….. I wish Mr. Hansen nothing but the best in his endeavor. I hope he is able to bring fantastic passion to the hobby. With his expanded focus into varieties, I hope he can learn to appreciate and be passionate about them as well. I hope this isn't just a power play accumulation. I'd like to see history to be written favorably in every aspect of his endeavor.
Key, welcome back after spending some time way. I appreciate your posting. There are a handful of joys that I get from this thread. One is the vast knowledge that I gain from other community members. I have several “experts" that provide input to this thread. Some directly as you see, and some by contacting me privately. Key, I hope you will continue to read the postings, and provide input when you can. Lastly, thanks for reading the 67 pages (now 68). Just keep in mind, the thread is dynamic. What you read today, may not be what was posted a couple months ago. There is some periodical cleanup done on the thread that is not in my control. So, I recommend for the good stuff, you need to keep abreast in real time.
Passion - Mercury Dimes... Let me first take a stab at passion. I had the pleasure to have dinner with Dell Loy and John last fall. There is no doubt in my mind that DL has passion for his collection, but not obsession. He showed interest in my collection and my passion for the hobby. I was impressed. I respectfully disagree that he has passion only for the rarities in his collection. DL’s enjoyment is finding a coin that will improve his collection. He searches for coins late night using the Collections.com and “Shop For Coins in This Set” feature. I think he actually buys coins himself that more in the neighborhood of coins that we as collectors would purchase. The difference in him, me and you (Key) is that he has John Brush and an expect team giving him professional advice on the rarities and high end coins. I am confident he enjoys and has excitement in purchasing a coin like 1854-S Half Eagle, but I believe his passion extends to some of the inexpensive varieties as mentioned.
Mercury Dimes were a big passion of Dell Loy’s and he was excited last year at this this time. I use the term in past tense because I believe he has lost some interest after the purchase of the 1931-S and 1938-S in 6/19/2019 Legend Auction. He was very aggressive in bidding against another Mercury Mega Collector. He was unjustifiable criticized for paying the winning bid prices. He upset the apple cart so badly, that one top Mercury Collector sold his collection 3-4 months after the sale. This shows the ugly side of the hobby. With your Mercury connection, you may know more about this deal than I. Most people don’t understand that Mr. Hansen is the under bidder on a lot of coins. I am pretty sure he is out-bided at a higher percentage than he wins. It will be interesting to see if he regains his keen interest in Mercury Dimes. I hope so because he has a really nice collection of Mercury Dimes even with all the criticizing that occurred.
@Currin said:
DL’s enjoyment is finding a coin that will improve his collection. He searches for coins late night using the Collections.com and “Shop For Coins in This Set” feature. I think he actually buys coins himself that more in the neighborhood of coins that we as collectors would purchase.
This is great to hear. It's a common point of comradery among collectors. This is also part of @tradedollarnut 's collecting that I always liked, especially when he posted his eBay pickups. I wonder how many of us are searching internet sites for coins at any given time!
Any thoughts from yourself or @JBatDavidLawrence about if Dell Loy knows everything that he has?...referencing P67 of this thread, that he likely has 4 1931-S FS-101 examples in top grades, of which three are unattributed. That is just one date, mind you. He needs to have specialists like myself or others to help him. Just having some good dealers is likely not enough. When I have been able to correct TPGs' grading/variety specialists and large well respected national dealers (not to mention even cherrypick them), I'm not sure if enough is currently being done. It would be fun to go through his collection to identify everything that is unattributed or even incorrectly attributed (more about that in a DM). It would likely require a few specialists.
Or what about thoughts on how history is either being preserved or...not? This collection could very well have plenty of judgement on it. I would believe that most involved would want those judgments to be positive. How history is preserved, or not, will probably have a significant impact on that.
And yes, I am somewhat aware of the Merc purchase situations of last year. Surrounding yourself with a lot of the right people (specialists, not just good dealers) and taking their several decades worth of knowledge to heart, with respect to their fields, is a good step in the right direction. I read a good bit of sound advice in this thread from TDN and others.
"If it's not fun, it's not worth it." - KeyMan64 Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
@Currin asked for opinions about labels on November 8. 2019 at 8:20PM on P58
My only thoughts are that a Hansen label is great but when it comes to provenance/pedigree, history should be preserved..... I do not believe that the mere purchasing of coins should allow for their history to be hidden or destroyed. Many of us are history nuts. To go against all of that does not make sense to me.
Just keep in mind when Mr. Hansen brands or rebrands his Collection, does not mean he is dropping, hiding, or destroying the provenance/pedigree of the coin. Last fall, I was thrilled with being able to hold several of Mr. Hansen coins in hand, just few hours after being relabeled. I think I got to hold them before Dell Loy. As you can see by a few of my pictures below, the pedigree is not lost. I agree with Key, that is the way it should be.
Just a couple months ago I posted a very detailed update on The D. L. Hansen Collection of Liberty Half Eagles. This is more or less a continuation of that discussion on 4/19/2020. If you don’t recall, I recommended looking back a couple pages and reread. In that discussion, we observed that Mr. Hansen upgraded at least five specimens from the Srotag Collection that was being offered in GreatCollection Auctions. Today’s coin is his 22nd Liberty Half Eagle upgrade in 2020. For a look ahead, I will post his 23rd in a couple days.
As I have stated before, I believe the Liberty Head $5 Gold Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1908) set of 201 coins may be one of Mr. Hansen favorite series. The Hansen Collection has some amazing coins, like the Pogue 1854-S that was purchased a few months ago. If you think of the set as an opera, the Ultra Rare 1854-S is the lead singer (or mega star) and the other 200 coins are the chorus (supporting cast). It does not appear Mr. Hansen is satisfied with an anything less than the best supporting cast possible. As reported about two months ago, the collection at that time had only two coins (1866-S & 1870-CC) graded F12, and three coins graded between F20 and VF45 (1853-C, 1847-O & 1860-S). All the remaining coins are grades AU50 or better. In the last couple months, the 1853-C has been upgraded to an AU58. Out of 201 coins, and only four coins are graded less than AU50, this is truly an amazing accomplishment. Anyone want to guess when the last of the remaining four will be replaced? Are you thinking in 2020?
1855-O Half Eagle PCGS MS61
The 1855-O is the first of two 1855 Half Eagles upgraded this week. The other was from the San Francisco mint. I will share that one in a couple days. The existing 1855-O was not a bad coin. The specimen was grade PCGS AU55 with POP 6/7. The new coin is a condition census top 5 (POP 4/1) specimen which I think may fit into Mr. Hansen plan and goal better.
David Akers description: This is the first of a trio of rare New Orleans Mint Half Eagles with comparably low mintages. All have appeared at auction approximately the same number of times but the 1855-O has been offered a few more times in AU or Unc. than the other two. This date actually appeared at auction less often, all grades combined, than any of the more popular C or D mint coins after 1842, including the high priced 1861-C and 1861-D. Almost all known specimens are in the Fine to EF range and I have never personally seen anything better than AU. Although Mr. Akers did not see any mint states prior to this comment in 1988, PCGS has four MS61 specimens in their population report. There may have been one or two with multiple submittals. They reported an estimate of five may exist at MS60 or Better. For MS65, none is estimated to exist. There is one coin that is graded higher than Hansen’s MS61. The coin is a PCGS MS62PL recovered from the S.S. Central America shipwreck.
According to PCGS Auction Report, the 1855-O Half Eagle MS61 has appeared in auction only once (certified by PCGS). In that appearance, the coin realized $16,100 in an October 1999, Bowers & Merena Auction. This was the Harry Bass Sale and the coin is pedigree to the Miles and Wolfson Collections. There have been three times that MS61 specimens certified by NGC have appeared in auction. Two of them may be the same coin. The Auction Record goes to one of these NGC coins that realized $21,850 in a January 2007, Stack’s Auction advertised as The Americana Sale. This coin is pedigreed to Pittman and Morgan Collection. Another public sale was a NGC MS61 that sold November 2011, Stack’s Bowers Auction where that coin realized $15,525. This coin is pedigreed to Pittman and Tucker Collections. I cannot verify, but this may the same coin that sold in 2007 at a record of $21,850. The most recent appearance is a NGC MS61that sold in Heritage’s September 2016 Auction. The coin was attributed to The Twelve Oaks Collection and realized $18,800. You may find it surprising with the big names listed here that you don’t see Eliasberg. That is because his coin is shown in the registry as an AU50.
NGC population as of today has only one coin graded MS61, with none finer. The one NGC MS61 remaining is the coin attributed to The Twelve Oaks Collection. This allows one to believe the possible pedigree for the Hansen coin may be one of the other coins that appeared in early NGC auctions. I don’t have the older auction images to verify. It would nice if someone can help. If you have the images from any of the mention sales, let me know if one of them matches Mr. Hansen’s new coin. Also, I cannot determine where the coin was purchased, so I am guessing a private transaction with the coin not advertised. PCGS Value Guide prices the coin a $30,000. The coin does not appear to be CAC Approved, so the negotiated price could be less. This is another nice Condition Census Top Five Upgrade. This set is amazing with or without the super star, 1854-S.
There is one more Liberty Half Eagle that is worthy to share before we move on to half dollars. This is the 23rd Liberty Half Eagle upgrade in 2020. We have seen this to be a very active series. I cannot state for sure if Hansen Liberty Half Eagle Collection is the greatest of all-times, but it does have a couple of achievements that could lead you to believe that to be true. The collection is on par as fine in condition as The Harry W. Bass Collection and equal the completeness to Louis Eliasberg. Can you name anyone past or present that could meet both of those standards? Even the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection is not complete in circulation strikes. If it was, I am not sure it could match Bass or Hansen in condition quality.
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As can be seen here, The Hansen Collection is in the top position of the All-Time registry. The others in the top 5 are Bass, Eliasberg, Smithsonian, and Hansen #2. Mr. Hansen's second set leads be to believe an amazing achievement. Has Mr. Hansen replaced more that 85% of the coins in this 201 coin series? This series presently has at least 63 coins that are the finest certified by PCGS or tied for the finest. At least 30 of these are the finest known POP 1/0 specimens. Also, there are 44 coins that are either second finest graded or tied for second. There are only about 50 coins (approx. 25%) that are not in the Condition Census Top 5 or tied. I don’t think we will see the upgrades stop here. PCGS describes the set as: It’s a long and challenging collection to complete, but it’s a tremendous achievement if you can do it. It is no doubt in my mind (although there are some non-believers) that Mr. Hansen has accomplished this “tremendous achievement”. I invite you to watch with me and let’s see just how good this very difficult set can become.
1855-S Half Eagle PCGS MS61
The 1855-S is the second of two 1855 Half Eagles upgrade this week. The other was 1855-O MS61 Half Eagle that I posted a couple days ago. As we have seen before, the existing 1855-S was not a bad coin. The specimen was grade PCGS AU58 with POP 14/2. The new coin is a condition census top 5 (POP 1/1) specimen. The Harry Bass coin is presently graded MS62 and I would agree it is probably a tick better than Mr. Hansen’s 1855-S PCGS MS61 specimen. These are the only two coins graded MS60 or Better by PCGS. I don’t think any coins were recovered from the wreck of the S.S. Central America that graded higher than AU58. The NGC population report indicates three are graded MS61 and one MS60. I not sure how exact these numbers are.
David Akers description: The 1855-S is actually more rare than the 1855-C or 1855-D based on my survey of 337 sales dating back to 1921. I think, however, that I have seen a few more of this date than I have of those two and also more than I have of the 1855-O. However, almost all specimens I have seen were well worn, VF or EF being typical, and I can recall seeing only two uncs and three or four AU's. I wonder if the lone two uncs that Mr. Akers reference are the Hansen and Bass specimens.
According to PCGS Auction Report, the 1855-S Half Eagle MS61 has appeared in auction only once (certified by PCGS). In that appearance, the coin realized $17,250 in an October 1999, Bowers & Merena Auction. This was the Harry Bass Sale. The Bass coin holds the Auction Record. There have been only one other time that a MS61 specimen certified by NGC have appeared in auction. That coin appeared in Heritage’s 2010 CSNS US Coin Auction in Milwaukee, WI. The coin has unknown pedigree at the sale. The NGC MS61 coin in the 2010 auction does not appear to be the same as the Hansen coin.
The coin was offered on Gerry Fortin Rare Coins Website. The ask price $22,970. I have no idea of negotiated price for this coin. Fortin described the coins as: Condition Census Rarity, Extremely Rare, Crusty Greenish-Gold Patina, Frosty Luster, Completely Struck, Accurately Graded, Osprey Collection. The 1855-S is for all intents and purposes the first collectible San Francisco half eagle, given the rarity of the 1854-S, Mintage of 61,000 and rarer than 1855 Charlotte and Dahlonega $5 half eagle counterparts. It is obtainable in grades up to AU55 but becomes very rare in AU58 and is extremely rare in full Uncirculated condition. This offering is one of the two mint state examples graded by PCGS. Surfaces are absolutely choice with exceptional satiny luster. Obverse patina is natural rose and orange-gold while the reverse adds splashes of rich orange-gold leading increased eye appeal. Strike is complete with fully defined stars and eagle wing tips. Many times, some of the highest graded survivors for a rare date are just not that attractive with collectors learning to love these pieces for what they are. This is not the case for this lovely 1855-S $5 half eagle offering. Eye appeal and condition census rarity are available together. The only comparable 1855-S half eagle to sell at auction was the Bass II coin sold over twenty years ago for $17,250. Today, that coin would be much more. Housed in 2015 style PCGS holder with CAC approval. A major United States gold offering from the Osprey Collection that belongs in one of the finest collections being assembled.
I have an update on the the 1855-O Liberty Half Eagle. This was passed on to me by a forum member that I consider as reliable.
The coin was sold to Hansen by Ron Karp of New York Gold Mart (no website, but look up on CCE). At the 2019 FUN Show, the coin was offered with an ask of $27,000. NYGM contacted the forum member a couple months ago to see if he had any interest in the coin, which he did not. NYGM presumably sold the coin to Hansen. We are guessing the sale price was low to mid $20,000's, given to they tried to sell to forum member again presumably before they let it go to John/Hansen at a lower price. Thanks for allowing me to share the story.
@Currin said:
I have an update on the the 1855-O Liberty Half Eagle. This was passed on to me by a forum member that I consider as reliable.
