Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
Obediently standing for a song to honor an inanimate object without critically assessing the merits of the gesture is the literal embodiment of "sheeple."
I couldn't put it any better than this. Excellent post.
David (and others): what would you have - a Pavlovian response to the presence of the Flag or playing of the Anthem? Would you have us all be lemmings? I love my country and I do stand in respectful silence with my hand or hat over my heart when the Anthem is played at a sporting event. But if future events or circumstances move me to do otherwise, then I absolutely will. I will not be forced to prove my love for this country or the ideals upon which it was founded just because tradition or a mob of USA USA USA chanters says I have to, the same way I don't have type "amen!" on Facebook to prove I love Jesus.
Seriously, exactly who are the sheeple here?
I think you are confusing the country with the politicians who are elected to run the country. Our country, the ideals it was founded on and the constitution that governs it will not change barring amendments to the bill of rights. The future events or circumstances that may change to move you to do otherwise would be the result of politicians, not our country or constitution. The nation and the elected officials are two different entities. You are not paying respect to a senator, supreme court justice or the potus when you take off your cap and stand for the anthem, you are respecting the things you mentioned above, respect for your country and the ideals it was founded on.
This is the reason CK's little protest is so misguided. He is upset with people and their actions and instead of specifying who he is protesting, he is showing disrespect to his country, constitution and armed forces.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
Does anyone here know where/when this custom/tradition got it's origin from? And why certain sporting events do not"require" it, i.e. Golf tournaments,Tennis tournaments,Bowling tournaments,Volleyball tournaments etc. Tennis might I just do not recall. Why some and not others?
Successful transactions:Tookybandit. "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others".
I'm confusing nothing. I'm not talking about laws or the people who make them. I'm talking about the ugly mood that already existed in the country that has been fomented and perpetuated by a certain man and the people that attend this man's rallies. I'm talking about hate-mongering. I'm talking about dangerous, ugly statements and those that encourage and cheer them. I'm talking about the refusal to dialogue and understand, but instead take up the mantle of judge and emphatically state, "you're wrong" and "you bring very, very little to the table", rather than simply saying, "in my opinion, you're wrong" or "I disagree with you, but let's continue to try to understand each other". Instead, those that are in opposition of your narrow-minded world view are just plain ol' wrong.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Originally posted by: craig44You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
And it appears you place more value in the symbol than you do the people who live under the shadow of that symbol, some of whom are marginalized, profiled and discriminated against. BLUEJAYWAY's sig line has a quote based on Orwell's Animal Farm, "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others." You, in my opinion, are not capable of seeing the real-world application in that.
I hate to say it, but there has been almost never a game where I hadn't seen numerous people sitting during the playing of the anthem because they had a lap full of beers or food. So they may be disrespecting Old Glory, but they are strengthening the roots of American Capitalism.
Originally posted by: TNP777 I'm confusing nothing. I'm not talking about laws or the people who make them. I'm talking about the ugly mood that already existed in the country that has been fomented and perpetuated by a certain man and the people that attend this man's rallies. I'm talking about hate-mongering. I'm talking about dangerous, ugly statements and those that encourage and cheer them. I'm talking about the refusal to dialogue and understand, but instead take up the mantle of judge and emphatically state, "you're wrong" and "you bring very, very little to the table", rather than simply saying, "in my opinion, you're wrong" or "I disagree with you, but let's continue to try to understand each other". Instead, those that are in opposition of your narrow-minded world view are just plain ol' wrong.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Man....you are the one with blinders on. You and the people who come into a city and riot and burn and destroy innocent people's property because a thug robs a store and attacks a police officer and tries to take his gun and gets killed in the process.
Who is wrong there!!?? And exactly where is most of the hate? I'll tell you where......it's in black homes where children are brought up to hate whites just because they are white and are causing all their problem.....when they should be looking in the mirror at the real cause!!
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
Originally posted by: craig44You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
And it appears you place more value in the symbol than you do the people who live under the shadow of that symbol, some of whom are marginalized, profiled and discriminated against. BLUEJAYWAY's sig line has a quote based on Orwell's Animal Farm, "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others." You, in my opinion, are not capable of seeing the real-world application in that.
You miss the point completely. unless you think there is a federal mandate to marginalize and discriminate against minorities, you have absolutely NO business protesting a symbol and anthem of that nation. I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country. Oh by the way, our country that is led by a minority president.
