Been taking time to attribute some coins recently...what are the diagnostics for a Type III OBV on the 1900-o. Here's my PC65 for reference.
Thanks, Hill.
@Hhhinkleiii said:
Thanks Jeff, so you agree this is a III/III? H
Yes, Definitely. Here are the PUP'S (Pick-Up-Points) to look for:
Ear cartilage visibility has traditionally been an indicator but the aperture between the two center strokes of the "W" not having a crossbar is the ley to Type III. For the Reverse, traditionally you see the wingtip extend beyond the text lettering. One good method is to clue in on the viewer's left eagle wingtip on the Reverse. Your coin shows it beyond the top of the "E" in UNITED. That indicates a Type III Reverse.
Tim
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@JeffMTampa Jeff, They seem to use a hard white coated-cardboard backing with a plastic foldover type of holder then staple it firmly... (so much so you don't want to break it out of its casement and put it under your digital camera)
They rubber band the provenance to the auction house holder.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@sedulous said: @JeffMTampa Jeff, They seem to use a hard white coated-cardboard backing with a plastic foldover type of holder then staple it firmly... (so much so you don't want to break it out of its casement and put it under your digital camera)
They rubber band the provenance to the auction house holder.
@sedulous said: @JeffMTampa Jeff, They seem to use a hard white coated-cardboard backing with a plastic foldover type of holder then staple it firmly... (so much so you don't want to break it out of its casement and put it under your digital camera)
They rubber band the provenance to the auction house holder.
@sedulous said: @JeffMTampa Jeff, They seem to use a hard white coated-cardboard backing with a plastic foldover type of holder then staple it firmly... (so much so you don't want to break it out of its casement and put it under your digital camera)
They rubber band the provenance to the auction house holder.
Aahhh…. So they do sell raw coins. I haven’t seen a raw coin in a Heritage Auction previously. And the rubber band is a collectible- cool!
The rubber bands don't hold up very well over time tho, is the problem.
I plan to add these upgrades to my Dansco set and they'll be sure to make the neighbors look sort of cruddy:
To bring this up from the 3rd page, I'll share my first acquisition of 2023, I have a weakness when it comes to '03 S quarters. In my world I rank them #4 right behind the big three ('01S, 13S, and '96S) Anyone agree or have comments?
The new one will join my VF-35
Raw- 30 ish
And F-12
@jedm Jed, the '03-S is a scarcer date for sure. Mintage is 1,036,000. I do see this date from time to time but I am of the opinion you will find some other dates to be more difficult to obtain in mid-circulated grades (focusing in on F to XF). '03-S is still above the median so it is a good date to obtain.
Once again, considering Fine to XF grades for Barber Quarters, from my data analysis where I am using the BCCS Survey results, the big-3 is obvious for rarity as shown in the chart. We next step into the lower mintage '99-S (mintage on par with the '09-O: 708,000 vs. 712,000), the '97-O, and my favorite sleeper date: the '06-O which you never see in XF (after many years I am still looking). The '99-S is tough in VF (verified by population reports). The '97-O also is seen as XF-tough but the keyword of "quality" should be coupled to that attribute - that is where it gets difficult. You will also see the '92-S and '96-O right in there. The '03-S is a little bit further down the totem pole. My opinion from my analysis.
The '09-O starts to get tough at XF... especially in AU... but it is not as bad in F and VF (which is where the range of this data is more centered). The '14-S seems a bit overrated... the '13-P even more so. You get the idea.
Tim.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Very interesting research Tim. I had a feeling that my assertion would draw comments and discussion that is very welcome and acknowledged. Who knows why I had such an idea in the first place? My grandpas were 8 and 11 in 1903 so maybe it was an important date to them.
I am with Jeff, my '06-O's are either lower VF or an AU58 like I show below. The XF45 level I never see, is pop'd due to resubmissions, or is long-held in tightly held collections (like the '01-O Barber Half in AU58, right Jeff? @JeffMTampa... there are none CAC'd and 8 in the AU58 pop for PCGS).
1906-O PC20 CAC:
Another low-end VF:
The '06-O I have in PC58. A bit of an older holder too:
If anyone has XF 1906-O Barber Quarters, please let me know. In XF45 PCGS, the population is 9. For XF40, the pop is 6... and only 1 of those 6 have CAC. No CAC awarded for the XF45's.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Here is a newp. 1911-P BQ. What actions would you recommend for this coin? I could return it. Around the stars, date, and lower portion of Liberty's neck are green verdigris-looking gunk. What about professional restoration? or should I open the pkg and acetone it? The seller dealer called it AU but I am trying to get XF which I think this is.
