Very nice pet photos! I like both dogs and cats though cats are usually pretty aloof compared to dogs.
My Shepherd loved the snow.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Because Botham Jean, who was killed in his own apartment by an officer who thought she was in her apartment. She first claimed the door was locked, then that the door was partially open, then that she gave him verbal commands that he didn't obey - because he was in his own place and didn't have to obey commands from an off-duty officer who didn't have a warrant or exigent circumstances.
I read Botham Jean and thought right away of Michael Jackson's song. He perhaps could have done a tribute song to her, but no, a black doctor killed the king of pop, and served time in jail for it.
You seem to want to be offended by officers who make mistakes.
People here who are supporting the police are supporting black, white, and latino officers.
Law enforcement comes in all colors. This is not a black-white thing. It's a heat of the moment thing where rookies make mistakes, and adrenaline causes people to do things they later regret.
And let’s not forget non compliance is the start of 99% of these issues
I don’t hold grudges nor do I hate on anyone who has different opinions than me.
Does this include one Colin Kaepernick or is it just for us card collectors?
(BTW - I only keep returning to this thread because I'm BORED at work, I'm not really passionate about the 'issue' - definitely time to polish up the resume).
@grote15 said:
Very nice pet photos! I like both dogs and cats though cats are usually pretty aloof compared to dogs.
My Shepherd loved the snow.
>
LOL. A snowflake loves pictures of his dog in the snow. LOL.
Says the guy who keeps bellyaching, LOL++..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Because Botham Jean, who was killed in his own apartment by an officer who thought she was in her apartment. She first claimed the door was locked, then that the door was partially open, then that she gave him verbal commands that he didn't obey - because he was in his own place and didn't have to obey commands from an off-duty officer who didn't have a warrant or exigent circumstances.
I read Botham Jean and thought right away of Michael Jackson's song. He perhaps could have done a tribute song to her, but no, a black doctor killed the king of pop, and served time in jail for it.
You seem to want to be offended by officers who make mistakes.
People here who are supporting the police are supporting black, white, and latino officers.
Law enforcement comes in all colors. This is not a black-white thing. It's a heat of the moment thing where rookies make mistakes, and adrenaline causes people to do things they later regret.
And let’s not forget non compliance is the start of 99% of these issues
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
I don’t hold grudges nor do I hate on anyone who has different opinions than me.
Does this include one Colin Kaepernick or is it just for us card collectors?
(BTW - I only keep returning to this thread because I'm BORED at work, I'm not really passionate about the 'issue' - definitely time to polish up the resume).
I’m talking about people I like and know. I don’t like Kap, I don’t know him personally but I’m going on how he has acted and presented himself and I think he is a scumbag. I would love an opportunity to say it to his face too. I Hope that clears it up for you
Because Botham Jean, who was killed in his own apartment by an officer who thought she was in her apartment. She first claimed the door was locked, then that the door was partially open, then that she gave him verbal commands that he didn't obey - because he was in his own place and didn't have to obey commands from an off-duty officer who didn't have a warrant or exigent circumstances.
I read Botham Jean and thought right away of Michael Jackson's song. He perhaps could have done a tribute song to her, but no, a black doctor killed the king of pop, and served time in jail for it.
You seem to want to be offended by officers who make mistakes.
People here who are supporting the police are supporting black, white, and latino officers.
Law enforcement comes in all colors. This is not a black-white thing. It's a heat of the moment thing where rookies make mistakes, and adrenaline causes people to do things they later regret.
And let’s not forget non compliance is the start of 99% of these issues
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
Because Botham Jean, who was killed in his own apartment by an officer who thought she was in her apartment. She first claimed the door was locked, then that the door was partially open, then that she gave him verbal commands that he didn't obey - because he was in his own place and didn't have to obey commands from an off-duty officer who didn't have a warrant or exigent circumstances.
I read Botham Jean and thought right away of Michael Jackson's song. He perhaps could have done a tribute song to her, but no, a black doctor killed the king of pop, and served time in jail for it.
You seem to want to be offended by officers who make mistakes.
People here who are supporting the police are supporting black, white, and latino officers.
Law enforcement comes in all colors. This is not a black-white thing. It's a heat of the moment thing where rookies make mistakes, and adrenaline causes people to do things they later regret.
And let’s not forget non compliance is the start of 99% of these issues
I've been stopped for speeding around ten times over the years, always work related rushing to get to appointments, etc. Nothing horrendous such as blatant speeding in residential areas. I was usually going around 20 mph over the speed limit on a highway. Each time I was stopped, I felt that I did deserve a ticket.
Each time I was cordial with the police officer, fully cooperated answering any questions, etc...and not once did I receive a ticket, and I sincerely thanked him for that.
I have no doubt whatsoever that anyone of any race in the exact same situation, responding in the exact same manner as me, would have also not received a ticket.
Another story - A friend of mine picks me up in his car at my house in the early evening and we drive over to New Jersey for a poker game. Well, i had played poker with him many times before, and he often had a habit of too much drinking during the game. I never drank when playing poker. So it's now perhaps around 3:00 in the morning, the game comes to an end and my friend is a bit inebriated. I insist that I drive him home with his car, then I drive home, and bring his car back to him in the morning where he or his wife could then drive me back. Anyway, I'm driving out of the neighborhood and a cop stops me. Turns out my friend did have a non-working tail light, and the cop very friendly was telling me that and was about to let us go. When my stupid friend, being drunk, starts arguing with the cop, saying crap like where do you get off stopping us, etc, etc, etc. Well of course the cop tells him to get out of the car, and they're doing something for a few minutes outside, i didn't want to even look, it was on the other side of the car as I was sitting in the car, as the cop had no problem with me. Well here it comes, the cop comes over to me and tells me that he's taking my friend down to the police station. So now I'm in New Jersey with my friend's car, in a neighborhood I wasn't familiar with, and I had no idea where was the local police station. I couldn't just abandon my friend. So i drove back to the house where we had played poker, found out where the police station was, drove over there, I walk in and my friend is still arguing with the police. I think the police were getting sick and tired of him, but not tired enough to not issue bail or he would be imprisoned. Fortunately, i had a good night playing poker so i wasn't broke, and if I'm remembering right the bail was $50. I paid it and then drove my friend home. Bottom line as Perkdog wisely says COMPLIANCE, IE cooperation and keeping your mouth shut unless it's to be cordial and answer the officer's questions will basically keep virtually any if not every normal situation with the police from escalating out of control.
You have to understand that the police are scared, what most of you don’t realize is that a lot of police officers are political favors, long gone are the days when if you couldn’t run, jump, fight, shoot and be one of the guys you were NOT graduating recruit training, they let 100 pound guys and girls on the police force and are given a gun and told to police, you mix that with an angry person who is non compliant and the use of force escalates to deadly force. FACT
1970s,
We heard from the most prominent resident snowflakes already: yourself and SteveK.
