multiple ids to perpetuate this idea, then I think it is only fair that it be known. Given the similar content, diction, tone, syntax, and orthography, I thought the conjecture was relevant.
TDN
I agree that one must be careful on pop 1’s. However I have found that in many cases pcgs will not make more of them. Perhaps they actually care or maybe the coins do not exist.
A good example is pop 1 ms barber halves. I think I had 17 of them all cac.
Not to brag as I am not that way but that is hard to accomplish.
I am sure you have had similar pop 1’s.
While we are on the pop subject, the entire registry scoring is wrong and needs a total overhaul.
I suggested this to bj and to help but her hands are tied.
Pcgs has 30 years of pops. Having these 17 pop one’s all that time is amazing. These top barber halves are rarer than the 1904 s. In fact there are 26 pop 1 with none higher
This includes the plus coins. There are four 1904 in the top grade, Not rare at all.
So the 1904. Is the rarest overall but not in the highest grades. So why then is it’s score an 8.00.
This is stupid. The other 26 coins are actually much rarer in the highest grade,
So the point scores needs to be based on 30 years of pops and not someone’s opinion.
There needs to be a sliding point system with multiple scoring for each coin in more than one grade.
This would in time changes the prices for many coins. So be it.Yes it could
Create havoc for registry coin owners but it is the right think to do.
The current scoring is another joke especially when you have exact data, the pops, to work
With.
Perfection - The point scores are based on historical rarity of the date and not the PCGS pop.
If you were around collecting coins in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s , you would realize how the point scores were created. It is the same reasoning how values were created.
If the point scores were based on 30years of PCGS pops , the history of coin collecting
Would be forgotten.
I am EXTREMELY disappointed they added the 70CC MS64. To me, its a stain on my masterpiece.
Delloy needs a better understanding that not always must a top set have every finest known.
There are NO coins that Bruce and I know of to upgrade that set with. Like with his TD set, I would not let Bruce buy the MS68 78S-too ugly. I promise, if we sent in this set, the 78S would be at least a + anyway. Why kill a world class set?
@specialist said:
I am EXTREMELY disappointed they added the 70CC MS64. To me, its a stain on my masterpiece.
Delloy needs a better understanding that not always must a top set have every finest known.
There are NO coins that Bruce and I know of to upgrade that set with. Like with his TD set, I would not let Bruce buy the MS68 78S-too ugly. I promise, if we sent in this set, the 78S would be at least a + anyway. Why kill a world class set?
Question from the peanut gallery: Do you think they bought the 70-CC MS-64 just to hold a spot to be upgraded (if possible) sometime in the future? Great collections take time to assemble if you don't just buy one already completed by another collector in order to place your name on it as now it is yours.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do really wish he would stick to CAC in the Seated series. The upgrade coin has definitely failed CAC. It was in the Phil Flannigan/Wong sale in the early 2000s as a 63 and was upgraded to 64 maybe 4-5 years ago.
It’s ok...just not $150k ok
@specialist said:
I am EXTREMELY disappointed they added the 70CC MS64. To me, its a stain on my masterpiece.
Delloy needs a better understanding that not always must a top set have every finest known.
There are NO coins that Bruce and I know of to upgrade that set with.
It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word.
The 70CC MS64 is the finest graded (there is a 63 I like better). Unless a discovery happens, no upgrade. I can't help but be very protective over the sets I built. I have seen everything out there as has Bruce.
BTW, on the new sheriff in town, how quick everyone forgets the name Tyrannt. Bet most people do not know he owns the King of Siam set. He is extremely low key. He absolutely has the worlds most valuable coin collection. He only has been building it for 20+ years. He does it soley for his enjoyment.
I do respect what Delloy is doing-now.Huge task. But when something rubs me wrong, I won't hold back.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do really wish he would stick to CAC in the Seated series. The upgrade coin has definitely failed CAC. It was in the Phil Flannigan/Wong sale in the early 2000s as a 63 and was upgraded to 64 maybe 4-5 years ago.
It’s ok...just not $150k ok
@specialist said:
I am EXTREMELY disappointed they added the 70CC MS64. To me, its a stain on my masterpiece.
Delloy needs a better understanding that not always must a top set have every finest known.
There are NO coins that Bruce and I know of to upgrade that set with.
It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word.