The coin was sold to Hansen by Ron Karp of New York Gold Mart (no website, but look up on CCE). At the 2019 FUN Show, the coin was offered with an ask of $27,000. NYGM contacted the forum member a couple months ago to see if he had any interest in the coin, which he did not. NYGM presumably sold the coin to Hansen. We are guessing the sale price was low to mid $20,000's, given to they tried to sell to forum member again presumably before they let it go to John/Hansen at a lower price. Thanks for allowing me to share the story.
I saw that coin on Gary’s Fortin’s site. It. caught my eye Actually it’s still there on hold......
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
I saw that coin on Gary’s Fortin’s site. It. caught my eye Actually it’s still there on hold......
Gerry Fortin has the 1855-S $5 on hold on his site, and that's clearly one of his "outdoor light" patented photos. The update involving NY Gold Mart concerns the 1855-O $5...
@Justacommeman said:
I saw that coin on Gary’s Fortin’s site. It. caught my eye Actually it’s still there on hold......
Gerry Fortin has the 1855-S $5 on hold on his site, and that's clearly one of his "outdoor light" patented photos. The update involving NY Gold Mart concerns the 1855-O $5...
Ah that’s why I didn’t follow. Thanks for the explanation!
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@Justacommeman said:
I saw that coin on Gary’s Fortin’s site. It. caught my eye Actually it’s still there on hold......
Gerry Fortin has the 1855-S $5 on hold on his site, and that's clearly one of his "outdoor light" patented photos. The update involving NY Gold Mart concerns the 1855-O $5...
After spending a couple weeks in the D.L. Hansen gold mine, let’s get back to discussing silver. With a couple recent upgrades to Seated Liberty Half Dollar series, I thought I would commence with a discussion of his complete Half Dollar Collection. First, the half dollars are complete for one of each except for the 1838-O Half Dollar Branch Mint Proof. Second, just how good is the collection? Let’s take a quick peek at each series.
Early Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1794-1839)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 5th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Pogue, Link, Eliasberg and a collection called Chicago. Mr. Hansen completed this set for the first time in May, 2017. He has not upgraded a coin in the 42-piece basic set in about 10 months. I not sure Mr. Hansen plans for this set. Someday in near future, will this set become a priority? To Be Determined.
Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891)
This half dollar series is one of Mr. Hansen bread and butter series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading the #2 – Eliasberg Collection by more than 3.5 points. No other competitors to mention.
Barber Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1892-1915)
Total dominance in the series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading great collections assembled by Friend, Shireman, and Perfection. The series was dominated by a collection assembled by Dr. and Mrs. Steven L. Duckor for almost a decade. The Duckor set was awarded the PCGS Hall of Fame. In addition to being currently #1 in the all-time category, The Hansen Collection has the top three spots in the current ranking. WOW!
Walking Liberty Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1916-1947)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 5th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Forsythe, GBW, Bauer, and Lee. Both the Forsythe and GBW sets were honored with the Hall of Fame. Mr. Hansen has not shown much interest in this series, although he has been known to upgrade a coin every now and then.
Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1948-1963)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 4th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Linda Gail, LOR, and EWP. The only HOF set (JFS - Set 1) has dropped to #8 in the ranking. Mr. Hansen has shown a little interest increase in last couple months, upgrading three coins in the 35 piece set.
Kennedy Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1964-Present)
Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading collections assembled by Whitlock, Acadia, PMScoggin, and Vennekotter. The only active collection is the Acadia Collection that held the top spot for about a decade before Hansen.
There are major six series that makes the complete Half Dollar Collection. Hansen has all-time finest sets in three of them, Liberty Seated, Barber, and Franklin. He is on the first page (top five all-time) for all six series (at the same time!). This is an amazing accomplishment. Can he improve the ranking for Early Half Dollars, Walking Liberty, and Franklin in 2020? Certainly! Let’s watch and see which of these series will move up a spot first.
1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS66+
This coin is the second of three PCGS POP 1/0 Seated Liberty Half Dollars that we have seen in the last few weeks. I updated you on the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery a few weeks ago. If I recalled correctly, it spawned some discussion. Our fellow expert Ron Guth offered these comments: Half Dollars of 1846 feature two different date logotypes: Medium Date and Tall Date. The differences between the two are obvious when the coins are placed side-by-side, but to attribute a single coin, you will need the aid of the attribution image above. The clearest difference is on the 1 of the date, which is tall and slender on the Tall Date, the 6, whose top ball is widely separated from the bottom loo, and the 4, which is shaped quite differently on both.
This coin was offered for sale by the firm, Rare Coin Wholesalers. One offer was via Ebay, where the coin was listed with Buy It Now of $73,000. Also, the coin was offered on the www.rarecoinwholesalers.com website with an ask of $69,500. The coin was described in the offer as: TALL DATE. SUPERB SATIN LUSTEROUS SURFACES. SOLE HIGHEST GRADED AT PCGS. CAC. Not much else was offered to describe the coin. For what it is worth, this was given in reference to coin: In 1846, American forces met an invading Mexican army in what is called the Battle of Palo Alto. After a Mexican siege was lifted, General Zachary Taylor’s scouts spotted the retreating Mexican army Taylor opted to engage. The battle, an American victory, would see just four American soldiers killed while the Mexican side lost nearly two hundred. This 1846 half dollar recalls the first major battle of the Mexican-American War. Interesting bit of history, but sure of the significance to the discussion of the coin.
I would rather see a nice provenance given for the coin. I do not think this coin has appeared in any public auctions. Maybe someone can certify. PCGS Price does not offer a suggested value for the grade unique coin. We have no idea of the negotiated sale in the private transaction. This is a nice upgrade to an already finest all-time set.
I don't recognize the Hansen 1846 MS66+ TD from any of the name sales of the past 45 yrs. But, odds would favor it having shown up at auction at least once prior. MS65 better date No Motto seated halves were quite scarce in the 1970's and 1980's. And most anything of quality seemed to end up in Jim Pryor's half dollar set (auctioned in 1996). He cherry picked the best of Garrett, Stack, Norweb, etc. Too bad he didn't get a chance at Eliasberg where he would have had a field day. I slabbed the first MS65 of this 1846 TD variety in early 1988. At that time, no one cared - value of $4200 then. That one could be in a 66 holder today. It had a lot of deep reddish/auburn toning with purplish high-lights. I checked Eliasberg, Queller, Pryor, James Stack and some other seated half dollar sales and could not locate the Hansen gem. I'll keep on looking......
“Kennedy Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1964-Present)
Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading collections assembled by Whitlock, Acadia, PMScoggin, and Vennekotter. The only active collection is the Acadia Collection that held the top spot for about a decade before Hansen.”
Thanks for reminding me to add the (2) 2019 coins!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
If it really sold for $26,400 in 2020-01, that would be a significant loss.
Perhaps it was held by Heritage and marketed by "Rare Coin Wholesalers", eventually finding a buyer.
Someone took the Newman coin out of the holder and left it without a clearly identified pedigree for the HFW2 sale?! ???? Not very helpful to the consignor with the coin taking a 43% hair cut. And it shouldn't have taken much effort at the auction house to track down the pedigree. And not surprisingly, NGC still lists 2 specimens of the 1846 TD in MS67 - almost certainly the former 2 grading events of this same coin. Talk about mucking up the pop reports on a finest known specimen! The owners of this coin between Newman and Hansen sure screwed things up.
But there's the minimum of 1 auction appearance for this 1846TD half. About the best pedigree you could ask for. Hmm 66+. This one could easily end up in a PCGS 67 holder someday.
@roadrunner said:
Some clueless person took the Newman coin out of the holder and left it without a clearly identified pedigree for the HFW2 sale. ???? Not very helpful to the consignor with the coin taking a 43% hair cut.
I wonder if the person who took it out of the holder and the consignor are one and the same?
And it shouldn't have taken a much effort at the auction house to track down the pedigree.
Would you have expected the auction house to have tracked this down?
Would you have expected the auction house to have tracked this down?
Yes, especially since the auction house also previously sold this coin out of Newman in Nov 2013. How hard could that have been? Considering the Several $$ Thousand dollars in fees they "earn" for posting such a coin (and an entire collection from this consignor) you'd think a simple auction search for all MS65 and higher 46 TDs wouldn't have been asking too much.....dealers on the bourse floor routinely look up previous auction appearances and transactions within a couple minutes. It's not hard. And in this case, the Newman coin should have popped right out as it was only 6-7 years ago....and it was Heritage that auctioned this coin in both 2013 and 2020....simpler yet. Usually the auction house writes the description....and fills in pedigrees for important coins....like this one. The consignor's 1851 MS67 quarter was still pedigreed to the Newman sale and boldly displayed. Yet somehow this 46TD fell through the cracks. I'd bet team Hansen knew the pedigree before they bought it. When I've consigned important coins with key pedigrees to auction I provide the auction house with that information to ensure it doesn't get "lost."
Would you have expected the auction house to have tracked this down?
Yes, especially since the auction house also previously sold this coin out of Newman in Nov 2013. How hard could that have been?
You know the deal. Pedigrees are occasionally omitted on purpose to make a coin look fresh. It's less effective as of late, given that all the information is out there and easy to access.
@Coinosaurus said:
know the deal. Pedigrees are occasionally omitted on purpose to make a coin look fresh. It's less effective as of late, given that all the information is out there and easy to access.
This is new to me. Why would a fresh coin appear better than one with great provenance? Do they think past sale prices will artificially give it a low price anchor?
@Coinosaurus said:
know the deal. Pedigrees are occasionally omitted on purpose to make a coin look fresh. It's less effective as of late, given that all the information is out there and easy to access.
This is new to me. Why would a fresh coin appear better than one with great provenance? Do they think past sale prices will artificially give it a low price anchor?
Fresh? A topic worth discussing. Just what is "fresh?"
I don't agree with Coinosaurus about hiding a wonderful pedigree for the potential pie in the sky "freshness" gambit. That didn't work well on Hansen's NGC MS67 1846 TD half (ex-Newman) which fell in price by over 40% over several years after conveniently not high-lighting or even mentioning the Newman price record pedigree. Huge mistake imo. And the follow up auction price to Newman confirms it. And the coin stayed the SAME grade. I might at least understand the logic if the coin upgraded to MS68 and you wanted this "finest known" to appear fresher. But, this wasn't the case at all.
I (via a 3rd party dealer) made a deal once (2008 ANA) with one of our forum-favored dealers. It included a pair of pop top, PCGS MS66 CAC seated halves for $75K. They took the coins and we got the check....for only 3 days though. In looking up the pedigrees on the coins they just "assumed" they went all the way back to Jim Pryor in 1996. In fact, I had bought them "ONLY" 5-6 years earlier at the 2002 Long Beach Goldberg's June sale - out of the high quality Mike Riordan seated coin collection.....both upgraded from PCGS 65 ogh's to 66. It wasn't my fault I wasn't around to buy them even cheaper out of the Pryor sale. And if that dealer's "research" into the previous Pryor/Riordan (Stack) sale they would have noted both coins were listed as 65's....not 66's. How'd they miss that fact? They never existed as 66's until my ownership. So much for thoroughly "researching" auction appearances before purchase.
I sent them both back in together immediately after the 2002 Goldberg sale and each was given 66 grades....and I effectively paid 66 money for each of them at that sale. In any case, that dealer came back a couple days after the 2008 ANA and nullified the deal, told me to return the check or there would be holy heck to pay. Both of these coins were pedigreed all the way back to James A. Stack in 1975. A hard to beat pedigree with Stack/Pryor. And both of them are finer than the current Hansen coins. Apparently the new definition of "Fresh" jumped to 10+ yrs at that "incident"....lol. They got their check back....I got the 2 coins back....and moved on.
Ironically, I sold the 1855 MS66 half a short time later after that blown deal.... and it netted 26% more ($38K) than the dealer's orig $30K price....and I netted several thousand more as well. Win-Win. Just a couple years later, in the down 2009-2011 market, that same James Stack/Pryor 1855 half fetched a monstrous $54,000 in late 2010....still a price record.....AND only 1-3 yrs after I offered it and auctioned it.....freshness was nil and played no part in that price record. Chalk it up for history books. Ambiguous "freshioso" vs. Famous Pedigrees and monster quality. Which do you pick? I'll take the trifecta of quality pop top, pedigree, and PCGS+ sticker.....and pass on the "freshness" excuse which comes in a lowly 4th. I wonder how Hansen looks at "freshness" when buying the best seated halves possible (at the right price) for their collection? How did Gene Gardner approach it?
In any case, that dealer came back a couple days after the 2008 ANA and nullified the deal, told me to return the check.
the customs of the coin trade are interesting to me and I don't understand what you wrote there - were you buying or selling, why did the dealer back out or nullify the deal or whatever, is that something that happens frequently?
Believe me, that's not the "custom." And you should never have to worry about this happening to you. 99.9% of coin transactions on a bourse floor between dealers (esp. PNG ones) are done and sealed when each walks the other way. No this doesn't happen often. It's never happened to anyone else I know of in my 45 yrs walking bourse floors. It would be one thing if a coin was counterfeit or something. Those kinds of deals do unwind weeks or even months after they occur. But this issue was supposedly only about "how fresh" the coins were. Not their quality, value, pedigree, or that they were upgraded from 65 to 66. I had no problem with unwinding the deal either and I knew I would find another buyer at the same or more money in short order....which I did. But, I also know that a lot of dealers out there would not have been as accommodating as my agent dealer and myself were.
In any case, that dealer came back a couple days after the 2008 ANA and nullified the deal, told me to return the check.
the customs of the coin trade are interesting to me and I don't understand what you wrote there - were you buying or selling, why did the dealer back out or nullify the deal or whatever, is that something that happens frequently?
Believe me, that's not the "custom." And you should never have to worry about this happening to you. 99.9% of coin transactions on a bourse floor between dealers (esp. PNG ones) are done and sealed when each walks the other way. No this doesn't happen often. It's never happened to anyone else I know of in my 45 yrs walking bourse floors. It would be one thing if a coin was counterfeit or something. Those kinds of deals do unwind weeks or even months after they occur. But this issue was supposedly only about "how fresh" the coins were. Not their quality, value, pedigree, or that they were upgraded from 65 to 66. I had no problem with unwinding the deal either and I knew I would find another buyer at the same or more money in short order....which I did. But, I also know that a lot of dealers out there would not have been as accommodating as my agent dealer and myself were.
It would be interesting to know what sort of representations your agent made to the buyer that made him feel entitled to insist on rescinding the deal. Of course we may never know.
FWIW, I've been on both sides of similar deals over the years. It's never pleasant. Probably best not to go further into it now, since we're going way OT.
