@BigDowgie said:
Can't explain it bro, that's why nickeljones and I are trying to find some experts and not amateurs.
Here is what I recommended:
Take a few photos of the date and letters of the legend at a little less magnification as the steps. I wish to see the surface of the coin, its relief, and the shape of the letters.
As has been pointed out, the die for this coin has several letters strengthened - a common practice on these coins. That suggests it is an authentic coin and I believe the touch up was done on a master die rather than on the single die used for this coin. If I'm correct, as TD said, with enough looking someone at some time should find a mate with or w/o the crazy steps.
Send the coin to NGC (Rick Montgomery) or ICG (Skip Fazzari). I respect Dr. Wiles but I should want one of those two authenticators to examine the coin.
I see the owner is having too much fun to take this advice; however, I'll give it again. Send the coin to Fazzari at ICG. He will consult with Rick and if necessary take the coin to the Summer Fun show and consult with Fred Weinberg.
As most of you know, images are a poor excuse to actual examination using a scope. I know Fazzari has been viewing coins using a stereo microscope for almost fifty years. I know for a fact that when he graded at NGC before starting the conservation service, he was the ONLY employee who was EVER allowed to have and use the microscope out on his desk consistently to examine coins in his grading tier. Microscopes were also used by him at NCS. Rick and Dave Camire and possibly Lange were the only others who had scopes to use when needed. Things may be different now as the quality of counterfeits has improved.
That said, the image of the steps look natural. IMHO, Nothing was done to this coin after it was struck. I'll go with TD and say the die was altered in some way either officially or not. The crazy steps are not due to damage to the die or coin either. Now, send the coin to ICG before July!
nickeljones is taking the coin to the Dalton, Ga Show this month for a few opinions. We will get some more pictures posted and get it submitted to NGC ASAP.
Thanks for the the opinions and advice! More to come!
@BigDowgie said:
nickeljones is taking the coin to the Dalton, Ga Show this month for a few opinions. We will get some more pictures posted and get it submitted to NGC ASAP.
Thanks for the the opinions and advice! More to come!
Good plan.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Agreed. Good plan. NGC bound shortly. Hopefully Brian Raines will be going to the Georgia State show, as well as the grading services. More pictures coming as soon as my laptop stops hating me.
@nickelJones said:
Agreed. Good plan. NGC bound shortly. Hopefully Brian Raines will be going to the Georgia State show, as well as the grading services. More pictures coming as soon as my laptop stops hating me.
He's usually there. Turn left after entering the bourse. He will be on your left against the wall. What days will you be there. I would like to see in hand as well.
I have some close pictures of the piece. What would be the best way to make them available for everyone?
Also, the coins weight is 5.0 grams. The specific gravity test were not consistent. Got a different number each time. The coin seems maybe a little brighter, I think the distilled water rinsed the dust off. I wanted to keep it as found but it was necessary to try the specific gravity test.
@nickelJones said:
Agreed. Good plan. NGC bound shortly. Hopefully Brian Raines will be going to the Georgia State show, as well as the grading services. More pictures coming as soon as my laptop stops hating me.
Brian should definitely look at this coin.
You Suck! Awarded 6/2008- 1901-O Micro O Morgan, 8/2008- 1878 VAM-123 Morgan, 9/2022 1888-O VAM-1B3 H8 Morgan | Senior Regional Representative- ANACS Coin Grading. Posted opinions on coins are my own, and are not an official ANACS opinion.
@Windycity said:
Any chance it could be counterfeit?
Everything in life is possible, but I would be utterly amazed if it was.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Excellent pictures. The "skin" on that coin is untouched. If this coin was altered after it left the mint, it was done many. many years ago and then ignored.
Let's try to find another coin with those die tooling marks in the letters, people!!!!!
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
With these close up images, it looks more like a modified die than a different hub. There are lots of areas that look like extreme die wear - bifurcated letters, shallow elements on the base of many letters. And yet, there are the bases of many of the letters that have stronger lines at their base which looks like a die modification. This brings us to the steps. If the die was extremely worn out the steps would have been super mushy. Perhaps the sides of the steps were sunk deeper into the die and the steps were scraped with a narrow tool, giving it the multiple thin steps we see.
She ain't that pretty way up close. A lot of things look peculiar but I have no experience with a Jefferson at this scale. I have been aware of the re-engraved dies, Obv. and Rev., for awhile but didn't need to get this close. I tried to get each image upside down and right side up. If there is a different view needed, just ask.
