Thanks to posts here, and NGC/PCGS showing some pretty frequent reporting updates, we can now say 25% of the population has been in a holder. Obviously does not count for resubmittals or any cracked out, but gives a good estimate.
Originally posted by: GhosOfRudy Thanks to posts here, and NGC/PCGS showing some pretty frequent reporting updates, we can now say 25% of the population has been in a holder. Obviously does not count for resubmittals or any cracked out, but gives a good estimate.
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
All of this dime discussion is mostly old news now and we see prices drop, as many including myself expected, due to the high mintage and household limits leading to flipping, not collecting.
What I would like to know is does all this information and knowledge help sort out what to do for the gold SL Quarter? The mint has not even given a date, mintage, HH limit or any info as far as I can tell. And they have no idea when to issue a proof silver eagle because some congressman decided we needed some text around the edge of it that they do not know how to do without big capital expense for new machines.
All I want to collect is one nice looking PCGS MS70 of the gold quarter and half.
My take on all this Mercury Madness is to just wait and buy my next two standing and walking Liberty Centennial coins in 2017 after everyone else has had their way with them in 2016.
Also, still waiting to see if it is the "exposed" standing Liberty version or not. LOL
Originally posted by: GhosOfRudy Thanks to posts here, and NGC/PCGS showing some pretty frequent reporting updates, we can now say 25% of the population has been in a holder. Obviously does not count for resubmittals or any cracked out, but gives a good estimate.
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
I agree. But with modern coins, you can't expect MS-63 to be the bar either, I guess. I expect price to surge again on subsequent releases.
Imagine those that paid over $400 for a PCGS 70 Merc gold.....which is now a very common PCGS 70 .. and going now for around $250
Kind of like people who bought SAEs and other silver @ ~$50/oz and now it is under $20?
Or, like folks who bought 1999 silver proof sets for $400+ and they are now a lot less?
It happens.
On the flip side, there are folks who bought the 3pc 20th Annv SAE set for $100 and they are still above that. Or the 10th Annv 4pc gold + SAE for the issue price and it is still above that.
Winners and losers and sometimes it is hard to see into the future correctly.
(note: I have both winners and losers under my belt in the last 10 years, so I feel for both sides of the house)
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
This implies that having a large percentage of production with finned rims is acceptable, but it's not. Both QC and Production decided to ignore the problem and they apparently got away with it.
They must think that if demand is so good that a 66% markup over spot won't kill the market, nothing will.
At some point, it boils down to risk vs. reward and when you're starting out 66% in the hole, a widespread quality problem can't help you in the aftermarket. $250 for a PCGS-70 is a loss, after grading fees, shipping & handling & other selling costs.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Originally posted by: TwoSides2aCoin Maybe keep those 8900 to repackage with an SLQ and Walking Liberty. A 3 coin set limited to 8900
There's an idea.
However, instead of removing some of the SLQ and WLH mintage, create the three-coin sets entirely from the cancellations and returns of all three coins, however many sets that might be. (Probably returns/cancels of the half would be the determining factor.)
TPG wise, they may get a special label, but FS/ER would be out of the question because these coins were originally offered once, and are of the same batch. And they would always be known as the "leftover" coins.
The SLQ (16XC) has a release date of September 8. (No mintage or HH limits yet announced.)
Current gold spot is hovering right around $1350. Should spot be between $1300 and $1349, the price will be $485. Should spot be between $1350 and $1399, the price will be $497.50.
Here's an enhance image from Coinworld's pic from CSNS:
Cool. I suppose that means I'll get up at my normal time on the date of sale, have a nice breakfast, go for a long walk, spend some time with the slobbery dog and then buy it within the next couple days, afterward.
Originally posted by: planetsteve Anybody think it's possible that sales won't reach 100,000? Consider that price is just about $500; and $5 commems never sell that many.
I wonder what the ratio is of gold Mercs in collector hands vs. in dealer inventories right now.
WAG'ing here.
Sales will have no problem reaching 100K, though it might take a few days with a HHL of 1. (Depends if the biggie coin marts and television hucksters get in it. I'm not sure this is going to be a big flip, so the flippers may stay away with an entry price of almost $500, almost $150 over spot.) 100K quarters will still only be 25K oz. The RP Buff took four days to reach 25K oz, the gold Kennedy sold over 42K oz the first day, and the 2014HR sold 36K oz the first day.
It's been 4.5 months since the dimes went on sale, so I'd think sales and resales are pretty much done, or at least stable, so I'd say most are with the collector.
The biggest inventory of gold mercs is still in the hands of the mint. There are still almost 8900 unsold coins. (Some may not be resaleable, so let's say 7500.) That's quite a number that will still be available (I assume) at mint issue price.