CK's protest is confused and misplaced. If he thinks some pd's are discriminatory, by all means, protest THAT pd. If he thinks an institution is racist, then protest THAT institution.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I'm confusing nothing. I'm not talking about laws or the people who make them. I'm talking about the ugly mood that already existed in the country that has been fomented and perpetuated by a certain man and the people that attend this man's rallies. I'm talking about hate-mongering. I'm talking about dangerous, ugly statements and those that encourage and cheer them. I'm talking about the refusal to dialogue and understand, but instead take up the mantle of judge and emphatically state, "you're wrong" and "you bring very, very little to the table", rather than simply saying, "in my opinion, you're wrong" or "I disagree with you, but let's continue to try to understand each other". Instead, those that are in opposition of your narrow-minded world view are just plain ol' wrong.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Again, I will abstain from political banter and I suggest you do as well unless you want this thread poofed.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Originally posted by: PSASAP I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
So, you must not have progressed to working on the higher logic skills yet at your middle school.
You don't get it kid and your making yourself look silly.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
So, you must not have progressed to working on the higher logic skills yet at your middle school. You don't get it kid and your making yourself look silly.
You're right, I have been terrible. I'll say ten "Our Father's" two "God Bless America's" eight "Hail Mary's" and ten "Star Spangled Banners"
And those that disagree with you might be of the opinion that you don't get it. And the beat goes on.
Maybe we can make real progress on issues like this if we stop saying the opposition doesn't get it and start actually listening to what one another is saying. My opinion is that one use of the issue as discussed in this thread is not at all interested in discussing anything.
David, my apologies for alluding to politics. Some people have jumped wholeheartedly into that arena in this thread, and I felt the point I was making necessitated the mention.
edit: not worth being bammed by getting personal. Apologies.
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Wrong again.
How about in south Africa in the mid 90's when the Afrikaners controlled the country despite only comprising 20% of the population?
It's called a dominant minority. There are many many examples.
Maybe you should make sure you have enough social studies credits to graduate. Your guidance counselor should be able to help
And those that disagree with you might be of the opinion that you don't get it. And the beat goes on.
Maybe we can make real progress on issues like this if we stop saying the opposition doesn't get it and start actually listening to what one another is saying. My opinion is that one use of the issue as discussed in this thread is not at all interested in discussing anything.
David, my apologies for alluding to politics. Some people have jumped wholeheartedly into that arena in this thread, and I felt the point I was making necessitated the mention.
No need to apologize. I like to talk politics too, but sometimes in a forum where no one knows anyone, things can get ugly. I just enjoy spirited debate. You make some good points and are clearly an intelligent person. No harm done.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
Originally posted by: craig44 It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE. I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag. You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
Kid, you have now jumped the shark. Go to bed.
I'm watching the Broncos game. I don't want to turn off the TV... It might be disrespectful.
Add Brandon Marshall to the bonehead list. He says he is not against the police, military or America after he disrespects a symbol of the military and America. Says he is against "social injustice" what a misguided guy.
Well, I guess 103 out of 104 players last night have a little respect. I'll take that.
And I can't stand NASCAR. Tried a few times to like it, but I can only watch so many left hand turns.
I guess you broke the stereotype with that post, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The movement is gaining traction, as more players and teams are making statements.
This seems the classier way to go especially on 9/11
Devin Taylor of the Lions
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Originally posted by: fergie23 Sports card collectors are overwhelmingly white men and given your posts in general it is a pretty sure bet but you never know I guess.
Robb
Originally posted by: craig44 Stereotype much?
Maybe you haven't been to a card show in the last... I don't know... ever? That's not a sterotype, it's a fact.
How best to describe what you see below? How about" Holy wall of text, Batman!"
I've read enough of this thread to see where people are coming from, and also can see where people on the Kaepernick issue are either willing to stubbornly hold on to their beliefs or are willing to dialogue or discuss. What follows is simply my opinion, which I will try to articulate clearly. I don't intent to offend or inflame - my sincere apologies if that happens. And I might ramble a bit, and one paragraph might not have a damn thing to do with any of the others. This issue, and others like it, invoke a lot of thoughts and I often struggle to put them down in cohesive order.
I'm an Air Force veteran - spent six of the best years of my life as a yute serving my country. Did a LOT of growing up and met some fantastic people that I still stay in touch with almost 26 years after I separated. As a veteran, I didn't take a single bit of offense to CK's action, nor do I for a second believe he intended to offend those currently serving or those that have served, nor was he or is he currently making a statement against the military.