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
Stevek that isn't a fact. I understand that for some people, like yourself, that can't support their position with facts it is important to try and confuse opinion with fact. The 99% number is entirely made up. Do I think the majority of these incidents start with noncompliance? Sure, do 99% of them? Of course not, that is simple hyperbole, not fact.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are perfectly cordial and compliant when getting pulled over for driving significantly over the speed limit. The majority of those people receive speeding tickets. In VA where I live, 20 mph over the speed limit is reckless driving and you would get a speeding ticket every time.
@fergie23 said:
1970s,
We heard from the most prominent resident snowflakes already: yourself and SteveK.
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
Stevek that isn't a fact. I understand that for some people, like yourself, that can't support their position with facts it is important to try and confuse opinion with fact. The 99% number is entirely made up. Do I think the majority of these incidents start with noncompliance? Sure, do 99% of them? Of course not, that is simple hyperbole, not fact.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are perfectly cordial and compliant when getting pulled over for driving significantly over the speed limit. The majority of those people receive speeding tickets. In VA where I live, 20 mph over the speed limit is reckless driving and you would get a speeding ticket every time.
Robb
You're "right" again Robb...the correct number is likely 99.99% or more.
Ya know what really galls me about Kaepernick lovers? The extremely rare circumstance of a police officer taking the life of someone innocent, versus the many thousands of lives the police save each year throughout America. And not a single word of thanks from Kaepernick lovers about all the lives that police officers so bravely save.
It's ironic that a while back the Baltimore police, you may know this story, decided for a number of reasons to hold back in policing the tough inner city areas. Well the GOOD people of the inner cities which is most of them, clamored to change that back to the previous level of police protection.
Of course those who don't enjoy police presence are criminals, drug dealers and gang bangers all of whom probably also support Colin Kaepernick.
Echoing Steve's story, I have one of my own. A few months ago, I was pulled over while en route to a client to drop off some paperwork. This was the middle of a work day, mind you, therefore I was in a suit. The moment I saw those flashing lights I knew exactly what was about to go down: money exiting my wallet for a seat belt violation.
Should be painless, right? Give me a ticket and we'll both go about our day in a matter of minutes? Nope. From the moment this cop opened his mouth, I knew I was in for it. I was as affable and compliant as I could possibly be, yet it mattered not. He was all up in my Cheerios.
"Where are you coming from?"
"Where do you work?"
"Where are you going?"
and best of all...
"Kind of an interesting route you're taking to get to your destination, is it not?"
It was abundantly clear that he was having a bad day, and it was even more apparent that he was tossing out some bait to see if I would give him a reason to unload part of it on me. As much as I wanted to say, "All things considered, the answers to those questions are really none of your f'ing business," I didn't go there. Instead, I allowed him to treat me like I was some sycophant who should be licking his boots......and it completely diffused the potential conflict. Not only did I not want things to escalate even a trace, but frankly I was pressed for time and jacking around with him was not part of the agenda. I had multiple reasons to take the high road and play the role of law-abiding citizen, and I did. Even when I didn't necessarily want to.
dos centavos
ETA: I'm Caucasian
Also ETA: I didn't (and still don't) harbor any resentment toward him. Everyone has a crappy day on occasion, and members of law enforcement are not immune to that. The point of my story is that you have the ability to control a potentially combustible situation by way of your actions, even when you're on defense. It's your choice.
@galaxy27 said:
Echoing Steve's story, I have one of my own. A few months ago, I was pulled over while en route to a client to drop off some paperwork. This was the middle of a work day, mind you, therefore I was in a suit. The moment I saw those flashing lights I knew exactly what was about to go down: money exiting my wallet for a seat belt violation.
Should be painless, right? Give me a ticket and we'll both go about our day in a matter of minutes? Nope. From the moment this cop opened his mouth, I knew I was in for it. I was as affable and compliant as I could possibly be, yet it mattered not. He was all up in my Cheerios.
"Where are you coming from?"
"Where do you work?"
"Where are you going?"
and best of all...
"Kind of an interesting route you're taking to get to your destination, is it not?"
It was abundantly clear that he was having a bad day, and it was even more apparent that he was tossing out some bait to see if I would give him a reason to unload part of it on me. As much as I wanted to say, "All things considered, the answers to those questions are really none of your f'ing business," I didn't go there. Instead, I allowed him to treat me like I was some sycophant who should be licking his boots......and it completely diffused the potential conflict. Not only did I not want things to escalate even a trace, but frankly I was pressed for time and jacking around with him was not part of the agenda. I had multiple reasons to take the high road and play the role of law-abiding citizen, and I did. Even when I didn't necessarily want to.
dos centavos
ETA: I'm Caucasian
Also ETA: I didn't (and still don't) harbor any resentment toward him. Everyone has a crappy day on occasion, and members of law enforcement are not immune to that. The point of my story is that you have the ability to control a potentially combustible situation by way of your actions, even when you're on defense. It's your choice.
You played it perfectly, like a fine violin.
If anyone is unhappy with a police officer and their treatment towards them, they are a number of ways to address that thru the legal system or otherwise. However without a doubt, as you so wisely knew, the time to possibly do that is not when in the presence of a police officer during the situation. If the police officer did something wrong, you could get an attorney and take care of it that way or dispute the ticket yourself in traffic court.
I think i sort of knew most of this by around the second grade or so. Teens or adults who for whatever reason, wish to yell and curse at police officers, and disobey them, only have themselves to blame if the situation escalates.
Steve, characterizing those few of us who disagree with most of you as "Kaepernick lovers" is incredibly dismissive and a gross mischaracterization - it certainly doesn't foster healthy dialogue. I don't "love" Kaepernick. I don't even love that he and others kneeled. However, I firmly believe that what he and others are protesting about has merit. I firmly believe that he and the others are not protesting the Flag or the Anthem or the military themselves, but are protesting what happens to black and brown people in the country the Flag and Anthem is supposed to represent and the military helps to protect. I will remind you that none of us here (as far as I know) has black skin, so we can't possibly know and understand how things are from their point of view.
And the 99% or 99.99% "fact" is bullschmidt. I was asked many, many times for hard evidence for my belief that institutional and subtle racism are a thing. I likewise ask you and Paul to come up with hard evidence that 99% or 99.99% of the incidents in question are a result of noncompliance. Either put up, or stop with the hyperbole.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, characterizing those few of us who disagree with most of you as "Kaepernick lovers" is incredibly dismissive and a gross mischaracterization - it certainly doesn't foster healthy dialogue. I don't "love" Kaepernick. I don't even love that he and others kneeled. However, I firmly believe that what he and others are protesting about has merit. I firmly believe that he and the others are not protesting the Flag or the Anthem or the military themselves, but are protesting what happens to black and brown people in the country the Flag and Anthem is supposed to represent and the military helps to protect. I will remind you that none of us here (as far as I know) has black skin, so we can't possibly know and understand how things are from their point of view.
And the 99% or 99.99% "fact" is bullschmidt. I was asked many, many times for hard evidence for my belief that institutional and subtle racism are a thing. I likewise ask you and Paul to come up with hard evidence that 99% or 99.99% of the incidents in question are a result of noncompliance. Either put up, or stop with the hyperbole.
