@Currin said: "In week number three update, we are comparing four small cents. I hope this to be a fun game. In my first week posting, I described this challenge as “an interesting experiment”. Insider2 reminded us that it is hard to compare collections a half century apart. He described as a “fanciful exercise”. I agree, but I hope everyone have fun watching the progression of this game."
It's a shame when we compare two coins from any different collections that we don't know the month and year when each coin was graded. It might be like Hanson 1909-S VDB MS-67 Red(2014)/Eliasberg 1909-S VDB MS-66 RB (1998). That's because the grading standards have changed over the years.
Here is a story you all can laugh at. The Hanson 1909-S VDB would be a perfect example of the AU-58 grade in the 1970's at the first TPGS at INSAB. Back then we sent a full red 55 DDO 1c out as an AU-58. We also sent a letter back with the coin saying that we had to grade the coin AU because of the trace of wear on the head. Then we advised him that his coin was the best example we had ever seen, that whatever he paid it was worth the price; that the dealer did nothing wrong calling the coin a Choice Unc (65); and that he should not bother to try and find a better example. I've told my students that if the coin remained in the same condition today it would probably grade MS-67 or MS-68. It turns out I've been pretty close with my long-held prediction.
True technical grading during the period of "no trace of wear" was pretty tough; yet that coin would never be graded MS one time and AU the next due to the loss of luster (for whatever the reason) on the ear, cheekbone, and beard. That's what made that grading system so precise and why grades did not change over time or due to the condition of the coin business.
I guess you could say this is a rare coin for mint state. It appear no specimens exist in Gem grades and one unconfirmed in Choice grade. Hansen is replacing a nice AU58 coin. The 1881-O Liberty Head Eagle does not have any Earth shaking records. The auction record for the coin is $17,250 that was realized in a 2011 Hertiage auction at Long Beach. The record specimen is the Ex. Eliasberg specimen NGC MS61. It appear that even though there is a better coin in the NGC POP report (MS63), there is not much evidence that it exist. The Hertiage auctioneer wrote this comment: The NGC Census Report lists a single coin finer, an MS63, but Doug Winter's Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint openly questions such a coin's existence, going so far as to ask whether it is a "data entry error."
Doug Winter: The 1881-O is the scarcest of the three low mintage New Orleans eagles produced between 1880 and 1882. It is about twice as available today as it was a decade ago, due to the discovery of some relatively large groups of coins in the early part of the 1990’s. Most of these were in the VF-EF range and this date remains very scarce in higher grades. The 1881-O is an underappreciated, low mintage issue that is generally seen in EF40 to AU50 grades. It becomes very scarce in properly graded AU55 and is rare in AU58. In full Mint State, the 1881-O eagle is very rare and extremely undervalued. There are probably fewer than a half dozen known and I have never personally seen one better than MS61.
**1881-O $ Liberty Head Eagle MS61 CAC Cert# 36607437 PCGS POP 2/0
Replaces 1881-O AU58 12/7**
This replacement eagle is tied for this finest known PCGS, with one other MS61. The NGC MS61 Eliasberg may be the 3rd tie. This date and mint can not be easlity found. This may the best 1881-O specimen that Hansen will ever be able to acquire. The coin was obtained privately, and there are no records and the provenance can not be traced.
PCGS Coin Value places the value of this coin at $21,500. It appear the coin was purchased privately. I have not been successful in finding any addition information on the purchase. The coin is a nice addition to the collection.
The Hansen coin is graded PCGS MS61, and Eliasberg specimen is graded NGC MS61. Coin Facts does not list the Eliasberg in its condition consus report. For now, let’s just leave the Hansen and Eliasberg tied for the 1881-O Eagle.
Even I have to be nice to Delloy, he called me and wished me a Merry Xmas. He and I and like oil and water-and he knows it. I guess opposites do attract...
It appear DLH purchased one of JRCSLM32 half dime sets, Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805). This is a 15 coin set, and from the purchased, Hansen replaced 11 coins in his set. Of the 11 replaced, five were PCGS POP 1/0. The big news is that with the set, he purchased a 1802 half dime. This is a count down coin. The 1802 coin is ex. Simpson. I will post a count down update on Monday. It appears DLH/JB is finishing the year strong.
@Currin said:
It appear DLH purchased one of JRCSLM32 half dime sets, Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805). This is a 15 coin set, and from the purchased, Hansen replaced 11 coins in his set. Of the 11 replaced, five were PCGS POP 1/0. The big news is that with the set, he purchased a 1802 half dime. This is a count down coin. The 1802 coin is ex. Simpson. I will post a count down update on Monday. It appears DLH/JB is finishing the year strong.
Good work! It just got posted this afternoon...yes, we purchased 12 of the coins from the set and they are quite amazing. We started working on this collection in July, but we finally got it done in December! We're excited to add the 1802 and the rest of the coins are marvelous as well. Each piece has a PCGS TrueView as well, so you can see the quality!
John Brush President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com email: John@davidlawrence.com 2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
@yosclimber said:
The 1796 LM-1 MS-67+ is a dazzler, as are some of the other pop 1/0 bust half dimes from that top registry set.
I agree, the 1796 LIKERTY is a big catch of the group. According to the PCGS Price Guide, it is twice the value of the 1802. First glance I place the value on the 1802. The price guide list the total value of the 11 upgrades and the new 1802 at $1,673,500. According to JB, the negotiations last six months. Very nice outcome.
"Focus relative to wealth" is what every collector should strive for. With each purchase, Delloy makes me reevaluate my own collecting strategy. I'm a collector only, and not a dealer. This is a side benefit of his impact to the hobby that most people are not considering. He's a game changer. (I don't collect at his level but it is all relative)
On the morning after the battle of the Monitor and the Merrimack, when there was an argument that there was no clear victor between the two, the verdict was that all other navies were rendered useless. I see Hansen v. Eliasberg the same way.
Currin - When you post Gazes small Cent challenge comparing Hansen’s small cent challenge
to Eliasberg’s small cents, it’s comparing apples to pineapples.
IMO if you want to compare coins which both collectors collected primarily and almost totally
In the 19th century. Compare:
Barber dimes,quarters and half dollars both mint state and proof
Seated dimes, quarters and half dollars both proof and mint state
Half Cents
Large Cents
Two Cents
Three Cent Silvers
Gold coins
Liberty Eagles
Liberty Double Eagles
Most seasoned collectors consider the Eliasberg Coin collection the greatest collection ever assembled. The breadth of the Hanson collection is by far greater than the Eliasberg collection.
I hope you agree with me in comparing apples to apples
In week number four update, we are starting our silver series. I hope you have enjoyed this challenge so far. This is intended to be fun, so I hope to keep it that way. The rule of the game is to compare grades for a predetermined group of coins in Hansen’s Registry set with the Eliasberg’s. I understand this may not be complete and comprehensive comparison, but it is simple. If I find any additional information that could change the results, I may at times break the rule, as I did on this update.
The two coins being compared this week is the 1792 and 1802 Half Dimes. Hansen has the better 1792 Half Diime by two grade points. Hansen did an upgrade this week and added the 1802. He got the new coin just under the wire. Before this update, it appeared Eliasberg would get at least one point by default. Eliasberg will still get a point for the 1802.
I am going to break my rule of the 1802. By registry grading, Hansen has the better coin, PCGS VF45 vs. Eliasberg estimated grade VF40. I asked for a second opinion from someone that has study these coins. Breen graded both of them VF-EF. I'd say they are roughly equal. The Eliasberg specimen has been certified AU53 by PCGS. The coin was sold in 2017 in a Heritage auction. Being I have knowledge of this info, I will break the rule and declare Eliasberg winner of the 1802.
This week ended in tie 1/1. Next week could be interesting with 4 coins in the challenge.
Half Dimes
1792 Half Disme: First regular issue U.S. coin; association with George Washington.
Hansen Coin: 1792 Half Dimse MS66 (PCGS POP 3/2, overall: 3/3)
Eliasberg Coin: 1792 Half Dimse MS64 (PCGS POP 8/5, overall: 8/6)
Winning Coin:
Hansen 1792 Half Disme - PCGS MS66
1802 Half Dime: Rarest half dime; important U.S. rarity. (Note: considered collectable)
Hansen Coin: 1802 Half Dime PCGS XF45 (PCGS POP 1/3, overall 1/4)
Eliasberg Coin: 1802 Half Dime – Estimated XF40 (currently PCGS AU 53 PCGS POP 1/2)
Next week: Dimes
1796 Dime: First year of issue.
1838-O Dime: First mintmarked issue of this denomination.
1916-D Mercury Dime: Rarest and best known coin of this design.
1942/1-P Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series.
1942/1-D Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series
Note: Winner of the 1942/1 will be best of the 4
@specialist said:
Even I have to be nice to Delloy, he called me and wished me a Merry Xmas. He and I and like oil and water-and he knows it. I guess opposites do attract...
I called you on Christmas and they put me on hold. Then hung up. LOL. Only kidding!
HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. Hope to see some of you at FUN.
It is fitting for the last update of the year to be a countdown coin. We have seen some really great additions to the collection, and this one should be near the top. Only 24 coins to go before DLH can accomplish his quest. According to my observation, he started 2018 needing about 80 coins to complete the Eliasberg Classic set. He will start 2019 needing only 24. I will not make any New Year predictions, but getting the number down to 10-12 by the end of 2019 would be a significant accomplishment. It is great to see him finishing the year strong. With the upcoming FUN auctions in January, he will have the opportunity to start 2019 just as strong.
In considering collectable coins, this is the last silver coin that Hansen required. It does complete PCGS U.S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes for non-gold. Hansen still has a few more gold coins to go. There are still several more silver coins needed to complete the Eliasberg Quest. You may review the list below to see those coins. PCGS do not include many of them in their complete registry sets due to I believe collectability. For simplicity, I wish PCGS would be more consistent and include all coins.
Historically, the last silver coin that Hansen needed to complete the U.S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes set was the 1802 Half Dime. This is not an easy coin to obtain is quality condition. It is said that all known samples have problems, some less than others. Ron Guth wrote this on the 1802 Half Dimes: The 1802 Half Dime is one of the classic rarities in United States coins thanks to a small mintage and a low survival rate. Breen (1988) claims the date was first "recorded" in 1863, when three examples were known, but according to David Davis, the first auction appearance of an 1802 Half Dime was in Edward Cogan's December 1859 sale. In 1883, Harold P. Newlin enumerated 16 examples, but according to Logan & McCloskey (1998, p. 9), he overlooked at least a few auction appearances. In 1935, James MacAllister claimed to know of 35 examples (Breen, p. 279). The definitive listing of 1802 Half Dimes appears in Logan & McCloskey (pp. 9-38), where David J. Davis chronicled 167 sales and appearances over a 140 year time period. By combining duplicate appearances and matching against Newlin's and Breen's lists, Davis confirmed a population of 35 examples. The majority of the known examples are in low grade. The finest example known is the About Uncirculated Garrett example, though there are some close competitors. No true Uncirculated examples are known.
As stated, Breen did research on the 1802 Half Dime. There are about nine specimens that are in really good collectable condition. I would say that Hansen’s coin falls in the middle of the list. There were three specimens that ranks as EF/VF+, the Hansen Specimen, the Pittman Specimen, and the Eliasberg Specimen. He ranked the Garrett as finest, Valentine (Pogue) as second, and Atwater as third.
1802 Half Dime XF45 Cert 29582773 PCGS POP 1/4
As stated, there are may be three of four other specimens that in better condition than the Hansen Specimen. His Coin is the Ex: Simpson Specimen. This coin has not sold in auction in some time. The coin appeared in Pre-ANA Vintage Sale in 1989, but it did not sale. The last auction where it was sold was the New England Rare Coin Auction in 1978 where the coin realized $16,500. The latest documented owners are Larry Hanks, Jay Parrino, Bob Simpson, and now the Hansen Collection. Some other famous owners in the pedigree are Dr. Angus Black and Reed Hawn.
This Condition Census coin is a great addition to the set. Being the coin has appeared in limited public sales and auctions, there are not many profession descriptions for this coin. The coin is very appealing and has nice original toning. I did find a description of the coin’s marking from YOSCLIMBER’s Stanford Educational Website:
1. horizontal scratch midway between date and neck curl
2. diagonal scratch from neck curl to base of chin
3. small nick in center of shield (4th stripe)
4. scratches or adjustment marks between ES and stars
5. nose, under chin, right stars machine doubled, same as Valentine & Atwater
6. pale golden (or gun metal / rose) luster
The coin was purchase in a 12 coin group from the collection of JRCSLM32 set: Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805). This is a 15 coin set, and from the purchased, Hansen replaced 11 coins in his set. Of the 11 replaced, five were PCGS POP 1/0. The 1802 was included in the set purchased. We do not know the price paid for the grouping, but according to JB, the negotiations lasted six months. The PCGS price guide list the total value of the 11 upgrades and the new 1802 at $1,673,500.