Thanks.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@JeffMTampa said:
The coin looks original to me. I don’t believe acetone would do much (or anything) to remove the scrounge embedded around the devices.
I see it as a XF 45, but others would likely see it as a 40. I don’t think it’s a bad looking coin if the price reflected the issues.
I am glad how others, believing their coins are AU, turn in to my targeted XF grades. Perfect scenarios to fill my goals.
I am trying to ask if the issues can be nullified Jeff? if not, a return is forthcoming.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I agree with Jeff. I think a 40-45. The marks on the neck and cheek would be very evident if the thick toning is removed. I would return it. But JMO.
Good luck.
At the FUN show January 2021 (Summer due to Covid) Dave Earp (Treasurer of BCCS) showed me 14 Barber Quarter varieties. Since I was commuting between Tampa and Orlando for the show, I offered to photograph them when I returned home that evening. Most had been previously identified/ documented, but I could not find any previous documentation on a few. One the stood out to me was an 1899 BQ with an RPD. There are 3 1899 RPD's shown in Kevin Flynns BQ variety book, but Dave's coin wasn't one of them. It showed strong re-punching at the "8" and last "9". It also had a large die chip at the end of the right wingtip on the reverse.
Last week I was looking at some Barber Quarters on eBay looking for varieties. It can be rather difficult, because most of the posting photographs are of poor quality- tough to see any detail. When I was looking at the 1899 BQ I noticed a coin with a large die chip on the reverse. It brought back a memory of Dave's coin. I looked back at the photos I took of Dave's coin and sure enough the die chip matched. Looking closely at the OBV listing photos I could see a feint outline of an RPM last 9. I purchased the coin, hoping that it was indeed the variety assumed.
The coin arrived yesterday in the mail- it was indeed a coin matching Dave's variety:
My extreme macro setup is packed in a suitcase (I'm taking it to the FUN show this Thursday- Saturday to shoot any varieties people might have). I'll shoot better photos of the RPM when my setup is back in operation. I think it's a pretty cool variety, and now we have 2 known examples. Anyone else have one?
With Dave's permission, I'll post photos of some of his varieties that I photographed.
FUN show today! my first visit to this show. See you all at the BCCS booth or the BCCS meeting on Friday afternoon. I will have specimens of Barbers available for viewing and discussion.
Jeff and I will have a varieties presentation for everyone.
Tim
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Am I squinting way too hard and trying to imagine that the following 1893 dime is probably a 3/2 overdate? Would really appreciate your inputs and thanks in advance.
@vulcanize I see something but pictures would need to be improved to make any positive attribution.
Contact varieties@barbercoins.org for discussing it.
There needs to be enough visible to determine it looks like this. Notice the horizontal raised area in the lower counter-opening and the line in the upper portion:
Tim
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
The proof 1907 quarter and half are slightly elusive, and they tend not to come particularly nice....Minting quality was "off" it seems in 07, and 08 timeframe for unknown reasons. This is a PF-65 CAC, and I think it deserves the sticker.
I showed this half dollar at the FUN show and received feedback that is coin should be an UNC and not graded at a level where it is currently placed within an AU58 holder:
Tim
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@jedm said:
The rubber bands don't hold up very well over time tho, is the problem.
I plan to add these upgrades to my Dansco set and they'll be sure to make the neighbors look sort of cruddy:
@sedulous said:
I showed this half dollar at the FUN show and received feedback that is coin should be an UNC and not graded at a level where it is currently placed within an AU58 holder:
@jedm Jed, the '03-S is a scarcer date for sure. Mintage is 1,036,000. I do see this date from time to time but I am of the opinion you will find some other dates to be more difficult to obtain in mid-circulated grades (focusing in on F to XF). '03-S is still above the median so it is a good date to obtain.
Once again, considering Fine to XF grades for Barber Quarters, from my data analysis where I am using the BCCS Survey results, the big-3 is obvious for rarity as shown in the chart. We next step into the lower mintage '99-S (mintage on par with the '09-O: 708,000 vs. 712,000), the '97-O, and my favorite sleeper date: the '06-O which you never see in XF (after many years I am still looking). The '99-S is tough in VF (verified by population reports). The '97-O also is seen as XF-tough but the keyword of "quality" should be coupled to that attribute - that is where it gets difficult. You will also see the '92-S and '96-O right in there. The '03-S is a little bit further down the totem pole. My opinion from my analysis.
The '09-O starts to get tough at XF... especially in AU... but it is not as bad in F and VF (which is where the range of this data is more centered). The '14-S seems a bit overrated... the '13-P even more so. You get the idea.