I tried earlier. Of course it’s much less. Some of these fellas are strangers to facts.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don’t need to come up with anything more than what you can google about the scenarios surrounding these shootings. Show me onecexample where a white cop just straight up executed a black man, ok actually one case where the white cop pulled over s black guy and for no reason the black guy just ran and the cop shot his gun at him like 8 times and killed him, in turn said cop was charged with murder. The rest of these cases that made headlines all were the direct result of non compliance. I love how you guys say it’s “Hyperbole” when I feel the same about what you guys say.
@TNP777 said:
Steve, characterizing those few of us who disagree with most of you as "Kaepernick lovers" is incredibly dismissive and a gross mischaracterization - it certainly doesn't foster healthy dialogue. I don't "love" Kaepernick. I don't even love that he and others kneeled. However, I firmly believe that what he and others are protesting about has merit. I firmly believe that he and the others are not protesting the Flag or the Anthem or the military themselves, but are protesting what happens to black and brown people in the country the Flag and Anthem is supposed to represent and the military helps to protect. I will remind you that none of us here (as far as I know) has black skin, so we can't possibly know and understand how things are from their point of view.
And the 99% or 99.99% "fact" is bullschmidt. I was asked many, many times for hard evidence for my belief that institutional and subtle racism are a thing. I likewise ask you and Paul to come up with hard evidence that 99% or 99.99% of the incidents in question are a result of noncompliance. Either put up, or stop with the hyperbole.
Geordie - I'll refrain from using the "Kaepernick lovers" term. However when the topic is Colin Kaepernick, I cannot refrain from expressing my extreme dislike for a guy who idolizes Fidel Castro.
As far as the 99% remark. In my view it just seems like common sense, not hyperbole at all. I'm not inferring folks who might give a police officer a little bit of lip at a traffic stop. I'm talking about those who are totally non-compliant.
I would believe, when interacting with the police, that around one out a hundred non-compliant folks is easily accurate, and one out of a thousand is likely accurate as well.
We of course only see the dramatic YouTube videos with the rare non-compliant people. Not the countless millions of other interactions with police which happen without incident and compliance with the police officer.
Some may say well what about my stupid friend at the poker game...wasn't he non-compliant? Yes in fact he was non-compliant. But he told me later that he had never been arrested before. And in all the people I've known over the years with all their various traffic stop stories and many other stories regarding interacting with the police, I know of nobody else who ever got arrested.
@TNP777 said:
Paul, you and Steve are stating something is a fact, and you want ME to prove it?
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Now if you were to tell me it's your strong opinion or a gut feeling, then okay. I'm good with that. You'd still be wrong, though
Honestly Geordie, I feel that you are dodging “my opinion” that most of these cases are a direct result of non compliance, I stated one case that was not ( not sure if your familiar with that one case) but the rest of the headlining cases back up “My opinion” not yours and not Kaps
@TNP777 said:
Steve, characterizing those few of us who disagree with most of you as "Kaepernick lovers" is incredibly dismissive and a gross mischaracterization - it certainly doesn't foster healthy dialogue. I don't "love" Kaepernick. I don't even love that he and others kneeled. However, I firmly believe that what he and others are protesting about has merit. I firmly believe that he and the others are not protesting the Flag or the Anthem or the military themselves, but are protesting what happens to black and brown people in the country the Flag and Anthem is supposed to represent and the military helps to protect. I will remind you that none of us here (as far as I know) has black skin, so we can't possibly know and understand how things are from their point of view.
And the 99% or 99.99% "fact" is bullschmidt. I was asked many, many times for hard evidence for my belief that institutional and subtle racism are a thing. I likewise ask you and Paul to come up with hard evidence that 99% or 99.99% of the incidents in question are a result of noncompliance. Either put up, or stop with the hyperbole.
Geordie - I'll refrain from using the "Kaepernick lovers" term. However when the topic is Colin Kaepernick, I cannot refrain from expressing my extreme dislike for a guy who idolizes Fidel Castro.
As far as the 99% remark. In my view it just seems like common sense, not hyperbole at all. I'm not inferring folks who might give a police officer a little bit of lip at a traffic stop. I'm talking about those who are totally non-compliant.
I would believe, when interacting with the police, that around one out a hundred non-compliant folks is easily accurate, and one out of a thousand is likely accurate as well.
We of course only see the dramatic YouTube videos with the rare non-compliant people. Not the countless millions of other interactions with police which happen without incident and compliance with the police officer.
Some may say well what about my stupid friend at the poker game...wasn't he non-compliant? Yes in fact he was non-compliant. But he told me later that he had never been arrested before. And in all the people I've known over the years with all their various traffic stop stories and many other stories regarding interacting with the police, I know of nobody else who ever got arrested.
I provided several examples. The thing is police officers in these situations lie, lie and lie some more. Their fellow officers back them up the vast majority of the time following the "blue" code. When there is no video evidence, they know exactly what to say to make it appear to be the victim's fault. For decades we have heard police and their defenders say the victims had it coming or were to blame for what happened. It is only recently with the increased prevalence of video recorders that people are seeing more of the truth.
Some of you apparently believe it is ok for these people to be killed or beaten because they were not perfectly compliant. I imagine if SteveK's friend had been shot or gotten the snot beaten out of him even SteveK would be singing a different tune.
In the end none of those posting here have any reasonable explanation for why African Americans are 5 times more likely to go to prison for drug possession than whites when both abuse drugs at basically the same rate. Or why African American defendants get longer prison sentences for the same crimes than white defendants. Or why when the NYC stop and frisk statistics were analyzed they found that white people stopped were more likely to have illegal contraband than African Americans yet instead of targeting more white people the police continued to overwhelmingly target minorities (90% of those stopped were minorities). FYI, these are actual facts backed by research and published studies rather than opinions.
Robb right right wrong or indifferent I will say it again, act and look like a thug your going to be treated like one, period. These Blacks that are serving prison sentences and are getting shot are not your everyday go to work and do the right thing type of people. That’s the hard facts, call me a racist, call me unreasonable or whatever I simply don’t care and just like you will not ever change my mind. I’ve seen it first hand so many times you have no idea. Spend 20 years in a correctional facility, work side by side with best cops and then we can sit down and talk and you can tell me how you look at things.
@fergie23 said:
I provided several examples. The thing is police officers in these situations lie, lie and lie some more. Their fellow officers back them up the vast majority of the time following the "blue" code. When there is no video evidence, they know exactly what to say to make it appear to be the victim's fault. For decades we have heard police and their defenders say the victims had it coming or were to blame for what happened. It is only recently with the increased prevalence of video recorders that people are seeing more of the truth.
Some of you apparently believe it is ok for these people to be killed or beaten because they were not perfectly compliant. I imagine if SteveK's friend had been shot or gotten the snot beaten out of him even SteveK would be singing a different tune.