I'm also a middle-aged white dude, and in my opinion I am absolutely incapable of clearly seeing or experiencing the institutional and subtle racism that exists in this country, and I 100% believe that it does still exist. I can see it a little, but not to the level that non-whites do. I like to think that I am empathetic to others, but I also cannot deny that the color of my skin allows me to walk through doors (not literal doors, but opportunities and life experience issues) more easily than 'people of color'.
Immigration is a hot-button topic right now, and so I think we can be predisposed to assume certain things when we hear someone speaking Spanish. But who am I to judge anything? I don't know that person's story, who they are, what they believe, how (or if) they sacrifice for their loved ones, what they struggle with, etc. Same with a young black man walking down the street. Maybe he's a punk, but he's probably not. And if he's a punk, how did he get that way? Was he beaten down by a system I'm incapable of seeing or understanding because I was born with white skin? Perhaps. Or perhaps he was surrounded by bad people and influenced into making poor choices. Or perhaps he's just a young black man who dresses and talks differently than me because that's the culture he's comfortable with.
I guess my point is that we as a country and society are too quick to form an opinion and defend it to the death without taking the time to slow down and see if there's something more to the (insert controversial issue here) story. To me, it looks like once the initial furor died down a little and CK had the opportunity to flesh out why he did what he did and actually listened to the man, they were able to at the very least walk away with the understanding that he's not some uninformed punk who's trying to grab some attention without any real idea why he's doing what he's doing.
Okay, I'll close this out... I think. I admit that I've never been a CK fan - I always thought he was an immature punk, blessed with an amazing talent but not much of brain - but that's not so different than the stereotypical athlete in that respect, right?. Plus, he's a 49er, so that automatically makes him a douche! BUT... what does it matter that he's grown an afro, or that 'he's trying to look more black'? Seriously, who gives a (insert expletive here)? What does that have to do with anything? That's a perfect example of institutional racism right there. Fact is, he IS black... so I guess he has the right to LOOK black. So just stop with that argument.
So out of nowhere CK makes this stand. It's hugely unpopular and sparks intense debate. "Where did this come from?" "What right does this multi-millionaire athlete have to disrespect the flag/the country/the military/etc?." "Get of the country and go somewhere else." And much, much more.
"Where did this come from?" I dunno, but I'm going to guess that the young man has done some growing up and has the presence of mind to look around with new eyes and see some things he maybe took for granted while growing up in relative comfort in central Cali (CK grew up about 20 miles away from me, btw). Yeah, he had white adoptive parents, but the reality is that he's a man of color, and has witnessed the events in this country in the past few years (like we all have) and has seen oppression and injustice - oppression and injustice that I, as a middle aged white dude, don't have the automatic ability to see. Did he see that oppression/injustice before? I'm guessing he didn't, but now he does. Maybe he's developed the ability to see outside himself, or has changed his mind on certain things. I certainly was a much different man at 28 (which is CK's age now) than I did when I was 24, and I'm a MUCH different man at 49 than I was at 40. My worldview is much different, and I'm trying to not judge others so quickly. Not always successful, but I'm trying. Maybe, just maybe, that's the direction CK is heading.
"What right does this multi-millionaire athlete have to disrespect the flag/the country/the military/etc?." Every right. Others may not like it, but the millions that have served this country, and the hundreds of thousands that have given their lives for it, have guaranteed him (and everyone else with an opinion) the right to speak, or to act as they see fit - even if it's hugely unpopular. And besides, I don't really think anyone with the capability of rational thought believes he intended to slight the military, past or present. So stop that, too.
Okay, now I'll close. If nothing else were to come out of this, I think just the fact that we're talking about these things is good. We NEED to talk about uncomfortable things, but ONLY if we're willing to have a rational conversation. I need to allow someone who believes differently from me to speak without interruption and actually listen to what (s)he's saying, and in return I should have the same courtesy. And then we continue to talk and do our best to at the very least understand where we're coming from. But instead we draw our lines in the sand and defend our point of view to the death. Yeah, that solves things.
eta: one of my all time favorite songs is What It's Like by Everlast. It came on the radio as I was composing one of the final paragraphs - I thought it was perfect timing given the subject at hand. It reminds me to consider points of view outside my own comfortable beliefs. We've all seen a man at the liquor store beggin' for your change The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked, and full of mange He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes "Get a job you ****ing slob, " is all he replies God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues
Then you really might know what it's like (x4)
Perhaps we can all take a minute to imagine walking in another's shoes.