According to PCGS graders, The Eliasberg Specimen is a better condition coin than Hansen’s. By registry grading, Hansen’s coin is PCGS VF45 vs. Eliasberg PCGS AU53. Breen considered them to be about equal.
1802 Draped Bust Half Dime XF45 (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #4268 / PCGS Serial #29582773 / POP 1/4
Ex: George Hale, 1945 - Dr. Angus Black, 1970 - Reed Hawn, 1973 - Newport Collection, 1975 - Bibler - private collection - Norman Pullen - Larry Hanks - East Coast Collection - Vintage Auctions 8/1989:103 - Bob R. Simpson Collection
There are 24 remaining coins in the Eliasberg Quest. The 14 coins that are not listed in “complete registry set” are Bold below. Note: DLH was a partner in the purchase of the 1854-S Half Eagle being that he's a partner with DLRC, but after purchasing the coin, DLHC reported the specimen was sold to an undisclosed client.
Top 10 1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection) 1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection) 1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA) 1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection) 1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue AU58+; 2- XF45 sold July 2018)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased) 1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned) 1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5)
Next 10 1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8) 1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9) 1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13) 1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival for regular strikes 12, proofs 4)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20)
1819 Half Eagle (Survival for “No Variety” 7, for “5D/50” 17) 1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
1796 “Stars" Quarter Eagle (Survival 40)
Last 4 1839 Gobrecht Dollar Proof Only (Survival 60-75)
1840-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 65)
1854-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
FIRST 2019 POSTING - A group of "Famous" Draped Bust Half Dimes
This posting consist of five PCGS graded POP 1/0 Draped Bust Half Dimes. These coins were purchased from the collection of JRCSLM32: Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805) set. Hansen purchased 12 coins in this grouping, the 1802, these 5 PCGS POP 1/0, and six others. These are undisputed the finest known specimens, with three from the World Class D. Brent Pogue Collection, one from the Famous Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection, and the last from the Great Bob R. Simpson Collection. Is Hansen trying to make a statement on the quality that is being sought?
I believe this 1796 “LM-1 LIKERTY” MS67+ is the finest Draped Bust “Small Eagle” Half Dime known to exist for the type. The finest Draped Bust Half Dime is believed to be the 1800 Norweb /Pogue PCGS MS68 that is tightly tucked away in the unpublished High Desert Collection, that coin is a Draped Bust “Large Eagle” Half Dime. Hansen has not updated his type set yet. I do believe that when he does, his 1796 will be top pop (1/0) for “Draped Bust Half Dime, Small Eagle (1796-1797)”. I would not count the Hansen Collection out for an type run yet.
Ex: Texas Collection - Christies 5/1989:98, $198,000 - Knoxville Collection - Jay Parrino (The Mint) - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015:1005, $411,250
1796/5 Draped Bust Half Dime MS66 (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #38595 (Variety of: #4255) / PCGS Serial #10855119 / POP 1/0 PCGS Price Guide: $225,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage FUN 1/2008: $345,000
Ex: Lorin G. Parmelee Collection - New York Coin & Stamp 6/1890:728, $8.50 - “Clay” (per S.H. Chapman’s priced/named catalog on the Newman Numismatic Portal) - T. Harrison Garrett Collection - Robert Garrett Collection - John Work Garrett Collection - Johns Hopkins University Collection - Bowers & Ruddy 11/1979:229 (misattributed as a V-1), $60,000 - Dr. Herb Ketterman Collection - James A. "Jimmy" Hayes Collection - Stack’s 10/1985:5 - John Whitney Walter Collection - Stack's 5/1999:1761, $71,875 - Essex Palm Collection - Heritage 1/2007:842, $172,500 - Madison Collection - Heritage 1/2008:2743, $345,000 - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers & Sotheby’s 5/2015:1007, $188,000
Ex: Jay Parrino (The Mint), sold privately in 3/1994 - Foxfire Collection (Claude E. Davis., MD), sold as an entire collection on 10/5/2004 - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015
1803 “Large 8” Draped Bust Half Dime MS65+ (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #4269 / PCGS Serial #06641801 / POP 1/0 PCGS Price Guide: $200,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage ANA 8/2014: $ 170,375
Ex: Harlan P. Smith Sale (S.H. and H. Chapman, 5/1906); J.M. Clapp; Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1996), lot 905, which realized $53,900. From The Collection of Oliver Jung.
Ex: Neil Collection - B. Max Mehl 6/1947:1520 - Harold S. Bareford Collection - Stack's 10/1981:36 - Stack's, sold privately in 8/1985 - Stack's 1/2002:1104, $7,762.50 - Bob R. Simpson Collection
When I think of these coins I think of the time during the old Wild West. I can picture James West with a pocket full of these. Being these are the “best minted and preserved dollars” for 1842 and 1843, more than likely never saw the inside of a pocket, much less a saloon. Hansen continues to add to his proof quest. These are two really great additions to that quest. I don’t know for sure, maybe a dollar expert such as TDN can straighten me out, but I believe Amon Carter maybe the only collector that has assembled a complete set in this series. He is credited with a run from 1840 to 1873. He did not have 1836 or 1839. During his era, the 1836-39 Gobrecht dollars may not have been considered as belonging in the Proof Liberty Seated Dollars Basic Set. This is mention in his bio: Amon was a devoted numismatist whose interests ran all the way from United States gold, silver and copper coins including territorial coins to world coins and U.S. and world currency. After Amon’s death, his entire collection was auctioned by Stack’s. At the time, his collection contained the finest and most complete collection of U.S. silver dollars ever to be auctioned.
According to Eliasberg’s registry, he was missing 7 proof dollars, including both the 1842 and 1843. In more recent times, The Southern Seated Dollar Collection was sold in 2008 that was described as an assembly of 31 different proof Seated dollars including many rarities and ultra-low mintage issues. The present registry set requires 36 coins, so it was a very good effort. In 2011, Pinnacle Rarities purchased the San Diego Collection of Proof Seated Dollars featuring 14 of the 16 possible dates from 1858 to 1873. No mention of the early dates 1836 – 1857. It does not appear this to be a popular series for the advance early proof collections. I hope TDN would be able to share his thoughts on why.
For all the auctions and references that are mention in the update, these coins were in NGC holders. Sometime since the last public auctions, they have been successfully crossed over to PCGS. They were crossed maintaining the same grade. In CoinFacts, the 1843 is listed #4 as PR63 estimated grade (NGC MS64). When CFs update, this coin should be elevated to the top, ahead of the three PCGS PR63s that were previously tied for the number one spot. Likewise, the 1842 is already in the top spot as PCGS PR65.
The 1842 was recent offer for sale by Rare Coin Wholesalers. The price offered was $136,000. This is considerable more that PCGS Value Guide of $85,000. I did not discover any additional information on the 1843.
1842 Hansen – Norweb - Kaufman Dollar, Glittering Gem Proof - Considered the Finest Known
The 1842 Proof dollar is very rare. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around eight. I have listed seven of them. I don’t have the Amon Carter specimen listed, so that could be the eighth. I do know he owned one. Ron Guth description: Proof 1842 Silver Dollars are very rare, with probably less than a dozen known. PCGS has certified only three examples, which is one of the smallest populations of any Seated Liberty Dollars in Proof. Those certified by PCGS include single examples at PR65, PR64, and PR62. NGC has also certified a number of Proof 1842 Seated Dollars, but it is unclear if there are any resubmissions of duplications in their listings. No Cameo Proof 1842 Seated Dollars are known at present, though it is possible that some might exist.
This is a fantastic coin. Heritage description: The Greensboro coin is a glittering Gem with superb golden-tan patina imbued with blushes of sky-blue, lilac, russet, and purple. Mirrored fields offer moderate contrast with the motifs at all angles of observation, but mostly when the coin is rotated just slightly beneath a light source. A solid strike brings out sharp definition on the design elements, leaving no areas with even the slightest hint of weakness. A couple of minute milling marks to the left of the upper left (facing) shoulder of Liberty, along with a tick concealed in the hair at the top right of Liberty's head, may help identify the piece for future catalogers.
Known Specimens from the Heritage catalog: 1. PR65 NGC. The Hansen – Norweb - Kaufman Specimen.The Greensboro specimen. The Norweb Collection (Bowers and Merena, 11/1988), lot 3780; Phil Kaufman Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2382. 2. PR63 NGC. Dr. John L. Pellegrini (Heritage ANA Sale, 7/2005), lot 10258; FUN Sale (Heritage, 1/2007), lot 1059. 3. PR62 PCGS. The Pitman Specimen Lester Merkin (10/1969), lot 376; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1673; Morris Silverman (Heritage, 4/2002), lot 4072; Rarities Sale (Bowers and Merena, 5/2004), lot 253; 2006 ANA (Bowers and Merena, 8/2006), lot 2345. 4. PR61 NGC. Richmond Collection, Part III (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1507. 5. PR58. Superior (9/2002), lot 1067. 6. Proof. Smithsonian Institution. 7. Proof. American Numismatic Society.
1842 Proof Liberty Dollars PR65 (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #6983 / PCGS Serial #36659765 / POP 1/0 PCGS Price Guide: $85,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage CSNS 4/2008: $86,250
Ex: The Norweb Collection (Bowers and Merena, 11/1988), lot 3780; Phil Kaufman Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2382 - The Greensboro Collection
The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman 1843 Seated Dollar PR64, Finest Certified PCGS
The 1843 Proof dollar is not a GEM, but may be the finest. There are three specimens very close in grade, The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman Specimen, The Starr – Qualler Specimen, and The Pellegrini Specimen. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around twelve. I have listed the known census condition specimens. Ron Guth offered this information: Like the 1842 and 1844 Proof Dollars, the 1843 is extremely rare. We estimate that perhaps a dozen were struck, but only six have been positively identified as separate examples. Most are brilliant Proofs, though one example has been certified as a Cameo Proof (PCGS PR63CAM). It is doubtful if even a single Deep Cameo was struck, as none are known today. The finest example is a single NGC PR64, which also happens to hold the highest auction price realized for the date. All in all, the 1843 Dollar appears to be one of the best values among classic American Proof coins.
During the cataloging this specimen for the Kaufman Collection, it was described as: A mélange of violet, sky-blue, reddish-gold, and golden-orange patination adorns both sides of this near-Gem proof, being somewhat softer in hue in the fields. The toning does not completely mask the mirrors of the latter, hence a degree of contrast with the motifs is evident when the coin is tilted slightly beneath a light source. A solid strike lends exceptional detail to the design elements, including complete separation of Liberty's foot, sandal, and straps, and bold ribbing on the reverse leaves and arrow heads. A minute mark to the right of star 9 aids in identifying the coin. A Heritage description added: We would add little to the description, above except to point out that such a coin is seldom available, and it is much rarer than recent appearances might lead one to believe. Once it finds a permanent place in some fine cabinet, it might be decades before it appears again in the marketplace.
Known Specimens from the heritage catalog: 1. PR64 PCGS. The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman Specimen. Judge Joseph F. Sawicki (May 10, 1948); John Jay Pittman Collection (David Akers, 10/1997), lot 832 (part of an 1843 proof set); Phil Kaufman (Heritage, 7-8/2008), lot 1810. 2. PR64 NGC. Dr. John L. Pellegrini Collection (Heritage, 7/2005), lot 10259; Heritage (1/2007), lot 1060. 3. PR64 NGC. The Starr – Qualler Specimen Frederic W. Geiss Collection (B. Max Mehl, 2/1947), lot 337; Floyd T. Starr Collection (Stack's, 10/1992), lot 583; David Queller Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2140. 4. PR63 NGC. The Carter Specimen Will W. Neil Collection (B. Max Mehl, 7/1947), as part of lot 2292; Amon G. Carter, Jr. Family Collection (Stack's, 1/1984), lot 249; Kenneth C. Long Estate Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1995), lot 1213; Bowers and Merena (8/1998), lot 236; Richmond Collection, Part II (David Lawrence Rare Coins, 11/2004), lot 1508. 5. PR63 PCGS. Rod Sweet Collection (Bowers and Merena, 7/2005), lot 1004.
1843 Proof Liberty Dollars PR64 (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #6984 / PCGS Serial #35487953 / POP 1/0 PCGS Price Guide: $70,000 / Last Auction Appearance: Heritage Houston, TX 12/2009: $37,375
Ex: Part of a complete proof set, half cent through dollar, with original case purchased from Judge Joseph F. Sawicki, May 10, 1948; John Jay Pittman Collection (David Akers, 10/1997), lot 832 (part of an 1843 proof set); The Phil Kaufman Collection of Early Proof Sets, Part Four (Heritage, 7/2008, lot 1810)
Certainly these very rare coins were produced with much pride by the mint employees that produced them. Given that only 50% of those minted are known, one has to wonder how many are still existent as family artifacts, or in cornerstones in buildings.