@nickelJones said:
She ain't that pretty way up close. A lot of things look peculiar but I have no experience with a Jefferson at this scale. I have been aware of the re-engraved dies, Obv. and Rev., for awhile but didn't need to get this close. I tried to get each image upside down and right side up. If there is a different view needed, just ask.
@nickelJones said:
Agreed. Good plan. NGC bound shortly. Hopefully Brian Raines will be going to the Georgia State show, as well as the grading services. More pictures coming as soon as my laptop stops hating me.
Nice photos...looks 100% genuine and unaltered by the new images. Brian is a good choice. Randy Campbell will be their with a scope at the ICG table. He is not as good as Brian is on varieties. Bill Fivaz will also probably be at the show. Randy will know as they often go to dinner at shows.
Interesting nickel. I noticed in the new close-ups a couple areas outside of the step area that appear to show lines with similar spacing. Maybe just the image, but could be worth taking a closer look at.
@Crazy4Coins said:
Interesting nickel. I noticed in the new close-ups a couple areas outside of the step area that appear to show lines with similar spacing. Maybe just the image, but could be worth taking a closer look at.
I'll repeat: Great images, the basic nickel looks genuine and I wish I owned it. Nevertheless, until a long-time PROFESSIONAL AUTHENTICATOR of Dr. Wiles caliber gets to study that coin under a stereo microscope (in controlled conditions) looking at the steps and surrounding surface, and then renders a straight opinion with no if's, maybe's, or perhaps (no decision is OK too...LOL), the piece is just an interesting curiosity. Looking at the piece at a coin show, BY ANYONE, is just another "band-aid."
Even with the new images, this nickel still befuddles me. It appears that there are three tiers with about 10 steps per tier making it more or less a 30 stepper or is it supposed to be a 5 step and the many horizontal line are just the riser part of the step? Man I don't know.
@Crazy4Coins said:
Interesting nickel. I noticed in the new close-ups a couple areas outside of the step area that appear to show lines with similar spacing. Maybe just the image, but could be worth taking a closer look at.
Interesting nickel. I noticed in the new close-ups a couple areas outside of the step area that appear to show lines with similar spacing. Maybe just the image, but could be worth taking a closer look at.
Here are some more pics of those areas. Dinolite in hand and through a Flip. The focal plane on this thing is crazy sensitive.
The latest images make the "steps" look like they were added/put on an existing genuine coin as one long, complete piece. Note the undercut edges at both sides and how they seem to float on the surface. That's what it looks like but I don't believe it...LOL.
Please, please, GET THE COIN TO A PROFESSIONAL AUTHENTICATOR at a TPGS. I'm dying to find out what they say. I'll guarantee that if you call ANY of the top four, they'll examine it FOR FREE just to get the publicity if it is found to be genuine!
PS. If the lighting makes the edge of the steps just LOOK raised in this newest image, and they are actually into the coin's surface and incuse at the edges, then we are possibly dealing with a stamped impression - either from a genuine "special" die or an alteration. Without seeing the coin, my opinion (except for the TPGS part) is just more worthless fluff!
I have this gut feeling that the experts with the grading services are going to call this 'Altered Surfaces' and the quest to find the truth will continue.
@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
Ask what L-b S means and how it may be relevant to revealing absolute truth. It is possible I may be completely wrong about this very esoteric and highly specialized area of forensics. Or don't.
Hello. Have we met? I've known Rick Snow for over 30 years, but do not know your name. I'm Tom DeLorey.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@EagleEye said:
I see a worn die that was reworked to extend be its die life. This makes sense to me for an individual die in 1938.
Notice the die wear in the field area near the rim.
IMHO, that die is nowhere near being worn enough to even be considered for retirement or relapping.
@WoodenJefferson said:
I have this gut feeling that the experts with the grading services are going to call this 'Altered Surfaces' and the quest to find the truth will continue.
I know at least one authenticator at ICG has seen this thread. He wants to see the coin. I agree with him that it does not have an altered surface. Send it to our hosts PCGS. Otherwise send it to IGG (authentication) and Lange (Varieties), Montgomery (authentication), and Camire (errors) at NGC will get to see it also.
@EagleEye said:
I see a worn die that was reworked to extend be its die life. This makes sense to me for an individual die in 1938.
Please detail exactly what rework you speculate occurred and how it was done pre-DC tig and needle plasma arc era. Thanks.
