I guess PCGS meant the "hair" had been cleaned on the '04 S Half, hence the different look. I really can't believe that coin is in a holder.
Here's another new Barber Dime for my Everyman Set. I purchased a 1902 O in a ICG MS 62 holder at a very good price. It looked like there was a rub on it so I cracked it out and submitted to PCGS raw. It came back in an AU 58 holder:
Yep, the dark circle in the middle of the reverse is just toning. Perhaps it was sitting atop a Tom Thumb mini doughnut for a while?
I submitted another raw find 1902 O Dime at the same time; it came back in an AU 55 holder so I'll be selling it. This is a little tougher date.
Both the '92-P and '02-O dimes are pretty nifty Jeff. '02-O looks like it was sitting on a washer for a number of years - perhaps in a drawer. Nice deal to get that one in a '58 holder! good for your Everyman set.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Consensus re-engraved on that '04s half. I guess they should have designated tooled rather than cleaned. Many cleaned coins are still collectable, but a Tooled coin is quite another story.
What a shame.
We're all born MS70. I'm about a Fine 15 right now.
You can see a positional mintmark difference on these two 1904-O quarters side-by-side - I added lines to help see the differences. Jeff, I hope you don't mind I used a close-up of the reverse of your coin in addition to my own:
I own two other more circulated '04-O's but don't have good pictures of those. The second one seems more of the same placement as Jeff's. The first of the two shown here may be a third position or may be the same with a slightly different angle:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
There are a lot of distinctively different MM variences in Barber Quarters. Since they were placed by eyeball it makes sense. I suppose the placement is so much more varied on the Quarter than the Half because of the die size; the Quarter would be much more difficult to see in a room with poor lighting. It's a wonder the mint workers were able to produce much at all considering the working conditions.
Good thoughts. Like withe the '12-D halves shared earlier and these '04-O quarters, the MM shapes and sizes can also be slightly different... from thin to thick (whether overall MM size or the raised puncheon lines for letter edging) to wider and more pronounced styles. In other words, if you look at the D's on the reverse of the 1912-D half dollars here, you can see the puncheon size difference.... not as wide to wider in the following instance:
I think this is fascinating.
T
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
This one tilts down a bit. I'm guessing there is no study done on all the MM variations yet; sounds like a great project for Tim. Let us know when you're done.
Here's a Barber Quarter fresh from the grading room. I purchased a 1908 O 25C in an old ANACS 61 holder seeing some rub. I cracked it and submitted it raw; it came back in a PC AU 58 holder:
Jeff, Do you think your '12-D matches the 2nd of the 4 pictures I shared earlier? The second picture doesn't seem quite like a straight-on 90° from-the-object type of picture but it does seem tucked up close to the tail feathers, tilted the same way, and about the same size MM.
@sedulous said:
Since I mentioned the '12-D, here is an example of what I see as different MM positions or mintmark placement:
T
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
How would you all suggest the positional varieties be presented? I have previously shared top to bottom images or side by side adding line aids. How much of the reverse detail around the MM should show? Thanks.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@sedulous said:
How would you all suggest the positional varieties be presented? I have previously shared top to bottom images or side by side adding line aids. How much of the reverse detail around the MM should show? Thanks.
I think the size you previously is about right. Personally I thisk there's enough differance between the ones posted that no overlay linework is needed, but there are likely many much more minor differances that would need the linework to demonstrate variances.
Last fall I purchased a couple of 1902 O AU Dimes. Apparently I also purchased a 1902 AU "P" mint as well. Around the end of the year I filled out my submission form online with two 1902 O Dimes listed. The coins were sent and I received them back a few weeks ago.
One of the 1902 O Dimes came back as a 58; I posted it here a few days ago. He said the coin I posted didn't have a reverse mintmark. I was at the office at the time and couldn't check it out, but I assumed I mixed up the reverse photos. Upon arriving home last night I took the coin out and looked at it- there was no mintmark on the reverse. WHAT???