In this week’s update, we are comparing 5 dimes that range from 1796 to 1942. Again, I hope you have enjoyed this challenge so far.
The first comparison is the 1796. Both specimens are presently in PCGS holders which makes the decision easy. Eliasberg has the better coin by one grade point. The 1838-O “No Stars” dime was a dead tie with each collection having a PCGS certified MS65 specimen. The mercury dimes are where Hansen made a comeback.
Hansen’s 1916-D dime certified PCGS MS67FB with POP 8/0 is finer that Eliasberg’s specimen that is estimated MS65FB. I cannot find any record that his coin has been certified or auctioned since the Bowers & Merena May '96 sale. In the overdated 1942/1 Mercury Dime comparison, Eliasberg only obtained the 1942/1-P in estimated XF45 condition. Hansen easily have the better coins with finest being 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0). This was a comparison of all 4 dimes with overall best coin receiving one point.
This week ended with Hansen winning the dime challenge 2-1-1. Presently, Hansen has extended his lead by 4 coins. Next week challenge with be 5 quarters. I am a little disappointed that “The Barber Quarter” is not on the list, even though it could become controversial.
Dime Challenge
1796 Dime: First year of issue.
Hansen Coin: 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 7/10)
Eliasberg Coin: 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 7/3)
1838-O Dime: First mint marked issue of this denomination.
Hansen Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
Eliasberg Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
1916-D Mercury Dime: Rarest and best known coin of this design.
Hansen Coin: 1916-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 8/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1916-D Mercury Dime EST. MS65FB (POP 34/35)
1942/1-P Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series.
Hansen Coin: 1942/1-P Mercury Dime PCGS MS66FB (PCGS POP 10/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1942/1-P Mercury Dime EST. XF45 (PCGS POP 346/863)
1942/1-D Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series
Hansen Coin: 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1942/1-D Mercury Dime (Eliasberg did not have an specimen)
Eliasberg’s 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 7/3)
TIE--Hansen’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
TIE--Eliasberg’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1) No picture available
Hansen’s 1916-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 8/0)
Hansen’s 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0) No picture available
Next Week Quarters:
1796 Quarter: First U.S. quarter dollar; one year type.
1870-CC Quarter: First Carson City quarter; earliest issue from this mint.
1916 Standing Liberty Quarter: Popular first year of issue; famous bare breast design.
1918/7-S Quarter: Rarest issue of this design; only overdated issue.
1932-D Quarter: Key issue in the newly-popular Washington Quarter series.
Hey gazes, you want to make a challenge on the 10C 1796? I bought the MS67 for Simpson which some people think is a specimen. And it is CAC too.
These threads disturb me to no end. While Delloy is sucking all coins (good and bad), it should be noted there are others out there w/better coins-and bigger collections.
Do not think every coin bought is so cool. In many areas it was not hard to top Elasiberg
This is my first time to this post, normally just a lookin/lurker around here... I've tended to avoid coins that are "out of my league" therefore it only seemed reasonable for me to disregard discussions of the same, such as this. Obviously that has been my loss!! I've only read a few pages of this post so far(3 hrs) and I am in utter awe!!! The quality and preservation of the absolutely phenomenal and gorgeous specimens shown here, has literally blown my mind, in a sense. Some of these coins(most?) I had no idea even existed. The knowledge alone seems almost priceless!! Thank you for the detailed updates and info Currin and? Most informative for certain! Despite any and all nay-Sayers, I want commend you "Mr. Hansen" and thank you for sharing this most amazing journey of yours with us!!! Most definitely an epic adventure! May you, yours and all the coins be safe and protected!! Sincerely "Good Luck"!!!
@specialist said:
Hey gazes, you want to make a challenge on the 10C 1796? I bought the MS67 for Simpson which some people think is a specimen. And it is CAC too.
These threads disturb me to no end. While Delloy is sucking all coins (good and bad), it should be noted there are others out there w/better coins-and bigger collections.
Do not think every coin bought is so cool. In many areas it was not hard to top Elasiberg
I am not foolish enough to challenge you ! I trust your opinion about the 10C 1796. One reason I love this thread is I enjoy reading about collectors building their collections. If there was a thread similar to this one about the Simpson collection I would read it religiously as well.
Myself and Mr Simpson had a different style. We did not want any old thing offered to us-it was the very best or no. That is why we never looked to one up Eliasberg.
I am just tired of people thinking this set is the greatest ever-it is not. To me, this thread has been somewhat misleading
However, let me make this clear: Delloy IS one if the greatest collectors ever. ONE of the-NOT THE!
@specialist said:
Myself and Mr Simpson had a different style. We did not want any old thing offered to us-it was the very best or no. That is why we never looked to one up Eliasberg.
I am just tired of people thinking this set is the greatest ever-it is not. To me, this thread has been somewhat misleading
However, let me make this clear: Delloy IS one if the greatest collectors ever. ONE of the-NOT THE!
How does Mr. Simpson decide which coins to buy? I know he has patterns and proof gold---but does he collect series? does collect any coin that is special regardless of series? just curious what, if any, parameters he has?
We are down to the final day before the FUN starts. These are the top 5 coins that from my observation would make significant improvement to Hansen’s HOF collection. I have no idea that he will bid on any of them. The first two are coins neeeded for the Hansen Quest. It will be interesting to see if he goes for either one.
The next two coins would be needed for the Major Variety set. As discussed before, Hansen neeeds about 60 coins. These two specimens would fit very nicely in his cabinet. The last one is a very rare proof. This coin is not needed in any PCGS sets, but if Hansen wants one of everything, he must have this coin. There is no other 1818 proof quarter available.
If you have a different opinion, please share. This is my list of TOP 5. You may have a different list.
Atwater-Eliasberg-Morelan 85
What else need to be said? This coin is countdown coin for the Eliasberg Quest, number #10 on my list. There are only 5 known. This is Eliasberg’s specimen and the finest known. Does not appear to be going cheap. Be interesting to see if Hansen really wants it. Enough said...
1827 Brilliant proof, exceedingly rare - one bought at one of the sales $225, and not so fine a proof as this. (Edward Cogan, 4/1867)
A very similar thought to the first coin. It is not as rare as the 1885 T-Dollar. It is a countdown coin, number #13 on the list. It is not the finest, but a very nice condition census specimen. A strong pedigree dating back to 1867. Very nice toning. What else could you ask for?
Ted Naftzger Chain AMERI. Cent
This Chain variety would be need if Hansen plans to complete the Major Varieties category. Why not get a really nice one. The coin has cross the $1M bid threshold. PCGS values the coin at $1,350,000. We don’t how what Hansen values it at. What the buyer thinks is only thing that matters.
Caldwell-Weinberg 1795 S-80, B-11 Jefferson Head Cent
This is another old variety that Hansen will need at some point. This is the finest 1795 Jefferson Head cent in collectors' hands. One slightly finer is in the ANS. Will this be the week that he fills that hole? We will see.
This last example is a very interesting coin. I am not sure if PCGS would recognize the coin as a proof, although, it has been recognized as a proof for about 125 years. This is the earliest proof quarter. One other is known, but is in the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution. That one is a much lower grade. This is just one of 25-30 early proof dimes and quarters that is in the FUN sale. It will be interesting to see Hansen’s desire for these early coins. They may not be on his priority list at this time. By the way, this 1818 proof is a PF67!
I saw NO WAY on the 1885 TD. I Know 3 -yes 3 real players. Delloy would be happier I believe w/a lesser quality one to fill the hole ( I am NOT trashing that). But please......
And the jeff head-LOL.... he has ZERO shot. I know who the buyer will be. Bring it on (this buyer has never lost when he wants something).
I am breaking the norm a little with this update. Due the volume of inventory added to the Hansen Collection each week, mostly, we only see the finest. The majority of my updates are PCGS graded 1/0 coins. Many of the coins that may be one tick below don’t usually make the cut. I showed you two PCGS 1/0 Proof Liberty Seated Dollars last week. In doing so, I did not include this one. Over the past weekend, I looked at this coin and its history, and decided the coin was worthy of mentioning. Keep in mind, there are many coins like this one that never make the cut on this thread.
The new coin is an 1849 Proof Liberty Seated Dollar that is graded PR65 by PCGS. The coin is POP 4/1, so there is one finer and three other that are equal. This coin has the better pedigree (dated back to 1885) than the other three PR65s. The finest specimen is from The Phil Kaufman Collection and later the Greensboro Collection. It once sold for $230,000 in a 2008 auction. I think it is safe to say that the Kaufman Specimen is the finest known.
For a little history on the 1849, Q. David Bowers, in Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars of the United States (1993): Estimates the original proof mintage of 1849 Seated dollars at eight to 12 pieces, and a survival rate of five to eight coins. David Akers (1998) agrees with those estimates and indicates that he has been able to identify only six distinct coins, with the possible existence of another one or two specimens. Our research has uncovered eight different 1849 proof dollars, with some earlier citations that may be duplicates of the coins in the roster below. This list has an impressive list of Who’s/who of collectors that has been owners of the 1849 Proof Dollar: Kaufman, Garrett, Pittman, Lee, Starr, Eliasberg, Carter, Queller, and many others including now Hansen. Even though this may not be a POP 1/0, I felt it was too good not to show.
Roster of 1849 Proof Seated Liberty Dollars
1. PR66 PCGS Kaufman Collection -(Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2392, realized $230,000. 2. PR65 PCGS Hansen Specimen - J.C. Randall (W. Elliot Woodward, 9/1885), lot 73; Garrett Collection (Stack's, 3/1976), lot 266; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1679; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1514; Jack Lee Collection (Heritage, 11/2005), lot 2237, which realized $80,500; Exclusively Internet Auction (Heritage, 12/2005), lot 13665; Jack Lee Estate (Heritage, 1/2009), lot 3963; Bay State Collection, Part II (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 1151; Pittsburgh Signature (Heritage, 10/2011), lot 3877. 3. PR65 PCGS - Frederick Geiss (B. Max Mehl, 2/1947), lot 344; Floyd T. Starr (Stack's, 10/1992), lot 592; Larry Share Collection; Kennywood Collection (American Numismatic Rarities, 1/2005), lot 680; William H. LaBelle, Sr. Collection (American Numismatic Rarities, 7/2005), lot 1308. 4. PR65 NGC. Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. - (Bowers and Merena, 4/1997), lot 2216; ANA Signature (Heritage, 8/1998), lot 8195; Rod Sweet Collection (Bowers and Merena, 7/2005), lot 1010. 5. PR64 NGC. Amon Carter Collection- (Stack's, 1/1984), lot 257; Queller Family Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2146; Joseph C. Thomas Collection (Heritage, 4/2009), lot 2590; Internet Coin Auction (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 26928; Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 9/2009), lot 938. 6. PR64 NGC - Kenneth C. Long (Bowers and Merena, 5/1995), lot 1219; FUN Signature (Heritage, 1/1996), lot 5638; Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 9/1997), lot 7170; Dr. John L. Pellegrini Collection (Heritage, 7/2005), lot 10264. 7. PR58 PCGS - Pittsburgh ANA (Heritage, 8/2004), lot 6368. 8. Impaired Proof - 65th Anniversary Sale (Stack's, 10/2000), lot 1240.
1849 Hansen – Garrett- Pittman Proof Dollar
As with most proof dollars of the era, The 1849 Proof dollar is very rare. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around eight. This dollar last sold at auction October 2011, The Heritage Signature. At that time, the specimen was incased in a NGC PR65 holder and realized $66,125. The coin was described as being a boldly struck with excellent obverse and reverse details, including bold rims and borders, sharp head details, complete feather details, and sharp claws and leaves. The powder-blue toning is accompanied by traces of tan-gold and forest-green, with considerable remaining silver brilliance. The fields are fully mirrored around lustrous devices, with considerable cameo contrast. The obverse has a tiny imperfection within the triangular opening of the 4. Tiny projections or rust pits are attached to the tips of three dentils below and left of the 1. The reverse is the usual proof die that has two tiny defects on the right diagonal of the final A.