@Insider2 said: @Oil2Olay said: "It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word."
What's really refreshing to me is to finely have a comment in this thread posted by a "true ex-pert."
You might have noticed that the real experts in this thread were not cutting down the mans coins. A couple of jealous agitators felt left out that everyone was not tooting their horns, so they blew them. (As usual.) It is getting old, and the man this thread is about has a wonderful collection. In fact, one that these two can only dream about.
How dare he buy a coin/coins that they didn't approve of.
@Insider2 said: @Oil2Olay said: "It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word."
What's really refreshing to me is to finely have a comment in this thread posted by a "true ex-pert."
You might have noticed that the real experts in this thread were not cutting down the mans coins. A couple of jealous agitators felt left out that everyone was not tooting their horns, so they blew them. (As usual.) It is getting old, and the man this thread is about has a wonderful collection. In fact, one that these two can only dream about.
How dare he buy a coin/coins that they didn't approve of.
@tradedollarnut said:
I do really wish he would stick to CAC in the Seated series. The upgrade coin has definitely failed CAC. It was in the Phil Flannigan/Wong sale in the early 2000s as a 63 and was upgraded to 64 maybe 4-5 years ago.
This new addition is rare old $5 gold coin from the New Orleans mint. Doug Winter describes this coin this way: The 1856-O is tied with the 1892-O for the lowest mintage figure of any New Orleans half eagle. This date is comparable in overall rarity to the 1855-O and it is very similar in overall and high grade rarity to the 1857-O. The 1856-O half eagle is scarce in all grades. When available, it generally grades VF to EF. Properly graded AU50 to AU53 examples are very scarce and AU55 to AU58 coins are very rare.
This new addition is significant in a couple ways. The collection takes another step closer to the Eliasberg Quest. In addition, the coin completes the New Orleans mint sets, both the 249 piece basic set and the 85 piece gold set. With this addition, both basic sets are ranked All Time Finest by the PCGS system. The Hansen sets top the Harry W. Bass sets that have had that distinction for last 20 years. The only other Hansen branch mint sets that have been completed are the Denver Mint basic sets. They are both the All Time Finest. This addition is another step to the top of the branch mint ladder.
This is the first addition since June 29th, which was 20 days ago. Hansen needs another 31 rare and difficult coins. At this rate, he should be able to complete the Quest on April 5th 2020. The search continues.
This 1856-O $5 AU58 gold specimen cert #34334637 has a PCGS POP of 8/3. The three top graded coins are two MS61s and a single MS60. I will let you be the judge if you think Hansen’s AU58 is more appealing than the three mint states. The PCGS Price Guide Value is $11,000. The coin does not have a lot of history except being offered recently on Douglas Winter Numismatics website. The listed price was $9,750. The website describes the coin this way: This lustrous yellow-gold example has alot of remaining "meat" and it exhibits very little actual wear. The strike is sharp save for the first three or four stars and the centers are uncommonly well detailed. The obverse is very choice with no deep or detracting marks; the reverse is a little more abraded but with nothing excessive for the grade.
Provenance: The Essex Collection, Ex Heritage 6/05: 7785 where it sold for $12,650. This is the plate coin for the second edition of the book "Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint, 1838-1861."
1856-O $5 AU58 POP 8/3 Survival 85
There are 31 remaining coins
The 14 coins that are not listed in “complete registry set” are Bold below.
Top 10 1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection) 1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection) 1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA) 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection) 1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue Collection AU58+; 2- Newly discovered coin XF45 offered in Heritage ANA auction opened for bidding July 26th)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased) 1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned, Eliasberg Specimen will be auctioned by Stack’s Bowers Galleries in August, 2018)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Quarter Dollar (Survival 4, Last auction 2015 for Eliasberg specimen)
Next 12 1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5) 1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1819 “No Variety” Half Eagle (Survival 7) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8) 1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9) 1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival 11) 1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1802 Half Dime (Survival 25)
1864-S Half Eagle (Survival 32, only 7 known in AU)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
I can promise you the next 12 will be impossible to very hard.
I control examples of the:
$1 1885 TD
$4 1880 coiled stella
25C 1827 original
10C 1894S
$10 1797 LG eagle
$10 1933 (my hedgie has 2-one the MS66 and the 65-which is probably a MS65+). Delloy does not seem to understand what the MS65 is worth (PCGS OGH CAC). I can see him end up buying a PCGS MS64 no bean because that is all that is around.