My immediate reaction was that PCGS mixed up coins and put someone's "P" mint coin in my holder. I went to my Purchased items on eBay to look up the '02 O I purchased; it didn't look at all like the coin in my holder. Then I started wondering if the seller sent me the wrong coin? I was getting ready to write the seller when I noticed that I had RETURNED the coin. I looked for an '02 "P" mint purchase and found one; the photos matched the coin in my '02 O holder.
The light bulb went off; when I was filling out the submission form I remembered the two '02 O Dimes but forgot I didn't keep one. I sent my '02 "P" in and claimed it as an "O" mint coin on my submission form (not intentionally).
The coin was entered on "My Orders" page as a '02 O Dime, and when the grades were posted it was still listed as a 1902 O Dime. I didn't realize the mistake until last night.
Although the initial mistake was mine, I'm surprised the error wasn't caught when it was entered into the system or by the graders. Perhaps it's really an O less dime lime the cent? Well, here it is:
I'm trying to decide if I should get it fixed or keep it.
Jeff... I spotted an 1902 Dime of yours on eBay - and while looking for the Mint Mark
( and not finding it - decided I really do need to get my eyes rechecked !! ) Turning 70 leads
me to believe there are a few things that need a tune up !!
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Darrell has a good point ... I assume you'll be at ANA next month ?
They'll fix it for you - and have it ready by the end of the weekend -
or you can request they mail it back to you.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Unfortunately from what I understand PCGS is only accepting submissions at the Orlando ANA show. They are not grading on site.
@MFH said:
Darrell has a good point ... I assume you'll be at ANA next month ?
They'll fix it for you - and have it ready by the end of the weekend -
or you can request they mail it back to you.
Jeff
I had a half labeled as a quarter a couple years ago. Dropped it off at Central States. I needed the holder corrected so I could enter it in my Registry Set. They corrected and shipped it to me at no charge. As long as they are accepting at ANA you should be fine.
Jim
Tim - The size you posted the MM's earlier looked good to me, also, you might look at other reference books for a format. I look forward to seeing your series in the BCCS journal.
Jeff - Unless you need the 02-P dime for your registry, I'd suggest keeping it as is. You could become an "error" slab collector.
Pics for this PM, was in my friend Elmo's collection, NGC-58:
Vern l It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Tim... That's a nice looking Quarter - even if its tagged wrong !
Jeff... Vern might be onto something there... you could easily flip into
an error Barber slab Collector....who'd a thunk it ?!!
Any idea how tough an 1883 No Cents V Nickel in PR is to find ?
Especially with a Green Bean... even more so with a CAM Designation ?
This isn't all that expensive a coin - but - it'll slip right in with the others
I have { 1882 - "J - 1690 " PCGS 64 CAM } { 1883 - With Cents - PCGS PR 64 }
Today's NEWP:
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
I have a 10-S Half PCGS 30 holdered as a 1907-O! I also have a 1904-S Half PCGS F15 holdered as a 1904-P Jeff...any interest for your slab error collection?
So Registry points would be given out for slab quality? not just the grade on the slab? boy, I will have to start doubling up on my Ziploc bags around my 3rd party tombs.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I have no interest in "error" slabs. I tried to sell a few I had previously on eBay for a small premium over what the coin was worth; there was interest. My guess is there few people who would place a premium value on them.
Thanks, Jeff. You're about the only one who has a true liking of the V Nickel design.
I'm still amazed how hard it was to find the N/C CAM in a CAC holder was !
I received my HA.COM FUN Statement yesterday. I didn't study it until this morning.
I had 9 coins auctioned at the actual FUN sale - the balance of the coins were placed
on the Internet Only Weekly auctions in late January.
It seems one coin was returned... I never heard that it was possible to return an auctioned/ sold
coin. I thought all sales were final. "Its not what you know - its who you know !"