It appears this coin was offer for sale recently by Rare Coin Wholesalers. Lately, this company has been a constant supply for Hansen coins. The price listed was $141,000. We don’t know what Hansen paid, but PCGS places the value of the coin at $110,000. On their website, RCW did not offer a specific description of the coin, but did offer an interesting history of the Proof Dollars: The proof No Motto Seated Dollar series is one of the most difficult to collect in all of U.S. numismatics. From the series' inception in 1840 through 1858, the Mint did not record the number of proof coins struck each year. It is likely that very few examples were produced, particularly when one considers that there were hardly any numismatists active in the United States during the 1840s and 1850s. Although mintage figures increased markedly beginning in 1859, collector demand remained limited and many of the proofs struck from 1859 through 1865 were probably melted as unsold at year's end. The onset of the Civil War in 1861 resulted in considerable chaos in the Mint, reduced the already limited number of collectors and further contributed to the rarity of proof No Motto Dollars in today's market.
In comparing to Eliasberg, from his registry listing, he had an assumed grade of Choice Proof. The coin was sold by Bowers & Merena, April 1997 and realized $44,000. From the roster above we now know the coin is a PR65 in a NGC holder. Even though PCGS Coin Facts grade it as PR64 estimated grade, let’s assume Eliasberg to be a tie with Hansen.
1849 Proof Liberty Dollars PR65 (PCGS Gold Shield) PCGS Coin #6990 / PCGS Serial #36659312 / POP 4/1 PCGS Price Guide: $110,000
Ex: J.C. Randall (W. Elliot Woodward, 9/1885), lot 73; Garrett Collection (Stack's, 3/1976), lot 266; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1679; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1514; Jack Lee Collection (Heritage, 11/2005), lot 2237, which realized $80,500; Exclusively Internet Auction (Heritage, 12/2005), lot 13665; Jack Lee Estate (Heritage, 1/2009), lot 3963; Bay State Collection, Part II (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 1151; Pittsburgh Signature (Heritage, 10/2011), lot 3877.
Hi Currin, Just got back from a very exciting platinum night auction and spent some time with the gracious Dell Loy. He was very excited and engaged with other collectors at the auction. Of your five suggestions for him to buy at the FUN show auctions, he bought the "Mr. Big" coin, the finest known 1885 NGC PR66 trade dollar. He almost bought its twin the 1884 trade dollar in an attempt to keep those near twins together. Bruce Morelan just posted that he bought the 1827/3 original in PCGS PR65 [noting that its as rare as a nice 1804 dollar at one-tenth the price!]. Thankfully, I was able to land the 1818 PR67 CAC unique proof quarter that is not part of any PCGS sets at present. I agreed with your assessment that its a fantastically important and historic coin. As a completist collector trying to master early American silver, it was a must have for my early quarter proof set. Dell Loy did buy a number of other early silver proofs which undoubtedly will begin to populate his set. Dell Loy's acquisition of the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar to go along side of his 1884 PCGS MS67 trade dollar, now extends his collection further into super collector and an expanding historical context IMHO. I'm not sure where the other two coins, the 1793 chain cent or Jefferson head cent landed.
Thankfully, I was able to land the 1818 PR67 CAC unique proof quarter that is not part of any PCGS sets at present. I agreed with your assessment that its a fantastically important and historic coin. As a completist collector trying to master early American silver, it was a must have for my early quarter proof set.
Congratulation on the 1818 proof quarter dollar which I think is a “Mr. Big” too. It is a very intriguing coin. I would love to see your MI set someday. It appears to be coming along nicely. Are you planning to cross the ‘18 over to PCGS? I think the significance of the coin would increase greatly if you can get PCGS to recognize it as the only private owned pre-1820 proof quarter dollar. I personally think it should be included in the early proof quarter PCGS registry set. It would put the coin squarely on the map, and also, you would be only one that can have a complete registry set! Which now you deserve.
Thanks for sharing your experience with DLH. I have never met him, and doubtful I ever will. I base my understanding on what I read and what others say. Sometimes, I get the feeling that he is not a completest. Did you get feeling he didn’t want the 1818, or did he want it, but you won the battle? If so, big victory! In reading his published comments, he has never claimed be a completest, although he was willing to pay a big price to complete the TD Proofs. Sometimes I see he is not interested in coins that he may never have another opportunity to purchase, i.e. your 1818 and the 1854-S. At times, he don’t seem (to me) to “need the must have” that you described in your personal pursuit. I find this very interesting and intriguing to watch. I know... I break my own rule: The thread is about the collection/coins and not the man.
@specialist said:
I saw NO WAY on the 1885 TD. I Know 3 -yes 3 real players. Delloy would be happier I believe w/a lesser quality one to fill the hole ( I am NOT trashing that). But please......
And the jeff head-LOL.... he has ZERO shot. I know who the buyer will be. Bring it on (this buyer has never lost when he wants something).
Currin, you are making me light headed!
I wonder if DLH read this post and took it as a challenge
Hi Currin, I think Mr. Hansen is in fact a completist as regards to the Eliasberg quest. His chief adviser, John B., is clearly helping to execute that plan. His enthusiasm for US coins is affecting collectors in every single series and I believe this is very, very positive for the hobby. He had only been at this for a relatively short period and despite not starting with an extensive major inter-generational set like Eliasberg, he has made amazing progress towards his goal. It's a reflection of the modern era of information flow and deep resources that allows such an attempt. I think some series will take more time to evolve than others. Of course the Hansen collection will have decades of more coins than Eliasberg as well. Some of the early specialist sets are of course difficult to build in shorter periods because of the 10 to 15 to 20 year cycle of availability of key coins, as is the case with proof bust quarters. Eliasberg only had about 40% of the proof quarters dates in his set and Pittman only 50% for example. I'm a more focused specialist and i'm going to try to complete this set. The progress yesterday was getting the two unique proofs, 1818 and 1823/2 under one roof and away we go! I think the very informative blogging and curating that are you doing as his set builds is awesome and enjoyable for the entire group of PCGS collectors. All of who are watching the Hansen collection building around us. Keep up the great effort.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
In this week’s update, we are comparing a grouping of quarters from 1796 to 1932. Again this week, as each week so far, the challenge has been very competitive. Hansen still holds a slight lead overall.
The first comparison is the 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle quarter dollar. Eliasberg had the special finish specimen, so he wins this one. The difficult 1870-CC quarter, Eliasberg again had a much superior specimen compared to Hansen. After that tide starts to turn with Hansen’s monster 1916 SL MS67FH. No clear winner of the overdate 1918/7-S. Hansen’s ends the day with another monster coin, his 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 2/0)
I am a little disappointed that “The Barber Quarter” is not on the list. I think the 1901-S would have been a great coin to include in this challenge, but the author of the grouping did not include it. Hansen’s 1901-S MS68+ is the monster coin for Barber Quarters. If you have not seen it, you should look it up on Coin Facts.
This week ended with a tie in the quarter dollar challenge 2-2-1. Hansen maintains his 4 coin lead. Next week challenge will be a nice slate of half dollars.
Quarters
1796 Quarter: First U.S. quarter dollar; one year type.
Hansen Coin: 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter PCGS MS63+ (PCGS POP 1/14)
Eliasberg Coin: 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter PCGS SP66
1870-CC Quarter: First Carson City quarter; earliest issue from this mint.
Hansen Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter PCGS XF40 (PCGS POP 6/5)
Eliasberg Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter EST.MS64
1916 Standing Liberty Quarter: Popular first year of issue; famous bare breast design.
Hansen Coin: 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS67FH (PCGS POP 5/1)
Eliasberg Coin:1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS65(PCGS POP 28/406)
1918/7-S Quarter: Rarest issue of this design; only overdated issue.
Hansen Coin: 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64 (PCGS POP 28/39)
Eliasberg Coin: 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64 (PCGS POP 28/39)
1932-D Quarter: Key issue in the newly-popular Washington Quarter series.
Hansen Coin: 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 2/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1932-D Washington Quarter EST. MS65 (PCGS POP 87/7)
Gaze Challenge
Quarters - Tie (2-2-1)
Overall - Hansen (10-6-3)
Winning Coins:
Eliasberg’s 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter
Eliasberg’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter EST.MS64 No Picture found
Hansen’s 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS67FH
Hansen’s 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64
Eliasberg’s 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64 No Picture found
Hansen’s 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66
Next Week - Half Dollars:
1794 Half Dollar: First U.S. half dollar; rare low mintage issue.
1796-97 Half Dollars: Rarest U.S. silver type (Small Eagle reverse).
1815 Half Dollar: Rarest year of the Capped Bust design.
1836 Reeded Edge Half Dollar: Popular low mintage; first Reeded Edge issue.
1839-O Half Dollar: First collectible branch mint half dollar; obverse mintmark.
1870-CC Half Dollar: First Carson City half dollar.
1921-D Half Dollar: Rarest modern half dollar.
I would have blown old Delloy of of the water on the 1885 if I had been on the phone w/my other customer (he had no gudiance). He did buy the 1884.
I am disgusted the 2 coins were not kept together. I consider it a lack of respect. I am angry that after all the work I put in, the pony I picked came up short and bought ZERO trade Dollars. BTW, Legend had 3 real bidders. I knew the first person to 3.3 would win it. Not a good start to a year.
JB, that’s an incredible 1863 eagle. > @specialist said:
I bought the Jeff head.
I would have blown old Delloy of of the water on the 1885 if I had been on the phone w/my other customer (he had no gudiance). He did buy the 1884.
I am disgusted the 2 coins were not kept together. I consider it a lack of respect. I am angry that after all the work I put in, the pony I picked came up short and bought ZERO trade Dollars. BTW, Legend had 3 real bidders. I knew the first person to 3.3 would win it. Not a good start to a year.
Too bad you didn’t pick up the phone and call your client.
You are either blaming Dell for not buying the 1884. Or you’re blaming your client for not having the correct “guidance” on the 1885.
I am dedicating this week to Hansen Collection of Proof Trade Dollars. Tomorrow, we will start the discussion with the big FUN purchase. Later in the week, more discussions on the Proof Trade Dollar sets. Should be some good information. I am looking forward to learning more about these coins. I hope you enjoy as well. Any particulars you want to see in the discussions, just let me know.
There was a strong push to keep the two trade dollars together during the bidding for what it's worth. Someone told me at the show that the two weren't always together. Perhaps someone knows more history there and it can added to the Hansen trade dollar set review.
I could not call my other customer. I had committed to someone else who bid $3.2 on the 1885. Believe me, I had a ton of wasted time and energy and was with the wrong pony.
Wonder if Delloy even knows its Trade Dollar....And FYI-there is a better on out there. I SAW IT.
@GoBust said:
There was a strong push to keep the two trade dollars together during the bidding for what it's worth. Someone told me at the show that the two weren't always together. Perhaps someone knows more history there and it can added to the Hansen trade dollar set review.
The coins separated at the Eliasberg sale. I bought the 1885 in 1999. I bought the 1884 several years later to reunite them. I sold them as a pair to the consignor via JA and Heritage. So they’ve been together their entire life except about four years until now
@specialist said:
I could not call my other customer. I had committed to someone else who bid $3.2 on the 1885. Believe me, I had a ton of wasted time and energy and was with the wrong pony.
Wonder if Delloy even knows its Trade Dollar....And FYI-there is a better on out there. I SAW IT.
How many 1884’s have you seen that are better than the Eliasberg coin? I already know you’re not a fan of the Starr coin as a 67, but where do you rank it?
Andy Lustig
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Comments
C'mon guys, lets all take a breath, it's Christmas.
Later, Paul.
@Currin said: "In week number three update, we are comparing four small cents. I hope this to be a fun game. In my first week posting, I described this challenge as “an interesting experiment”. Insider2 reminded us that it is hard to compare collections a half century apart. He described as a “fanciful exercise”. I agree, but I hope everyone have fun watching the progression of this game."
It's a shame when we compare two coins from any different collections that we don't know the month and year when each coin was graded. It might be like Hanson 1909-S VDB MS-67 Red(2014)/Eliasberg 1909-S VDB MS-66 RB (1998). That's because the grading standards have changed over the years.
Here is a story you all can laugh at. The Hanson 1909-S VDB would be a perfect example of the AU-58 grade in the 1970's at the first TPGS at INSAB. Back then we sent a full red 55 DDO 1c out as an AU-58. We also sent a letter back with the coin saying that we had to grade the coin AU because of the trace of wear on the head. Then we advised him that his coin was the best example we had ever seen, that whatever he paid it was worth the price; that the dealer did nothing wrong calling the coin a Choice Unc (65); and that he should not bother to try and find a better example.
I've told my students that if the coin remained in the same condition today it would probably grade MS-67 or MS-68. It turns out I've been pretty close with my long-held prediction.
True technical grading during the period of "no trace of wear" was pretty tough; yet that coin would never be graded MS one time and AU the next due to the loss of luster (for whatever the reason) on the ear, cheekbone, and beard. That's what made that grading system so precise and why grades did not change over time or due to the condition of the coin business.