Good luck on buying ANY PCG PR65 CAC or better 1839 Gob.I have several cats on the prowl-and I have 2 placed. ...Simpson has the $2.5 1796 Stars in PCGS MS65 CAC and the 1866 $1-he has zero chance on it as that is a prize coin for Simpson. And good luck on the 70S I sold Bender!
Specialist, I previously described the next 10 this way.
Next 12 – These coins will be a challenge but should be able to find a specimen in desirable grade.
I still believe this to be true. He may have to find an lesser graded specimen than the ones you know and control. After watching for a couple months now, I can all ready see this happening.
I think one thing some overlook is that Hansen actually has time on his side. Because his goal of owning a complete collection is so vast, he has many options. He does not have to hurry to collect 35 or so holes in his collection since he can remain quite active focusing on thousands of upgrades. Or he can fill holes with lesser coins for the time being. Over the years, coins become available. And if a couple holes are not filled, his collection still will be considered one of the greatest of all time.
Comments
Wonderful and congrats. You are a perfectionist and an expert grader. The question though, I,assume you buy 95% of coins that are or will CAC. Do,you pretty much agree that most coins that are not CAC are overgraded! Lets call a spade a spade here. Most not all, agree?
Regardless doesn’t the entire crack out and pay for play game sicken you?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
.
From a previous post
CurrinCurrin Posts: 332 ✭✭✭ March 31, 2018 5:44PM
This whole set is about 18% cac. I have not looked at breaking out gold.
From a previous post, the first check I did the set was 18% CAC. John B said they going to review and update the notes for the entire collection in a couple months. Once he has all updates, I will check again. I believe CAC % is growing. I also believe the PCGS finest 1/0 is growing too. I thought I had the 1/0 % from a few months ago, but I cant readily find that number right now.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I am seeing inconsistencies everywhere. Two recent trade dollar purchases are both beaned and two grades apart. Both are 64s but one is a 65 and the other a 63.
Shrug
The grade on the holder and even the CAC sticker are just starting points, not end points
I wouldn't mind seeing the 1885 cross as is. Have you considered buying it TDN? Last I heard, it was priced fairly.
+1
I'll bring the bag or popcorn!
I agree! Loved brokering this coin to Mr. Hansen: https://davidlawrence.com/product/1438000
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Don't worry, Andy...we already bought the coin, but it wasn't based on your comments. In my opinion, the coin is a 10. But, some like it, some don't...it happens.
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
A little further background on this coin...
I bought it in the Stack's sale in 2010...
David Hall called us the next week and said that he wanted to make the coin the first "+" graded coin ever. So, they made it a 68+ (it was his favorite Barber quarter if memory serves and he graded it MS68+ all day long). So, it was marketed as PCGS's new idea to "+" grade. And we got the coin back at the Dallas Mid-Winter ANA show and sold it shortly thereafter to a dealer (it was CAC'd as well).
The collector that bought it from the dealer recently had it for sale and knowing the coin, I wanted it back as it belonged with DLH's Barber Quarter set...I know Laura disagrees, but I think that it's the best 1901-S in existence...we could have a contest at the ANA show to let collectors determine their favorite if she'd like to bring hers?
We plan on having it on display with some other coins from the Hansen Collection at the ANA show...
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
TDN: How about a trade????
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
Sorry. NFS
Eh. $5M is a lot of money. And no, it won’t cross. I tried and tried and tried.
Take it from experience- the fastest way to lose money is to buy 1/0s that aren’t acclaimed forever as the finest known
John - Do you know when the next Hansen duplicate auction is?
Sunshine Rare Coins
sunshinecoins.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html
Well, you didn't ask me but that's never stopped me before. (: >)
I do NOT agree that "most coins that are not CAC are overgraded". PCGS and NGC try to assign the most appropriate (i.e., accurate) grade to every coin. CAC plays a different game. CAC doesn't sticker every coin that they feel is accurately graded. They only sticker the ones they like enough at the grade to buy at the grade. As with any selective buyer, that's a relatively small subset of the coins that have been graded.
That said, of course we have have problems with overgrading, gradeflation, crackouts, conflicts of interest, etc. But that doesn't mean that all coins rejected by CAC are overgraded.