I'm in for one gold SLQ. I was going to get two, but don't feel the need to go out of my way to get another, since these are staying raw in my collection.
Anybody think it's possible that sales won't reach 100,000? Consider that price is just about $500; and $5 commems never sell that many.
I wonder what the ratio is of gold Mercs in collector hands vs. in dealer inventories right now.
Possible? Yes it's possible but it will sell-out barring some unforeseen event interrupting sales. The nice thing is it won't sell-out in a few minutes or probably not even in a few hours. It could take two or three days giving everyone a chance to get one if they wish.
Thanks for the replies. I guess if they could sell out the Kennedy, they could sell out a classic quarter. I'd like one myself, and after all I think it is nice that collectors have a much better chance of buying directly, instead of being forced to pay a heavy tax to flippers and hucksters.
I don't see a quick sell out. I bought about 30 dimes to flip... I doubt I try flipping these unless I see someone making a decent offer for them. I will buy a MS70 in a retro green though when they get cheap enough.
Still not buying it...but will interesting to watch the numbers.
Do the 1916 SLQ's have a hollowed out stem on the olive branch like the 2016 version does? I am sure that there are other "dis-similarities" between the two.
oih82w8 = Oh I Hate To Wait _defectus patientia_aka...Dr. Defecto - Curator of RMO's
As to "First Strike" designation, does anyone know if the U.S. Mint makes any effort to release these coins in the order of their having been struck? Apparently they have all been minted for months and so it is not as if we are getting them hot off the press on a daily basis.
WASHINGTON - The United States Mint announced today that it will strike and issue coins to commemorate the 100th anniversary of three iconic coin designs first issued in 1916: the "Winged Liberty" dime, "Standing Liberty" quarter, and "Walking Liberty" half-dollar. All three coins will be manufactured from .9999 fine, 24-karat gold.
and more to the point,
Details about mintage levels, on-sale dates, and pricing will be announced next year.
WASHINGTON - The United States Mint announced today that it will strike and issue coins to commemorate the 100th anniversary of three iconic coin designs first issued in 1916: the "Winged Liberty" dime, "Standing Liberty" quarter, and "Walking Liberty" half-dollar. All three coins will be manufactured from .9999 fine, 24-karat gold.
and more to the point,
Details about mintage levels, on-sale dates, and pricing will be announced next year.
WASHINGTON - The United States Mint announced today that it will strike and issue coins to commemorate the 100th anniversary of three iconic coin designs first issued in 1916: the "Winged Liberty" dime, "Standing Liberty" quarter, and "Walking Liberty" half-dollar. All three coins will be manufactured from .9999 fine, 24-karat gold.
and more to the point,
Details about mintage levels, on-sale dates, and pricing will be announced next year.
Well, yeah, but that was posted on November 10, 2015. (Yes, this thread had been around that long.)
Unless something drastic happens (like a +$50 or -$100 move on gold in the next 8 hours), it'll be $485, or just under $150 over spot.
At 100K and a HHL of 1, everyone who's online at noon and wants one will get one. All orders will be automatically upgraded to UPS Ground since it's a PM, so don't pay for expedited shipping.
I'm getting one (not bothering to try to game the system), and will remain raw like the gold Mercs I have.
WAG: It may be a sub-one hour sell out if the flippers and dealers jump on this, though I haven't heard of biggie coin mart or the TV hucksters offering premiums for ordering one for them. (That could happen today.) On the other hand, if it takes more than two days to sell out, prices will be flat and this'll become a flipper's nightmare. With twice the amount of gold available (12.5K oz vs. 25K oz) and a HHL of 1 oz for the Mercs down to 0.25 oz for the SLQ, we're essentially seeing 8 times the availability. I think this is a 24+ hour sell-out, but I've been waaaay wrong before on issues like this.
Comments
My PCGS profile
Thanks to posts here, and NGC/PCGS showing some pretty frequent reporting updates, we can now say 25% of the population has been in a holder. Obviously does not count for resubmittals or any cracked out, but gives a good estimate.
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
What I would like to know is does all this information and knowledge help sort out what to do for the gold SL Quarter? The mint has not even given a date, mintage, HH limit or any info as far as I can tell. And they have no idea when to issue a proof silver eagle because some congressman decided we needed some text around the edge of it that they do not know how to do without big capital expense for new machines.
All I want to collect is one nice looking PCGS MS70 of the gold quarter and half.
My take on all this Mercury Madness is to just wait and buy my next two standing and walking Liberty Centennial coins in 2017 after everyone else has had their way with them in 2016.