Old Gold Eagle Upgrade from New Orleans
I guess you could say this is a rare coin for mint state. It appear no specimens exist in Gem grades and one unconfirmed in Choice grade. Hansen is replacing a nice AU58 coin. The 1881-O Liberty Head Eagle does not have any Earth shaking records. The auction record for the coin is $17,250 that was realized in a 2011 Hertiage auction at Long Beach. The record specimen is the Ex. Eliasberg specimen NGC MS61. It appear that even though there is a better coin in the NGC POP report (MS63), there is not much evidence that it exist. The Hertiage auctioneer wrote this comment: The NGC Census Report lists a single coin finer, an MS63, but Doug Winter's Gold Coins of the New Orleans Mint openly questions such a coin's existence, going so far as to ask whether it is a "data entry error."
Doug Winter: The 1881-O is the scarcest of the three low mintage New Orleans eagles produced between 1880 and 1882. It is about twice as available today as it was a decade ago, due to the discovery of some relatively large groups of coins in the early part of the 1990’s. Most of these were in the VF-EF range and this date remains very scarce in higher grades. The 1881-O is an underappreciated, low mintage issue that is generally seen in EF40 to AU50 grades. It becomes very scarce in properly graded AU55 and is rare in AU58. In full Mint State, the 1881-O eagle is very rare and extremely undervalued. There are probably fewer than a half dozen known and I have never personally seen one better than MS61.
**1881-O $ Liberty Head Eagle MS61 CAC Cert# 36607437 PCGS POP 2/0
This replacement eagle is tied for this finest known PCGS, with one other MS61. The NGC MS61 Eliasberg may be the 3rd tie. This date and mint can not be easlity found. This may the best 1881-O specimen that Hansen will ever be able to acquire. The coin was obtained privately, and there are no records and the provenance can not be traced.
PCGS Coin Value places the value of this coin at $21,500. It appear the coin was purchased privately. I have not been successful in finding any addition information on the purchase. The coin is a nice addition to the collection.
The Hansen coin is graded PCGS MS61, and Eliasberg specimen is graded NGC MS61. Coin Facts does not list the Eliasberg in its condition consus report. For now, let’s just leave the Hansen and Eliasberg tied for the 1881-O Eagle.
Provenance: Unknown
Tied for PCGS Finest Known1881- O Eagle PCGS MS61
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
again...wow
Even I have to be nice to Delloy, he called me and wished me a Merry Xmas. He and I and like oil and water-and he knows it. I guess opposites do attract...
It appear DLH purchased one of JRCSLM32 half dime sets, Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805). This is a 15 coin set, and from the purchased, Hansen replaced 11 coins in his set. Of the 11 replaced, five were PCGS POP 1/0. The big news is that with the set, he purchased a 1802 half dime. This is a count down coin. The 1802 coin is ex. Simpson. I will post a count down update on Monday. It appears DLH/JB is finishing the year strong.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dimes/early-half-dimes-major-sets/flowing-hair-draped-bust-half-dimes-major-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1792-1805/alltimeset/171441
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
That's a very nice 1802, tied for 5th on Breen's roster.
Below 9th the quality drops very fast, so this is one that could have taken awhile.
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/937249/1802-half-dime-provenance-top-9-specimens
The 1796 LM-1 MS-67+ is a dazzler, as are some of the other pop 1/0 bust half dimes from that top registry set.
Good work! It just got posted this afternoon...yes, we purchased 12 of the coins from the set and they are quite amazing. We started working on this collection in July, but we finally got it done in December! We're excited to add the 1802 and the rest of the coins are marvelous as well. Each piece has a PCGS TrueView as well, so you can see the quality!
President of David Lawrence Rare Coins www.davidlawrence.com
email: John@davidlawrence.com
2022 ANA Dealer of the Year, Past Chair of NCBA (formerly ICTA), PNG Treasurer, Instructor at Witter Coin University, former Instructor/YN Chaperone ANA Summer Seminar, Coin World Most Influential, Curator of the D.L. Hansen Collection
I agree, the 1796 LIKERTY is a big catch of the group. According to the PCGS Price Guide, it is twice the value of the 1802. First glance I place the value on the 1802. The price guide list the total value of the 11 upgrades and the new 1802 at $1,673,500. According to JB, the negotiations last six months. Very nice outcome.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I am not happy when sets I build get broken up....Delloy did again to me....grrrr...
"Focus relative to wealth" is what every collector should strive for. With each purchase, Delloy makes me reevaluate my own collecting strategy. I'm a collector only, and not a dealer. This is a side benefit of his impact to the hobby that most people are not considering. He's a game changer. (I don't collect at his level but it is all relative)
On the morning after the battle of the Monitor and the Merrimack, when there was an argument that there was no clear victor between the two, the verdict was that all other navies were rendered useless. I see Hansen v. Eliasberg the same way.
Currin - When you post Gazes small Cent challenge comparing Hansen’s small cent challenge
to Eliasberg’s small cents, it’s comparing apples to pineapples.
IMO if you want to compare coins which both collectors collected primarily and almost totally
In the 19th century. Compare:
Barber dimes,quarters and half dollars both mint state and proof
Seated dimes, quarters and half dollars both proof and mint state
Half Cents
Large Cents
Two Cents
Three Cent Silvers
Gold coins
Liberty Eagles
Liberty Double Eagles
Most seasoned collectors consider the Eliasberg Coin collection the greatest collection ever assembled. The breadth of the Hanson collection is by far greater than the Eliasberg collection.
I hope you agree with me in comparing apples to apples
Gazes Challenge –Part 4
In week number four update, we are starting our silver series. I hope you have enjoyed this challenge so far. This is intended to be fun, so I hope to keep it that way. The rule of the game is to compare grades for a predetermined group of coins in Hansen’s Registry set with the Eliasberg’s. I understand this may not be complete and comprehensive comparison, but it is simple. If I find any additional information that could change the results, I may at times break the rule, as I did on this update.
The two coins being compared this week is the 1792 and 1802 Half Dimes. Hansen has the better 1792 Half Diime by two grade points. Hansen did an upgrade this week and added the 1802. He got the new coin just under the wire. Before this update, it appeared Eliasberg would get at least one point by default. Eliasberg will still get a point for the 1802.
I am going to break my rule of the 1802. By registry grading, Hansen has the better coin, PCGS VF45 vs. Eliasberg estimated grade VF40. I asked for a second opinion from someone that has study these coins. Breen graded both of them VF-EF. I'd say they are roughly equal. The Eliasberg specimen has been certified AU53 by PCGS. The coin was sold in 2017 in a Heritage auction. Being I have knowledge of this info, I will break the rule and declare Eliasberg winner of the 1802.
This week ended in tie 1/1. Next week could be interesting with 4 coins in the challenge.
Half Dimes
1792 Half Disme: First regular issue U.S. coin; association with George Washington.
Hansen Coin: 1792 Half Dimse MS66 (PCGS POP 3/2, overall: 3/3)
Eliasberg Coin: 1792 Half Dimse MS64 (PCGS POP 8/5, overall: 8/6)
Winning Coin:
Hansen 1792 Half Disme - PCGS MS66
1802 Half Dime: Rarest half dime; important U.S. rarity. (Note: considered collectable)
Hansen Coin: 1802 Half Dime PCGS XF45 (PCGS POP 1/3, overall 1/4)
Eliasberg Coin: 1802 Half Dime – Estimated XF40 (currently PCGS AU 53 PCGS POP 1/2)
Winning Coin:
Eliasberg 1802 Half Dime PCGS AU53
Gaze Challenge
Half Dimes - Tie (1-1-0)
Overall - Hansen (6-3-1)
Next week: Dimes
1796 Dime: First year of issue.
1838-O Dime: First mintmarked issue of this denomination.
1916-D Mercury Dime: Rarest and best known coin of this design.
1942/1-P Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series.
1942/1-D Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series
Note: Winner of the 1942/1 will be best of the 4
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I called you on Christmas and they put me on hold. Then hung up. LOL. Only kidding!
HAPPY NEW YEAR to everyone. Hope to see some of you at FUN.
Count Down 24 – Last update for 2018
It is fitting for the last update of the year to be a countdown coin. We have seen some really great additions to the collection, and this one should be near the top. Only 24 coins to go before DLH can accomplish his quest. According to my observation, he started 2018 needing about 80 coins to complete the Eliasberg Classic set. He will start 2019 needing only 24. I will not make any New Year predictions, but getting the number down to 10-12 by the end of 2019 would be a significant accomplishment. It is great to see him finishing the year strong. With the upcoming FUN auctions in January, he will have the opportunity to start 2019 just as strong.
In considering collectable coins, this is the last silver coin that Hansen required. It does complete PCGS U.S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes for non-gold. Hansen still has a few more gold coins to go. There are still several more silver coins needed to complete the Eliasberg Quest. You may review the list below to see those coins. PCGS do not include many of them in their complete registry sets due to I believe collectability. For simplicity, I wish PCGS would be more consistent and include all coins.
Historically, the last silver coin that Hansen needed to complete the U.S. Coins Complete Basic Set, Circulation Strikes set was the 1802 Half Dime. This is not an easy coin to obtain is quality condition. It is said that all known samples have problems, some less than others. Ron Guth wrote this on the 1802 Half Dimes: The 1802 Half Dime is one of the classic rarities in United States coins thanks to a small mintage and a low survival rate. Breen (1988) claims the date was first "recorded" in 1863, when three examples were known, but according to David Davis, the first auction appearance of an 1802 Half Dime was in Edward Cogan's December 1859 sale. In 1883, Harold P. Newlin enumerated 16 examples, but according to Logan & McCloskey (1998, p. 9), he overlooked at least a few auction appearances. In 1935, James MacAllister claimed to know of 35 examples (Breen, p. 279). The definitive listing of 1802 Half Dimes appears in Logan & McCloskey (pp. 9-38), where David J. Davis chronicled 167 sales and appearances over a 140 year time period. By combining duplicate appearances and matching against Newlin's and Breen's lists, Davis confirmed a population of 35 examples. The majority of the known examples are in low grade. The finest example known is the About Uncirculated Garrett example, though there are some close competitors. No true Uncirculated examples are known.
As stated, Breen did research on the 1802 Half Dime. There are about nine specimens that are in really good collectable condition. I would say that Hansen’s coin falls in the middle of the list. There were three specimens that ranks as EF/VF+, the Hansen Specimen, the Pittman Specimen, and the Eliasberg Specimen. He ranked the Garrett as finest, Valentine (Pogue) as second, and Atwater as third.
1802 Half Dime XF45 Cert 29582773 PCGS POP 1/4
As stated, there are may be three of four other specimens that in better condition than the Hansen Specimen. His Coin is the Ex: Simpson Specimen. This coin has not sold in auction in some time. The coin appeared in Pre-ANA Vintage Sale in 1989, but it did not sale. The last auction where it was sold was the New England Rare Coin Auction in 1978 where the coin realized $16,500. The latest documented owners are Larry Hanks, Jay Parrino, Bob Simpson, and now the Hansen Collection. Some other famous owners in the pedigree are Dr. Angus Black and Reed Hawn.
This Condition Census coin is a great addition to the set. Being the coin has appeared in limited public sales and auctions, there are not many profession descriptions for this coin. The coin is very appealing and has nice original toning. I did find a description of the coin’s marking from YOSCLIMBER’s Stanford Educational Website:
1. horizontal scratch midway between date and neck curl
2. diagonal scratch from neck curl to base of chin
3. small nick in center of shield (4th stripe)
4. scratches or adjustment marks between ES and stars
5. nose, under chin, right stars machine doubled, same as Valentine & Atwater
6. pale golden (or gun metal / rose) luster
The coin was purchase in a 12 coin group from the collection of JRCSLM32 set: Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805). This is a 15 coin set, and from the purchased, Hansen replaced 11 coins in his set. Of the 11 replaced, five were PCGS POP 1/0. The 1802 was included in the set purchased. We do not know the price paid for the grouping, but according to JB, the negotiations lasted six months. The PCGS price guide list the total value of the 11 upgrades and the new 1802 at $1,673,500.
According to PCGS graders, The Eliasberg Specimen is a better condition coin than Hansen’s. By registry grading, Hansen’s coin is PCGS VF45 vs. Eliasberg PCGS AU53. Breen considered them to be about equal.
1802 Draped Bust Half Dime XF45 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #4268 / PCGS Serial #29582773 / POP 1/4
Ex: George Hale, 1945 - Dr. Angus Black, 1970 - Reed Hawn, 1973 - Newport Collection, 1975 - Bibler - private collection - Norman Pullen - Larry Hanks - East Coast Collection - Vintage Auctions 8/1989:103 - Bob R. Simpson Collection
There are 24 remaining coins in the Eliasberg Quest. The 14 coins that are not listed in “complete registry set” are Bold below. Note: DLH was a partner in the purchase of the 1854-S Half Eagle being that he's a partner with DLRC, but after purchasing the coin, DLHC reported the specimen was sold to an undisclosed client.