I would go on with this, but we're already spending too much time on CAC and not enough on the Hansen Watch.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Does he have any commems?
Since this is a DLH post, don’t you believe he would be better off buying 80% CAC coins?
I believe he’d be better off not buying 1/0 coins that aren’t CAC ....and spend the money on making the top 20 coins as amazing as possible. A 1901-S quarter might be in the top 100...no way in the top 20
That makes sense if the coins graded one point lower are virtually as good as the 1/0 coin. But if the 1/0 coin blows away the next best coins, it would be crazy to pass on it because it lacks a sticker.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
DLH is working with an expert. CAC is icing on the cupcake, but not compulsory as he has competent people looking at coins. The coins speak for themselves.
P.S. Are you Laura or did Laura just shadow draft it for you? Even the diction and tone have a Lauraesque quality.
That depends on why it didn’t sticker. Doctored? Pass. Fill your collection with doctored 1/0s and you lose all respect
No.offense but the,over grading is rampant and a disgrace. What other,business can you
Compare what,goes,on with coins too? None. It’s pay to play. They try to be fair.?
Are you kidding me? Are you on something? How can anyone explain thousands of,upgrades
A year? How can you defend the millions of,dollars, probably tens of millions being made,on
Upgrading for,the submitters and also,the fees . They,changed the grading standards,or,parameters. It’s no longer upgrading. A 66 ten’s years ago,is now a 67 a good amount of,times. End of story .
Explain why show,grading is priced triple and therefore looser,most,of,the,time?
If attempts to upgrade were not profitable it,would stop. It has not stopped. The upgrades get upgraded.
It’s like,turning the miles back on a car.
There is one way to fix it. If. Pcgs would buy sight unseen what they grade at published prices
The over grading would stop. Then they would be very selective,on what gets upgraded.
Good luck.
Back,to,DLH. Revisit,this in a year. i bet the number of cac coins he buys increases substantially.
He,is a shrewd and smart business person. Regardless if,he ever,sells he has,
Learned,the,game by getting hosed by many,dealers and buying schlock.
Fed up, he teamed up with one,of the most honest people in the business for,a,variety of reasons. I bet number one was trust. From what I,hear DLH likes,to meet many dealers,and he can size,them up. He did not like lots of,what he found Out. Of,course,it,took maybe 100m
Before he got to John and also became much smarter.
He does not always listen to John’s. advice but at,least,he hears it and knows what,is,what.
As another,honest dealer would say. “There is nothing wrong with paying the price (within
Reason) for,the top cac coins. Someone else,is,always going to,want,them.
There are so many examples. Years ago Wynn bought Modigliani,s reclining nude for,I think
26m. People, thought he was nuts. How about most Ferrari’s ten years ago?
Buy the best, mostly cac of course and forget the rest.
Again the best can be a gem au coin.
DLH buying with,Johns help,has changed dramatically from,the beginning.
For the most part it,seems when he pays top prices like,he did for,some of,Duckor walkers at,least he bought the best coins. Check back, in a year and see,what,he,purchased between
Now and then.
.
.
That's why I think that pursuing registry quality coins should be a labor of love rather than an investment. Grade inflation will destroy the value over time, and you are at the grading service's mercy if it is in a tight cycle when you need or want to move it quickly. CAC can help only but so much.
True, but it's highly unlikely that a doctored 1/0 coin will blow away the next best coins. And in the few cases where that happens, it might make sense to make an exception. Granted, that will probably never happen in any of the series you collect. But if, for example, you're doing Massachusetts silver by die variety and Bechtler gold, it's a very different story.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
No offense taken!
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It is utterly corrupt. You don't treat cancer (grade inflation) with mega doses of vitamin C (CAC) alone though - you must target the tumor directly and aggressively.
Laura is ‘specialist’
I completely agree Bruce. > @topstuf said:
Yes, he has a very nice set of silver commems: https://pcgs.com/setregistry/commemoratives/commemoratives-major-sets/silver-commemoratives-144-piece-mintmark-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1892-1954/publishedset/148548
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
John B. Great backstory on the 1901-S. First plus coin. Thanks for sharing.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
"Laura is specialist."
Among others...
