@TurboSnail said:
Someone at ebay is selling 1000 sets for $54,999.99 lol
There got to be a better way to ensure the general public has the chance to purchase a set without the hassle of skipping lunch or work.
May be a limited pre-order of 1 per account and no limit on/after release date?
Or a limit for the first day(s) then a higher limit for the first week then open it up to unlimited. If you can come up with a method to enforce limits and punish cheaters who have banks of order friends or employees post it here. Very difficult.
>
A pre order of 1 could work. You'd hear a lot of crying from the flippers but it would enable collectors to get one for their collections.
Never work. What happens when the pre-order number exceeds the number minted? (The 2015 Platinum Proof and the 2016 American Liberty medals comes to mind.) At that point, it isn't a presale. It's just moving the on-sale date up on the schedule, with no product to sell on the promised date.
Face it. If the Mint puts out a desirable product, it's going to sell out in a very short amount of time. That's just the way it is now. It comes from being able to order from wherever you are via smartphone/tablets, and the fact the PFSWeb's ordering system has no problems doing thousands of transactions per minute. You had absolutely no complaints from anyone who ordered within the first 5 or 6 minutes.
It is also the fault of Mint products becoming a staple of the flippers. And you cannot stop those willing to do a transaction with the mint for a sure couple of bucks from a dealer/TV huckster if they do put low HHL's on the product.
And to be honest, if the Mint does put a low HHL on a higher mintage than needed, semi-desirable product, and opens it up later (like this year's plat proof and previous years C&C sets and the gold quarter and half), they never sell out, and can stay on the web site for months. That sucks as a business model.
I get what you are saying. But you really think there would have been 225,000 pre-orders?
@TurboSnail said:
Someone at ebay is selling 1000 sets for $54,999.99 lol
There got to be a better way to ensure the general public has the chance to purchase a set without the hassle of skipping lunch or work.
May be a limited pre-order of 1 per account and no limit on/after release date?
Or a limit for the first day(s) then a higher limit for the first week then open it up to unlimited. If you can come up with a method to enforce limits and punish cheaters who have banks of order friends or employees post it here. Very difficult.
>
A pre order of 1 could work. You'd hear a lot of crying from the flippers but it would enable collectors to get one for their collections.
Never work. What happens when the pre-order number exceeds the number minted? (The 2015 Platinum Proof and the 2016 American Liberty medals comes to mind.) At that point, it isn't a presale. It's just moving the on-sale date up on the schedule, with no product to sell on the promised date.
Face it. If the Mint puts out a desirable product, it's going to sell out in a very short amount of time. That's just the way it is now. It comes from being able to order from wherever you are via smartphone/tablets, and the fact the PFSWeb's ordering system has no problems doing thousands of transactions per minute. You had absolutely no complaints from anyone who ordered within the first 5 or 6 minutes.
It is also the fault of Mint products becoming a staple of the flippers. And you cannot stop those willing to do a transaction with the mint for a sure couple of bucks from a dealer/TV huckster if they do put low HHL's on the product.
And to be honest, if the Mint does put a low HHL on a higher mintage than needed, semi-desirable product, and opens it up later (like this year's plat proof and previous years C&C sets and the gold quarter and half), they never sell out, and can stay on the web site for months. That sucks as a business model.
I get what you are saying. But you really think there would have been 225,000 pre-orders?
Probably not. But you are talking about a blanket policy that would extend to issues like the 2015 Plat Proofs and 2016 AmLib medals. And yes, they would have sold those out during a pre-sale. The 2017 Congrats set may have even sold out. (I know I'd have employed a few surrogates to get the coin, and the big boys would have done it in the thousands...)
The us mint is in the business of making money for the treasurey. They aren't fulfilling a constitutional duty to provide the great citizens of America a means to fill up books and boxes full of coins. They do the best they can and leave it at that. If you start putting all these crazy restrictions on coins there are going to be just as many more people complaining about that.
It sounds like most folks who wanted this coin were able to get it, that's the way it is supposed to work. The rest can purchase elsewhere if they really want to. It might suck but that's what works. I've been there and was bummed but I COULD have got what I missed out on.
If the US Mint were in the business to provide the great citizens of the USA coins as a right, they should never stop selling any single coin because someone born today might want one in 20 years and it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't buy one.