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The "fresh" requirement brings a potential thorn in any transaction. You purchase a top quality slabbed coin from one of your favored, high profile, national dealers. When you go back to them in 3-9 yrs....they have no interest in your coin at any price as it is no longer "fresh enough" for them. Come back after 10 yrs they suggest. Best to find out about this stuff before doing business with them.
Update: The irony here is startling. Just found this quote concerning "fresh" from the same dealer - about 12 yrs later....right here in 2020.....you can't make this stuff up.....LOL.
"But if you buy really the right quality and eye appeal and hold a little longer then that, a coin really becomes fresh again after 5-6 years. We can NOT stress enough the importance of freshness."
So there you go. The former "FRESH" definition of 10 yrs has now been replaced by 5-6 yrs. I guess whatever suits the situation and market.
The 1851 PCGS MS65 half in the Hansen collection is ex-Evergreen collection showing up on the bourse floor of FUN 2002. I was offered the coin there for $33,000 when it was a fresh NGC MS66 tied for finest graded - though the PCGS 66 that had brought around $38K at that time was far superior....essentially a full grade better. I even offered $26K for the coin at that time and was refused. And a good thing too. The coin languished in the dealer's inventory for 2-3 yrs and made several trips to major auctions, fetching several thousand lower on each appearance until it fell under $20,000. But, it was bought back every time while an NGC66. I suppose as a "last resort" It was downgraded to a PCGS MS65 around 2004 then auctioned off for around $15K-$17K. It was the most "un-fresh" coin one could imagine at that time having been offered via fixed price list and at auction about a dozen times in 3 yrs. Interesting that even for a coin once in an NGC 66 holder, CAC won't sticker it as a 65.
The 1841 PCGS MS65 half in Hansen was a MS64 prior to around 2006. I noticed it when it first popped up on Pinnacle's inventory for around $5500 iirc (2006) and it seemed like a potential home run if it was an all there MS65, though the price seemed more indicative of a higher end 64 coin. As a 65 it was a pop 1 finest graded. I also noted that in the year proceeding that upgrade......it was probably seen multiple times at PCGS as the pop report looked very inflated at the 64 grade. My guess was that it went in 3-5 times to get the upgrade. I wonder if the pop reports were ever corrected? Probably not, as the pops back in Jan 2007 were 8 in MS64, and a total of 8 in the grades of MS62/63 combined. The pop today in MS64 is 7. So at least one submission was removed in the following 13 yrs. I bought that coin (2006?) sight unseen just on pop 1 status. Unfortunately, when I got the coin in hand it had a LOT of obverse chatter and cuts. I saw the coin as a 64+ at best....fitting the narrative of a 64+ coin that got lucky one day. So I flipped it to Heritage making a little profit. I did not want to own any lower end coins as the coin market was getting rather frothy by 2006. I think Heritage sold it close to the $8-10K range. I'm a little surprised it's a CAC coin today. But pop 1 coins have a way of "getting better" over time I guess. It's still pop 1, finest graded, almost 15 yrs later.
@wondercoin said:
“Kennedy Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1964-Present)
Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading collections assembled by Whitlock, Acadia, PMScoggin, and Vennekotter. The only active collection is the Acadia Collection that held the top spot for about a decade before Hansen.”
Thanks for reminding me to add the (2) 2019 coins!
Wondercoin
.
Mitch, I apologized for not picking up on your amazing Kennedy set. You are penalized for not having the set updated. Shame on you. With the update, you should be listed right there with Whitlock and Acadia. Get it done so you can take your rightful spot.
As for freshness vs pedigree discussion, I pick the pedigree all day long. If I want freshness, I would buy a 2020 monster coin from Justin. That is freshness.
“Mitch, I apologized for not picking up on your amazing Kennedy set. You are penalized for not having the set updated. Shame on you. With the update, you should be listed right there with Whitlock and Acadia. Get it done so you can take your rightful spot.”
Many (and often, most) of the coins in my modern registry sets are “homemade”. My son Justin is in charge of giving me a serial number from our submission batches for my quarter and 50C sets that never end. You reminded me that I was missing the (2) 50C as well as the near (15) P,D, S quarters from 2019. When I mentioned this to Justin, we discovered he has been “too busy” to list on eBay all the coins we got back from our screening/submission of a batch of around (500) 2019 Mint sets over 1 year ago. Talk about losing the “freshness” of our deal! 😂 Not to mention, failing to “turn the Inventory”!
On the other hand, he has been working very hard. He closed shop around 3:00 a.m. last night. No complaints.
Wondercoin
Edited to add... one of the (2) 2019 50C coins just added to my sets. Now, I am #2 in the 1964 - date (date set), #2 in the 1964-70 silver short set and #3 in the 1964-date MS set at 99% complete still missing 1 coin. If I keep producing some pop 1 homemade coins over the next (20) years of mint State Kennedy releases, I have a shot to catch Mr. Hansen by 2030! Let the games continue! Lol.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The last posting on 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar initiated a great discussion on pedigree vs non-pedigree vs freshness, etc. I appreciated everyone that participated in this discussion. Roadrunner kicked into high gear with his knowledge and experience in the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. Thank you for that. You may have some insight on this recent upgrade.
I spent some time in the last posting describing the Hansen Half Dollar Collection from Early US Coinage to the present day Kennedy half dollar. As a recap, this is what I contributed for the Seated Liberty Half Dollar series.
Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891)
This half dollar series is one of Mr. Hansen bread and butter series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading the #2 – Eliasberg Collection by more than 3.5 points. No other competitors to mention.
I thought I would spend just a little time digging deeper. The Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891) set requires 113 coins. Hansen Collection is the only active participant with a complete set. The Gettysburg Collection is completed except for the 1853-O No Arrows (only four known). That coin is the show stopper. The Southcounty Collection is completed except for 1853-O No Arrows and 1878-S (Survival Estimate Approx. 50 coins). A Fair-2 grade 1878-S PCGS specimen will set you back for about $20,000. There 30 active collections in the registry, with seven that are more that 90% complete. The Hansen Collection is the only current with GPA Weighted >60 (63.51). The Eliasberg Set is the only other with GPA Weighted 60.05. Also, they are the only two completed sets listed in the registry.
This is a tough set that is hard to tackle. There could be two or three other complete sets possible (using PCGS graded G6 and VG8 1853-O No Arrows). The Eliasberg Specimen estimated grade VG8 is not certified by PCGS and been off the market since Bowers & Merena, Inc.'s sale of the Eliasberg collection in 1997. I will close this discussion with this comment from PCGS: Start with the beautiful No Drapery half dollar of 1839 and finish with a run of popular low-mintage dates. In between you’ll encounter such major rarities as the 1853-O No Arrows, 1870-CC and 1878-S. This series began nearly a quarter of a century before the Civil War and didn’t end until 26 years after the surrender at Appomattox. Yes, more than half of the 19th century is represented in these historic coins and you’ll find that most of them are tough to find in any condition.
1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS67+, CAC Approved
This coin is the third of three PCGS POP 1/0 Seated Liberty Half Dollars that we have seen upgraded in the D.L. Hansen Collection in the last few weeks. I updated you on the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery a few weeks ago. You saw the much discussed 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar a couple days ago. I will wrap up with the 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar PCGS graded MS67+. Hansen’s PCGS POP 1/0 coin count is now 33 for the Seated Liberty Half Dollars.
The 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar is not a rare coin with PCGS estimating the survival at approx. 1000 coins. This is the only 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar graded MS67+ with four other specimens graded MS67. Jaime Hernandez provided these comments: Many Seated Liberty Half Dollars are undervalued and the 1885 is just one of them. This issue has a mintage of only 5,200 examples struck with many of them being lost, melted while others have been harshly cleaned or damaged. This date is comparable to the 1879, 1882, 1884, 1886 and 1887 all with mintages of 5,000 or less. If you can afford one in any grade, definitely try to pick one up.
This new upgrade is a head scratcher. The coin is from the “Perfection 8A” Collection that Hansen purchased about a year ago. The coin was graded MS67 and I am pretty sure tied for finest known with the other MS67s. I cannot say for certain when this coin was re-graded by PCGS. If I had to guess, I would think last fall when Mr. Hansen hosted the new branding, re-grading, and improve images event. With all the upgrades, I may have missed this one in real time. But, the coin has an interesting recent story that make me think it could be a new purchase.
The coin is listed in David Lawrence Rare Coins for Sunday 6/14/2020 Auction. Described as Finest Known! It has a five star eye appeal. The coin is described in the auction as: The finest graded for the date by both services combined. An absolutely special coin with no peers. A must for the collector who desires the best for his Registry Set. CAC approved for quality. PCGS+ grade for premium quality at the top of end of the assigned grade. Now, with all that said, the coin has been pulled, with this comment: Sorry you missed this item. It is no longer available. I find this very interesting and very hard for me to explain. If the coin was purchase by Mr. Hansen last year in a large lot, been regraded to MS67+ (Finest Known), then why was the coin in the DLRC Auction. I feel that I am missing a key piece of information here.
I cannot find this coin ever appearing in auction before Perfection. (help if you can). The unique finest graded coin is not given a value by PCGS Price Guide. If the coin had remain in the DLRC auction until conclusion, we would have a good idea of the value. A MS67 is valued at $20,000. I have to close by saying, Perfection hand-picked some great coins in his sets. I think the name is fitting. Take a close look at this coin. It is amazing.
@btcollects said:
how the heck do you remember all this stuff i forget if I just put my pants on
The hardest decision I made today was whether to give your comment a like, agree or lol. I went LOL
m
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
@btcollects said:
how the heck do you remember all this stuff i forget if I just put my pants on
I don't remember "all of it." Like everyone else, I have to (or should) go back and recheck catalogs and old listings to confirm I'm not getting anything wrong. Even had to yank out old pop reports. It's a good thing I saved a lot of that stuff. So many coins are toned similarly that you'd swear "that's the same coin" I once owned. Then you recheck photos and find out, nope, that's not the one. So that last post of mine took about 1-2 hrs of research to fact check the old noggin' which is often full of "replaced" facts. And it certainly helps if you handled the same coin or researched that date/mm at any time in your past. A lot of these same coins all appeared in the 1975-2010 period when I was paying the most attention.
I don't recognize the 1885 MS67 Hansen half. But with that toning pattern I'm sure you can find a previous auction appearance of that one between 1980 to 2015. Personally, I never got involved with pursuing the 1879-1890 low mintage Philly halves in superb gem condition. In my mind, there were plenty of choice and gem unc specimens that were saved at time of issue. Then you have the hundreds of proofs available for each date. So that's why my emphasis has always been on seated branch mints (S,O,CC) or pre-1856 Philly coins when proofs were basically non-existent. I've always liked the 1885 half as one of the tougher ones of the '79-'90 run. My real interest in those dates was to find pleasing XF-AU specimens with no PL surfaces, as the well worn business strikes are indeed very scarce, much more so than the uncs and proofs. That was quite apparent even back in 1974. But for many decades the price of proofs acted as "the ceiling" on what any circulated, post-1858 Philly seated half could bring. That ceiling is now lifted just in the past decade (or sooner).
If Hansen is looking for a good upgrade coin to their MS66, go find the 1862 NGC MS67 CAC half dollar I used to own. At that time it was only 1 of 6 total No Motto 67 halves with a CAC sticker - 4 PCGS and 2 NGC. They have most of those other original 67's in their set now. And even though PCGS would never cross my coin in the-pre 2010 era (5 attempts) it's an all there coin. Showed it to David Hall, Charlie Brown, and obviously JA and all agreed on the 67 (B coin) status. So with a little but of "Hansen Power" that's a coin that should end up as PCGS 67 CAC someday. I'm surprised it already hasn't been done. There is no better 1862 out there that I was aware of. Interesting that Hansen's 66 has the same general look as my old coin. They look to have come from the same source.
When I sold DlH the Seated years ago I had lots of dupes, one being the 1885.
It is one of the best looking a 10. At the time it did not have a plus.
DLH rarely buys direct. JB puts coins in his auctions. DLH saw it, JB did not have other bidders
so DLH purchased it. If there were bidder it would have went through the auction.
Great coin!
I thought my last post was the last of the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. I previously posted three PCGS TOP POP 1/0 specimens. The first was the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery POP 1/0 specimen a few weeks ago. Then the 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar Pop 1/0 a few days ago. I wrapped up with the 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar PCGS graded MS67 PCGS POP 1/0 specimen a couple days ago. This coin is not a POP 1/0, rather a second finest POP 1/1. The coin was added to collection, but has not been upgraded in the Seated Liberty Half Dollar set, yet. I have provided a lot of details the last few days on Mr. Hansen Half Dollar Collection and even more details on the Seated Liberty Half Dollars.
The D.L. Hansen Collection of Half Dollars gained the #1 All-Time registry status in Sept 2017. At that time, the weighed GPA was 60.834. Over the last two and half years, Mr. Hansen has improved the rating to 64.280! I am not going to take time to count how many upgrades that has required, but I will say this is the fifth coin replaced in 2020. So, let’s take a look at this latest upgrade.
1867-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65
This coin was minted in San Francisco a couple years post the civil war, and a couple years before the completion on the Transcontinental Railroad. I doubt this pristine coin was used to pay any of railroad workers, but it would not be far from imaging some half dollars from the same batch may have. Ron Guth had this to say about the coin: The 1867-S Half Dollar is fairly common in most grades up to Mint State, then it becomes quite scarce up to MS63. In MS64 and better grades, the 1867-S is a true rarity. There is, however, one standout -- the PCGS MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin that sold recently (2014) for $19,975 - this coin is a full two pints above any other 1867-S Half Dollar certified by PCGS. The mintmarks on this date are all minute, though one appears larger because it has been repunched.
Well things change in time. Today, the PCGS MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is only one point better than Hansen’s #2 coin. I will added, the last viewing of Eliasberg-Gardner coin, it was still in Green Label holder, so regrading could put the coin back to two points. For you that like varieties, the new Hansen coin is listed as WB-103, Die Pair 4. This is not attributed on the label. The MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is listed as WB-101, Die Pair 1. So, from a variety perspective, both could be considered POP 1/0 specimens.
The story on this coin is the appearances in the past 6-7 months. I guess there could be several reasons that Mr. Hansen did not purchase the coin in previous opportunities. Maybe, he is holding out for the Eliasberg-Gardner and is now seeing that may not happen. Maybe being the coin is not CAC. There may be other reasons, but it appear he passed on the coin at least four times (maybe five), and maybe one of those opportunities was a David Lawrence Rare Coin offer. Let’s look at the opportunities.