Dang G, I didnt know that. Thank you for protecting my freedoms. I wish I would of known you were a vet when we met in Chicago. I would have insisted on buying you a beer!!
I really cant comment on this situation because my thoughts would be too strong for this board. Just wanted to give a shout out to you and everyone else who has served our country!
Originally posted by: craig44 Classless to pull these little stunts on 9/11. It is just so cool to join a movement. Some people are just hopelessly clueless.
You are wasting your time man. These people just want to whine and blame everyone else for their problems!
Nice to see 102 out of the 106 players in tonight's Rams-Niners game stand for the anthem without fanfare.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
There would have been more players who joined the protest on Sunday if they weren't worried about losing endorsement deals. Brandon Marshall already lost two deals, and he was probably well aware that was a likely outcome of his actions. That he did it anyway shows that his beliefs mean more to him than money.
There would have been more players who joined the protest on Sunday if they weren't worried about losing endorsement deals. Brandon Marshall already lost two deals, and he was probably well aware that was a likely outcome of his actions. That he did it anyway shows that his beliefs mean more to him than money.
However misguided those beliefs may be. Do you think there may be a reason he lost those endorsement deals? Do you think it could be that his little protest is misguided and he is in the wrong?
As was mentioned in the college thread, much of these little protests are little more than a weak attempt at self aggrandizement. Coddled athletes who just can't get enough of the spotlight
In the not so distant past, the lunch counters at Woolworth's were segregated. When three students, one black woman, and a white man and woman who were sympathetic to the cause, staged a peaceful protest by defying the rules of the time, they were met with a great deal of hostility and violence. A simple demand to be treated as a human being was met with an inordinate amount of resistance. Some Americans do not take simple protests lightly, and the ones who put up the biggest fight stand on the wrong side of history.
Comments
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
Obediently standing for a song to honor an inanimate object without critically assessing the merits of the gesture is the literal embodiment of "sheeple."
I couldn't put it any better than this. Excellent post.
David (and others): what would you have - a Pavlovian response to the presence of the Flag or playing of the Anthem? Would you have us all be lemmings? I love my country and I do stand in respectful silence with my hand or hat over my heart when the Anthem is played at a sporting event. But if future events or circumstances move me to do otherwise, then I absolutely will. I will not be forced to prove my love for this country or the ideals upon which it was founded just because tradition or a mob of USA USA USA chanters says I have to, the same way I don't have type "amen!" on Facebook to prove I love Jesus.
Seriously, exactly who are the sheeple here?
I think you are confusing the country with the politicians who are elected to run the country. Our country, the ideals it was founded on and the constitution that governs it will not change barring amendments to the bill of rights. The future events or circumstances that may change to move you to do otherwise would be the result of politicians, not our country or constitution. The nation and the elected officials are two different entities. You are not paying respect to a senator, supreme court justice or the potus when you take off your cap and stand for the anthem, you are respecting the things you mentioned above, respect for your country and the ideals it was founded on.
This is the reason CK's little protest is so misguided. He is upset with people and their actions and instead of specifying who he is protesting, he is showing disrespect to his country, constitution and armed forces.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
And it appears you place more value in the symbol than you do the people who live under the shadow of that symbol, some of whom are marginalized, profiled and discriminated against. BLUEJAYWAY's sig line has a quote based on Orwell's Animal Farm, "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others." You, in my opinion, are not capable of seeing the real-world application in that.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I'm confusing nothing. I'm not talking about laws or the people who make them. I'm talking about the ugly mood that already existed in the country that has been fomented and perpetuated by a certain man and the people that attend this man's rallies. I'm talking about hate-mongering. I'm talking about dangerous, ugly statements and those that encourage and cheer them. I'm talking about the refusal to dialogue and understand, but instead take up the mantle of judge and emphatically state, "you're wrong" and "you bring very, very little to the table", rather than simply saying, "in my opinion, you're wrong" or "I disagree with you, but let's continue to try to understand each other". Instead, those that are in opposition of your narrow-minded world view are just plain ol' wrong.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Man....you are the one with blinders on. You and the people who come into a city and riot and burn and destroy innocent people's property because a thug robs a store and attacks a police officer and tries to take his gun and gets killed in the process.