Top 10
1870-S Half Dime (Unique Coin in Tom Bender PCGS Registry Collection)
1873-CC "No Arrows" Dime (Unique Coin in an anonymous collection)
1870-S Three Dollar Only (Unique Coin owned by the Bass Foundation displayed at the ANA)
1866 "No Motto" Dollar Proof Only (2 Minted, Unique Private Coin in Simpson Collection)
1822 Half Eagle (Survival 3, Unique Private Owned Coin in the Pogue Collection)
1933 Double Eagle (Known Survival 16, Unique Legally Owned Coin - anonymous collection)
1854-S Half Eagle (Survival 4, Two known in private: 1-Pogue AU58+; 2- XF45 sold July 2018)
1798 "Small Eagle" Half Eagle (Survival 7, Only 2 maybe 3 examples could be privately purchased)
1913 Liberty Head Nickel Proof Only (5 Minted, 3 private owned)
1885 Trade Dollar Proof Only (Minted known 5)
Next 10
1838-0 Half Dollar BM Only (Survival 9, six known for private purchase)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Coiled Hair) Proof Only (Survival 8)
1827 "Original" Quarter Dollar Proof Only (Survival 9)
1894-S Barber Dime BM Proof Only (Survival 13)
1841 Quarter Eagle (Survival for regular strikes 12, proofs 4)
1797 "Large Eagle” Half Eagle (Survival 20)
1819 Half Eagle (Survival for “No Variety” 7, for “5D/50” 17)
1880 Four Dollar Gold "Stella’s" (Flowing Hair) Proof Only (Survival 24)
1933 Ten Dollar (Survival 40, rarest issue in series)
1796 “Stars" Quarter Eagle (Survival 40)
Last 4
1839 Gobrecht Dollar Proof Only (Survival 60-75)
1840-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 65)
1854-D Quarter Eagle (Survival 75)
1798 Quarter Eagle (Survival 80)
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
FIRST 2019 POSTING - A group of "Famous" Draped Bust Half Dimes
This posting consist of five PCGS graded POP 1/0 Draped Bust Half Dimes. These coins were purchased from the collection of JRCSLM32: Flowing Hair and Draped Bust Half Dimes Major Variety Set, Circulation Strikes (1792-1805) set. Hansen purchased 12 coins in this grouping, the 1802, these 5 PCGS POP 1/0, and six others. These are undisputed the finest known specimens, with three from the World Class D. Brent Pogue Collection, one from the Famous Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection, and the last from the Great Bob R. Simpson Collection. Is Hansen trying to make a statement on the quality that is being sought?
I believe this 1796 “LM-1 LIKERTY” MS67+ is the finest Draped Bust “Small Eagle” Half Dime known to exist for the type. The finest Draped Bust Half Dime is believed to be the 1800 Norweb /Pogue PCGS MS68 that is tightly tucked away in the unpublished High Desert Collection, that coin is a Draped Bust “Large Eagle” Half Dime. Hansen has not updated his type set yet. I do believe that when he does, his 1796 will be top pop (1/0) for “Draped Bust Half Dime, Small Eagle (1796-1797)”. I would not count the Hansen Collection out for an type run yet.
1796 “LM-1 LIKERTY” Draped Bust Half Dime MS67+ (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #38596 (Variety of: #4254) / PCGS Serial #31385758 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $475,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015: $411,250
Ex: Texas Collection - Christies 5/1989:98, $198,000 - Knoxville Collection - Jay Parrino (The Mint) - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015:1005, $411,250
1796/5 Draped Bust Half Dime MS66 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #38595 (Variety of: #4255) / PCGS Serial #10855119 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $225,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage FUN 1/2008: $345,000
Ex: Lorin G. Parmelee Collection - New York Coin & Stamp 6/1890:728, $8.50 - “Clay” (per S.H. Chapman’s priced/named catalog on the Newman Numismatic Portal) - T. Harrison Garrett Collection - Robert Garrett Collection - John Work Garrett Collection - Johns Hopkins University Collection - Bowers & Ruddy 11/1979:229 (misattributed as a V-1), $60,000 - Dr. Herb Ketterman Collection - James A. "Jimmy" Hayes Collection - Stack’s 10/1985:5 - John Whitney Walter Collection - Stack's 5/1999:1761, $71,875 - Essex Palm Collection - Heritage 1/2007:842, $172,500 - Madison Collection - Heritage 1/2008:2743, $345,000 - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers & Sotheby’s 5/2015:1007, $188,000
1800 “LM-3 LIBEKTY” Draped Bust Half Dime MS66 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin # 38603 (Variety of: #4265) / PCGS Serial #21907679 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $150,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015: $152,750
Ex: Jay Parrino (The Mint), sold privately in 3/1994 - Foxfire Collection (Claude E. Davis., MD), sold as an entire collection on 10/5/2004 - D. Brent Pogue Collection - Stack’s/Bowers/Sotheby’s 5/2015
1803 “Large 8” Draped Bust Half Dime MS65+ (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #4269 / PCGS Serial #06641801 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $200,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage ANA 8/2014: $ 170,375
Ex: Harlan P. Smith Sale (S.H. and H. Chapman, 5/1906); J.M. Clapp; Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1996), lot 905, which realized $53,900. From The Collection of Oliver Jung.
1803 “Small 8” Draped Bust Half Dime MS63 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #4270 / PCGS Serial #25304186 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $125,000 / Last Auction Appearance: Stack's 1/2002, $7,762.50
Ex: Neil Collection - B. Max Mehl 6/1947:1520 - Harold S. Bareford Collection - Stack's 10/1981:36 - Stack's, sold privately in 8/1985 - Stack's 1/2002:1104, $7,762.50 - Bob R. Simpson Collection
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Wow, that 1796 LM-1 MS-67+ : the colors give the devices such great contrast.
Here's the 1800 LM-1 MS-68 ex-Norweb for reference. (PCGS CoinFacts photo)
https://auctions.stacksbowers.com/lots/view/1-1DMVA
Hansen's 1800 LM-3 MS-66 is really nice, too.
A Pair of Old Saloon Dollars
When I think of these coins I think of the time during the old Wild West. I can picture James West with a pocket full of these. Being these are the “best minted and preserved dollars” for 1842 and 1843, more than likely never saw the inside of a pocket, much less a saloon. Hansen continues to add to his proof quest. These are two really great additions to that quest. I don’t know for sure, maybe a dollar expert such as TDN can straighten me out, but I believe Amon Carter maybe the only collector that has assembled a complete set in this series. He is credited with a run from 1840 to 1873. He did not have 1836 or 1839. During his era, the 1836-39 Gobrecht dollars may not have been considered as belonging in the Proof Liberty Seated Dollars Basic Set. This is mention in his bio: Amon was a devoted numismatist whose interests ran all the way from United States gold, silver and copper coins including territorial coins to world coins and U.S. and world currency. After Amon’s death, his entire collection was auctioned by Stack’s. At the time, his collection contained the finest and most complete collection of U.S. silver dollars ever to be auctioned.
According to Eliasberg’s registry, he was missing 7 proof dollars, including both the 1842 and 1843. In more recent times, The Southern Seated Dollar Collection was sold in 2008 that was described as an assembly of 31 different proof Seated dollars including many rarities and ultra-low mintage issues. The present registry set requires 36 coins, so it was a very good effort. In 2011, Pinnacle Rarities purchased the San Diego Collection of Proof Seated Dollars featuring 14 of the 16 possible dates from 1858 to 1873. No mention of the early dates 1836 – 1857. It does not appear this to be a popular series for the advance early proof collections. I hope TDN would be able to share his thoughts on why.
For all the auctions and references that are mention in the update, these coins were in NGC holders. Sometime since the last public auctions, they have been successfully crossed over to PCGS. They were crossed maintaining the same grade. In CoinFacts, the 1843 is listed #4 as PR63 estimated grade (NGC MS64). When CFs update, this coin should be elevated to the top, ahead of the three PCGS PR63s that were previously tied for the number one spot. Likewise, the 1842 is already in the top spot as PCGS PR65.
The 1842 was recent offer for sale by Rare Coin Wholesalers. The price offered was $136,000. This is considerable more that PCGS Value Guide of $85,000. I did not discover any additional information on the 1843.
1842 Hansen – Norweb - Kaufman Dollar, Glittering Gem Proof - Considered the Finest Known
The 1842 Proof dollar is very rare. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around eight. I have listed seven of them. I don’t have the Amon Carter specimen listed, so that could be the eighth. I do know he owned one. Ron Guth description: Proof 1842 Silver Dollars are very rare, with probably less than a dozen known. PCGS has certified only three examples, which is one of the smallest populations of any Seated Liberty Dollars in Proof. Those certified by PCGS include single examples at PR65, PR64, and PR62. NGC has also certified a number of Proof 1842 Seated Dollars, but it is unclear if there are any resubmissions of duplications in their listings. No Cameo Proof 1842 Seated Dollars are known at present, though it is possible that some might exist.
This is a fantastic coin. Heritage description: The Greensboro coin is a glittering Gem with superb golden-tan patina imbued with blushes of sky-blue, lilac, russet, and purple. Mirrored fields offer moderate contrast with the motifs at all angles of observation, but mostly when the coin is rotated just slightly beneath a light source. A solid strike brings out sharp definition on the design elements, leaving no areas with even the slightest hint of weakness. A couple of minute milling marks to the left of the upper left (facing) shoulder of Liberty, along with a tick concealed in the hair at the top right of Liberty's head, may help identify the piece for future catalogers.
Known Specimens from the Heritage catalog:
1. PR65 NGC. The Hansen – Norweb - Kaufman Specimen.The Greensboro specimen. The Norweb Collection (Bowers and Merena, 11/1988), lot 3780; Phil Kaufman Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2382.
2. PR63 NGC. Dr. John L. Pellegrini (Heritage ANA Sale, 7/2005), lot 10258; FUN Sale (Heritage, 1/2007), lot 1059.
3. PR62 PCGS. The Pitman Specimen Lester Merkin (10/1969), lot 376; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1673; Morris Silverman (Heritage, 4/2002), lot 4072; Rarities Sale (Bowers and Merena, 5/2004), lot 253; 2006 ANA (Bowers and Merena, 8/2006), lot 2345.
4. PR61 NGC. Richmond Collection, Part III (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1507.
5. PR58. Superior (9/2002), lot 1067.
6. Proof. Smithsonian Institution.
7. Proof. American Numismatic Society.
1842 Proof Liberty Dollars PR65 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #6983 / PCGS Serial #36659765 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $85,000 / Record Auction Appearance: Heritage CSNS 4/2008: $86,250
Ex: The Norweb Collection (Bowers and Merena, 11/1988), lot 3780; Phil Kaufman Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2382 - The Greensboro Collection
The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman 1843 Seated Dollar PR64, Finest Certified PCGS
The 1843 Proof dollar is not a GEM, but may be the finest. There are three specimens very close in grade, The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman Specimen, The Starr – Qualler Specimen, and The Pellegrini Specimen. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around twelve. I have listed the known census condition specimens. Ron Guth offered this information: Like the 1842 and 1844 Proof Dollars, the 1843 is extremely rare. We estimate that perhaps a dozen were struck, but only six have been positively identified as separate examples. Most are brilliant Proofs, though one example has been certified as a Cameo Proof (PCGS PR63CAM). It is doubtful if even a single Deep Cameo was struck, as none are known today. The finest example is a single NGC PR64, which also happens to hold the highest auction price realized for the date. All in all, the 1843 Dollar appears to be one of the best values among classic American Proof coins.
During the cataloging this specimen for the Kaufman Collection, it was described as: A mélange of violet, sky-blue, reddish-gold, and golden-orange patination adorns both sides of this near-Gem proof, being somewhat softer in hue in the fields. The toning does not completely mask the mirrors of the latter, hence a degree of contrast with the motifs is evident when the coin is tilted slightly beneath a light source. A solid strike lends exceptional detail to the design elements, including complete separation of Liberty's foot, sandal, and straps, and bold ribbing on the reverse leaves and arrow heads. A minute mark to the right of star 9 aids in identifying the coin. A Heritage description added: We would add little to the description, above except to point out that such a coin is seldom available, and it is much rarer than recent appearances might lead one to believe. Once it finds a permanent place in some fine cabinet, it might be decades before it appears again in the marketplace.
Known Specimens from the heritage catalog:
1. PR64 PCGS. The Hansen - Pittman-Kaufman Specimen. Judge Joseph F. Sawicki (May 10, 1948); John Jay Pittman Collection (David Akers, 10/1997), lot 832 (part of an 1843 proof set); Phil Kaufman (Heritage, 7-8/2008), lot 1810.