2019 September 5 - 8 Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature Auction - Long Beach #1299
The coin made a first appearance in the Heritage Long Beach auction when described as 1867-S/S Half Dollar, MS65, Repunched Mintmark, Condition Rarity. The auction description: The mintmark is slightly recut and centered under the stem and fletchings. Faint cracks appear under (UNIT)ED and through the arrowheads. The dies were heavily polished, explaining incomplete detail in certain areas like UST in TRUST. However, most of this Gem is razor-sharp, including Liberty's head, foot, and the eagle. Frosty, brilliant centers are surrounded by golden-brown, violet, crimson, and blue toning around the borders. The coin was pedigreed to be from Cody Brady Collection. This is only provenance for the coin that I could find. The coin realized $11,400.
2020 January 8 - 12 FUN US Coins Signature Auction - Orlando #1311
Same coin, but this time is in a PCGS MS65 holder. The coin was described as 1867-S/S Half Dollar, MS65, WB-103, A Rarity in This Grade. The auction description was a little different: Repunching on the mintmark is faint due to the die state of this piece, which shows metal flowlines in the fields The clash marks described by Bill Bugert are not yet visible on the obverse, although the reverse shows clashing within the shield, in the usual place. This golden-toned Gem has freckles of russet around the borders, and the strike is strong for the variety, save for weakness on the upper obverse stars. As a date, the 1867-S half dollar is scarce in any Mint State grade, and it is a major rarity at the Gem level. Only one finer coin is reported, an MS66 PCGS example. You would think in a PCGS holder the coin could fetch a little more, wrong. The coin realized $ 9,300. The coin lost a little more than $2K is value and the pedigree was dropped.
National Coin Wholesalers
In mid-March 2020 timeframe, the coin appears for sale on the NCW website, located in Hallandale Beach, FL. The coin was described only as: 1867-S 50C, MS PCGS Secure 65 PCGS. The asked price was $11,030. I do not know the results from this listing.
David Lawrence Rare Coins
In mid-April 2020 timeframe, the coin appears for sale on eBay listing DLRC as the seller. The coin was described only as: 1867-S 50c PCGS MS65 - Liberty Seated Half Dollar - Scarce S-Mint. The listing had this additional comment: Lustrous gem! Light golden toned centers surrounded by scattered russet and indigo tints. Sharply struck throughout with faint repunching of the mint mark due to the later die state. Only one example graded finer at PCGS! The asked price was $14,300, with Make an Offer opportunity. Again, I do not know the results from this listing, but if Mr. Hansen had any interest in buying the coin, you would think this would be the time.
Park Avenue Numismatics
This brings us the mid-May, about a month ago. This time the coin appears for sale on the PAN website. The coin was described only as: 50C 1867-S US Liberty Seated Half Dollar PCGS MS65. The asked price was $ 10,900, with Make an Offer opportunity.
The coin showed up in Mr. Hansen collection yesterday. I month has passed since the Park Avenue Numismatics listing, so I am not confident that is where Mr. Hansen purchased the coin. PCGS Price Guide has not placed a value on this coin. The MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is valued at $27,500. It took a long time, and changed many hands before this Cody Brady specimen was purchased by Mr. Hansen. Now, let’s watch and see if the MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner specimen comes on the market and if Mr. Hansen is interested. If not, I think this MS65 works well in his #1 Seated Liberty Half Dollars Collection.
1867-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65 WB-103, Die Pair 4, PCGS POP 1/1, (Gold Shield) Certification #38342435, PCGS #6322 PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown Provenance: Cody Brady Collection
@Perfection said:
When I sold DlH the Seated years ago I had lots of dupes, one being the 1885.
It is one of the best looking a 10. At the time it did not have a plus.
DLH rarely buys direct. JB puts coins in his auctions. DLH saw it, JB did not have other bidders
so DLH purchased it. If there were bidder it would have went through the auction.
Great coin!
.
Thanks for clearing that up. Selling a duplicate is the only thing that makes sense. I guessing he now has two 1885 Perfection Specimens. Maybe he will keep both. You have been away for awhile. Welcome back. Any addition that you can make to the discussion here is welcome.
I have to be honest and say that I have not posted that much on the One Dollar Gold Collection. These coins have a little following, but not that much. The D.L. Hansen Collection has the only active participant on All-Time Top Five List. That tells a lot there. The basic set requires 76 of the little princesses. It is not that easy of a task. This is the comments by PCGS: This long-lived series is composed of three different types and includes rarities from such romantic Mints as Dahlonega, Charlotte, and New Orleans as well as San Francisco and Philadelphia. These small coins are rich in history, and many issues were minted in extremely small quantities. Some of the low-mintage dates were hoarded in Gem condition, most notably those of 1879-89, while others are unknown in Mint State 65 or better. This is another series that is filled with rarities, but it makes a magnificent set when completed.
As stated by PCGS, this is a magnificent set when completed. Presently, Mr. Hansen has the only magnificent set in the registry. The top five All -Time is a who’s who in numismatic history. By registry grades, Mr. Hansen Collection rates slightly higher that Harry Bass. I think it is safe to say that Mr. Hansen’s Set of One Dollar Gold is comparable to Bass, and superior to Louis Eliasberg. I would think the reason that the National Numismatic Collection shows less than 100% may be that some of the latter and common dates were only obtained in proof examples. Lastly, the J.S.Morgan Collection is 100% complete (registry error) but the grade average is just slightly >MS50. This set was retired in 2014.
1880 One Dollar Gold, MS68+
This coin could be looked at as a common date One Dollar Gold. The PCGS estimated survival is approx. 1000 coins. Out of the 1000, approx. 650 coins are probable MS65 or Better. So, you can see the date is pretty common even in GEM condition. Expert David Akers provided these comments: A very popular date with a low mintage of only 1,636 pieces. However, this date was rather extensively hoarded and, as a result, it is one of the most common Type III gold dollars in Unc. Many superb quality specimens exist, and actually any specimen short of choice Unc, is very unusual.
The MS68+ Hansen Specimen is a PCGS POP 3/1. There are 27 that PCGS graded MS68, so you can see we are getting more common. There is only one graded MS69 from the David & Sharron Akers Collection. The coin sold in a Heritage 2014 Auction for $52,875. One of the three MS68+ specimens is the Kutz - Duckor coin that was recently in the “Type Set” Collection. I am not sure the location of the third specimen.
I cannot confirm where Mr. Hansen purchased the coin. The coin was available in mid-May on Park Avenue Numismatics Website. The coin was offered for $24,300. The coin appeared in two recent Heritage’s Auctions. The coin first appeared in December 2019 US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. The coin realized $24,000. The coin was described as: The low mintage of the 1880 gold dollar is not its only draw for collectors. It also has a high survival rate in Uncirculated grades, even in MS68. The two services combined have certified a total of 54 pieces in this grade, and each company has also graded a single example MS69. This availability in Gem (and finer) condition makes the 1880 gold dollar available for only a slight premium over a type coin price, a terrific deal for the collector who can then combine high grade with a remarkably low mintage. This is an exceptional piece that qualifies for "wonder coin" status. Each side displays bright mint frost as well as semireflective fields. Deep, even reddish-orange color covers both obverse and reverse, and the strike details are complete.
The coin appeared most recently in Heritage’s April 2020 Central States US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. In this auction, the coin only realized $21,000 (dropped $3K in a few months). COVID? This appears to be another coin that Mr. Hansen rescued from the crazy market. This is very nice low POP, CAC coin. It is a great addition the D.L. Hansen’s One Dollar Gold Collection.
1880 One Dollar Gold MS68+, CAC Approved Remarkable Surface Preservation Certification #38460706, PCGS #7581, POP 3/1 PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown Provenance: Unknown
I have to be honest and say that I have not posted that much on the One Dollar Gold Collection. These coins have a little following, but not that much. The D.L. Hansen Collection has the only active participant on All-Time Top Five List. That tells a lot there. The basic set requires 76 of the little princesses. It is not that easy of a task. This is the comments by PCGS: This long-lived series is composed of three different types and includes rarities from such romantic Mints as Dahlonega, Charlotte, and New Orleans as well as San Francisco and Philadelphia. These small coins are rich in history, and many issues were minted in extremely small quantities. Some of the low-mintage dates were hoarded in Gem condition, most notably those of 1879-89, while others are unknown in Mint State 65 or better. This is another series that is filled with rarities, but it makes a magnificent set when completed.
As stated by PCGS, this is a magnificent set when completed. Presently, Mr. Hansen has the only magnificent set in the registry. The top five All -Time is a who’s who in numismatic history. By registry grades, Mr. Hansen Collection rates slightly higher that Harry Bass. I think it is safe to say that Mr. Hansen’s Set of One Dollar Gold is comparable to Bass, and superior to Louis Eliasberg. I would think the reason that the National Numismatic Collection shows less than 100% may be that some of the latter and common dates were only obtained in proof examples. Lastly, the J.S.Morgan Collection is 100% complete (registry error) but the grade average is just slightly >MS50. This set was retired in 2014.
1880 One Dollar Gold, MS68+
This coin could be looked at as a common date One Dollar Gold. The PCGS estimated survival is approx. 1000 coins. Out of the 1000, approx. 650 coins are probable MS65 or Better. So, you can see the date is pretty common even in GEM condition. Expert David Akers provided these comments: A very popular date with a low mintage of only 1,636 pieces. However, this date was rather extensively hoarded and, as a result, it is one of the most common Type III gold dollars in Unc. Many superb quality specimens exist, and actually any specimen short of choice Unc, is very unusual.
The MS68+ Hansen Specimen is a PCGS POP 3/1. There are 27 that PCGS graded MS68, so you can see we are getting more common. There is only one graded MS69 from the David & Sharron Akers Collection. The coin sold in a Heritage 2014 Auction for $52,875. One of the three MS68+ specimens is the Kutz - Duckor coin that was recently in the “Type Set” Collection. I am not sure the location of the third specimen.
I cannot confirm where Mr. Hansen purchased the coin. The coin was available in mid-May on Park Avenue Numismatics Website. The coin was offered for $24,300. The coin appeared in two recent Heritage’s Auctions. The coin first appeared in December 2019 US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. The coin realized $24,000. The coin was described as: The low mintage of the 1880 gold dollar is not its only draw for collectors. It also has a high survival rate in Uncirculated grades, even in MS68. The two services combined have certified a total of 54 pieces in this grade, and each company has also graded a single example MS69. This availability in Gem (and finer) condition makes the 1880 gold dollar available for only a slight premium over a type coin price, a terrific deal for the collector who can then combine high grade with a remarkably low mintage. This is an exceptional piece that qualifies for "wonder coin" status. Each side displays bright mint frost as well as semireflective fields. Deep, even reddish-orange color covers both obverse and reverse, and the strike details are complete.
The coin appeared most recently in Heritage’s April 2020 Central States US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. In this auction, the coin only realized $21,000 (dropped $3K in a few months). COVID? This appears to be another coin that Mr. Hansen rescued from the crazy market. This is very nice low POP, CAC coin. It is a great addition the D.L. Hansen’s One Dollar Gold Collection.
1880 One Dollar Gold MS68+, CAC Approved Remarkable Surface Preservation Certification #38460706, PCGS #7581, POP 3/1 PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown Provenance: Unknown
I covered several great pieces that Mr. Hansen purchased in The D. Brent Pogue Collection Part VII: Masterpieces of United States Coinage in March. This is one that did not bubble to the top of my list with the 1904-O Barber Half Dollar MS67, PCGS POP 2/0; 1870-S Liberty Head Quarter Eagle, MS-64, POP 1/0; 1866-S Half Dime MS67 PCGS, POP 1/0; 1863 Liberty Seated Dollar MS67 PCGS, POP 1/0 and the $2M 1854-S Half Eagle. This coin is one of many purchases that Mr. Hansen made in Pogue sale that I did not report. I think he hit the Pogue well pretty hard on that quarantine night in March.
I rediscovered this upgrade when the nine coin Carson City Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1870-1878) set was modified this week. I don’t recall looking at this set with any detail before now. This little set really demonstrates the hundreds of mini-sets in Mr. Hansen’s mega-collection. This little set is described by PCGS as: Of all the U.S. branch mints, none is more revered or steeped in the romance of the 19th century than the mint at Carson City, Nevada. This nine piece set contains one from each issue from 1870 through 1878. Although none were struck in 1874, two were struck in 1873. One with, and the other without arrows at the date. The latter is one of the great rarities in U.S. numismatics. With an estimated 5 or 6 pieces known, you'll be spending six figures on this one if you can ever find one.
This would be a cool and fun little set to try to assemble. The ultra-rare 1873 without arrows makes the set impossible for most of us to even dream about completing. That may be the reason there are not that many current collectors. Presently, the Hansen Collection’s GPA for this set is 60.44. The set can jump to about 65 with the replacement of just two coins, 1870-CC and 1873-CC with Arrows.
The set has a really nice condition census 1873-CC with No Arrows in PCGS MS64. The CAC Approved coin carries the provenance from notable Haseltine-F. F. Boyd-Norweb- Green - Battleborn Collections. This coin alone is valued at $475,000.
The 1873-CC with Arrows is a condition census (POP 2/2) AU55 graded coin. For this coin, one specimen that could substantially improve this collection is the MS64 PCGS Eliasberg example. According to CoinFacts, this coin is tucked away in Tom Bender’s PCGS Registry Set. The top dog for the 1873-CC with Arrows PCGS coin is a MS65 Specimen that has provenance to the Norweb & Stellar Collections. This $200K coin would make a nice addition, so if you own it contact JB.
Secondly, the 1870-CC XF40 really needs replacing. Even in this circulating condition, there are only five PCGS higher graded coins. Two of them are circulating XF45 and three are AUs (50, 53, and 55). There is no 1870-CC Quarter Dollars graded AU55+ or better by PCGS. “THE COIN” is the MS63 estimated grade Eliasberg Specimen. The coin has a 100+ year provenance that includes William B. Wetmore, the Chapmans and the Clapps. According to CoinFacts, the coin has not surfaced in a public sale since the Eliasberg sale in 1997. It would be really cool to see this coin resurfacing in the D. L. Hansen Collection.