@CoinCrazyPA said:
Logged into the mint a 7:28 and they came up for sale again at 7:30. I tried to order a few and by the time i checked out they were gone.
Same here. They went fast. I got greedy and ordered 5. Tomorrow they might become available. Probably just order one if I can get it.
@smokincoin said:
The Coin Vault online is already selling PCGS FDI 70 and 69 sets @ $479 and $199 respectfully. thecoinvault.com/t-watch.aspx How are they making any money on these unless they're getting all 70's? 10 coins at $35 per coin to get graded is 350 + 30 for set cost
I am actually tempted to buy one of these 70 sets at that price. I don't see any competitor prices up except an ebay ngc 70 set for $499, so still can't decide. $48 per coin for a 70. Or buy an entire set for $48.
Edited. Did not buy, managed to buy from mint at regular price at 7 30 AM Aug 3 when they were available again.
I can't believe I missed out on this...with 225,000 I was in no hurry to buy one on the release day/time. Well, I guess I'll keep checking back, and see what happens. Lesson learned. Shoot!
Oh well, one more reason to be disappointed in the way the U.S. Mint treats the small collector, I'm glad I didn't want any.
Would it be great if the price feel below the issue price? Of course then the flippers would simply return them for a refund. It really sucks the way these guys have make "investments" with escape hatches.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I really hope the flippers eat it on this one, as the greed factor is just overwhelming. Ordered one each for me and collector friend on travel at 1203.
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars said:
I really hope the flippers eat it on this one, as the greed factor is just overwhelming. Ordered one each for me and collector friend on travel at 1203.
You should write to your congressman about every company making a profit. It's not fair that they did research, made a decision, took a risk, and potentially might make a profit.
@7Jaguars said:
I really hope the flippers eat it on this one, as the greed factor is just overwhelming. Ordered one each for me and collector friend on travel at 1203.
You should right to your congressman about every company making a profit.
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
@7Jaguars said:
I really hope the flippers eat it on this one, as the greed factor is just overwhelming. Ordered one each for me and collector friend on travel at 1203.
You should right to your congressman about every company making a profit.
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
The mint's distribution pattern still sucks. If you have job and don't have access to a computer or cell phone at the precise moment these things were sold, in the middle of the day, you are out of luck. I've been out of the corporate world for a long time, but even back in the '90s companies had the ability to monitor your computer activity. If you were stuck in a meeting or occupied with a project, the cell phone order could get by you too.
When the window of opportunity is so small, it’s unfair to working people. The mint’s world should not be centered around supplying flippers and coin dealers.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@MilesWaits said:
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
The fact that the Mint Releases get discussed on the forum is part of the problem it gives the flippers a heads up. It is forum etiquette no to discuss sales auction or otherwise until the sale is over,
I am in agreement that this offering could have/should have been handled differently, However, over the past several years we have seen every variation of ordering processes, and I think there have always been unhappy people. Mintage too high, mintage too low, sold out too fast, sold out too slowly, etc. I do not think there will ever be one process that satisfies everyone.
@JBK said:
I am in agreement that this offering could have/should have been handled differently, However, over the past several years we have seen every variation of ordering processes, and I think there have always been unhappy people. Mintage too high, mintage too low, sold out too fast, sold out too slowly, etc. I do not think there will ever be one process that satisfies everyone.
The solution is simple. Limit the number of sets per order to five for a week or so after the item is released. Then open it up to sell off the rest of the authorized mintage. At least give people a chance at a time other than in the middle of a workday.
Years ago, a coin dealer for whom I have little respect, explained how angry he was that he and his buddies had not had the opportunity to corner the market on the 1999 Silver Proof Set. That set, which was the first year for the State Quarter series, got bid up to over $300 at one point. Now it’s on the backburner at $75 or so.
This dealer was PO’d because the set order limit was set a five per household. According to him the sets were distributed to a lot of people which left him having to buy them from the public at high prices. “Poor baby!”
I had no sympathy for his position. As a dealer I bought my five, sold four of them and kept one for me. I could have made a lot money had I held all five, but I didn’t. I made my money at well under $100 apiece and was happy.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
@EagleEye said:
A trip to attend the ANA would have been a wise move.