2. PR64 NGC. Dr. John L. Pellegrini Collection (Heritage, 7/2005), lot 10259; Heritage (1/2007), lot 1060.
3. PR64 NGC. The Starr – Qualler Specimen Frederic W. Geiss Collection (B. Max Mehl, 2/1947), lot 337; Floyd T. Starr Collection (Stack's, 10/1992), lot 583; David Queller Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2140.
4. PR63 NGC. The Carter Specimen Will W. Neil Collection (B. Max Mehl, 7/1947), as part of lot 2292; Amon G. Carter, Jr. Family Collection (Stack's, 1/1984), lot 249; Kenneth C. Long Estate Collection (Bowers and Merena, 5/1995), lot 1213; Bowers and Merena (8/1998), lot 236; Richmond Collection, Part II (David Lawrence Rare Coins, 11/2004), lot 1508.
5. PR63 PCGS. Rod Sweet Collection (Bowers and Merena, 7/2005), lot 1004.
1843 Proof Liberty Dollars PR64 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #6984 / PCGS Serial #35487953 / POP 1/0
PCGS Price Guide: $70,000 / Last Auction Appearance: Heritage Houston, TX 12/2009: $37,375
Ex: Part of a complete proof set, half cent through dollar, with original case purchased from Judge Joseph F. Sawicki, May 10, 1948; John Jay Pittman Collection (David Akers, 10/1997), lot 832 (part of an 1843 proof set); The Phil Kaufman Collection of Early Proof Sets, Part Four (Heritage, 7/2008, lot 1810)
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Certainly these very rare coins were produced with much pride by the mint employees that produced them. Given that only 50% of those minted are known, one has to wonder how many are still existent as family artifacts, or in cornerstones in buildings.
OINK
Gazes Challenge –Part 5
In this week’s update, we are comparing 5 dimes that range from 1796 to 1942. Again, I hope you have enjoyed this challenge so far.
The first comparison is the 1796. Both specimens are presently in PCGS holders which makes the decision easy. Eliasberg has the better coin by one grade point. The 1838-O “No Stars” dime was a dead tie with each collection having a PCGS certified MS65 specimen. The mercury dimes are where Hansen made a comeback.
Hansen’s 1916-D dime certified PCGS MS67FB with POP 8/0 is finer that Eliasberg’s specimen that is estimated MS65FB. I cannot find any record that his coin has been certified or auctioned since the Bowers & Merena May '96 sale. In the overdated 1942/1 Mercury Dime comparison, Eliasberg only obtained the 1942/1-P in estimated XF45 condition. Hansen easily have the better coins with finest being 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0). This was a comparison of all 4 dimes with overall best coin receiving one point.
This week ended with Hansen winning the dime challenge 2-1-1. Presently, Hansen has extended his lead by 4 coins. Next week challenge with be 5 quarters. I am a little disappointed that “The Barber Quarter” is not on the list, even though it could become controversial.
Dime Challenge
1796 Dime: First year of issue.
Hansen Coin: 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 7/10)
Eliasberg Coin: 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 7/3)
1838-O Dime: First mint marked issue of this denomination.
Hansen Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
Eliasberg Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
1916-D Mercury Dime: Rarest and best known coin of this design.
Hansen Coin: 1916-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 8/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1916-D Mercury Dime EST. MS65FB (POP 34/35)
1942/1-P Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series.
Hansen Coin: 1942/1-P Mercury Dime PCGS MS66FB (PCGS POP 10/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1942/1-P Mercury Dime EST. XF45 (PCGS POP 346/863)
1942/1-D Dimes: Only recognized overdates in the Mercury Dime series
Hansen Coin: 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1942/1-D Mercury Dime (Eliasberg did not have an specimen)
Gaze Challenge
Dimes - Hansen (2-1-1)
Overall - Hansen (8-4-2)
Winning Coins:
Eliasberg’s 1796 Draped Bust Dime PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 7/3)
TIE--Hansen’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
TIE--Eliasberg’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Dime PCGS MS65 (PCGS POP 4/1)
No picture available
Hansen’s 1916-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 8/0)
Hansen’s 1942/1-D Mercury Dime PCGS MS67FB (PCGS POP 1/0)
No picture available
Next Week Quarters:
1796 Quarter: First U.S. quarter dollar; one year type.
1870-CC Quarter: First Carson City quarter; earliest issue from this mint.
1916 Standing Liberty Quarter: Popular first year of issue; famous bare breast design.
1918/7-S Quarter: Rarest issue of this design; only overdated issue.
1932-D Quarter: Key issue in the newly-popular Washington Quarter series.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Hansen posted a new set that he started today.. Am I reading to much into it?
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/half-dimes/early-dimes-specialty-sets/draped-bust-dimes-die-variety-set-by-john-reich-circulation-strikes-1796-1807/5948
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Currin
what do you read into it?
Hey gazes, you want to make a challenge on the 10C 1796? I bought the MS67 for Simpson which some people think is a specimen. And it is CAC too.
These threads disturb me to no end. While Delloy is sucking all coins (good and bad), it should be noted there are others out there w/better coins-and bigger collections.
Do not think every coin bought is so cool. In many areas it was not hard to top Elasiberg
This is my first time to this post, normally just a lookin/lurker around here... I've tended to avoid coins that are "out of my league" therefore it only seemed reasonable for me to disregard discussions of the same, such as this. Obviously that has been my loss!! I've only read a few pages of this post so far(3 hrs) and I am in utter awe!!! The quality and preservation of the absolutely phenomenal and gorgeous specimens shown here, has literally blown my mind, in a sense. Some of these coins(most?) I had no idea even existed. The knowledge alone seems almost priceless!! Thank you for the detailed updates and info Currin and? Most informative for certain! Despite any and all nay-Sayers, I want commend you "Mr. Hansen" and thank you for sharing this most amazing journey of yours with us!!! Most definitely an epic adventure! May you, yours and all the coins be safe and protected!! Sincerely "Good Luck"!!!
I am not foolish enough to challenge you ! I trust your opinion about the 10C 1796. One reason I love this thread is I enjoy reading about collectors building their collections. If there was a thread similar to this one about the Simpson collection I would read it religiously as well.
Myself and Mr Simpson had a different style. We did not want any old thing offered to us-it was the very best or no. That is why we never looked to one up Eliasberg.
I am just tired of people thinking this set is the greatest ever-it is not. To me, this thread has been somewhat misleading
However, let me make this clear: Delloy IS one if the greatest collectors ever. ONE of the-NOT THE!
How does Mr. Simpson decide which coins to buy? I know he has patterns and proof gold---but does he collect series? does collect any coin that is special regardless of series? just curious what, if any, parameters he has?
FUN TOP 5
We are down to the final day before the FUN starts. These are the top 5 coins that from my observation would make significant improvement to Hansen’s HOF collection. I have no idea that he will bid on any of them. The first two are coins neeeded for the Hansen Quest. It will be interesting to see if he goes for either one.
The next two coins would be needed for the Major Variety set. As discussed before, Hansen neeeds about 60 coins. These two specimens would fit very nicely in his cabinet. The last one is a very rare proof. This coin is not needed in any PCGS sets, but if Hansen wants one of everything, he must have this coin. There is no other 1818 proof quarter available.
If you have a different opinion, please share. This is my list of TOP 5. You may have a different list.
Atwater-Eliasberg-Morelan 85
What else need to be said? This coin is countdown coin for the Eliasberg Quest, number #10 on my list. There are only 5 known. This is Eliasberg’s specimen and the finest known. Does not appear to be going cheap. Be interesting to see if Hansen really wants it. Enough said...
1827 Brilliant proof, exceedingly rare - one bought at one of the sales $225, and not so fine a proof as this. (Edward Cogan, 4/1867)
A very similar thought to the first coin. It is not as rare as the 1885 T-Dollar. It is a countdown coin, number #13 on the list. It is not the finest, but a very nice condition census specimen. A strong pedigree dating back to 1867. Very nice toning. What else could you ask for?
Ted Naftzger Chain AMERI. Cent
This Chain variety would be need if Hansen plans to complete the Major Varieties category. Why not get a really nice one. The coin has cross the $1M bid threshold. PCGS values the coin at $1,350,000. We don’t how what Hansen values it at. What the buyer thinks is only thing that matters.
Caldwell-Weinberg 1795 S-80, B-11 Jefferson Head Cent
This is another old variety that Hansen will need at some point. This is the finest 1795 Jefferson Head cent in collectors' hands. One slightly finer is in the ANS. Will this be the week that he fills that hole? We will see.
1818 Close date. Proof. Sharp, beautiful impression. Extremely rare thus. Plate VI.(Chapman 12/1890)
This last example is a very interesting coin. I am not sure if PCGS would recognize the coin as a proof, although, it has been recognized as a proof for about 125 years. This is the earliest proof quarter. One other is known, but is in the National Numismatic Collection at the Smithsonian Institution. That one is a much lower grade. This is just one of 25-30 early proof dimes and quarters that is in the FUN sale. It will be interesting to see Hansen’s desire for these early coins. They may not be on his priority list at this time. By the way, this 1818 proof is a PF67!
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I saw NO WAY on the 1885 TD. I Know 3 -yes 3 real players. Delloy would be happier I believe w/a lesser quality one to fill the hole ( I am NOT trashing that). But please......
And the jeff head-LOL.... he has ZERO shot. I know who the buyer will be. Bring it on (this buyer has never lost when he wants something).
Currin, you are making me light headed!
In case you missed it...
Paul Nugget is a new member of the DLRC team. I think this is good news for advice and assistance in the Hansen Collection.
https://coinweek.com/dealers-companies/david-lawrence-dealers/gold-coin-expert-paul-nugget-joins-david-lawrence-rare-coins/
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Another Old Dollar
I am breaking the norm a little with this update. Due the volume of inventory added to the Hansen Collection each week, mostly, we only see the finest. The majority of my updates are PCGS graded 1/0 coins. Many of the coins that may be one tick below don’t usually make the cut. I showed you two PCGS 1/0 Proof Liberty Seated Dollars last week. In doing so, I did not include this one. Over the past weekend, I looked at this coin and its history, and decided the coin was worthy of mentioning. Keep in mind, there are many coins like this one that never make the cut on this thread.
The new coin is an 1849 Proof Liberty Seated Dollar that is graded PR65 by PCGS. The coin is POP 4/1, so there is one finer and three other that are equal. This coin has the better pedigree (dated back to 1885) than the other three PR65s. The finest specimen is from The Phil Kaufman Collection and later the Greensboro Collection. It once sold for $230,000 in a 2008 auction. I think it is safe to say that the Kaufman Specimen is the finest known.
For a little history on the 1849, Q. David Bowers, in Silver Dollars and Trade Dollars of the United States (1993): Estimates the original proof mintage of 1849 Seated dollars at eight to 12 pieces, and a survival rate of five to eight coins. David Akers (1998) agrees with those estimates and indicates that he has been able to identify only six distinct coins, with the possible existence of another one or two specimens. Our research has uncovered eight different 1849 proof dollars, with some earlier citations that may be duplicates of the coins in the roster below. This list has an impressive list of Who’s/who of collectors that has been owners of the 1849 Proof Dollar: Kaufman, Garrett, Pittman, Lee, Starr, Eliasberg, Carter, Queller, and many others including now Hansen. Even though this may not be a POP 1/0, I felt it was too good not to show.
Roster of 1849 Proof Seated Liberty Dollars
1. PR66 PCGS Kaufman Collection -(Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2392, realized $230,000.
2. PR65 PCGS Hansen Specimen - J.C. Randall (W. Elliot Woodward, 9/1885), lot 73; Garrett Collection (Stack's, 3/1976), lot 266; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1679; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1514; Jack Lee Collection (Heritage, 11/2005), lot 2237, which realized $80,500; Exclusively Internet Auction (Heritage, 12/2005), lot 13665; Jack Lee Estate (Heritage, 1/2009), lot 3963; Bay State Collection, Part II (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 1151; Pittsburgh Signature (Heritage, 10/2011), lot 3877.
3. PR65 PCGS - Frederick Geiss (B. Max Mehl, 2/1947), lot 344; Floyd T. Starr (Stack's, 10/1992), lot 592; Larry Share Collection; Kennywood Collection (American Numismatic Rarities, 1/2005), lot 680; William H. LaBelle, Sr. Collection (American Numismatic Rarities, 7/2005), lot 1308.
4. PR65 NGC. Louis E. Eliasberg, Sr. - (Bowers and Merena, 4/1997), lot 2216; ANA Signature (Heritage, 8/1998), lot 8195; Rod Sweet Collection (Bowers and Merena, 7/2005), lot 1010.