1878-CC Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar, MS66+
The year 1878 was the last year the quarter dollar was produced in Carson City. The description in the Pogue Sale provided a pretty good historic synopsis: 1878 proved to be the final year the Carson City Mint struck quarters as it increasingly directed its focus towards silver dollars. A total of 996,000 quarters were struck there, roughly one-fourth the annual production in the previous couple of years. This may have proven too generous for the Treasury's needs, as there is some thought that many were not released for use but were rather destroyed to meet a legally mandated limit of $50 million in circulating coins and fractional currency. Three obverse and reverse dies matched in four pairings have been identified, including one with a long thin die gouge running through Liberty, that accounts for nearly a third of the examples. Most coins originating from Carson City entered commerce and remained mostly in the West where they served a community distrustful of paper money. Fortunately, many Mint State examples were preserved, though because of the weak striking, most are at the lower end. Gems are quite rare and are eagerly pursued by advanced quarter collectors as well as Carson City Mint aficionados. With its astonishingly beautiful toning and its superlative level of preservation, it is difficult to imagine a superior example than the present coin.
The coin is discussed in a PCGS description by our very own expert Ron Guth: The 1878-CC was the last Quarter Dollar produced at the Carson City Mint. It is not a rare coin, but the demand for the CC-mintmark has boosted this date's popularity, especially in high grade. Most 1878-CC Quarter Dollars are well-struck and feature a frosty luster. One interesting variety shows a raised die line running diagonally upwards from Liberty's left knee (viewer's right) across her belly to just above the elbow of her right arm (viewer's left). Collectors should have no trouble locating Mint State examples in grades up to and including MS64. Gem examples are scarce, but mostly expensive. The finest example is the colorful PCGS MS67. There is now two MS67 specimens. The Pogue-Hansen coin has a little color too. The Stacks Bowers Auction described the coin as: A bold blend of blue-gray, salmon pink and champagne-apricot blankets the obverse, while the reverse displays rose-apricot, antique gold and powder blue. Sharply struck with full, frosty mint luster, this is an exceptionally well preserved and attractive survivor of the challenging Carson City Mint quarter series.
The coin realized $12,000 dollars in Stacks Bowers Auction of the D. Brent Pogue Collection Part VII: Masterpieces of United States Coinage in March. PCGS valued this coin at $12,000, so it appear Mr. Hansen was able to obtain this CAC Approved coin without a premium. This is a very nice addition to Mr. Hansen’s mega-collection and to this little nine coin Carson City set. Now, if he obtain the 1873-CC with Arrows Ex: Norweb -Stellar , and the 1870-CC Eliasberg Specimen, this amazing set will become unimaginable.
Stunning Gem 1878-CC Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar, MS66+ (Gold Shield) PCGS POP 2/2, CAC Approved Certification #38634053, PCGS #5509 PCGS Price Guide Value: $12,000 / Realized $12,000 Provenance: From the D. Brent Pogue Collection. Earlier from Heritage's CSNS Signature Auction of April 2013, lot 4215.
The Eliasberg 70-CC 25c was in the Stellar collection and I believe recently sold (along with the rest of the Stellar early-CC 25s) through Chris Napolitano. Stellar was the name for this collection when it was on the NGC registry long ago. Don't recall what/if name Napolitano marketed it under.
Comments
Key, welcome back after spending some time way. I appreciate your posting. There are a handful of joys that I get from this thread. One is the vast knowledge that I gain from other community members. I have several “experts" that provide input to this thread. Some directly as you see, and some by contacting me privately. Key, I hope you will continue to read the postings, and provide input when you can. Lastly, thanks for reading the 67 pages (now 68). Just keep in mind, the thread is dynamic. What you read today, may not be what was posted a couple months ago. There is some periodical cleanup done on the thread that is not in my control. So, I recommend for the good stuff, you need to keep abreast in real time.
Passion - Mercury Dimes... Let me first take a stab at passion. I had the pleasure to have dinner with Dell Loy and John last fall. There is no doubt in my mind that DL has passion for his collection, but not obsession. He showed interest in my collection and my passion for the hobby. I was impressed. I respectfully disagree that he has passion only for the rarities in his collection. DL’s enjoyment is finding a coin that will improve his collection. He searches for coins late night using the Collections.com and “Shop For Coins in This Set” feature. I think he actually buys coins himself that more in the neighborhood of coins that we as collectors would purchase. The difference in him, me and you (Key) is that he has John Brush and an expect team giving him professional advice on the rarities and high end coins. I am confident he enjoys and has excitement in purchasing a coin like 1854-S Half Eagle, but I believe his passion extends to some of the inexpensive varieties as mentioned.
Mercury Dimes were a big passion of Dell Loy’s and he was excited last year at this this time. I use the term in past tense because I believe he has lost some interest after the purchase of the 1931-S and 1938-S in 6/19/2019 Legend Auction. He was very aggressive in bidding against another Mercury Mega Collector. He was unjustifiable criticized for paying the winning bid prices. He upset the apple cart so badly, that one top Mercury Collector sold his collection 3-4 months after the sale. This shows the ugly side of the hobby. With your Mercury connection, you may know more about this deal than I. Most people don’t understand that Mr. Hansen is the under bidder on a lot of coins. I am pretty sure he is out-bided at a higher percentage than he wins. It will be interesting to see if he regains his keen interest in Mercury Dimes. I hope so because he has a really nice collection of Mercury Dimes even with all the criticizing that occurred.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
This is great to hear. It's a common point of comradery among collectors. This is also part of @tradedollarnut 's collecting that I always liked, especially when he posted his eBay pickups. I wonder how many of us are searching internet sites for coins at any given time!
@Currin Thank you for your reply.
Any thoughts from yourself or @JBatDavidLawrence about if Dell Loy knows everything that he has?...referencing P67 of this thread, that he likely has 4 1931-S FS-101 examples in top grades, of which three are unattributed. That is just one date, mind you. He needs to have specialists like myself or others to help him. Just having some good dealers is likely not enough. When I have been able to correct TPGs' grading/variety specialists and large well respected national dealers (not to mention even cherrypick them), I'm not sure if enough is currently being done. It would be fun to go through his collection to identify everything that is unattributed or even incorrectly attributed (more about that in a DM). It would likely require a few specialists.
Or what about thoughts on how history is either being preserved or...not? This collection could very well have plenty of judgement on it. I would believe that most involved would want those judgments to be positive. How history is preserved, or not, will probably have a significant impact on that.
And yes, I am somewhat aware of the Merc purchase situations of last year. Surrounding yourself with a lot of the right people (specialists, not just good dealers) and taking their several decades worth of knowledge to heart, with respect to their fields, is a good step in the right direction. I read a good bit of sound advice in this thread from TDN and others.
Looking for Top Pop Mercury Dime Varieties & High Grade Mercury Dime Toners.
Just keep in mind when Mr. Hansen brands or rebrands his Collection, does not mean he is dropping, hiding, or destroying the provenance/pedigree of the coin. Last fall, I was thrilled with being able to hold several of Mr. Hansen coins in hand, just few hours after being relabeled. I think I got to hold them before Dell Loy. As you can see by a few of my pictures below, the pedigree is not lost. I agree with Key, that is the way it should be.
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My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Wow...some amazing coins in your last post
Half Eagle Update 2
Just a couple months ago I posted a very detailed update on The D. L. Hansen Collection of Liberty Half Eagles. This is more or less a continuation of that discussion on 4/19/2020. If you don’t recall, I recommended looking back a couple pages and reread. In that discussion, we observed that Mr. Hansen upgraded at least five specimens from the Srotag Collection that was being offered in GreatCollection Auctions. Today’s coin is his 22nd Liberty Half Eagle upgrade in 2020. For a look ahead, I will post his 23rd in a couple days.
As I have stated before, I believe the Liberty Head $5 Gold Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1908) set of 201 coins may be one of Mr. Hansen favorite series. The Hansen Collection has some amazing coins, like the Pogue 1854-S that was purchased a few months ago. If you think of the set as an opera, the Ultra Rare 1854-S is the lead singer (or mega star) and the other 200 coins are the chorus (supporting cast). It does not appear Mr. Hansen is satisfied with an anything less than the best supporting cast possible. As reported about two months ago, the collection at that time had only two coins (1866-S & 1870-CC) graded F12, and three coins graded between F20 and VF45 (1853-C, 1847-O & 1860-S). All the remaining coins are grades AU50 or better. In the last couple months, the 1853-C has been upgraded to an AU58. Out of 201 coins, and only four coins are graded less than AU50, this is truly an amazing accomplishment. Anyone want to guess when the last of the remaining four will be replaced? Are you thinking in 2020?
1855-O Half Eagle PCGS MS61
The 1855-O is the first of two 1855 Half Eagles upgraded this week. The other was from the San Francisco mint. I will share that one in a couple days. The existing 1855-O was not a bad coin. The specimen was grade PCGS AU55 with POP 6/7. The new coin is a condition census top 5 (POP 4/1) specimen which I think may fit into Mr. Hansen plan and goal better.
David Akers description: This is the first of a trio of rare New Orleans Mint Half Eagles with comparably low mintages. All have appeared at auction approximately the same number of times but the 1855-O has been offered a few more times in AU or Unc. than the other two. This date actually appeared at auction less often, all grades combined, than any of the more popular C or D mint coins after 1842, including the high priced 1861-C and 1861-D. Almost all known specimens are in the Fine to EF range and I have never personally seen anything better than AU. Although Mr. Akers did not see any mint states prior to this comment in 1988, PCGS has four MS61 specimens in their population report. There may have been one or two with multiple submittals. They reported an estimate of five may exist at MS60 or Better. For MS65, none is estimated to exist. There is one coin that is graded higher than Hansen’s MS61. The coin is a PCGS MS62PL recovered from the S.S. Central America shipwreck.
According to PCGS Auction Report, the 1855-O Half Eagle MS61 has appeared in auction only once (certified by PCGS). In that appearance, the coin realized $16,100 in an October 1999, Bowers & Merena Auction. This was the Harry Bass Sale and the coin is pedigree to the Miles and Wolfson Collections. There have been three times that MS61 specimens certified by NGC have appeared in auction. Two of them may be the same coin. The Auction Record goes to one of these NGC coins that realized $21,850 in a January 2007, Stack’s Auction advertised as The Americana Sale. This coin is pedigreed to Pittman and Morgan Collection. Another public sale was a NGC MS61 that sold November 2011, Stack’s Bowers Auction where that coin realized $15,525. This coin is pedigreed to Pittman and Tucker Collections. I cannot verify, but this may the same coin that sold in 2007 at a record of $21,850. The most recent appearance is a NGC MS61that sold in Heritage’s September 2016 Auction. The coin was attributed to The Twelve Oaks Collection and realized $18,800. You may find it surprising with the big names listed here that you don’t see Eliasberg. That is because his coin is shown in the registry as an AU50.
NGC population as of today has only one coin graded MS61, with none finer. The one NGC MS61 remaining is the coin attributed to The Twelve Oaks Collection. This allows one to believe the possible pedigree for the Hansen coin may be one of the other coins that appeared in early NGC auctions. I don’t have the older auction images to verify. It would nice if someone can help. If you have the images from any of the mention sales, let me know if one of them matches Mr. Hansen’s new coin. Also, I cannot determine where the coin was purchased, so I am guessing a private transaction with the coin not advertised. PCGS Value Guide prices the coin a $30,000. The coin does not appear to be CAC Approved, so the negotiated price could be less. This is another nice Condition Census Top Five Upgrade. This set is amazing with or without the super star, 1854-S.
1855-O Half Eagle PSGS MS61
PCGS, POP 4/0 (with Shipwreck Specimen 4/1)
Certification #36378188, PCGS #8264
PCGV: $30,000 / Realized unknown
Provenance: Unknown
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Half Eagle Update 3
There is one more Liberty Half Eagle that is worthy to share before we move on to half dollars. This is the 23rd Liberty Half Eagle upgrade in 2020. We have seen this to be a very active series. I cannot state for sure if Hansen Liberty Half Eagle Collection is the greatest of all-times, but it does have a couple of achievements that could lead you to believe that to be true. The collection is on par as fine in condition as The Harry W. Bass Collection and equal the completeness to Louis Eliasberg. Can you name anyone past or present that could meet both of those standards? Even the Smithsonian National Numismatic Collection is not complete in circulation strikes. If it was, I am not sure it could match Bass or Hansen in condition quality.
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As can be seen here, The Hansen Collection is in the top position of the All-Time registry. The others in the top 5 are Bass, Eliasberg, Smithsonian, and Hansen #2. Mr. Hansen's second set leads be to believe an amazing achievement. Has Mr. Hansen replaced more that 85% of the coins in this 201 coin series? This series presently has at least 63 coins that are the finest certified by PCGS or tied for the finest. At least 30 of these are the finest known POP 1/0 specimens. Also, there are 44 coins that are either second finest graded or tied for second. There are only about 50 coins (approx. 25%) that are not in the Condition Census Top 5 or tied. I don’t think we will see the upgrades stop here. PCGS describes the set as: It’s a long and challenging collection to complete, but it’s a tremendous achievement if you can do it. It is no doubt in my mind (although there are some non-believers) that Mr. Hansen has accomplished this “tremendous achievement”. I invite you to watch with me and let’s see just how good this very difficult set can become.
1855-S Half Eagle PCGS MS61
The 1855-S is the second of two 1855 Half Eagles upgrade this week. The other was 1855-O MS61 Half Eagle that I posted a couple days ago. As we have seen before, the existing 1855-S was not a bad coin. The specimen was grade PCGS AU58 with POP 14/2. The new coin is a condition census top 5 (POP 1/1) specimen. The Harry Bass coin is presently graded MS62 and I would agree it is probably a tick better than Mr. Hansen’s 1855-S PCGS MS61 specimen. These are the only two coins graded MS60 or Better by PCGS. I don’t think any coins were recovered from the wreck of the S.S. Central America that graded higher than AU58. The NGC population report indicates three are graded MS61 and one MS60. I not sure how exact these numbers are.
David Akers description: The 1855-S is actually more rare than the 1855-C or 1855-D based on my survey of 337 sales dating back to 1921. I think, however, that I have seen a few more of this date than I have of those two and also more than I have of the 1855-O. However, almost all specimens I have seen were well worn, VF or EF being typical, and I can recall seeing only two uncs and three or four AU's. I wonder if the lone two uncs that Mr. Akers reference are the Hansen and Bass specimens.
According to PCGS Auction Report, the 1855-S Half Eagle MS61 has appeared in auction only once (certified by PCGS). In that appearance, the coin realized $17,250 in an October 1999, Bowers & Merena Auction. This was the Harry Bass Sale. The Bass coin holds the Auction Record. There have been only one other time that a MS61 specimen certified by NGC have appeared in auction. That coin appeared in Heritage’s 2010 CSNS US Coin Auction in Milwaukee, WI. The coin has unknown pedigree at the sale. The NGC MS61 coin in the 2010 auction does not appear to be the same as the Hansen coin.