Who is wrong there!!?? And exactly where is most of the hate? I'll tell you where......it's in black homes where children are brought up to hate whites just because they are white and are causing all their problem.....when they should be looking in the mirror at the real cause!!
link
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
And it appears you place more value in the symbol than you do the people who live under the shadow of that symbol, some of whom are marginalized, profiled and discriminated against. BLUEJAYWAY's sig line has a quote based on Orwell's Animal Farm, "Everyone is equal, some are more equal than others." You, in my opinion, are not capable of seeing the real-world application in that.
You miss the point completely. unless you think there is a federal mandate to marginalize and discriminate against minorities, you have absolutely NO business protesting a symbol and anthem of that nation. I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country. Oh by the way, our country that is led by a minority president.
CK's protest is confused and misplaced. If he thinks some pd's are discriminatory, by all means, protest THAT pd. If he thinks an institution is racist, then protest THAT institution.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I'm confusing nothing. I'm not talking about laws or the people who make them. I'm talking about the ugly mood that already existed in the country that has been fomented and perpetuated by a certain man and the people that attend this man's rallies. I'm talking about hate-mongering. I'm talking about dangerous, ugly statements and those that encourage and cheer them. I'm talking about the refusal to dialogue and understand, but instead take up the mantle of judge and emphatically state, "you're wrong" and "you bring very, very little to the table", rather than simply saying, "in my opinion, you're wrong" or "I disagree with you, but let's continue to try to understand each other". Instead, those that are in opposition of your narrow-minded world view are just plain ol' wrong.
You keep saying that CK was disrespectful to the country, Constitution and armed forces. Have you listened to a damn thing CK has said? It had NOTHING to do with ANY of those things. Good grief, man, take off your blinders, clean out your ears and actually listen to what he and others are saying.
Again, I will abstain from political banter and I suggest you do as well unless you want this thread poofed.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Wrong again
Ever hear of affirmative action?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Wrong again
Ever hear of affirmative action?
LOL
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
So, you must not have progressed to working on the higher logic skills yet at your middle school.
You don't get it kid and your making yourself look silly.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
So, you must not have progressed to working on the higher logic skills yet at your middle school.
You don't get it kid and your making yourself look silly.
You're right, I have been terrible. I'll say ten "Our Father's" two "God Bless America's" eight "Hail Mary's" and ten "Star Spangled Banners"
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
Maybe we can make real progress on issues like this if we stop saying the opposition doesn't get it and start actually listening to what one another is saying. My opinion is that one use of the issue as discussed in this thread is not at all interested in discussing anything.
David, my apologies for alluding to politics. Some people have jumped wholeheartedly into that arena in this thread, and I felt the point I was making necessitated the mention.
edit: not worth being bammed by getting personal. Apologies.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Ever read about the legal case Regents of the University of California v. Bakke?
link
I would be so bold to say that minorities are actually given a leg up in some situations by our country.
You are so bold, don't confuse that with intelligence. There is absolutely no instance in which a minority group has ever been given an advantage over the dominant population.
Wrong again.
How about in south Africa in the mid 90's when the Afrikaners controlled the country despite only comprising 20% of the population?
It's called a dominant minority. There are many many examples.
Maybe you should make sure you have enough social studies credits to graduate. Your guidance counselor should be able to help
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
And those that disagree with you might be of the opinion that you don't get it. And the beat goes on.
Maybe we can make real progress on issues like this if we stop saying the opposition doesn't get it and start actually listening to what one another is saying. My opinion is that one use of the issue as discussed in this thread is not at all interested in discussing anything.
David, my apologies for alluding to politics. Some people have jumped wholeheartedly into that arena in this thread, and I felt the point I was making necessitated the mention.
No need to apologize. I like to talk politics too, but sometimes in a forum where no one knows anyone, things can get ugly. I just enjoy spirited debate. You make some good points and are clearly an intelligent person. No harm done.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
+1000.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
Kid, you have now jumped the shark. Go to bed.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
It is our national flag. It is not a state, city or town flag. It is not a corporate flag. It does not represent a sports team or a religion. It also does not represent any police department, state or local. It is a national flag. One can say it represents the armed forces that protect our nation. It does not represent a civilian police force. I'm sorry if you disagree, but you would be wrong. If CK wants to protest a specific police force, then he should do exactly that and not disrespect a flag that has nothing to do with a police force. If he wants to protest institutional racism, then specify which institution is in the wrong. He is clearly misguided in what he is doing (it seems his significant other could be behind his actions of late)
It is an inanimate object, you cannot disrespect it. It has no feelings. It does not care whether Colin Kaepernick sits, kneels or stands.