Anyone see anything wrong with this 1892-O Half PCGS 50 ? Anything that would preclude sending it back ?
I purchased this coin from AMWORLD - Darrell Kreiss's Images::
Michael Valente's Images:
Here are HA's images...
I paid $300 more for this coin than what it "sold" for..... actually, I'm happy to take it back.
Mike Hayes ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
Mike- you're wrong about me being the only one who likes the Liberty Nickel design....... you do as well!
To me the '92 O coin looks more like a 45 than a 50, but that's evident in all of the photos. I don't see that there was any misrepresentation in the HA photos (although I like the middle images the best). There are no evident problems with the coin that I see. I didn't know the coins were returnable either, but I suppose if someone maks a claim on a credit card anything can happen....
Comments
I guess PCGS meant the "hair" had been cleaned on the '04 S Half, hence the different look. I really can't believe that coin is in a holder.
Here's another new Barber Dime for my Everyman Set. I purchased a 1902 O in a ICG MS 62 holder at a very good price. It looked like there was a rub on it so I cracked it out and submitted to PCGS raw. It came back in an AU 58 holder:
Yep, the dark circle in the middle of the reverse is just toning. Perhaps it was sitting atop a Tom Thumb mini doughnut for a while?
I submitted another raw find 1902 O Dime at the same time; it came back in an AU 55 holder so I'll be selling it. This is a little tougher date.
Both the '92-P and '02-O dimes are pretty nifty Jeff. '02-O looks like it was sitting on a washer for a number of years - perhaps in a drawer. Nice deal to get that one in a '58 holder! good for your Everyman set.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I guess a washer makes more sense than a doughnut.
Consensus re-engraved on that '04s half. I guess they should have designated tooled rather than cleaned. Many cleaned coins are still collectable, but a Tooled coin is quite another story.
What a shame.
Would a tooled coin like that make it into a Genuine holder?
You can see a positional mintmark difference on these two 1904-O quarters side-by-side - I added lines to help see the differences. Jeff, I hope you don't mind I used a close-up of the reverse of your coin in addition to my own:
I own two other more circulated '04-O's but don't have good pictures of those. The second one seems more of the same placement as Jeff's. The first of the two shown here may be a third position or may be the same with a slightly different angle:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Good detective work.
There are a lot of distinctively different MM variences in Barber Quarters. Since they were placed by eyeball it makes sense. I suppose the placement is so much more varied on the Quarter than the Half because of the die size; the Quarter would be much more difficult to see in a room with poor lighting. It's a wonder the mint workers were able to produce much at all considering the working conditions.
Good thoughts. Like withe the '12-D halves shared earlier and these '04-O quarters, the MM shapes and sizes can also be slightly different... from thin to thick (whether overall MM size or the raised puncheon lines for letter edging) to wider and more pronounced styles. In other words, if you look at the D's on the reverse of the 1912-D half dollars here, you can see the puncheon size difference.... not as wide to wider in the following instance:
I think this is fascinating.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
A recent raw pick-up. '11-P VF30 estimated. Anyone care to put in their GTG?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Looks like a 30 to me.
Agree on 30 Looks mildy broad struck
I'll go 30 on the '11 Quarter as well.
Here's another '12 D Mintmark:
This one tilts down a bit. I'm guessing there is no study done on all the MM variations yet; sounds like a great project for Tim. Let us know when you're done.
Here's a Barber Quarter fresh from the grading room. I purchased a 1908 O 25C in an old ANACS 61 holder seeing some rub. I cracked it and submitted it raw; it came back in a PC AU 58 holder:
Fortunately I picked it up for AU 55 money.
Holy smokes, beautiful reverse!
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Just to be contrary, I'll go VF 25 on the 1911 Quarter.
That ANACS 08-O in 61 - has a pleasant look - and as Tim said
Holy Smokes, beautiful Reverse !! Ya aint just whistling Dixie there !!