Also, still waiting to see if it is the "exposed" standing Liberty version or not. LOL
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
So all the coins that had the rim issues were "quality" and worthy of raises. Thats a good one.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Thanks to posts here, and NGC/PCGS showing some pretty frequent reporting updates, we can now say 25% of the population has been in a holder. Obviously does not count for resubmittals or any cracked out, but gives a good estimate.
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
I agree. But with modern coins, you can't expect MS-63 to be the bar either, I guess. I expect price to surge again on subsequent releases.
My PCGS profile
Imagine those that paid over $400 for a PCGS 70 Merc gold.....which is now a very common PCGS 70 .. and going now for around $250
Kind of like people who bought SAEs and other silver @ ~$50/oz and now it is under $20?
Or, like folks who bought 1999 silver proof sets for $400+ and they are now a lot less?
It happens.
On the flip side, there are folks who bought the 3pc 20th Annv SAE set for $100 and they are still above that. Or the 10th Annv 4pc gold + SAE for the issue price and it is still above that.
Winners and losers and sometimes it is hard to see into the future correctly.
(note: I have both winners and losers under my belt in the last 10 years, so I feel for both sides of the house)
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
This implies that having a large percentage of production with finned rims is acceptable, but it's not. Both QC and Production decided to ignore the problem and they apparently got away with it.
They must think that if demand is so good that a 66% markup over spot won't kill the market, nothing will.
At some point, it boils down to risk vs. reward and when you're starting out 66% in the hole, a widespread quality problem can't help you in the aftermarket. $250 for a PCGS-70 is a loss, after grading fees, shipping & handling & other selling costs.
I knew it would happen.
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
So all the coins that had the rim issues were "quality" and worthy of raises. Thats a good one.
Did the mint raise it's standards or did PCGS lower it's standards ???
90.32% MS70 on 25 percent of the total population.
If I was still managing a quality control dept., I'd be in the bosses office asking for a raise.
And if I was the Mfg. Dept. Mgr, I'd be asking for a raise, too.
Case study of improving perceived quality that results in lower prices.
"Some folks" just take shots at prices/dealers.
So all the coins that had the rim issues were "quality" and worthy of raises. Thats a good one.
Did the mint raise it's standards or did PCGS lower it's standards ???
One you may never see for a while ... a Mint Product... Merc PCGS 69 Gold Merc sells for only $7 dollars less than a PCGS 70
I would also expect an announcement for the SLQ soon, there's less than 6 months left on this year's schedule.
I would also expect an announcement for the SLQ soon, there's less than 6 months left on this year's schedule.
Maybe keep those 8900 to repackage with an SLQ and Walking Liberty. A 3 coin set limited to 8900
Maybe keep those 8900 to repackage with an SLQ and Walking Liberty. A 3 coin set limited to 8900
There's an idea.
However, instead of removing some of the SLQ and WLH mintage, create the three-coin sets entirely from the cancellations and returns of all three coins, however many sets that might be. (Probably returns/cancels of the half would be the determining factor.)
TPG wise, they may get a special label, but FS/ER would be out of the question because these coins were originally offered once, and are of the same batch. And they would always be known as the "leftover" coins.
I don't think I'd have a problem with that.
Current gold spot is hovering right around $1350.
Should spot be between $1300 and $1349, the price will be $485.
Should spot be between $1350 and $1399, the price will be $497.50.
Here's an enhance image from Coinworld's pic from CSNS:
Watch the new Standing Liberty gold quarter dollar coin being struck
http://www.coinworld.com/news/us-coins/2016/08/standing-liberty-gold-quarter-mintage-and-household-limit.html
National Commemorative Medals of the U.S. Mint:
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/medals-tokens/national-commemorative-medals-united-states-mint-1940-present/alltimeset/195526
Mintage 100,000 limit 1. Is that a guess ?
No, it's been released as 100k and 1/house.
linked
At least I won't have to decide how many to order... :-)
I suppose that means I'll get up at my normal time on the date of sale, have a nice breakfast, go for a long walk, spend some time with the slobbery dog and then buy it within the next couple days, afterward.
Standing Liberty 2016 Centennial Gold Coin (16XC)
(Images slightly enhanced)
Mintage Limit: 100,000
Product Limit: None
Household Order Limit: 1
Packaging remains the same as the dime.
Available September 8, at noon. Be there, or be elsewhere...
(Edited for more reasonably size images.)
INYNWHWeTrust-TexasNationals,ajaan,blu62vette
coinJP, Outhaul ,illini420,MICHAELDIXON, Fade to Black,epcjimi1,19Lyds,SNMAN,JerseyJoe, bigjpst, DMWJR , lordmarcovan, Weiss,Mfriday4962,UtahCoin,Downtown1974,pitboss,RichieURich,Bullsitter,JDsCoins,toyz4geo,jshaulis, mustanggt, SNMAN
I wonder what the ratio is of gold Mercs in collector hands vs. in dealer inventories right now.