You have to be joking right? The flag is a symbol. The same way that a star of David, crucifix or a swastika is. The physical object itself holds little importance.
You group the American flag with the Swastika, and you're wondering why Colin Kaepernick doesn't pray to it?
I am starting to believe your lightbulb burns a bit dim. It is called an EXAMPLE.
I NEVER said anyone should pray to the flag.
You are really stretching here
You walk into a grand room, at the very top of the room lays a piece of fabric. A man wearing a peculiar outfit walks up to you and says, "this is a grand symbol, you must remove your hat." You remove your hat. "Please, this fabric deserves respect, stand at attention." You straighten up a bit. "Our most respectful guests place their hand over their heart." For some reason, you place your hand over your heart. "Now we are going to play our most sacred song, please be respectful." The song plays and the man next to you is mouthing the words while it plays.
If that's not a prayer I don't know what is.
You Sir (I use the term loosely) still don't get it and are being disrespectful with your sarcasm!
The calamity!!!! I hope this flag doesn't get too upset by my remarks. I am being so disrespectful to this piece of fabric.
This is like arguing with a 3rd grader. It's a waste of my time.
Says the guy who talks to cotton...
I have some old clothes if you need something to salute.
Kid, you have now jumped the shark. Go to bed.
I'm watching the Broncos game. I don't want to turn off the TV... It might be disrespectful.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
Ok this is getting ridiculous with the quotes going 10 levels deep.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
JHS, for some weird reason you are starting to grow on me.
Must be my cunning wit and steadfast patriotism.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." Dr. Seuss
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
And I can't stand NASCAR. Tried a few times to like it, but I can only watch so many left hand turns.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Well, I guess 103 out of 104 players last night have a little respect. I'll take that.
And I can't stand NASCAR. Tried a few times to like it, but I can only watch so many left hand turns.
I guess you broke the stereotype with that post, lol..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The movement is gaining traction, as more players and teams are making statements.
This seems the classier way to go especially on 9/11
Devin Taylor of the Lions
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Sports card collectors are overwhelmingly white men and given your posts in general it is a pretty sure bet but you never know I guess.
Robb
Stereotype much?
Maybe you haven't been to a card show in the last... I don't know... ever? That's not a sterotype, it's a fact.
How best to describe what you see below? How about" Holy wall of text, Batman!"
I've read enough of this thread to see where people are coming from, and also can see where people on the Kaepernick issue are either willing to stubbornly hold on to their beliefs or are willing to dialogue or discuss. What follows is simply my opinion, which I will try to articulate clearly. I don't intent to offend or inflame - my sincere apologies if that happens. And I might ramble a bit, and one paragraph might not have a damn thing to do with any of the others. This issue, and others like it, invoke a lot of thoughts and I often struggle to put them down in cohesive order.
I'm an Air Force veteran - spent six of the best years of my life as a yute serving my country. Did a LOT of growing up and met some fantastic people that I still stay in touch with almost 26 years after I separated. As a veteran, I didn't take a single bit of offense to CK's action, nor do I for a second believe he intended to offend those currently serving or those that have served, nor was he or is he currently making a statement against the military.
I'm also a middle-aged white dude, and in my opinion I am absolutely incapable of clearly seeing or experiencing the institutional and subtle racism that exists in this country, and I 100% believe that it does still exist. I can see it a little, but not to the level that non-whites do. I like to think that I am empathetic to others, but I also cannot deny that the color of my skin allows me to walk through doors (not literal doors, but opportunities and life experience issues) more easily than 'people of color'.
Immigration is a hot-button topic right now, and so I think we can be predisposed to assume certain things when we hear someone speaking Spanish. But who am I to judge anything? I don't know that person's story, who they are, what they believe, how (or if) they sacrifice for their loved ones, what they struggle with, etc. Same with a young black man walking down the street. Maybe he's a punk, but he's probably not. And if he's a punk, how did he get that way? Was he beaten down by a system I'm incapable of seeing or understanding because I was born with white skin? Perhaps. Or perhaps he was surrounded by bad people and influenced into making poor choices. Or perhaps he's just a young black man who dresses and talks differently than me because that's the culture he's comfortable with.