Tim.
@JeffMTampa... So Jeff, are you thinking I should conduct an Everyman-type of analysis for each series using the same approach? My emphasis here was to get a feeling for the rarity of VF and XF in the Barber Quarters. Perhaps I should do an XF to AU analysis of Barber Halves, Barber Quarters and Dimes?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@jedm Jed, the '03-S is a scarcer date for sure. Mintage is 1,036,000. I do see this date from time to time but I am of the opinion you will find some other dates to be more difficult to obtain in mid-circulated grades (focusing in on F to XF). '03-S is still above the median so it is a good date to obtain.
Once again, considering Fine to XF grades for Barber Quarters, from my data analysis where I am using the BCCS Survey results, the big-3 is obvious for rarity as shown in the chart. We next step into the lower mintage '99-S (mintage on par with the '09-O: 708,000 vs. 712,000), the '97-O, and my favorite sleeper date: the '06-O which you never see in XF (after many years I am still looking). The '99-S is tough in VF (verified by population reports). The '97-O also is seen as XF-tough but the keyword of "quality" should be coupled to that attribute - that is where it gets difficult. You will also see the '92-S and '96-O right in there. The '03-S is a little bit further down the totem pole. My opinion from my analysis.
The '09-O starts to get tough at XF... especially in AU... but it is not as bad in F and VF (which is where the range of this data is more centered). The '14-S seems a bit overrated... the '13-P even more so. You get the idea.
Tim.
@JeffMTampa... So Jeff, are you thinking I should conduct an Everyman-type of analysis for each series using the same approach? My emphasis here was to get a feeling for the rarity of VF and XF in the Barber Quarters. Perhaps I should do an XF to AU analysis of Barber Halves, Barber Quarters and Dimes?
@jedm Jed, the '03-S is a scarcer date for sure. Mintage is 1,036,000. I do see this date from time to time but I am of the opinion you will find some other dates to be more difficult to obtain in mid-circulated grades (focusing in on F to XF). '03-S is still above the median so it is a good date to obtain.
Once again, considering Fine to XF grades for Barber Quarters, from my data analysis where I am using the BCCS Survey results, the big-3 is obvious for rarity as shown in the chart. We next step into the lower mintage '99-S (mintage on par with the '09-O: 708,000 vs. 712,000), the '97-O, and my favorite sleeper date: the '06-O which you never see in XF (after many years I am still looking). The '99-S is tough in VF (verified by population reports). The '97-O also is seen as XF-tough but the keyword of "quality" should be coupled to that attribute - that is where it gets difficult. You will also see the '92-S and '96-O right in there. The '03-S is a little bit further down the totem pole. My opinion from my analysis.
The '09-O starts to get tough at XF... especially in AU... but it is not as bad in F and VF (which is where the range of this data is more centered). The '14-S seems a bit overrated... the '13-P even more so. You get the idea.
Tim.
@JeffMTampa... So Jeff, are you thinking I should conduct an Everyman-type of analysis for each series using the same approach? My emphasis here was to get a feeling for the rarity of VF and XF in the Barber Quarters. Perhaps I should do an XF to AU analysis of Barber Halves, Barber Quarters and Dimes?
I really like your previous analysis on the Quarters- it was very insightful. A similar analysis on XF to AU would likely reveal equally interesting information. But I know it’s a lot of effort to produce and time is always an obstacle.
My comment on your 1900 S Half- it has much greater value and interest to collectors in an AU 58 holder than a 62 to 63.
Comments
I've recently purchased this 1903 with the intention to upgrade my Dansco set:
PCGS MS-64+ CAC......
Another dime back from CAC, MS-64...
Been taking time to attribute some coins recently...what are the diagnostics for a Type III OBV on the 1900-o. Here's my PC65 for reference.
Thanks, Hill.
Very nice coin- great toning. The 1900 O Type III/ III is a tougher variety to find.
Interesting how the reverse is struck on a damaged planchet; not unusual for New Orleans.
Thanks Jeff, so you agree this is a III/III? H
Frosty pair!
Yes, Definitely. Here are the PUP'S (Pick-Up-Points) to look for:
Ear cartilage visibility has traditionally been an indicator but the aperture between the two center strokes of the "W" not having a crossbar is the ley to Type III. For the Reverse, traditionally you see the wingtip extend beyond the text lettering. One good method is to clue in on the viewer's left eagle wingtip on the Reverse. Your coin shows it beyond the top of the "E" in UNITED. That indicates a Type III Reverse.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
PCGS AU-58, CAC added...