The coin was offered on Gerry Fortin Rare Coins Website. The ask price $22,970. I have no idea of negotiated price for this coin. Fortin described the coins as: Condition Census Rarity, Extremely Rare, Crusty Greenish-Gold Patina, Frosty Luster, Completely Struck, Accurately Graded, Osprey Collection. The 1855-S is for all intents and purposes the first collectible San Francisco half eagle, given the rarity of the 1854-S, Mintage of 61,000 and rarer than 1855 Charlotte and Dahlonega $5 half eagle counterparts. It is obtainable in grades up to AU55 but becomes very rare in AU58 and is extremely rare in full Uncirculated condition. This offering is one of the two mint state examples graded by PCGS. Surfaces are absolutely choice with exceptional satiny luster. Obverse patina is natural rose and orange-gold while the reverse adds splashes of rich orange-gold leading increased eye appeal. Strike is complete with fully defined stars and eagle wing tips. Many times, some of the highest graded survivors for a rare date are just not that attractive with collectors learning to love these pieces for what they are. This is not the case for this lovely 1855-S $5 half eagle offering. Eye appeal and condition census rarity are available together. The only comparable 1855-S half eagle to sell at auction was the Bass II coin sold over twenty years ago for $17,250. Today, that coin would be much more. Housed in 2015 style PCGS holder with CAC approval. A major United States gold offering from the Osprey Collection that belongs in one of the finest collections being assembled.
1855-S Half Eagle PCGS MS61
PCGS, POP 1/1, CAC Approved
Certification #33032664, PCGS #8265
PCGV: $17,500 / Ask $22,970
Provenance: Osprey Collection
Image courtesy of Gerry Fortin Rare Coins Website
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I have an update on the the 1855-O Liberty Half Eagle. This was passed on to me by a forum member that I consider as reliable.
The coin was sold to Hansen by Ron Karp of New York Gold Mart (no website, but look up on CCE). At the 2019 FUN Show, the coin was offered with an ask of $27,000. NYGM contacted the forum member a couple months ago to see if he had any interest in the coin, which he did not. NYGM presumably sold the coin to Hansen. We are guessing the sale price was low to mid $20,000's, given to they tried to sell to forum member again presumably before they let it go to John/Hansen at a lower price. Thanks for allowing me to share the story.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I saw that coin on Gary’s Fortin’s site. It. caught my eye Actually it’s still there on hold......
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Gerry Fortin has the 1855-S $5 on hold on his site, and that's clearly one of his "outdoor light" patented photos. The update involving NY Gold Mart concerns the 1855-O $5...
Ah that’s why I didn’t follow. Thanks for the explanation!
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Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
“Outdoor light patented photos” haha.
Latin American Collection
Liberty Half Dollar Upgrade
After spending a couple weeks in the D.L. Hansen gold mine, let’s get back to discussing silver. With a couple recent upgrades to Seated Liberty Half Dollar series, I thought I would commence with a discussion of his complete Half Dollar Collection. First, the half dollars are complete for one of each except for the 1838-O Half Dollar Branch Mint Proof. Second, just how good is the collection? Let’s take a quick peek at each series.
Early Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1794-1839)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 5th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Pogue, Link, Eliasberg and a collection called Chicago. Mr. Hansen completed this set for the first time in May, 2017. He has not upgraded a coin in the 42-piece basic set in about 10 months. I not sure Mr. Hansen plans for this set. Someday in near future, will this set become a priority? To Be Determined.
Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891)
This half dollar series is one of Mr. Hansen bread and butter series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading the #2 – Eliasberg Collection by more than 3.5 points. No other competitors to mention.
Barber Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1892-1915)
Total dominance in the series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading great collections assembled by Friend, Shireman, and Perfection. The series was dominated by a collection assembled by Dr. and Mrs. Steven L. Duckor for almost a decade. The Duckor set was awarded the PCGS Hall of Fame. In addition to being currently #1 in the all-time category, The Hansen Collection has the top three spots in the current ranking. WOW!
Walking Liberty Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1916-1947)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 5th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Forsythe, GBW, Bauer, and Lee. Both the Forsythe and GBW sets were honored with the Hall of Fame. Mr. Hansen has not shown much interest in this series, although he has been known to upgrade a coin every now and then.
Franklin Half Dollars FBL Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1948-1963)
Currently, DLH Collection is ranked 4th in the all-time registry, trailing collections assembled by Linda Gail, LOR, and EWP. The only HOF set (JFS - Set 1) has dropped to #8 in the ranking. Mr. Hansen has shown a little interest increase in last couple months, upgrading three coins in the 35 piece set.
Kennedy Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1964-Present)
Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading collections assembled by Whitlock, Acadia, PMScoggin, and Vennekotter. The only active collection is the Acadia Collection that held the top spot for about a decade before Hansen.
There are major six series that makes the complete Half Dollar Collection. Hansen has all-time finest sets in three of them, Liberty Seated, Barber, and Franklin. He is on the first page (top five all-time) for all six series (at the same time!). This is an amazing accomplishment. Can he improve the ranking for Early Half Dollars, Walking Liberty, and Franklin in 2020? Certainly! Let’s watch and see which of these series will move up a spot first.
1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS66+
This coin is the second of three PCGS POP 1/0 Seated Liberty Half Dollars that we have seen in the last few weeks. I updated you on the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery a few weeks ago. If I recalled correctly, it spawned some discussion. Our fellow expert Ron Guth offered these comments: Half Dollars of 1846 feature two different date logotypes: Medium Date and Tall Date. The differences between the two are obvious when the coins are placed side-by-side, but to attribute a single coin, you will need the aid of the attribution image above. The clearest difference is on the 1 of the date, which is tall and slender on the Tall Date, the 6, whose top ball is widely separated from the bottom loo, and the 4, which is shaped quite differently on both.
This coin was offered for sale by the firm, Rare Coin Wholesalers. One offer was via Ebay, where the coin was listed with Buy It Now of $73,000. Also, the coin was offered on the www.rarecoinwholesalers.com website with an ask of $69,500. The coin was described in the offer as: TALL DATE. SUPERB SATIN LUSTEROUS SURFACES. SOLE HIGHEST GRADED AT PCGS. CAC. Not much else was offered to describe the coin. For what it is worth, this was given in reference to coin: In 1846, American forces met an invading Mexican army in what is called the Battle of Palo Alto. After a Mexican siege was lifted, General Zachary Taylor’s scouts spotted the retreating Mexican army Taylor opted to engage. The battle, an American victory, would see just four American soldiers killed while the Mexican side lost nearly two hundred. This 1846 half dollar recalls the first major battle of the Mexican-American War. Interesting bit of history, but sure of the significance to the discussion of the coin.
I would rather see a nice provenance given for the coin. I do not think this coin has appeared in any public auctions. Maybe someone can certify. PCGS Price does not offer a suggested value for the grade unique coin. We have no idea of the negotiated sale in the private transaction. This is a nice upgrade to an already finest all-time set.
1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS66+ (Gold Shield)
PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
Certification #39225889, PCGS #6252
PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown
Provenance: Unknown
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Another easy marker for the tall date is the ball of the 6 is farther from the loop of the 6.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1846-50c-tall-date/6252
I don't recognize the Hansen 1846 MS66+ TD from any of the name sales of the past 45 yrs. But, odds would favor it having shown up at auction at least once prior. MS65 better date No Motto seated halves were quite scarce in the 1970's and 1980's. And most anything of quality seemed to end up in Jim Pryor's half dollar set (auctioned in 1996). He cherry picked the best of Garrett, Stack, Norweb, etc. Too bad he didn't get a chance at Eliasberg where he would have had a field day. I slabbed the first MS65 of this 1846 TD variety in early 1988. At that time, no one cared - value of $4200 then. That one could be in a 66 holder today. It had a lot of deep reddish/auburn toning with purplish high-lights. I checked Eliasberg, Queller, Pryor, James Stack and some other seated half dollar sales and could not locate the Hansen gem. I'll keep on looking......
The 1846 TD was in a NGC 67 holder when it sold back in 2013.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dollars/1846-50c-tall-date-ms67-ngc-wb-106/a/1190-33471.s?hdnJumpToLot=1&x=0&y=0
Nice provenance: Green, Newman, Hansen.
With that provenance, definitely off the market for a very long time.
“Kennedy Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1964-Present)
Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading collections assembled by Whitlock, Acadia, PMScoggin, and Vennekotter. The only active collection is the Acadia Collection that held the top spot for about a decade before Hansen.”
Thanks for reminding me to add the (2) 2019 coins!
Wondercoin
It was also in a NGC MS-67 holder when it sold(?) at Heritage in 2020-1:
$26,400 Heritage 2020-01 https://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half-dollars/half-dollars/1846-50c-tall-date-spiked-4-wb-108-die-pair-14-r3-ms67-ngc-pcgs-801751-/a/1311-4208.s
$47,000 Heritage 2013-11 (Newman collection)
If it really sold for $26,400 in 2020-01, that would be a significant loss.
Perhaps it was held by Heritage and marketed by "Rare Coin Wholesalers", eventually finding a buyer.
https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1846-50c-tall-date/6252
https://www.pcgs.com/auctionprices/details/1846-tall-date-ms/6252
Someone took the Newman coin out of the holder and left it without a clearly identified pedigree for the HFW2 sale?! ???? Not very helpful to the consignor with the coin taking a 43% hair cut. And it shouldn't have taken much effort at the auction house to track down the pedigree. And not surprisingly, NGC still lists 2 specimens of the 1846 TD in MS67 - almost certainly the former 2 grading events of this same coin. Talk about mucking up the pop reports on a finest known specimen! The owners of this coin between Newman and Hansen sure screwed things up.
But there's the minimum of 1 auction appearance for this 1846TD half. About the best pedigree you could ask for. Hmm 66+. This one could easily end up in a PCGS 67 holder someday.
I wonder if the person who took it out of the holder and the consignor are one and the same?
Would you have expected the auction house to have tracked this down?
Yes, especially since the auction house also previously sold this coin out of Newman in Nov 2013. How hard could that have been? Considering the Several $$ Thousand dollars in fees they "earn" for posting such a coin (and an entire collection from this consignor) you'd think a simple auction search for all MS65 and higher 46 TDs wouldn't have been asking too much.....dealers on the bourse floor routinely look up previous auction appearances and transactions within a couple minutes. It's not hard. And in this case, the Newman coin should have popped right out as it was only 6-7 years ago....and it was Heritage that auctioned this coin in both 2013 and 2020....simpler yet. Usually the auction house writes the description....and fills in pedigrees for important coins....like this one. The consignor's 1851 MS67 quarter was still pedigreed to the Newman sale and boldly displayed. Yet somehow this 46TD fell through the cracks. I'd bet team Hansen knew the pedigree before they bought it. When I've consigned important coins with key pedigrees to auction I provide the auction house with that information to ensure it doesn't get "lost."
You know the deal. Pedigrees are occasionally omitted on purpose to make a coin look fresh. It's less effective as of late, given that all the information is out there and easy to access.
Isn’t this the same reason certain dealers want those beautiful trueviews hidden?
This is new to me. Why would a fresh coin appear better than one with great provenance? Do they think past sale prices will artificially give it a low price anchor?
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Fresh? A topic worth discussing. Just what is "fresh?"
I don't agree with Coinosaurus about hiding a wonderful pedigree for the potential pie in the sky "freshness" gambit. That didn't work well on Hansen's NGC MS67 1846 TD half (ex-Newman) which fell in price by over 40% over several years after conveniently not high-lighting or even mentioning the Newman price record pedigree. Huge mistake imo. And the follow up auction price to Newman confirms it. And the coin stayed the SAME grade. I might at least understand the logic if the coin upgraded to MS68 and you wanted this "finest known" to appear fresher. But, this wasn't the case at all.
I (via a 3rd party dealer) made a deal once (2008 ANA) with one of our forum-favored dealers. It included a pair of pop top, PCGS MS66 CAC seated halves for $75K. They took the coins and we got the check....for only 3 days though. In looking up the pedigrees on the coins they just "assumed" they went all the way back to Jim Pryor in 1996. In fact, I had bought them "ONLY" 5-6 years earlier at the 2002 Long Beach Goldberg's June sale - out of the high quality Mike Riordan seated coin collection.....both upgraded from PCGS 65 ogh's to 66. It wasn't my fault I wasn't around to buy them even cheaper out of the Pryor sale. And if that dealer's "research" into the previous Pryor/Riordan (Stack) sale they would have noted both coins were listed as 65's....not 66's. How'd they miss that fact? They never existed as 66's until my ownership. So much for thoroughly "researching" auction appearances before purchase.
I sent them both back in together immediately after the 2002 Goldberg sale and each was given 66 grades....and I effectively paid 66 money for each of them at that sale. In any case, that dealer came back a couple days after the 2008 ANA and nullified the deal, told me to return the check or there would be holy heck to pay. Both of these coins were pedigreed all the way back to James A. Stack in 1975. A hard to beat pedigree with Stack/Pryor. And both of them are finer than the current Hansen coins. Apparently the new definition of "Fresh" jumped to 10+ yrs at that "incident"....lol. They got their check back....I got the 2 coins back....and moved on.
Ironically, I sold the 1855 MS66 half a short time later after that blown deal.... and it netted 26% more ($38K) than the dealer's orig $30K price....and I netted several thousand more as well. Win-Win. Just a couple years later, in the down 2009-2011 market, that same James Stack/Pryor 1855 half fetched a monstrous $54,000 in late 2010....still a price record.....AND only 1-3 yrs after I offered it and auctioned it.....freshness was nil and played no part in that price record. Chalk it up for history books. Ambiguous "freshioso" vs. Famous Pedigrees and monster quality. Which do you pick? I'll take the trifecta of quality pop top, pedigree, and PCGS+ sticker.....and pass on the "freshness" excuse which comes in a lowly 4th. I wonder how Hansen looks at "freshness" when buying the best seated halves possible (at the right price) for their collection? How did Gene Gardner approach it?
Believe me, that's not the "custom." And you should never have to worry about this happening to you. 99.9% of coin transactions on a bourse floor between dealers (esp. PNG ones) are done and sealed when each walks the other way. No this doesn't happen often. It's never happened to anyone else I know of in my 45 yrs walking bourse floors. It would be one thing if a coin was counterfeit or something. Those kinds of deals do unwind weeks or even months after they occur. But this issue was supposedly only about "how fresh" the coins were. Not their quality, value, pedigree, or that they were upgraded from 65 to 66. I had no problem with unwinding the deal either and I knew I would find another buyer at the same or more money in short order....which I did. But, I also know that a lot of dealers out there would not have been as accommodating as my agent dealer and myself were.