In the end none of those posting here have any reasonable explanation for why African Americans are 5 times more likely to go to prison for drug possession than whites when both abuse drugs at basically the same rate. Or why African American defendants get longer prison sentences for the same crimes than white defendants. Or why when the NYC stop and frisk statistics were analyzed they found that white people stopped were more likely to have illegal contraband than African Americans yet instead of targeting more white people the police continued to overwhelmingly target minorities (90% of those stopped were minorities). FYI, these are actual facts backed by research and published studies rather than opinions.
Robb
<<< Some of you apparently believe it is ok for these people to be killed or beaten because they were not perfectly compliant. I imagine if SteveK's friend had been shot or gotten the snot beaten out of him even SteveK would be singing a different tune. >>>
Robb if your hypothetical scenario would have happened to my friend, then likely I would be more sympathetic to your points. So I agree with ya about that premise. However the fact is that scenario did not happen to my friend.
This current kneeling movement started by Colin Kaepernick can be traced back to the death of Michael Brown back in 2014. When a police officer shot and killed him, and there were brutal riots in Ferguson, Missouri as a result.
Is there any doubt in almost anyone's mind at this point in time, that if Michael Brown would have been compliant with the police officer, that he would still be alive today?
Instead of being compliant and face the charge of theft and assault, Brown decided to reach for the police officer's gun. In my opinion, with the obvious intent of shooting the police officer.
During the struggle, if the police officer would have managed to get handcuffs on Brown and take him down to the police station, without a doubt a further charge would have been attempted murder.
Bottom line in the case of Michael Brown - A court of law adjudicated the police officer of all guilt with stone cold forensic facts. And the "Hands up, don't shoot" narrative was proven to be totally false.
Frankly, i think your first paragraph here is the first time you have posted a valid point on this subject. There is no doubt that sometimes happens in police departments. However, every case can be adjudicated in a court of law.
Don't forget that criminals lie markedly worse than the average police officer. Anyone who believes that a criminal is more truthful overall than a police officer certainly is living in a fantasy land in their own minds.
As for your third paragraph, there are solid explanations to refute your conclusions from the data. For example it's likely that black defendants get longer prison sentences because they have longer rap sheets which judges take into account. For example a thief stealing for the tenth time, will generally get more punishment than a thief stealing for the first time. In no way shape or form, does a judge of today look at a black person and decide that their punishment will be harsher than a white person. If it was 50 or 100 years ago, I would agree with ya, but this is the year 2018.
If you're looking for perfection in the criminal justice system, then good luck to ya because you'll never find it. Despite its faults, I believe that our criminal justice system works better than any other in human history. Which is why it galls me that Colin Kaepernick disses our national anthem and flag, when outside the sports arena he could be making his points in other venues, and in my opinion he should be addressing other much more vital issues such as the horrific murders that occur on a continuous basis in the inner city black neighborhoods.
Steve Kap doesn't need to address violence in Chicago because you are all over that. A forum search on Chicago violence would bring up 19,266 hits all from you. It is literally your forum sig
@bronco2078 said:
Steve Kap doesn't need to address violence in Chicago because you are all over that. A forum search on Chicago violence would bring up 19,266 hits all from you. It is literally your forum sig
"ask me about violence in Chicago"
I think I've mentioned it maybe 3 or 4 times, and it may have just been in this thread.
It's just very sad that Colin Kaepernick never mentions it.
BTW - I just got my fifth CU star so I demand that all forum members now show me the respect that's accorded with such a high honor.
@fergie23 .......On Michael Brown back in 2014.....He has nobody but himself to blame there. He robbed a store...attacked a Police Officer and tried to take his gun! What do you think is going to happen in this case. Then trouble makers from all over the U.S were brought in to riot and destroy. It was a shame. I feel sorry for the good people of Ferguson who had there lives turned upside down and their city in ruins because of this.
actually theres 2 of you harping on chicago . > @stevek said:
@bronco2078 said:
Steve Kap doesn't need to address violence in Chicago because you are all over that. A forum search on Chicago violence would bring up 19,266 hits all from you. It is literally your forum sig
"ask me about violence in Chicago"
I think I've mentioned it maybe 3 or 4 times, and it may have just been in this thread.
It's just very sad that Colin Kaepernick never mentions it.
BTW - I just got my fifth CU star so I demand that all forum members now show me the respect that's accorded with such a high honor.
those 5 stars are no reflection on your brightness
Steve’s got Chicago spot on as a glaring example. I lived in Chicago back in 1992-1993 and most of you probably never heard of the Cabrini-Green Housing projects, any white person going down there was putting their well being at serious risk, I was told that by my Co-Worker Kwasi who was Black. Thankfully they tore that mess down years ago, but in today’s America there are places you shouldn’t go if your white. I can’t say there are places where a Black person shouldn’t go because of a White Neighborhood.
@bronco2078 said:
actually theres 2 of you harping on chicago . > @stevek said:
@bronco2078 said:
Steve Kap doesn't need to address violence in Chicago because you are all over that. A forum search on Chicago violence would bring up 19,266 hits all from you. It is literally your forum sig
"ask me about violence in Chicago"
I think I've mentioned it maybe 3 or 4 times, and it may have just been in this thread.
It's just very sad that Colin Kaepernick never mentions it.
BTW - I just got my fifth CU star so I demand that all forum members now show me the respect that's accorded with such a high honor.
those 5 stars are no reflection on your brightness
Good point.
Fortunately, an IQ test isn't required to post in Sports Talk. If it was, I'm afraid there would be very few posts, if any. LOL
@perkdog said:
Steve’s got Chicago spot on as a glaring example. I lived in Chicago back in 1992-1993 and most of you probably never heard of the Cabrini-Green Housing projects, any white person going down there was putting their well being at serious risk, I was told that by my Co-Worker Kwasi who was Black. Thankfully they tore that mess down years ago, but in today’s America there are places you shouldn’t go if your white. I can’t say there are places where a Black person shouldn’t go because of a White Neighborhood.
Johnson City Tennessee had a line beyond where no one of color should go when I was there in the 90's. I didn't get to scope it out because I talked like a Yankee and wasn't allowed there either.
There were a lot of redneck bars I was warned away from or told not to let anyone hear me talk about pahkin any cahhhs
@perkdog said:
Steve’s got Chicago spot on as a glaring example. I lived in Chicago back in 1992-1993 and most of you probably never heard of the Cabrini-Green Housing projects, any white person going down there was putting their well being at serious risk, I was told that by my Co-Worker Kwasi who was Black. Thankfully they tore that mess down years ago, but in today’s America there are places you shouldn’t go if your white. I can’t say there are places where a Black person shouldn’t go because of a White Neighborhood.
Johnson City Tennessee had a line beyond where no one of color should go when I was there in the 90's. I didn't get to scope it out because I talked like a Yankee and wasn't allowed there either.