This is a unique newp that just arrived today. A counterstamped '94-O Barber Half Dollar!
STERLING KNIFE CO NEW YORK Photos courtesy of Heritage Auctions.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I guess that was an inexpensive form of advertisement at one time.
I see the images are provided by Heritage Auctions. I don't believe they sell raw coins, so presumably, it's in a holder of some sort?
@JeffMTampa Jeff, They seem to use a hard white coated-cardboard backing with a plastic foldover type of holder then staple it firmly... (so much so you don't want to break it out of its casement and put it under your digital camera)
They rubber band the provenance to the auction house holder.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Aahhh…. So they do sell raw coins. I haven’t seen a raw coin in a Heritage Auction previously. And the rubber band is a collectible- cool!
The rubber bands don't hold up very well over time tho, is the problem.
I plan to add these upgrades to my Dansco set and they'll be sure to make the neighbors look sort of cruddy:
Nice coins as always @jedm Jed... in the same vein of grade, here is my first purchase of 2023. A 1911-S Barber Quarter VF30 PCGS for Set #2:
Happy New Year!
Tim
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
This 1910 in PC30 @paesan Lenny helped me obtain. Thanks Lenny!
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
@sedulous Tim your 30 set is coming along nicely!
To bring this up from the 3rd page, I'll share my first acquisition of 2023, I have a weakness when it comes to '03 S quarters. In my world I rank them #4 right behind the big three ('01S, 13S, and '96S) Anyone agree or have comments?
The new one will join my VF-35
Raw- 30 ish
And F-12
@jedm Jed, the '03-S is a scarcer date for sure. Mintage is 1,036,000. I do see this date from time to time but I am of the opinion you will find some other dates to be more difficult to obtain in mid-circulated grades (focusing in on F to XF). '03-S is still above the median so it is a good date to obtain.
Once again, considering Fine to XF grades for Barber Quarters, from my data analysis where I am using the BCCS Survey results, the big-3 is obvious for rarity as shown in the chart. We next step into the lower mintage '99-S (mintage on par with the '09-O: 708,000 vs. 712,000), the '97-O, and my favorite sleeper date: the '06-O which you never see in XF (after many years I am still looking). The '99-S is tough in VF (verified by population reports). The '97-O also is seen as XF-tough but the keyword of "quality" should be coupled to that attribute - that is where it gets difficult. You will also see the '92-S and '96-O right in there. The '03-S is a little bit further down the totem pole. My opinion from my analysis.
The '09-O starts to get tough at XF... especially in AU... but it is not as bad in F and VF (which is where the range of this data is more centered). The '14-S seems a bit overrated... the '13-P even more so. You get the idea.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Interesting chart, Tim; thanks for putting it together. I suspect the results would look very different if it only inly included XF to AU coins.
Here's my '06 O Quarter:
A little better than XF. It can be taken out of the holder and roughed up a bit if needed.
Very interesting research Tim. I had a feeling that my assertion would draw comments and discussion that is very welcome and acknowledged. Who knows why I had such an idea in the first place? My grandpas were 8 and 11 in 1903 so maybe it was an important date to them.
Agree that the '06 is a tough one. Here's my lone certified example VF-30
I am with Jeff, my '06-O's are either lower VF or an AU58 like I show below. The XF45 level I never see, is pop'd due to resubmissions, or is long-held in tightly held collections (like the '01-O Barber Half in AU58, right Jeff? @JeffMTampa... there are none CAC'd and 8 in the AU58 pop for PCGS).
1906-O PC20 CAC:
Another low-end VF:
The '06-O I have in PC58. A bit of an older holder too:
If anyone has XF 1906-O Barber Quarters, please let me know. In XF45 PCGS, the population is 9. For XF40, the pop is 6... and only 1 of those 6 have CAC. No CAC awarded for the XF45's.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Here is a newp. 1911-P BQ. What actions would you recommend for this coin? I could return it. Around the stars, date, and lower portion of Liberty's neck are green verdigris-looking gunk. What about professional restoration? or should I open the pkg and acetone it? The seller dealer called it AU but I am trying to get XF which I think this is.
Thanks.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
The coin looks original to me. I don’t believe acetone would do much (or anything) to remove the scrounge embedded around the devices.
I see it as a XF 45, but others would likely see it as a 40. I don’t think it’s a bad looking coin if the price reflected the issues.
I am glad how others, believing their coins are AU, turn in to my targeted XF grades. Perfect scenarios to fill my goals.
I am trying to ask if the issues can be nullified Jeff? if not, a return is forthcoming.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Tim- I'm fairly confident the raised debris would come off. but the coin would be stained in those areas. My view is it would be best left as-is.