It would be interesting to know what sort of representations your agent made to the buyer that made him feel entitled to insist on rescinding the deal. Of course we may never know.
FWIW, I've been on both sides of similar deals over the years. It's never pleasant. Probably best not to go further into it now, since we're going way OT.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
The "fresh" requirement brings a potential thorn in any transaction. You purchase a top quality slabbed coin from one of your favored, high profile, national dealers. When you go back to them in 3-9 yrs....they have no interest in your coin at any price as it is no longer "fresh enough" for them. Come back after 10 yrs they suggest. Best to find out about this stuff before doing business with them.
Update: The irony here is startling. Just found this quote concerning "fresh" from the same dealer - about 12 yrs later....right here in 2020.....you can't make this stuff up.....LOL.
"But if you buy really the right quality and eye appeal and hold a little longer then that, a coin really becomes fresh again after 5-6 years. We can NOT stress enough the importance of freshness."
So there you go. The former "FRESH" definition of 10 yrs has now been replaced by 5-6 yrs. I guess whatever suits the situation and market.
The 1851 PCGS MS65 half in the Hansen collection is ex-Evergreen collection showing up on the bourse floor of FUN 2002. I was offered the coin there for $33,000 when it was a fresh NGC MS66 tied for finest graded - though the PCGS 66 that had brought around $38K at that time was far superior....essentially a full grade better. I even offered $26K for the coin at that time and was refused. And a good thing too. The coin languished in the dealer's inventory for 2-3 yrs and made several trips to major auctions, fetching several thousand lower on each appearance until it fell under $20,000. But, it was bought back every time while an NGC66. I suppose as a "last resort" It was downgraded to a PCGS MS65 around 2004 then auctioned off for around $15K-$17K. It was the most "un-fresh" coin one could imagine at that time having been offered via fixed price list and at auction about a dozen times in 3 yrs. Interesting that even for a coin once in an NGC 66 holder, CAC won't sticker it as a 65.
The 1841 PCGS MS65 half in Hansen was a MS64 prior to around 2006. I noticed it when it first popped up on Pinnacle's inventory for around $5500 iirc (2006) and it seemed like a potential home run if it was an all there MS65, though the price seemed more indicative of a higher end 64 coin. As a 65 it was a pop 1 finest graded. I also noted that in the year proceeding that upgrade......it was probably seen multiple times at PCGS as the pop report looked very inflated at the 64 grade. My guess was that it went in 3-5 times to get the upgrade. I wonder if the pop reports were ever corrected? Probably not, as the pops back in Jan 2007 were 8 in MS64, and a total of 8 in the grades of MS62/63 combined. The pop today in MS64 is 7. So at least one submission was removed in the following 13 yrs. I bought that coin (2006?) sight unseen just on pop 1 status. Unfortunately, when I got the coin in hand it had a LOT of obverse chatter and cuts. I saw the coin as a 64+ at best....fitting the narrative of a 64+ coin that got lucky one day. So I flipped it to Heritage making a little profit. I did not want to own any lower end coins as the coin market was getting rather frothy by 2006. I think Heritage sold it close to the $8-10K range. I'm a little surprised it's a CAC coin today. But pop 1 coins have a way of "getting better" over time I guess. It's still pop 1, finest graded, almost 15 yrs later.
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Mitch, I apologized for not picking up on your amazing Kennedy set. You are penalized for not having the set updated. Shame on you. With the update, you should be listed right there with Whitlock and Acadia. Get it done so you can take your rightful spot.
As for freshness vs pedigree discussion, I pick the pedigree all day long. If I want freshness, I would buy a 2020 monster coin from Justin. That is freshness.
Enjoyed the discussion.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
“Mitch, I apologized for not picking up on your amazing Kennedy set. You are penalized for not having the set updated. Shame on you. With the update, you should be listed right there with Whitlock and Acadia. Get it done so you can take your rightful spot.”
Many (and often, most) of the coins in my modern registry sets are “homemade”. My son Justin is in charge of giving me a serial number from our submission batches for my quarter and 50C sets that never end. You reminded me that I was missing the (2) 50C as well as the near (15) P,D, S quarters from 2019. When I mentioned this to Justin, we discovered he has been “too busy” to list on eBay all the coins we got back from our screening/submission of a batch of around (500) 2019 Mint sets over 1 year ago. Talk about losing the “freshness” of our deal! 😂 Not to mention, failing to “turn the Inventory”!
On the other hand, he has been working very hard. He closed shop around 3:00 a.m. last night. No complaints.
Wondercoin
Edited to add... one of the (2) 2019 50C coins just added to my sets. Now, I am #2 in the 1964 - date (date set), #2 in the 1964-70 silver short set and #3 in the 1964-date MS set at 99% complete still missing 1 coin. If I keep producing some pop 1 homemade coins over the next (20) years of mint State Kennedy releases, I have a shot to catch Mr. Hansen by 2030! Let the games continue! Lol.
Liberty Half Dollar Upgrade
The last posting on 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar initiated a great discussion on pedigree vs non-pedigree vs freshness, etc. I appreciated everyone that participated in this discussion. Roadrunner kicked into high gear with his knowledge and experience in the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. Thank you for that. You may have some insight on this recent upgrade.
I spent some time in the last posting describing the Hansen Half Dollar Collection from Early US Coinage to the present day Kennedy half dollar. As a recap, this is what I contributed for the Seated Liberty Half Dollar series.
Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891)
This half dollar series is one of Mr. Hansen bread and butter series. Currently, DLH Collection is #1 for all-time sets in the registry, leading the #2 – Eliasberg Collection by more than 3.5 points. No other competitors to mention.
I thought I would spend just a little time digging deeper. The Liberty Seated Half Dollars Basic Set, Circulation Strikes (1839-1891) set requires 113 coins. Hansen Collection is the only active participant with a complete set. The Gettysburg Collection is completed except for the 1853-O No Arrows (only four known). That coin is the show stopper. The Southcounty Collection is completed except for 1853-O No Arrows and 1878-S (Survival Estimate Approx. 50 coins). A Fair-2 grade 1878-S PCGS specimen will set you back for about $20,000. There 30 active collections in the registry, with seven that are more that 90% complete. The Hansen Collection is the only current with GPA Weighted >60 (63.51). The Eliasberg Set is the only other with GPA Weighted 60.05. Also, they are the only two completed sets listed in the registry.
This is a tough set that is hard to tackle. There could be two or three other complete sets possible (using PCGS graded G6 and VG8 1853-O No Arrows). The Eliasberg Specimen estimated grade VG8 is not certified by PCGS and been off the market since Bowers & Merena, Inc.'s sale of the Eliasberg collection in 1997. I will close this discussion with this comment from PCGS: Start with the beautiful No Drapery half dollar of 1839 and finish with a run of popular low-mintage dates. In between you’ll encounter such major rarities as the 1853-O No Arrows, 1870-CC and 1878-S. This series began nearly a quarter of a century before the Civil War and didn’t end until 26 years after the surrender at Appomattox. Yes, more than half of the 19th century is represented in these historic coins and you’ll find that most of them are tough to find in any condition.
1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS67+, CAC Approved
This coin is the third of three PCGS POP 1/0 Seated Liberty Half Dollars that we have seen upgraded in the D.L. Hansen Collection in the last few weeks. I updated you on the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery a few weeks ago. You saw the much discussed 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar a couple days ago. I will wrap up with the 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar PCGS graded MS67+. Hansen’s PCGS POP 1/0 coin count is now 33 for the Seated Liberty Half Dollars.
The 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar is not a rare coin with PCGS estimating the survival at approx. 1000 coins. This is the only 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar graded MS67+ with four other specimens graded MS67. Jaime Hernandez provided these comments: Many Seated Liberty Half Dollars are undervalued and the 1885 is just one of them. This issue has a mintage of only 5,200 examples struck with many of them being lost, melted while others have been harshly cleaned or damaged. This date is comparable to the 1879, 1882, 1884, 1886 and 1887 all with mintages of 5,000 or less. If you can afford one in any grade, definitely try to pick one up.
This new upgrade is a head scratcher. The coin is from the “Perfection 8A” Collection that Hansen purchased about a year ago. The coin was graded MS67 and I am pretty sure tied for finest known with the other MS67s. I cannot say for certain when this coin was re-graded by PCGS. If I had to guess, I would think last fall when Mr. Hansen hosted the new branding, re-grading, and improve images event. With all the upgrades, I may have missed this one in real time. But, the coin has an interesting recent story that make me think it could be a new purchase.
The coin is listed in David Lawrence Rare Coins for Sunday 6/14/2020 Auction. Described as Finest Known! It has a five star eye appeal. The coin is described in the auction as: The finest graded for the date by both services combined. An absolutely special coin with no peers. A must for the collector who desires the best for his Registry Set. CAC approved for quality. PCGS+ grade for premium quality at the top of end of the assigned grade. Now, with all that said, the coin has been pulled, with this comment: Sorry you missed this item. It is no longer available. I find this very interesting and very hard for me to explain. If the coin was purchase by Mr. Hansen last year in a large lot, been regraded to MS67+ (Finest Known), then why was the coin in the DLRC Auction. I feel that I am missing a key piece of information here.
I cannot find this coin ever appearing in auction before Perfection. (help if you can). The unique finest graded coin is not given a value by PCGS Price Guide. If the coin had remain in the DLRC auction until conclusion, we would have a good idea of the value. A MS67 is valued at $20,000. I have to close by saying, Perfection hand-picked some great coins in his sets. I think the name is fitting. Take a close look at this coin. It is amazing.
1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS67+ (Gold Shield)
PCGS POP 1/0, CAC Approved
Certification #25058478, PCGS #6367
PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown
Provenance: Perfection
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Mmmmm...yummy!
I still wish CoinFacts would show more than the top 3.
I guess we can call that Perfection
The hardest decision I made today was whether to give your comment a like, agree or lol. I went LOL
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Want to trade lives?
I don't remember "all of it." Like everyone else, I have to (or should) go back and recheck catalogs and old listings to confirm I'm not getting anything wrong. Even had to yank out old pop reports. It's a good thing I saved a lot of that stuff. So many coins are toned similarly that you'd swear "that's the same coin" I once owned. Then you recheck photos and find out, nope, that's not the one. So that last post of mine took about 1-2 hrs of research to fact check the old noggin' which is often full of "replaced" facts. And it certainly helps if you handled the same coin or researched that date/mm at any time in your past. A lot of these same coins all appeared in the 1975-2010 period when I was paying the most attention.
I don't recognize the 1885 MS67 Hansen half. But with that toning pattern I'm sure you can find a previous auction appearance of that one between 1980 to 2015. Personally, I never got involved with pursuing the 1879-1890 low mintage Philly halves in superb gem condition. In my mind, there were plenty of choice and gem unc specimens that were saved at time of issue. Then you have the hundreds of proofs available for each date. So that's why my emphasis has always been on seated branch mints (S,O,CC) or pre-1856 Philly coins when proofs were basically non-existent. I've always liked the 1885 half as one of the tougher ones of the '79-'90 run. My real interest in those dates was to find pleasing XF-AU specimens with no PL surfaces, as the well worn business strikes are indeed very scarce, much more so than the uncs and proofs. That was quite apparent even back in 1974. But for many decades the price of proofs acted as "the ceiling" on what any circulated, post-1858 Philly seated half could bring. That ceiling is now lifted just in the past decade (or sooner).
If Hansen is looking for a good upgrade coin to their MS66, go find the 1862 NGC MS67 CAC half dollar I used to own. At that time it was only 1 of 6 total No Motto 67 halves with a CAC sticker - 4 PCGS and 2 NGC. They have most of those other original 67's in their set now. And even though PCGS would never cross my coin in the-pre 2010 era (5 attempts) it's an all there coin. Showed it to David Hall, Charlie Brown, and obviously JA and all agreed on the 67 (B coin) status. So with a little but of "Hansen Power" that's a coin that should end up as PCGS 67 CAC someday. I'm surprised it already hasn't been done. There is no better 1862 out there that I was aware of. Interesting that Hansen's 66 has the same general look as my old coin. They look to have come from the same source.
When I sold DlH the Seated years ago I had lots of dupes, one being the 1885.
It is one of the best looking a 10. At the time it did not have a plus.
DLH rarely buys direct. JB puts coins in his auctions. DLH saw it, JB did not have other bidders
so DLH purchased it. If there were bidder it would have went through the auction.
Great coin!
Seated Liberty Half Dollar Upgrade
I thought my last post was the last of the Seated Liberty Half Dollars. I previously posted three PCGS TOP POP 1/0 specimens. The first was the 1839 50C Seated, No Drapery POP 1/0 specimen a few weeks ago. Then the 1846 “Tall Date” Seated Liberty Half Dollar Pop 1/0 a few days ago. I wrapped up with the 1885 Seated Liberty Half Dollar PCGS graded MS67 PCGS POP 1/0 specimen a couple days ago. This coin is not a POP 1/0, rather a second finest POP 1/1. The coin was added to collection, but has not been upgraded in the Seated Liberty Half Dollar set, yet. I have provided a lot of details the last few days on Mr. Hansen Half Dollar Collection and even more details on the Seated Liberty Half Dollars.
The D.L. Hansen Collection of Half Dollars gained the #1 All-Time registry status in Sept 2017. At that time, the weighed GPA was 60.834. Over the last two and half years, Mr. Hansen has improved the rating to 64.280! I am not going to take time to count how many upgrades that has required, but I will say this is the fifth coin replaced in 2020. So, let’s take a look at this latest upgrade.
1867-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65
This coin was minted in San Francisco a couple years post the civil war, and a couple years before the completion on the Transcontinental Railroad. I doubt this pristine coin was used to pay any of railroad workers, but it would not be far from imaging some half dollars from the same batch may have. Ron Guth had this to say about the coin: The 1867-S Half Dollar is fairly common in most grades up to Mint State, then it becomes quite scarce up to MS63. In MS64 and better grades, the 1867-S is a true rarity. There is, however, one standout -- the PCGS MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin that sold recently (2014) for $19,975 - this coin is a full two pints above any other 1867-S Half Dollar certified by PCGS. The mintmarks on this date are all minute, though one appears larger because it has been repunched.