There were a lot of redneck bars I was warned away from or told not to let anyone hear me talk about pahkin any cahhhs
Good point, My father was subjected to abuse because he was a “Yankee” when he was down South back in the 60’s. I forgot about scumbag red necks, my bad I stand corrected
Here in Spokane, we have a famous example of police brutality and the "blue line":
A mentally challenged man by the name of Otto Zehm had just gotten paid at his work - $500. He saw a couple of young women near an ATM and, for whatever reason, said to them, "I just got $500!". For whatever reason, the women interpreted that as an attempt to rob them even though Zehm at no time said or did anything threatening. They called the police.
Zehm went to a nearby convenience store.
An officer started to respond.
The women called the police back and recanted their earlier report, realizing they'd misunderstood.
The recant was sent over the radio and responding officer heard it. He went into the convenience store after Zehm anyway.
He approached Zehm and essentially attacked him. The officer called for backup and a number of other offices responded. At no time did Zehm physically assault the officers or ever do anything even the slightest bit illegal.
The group of officers held Zehm down and hog tied him - completely illegal and a violation of police procedures. They ignored his protests about being unable to breathe.
Zehm died.
Investigators questioned the officers and they stated that Zehm had wielded a 2-liter pop bottle in a menacing fashion. Prosecutors declined to press charges.
The police captain, police chief, and prosecutors all stated that surveillance footage from the convenience store backed up the story told by the police officers.
A local newspaper smelled something fishy and sued to get the footage. They got it.
When they reviewed the footage, they found that Zehm had never wielded a pop bottle, had always been 100% compliant, and had done absolutely nothing wrong. Repeat: nothing wrong.
In other words: the officers on site, their captain, their chief, and the district attorney who refused to press charges, all lied about what they'd done and seen. Every. Last. One.
Federal prosecutors saw the footage and pressed civil rights violations charges against the responding officer. He was convicted and sentenced to, I believe, six years.
At his sentencing, some 40 fellow officers showed up in dress blues, then stood and saluted the guy - remember, he killed a man and lied about - as he was led off to prison. 40 officers in dress blues.
One of those 40 is now chief of police in Spokane.
Tabe great write up but honestly you could have saved yourself the trouble and posted “Google Otto Zehm”. But the caveat of that would be that Kap supporters don’t care because the guy was white hence the reason why it wasn’t on CNN and there were no riots over it. On another note police are like people too, good and bad, it’s unfortunate but there are bad cops.
(BTW - I only keep returning to this thread because I'm BORED at work, I'm not really passionate about the 'issue' - definitely time to polish up the resume).
@DIMEMAN said: @fergie23 .......On Michael Brown back in 2014.....He has nobody but himself to blame there. He robbed a store...attacked a Police Officer and tried to take his gun! What do you think is going to happen in this case. Then trouble makers from all over the U.S were brought in to riot and destroy. It was a shame. I feel sorry for the good people of Ferguson who had there lives turned upside down and their city in ruins because of this.
You forgot about the shopkeeper that the 300 pound thug strong armed before he even met up with the cop.
The Federal Government came against the officer with the full weight of the Justice Dept. ( I believe for political reasons) They still could not get a conviction. That was solid evidence to me the fault was Browns. BTW wasn't he called the big lovable something or other to give people a preconceived idea of his personality?
(BTW - I only keep returning to this thread because I'm BORED at work, I'm not really passionate about the 'issue' - definitely time to polish up the resume).
@DIMEMAN said: @fergie23 .......On Michael Brown back in 2014.....He has nobody but himself to blame there. He robbed a store...attacked a Police Officer and tried to take his gun! What do you think is going to happen in this case. Then trouble makers from all over the U.S were brought in to riot and destroy. It was a shame. I feel sorry for the good people of Ferguson who had there lives turned upside down and their city in ruins because of this.
You forgot about the shopkeeper that the 300 pound thug strong armed before he even met up with the cop.
Yes, I forgot to mention that.
I guess the Police haters don't want to talk about this.
@Tabe said:
Here in Spokane, we have a famous example of police brutality and the "blue line":
A mentally challenged man by the name of Otto Zehm had just gotten paid at his work - $500. He saw a couple of young women near an ATM and, for whatever reason, said to them, "I just got $500!". For whatever reason, the women interpreted that as an attempt to rob them even though Zehm at no time said or did anything threatening. They called the police.
Zehm went to a nearby convenience store.
An officer started to respond.
The women called the police back and recanted their earlier report, realizing they'd misunderstood.
The recant was sent over the radio and responding officer heard it. He went into the convenience store after Zehm anyway.
He approached Zehm and essentially attacked him. The officer called for backup and a number of other offices responded. At no time did Zehm physically assault the officers or ever do anything even the slightest bit illegal.
The group of officers held Zehm down and hog tied him - completely illegal and a violation of police procedures. They ignored his protests about being unable to breathe.
Zehm died.
Investigators questioned the officers and they stated that Zehm had wielded a 2-liter pop bottle in a menacing fashion. Prosecutors declined to press charges.
The police captain, police chief, and prosecutors all stated that surveillance footage from the convenience store backed up the story told by the police officers.
A local newspaper smelled something fishy and sued to get the footage. They got it.
When they reviewed the footage, they found that Zehm had never wielded a pop bottle, had always been 100% compliant, and had done absolutely nothing wrong. Repeat: nothing wrong.
In other words: the officers on site, their captain, their chief, and the district attorney who refused to press charges, all lied about what they'd done and seen. Every. Last. One.
Federal prosecutors saw the footage and pressed civil rights violations charges against the responding officer. He was convicted and sentenced to, I believe, six years.
At his sentencing, some 40 fellow officers showed up in dress blues, then stood and saluted the guy - remember, he killed a man and lied about - as he was led off to prison. 40 officers in dress blues.
One of those 40 is now chief of police in Spokane.
It's quite easy to read this and see for a variety of reasons, that there is another side to the story. How could the police know that he was mentally challenged? The police may have thought the guy was on meth or something like that. Sadly the guy likely was confused and unintentionally non-compliant, but the police didn't know that. In my view it just seems like a very tragic set of circumstances for the most part.
I would agree that the rest of the police department in their view, didn't wish to see their fellow officer punished for what seems like a completely unintentional error. In any event, the police officer you say received six years in prison.
I'll tell ya what also galls me. Are the stories unfairly analyzed by those with an agenda against the police such as certain media types, and includes Kaepernick supporters.
One example are the media headlines shouting "Police shoot an unarmed man." Well how in the yell in virtually all cases would the police know ahead of time that the guy is unarmed? Does the media think that police officers have x-ray vision like Superman and they can see a hidden weapon?
Someone not compliant, acting in an hostile manner, with their hands moving around in a way could be viewed as reaching for or having a weapon...that is a recipe for disaster. The police often have just seconds to make a decision regarding a non-compliant, potentially dangerous individual.
Frankly, if any of you Kaepernick supporters choose to be honest, and admit that under these type of circumstances, if someone threatens you in a manner which could take your life, if you're a police officer who are targets anyway for dangerous criminals, then you are going to use your gun. And if you say "no, you wouldn't use your gun" then you're simply not being truthful.