I guess my point is that we as a country and society are too quick to form an opinion and defend it to the death without taking the time to slow down and see if there's something more to the (insert controversial issue here) story. To me, it looks like once the initial furor died down a little and CK had the opportunity to flesh out why he did what he did and actually listened to the man, they were able to at the very least walk away with the understanding that he's not some uninformed punk who's trying to grab some attention without any real idea why he's doing what he's doing.
Okay, I'll close this out... I think. I admit that I've never been a CK fan - I always thought he was an immature punk, blessed with an amazing talent but not much of brain - but that's not so different than the stereotypical athlete in that respect, right?. Plus, he's a 49er, so that automatically makes him a douche!
So out of nowhere CK makes this stand. It's hugely unpopular and sparks intense debate. "Where did this come from?" "What right does this multi-millionaire athlete have to disrespect the flag/the country/the military/etc?." "Get of the country and go somewhere else." And much, much more.
"Where did this come from?" I dunno, but I'm going to guess that the young man has done some growing up and has the presence of mind to look around with new eyes and see some things he maybe took for granted while growing up in relative comfort in central Cali (CK grew up about 20 miles away from me, btw). Yeah, he had white adoptive parents, but the reality is that he's a man of color, and has witnessed the events in this country in the past few years (like we all have) and has seen oppression and injustice - oppression and injustice that I, as a middle aged white dude, don't have the automatic ability to see. Did he see that oppression/injustice before? I'm guessing he didn't, but now he does. Maybe he's developed the ability to see outside himself, or has changed his mind on certain things. I certainly was a much different man at 28 (which is CK's age now) than I did when I was 24, and I'm a MUCH different man at 49 than I was at 40. My worldview is much different, and I'm trying to not judge others so quickly. Not always successful, but I'm trying. Maybe, just maybe, that's the direction CK is heading.
"What right does this multi-millionaire athlete have to disrespect the flag/the country/the military/etc?." Every right. Others may not like it, but the millions that have served this country, and the hundreds of thousands that have given their lives for it, have guaranteed him (and everyone else with an opinion) the right to speak, or to act as they see fit - even if it's hugely unpopular. And besides, I don't really think anyone with the capability of rational thought believes he intended to slight the military, past or present. So stop that, too.
Okay, now I'll close. If nothing else were to come out of this, I think just the fact that we're talking about these things is good. We NEED to talk about uncomfortable things, but ONLY if we're willing to have a rational conversation. I need to allow someone who believes differently from me to speak without interruption and actually listen to what (s)he's saying, and in return I should have the same courtesy. And then we continue to talk and do our best to at the very least understand where we're coming from. But instead we draw our lines in the sand and defend our point of view to the death. Yeah, that solves things.
eta: one of my all time favorite songs is What It's Like by Everlast. It came on the radio as I was composing one of the final paragraphs - I thought it was perfect timing given the subject at hand. It reminds me to consider points of view outside my own comfortable beliefs.
We've all seen a man at the liquor store beggin' for your change
The hair on his face is dirty, dread-locked, and full of mange
He asks a man for what he could spare, with shame in his eyes
"Get a job you ****ing slob, " is all he replies
God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes
Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues
Then you really might know what it's like (x4)
Perhaps we can all take a minute to imagine walking in another's shoes.
Dang G, I didnt know that. Thank you for protecting my freedoms. I wish I would of known you were a vet when we met in Chicago. I would have insisted on buying you a beer!!
I really cant comment on this situation because my thoughts would be too strong for this board. Just wanted to give a shout out to you and everyone else who has served our country!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Classless to pull these little stunts on 9/11. It is just so cool to join a movement. Some people are just hopelessly clueless.
You are wasting your time man. These people just want to whine and blame everyone else for their problems!
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Nice to see 102 out of the 106 players in tonight's Rams-Niners game stand for the anthem without fanfare.
mark
+1
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
There would have been more players who joined the protest on Sunday if they weren't worried about losing endorsement deals. Brandon Marshall already lost two deals, and he was probably well aware that was a likely outcome of his actions. That he did it anyway shows that his beliefs mean more to him than money.
However misguided those beliefs may be. Do you think there may be a reason he lost those endorsement deals? Do you think it could be that his little protest is misguided and he is in the wrong?
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.