Well things change in time. Today, the PCGS MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is only one point better than Hansen’s #2 coin. I will added, the last viewing of Eliasberg-Gardner coin, it was still in Green Label holder, so regrading could put the coin back to two points. For you that like varieties, the new Hansen coin is listed as WB-103, Die Pair 4. This is not attributed on the label. The MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is listed as WB-101, Die Pair 1. So, from a variety perspective, both could be considered POP 1/0 specimens.
The story on this coin is the appearances in the past 6-7 months. I guess there could be several reasons that Mr. Hansen did not purchase the coin in previous opportunities. Maybe, he is holding out for the Eliasberg-Gardner and is now seeing that may not happen. Maybe being the coin is not CAC. There may be other reasons, but it appear he passed on the coin at least four times (maybe five), and maybe one of those opportunities was a David Lawrence Rare Coin offer. Let’s look at the opportunities.
2019 September 5 - 8 Long Beach Expo US Coins Signature Auction - Long Beach #1299
The coin made a first appearance in the Heritage Long Beach auction when described as 1867-S/S Half Dollar, MS65, Repunched Mintmark, Condition Rarity. The auction description: The mintmark is slightly recut and centered under the stem and fletchings. Faint cracks appear under (UNIT)ED and through the arrowheads. The dies were heavily polished, explaining incomplete detail in certain areas like UST in TRUST. However, most of this Gem is razor-sharp, including Liberty's head, foot, and the eagle. Frosty, brilliant centers are surrounded by golden-brown, violet, crimson, and blue toning around the borders. The coin was pedigreed to be from Cody Brady Collection. This is only provenance for the coin that I could find. The coin realized $11,400.
2020 January 8 - 12 FUN US Coins Signature Auction - Orlando #1311
Same coin, but this time is in a PCGS MS65 holder. The coin was described as 1867-S/S Half Dollar, MS65, WB-103, A Rarity in This Grade. The auction description was a little different: Repunching on the mintmark is faint due to the die state of this piece, which shows metal flowlines in the fields The clash marks described by Bill Bugert are not yet visible on the obverse, although the reverse shows clashing within the shield, in the usual place. This golden-toned Gem has freckles of russet around the borders, and the strike is strong for the variety, save for weakness on the upper obverse stars. As a date, the 1867-S half dollar is scarce in any Mint State grade, and it is a major rarity at the Gem level. Only one finer coin is reported, an MS66 PCGS example. You would think in a PCGS holder the coin could fetch a little more, wrong. The coin realized $ 9,300. The coin lost a little more than $2K is value and the pedigree was dropped.
National Coin Wholesalers
In mid-March 2020 timeframe, the coin appears for sale on the NCW website, located in Hallandale Beach, FL. The coin was described only as: 1867-S 50C, MS PCGS Secure 65 PCGS. The asked price was $11,030. I do not know the results from this listing.
David Lawrence Rare Coins
In mid-April 2020 timeframe, the coin appears for sale on eBay listing DLRC as the seller. The coin was described only as: 1867-S 50c PCGS MS65 - Liberty Seated Half Dollar - Scarce S-Mint. The listing had this additional comment: Lustrous gem! Light golden toned centers surrounded by scattered russet and indigo tints. Sharply struck throughout with faint repunching of the mint mark due to the later die state. Only one example graded finer at PCGS! The asked price was $14,300, with Make an Offer opportunity. Again, I do not know the results from this listing, but if Mr. Hansen had any interest in buying the coin, you would think this would be the time.
Park Avenue Numismatics
This brings us the mid-May, about a month ago. This time the coin appears for sale on the PAN website. The coin was described only as: 50C 1867-S US Liberty Seated Half Dollar PCGS MS65. The asked price was $ 10,900, with Make an Offer opportunity.
The coin showed up in Mr. Hansen collection yesterday. I month has passed since the Park Avenue Numismatics listing, so I am not confident that is where Mr. Hansen purchased the coin. PCGS Price Guide has not placed a value on this coin. The MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner coin is valued at $27,500. It took a long time, and changed many hands before this Cody Brady specimen was purchased by Mr. Hansen. Now, let’s watch and see if the MS66 Eliasberg-Gardner specimen comes on the market and if Mr. Hansen is interested. If not, I think this MS65 works well in his #1 Seated Liberty Half Dollars Collection.
1867-S Seated Liberty Half Dollar, MS65
WB-103, Die Pair 4, PCGS POP 1/1, (Gold Shield)
Certification #38342435, PCGS #6322
PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown
Provenance: Cody Brady Collection
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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Thanks for clearing that up. Selling a duplicate is the only thing that makes sense. I guessing he now has two 1885 Perfection Specimens. Maybe he will keep both. You have been away for awhile. Welcome back. Any addition that you can make to the discussion here is welcome.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
One Dollar Gold Update
I have to be honest and say that I have not posted that much on the One Dollar Gold Collection. These coins have a little following, but not that much. The D.L. Hansen Collection has the only active participant on All-Time Top Five List. That tells a lot there. The basic set requires 76 of the little princesses. It is not that easy of a task. This is the comments by PCGS: This long-lived series is composed of three different types and includes rarities from such romantic Mints as Dahlonega, Charlotte, and New Orleans as well as San Francisco and Philadelphia. These small coins are rich in history, and many issues were minted in extremely small quantities. Some of the low-mintage dates were hoarded in Gem condition, most notably those of 1879-89, while others are unknown in Mint State 65 or better. This is another series that is filled with rarities, but it makes a magnificent set when completed.
As stated by PCGS, this is a magnificent set when completed. Presently, Mr. Hansen has the only magnificent set in the registry. The top five All -Time is a who’s who in numismatic history. By registry grades, Mr. Hansen Collection rates slightly higher that Harry Bass. I think it is safe to say that Mr. Hansen’s Set of One Dollar Gold is comparable to Bass, and superior to Louis Eliasberg. I would think the reason that the National Numismatic Collection shows less than 100% may be that some of the latter and common dates were only obtained in proof examples. Lastly, the J.S.Morgan Collection is 100% complete (registry error) but the grade average is just slightly >MS50. This set was retired in 2014.
1880 One Dollar Gold, MS68+
This coin could be looked at as a common date One Dollar Gold. The PCGS estimated survival is approx. 1000 coins. Out of the 1000, approx. 650 coins are probable MS65 or Better. So, you can see the date is pretty common even in GEM condition. Expert David Akers provided these comments: A very popular date with a low mintage of only 1,636 pieces. However, this date was rather extensively hoarded and, as a result, it is one of the most common Type III gold dollars in Unc. Many superb quality specimens exist, and actually any specimen short of choice Unc, is very unusual.
The MS68+ Hansen Specimen is a PCGS POP 3/1. There are 27 that PCGS graded MS68, so you can see we are getting more common. There is only one graded MS69 from the David & Sharron Akers Collection. The coin sold in a Heritage 2014 Auction for $52,875. One of the three MS68+ specimens is the Kutz - Duckor coin that was recently in the “Type Set” Collection. I am not sure the location of the third specimen.
I cannot confirm where Mr. Hansen purchased the coin. The coin was available in mid-May on Park Avenue Numismatics Website. The coin was offered for $24,300. The coin appeared in two recent Heritage’s Auctions. The coin first appeared in December 2019 US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. The coin realized $24,000. The coin was described as: The low mintage of the 1880 gold dollar is not its only draw for collectors. It also has a high survival rate in Uncirculated grades, even in MS68. The two services combined have certified a total of 54 pieces in this grade, and each company has also graded a single example MS69. This availability in Gem (and finer) condition makes the 1880 gold dollar available for only a slight premium over a type coin price, a terrific deal for the collector who can then combine high grade with a remarkably low mintage. This is an exceptional piece that qualifies for "wonder coin" status. Each side displays bright mint frost as well as semireflective fields. Deep, even reddish-orange color covers both obverse and reverse, and the strike details are complete.
The coin appeared most recently in Heritage’s April 2020 Central States US Coins Signature Auction in Dallas. In this auction, the coin only realized $21,000 (dropped $3K in a few months). COVID? This appears to be another coin that Mr. Hansen rescued from the crazy market. This is very nice low POP, CAC coin. It is a great addition the D.L. Hansen’s One Dollar Gold Collection.
1880 One Dollar Gold MS68+, CAC Approved
Remarkable Surface Preservation
Certification #38460706, PCGS #7581, POP 3/1
PCGS Price Guide Value: Unknown
Provenance: Unknown
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
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Carson City Quarter Dollar Update
I covered several great pieces that Mr. Hansen purchased in The D. Brent Pogue Collection Part VII: Masterpieces of United States Coinage in March. This is one that did not bubble to the top of my list with the 1904-O Barber Half Dollar MS67, PCGS POP 2/0; 1870-S Liberty Head Quarter Eagle, MS-64, POP 1/0; 1866-S Half Dime MS67 PCGS, POP 1/0; 1863 Liberty Seated Dollar MS67 PCGS, POP 1/0 and the $2M 1854-S Half Eagle. This coin is one of many purchases that Mr. Hansen made in Pogue sale that I did not report. I think he hit the Pogue well pretty hard on that quarantine night in March.
I rediscovered this upgrade when the nine coin Carson City Quarters, Circulation Strikes (1870-1878) set was modified this week. I don’t recall looking at this set with any detail before now. This little set really demonstrates the hundreds of mini-sets in Mr. Hansen’s mega-collection. This little set is described by PCGS as: Of all the U.S. branch mints, none is more revered or steeped in the romance of the 19th century than the mint at Carson City, Nevada. This nine piece set contains one from each issue from 1870 through 1878. Although none were struck in 1874, two were struck in 1873. One with, and the other without arrows at the date. The latter is one of the great rarities in U.S. numismatics. With an estimated 5 or 6 pieces known, you'll be spending six figures on this one if you can ever find one.
This would be a cool and fun little set to try to assemble. The ultra-rare 1873 without arrows makes the set impossible for most of us to even dream about completing. That may be the reason there are not that many current collectors. Presently, the Hansen Collection’s GPA for this set is 60.44. The set can jump to about 65 with the replacement of just two coins, 1870-CC and 1873-CC with Arrows.
The set has a really nice condition census 1873-CC with No Arrows in PCGS MS64. The CAC Approved coin carries the provenance from notable Haseltine-F. F. Boyd-Norweb- Green - Battleborn Collections. This coin alone is valued at $475,000.
The 1873-CC with Arrows is a condition census (POP 2/2) AU55 graded coin. For this coin, one specimen that could substantially improve this collection is the MS64 PCGS Eliasberg example. According to CoinFacts, this coin is tucked away in Tom Bender’s PCGS Registry Set. The top dog for the 1873-CC with Arrows PCGS coin is a MS65 Specimen that has provenance to the Norweb & Stellar Collections. This $200K coin would make a nice addition, so if you own it contact JB.
Secondly, the 1870-CC XF40 really needs replacing. Even in this circulating condition, there are only five PCGS higher graded coins. Two of them are circulating XF45 and three are AUs (50, 53, and 55). There is no 1870-CC Quarter Dollars graded AU55+ or better by PCGS. “THE COIN” is the MS63 estimated grade Eliasberg Specimen. The coin has a 100+ year provenance that includes William B. Wetmore, the Chapmans and the Clapps. According to CoinFacts, the coin has not surfaced in a public sale since the Eliasberg sale in 1997. It would be really cool to see this coin resurfacing in the D. L. Hansen Collection.
1878-CC Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar, MS66+
The year 1878 was the last year the quarter dollar was produced in Carson City. The description in the Pogue Sale provided a pretty good historic synopsis: 1878 proved to be the final year the Carson City Mint struck quarters as it increasingly directed its focus towards silver dollars. A total of 996,000 quarters were struck there, roughly one-fourth the annual production in the previous couple of years. This may have proven too generous for the Treasury's needs, as there is some thought that many were not released for use but were rather destroyed to meet a legally mandated limit of $50 million in circulating coins and fractional currency. Three obverse and reverse dies matched in four pairings have been identified, including one with a long thin die gouge running through Liberty, that accounts for nearly a third of the examples. Most coins originating from Carson City entered commerce and remained mostly in the West where they served a community distrustful of paper money. Fortunately, many Mint State examples were preserved, though because of the weak striking, most are at the lower end. Gems are quite rare and are eagerly pursued by advanced quarter collectors as well as Carson City Mint aficionados. With its astonishingly beautiful toning and its superlative level of preservation, it is difficult to imagine a superior example than the present coin.
The coin is discussed in a PCGS description by our very own expert Ron Guth: The 1878-CC was the last Quarter Dollar produced at the Carson City Mint. It is not a rare coin, but the demand for the CC-mintmark has boosted this date's popularity, especially in high grade. Most 1878-CC Quarter Dollars are well-struck and feature a frosty luster. One interesting variety shows a raised die line running diagonally upwards from Liberty's left knee (viewer's right) across her belly to just above the elbow of her right arm (viewer's left). Collectors should have no trouble locating Mint State examples in grades up to and including MS64. Gem examples are scarce, but mostly expensive. The finest example is the colorful PCGS MS67. There is now two MS67 specimens. The Pogue-Hansen coin has a little color too. The Stacks Bowers Auction described the coin as: A bold blend of blue-gray, salmon pink and champagne-apricot blankets the obverse, while the reverse displays rose-apricot, antique gold and powder blue. Sharply struck with full, frosty mint luster, this is an exceptionally well preserved and attractive survivor of the challenging Carson City Mint quarter series.
The coin realized $12,000 dollars in Stacks Bowers Auction of the D. Brent Pogue Collection Part VII: Masterpieces of United States Coinage in March. PCGS valued this coin at $12,000, so it appear Mr. Hansen was able to obtain this CAC Approved coin without a premium. This is a very nice addition to Mr. Hansen’s mega-collection and to this little nine coin Carson City set. Now, if he obtain the 1873-CC with Arrows Ex: Norweb -Stellar , and the 1870-CC Eliasberg Specimen, this amazing set will become unimaginable.
Stunning Gem 1878-CC Seated Liberty Quarter Dollar, MS66+ (Gold Shield)
PCGS POP 2/2, CAC Approved
Certification #38634053, PCGS #5509
PCGS Price Guide Value: $12,000 / Realized $12,000
Provenance: From the D. Brent Pogue Collection. Earlier from Heritage's CSNS Signature Auction of April 2013, lot 4215.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
The Eliasberg 70-CC 25c was in the Stellar collection and I believe recently sold (along with the rest of the Stellar early-CC 25s) through Chris Napolitano. Stellar was the name for this collection when it was on the NGC registry long ago. Don't recall what/if name Napolitano marketed it under.