Let me tell you, if someone breaks into my home, I'm going have a .357 in my hand and tell them to "freeze" and if they run then i would not do anything. However if they move their hands in a position of possible harm to me such as reaching for a weapon, then they are going to get shot with a hollow point bullet right thru their chest. And any possible legal repercussions, then I'll have to deal with it. But at least i'll be alive.
That police officer who served six years. Despite the agony of doing the six years, i guarantee you that he would rather be doing the time, then be shot and dead.
Comments
Very nice pet photos! I like both dogs and cats though cats are usually pretty aloof compared to dogs.
My Shepherd loved the snow.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Man has this thread turned on a dime
Did we actually run out of ammo
m
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Two year old thread, Mark. This thread has more legs than a Red lobster crab fest.
Our dog Phoebe as a pup, she is a tea cup Morkie. She is full grown now at 4.5llbs lol
Grote15 does tend to lose his temper and get out of control at times, but despite all that, I do feel that collaring him on a leash is a bit harsh.
And let’s not forget non compliance is the start of 99% of these issues
I don’t hold grudges nor do I hate on anyone who has different opinions than me.
Does this include one Colin Kaepernick or is it just for us card collectors?
(BTW - I only keep returning to this thread because I'm BORED at work, I'm not really passionate about the 'issue' - definitely time to polish up the resume).
Says the guy who keeps bellyaching, LOL++..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
I’m talking about people I like and know. I don’t like Kap, I don’t know him personally but I’m going on how he has acted and presented himself and I think he is a scumbag. I would love an opportunity to say it to his face too. I Hope that clears it up for you
And Incase your unaware I don’t care lol
I've been stopped for speeding around ten times over the years, always work related rushing to get to appointments, etc. Nothing horrendous such as blatant speeding in residential areas. I was usually going around 20 mph over the speed limit on a highway. Each time I was stopped, I felt that I did deserve a ticket.
Each time I was cordial with the police officer, fully cooperated answering any questions, etc...and not once did I receive a ticket, and I sincerely thanked him for that.
I have no doubt whatsoever that anyone of any race in the exact same situation, responding in the exact same manner as me, would have also not received a ticket.
Another story - A friend of mine picks me up in his car at my house in the early evening and we drive over to New Jersey for a poker game. Well, i had played poker with him many times before, and he often had a habit of too much drinking during the game. I never drank when playing poker. So it's now perhaps around 3:00 in the morning, the game comes to an end and my friend is a bit inebriated. I insist that I drive him home with his car, then I drive home, and bring his car back to him in the morning where he or his wife could then drive me back. Anyway, I'm driving out of the neighborhood and a cop stops me. Turns out my friend did have a non-working tail light, and the cop very friendly was telling me that and was about to let us go. When my stupid friend, being drunk, starts arguing with the cop, saying crap like where do you get off stopping us, etc, etc, etc. Well of course the cop tells him to get out of the car, and they're doing something for a few minutes outside, i didn't want to even look, it was on the other side of the car as I was sitting in the car, as the cop had no problem with me. Well here it comes, the cop comes over to me and tells me that he's taking my friend down to the police station. So now I'm in New Jersey with my friend's car, in a neighborhood I wasn't familiar with, and I had no idea where was the local police station. I couldn't just abandon my friend. So i drove back to the house where we had played poker, found out where the police station was, drove over there, I walk in and my friend is still arguing with the police. I think the police were getting sick and tired of him, but not tired enough to not issue bail or he would be imprisoned. Fortunately, i had a good night playing poker so i wasn't broke, and if I'm remembering right the bail was $50. I paid it and then drove my friend home. Bottom line as Perkdog wisely says COMPLIANCE, IE cooperation and keeping your mouth shut unless it's to be cordial and answer the officer's questions will basically keep virtually any if not every normal situation with the police from escalating out of control.
You have to understand that the police are scared, what most of you don’t realize is that a lot of police officers are political favors, long gone are the days when if you couldn’t run, jump, fight, shoot and be one of the guys you were NOT graduating recruit training, they let 100 pound guys and girls on the police force and are given a gun and told to police, you mix that with an angry person who is non compliant and the use of force escalates to deadly force. FACT
1970s,
We heard from the most prominent resident snowflakes already: yourself and SteveK.
Oh boy, stating facts like this is going to get you in big trouble with the Kaepernick lovers.
Stevek that isn't a fact. I understand that for some people, like yourself, that can't support their position with facts it is important to try and confuse opinion with fact. The 99% number is entirely made up. Do I think the majority of these incidents start with noncompliance? Sure, do 99% of them? Of course not, that is simple hyperbole, not fact.
I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people are perfectly cordial and compliant when getting pulled over for driving significantly over the speed limit. The majority of those people receive speeding tickets. In VA where I live, 20 mph over the speed limit is reckless driving and you would get a speeding ticket every time.
Robb
You're "right" again Robb...the correct number is likely 99.99% or more.
Ya know what really galls me about Kaepernick lovers? The extremely rare circumstance of a police officer taking the life of someone innocent, versus the many thousands of lives the police save each year throughout America. And not a single word of thanks from Kaepernick lovers about all the lives that police officers so bravely save.
It's ironic that a while back the Baltimore police, you may know this story, decided for a number of reasons to hold back in policing the tough inner city areas. Well the GOOD people of the inner cities which is most of them, clamored to change that back to the previous level of police protection.
Of course those who don't enjoy police presence are criminals, drug dealers and gang bangers all of whom probably also support Colin Kaepernick.
Echoing Steve's story, I have one of my own. A few months ago, I was pulled over while en route to a client to drop off some paperwork. This was the middle of a work day, mind you, therefore I was in a suit. The moment I saw those flashing lights I knew exactly what was about to go down: money exiting my wallet for a seat belt violation.
Should be painless, right? Give me a ticket and we'll both go about our day in a matter of minutes? Nope. From the moment this cop opened his mouth, I knew I was in for it. I was as affable and compliant as I could possibly be, yet it mattered not. He was all up in my Cheerios.
"Where are you coming from?"
"Where do you work?"
"Where are you going?"
and best of all...
"Kind of an interesting route you're taking to get to your destination, is it not?"
It was abundantly clear that he was having a bad day, and it was even more apparent that he was tossing out some bait to see if I would give him a reason to unload part of it on me. As much as I wanted to say, "All things considered, the answers to those questions are really none of your f'ing business," I didn't go there. Instead, I allowed him to treat me like I was some sycophant who should be licking his boots......and it completely diffused the potential conflict. Not only did I not want things to escalate even a trace, but frankly I was pressed for time and jacking around with him was not part of the agenda. I had multiple reasons to take the high road and play the role of law-abiding citizen, and I did. Even when I didn't necessarily want to.
dos centavos
ETA: I'm Caucasian
Also ETA: I didn't (and still don't) harbor any resentment toward him. Everyone has a crappy day on occasion, and members of law enforcement are not immune to that. The point of my story is that you have the ability to control a potentially combustible situation by way of your actions, even when you're on defense. It's your choice.
you'll never be able to outrun a bad diet
You played it perfectly, like a fine violin.