5. PR64 NGC. Amon Carter Collection- (Stack's, 1/1984), lot 257; Queller Family Collection (Heritage, 4/2008), lot 2146; Joseph C. Thomas Collection (Heritage, 4/2009), lot 2590; Internet Coin Auction (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 26928; Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 9/2009), lot 938.
6. PR64 NGC - Kenneth C. Long (Bowers and Merena, 5/1995), lot 1219; FUN Signature (Heritage, 1/1996), lot 5638; Long Beach Signature (Heritage, 9/1997), lot 7170; Dr. John L. Pellegrini Collection (Heritage, 7/2005), lot 10264.
7. PR58 PCGS - Pittsburgh ANA (Heritage, 8/2004), lot 6368.
8. Impaired Proof - 65th Anniversary Sale (Stack's, 10/2000), lot 1240.
1849 Hansen – Garrett- Pittman Proof Dollar
As with most proof dollars of the era, The 1849 Proof dollar is very rare. The mintage given is 15. The known specimens usually given are around eight. This dollar last sold at auction October 2011, The Heritage Signature. At that time, the specimen was incased in a NGC PR65 holder and realized $66,125. The coin was described as being a boldly struck with excellent obverse and reverse details, including bold rims and borders, sharp head details, complete feather details, and sharp claws and leaves. The powder-blue toning is accompanied by traces of tan-gold and forest-green, with considerable remaining silver brilliance. The fields are fully mirrored around lustrous devices, with considerable cameo contrast. The obverse has a tiny imperfection within the triangular opening of the 4. Tiny projections or rust pits are attached to the tips of three dentils below and left of the 1. The reverse is the usual proof die that has two tiny defects on the right diagonal of the final A.
It appears this coin was offer for sale recently by Rare Coin Wholesalers. Lately, this company has been a constant supply for Hansen coins. The price listed was $141,000. We don’t know what Hansen paid, but PCGS places the value of the coin at $110,000. On their website, RCW did not offer a specific description of the coin, but did offer an interesting history of the Proof Dollars: The proof No Motto Seated Dollar series is one of the most difficult to collect in all of U.S. numismatics. From the series' inception in 1840 through 1858, the Mint did not record the number of proof coins struck each year. It is likely that very few examples were produced, particularly when one considers that there were hardly any numismatists active in the United States during the 1840s and 1850s. Although mintage figures increased markedly beginning in 1859, collector demand remained limited and many of the proofs struck from 1859 through 1865 were probably melted as unsold at year's end. The onset of the Civil War in 1861 resulted in considerable chaos in the Mint, reduced the already limited number of collectors and further contributed to the rarity of proof No Motto Dollars in today's market.
In comparing to Eliasberg, from his registry listing, he had an assumed grade of Choice Proof. The coin was sold by Bowers & Merena, April 1997 and realized $44,000. From the roster above we now know the coin is a PR65 in a NGC holder. Even though PCGS Coin Facts grade it as PR64 estimated grade, let’s assume Eliasberg to be a tie with Hansen.
1849 Proof Liberty Dollars PR65 (PCGS Gold Shield)
PCGS Coin #6990 / PCGS Serial #36659312 / POP 4/1
PCGS Price Guide: $110,000
Ex: J.C. Randall (W. Elliot Woodward, 9/1885), lot 73; Garrett Collection (Stack's, 3/1976), lot 266; John Jay Pittman (David Akers, 5/1998), lot 1679; Richmond Collection (David Lawrence, 11/2004), lot 1514; Jack Lee Collection (Heritage, 11/2005), lot 2237, which realized $80,500; Exclusively Internet Auction (Heritage, 12/2005), lot 13665; Jack Lee Estate (Heritage, 1/2009), lot 3963; Bay State Collection, Part II (Heritage, 7/2009), lot 1151; Pittsburgh Signature (Heritage, 10/2011), lot 3877.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
Hi Currin, Just got back from a very exciting platinum night auction and spent some time with the gracious Dell Loy. He was very excited and engaged with other collectors at the auction. Of your five suggestions for him to buy at the FUN show auctions, he bought the "Mr. Big" coin, the finest known 1885 NGC PR66 trade dollar. He almost bought its twin the 1884 trade dollar in an attempt to keep those near twins together. Bruce Morelan just posted that he bought the 1827/3 original in PCGS PR65 [noting that its as rare as a nice 1804 dollar at one-tenth the price!]. Thankfully, I was able to land the 1818 PR67 CAC unique proof quarter that is not part of any PCGS sets at present. I agreed with your assessment that its a fantastically important and historic coin. As a completist collector trying to master early American silver, it was a must have for my early quarter proof set. Dell Loy did buy a number of other early silver proofs which undoubtedly will begin to populate his set. Dell Loy's acquisition of the Eliasberg 1885 trade dollar to go along side of his 1884 PCGS MS67 trade dollar, now extends his collection further into super collector and an expanding historical context IMHO. I'm not sure where the other two coins, the 1793 chain cent or Jefferson head cent landed.
Congratulation on the 1818 proof quarter dollar which I think is a “Mr. Big” too. It is a very intriguing coin. I would love to see your MI set someday. It appears to be coming along nicely. Are you planning to cross the ‘18 over to PCGS? I think the significance of the coin would increase greatly if you can get PCGS to recognize it as the only private owned pre-1820 proof quarter dollar. I personally think it should be included in the early proof quarter PCGS registry set. It would put the coin squarely on the map, and also, you would be only one that can have a complete registry set! Which now you deserve.
Thanks for sharing your experience with DLH. I have never met him, and doubtful I ever will. I base my understanding on what I read and what others say. Sometimes, I get the feeling that he is not a completest. Did you get feeling he didn’t want the 1818, or did he want it, but you won the battle? If so, big victory! In reading his published comments, he has never claimed be a completest, although he was willing to pay a big price to complete the TD Proofs. Sometimes I see he is not interested in coins that he may never have another opportunity to purchase, i.e. your 1818 and the 1854-S. At times, he don’t seem (to me) to “need the must have” that you described in your personal pursuit. I find this very interesting and intriguing to watch. I know... I break my own rule: The thread is about the collection/coins and not the man.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I wonder if DLH read this post and took it as a challenge
Hi Currin, I think Mr. Hansen is in fact a completist as regards to the Eliasberg quest. His chief adviser, John B., is clearly helping to execute that plan. His enthusiasm for US coins is affecting collectors in every single series and I believe this is very, very positive for the hobby. He had only been at this for a relatively short period and despite not starting with an extensive major inter-generational set like Eliasberg, he has made amazing progress towards his goal. It's a reflection of the modern era of information flow and deep resources that allows such an attempt. I think some series will take more time to evolve than others. Of course the Hansen collection will have decades of more coins than Eliasberg as well. Some of the early specialist sets are of course difficult to build in shorter periods because of the 10 to 15 to 20 year cycle of availability of key coins, as is the case with proof bust quarters. Eliasberg only had about 40% of the proof quarters dates in his set and Pittman only 50% for example. I'm a more focused specialist and i'm going to try to complete this set. The progress yesterday was getting the two unique proofs, 1818 and 1823/2 under one roof and away we go! I think the very informative blogging and curating that are you doing as his set builds is awesome and enjoyable for the entire group of PCGS collectors. All of who are watching the Hansen collection building around us. Keep up the great effort.
Currin you’re a beast. Well done
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Gazes Challenge –Part 6
In this week’s update, we are comparing a grouping of quarters from 1796 to 1932. Again this week, as each week so far, the challenge has been very competitive. Hansen still holds a slight lead overall.
The first comparison is the 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle quarter dollar. Eliasberg had the special finish specimen, so he wins this one. The difficult 1870-CC quarter, Eliasberg again had a much superior specimen compared to Hansen. After that tide starts to turn with Hansen’s monster 1916 SL MS67FH. No clear winner of the overdate 1918/7-S. Hansen’s ends the day with another monster coin, his 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 2/0)
I am a little disappointed that “The Barber Quarter” is not on the list. I think the 1901-S would have been a great coin to include in this challenge, but the author of the grouping did not include it. Hansen’s 1901-S MS68+ is the monster coin for Barber Quarters. If you have not seen it, you should look it up on Coin Facts.
This week ended with a tie in the quarter dollar challenge 2-2-1. Hansen maintains his 4 coin lead. Next week challenge will be a nice slate of half dollars.
Quarters
1796 Quarter: First U.S. quarter dollar; one year type.
Hansen Coin: 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter PCGS MS63+ (PCGS POP 1/14)
Eliasberg Coin: 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter PCGS SP66
1870-CC Quarter: First Carson City quarter; earliest issue from this mint.
Hansen Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter PCGS XF40 (PCGS POP 6/5)
Eliasberg Coin: 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter EST.MS64
1916 Standing Liberty Quarter: Popular first year of issue; famous bare breast design.
Hansen Coin: 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS67FH (PCGS POP 5/1)
Eliasberg Coin:1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS65(PCGS POP 28/406)
1918/7-S Quarter: Rarest issue of this design; only overdated issue.
Hansen Coin: 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64 (PCGS POP 28/39)
Eliasberg Coin: 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64 (PCGS POP 28/39)
1932-D Quarter: Key issue in the newly-popular Washington Quarter series.
Hansen Coin: 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66 (PCGS POP 2/0)
Eliasberg Coin: 1932-D Washington Quarter EST. MS65 (PCGS POP 87/7)
Gaze Challenge
Quarters - Tie (2-2-1)
Overall - Hansen (10-6-3)
Winning Coins:
Eliasberg’s 1796 Draped Bust, Small Eagle Quarter
Eliasberg’s 1838-O Liberty Seated Quarter EST.MS64
No Picture found
Hansen’s 1916 Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS67FH
Hansen’s 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64
Eliasberg’s 1918/7-S Standing Liberty Quarter PCGS MS64
No Picture found
Hansen’s 1932-D Washington Quarter PCGS MS66
Next Week - Half Dollars:
1794 Half Dollar: First U.S. half dollar; rare low mintage issue.
1796-97 Half Dollars: Rarest U.S. silver type (Small Eagle reverse).
1815 Half Dollar: Rarest year of the Capped Bust design.
1836 Reeded Edge Half Dollar: Popular low mintage; first Reeded Edge issue.
1839-O Half Dollar: First collectible branch mint half dollar; obverse mintmark.
1870-CC Half Dollar: First Carson City half dollar.
1921-D Half Dollar: Rarest modern half dollar.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
The Eliasberg 1885 proof trade dollar now grades PCGS PR65+CAM and is included in the Hansen sets
Who got the Jefferson cent? Was Laura correct?
I bought the Jeff head.
I would have blown old Delloy of of the water on the 1885 if I had been on the phone w/my other customer (he had no gudiance). He did buy the 1884.
I am disgusted the 2 coins were not kept together. I consider it a lack of respect. I am angry that after all the work I put in, the pony I picked came up short and bought ZERO trade Dollars. BTW, Legend had 3 real bidders. I knew the first person to 3.3 would win it. Not a good start to a year.
JB, that’s an incredible 1863 eagle. > @specialist said:
Too bad you didn’t pick up the phone and call your client.
You are either blaming Dell for not buying the 1884. Or you’re blaming your client for not having the correct “guidance” on the 1885.
Heads Up
I am dedicating this week to Hansen Collection of Proof Trade Dollars. Tomorrow, we will start the discussion with the big FUN purchase. Later in the week, more discussions on the Proof Trade Dollar sets. Should be some good information. I am looking forward to learning more about these coins. I hope you enjoy as well. Any particulars you want to see in the discussions, just let me know.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
There was a strong push to keep the two trade dollars together during the bidding for what it's worth. Someone told me at the show that the two weren't always together. Perhaps someone knows more history there and it can added to the Hansen trade dollar set review.
Anyone know where Mr. Chain ended up? If it has been said, sorry but I missed it.
My 20th Century Gold Major Design Type Set ---started : 11/17/1997 ---- completed : 1/21/2004
I could not call my other customer. I had committed to someone else who bid $3.2 on the 1885. Believe me, I had a ton of wasted time and energy and was with the wrong pony.
Wonder if Delloy even knows its Trade Dollar....And FYI-there is a better on out there. I SAW IT.
The coins separated at the Eliasberg sale. I bought the 1885 in 1999. I bought the 1884 several years later to reunite them. I sold them as a pair to the consignor via JA and Heritage. So they’ve been together their entire life except about four years until now
How many 1884’s have you seen that are better than the Eliasberg coin? I already know you’re not a fan of the Starr coin as a 67, but where do you rank it?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It’s the best I’ve held in hand out of four
I HATE the PR67. Its UGLY......Just like I hated the MS68 78S.......
I liked the 84 in 66. Hansen can have his 5 min of fame on the 1885.. There is a better one
Shhhhhhhhhh