I forgot that the mint was selling them at the ANA. That sucks. I guess they learned nothing from the baseball fiasco.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
Ok as I read the feedback, here is another solution for the mint to ensure everyone has a shot at the product. The only technical part is the allocation with phone orders without over stress the landlines.
Release a small batch of product every 5 mins.
For example, 225,000 produced:
Release 9000 units at 12pm EST and 750 units every 5 mins after. Within a 24 hours cycle all units would be available.
The solution is simple. Limit the number of sets per order to five for a week or so after the item is released. Then open it up to sell off the rest of the authorized mintage. At least give people a chance at a time other than in the middle of a workday.
I am lucky in that the noon timeframe usually works out for me, but I would be livid if it did not.
Best solutions (from my perspective, but others will disagree, such as that dealer you mentioned, and those who expect every mint purchase to be an investment that pays off): initial HHL limit, or mint to order for a specified period.
@MilesWaits said:
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
The fact that the Mint Releases get discussed on the forum is part of the problem it gives the flippers a heads up. It is forum etiquette no to discuss sales auction or otherwise until the sale is over,
This forum etiquette applies to auction sales but not to upcoming Mint releases, which have been a legitimate topic here since day one. Flippers would have jumped all over this set regardless of activity on this forum. Our pre-sale discussions enabled many collectors to obtain their sets directly without having to purchase them from the flippers. It likely reduced the number of sets the flippers were able to obtain.
Just received email that my sets were shipped. I ordered 25.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
@MilesWaits said:
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
The fact that the Mint Releases get discussed on the forum is part of the problem it gives the flippers a heads up. It is forum etiquette no to discuss sales auction or otherwise until the sale is over,
Phhht. This set was discussed in every coin blog and newssite.
If it wasn't discussed here, then you may as well be ATS and use their forum.
Strange, my second order (which was almost 2,500 orders AFTER my first order) has already shipped, with my first order still 'processing'....no CC issues, so, looks like FIFO is still not implemented yet.
@jessewvu said:
The us mint is in the business of making money for the treasurey. >
If that is true than they just screwed the Treasury because they left a LOT of money on the table for this set and the Congratulations set. Sounds more like they are in the business of making money for the flippers.
@jessewvu said:
The us mint is in the business of making money for the treasurey. >
If that is true than they just screwed the Treasury because they left a LOT of money on the table for this set and the Congratulations set. Sounds more like they are in the business of making money for the flippers.
The Mint Store isn't really tasked to make money, they're not to lose money. The profits from the products they sell has to cover all operating expenses, insuring the collector side of the Mint doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.
@jessewvu said:
The us mint is in the business of making money for the treasurey. >
If that is true than they just screwed the Treasury because they left a LOT of money on the table for this set and the Congratulations set. Sounds more like they are in the business of making money for the flippers.
The solution is simple. Limit the number of sets per order to five for a week or so after the item is released. Then open it up to sell off the rest of the authorized mintage. At least give people a chance at a time other than in the middle of a workday.
Absolutely agree, kudos to those who have the disposable cash to purchase 100 at a time.
There should be a HHL for the first week or so to give us "Regular Guy's" a chance too.
I'm very happy to have had the chance to purchase two for my collection, yes collection.
~HABE FIDUCIAM IN DOMINO III V VI / III XVI~ POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
The mint doesn't care who orders how many and who didn't get to order. The mint only cares that whatever product they sell, they get paid for.
The mint has absolutely no incentive at all that I can see wherein they would implement some sort of plan to level the buying arena and make purchasing anything from them "fair."
If you can't tell from this post, I'm kinda getting tired of reading about all this "got mine", "well I didn't" stuff. Life sucks, buy a helmet. Walk soft and carry a flamethrower. The early bird looks for worms. etc etc
AND get off my lawn you young whippersnappers! It's 4:30, time for my dinner!
You can order now. 3 separate orders for a total of 12. The sets may be from the ANA or they really are not sold out and still have plenty available until the dealers find out again.
Prices are not doing well either on ebay, so didn't go too hog wild, It might be a race to the bottom.
Comments
Got my two sets at 12:04. Order # USM05205386. Very easy.