If anyone is unhappy with a police officer and their treatment towards them, they are a number of ways to address that thru the legal system or otherwise. However without a doubt, as you so wisely knew, the time to possibly do that is not when in the presence of a police officer during the situation. If the police officer did something wrong, you could get an attorney and take care of it that way or dispute the ticket yourself in traffic court.
I think i sort of knew most of this by around the second grade or so. Teens or adults who for whatever reason, wish to yell and curse at police officers, and disobey them, only have themselves to blame if the situation escalates.
Steve, characterizing those few of us who disagree with most of you as "Kaepernick lovers" is incredibly dismissive and a gross mischaracterization - it certainly doesn't foster healthy dialogue. I don't "love" Kaepernick. I don't even love that he and others kneeled. However, I firmly believe that what he and others are protesting about has merit. I firmly believe that he and the others are not protesting the Flag or the Anthem or the military themselves, but are protesting what happens to black and brown people in the country the Flag and Anthem is supposed to represent and the military helps to protect. I will remind you that none of us here (as far as I know) has black skin, so we can't possibly know and understand how things are from their point of view.
And the 99% or 99.99% "fact" is bullschmidt. I was asked many, many times for hard evidence for my belief that institutional and subtle racism are a thing. I likewise ask you and Paul to come up with hard evidence that 99% or 99.99% of the incidents in question are a result of noncompliance. Either put up, or stop with the hyperbole.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
I tried earlier. Of course it’s much less. Some of these fellas are strangers to facts.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I don’t need to come up with anything more than what you can google about the scenarios surrounding these shootings. Show me onecexample where a white cop just straight up executed a black man, ok actually one case where the white cop pulled over s black guy and for no reason the black guy just ran and the cop shot his gun at him like 8 times and killed him, in turn said cop was charged with murder. The rest of these cases that made headlines all were the direct result of non compliance. I love how you guys say it’s “Hyperbole” when I feel the same about what you guys say.
Paul, you and Steve are stating something is a fact, and you want ME to prove it?
That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.
Now if you were to tell me it's your strong opinion or a gut feeling, then okay. I'm good with that. You'd still be wrong, though
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
Geordie - I'll refrain from using the "Kaepernick lovers" term. However when the topic is Colin Kaepernick, I cannot refrain from expressing my extreme dislike for a guy who idolizes Fidel Castro.
As far as the 99% remark. In my view it just seems like common sense, not hyperbole at all. I'm not inferring folks who might give a police officer a little bit of lip at a traffic stop. I'm talking about those who are totally non-compliant.
I would believe, when interacting with the police, that around one out a hundred non-compliant folks is easily accurate, and one out of a thousand is likely accurate as well.
We of course only see the dramatic YouTube videos with the rare non-compliant people. Not the countless millions of other interactions with police which happen without incident and compliance with the police officer.
Some may say well what about my stupid friend at the poker game...wasn't he non-compliant? Yes in fact he was non-compliant. But he told me later that he had never been arrested before. And in all the people I've known over the years with all their various traffic stop stories and many other stories regarding interacting with the police, I know of nobody else who ever got arrested.
Honestly Geordie, I feel that you are dodging “my opinion” that most of these cases are a direct result of non compliance, I stated one case that was not ( not sure if your familiar with that one case) but the rest of the headlining cases back up “My opinion” not yours and not Kaps
well ya they are all white guys duh
I provided several examples. The thing is police officers in these situations lie, lie and lie some more. Their fellow officers back them up the vast majority of the time following the "blue" code. When there is no video evidence, they know exactly what to say to make it appear to be the victim's fault. For decades we have heard police and their defenders say the victims had it coming or were to blame for what happened. It is only recently with the increased prevalence of video recorders that people are seeing more of the truth.
Some of you apparently believe it is ok for these people to be killed or beaten because they were not perfectly compliant. I imagine if SteveK's friend had been shot or gotten the snot beaten out of him even SteveK would be singing a different tune.
In the end none of those posting here have any reasonable explanation for why African Americans are 5 times more likely to go to prison for drug possession than whites when both abuse drugs at basically the same rate. Or why African American defendants get longer prison sentences for the same crimes than white defendants. Or why when the NYC stop and frisk statistics were analyzed they found that white people stopped were more likely to have illegal contraband than African Americans yet instead of targeting more white people the police continued to overwhelmingly target minorities (90% of those stopped were minorities). FYI, these are actual facts backed by research and published studies rather than opinions.
Robb
Robb right right wrong or indifferent I will say it again, act and look like a thug your going to be treated like one, period. These Blacks that are serving prison sentences and are getting shot are not your everyday go to work and do the right thing type of people. That’s the hard facts, call me a racist, call me unreasonable or whatever I simply don’t care and just like you will not ever change my mind. I’ve seen it first hand so many times you have no idea. Spend 20 years in a correctional facility, work side by side with best cops and then we can sit down and talk and you can tell me how you look at things.
<<< Some of you apparently believe it is ok for these people to be killed or beaten because they were not perfectly compliant. I imagine if SteveK's friend had been shot or gotten the snot beaten out of him even SteveK would be singing a different tune. >>>
Robb if your hypothetical scenario would have happened to my friend, then likely I would be more sympathetic to your points. So I agree with ya about that premise. However the fact is that scenario did not happen to my friend.
This current kneeling movement started by Colin Kaepernick can be traced back to the death of Michael Brown back in 2014. When a police officer shot and killed him, and there were brutal riots in Ferguson, Missouri as a result.
Is there any doubt in almost anyone's mind at this point in time, that if Michael Brown would have been compliant with the police officer, that he would still be alive today?
Instead of being compliant and face the charge of theft and assault, Brown decided to reach for the police officer's gun. In my opinion, with the obvious intent of shooting the police officer.
During the struggle, if the police officer would have managed to get handcuffs on Brown and take him down to the police station, without a doubt a further charge would have been attempted murder.
Bottom line in the case of Michael Brown - A court of law adjudicated the police officer of all guilt with stone cold forensic facts. And the "Hands up, don't shoot" narrative was proven to be totally false.
Frankly, i think your first paragraph here is the first time you have posted a valid point on this subject. There is no doubt that sometimes happens in police departments. However, every case can be adjudicated in a court of law.
Don't forget that criminals lie markedly worse than the average police officer. Anyone who believes that a criminal is more truthful overall than a police officer certainly is living in a fantasy land in their own minds.
As for your third paragraph, there are solid explanations to refute your conclusions from the data. For example it's likely that black defendants get longer prison sentences because they have longer rap sheets which judges take into account. For example a thief stealing for the tenth time, will generally get more punishment than a thief stealing for the first time. In no way shape or form, does a judge of today look at a black person and decide that their punishment will be harsher than a white person. If it was 50 or 100 years ago, I would agree with ya, but this is the year 2018.