That's a return for me then. I would rather leave the green for the Grinch.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I agree with Jeff. I think a 40-45. The marks on the neck and cheek would be very evident if the thick toning is removed. I would return it. But JMO.
Good luck.
At the FUN show January 2021 (Summer due to Covid) Dave Earp (Treasurer of BCCS) showed me 14 Barber Quarter varieties. Since I was commuting between Tampa and Orlando for the show, I offered to photograph them when I returned home that evening. Most had been previously identified/ documented, but I could not find any previous documentation on a few. One the stood out to me was an 1899 BQ with an RPD. There are 3 1899 RPD's shown in Kevin Flynns BQ variety book, but Dave's coin wasn't one of them. It showed strong re-punching at the "8" and last "9". It also had a large die chip at the end of the right wingtip on the reverse.
Last week I was looking at some Barber Quarters on eBay looking for varieties. It can be rather difficult, because most of the posting photographs are of poor quality- tough to see any detail. When I was looking at the 1899 BQ I noticed a coin with a large die chip on the reverse. It brought back a memory of Dave's coin. I looked back at the photos I took of Dave's coin and sure enough the die chip matched. Looking closely at the OBV listing photos I could see a feint outline of an RPM last 9. I purchased the coin, hoping that it was indeed the variety assumed.
The coin arrived yesterday in the mail- it was indeed a coin matching Dave's variety:
My extreme macro setup is packed in a suitcase (I'm taking it to the FUN show this Thursday- Saturday to shoot any varieties people might have). I'll shoot better photos of the RPM when my setup is back in operation. I think it's a pretty cool variety, and now we have 2 known examples. Anyone else have one?
With Dave's permission, I'll post photos of some of his varieties that I photographed.
FUN show today! my first visit to this show. See you all at the BCCS booth or the BCCS meeting on Friday afternoon. I will have specimens of Barbers available for viewing and discussion.
Jeff and I will have a varieties presentation for everyone.
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Check out this '99 I saw out on Ebay. The seller individual wants double price guide. What interests me is the huge end-of-ribbon blob on the reverse:
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/46429262
Here is my most recent '99:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Am I squinting way too hard and trying to imagine that the following 1893 dime is probably a 3/2 overdate? Would really appreciate your inputs and thanks in advance.
Cheers
https://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/u-s-coins/quarters/PCGS-2020-quarter-quest/album/247091
I'm not seeing anything, but I don't claim to have good eyesight....
@vulcanize I see something but pictures would need to be improved to make any positive attribution.
Contact varieties@barbercoins.org for discussing it.
There needs to be enough visible to determine it looks like this. Notice the horizontal raised area in the lower counter-opening and the line in the upper portion:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
The proof 1907 quarter and half are slightly elusive, and they tend not to come particularly nice....Minting quality was "off" it seems in 07, and 08 timeframe for unknown reasons. This is a PF-65 CAC, and I think it deserves the sticker.
I showed this half dollar at the FUN show and received feedback that is coin should be an UNC and not graded at a level where it is currently placed within an AU58 holder:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Very choice Barber Quarters!
Consider yourself lucky!
@JeffMTampa... So Jeff, are you thinking I should conduct an Everyman-type of analysis for each series using the same approach? My emphasis here was to get a feeling for the rarity of VF and XF in the Barber Quarters. Perhaps I should do an XF to AU analysis of Barber Halves, Barber Quarters and Dimes?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
I really like your previous analysis on the Quarters- it was very insightful. A similar analysis on XF to AU would likely reveal equally interesting information. But I know it’s a lot of effort to produce and time is always an obstacle.
My comment on your 1900 S Half- it has much greater value and interest to collectors in an AU 58 holder than a 62 to 63.
Here is one of my 1894-S Barber Quarters that I like. It is in PCGS XF45 with CAC approval. Centered-S:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Tim- I could see that coin in a 50 holder. Very nice….
HNY fellas! A couple of PCGS dimesin 55 that just got CAC'd. Common dates but I love the look!
Lenny, are you sending these in on the $30+ tier? at CAC? Agreed they are nice looking!
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
My last '94-S BQ shown was center-mintmarked. How about this one right of center?
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.
Tim, I got those in before they stopped the economy tier. I'm just getting around to posting them.
Here's a nice 04-O half in VF-20...
It's winter, and I'm having fun with improving my Dansco set, 33.33% of the fun is sharing with y'all, hope you don't mind:
PCGS decided to call this '96-O quarter an AU55:
A Barber Quartet is made up of Nickels, Dimes, Quarters, and Halves.