40 per case.
manorcourtman is right. I saw FIVE different people with two wheel carts and STACKS of boxes.
I get what you are saying. But you really think there would have been 225,000 pre-orders?
Probably not. But you are talking about a blanket policy that would extend to issues like the 2015 Plat Proofs and 2016 AmLib medals. And yes, they would have sold those out during a pre-sale. The 2017 Congrats set may have even sold out. (I know I'd have employed a few surrogates to get the coin, and the big boys would have done it in the thousands...)
The us mint is in the business of making money for the treasurey. They aren't fulfilling a constitutional duty to provide the great citizens of America a means to fill up books and boxes full of coins. They do the best they can and leave it at that. If you start putting all these crazy restrictions on coins there are going to be just as many more people complaining about that.
It sounds like most folks who wanted this coin were able to get it, that's the way it is supposed to work. The rest can purchase elsewhere if they really want to. It might suck but that's what works. I've been there and was bummed but I COULD have got what I missed out on.
If the US Mint were in the business to provide the great citizens of the USA coins as a right, they should never stop selling any single coin because someone born today might want one in 20 years and it wouldn't be fair if they couldn't buy one.
Logged into the mint a 7:28 and they came up for sale again at 7:30. I tried to order a few and by the time i checked out they were gone.
Successful Trades: Swampboy,
Same here. They went fast. I got greedy and ordered 5. Tomorrow they might become available. Probably just order one if I can get it.
Box of 20
Fantastic!
I was lucky, got a box of 10 this morning. I've tried for these "second chance" opportunities before, this is the first time I got in.
I am actually tempted to buy one of these 70 sets at that price. I don't see any competitor prices up except an ebay ngc 70 set for $499, so still can't decide. $48 per coin for a 70. Or buy an entire set for $48.
Edited. Did not buy, managed to buy from mint at regular price at 7 30 AM Aug 3 when they were available again.
Box of 20
I can't believe I missed out on this...with 225,000 I was in no hurry to buy one on the release day/time. Well, I guess I'll keep checking back, and see what happens. Lesson learned. Shoot!
It looks like the flippers have bought them all.
Oh well, one more reason to be disappointed in the way the U.S. Mint treats the small collector, I'm glad I didn't want any.
Would it be great if the price feel below the issue price? Of course then the flippers would simply return them for a refund. It really sucks the way these guys have make "investments" with escape hatches.
I really hope the flippers eat it on this one, as the greed factor is just overwhelming. Ordered one each for me and collector friend on travel at 1203.
Well, just Love coins, period.
You should write to your congressman about every company making a profit. It's not fair that they did research, made a decision, took a risk, and potentially might make a profit.
Same responses for the a different product.
This set has been discussed for a month here on the forum.
Get in early or get left behind.
One guy here at the Denver ANA bought 4,000 sets.
The mint's distribution pattern still sucks. If you have job and don't have access to a computer or cell phone at the precise moment these things were sold, in the middle of the day, you are out of luck. I've been out of the corporate world for a long time, but even back in the '90s companies had the ability to monitor your computer activity. If you were stuck in a meeting or occupied with a project, the cell phone order could get by you too.
When the window of opportunity is so small, it’s unfair to working people. The mint’s world should not be centered around supplying flippers and coin dealers.
The fact that the Mint Releases get discussed on the forum is part of the problem it gives the flippers a heads up. It is forum etiquette no to discuss sales auction or otherwise until the sale is over,
I am in agreement that this offering could have/should have been handled differently, However, over the past several years we have seen every variation of ordering processes, and I think there have always been unhappy people. Mintage too high, mintage too low, sold out too fast, sold out too slowly, etc. I do not think there will ever be one process that satisfies everyone.
A trip to attend the ANA would have been a wise move.
The set looks great.
Radiant Collection: Numismatics and Exonumia of the Atomic Age.
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/showcase/3232
The solution is simple. Limit the number of sets per order to five for a week or so after the item is released. Then open it up to sell off the rest of the authorized mintage. At least give people a chance at a time other than in the middle of a workday.
Years ago, a coin dealer for whom I have little respect, explained how angry he was that he and his buddies had not had the opportunity to corner the market on the 1999 Silver Proof Set. That set, which was the first year for the State Quarter series, got bid up to over $300 at one point. Now it’s on the backburner at $75 or so.