If you're looking for perfection in the criminal justice system, then good luck to ya because you'll never find it. Despite its faults, I believe that our criminal justice system works better than any other in human history. Which is why it galls me that Colin Kaepernick disses our national anthem and flag, when outside the sports arena he could be making his points in other venues, and in my opinion he should be addressing other much more vital issues such as the horrific murders that occur on a continuous basis in the inner city black neighborhoods.
Steve Kap doesn't need to address violence in Chicago because you are all over that. A forum search on Chicago violence would bring up 19,266 hits all from you. It is literally your forum sig
"ask me about violence in Chicago"
I think I've mentioned it maybe 3 or 4 times, and it may have just been in this thread.
It's just very sad that Colin Kaepernick never mentions it.
BTW - I just got my fifth CU star so I demand that all forum members now show me the respect that's accorded with such a high honor.
@fergie23 .......On Michael Brown back in 2014.....He has nobody but himself to blame there. He robbed a store...attacked a Police Officer and tried to take his gun! What do you think is going to happen in this case. Then trouble makers from all over the U.S were brought in to riot and destroy. It was a shame. I feel sorry for the good people of Ferguson who had there lives turned upside down and their city in ruins because of this.
actually theres 2 of you harping on chicago . > @stevek said:
those 5 stars are no reflection on your brightness
Steve’s got Chicago spot on as a glaring example. I lived in Chicago back in 1992-1993 and most of you probably never heard of the Cabrini-Green Housing projects, any white person going down there was putting their well being at serious risk, I was told that by my Co-Worker Kwasi who was Black. Thankfully they tore that mess down years ago, but in today’s America there are places you shouldn’t go if your white. I can’t say there are places where a Black person shouldn’t go because of a White Neighborhood.
Good point.
Fortunately, an IQ test isn't required to post in Sports Talk. If it was, I'm afraid there would be very few posts, if any. LOL
Johnson City Tennessee had a line beyond where no one of color should go when I was there in the 90's. I didn't get to scope it out because I talked like a Yankee and wasn't allowed there either.
There were a lot of redneck bars I was warned away from or told not to let anyone hear me talk about pahkin any cahhhs
Good point, My father was subjected to abuse because he was a “Yankee” when he was down South back in the 60’s. I forgot about scumbag red necks, my bad I stand corrected
I leave the situation arm chair for awhile and I return pictures of cats, dogs and music.
Can this thread end on a better note? Coleman Hawkins, Chu Berry, Wardell Gray, Lester Young or Bud Freeman would be an improvement.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Here in Spokane, we have a famous example of police brutality and the "blue line":
A mentally challenged man by the name of Otto Zehm had just gotten paid at his work - $500. He saw a couple of young women near an ATM and, for whatever reason, said to them, "I just got $500!". For whatever reason, the women interpreted that as an attempt to rob them even though Zehm at no time said or did anything threatening. They called the police.
Zehm went to a nearby convenience store.
An officer started to respond.
The women called the police back and recanted their earlier report, realizing they'd misunderstood.
The recant was sent over the radio and responding officer heard it. He went into the convenience store after Zehm anyway.
He approached Zehm and essentially attacked him. The officer called for backup and a number of other offices responded. At no time did Zehm physically assault the officers or ever do anything even the slightest bit illegal.
The group of officers held Zehm down and hog tied him - completely illegal and a violation of police procedures. They ignored his protests about being unable to breathe.
Zehm died.
Investigators questioned the officers and they stated that Zehm had wielded a 2-liter pop bottle in a menacing fashion. Prosecutors declined to press charges.
The police captain, police chief, and prosecutors all stated that surveillance footage from the convenience store backed up the story told by the police officers.
A local newspaper smelled something fishy and sued to get the footage. They got it.
When they reviewed the footage, they found that Zehm had never wielded a pop bottle, had always been 100% compliant, and had done absolutely nothing wrong. Repeat: nothing wrong.
In other words: the officers on site, their captain, their chief, and the district attorney who refused to press charges, all lied about what they'd done and seen. Every. Last. One.
Federal prosecutors saw the footage and pressed civil rights violations charges against the responding officer. He was convicted and sentenced to, I believe, six years.
At his sentencing, some 40 fellow officers showed up in dress blues, then stood and saluted the guy - remember, he killed a man and lied about - as he was led off to prison. 40 officers in dress blues.
One of those 40 is now chief of police in Spokane.
Tabe great write up but honestly you could have saved yourself the trouble and posted “Google Otto Zehm”. But the caveat of that would be that Kap supporters don’t care because the guy was white hence the reason why it wasn’t on CNN and there were no riots over it. On another note police are like people too, good and bad, it’s unfortunate but there are bad cops.
You forgot about the shopkeeper that the 300 pound thug strong armed before he even met up with the cop.
The Federal Government came against the officer with the full weight of the Justice Dept. ( I believe for political reasons) They still could not get a conviction. That was solid evidence to me the fault was Browns. BTW wasn't he called the big lovable something or other to give people a preconceived idea of his personality?
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Ralph
Yes, I forgot to mention that.
I guess the Police haters don't want to talk about this.
Thug was a poor choice , I should have said recent graduate.
Guys stop it your making to many good points
It's quite easy to read this and see for a variety of reasons, that there is another side to the story. How could the police know that he was mentally challenged? The police may have thought the guy was on meth or something like that. Sadly the guy likely was confused and unintentionally non-compliant, but the police didn't know that. In my view it just seems like a very tragic set of circumstances for the most part.
I would agree that the rest of the police department in their view, didn't wish to see their fellow officer punished for what seems like a completely unintentional error. In any event, the police officer you say received six years in prison.
I'll tell ya what also galls me. Are the stories unfairly analyzed by those with an agenda against the police such as certain media types, and includes Kaepernick supporters.
One example are the media headlines shouting "Police shoot an unarmed man." Well how in the yell in virtually all cases would the police know ahead of time that the guy is unarmed? Does the media think that police officers have x-ray vision like Superman and they can see a hidden weapon?
Someone not compliant, acting in an hostile manner, with their hands moving around in a way could be viewed as reaching for or having a weapon...that is a recipe for disaster. The police often have just seconds to make a decision regarding a non-compliant, potentially dangerous individual.
Frankly, if any of you Kaepernick supporters choose to be honest, and admit that under these type of circumstances, if someone threatens you in a manner which could take your life, if you're a police officer who are targets anyway for dangerous criminals, then you are going to use your gun. And if you say "no, you wouldn't use your gun" then you're simply not being truthful.
Let me tell you, if someone breaks into my home, I'm going have a .357 in my hand and tell them to "freeze" and if they run then i would not do anything. However if they move their hands in a position of possible harm to me such as reaching for a weapon, then they are going to get shot with a hollow point bullet right thru their chest. And any possible legal repercussions, then I'll have to deal with it. But at least i'll be alive.
That police officer who served six years. Despite the agony of doing the six years, i guarantee you that he would rather be doing the time, then be shot and dead.