I like the coin very much as a 58 - glad you crossed it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Jeff, Do you think your '12-D matches the 2nd of the 4 pictures I shared earlier? The second picture doesn't seem quite like a straight-on 90° from-the-object type of picture but it does seem tucked up close to the tail feathers, tilted the same way, and about the same size MM.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I see 4 different MM placements above.
The 1st D is high with its top parallel to the tail feathers.
The 2nd D is high with its top tilting down to the right.
The 3rd is low with its top parallel to the tail feathers.
The 4th is middle with its top tilted down to the right.
My guess is there are more variations as well. I find it interesting to compare them like that.
So is it time for someone to start the VAM or Overton equivalent of Barber Coins?
Tim volunteered. It will be announced in the next BCCS Journal.
Tim - That's a nice 04-O qtr in XF. Tough coin. I'll go with Mike and guess our hosts said 25 on your 11-P.
Dennis - Definitely re-engraved IMO. Interesting our hosts missed that.
Jeff - Really like your 02-O dime. Reverse has character.
Tim - You've got a lot of work ahead of you on barber varieties. Good luck.
Pics for this AM, from my raw set:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
How would you all suggest the positional varieties be presented? I have previously shared top to bottom images or side by side adding line aids. How much of the reverse detail around the MM should show? Thanks.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I think the size you previously is about right. Personally I thisk there's enough differance between the ones posted that no overlay linework is needed, but there are likely many much more minor differances that would need the linework to demonstrate variances.
Here's another one of my raw finds back from the grading room, a 1915 D 25C that returned in an AU 58 holder:
It's a common date, but it upgrades my AU 55 (which sold immediately on eBay).
Very nice Jeff. I like the luster and gentle toning on that '15-D. John F. has my introductory article in hand for the next Journal.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Excellent find, Jeff. I'd love to know why it's not a 58+ ?
What am I missing ? Better Glasses ?? Lol
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
So I have a little egg on my face.
Last fall I purchased a couple of 1902 O AU Dimes. Apparently I also purchased a 1902 AU "P" mint as well. Around the end of the year I filled out my submission form online with two 1902 O Dimes listed. The coins were sent and I received them back a few weeks ago.
One of the 1902 O Dimes came back as a 58; I posted it here a few days ago. He said the coin I posted didn't have a reverse mintmark. I was at the office at the time and couldn't check it out, but I assumed I mixed up the reverse photos. Upon arriving home last night I took the coin out and looked at it- there was no mintmark on the reverse. WHAT???
My immediate reaction was that PCGS mixed up coins and put someone's "P" mint coin in my holder. I went to my Purchased items on eBay to look up the '02 O I purchased; it didn't look at all like the coin in my holder. Then I started wondering if the seller sent me the wrong coin? I was getting ready to write the seller when I noticed that I had RETURNED the coin. I looked for an '02 "P" mint purchase and found one; the photos matched the coin in my '02 O holder.
The light bulb went off; when I was filling out the submission form I remembered the two '02 O Dimes but forgot I didn't keep one. I sent my '02 "P" in and claimed it as an "O" mint coin on my submission form (not intentionally).
The coin was entered on "My Orders" page as a '02 O Dime, and when the grades were posted it was still listed as a 1902 O Dime. I didn't realize the mistake until last night.
Although the initial mistake was mine, I'm surprised the error wasn't caught when it was entered into the system or by the graders. Perhaps it's really an O less dime lime the cent? Well, here it is:
I'm trying to decide if I should get it fixed or keep it.
Jeff... I spotted an 1902 Dime of yours on eBay - and while looking for the Mint Mark
( and not finding it - decided I really do need to get my eyes rechecked !! ) Turning 70 leads
me to believe there are a few things that need a tune up !!
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
I wonder what would happen if I submit this coin on the "Guarantee Resubmission" tier?
Its not the correct venue for that coin.
Send it back as a "Mechanical Error" at No Charge.