Consistency has never been the Mint's strong suit.
How does this affect people's purchasing plans?
I knew it would happen.
Anybody think it's possible that sales won't reach 100,000? Consider that price is just about $500; and $5 commems never sell that many.
I wonder what the ratio is of gold Mercs in collector hands vs. in dealer inventories right now.
WAG'ing here.
Sales will have no problem reaching 100K, though it might take a few days with a HHL of 1. (Depends if the biggie coin marts and television hucksters get in it. I'm not sure this is going to be a big flip, so the flippers may stay away with an entry price of almost $500, almost $150 over spot.) 100K quarters will still only be 25K oz. The RP Buff took four days to reach 25K oz, the gold Kennedy sold over 42K oz the first day, and the 2014HR sold 36K oz the first day.
It's been 4.5 months since the dimes went on sale, so I'd think sales and resales are pretty much done, or at least stable, so I'd say most are with the collector.
The biggest inventory of gold mercs is still in the hands of the mint. There are still almost 8900 unsold coins. (Some may not be resaleable, so let's say 7500.) That's quite a number that will still be available (I assume) at mint issue price.
I'm in for one gold SLQ. I was going to get two, but don't feel the need to go out of my way to get another, since these are staying raw in my collection.
Anybody think it's possible that sales won't reach 100,000? Consider that price is just about $500; and $5 commems never sell that many.
I wonder what the ratio is of gold Mercs in collector hands vs. in dealer inventories right now.
Possible? Yes it's possible but it will sell-out barring some unforeseen event interrupting sales. The nice thing is it won't sell-out in a few minutes or probably not even in a few hours. It could take two or three days giving everyone a chance to get one if they wish.
So, why would anyone buy from a flipper? Maybe if it's slabbed with 70 grade.
Point is, I expect small flippers will stay away. Big dealers, who knows?
I do not expect a quick sellout.
Successful BST transactions with forum members thebigeng, SPalladino, Zoidmeister, coin22lover, coinsarefun, jwitten, CommemKing.
One for me, Sealed, and one for me, pocket piece.
Let us know how long it takes for the date to wear off.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Do the 1916 SLQ's have a hollowed out stem on the olive branch like the 2016 version does?
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
One for me, Sealed, and one for me, pocket piece.
Let us know how long it takes for the date to wear off.
Yeah I hear you, I just gotta find some jeans without the lined pockets. Any ideas?
One for me, Sealed, and one for me, pocket piece.
Let us know how long it takes for the date to wear off.
Yeah I hear you, I just gotta find some jeans without the lined pockets. Any ideas?
A pair of duck-twill (canvas) trousers or coveralls (Dickies, Carhart, etc...) may be in your future.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore...
IT IS NOW 09/16.
The US Mint released a press release today. Looks like these got the green light...
United States Mint Moves Forward with Plans to Commemorate 100th Anniversary of Three Iconic Coin Designs
and more to the point,
YOUR LINK IS DATED November 10, 2015.
IT IS NOW 09/16.
Craig list...
The US Mint released a press release today. Looks like these got the green light...
United States Mint Moves Forward with Plans to Commemorate 100th Anniversary of Three Iconic Coin Designs
and more to the point,
YOUR LINK IS DATED November 10, 2015.
IT IS NOW 09/16.
The US Mint released a press release today. Looks like these got the green light...
United States Mint Moves Forward with Plans to Commemorate 100th Anniversary of Three Iconic Coin Designs
and more to the point,
Well, yeah, but that was posted on November 10, 2015. (Yes, this thread had been around that long.)
Not sure what your point is...
Unless something drastic happens (like a +$50 or -$100 move on gold in the next 8 hours), it'll be $485, or just under $150 over spot.
At 100K and a HHL of 1, everyone who's online at noon and wants one will get one. All orders will be automatically upgraded to UPS Ground since it's a PM, so don't pay for expedited shipping.
I'm getting one (not bothering to try to game the system), and will remain raw like the gold Mercs I have.
WAG: It may be a sub-one hour sell out if the flippers and dealers jump on this, though I haven't heard of biggie coin mart or the TV hucksters offering premiums for ordering one for them. (That could happen today.) On the other hand, if it takes more than two days to sell out, prices will be flat and this'll become a flipper's nightmare. With twice the amount of gold available (12.5K oz vs. 25K oz) and a HHL of 1 oz for the Mercs down to 0.25 oz for the SLQ, we're essentially seeing 8 times the availability. I think this is a 24+ hour sell-out, but I've been waaaay wrong before on issues like this.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
Anyone know when the mint will set the price for these coins?
Within a hour or 2. Watching for an update