What I see is very sharp details on the steps - obviously, that's what we are all looking at here. The base of pillars are very ill-defined, while the sides of the steps (pedestals) are very sharp. I notice that the right one is thinner than the left one.
I think the die was worn out, leaving hardly any steps. It was taken out of service and reworked. The side pedestals would be sunk easy enough, but the steps would have to be sharpened too. This could be done by scraping the area between the pedestals. Because it was not sunk from the original design - it was done by hand, it looks like no other die.
The edge seems very sharp on the inner border. That could easily have been sharpened.
The late die state is shown by the bifurcated letters - the gaps on the inward facing parts of the letters.
Here we see some of this bifurcation has been reworked - at the base of the N and M.
This is simple work that could have been done in a short period. Since this is a San Francisco die, the work was done in San Francisco. There would not be the proper tools to rehub the die. It is a simple touch-up job.
@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
The areas requiring adding metal hard faced or hardenable filler metals, even precisely enough to reshape, truly have me scratching my head as to the "how", even with what I have to work with today.
Welding on and to hardened tool steel used for stamping dies isn't a simple thing even at the non-macroscopic level.
That nickel sized die would be a challenge today even using a CNC laser welder and even then, couldn't be replicated with 100% accuracy but, would have to be kentucky windaged by hand to hand-grenade close.
Have you seen the laser welders which use a Vision Engineering Lynx stereozoom head?
Check one out if you have rapport with somebody that has one to see the state of the art in reasonably affordable precision microwelding.
A hole in the wall pawn shop I stop by from time to time just got one making nearly a half a dozen of these units I know of within one hour of me.
You are looking at it wrong, there is no extra metal. You have to think in reverse - by sinking a die, you are raising the relief on the struck coin. I am not talking about working on the coin - it is the die that was worked on.
@EagleEye said:
I see a worn die that was reworked to extend be its die life. This makes sense to me for an individual die in 1938.
Notice the die wear in the field area near the rim.
They have seldom reworked Jefferson dies. This was first year of issue and they were doing things with serifs on obverse. The reverse was redesigned during 1939 with straight steps instead of the wavy ones from 1938.
The center of the steps is opposite a deep part of the hair, just above Jeffersons ear.
It would be interesting to determine if the middle part of the steps, is just lower so not completely filling the die.
@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
That is where we disagree. My 3+ axis spatial relationships processing is quite above average.
To touch up on the letters required removal of metal, yet in other specific areas, adding would be the only way possible compared to a "normal" die. The areas to the right of the stairs indicated in red would have required adding metal to result in those incuse areas, and possibly other areas.
And now my theory. Not of how the die was modified, but maybe why.
We know about the difficulty with the new, in 1938, Jefferson nickel. The weak steps were corrected, apparently, in the later part of 1939. That would explain why the 39's and 40's are found with both reverses. Nothing new there.
I propose (guess) to test possible solutions, retired dies were utilized. Why use current production dies, when others are available? As to the Mint where this testing occurred, we have the S mint mark to confuse us. Are/were retired dies returned to the Philadelphia mint?
I was thrilled about the possibility proposed by Mr. Nagengast, but the mid to late die state seems to be contrary to that theory.
Just a comment....it is not unprecedented to see a die altered at a branch mint. Look at the 1944-D half dollar with the designer's initials hand cut back into the die.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
@ICEBOXBERN said:
Bern N. here at invitation of Tom D. to join the postings.
As Tom already noted after he talked to me, I have never seen any Jefferson with a step area like this one discovered by nickeljones.
Some random thoughts:
1. The coin appears to be original, not altered or re-engraved.
2. If this was some sort of random die with a different design, why San Francisco and not Philadelphia? I posited this to Tom when I talked with him and he commented that it could have been accidentally sent to SF - a trial die, punched with the S along with many other working dies being sent to the SF mint. Certainly a possibility.
3. It is documented that the first approved design, after trial production, was modified. There are no known examples of the first trial production, all examples apparently being destroyed. Did a trial working die, with a step design as on the nickeljones coin, survive with a fate as posited by Tom in 2 above?
4. There were a number of submitted designs for the Jefferson Nickel. At least two, those submitted by Henry Kreis and Anthony DeFrancisci, had a reverse with 4 thick, straight steps (that count includes the porch and base step). We know that the mint discarded Schlag's submitted reverse and then apparently screwed around with the other designs resulting in a composite of several designs, giving no credit to the other designs. We don't know how far the "screwing" process went as far as trial dies and so on.