Its their job to catch errors.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
They will do it for free at a show if they are grading at the show. Saves you on shipping if you are not in a hurry!
Darrell has a good point ... I assume you'll be at ANA next month ?
They'll fix it for you - and have it ready by the end of the weekend -
or you can request they mail it back to you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Yep- I'll bring it to them at the show.
Unfortunately from what I understand PCGS is only accepting submissions at the Orlando ANA show. They are not grading on site.
Jeff
I had a half labeled as a quarter a couple years ago. Dropped it off at Central States. I needed the holder corrected so I could enter it in my Registry Set. They corrected and shipped it to me at no charge. As long as they are accepting at ANA you should be fine.
Jim
Tim - The size you posted the MM's earlier looked good to me, also, you might look at other reference books for a format. I look forward to seeing your series in the BCCS journal.
Jeff - Unless you need the 02-P dime for your registry, I'd suggest keeping it as is. You could become an "error" slab collector.
Pics for this PM, was in my friend Elmo's collection, NGC-58:
l
It's not having what you want, it's wanting what you've got.
Speaking on error slabs, there is one on Ebay for an '07-O XF quarter in an '07-D holder:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232230139201?redirect=mobile
They are out there...
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Tim... That's a nice looking Quarter - even if its tagged wrong !
Jeff... Vern might be onto something there... you could easily flip into
an error Barber slab Collector....who'd a thunk it ?!!
Any idea how tough an 1883 No Cents V Nickel in PR is to find ?
Especially with a Green Bean... even more so with a CAM Designation ?
This isn't all that expensive a coin - but - it'll slip right in with the others
I have { 1882 - "J - 1690 " PCGS 64 CAM } { 1883 - With Cents - PCGS PR 64 }
Today's NEWP:
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
I have a 10-S Half PCGS 30 holdered as a 1907-O! I also have a 1904-S Half PCGS F15 holdered as a 1904-P Jeff...any interest for your slab error collection?
Do you think PCGS will start a Registry Set for error slabs?
So Registry points would be given out for slab quality? not just the grade on the slab? boy, I will have to start doubling up on my Ziploc bags around my 3rd party tombs.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I have no interest in "error" slabs. I tried to sell a few I had previously on eBay for a small premium over what the coin was worth; there was interest. My guess is there few people who would place a premium value on them.
By the way Mike- I like your new Proof Nickel!
Grades Posted in my grading contest. Don't smack the promoter!
Did anyone win?
There's no way I think anyone could win...unless they played the game like the lottery!
Thanks, Jeff. You're about the only one who has a true liking of the V Nickel design.
I'm still amazed how hard it was to find the N/C CAM in a CAC holder was !
I received my HA.COM FUN Statement yesterday. I didn't study it until this morning.
I had 9 coins auctioned at the actual FUN sale - the balance of the coins were placed
on the Internet Only Weekly auctions in late January.
It seems one coin was returned... I never heard that it was possible to return an auctioned/ sold
coin. I thought all sales were final. "Its not what you know - its who you know !"
Anyone see anything wrong with this 1892-O Half PCGS 50 ? Anything that would preclude sending it back ?
I purchased this coin from AMWORLD - Darrell Kreiss's Images::
Michael Valente's Images:
Here are HA's images...
I paid $300 more for this coin than what it "sold" for..... actually, I'm happy to take it back.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coin collecting is not a hobby, it's an obsession !
New Barber Purchases
Mike- you're wrong about me being the only one who likes the Liberty Nickel design....... you do as well!
To me the '92 O coin looks more like a 45 than a 50, but that's evident in all of the photos. I don't see that there was any misrepresentation in the HA photos (although I like the middle images the best). There are no evident problems with the coin that I see. I didn't know the coins were returnable either, but I suppose if someone maks a claim on a credit card anything can happen....
I know someone who likes the Liberty Nickel design.
Mike, Maybe they were turned off by the fact that it wasn't a micro-O after all for that '92-O half?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.