Normally I wouldn't notice or care, but someone just paid $25 to have a $100 coin CACed because of this CAC-only mantra that is abundant. If one or two posters are potentially using multiple ids to perpetuate this idea, then I think it is only fair that it be known. Given the similar content, diction, tone, syntax, and orthography, I thought the conjecture was relevant.
TDN
I agree that one must be careful on pop 1’s. However I have found that in many cases pcgs will not make more of them. Perhaps they actually care or maybe the coins do not exist.
A good example is pop 1 ms barber halves. I think I had 17 of them all cac.
Not to brag as I am not that way but that is hard to accomplish.
I am sure you have had similar pop 1’s.
While we are on the pop subject, the entire registry scoring is wrong and needs a total overhaul.
I suggested this to bj and to help but her hands are tied.
Pcgs has 30 years of pops. Having these 17 pop one’s all that time is amazing. These top barber halves are rarer than the 1904 s. In fact there are 26 pop 1 with none higher
This includes the plus coins. There are four 1904 in the top grade, Not rare at all.
So the 1904. Is the rarest overall but not in the highest grades. So why then is it’s score an 8.00.
This is stupid. The other 26 coins are actually much rarer in the highest grade,
So the point scores needs to be based on 30 years of pops and not someone’s opinion.
There needs to be a sliding point system with multiple scoring for each coin in more than one grade.
This would in time changes the prices for many coins. So be it.Yes it could
Create havoc for registry coin owners but it is the right think to do.
The current scoring is another joke especially when you have exact data, the pops, to work
With.
Perfection - The point scores are based on historical rarity of the date and not the PCGS pop.
If you were around collecting coins in the 60’s, 70’s and 80’s , you would realize how the point scores were created. It is the same reasoning how values were created.
If the point scores were based on 30years of PCGS pops , the history of coin collecting
Would be forgotten.
Stewart
I am EXTREMELY disappointed they added the 70CC MS64. To me, its a stain on my masterpiece.
Delloy needs a better understanding that not always must a top set have every finest known.
There are NO coins that Bruce and I know of to upgrade that set with. Like with his TD set, I would not let Bruce buy the MS68 78S-too ugly. I promise, if we sent in this set, the 78S would be at least a + anyway. Why kill a world class set?
Question from the peanut gallery: Do you think they bought the 70-CC MS-64 just to hold a spot to be upgraded (if possible) sometime in the future? Great collections take time to assemble if you don't just buy one already completed by another collector in order to place your name on it as now it is yours.
It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word.
.
@Oil2Olay said: "It is so refreshing to see braggers owned by a Billionaire. He has done so without saying a single word."
What's really refreshing to me is to finely have a comment in this thread posted by a "true ex-pert."
The 70CC MS64 is the finest graded (there is a 63 I like better). Unless a discovery happens, no upgrade. I can't help but be very protective over the sets I built. I have seen everything out there as has Bruce.
BTW, on the new sheriff in town, how quick everyone forgets the name Tyrannt. Bet most people do not know he owns the King of Siam set. He is extremely low key. He absolutely has the worlds most valuable coin collection. He only has been building it for 20+ years. He does it soley for his enjoyment.
I do respect what Delloy is doing-now.Huge task. But when something rubs me wrong, I won't hold back.
Oh, lookie...idiot alt is back
Cool.. when he do something right, I hope you don’t hold back.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
You might have noticed that the real experts in this thread were not cutting down the mans coins. A couple of jealous agitators felt left out that everyone was not tooting their horns, so they blew them. (As usual.) It is getting old, and the man this thread is about has a wonderful collection. In fact, one that these two can only dream about.
How dare he buy a coin/coins that they didn't approve of.
Yawn. Stupid is as stupid posts
Read my post...You are one of the REAL EX-PERTS!
oily man, your too funny!!!
BREAKING NEWS! No... Nothing about Stormy
COUNTDOWN 31
1856-O $5 AU58 Gold
This new addition is rare old $5 gold coin from the New Orleans mint. Doug Winter describes this coin this way: The 1856-O is tied with the 1892-O for the lowest mintage figure of any New Orleans half eagle. This date is comparable in overall rarity to the 1855-O and it is very similar in overall and high grade rarity to the 1857-O. The 1856-O half eagle is scarce in all grades. When available, it generally grades VF to EF. Properly graded AU50 to AU53 examples are very scarce and AU55 to AU58 coins are very rare.