5. Historically speaking, anything is possible when it comes to the US Mint! This could even be a hand modification of a working die by someone with engraving expertise and idle time. After all, this was 1938, the height of the secondary depression of 1938-39 (if you don't know what that refers to, there were two depressions within the "great depression" just look at the mintage figures! - they verify what discerning economists have already concluded.) With the low 1938 mintages, there could have been a lot of idle time at the mints!
6. Seems to me that the first step is to authenticate the coin as genuine and have it in-hand inspected by folks with the necessary expertise like Tom. (Not me - I am not an authenticator!) And as Tom suggested, let's find
note to Rocco: Thanks for the "awesome" comment but, really, anyone can be an expert by studying lots of coins and then sharing what you learned with others. Next thing you know, some folks think you are some kind of expert!
note to nickeljones: you wondered how your discovery floated around for 79 years and be unknown. Well it can! If you've been around Numismatics awhile, these discoveries happen more frequently than common sense would predict!
ICEBOXBERN? A nickname well earned, I suppose, long ago. history-magazine.com/refrig.html
I thought you might like seeing this coin again;
But here's my 2 cents on the 1938-S, I think we would learn a lot from some US Mint records, what occurred back in the day. A lot a questions here could be answered. Where's Roger who was posting US Mint mintage records?
What they would have done to change those steps from wavy to straight would have started with the reverse plaster mold itself. From it, they would have made the reverse Master hubs (yes, I believe they made more than one) that would have made the master dies, working hubs and dies necessary to strike all the millions of coins for the next 32 years. I can't see all the necessary above work ignored from someone's idea of changing just one die. There's a much larger picture involved. The coin in question might have been someone's attempt,, an experimental one, out in the shop as suggested in changing just the steps, filling in the steps or compressing them in a die and not a hub instead of tracing and re-cutting an entire master hub. But it would have been interesting to have 1938-S nickels with straight steps
But here's another modified attempt made by the US Mint that gave us a few crude looking 1982 P and D nickels. But look at the extra thick letters and digits and an extra wide rim that can be seen here also which IMO, is an indication of an EDS strike. Aside from the fact most other details are mushy. The US Mint improvised with modifying some old dies to make the following coin while the master hubs were retooled in 1982.
Leon
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
@CaptHenway said:
Could somebody please post pictures of a normal 1938-S for comparison?
This picture got me thinking but am I the only one seeing 8-9 sections of the mystery steps under the steps in the top pic of the wavy steps? I tried copying and pasting the picture to my hard drive but was not allowed. I wanted to circle those areas.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
Comments
Here is what I recommended:
As has been pointed out, the die for this coin has several letters strengthened - a common practice on these coins. That suggests it is an authentic coin and I believe the touch up was done on a master die rather than on the single die used for this coin. If I'm correct, as TD said, with enough looking someone at some time should find a mate with or w/o the crazy steps.
I see the owner is having too much fun to take this advice; however, I'll give it again. Send the coin to Fazzari at ICG. He will consult with Rick and if necessary take the coin to the Summer Fun show and consult with Fred Weinberg.
As most of you know, images are a poor excuse to actual examination using a scope. I know Fazzari has been viewing coins using a stereo microscope for almost fifty years. I know for a fact that when he graded at NGC before starting the conservation service, he was the ONLY employee who was EVER allowed to have and use the microscope out on his desk consistently to examine coins in his grading tier. Microscopes were also used by him at NCS. Rick and Dave Camire and possibly Lange were the only others who had scopes to use when needed. Things may be different now as the quality of counterfeits has improved.
That said, the image of the steps look natural. IMHO, Nothing was done to this coin after it was struck. I'll go with TD and say the die was altered in some way either officially or not. The crazy steps are not due to damage to the die or coin either. Now, send the coin to ICG before July!
nickeljones is taking the coin to the Dalton, Ga Show this month for a few opinions. We will get some more pictures posted and get it submitted to NGC ASAP.
Thanks for the the opinions and advice! More to come!
Good plan.
Agreed. Good plan. NGC bound shortly. Hopefully Brian Raines will be going to the Georgia State show, as well as the grading services. More pictures coming as soon as my laptop stops hating me.
He's usually there. Turn left after entering the bourse. He will be on your left against the wall. What days will you be there. I would like to see in hand as well.
I'll be in Dalton Wednesday to Saturday.
I have some close pictures of the piece. What would be the best way to make them available for everyone?