This dealer was PO’d because the set order limit was set a five per household. According to him the sets were distributed to a lot of people which left him having to buy them from the public at high prices. “Poor baby!”
I had no sympathy for his position. As a dealer I bought my five, sold four of them and kept one for me. I could have made a lot money had I held all five, but I didn’t. I made my money at well under $100 apiece and was happy.
I forgot that the mint was selling them at the ANA. That sucks. I guess they learned nothing from the baseball fiasco.
Ok as I read the feedback, here is another solution for the mint to ensure everyone has a shot at the product. The only technical part is the allocation with phone orders without over stress the landlines.
Release a small batch of product every 5 mins.
For example, 225,000 produced:
Release 9000 units at 12pm EST and 750 units every 5 mins after. Within a 24 hours cycle all units would be available.
I am lucky in that the noon timeframe usually works out for me, but I would be livid if it did not.
Best solutions (from my perspective, but others will disagree, such as that dealer you mentioned, and those who expect every mint purchase to be an investment that pays off): initial HHL limit, or mint to order for a specified period.
(Duplicate)
This forum etiquette applies to auction sales but not to upcoming Mint releases, which have been a legitimate topic here since day one. Flippers would have jumped all over this set regardless of activity on this forum. Our pre-sale discussions enabled many collectors to obtain their sets directly without having to purchase them from the flippers. It likely reduced the number of sets the flippers were able to obtain.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Just received email that my sets were shipped. I ordered 25.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Both my order shipped!
But... Smartpost...
Phhht. This set was discussed in every coin blog and newssite.
If it wasn't discussed here, then you may as well be ATS and use their forum.
I join the shipped gang.
Strange, my second order (which was almost 2,500 orders AFTER my first order) has already shipped, with my first order still 'processing'....no CC issues, so, looks like FIFO is still not implemented yet.
Damn, that emoticon jump scared me...
IS THIS A KILLER FLIP OR WHAT??? RACKING UP THE PROFITS LIKE 15 BALLS IN A TRIANGLE
Ha! Love the bold capitals for subtlety
If that is true than they just screwed the Treasury because they left a LOT of money on the table for this set and the Congratulations set. Sounds more like they are in the business of making money for the flippers.
The Mint Store isn't really tasked to make money, they're not to lose money. The profits from the products they sell has to cover all operating expenses, insuring the collector side of the Mint doesn't cost the taxpayer anything.
Anything over that goes to Treasury.
Trump is making America great again
At 12:25 p.m. I received email that my set was shipped.
If you bought a few, no. If you bought a ton, like you can with a no household limit, then yes, a very nice profit indeed.
Order# 52033XX
Shipped!
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
Absolutely agree, kudos to those who have the disposable cash to purchase 100 at a time.
There should be a HHL for the first week or so to give us "Regular Guy's" a chance too.
I'm very happy to have had the chance to purchase two for my collection, yes collection.
POST NUBILA PHOEBUS / AFTER CLOUDS, SUN
Love for Music / Collector of Dreck
I saw a table selling them for $37. Not real bad if you missed the first day.
Stop Bragging!
Some of us are like moths at the porch light! We just cannot resist bashing our heads into that hot little orb!
The name is LEE!
Mine shipped as well.
MCM @ $99!
Well, just Love coins, period.
It's a race to the bottom!
The mint doesn't care who orders how many and who didn't get to order. The mint only cares that whatever product they sell, they get paid for.
The mint has absolutely no incentive at all that I can see wherein they would implement some sort of plan to level the buying arena and make purchasing anything from them "fair."
If you can't tell from this post, I'm kinda getting tired of reading about all this "got mine", "well I didn't" stuff. Life sucks, buy a helmet. Walk soft and carry a flamethrower. The early bird looks for worms. etc etc
AND get off my lawn you young whippersnappers! It's 4:30, time for my dinner!
Insert witicism here. [ xxx ]
Available again just got 10 and 5 mins later still available
You can order now. 3 separate orders for a total of 12. The sets may be from the ANA or they really are not sold out and still have plenty available until the dealers find out again.
Prices are not doing well either on ebay, so didn't go too hog wild, It might be a race to the bottom.
Box of 20