This new addition is significant in a couple ways. The collection takes another step closer to the Eliasberg Quest. In addition, the coin completes the New Orleans mint sets, both the 249 piece basic set and the 85 piece gold set. With this addition, both basic sets are ranked All Time Finest by the PCGS system. The Hansen sets top the Harry W. Bass sets that have had that distinction for last 20 years. The only other Hansen branch mint sets that have been completed are the Denver Mint basic sets. They are both the All Time Finest. This addition is another step to the top of the branch mint ladder.
This is the first addition since June 29th, which was 20 days ago. Hansen needs another 31 rare and difficult coins. At this rate, he should be able to complete the Quest on April 5th 2020. The search continues.
This 1856-O $5 AU58 gold specimen cert #34334637 has a PCGS POP of 8/3. The three top graded coins are two MS61s and a single MS60. I will let you be the judge if you think Hansen’s AU58 is more appealing than the three mint states. The PCGS Price Guide Value is $11,000. The coin does not have a lot of history except being offered recently on Douglas Winter Numismatics website. The listed price was $9,750. The website describes the coin this way: This lustrous yellow-gold example has alot of remaining "meat" and it exhibits very little actual wear. The strike is sharp save for the first three or four stars and the centers are uncommonly well detailed. The obverse is very choice with no deep or detracting marks; the reverse is a little more abraded but with nothing excessive for the grade.
Provenance: The Essex Collection, Ex Heritage 6/05: 7785 where it sold for $12,650. This is the plate coin for the second edition of the book "Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint, 1838-1861."
1856-O $5 AU58 POP 8/3 Survival 85
There are 31 remaining coins
The 14 coins that are not listed in “complete registry set” are Bold below.
Top 10
1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection)
1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA)
1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection)
1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue Collection AU58+; 2- Newly discovered coin XF45 offered in Heritage ANA auction opened for bidding July 26th)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased)
1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned, Eliasberg Specimen will be auctioned by Stack’s Bowers Galleries in August, 2018)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Quarter Dollar (Survival 4, Last auction 2015 for Eliasberg specimen)
Next 12
1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5)
1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1819 “No Variety” Half Eagle (Survival 7)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8)
1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9)
1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival 11)
1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1802 Half Dime (Survival 25)
1864-S Half Eagle (Survival 32, only 7 known in AU)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
Last 9
1796 “Stars" Quarter Eagle (Survival 40)
1856-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 50)
1839 Gobrecht Dollar Proof Only (Survival 60-75)
1840-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 65)
1841-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1854-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
1857-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 125)
1846-C Half Eagle (Survival 300)
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I can promise you the next 12 will be impossible to very hard.
I control examples of the:
$1 1885 TD
$4 1880 coiled stella
25C 1827 original
10C 1894S
$10 1797 LG eagle
$10 1933 (my hedgie has 2-one the MS66 and the 65-which is probably a MS65+). Delloy does not seem to understand what the MS65 is worth (PCGS OGH CAC). I can see him end up buying a PCGS MS64 no bean because that is all that is around.
Good luck on buying ANY PCG PR65 CAC or better 1839 Gob.I have several cats on the prowl-and I have 2 placed. ...Simpson has the $2.5 1796 Stars in PCGS MS65 CAC and the 1866 $1-he has zero chance on it as that is a prize coin for Simpson. And good luck on the 70S I sold Bender!
A really nice pickup!
Specialist, I previously described the next 10 this way.
Next 12 – These coins will be a challenge but should be able to find a specimen in desirable grade.
I still believe this to be true. He may have to find an lesser graded specimen than the ones you know and control. After watching for a couple months now, I can all ready see this happening.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I think one thing some overlook is that Hansen actually has time on his side. Because his goal of owning a complete collection is so vast, he has many options. He does not have to hurry to collect 35 or so holes in his collection since he can remain quite active focusing on thousands of upgrades. Or he can fill holes with lesser coins for the time being. Over the years, coins become available. And if a couple holes are not filled, his collection still will be considered one of the greatest of all time.
Nice job!
BTW, on the 1901s 25C. Any one remember this guy? May he RIP.....He was one of the greatest collectors ever
this is what his words were on the 01S 25:
just clearing the air about it. It reconfirmed my memory.
Again, I wish Delloy would understand, plastic is not always full quality.