Also, the coins weight is 5.0 grams. The specific gravity test were not consistent. Got a different number each time. The coin seems maybe a little brighter, I think the distilled water rinsed the dust off. I wanted to keep it as found but it was necessary to try the specific gravity test.
And I look forward to meeting you, Mr Shagnasty.
Brian should definitely look at this coin.
Any chance it could be counterfeit?
Everything in life is possible, but I would be utterly amazed if it was.
Excellent pictures. The "skin" on that coin is untouched. If this coin was altered after it left the mint, it was done many. many years ago and then ignored.
Let's try to find another coin with those die tooling marks in the letters, people!!!!!
With these close up images, it looks more like a modified die than a different hub. There are lots of areas that look like extreme die wear - bifurcated letters, shallow elements on the base of many letters. And yet, there are the bases of many of the letters that have stronger lines at their base which looks like a die modification. This brings us to the steps. If the die was extremely worn out the steps would have been super mushy. Perhaps the sides of the steps were sunk deeper into the die and the steps were scraped with a narrow tool, giving it the multiple thin steps we see.
She ain't that pretty way up close. A lot of things look peculiar but I have no experience with a Jefferson at this scale. I have been aware of the re-engraved dies, Obv. and Rev., for awhile but didn't need to get this close. I tried to get each image upside down and right side up. If there is a different view needed, just ask.
Can you have it available for in-hand examination at Central States?
Out of a circ set. It was the best looking coin in the book. Tried to get more information but no success.
Not sure about Shaumberg, probably not. I was hoping to get the coin submitted in Dalton.
Nice photos...looks 100% genuine and unaltered by the new images. Brian is a good choice. Randy Campbell will be their with a scope at the ICG table. He is not as good as Brian is on varieties. Bill Fivaz will also probably be at the show. Randy will know as they often go to dinner at shows.
Interesting nickel. I noticed in the new close-ups a couple areas outside of the step area that appear to show lines with similar spacing. Maybe just the image, but could be worth taking a closer look at.
The Whisker Cheek Collection - Top 50 Peace VAM Registry
Landmark Buffalo Collection
I'll repeat: Great images, the basic nickel looks genuine and I wish I owned it. Nevertheless, until a long-time PROFESSIONAL AUTHENTICATOR of Dr. Wiles caliber gets to study that coin under a stereo microscope (in controlled conditions) looking at the steps and surrounding surface, and then renders a straight opinion with no if's, maybe's, or perhaps (no decision is OK too...LOL), the piece is just an interesting curiosity. Looking at the piece at a coin show, BY ANYONE, is just another "band-aid."
Even with the new images, this nickel still befuddles me. It appears that there are three tiers with about 10 steps per tier making it more or less a 30 stepper or is it supposed to be a 5 step and the many horizontal line are just the riser part of the step? Man I don't know.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Good catch Randy.
MDR-001
Modified die reverse.
I > @Crazy4Coins said:
Here are some more pics of those areas. Dinolite in hand and through a Flip. The focal plane on this thing is crazy sensitive.
Might be going to Schaumberg after all. That's a long ride BigDowgie.
Please stop by my table and show me the coin. #404
The latest images make the "steps" look like they were added/put on an existing genuine coin as one long, complete piece. Note the undercut edges at both sides and how they seem to float on the surface. That's what it looks like but I don't believe it...LOL.
Please, please, GET THE COIN TO A PROFESSIONAL AUTHENTICATOR at a TPGS. I'm dying to find out what they say. I'll guarantee that if you call ANY of the top four, they'll examine it FOR FREE just to get the publicity if it is found to be genuine!
PS. If the lighting makes the edge of the steps just LOOK raised in this newest image, and they are actually into the coin's surface and incuse at the edges, then we are possibly dealing with a stamped impression - either from a genuine "special" die or an alteration. Without seeing the coin, my opinion (except for the TPGS part) is just more worthless fluff!
I see a worn die that was reworked to extend be its die life. This makes sense to me for an individual die in 1938.
Notice the die wear in the field area near the rim.
I have this gut feeling that the experts with the grading services are going to call this 'Altered Surfaces' and the quest to find the truth will continue.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Hello. Have we met? I've known Rick Snow for over 30 years, but do not know your name. I'm Tom DeLorey.
This would have caused other parts of the coin's design to show the additional strikes
IMHO, that die is nowhere near being worn enough to even be considered for retirement or relapping.
I know at least one authenticator at ICG has seen this thread. He wants to see the coin. I agree with him that it does not have an altered surface. Send it to our hosts PCGS. Otherwise send it to IGG (authentication) and Lange (Varieties), Montgomery (authentication), and Camire (errors) at NGC will get to see it also.
ICG is scheduled to be at Dalton for the Georgia State show. So I will be seeing them there.
Sorry EagleEye, I won't be able to get to the CSNA show. But I will be at the FUN, in Tampa next January, where I will be glad to bring it to you.
Thanks again to everyone for the sharing of ideas and suggestions.
@nickelJones
I tried to send you a private message but your name did not come up. Please write me so I can reply privately. Thanks
What I see is very sharp details on the steps - obviously, that's what we are all looking at here. The base of pillars are very ill-defined, while the sides of the steps (pedestals) are very sharp. I notice that the right one is thinner than the left one.
I think the die was worn out, leaving hardly any steps. It was taken out of service and reworked. The side pedestals would be sunk easy enough, but the steps would have to be sharpened too. This could be done by scraping the area between the pedestals. Because it was not sunk from the original design - it was done by hand, it looks like no other die.
The edge seems very sharp on the inner border. That could easily have been sharpened.
The late die state is shown by the bifurcated letters - the gaps on the inward facing parts of the letters.
Here we see some of this bifurcation has been reworked - at the base of the N and M.
This is simple work that could have been done in a short period. Since this is a San Francisco die, the work was done in San Francisco. There would not be the proper tools to rehub the die. It is a simple touch-up job.
You are looking at it wrong, there is no extra metal. You have to think in reverse - by sinking a die, you are raising the relief on the struck coin. I am not talking about working on the coin - it is the die that was worked on.
They have seldom reworked Jefferson dies. This was first year of issue and they were doing things with serifs on obverse. The reverse was redesigned during 1939 with straight steps instead of the wavy ones from 1938.
The center of the steps is opposite a deep part of the hair, just above Jeffersons ear.
It would be interesting to determine if the middle part of the steps, is just lower so not completely filling the die.
That why it is so interesting. Other dies from this period have been reworked. Better to rework a die than to discard it.
Adding metal to the die? That's not possible.
And now my theory. Not of how the die was modified, but maybe why.
We know about the difficulty with the new, in 1938, Jefferson nickel. The weak steps were corrected, apparently, in the later part of 1939. That would explain why the 39's and 40's are found with both reverses. Nothing new there.
I propose (guess) to test possible solutions, retired dies were utilized. Why use current production dies, when others are available? As to the Mint where this testing occurred, we have the S mint mark to confuse us. Are/were retired dies returned to the Philadelphia mint?
I was thrilled about the possibility proposed by Mr. Nagengast, but the mid to late die state seems to be contrary to that theory.
Just a comment....it is not unprecedented to see a die altered at a branch mint. Look at the 1944-D half dollar with the designer's initials hand cut back into the die.
TD
ICEBOXBERN? A nickname well earned, I suppose, long ago.
history-magazine.com/refrig.html
I thought you might like seeing this coin again;
But here's my 2 cents on the 1938-S, I think we would learn a lot from some US Mint records, what occurred back in the day. A lot a questions here could be answered. Where's Roger who was posting US Mint mintage records?
What they would have done to change those steps from wavy to straight would have started with the reverse plaster mold itself. From it, they would have made the reverse Master hubs (yes, I believe they made more than one) that would have made the master dies, working hubs and dies necessary to strike all the millions of coins for the next 32 years. I can't see all the necessary above work ignored from someone's idea of changing just one die. There's a much larger picture involved. The coin in question might have been someone's attempt,, an experimental one, out in the shop as suggested in changing just the steps, filling in the steps or compressing them in a die and not a hub instead of tracing and re-cutting an entire master hub. But it would have been interesting to have 1938-S nickels with straight steps
But here's another modified attempt made by the US Mint that gave us a few crude looking 1982 P and D nickels. But look at the extra thick letters and digits and an extra wide rim that can be seen here also which IMO, is an indication of an EDS strike. Aside from the fact most other details are mushy. The US Mint improvised with modifying some old dies to make the following coin while the master hubs were retooled in 1982.
Leon
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
This picture got me thinking but am I the only one seeing 8-9 sections of the mystery steps under the steps in the top pic of the wavy steps? I tried copying and pasting the picture to my hard drive but was not allowed. I wanted to circle those areas.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Not sure what you mean Leo... 8-9 sections??