<< <i>Didn't see prices falling below the release of $1244.95. Mine is arriving tomorrow, I can buy slabbed 69's for less with the OGP right now.
EDIT: Is there a possibility that a significant amount are returned and the Mint can't unload em, so into the melting pot they go? In a year from now, after all the returns and smelting, final sold are much lower than anticipated and prices have nearly doubled >>
A tell for that might be, once the ANA coins at reasonable prices dry up, then the non show first strike start firming and then rising. That might be an indicator of collector demand out there.
Interesting we're looking for signs of collector demand post-release on this one. Definitely not as hot as the RP Buffs
2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***SIGNATURE LABEL***.............................$1,349 2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***ASK NOT LABEL***.................................$1,349 2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***BLACK CORE - SIGNATURE LABEL***......$1,349 2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP68 Early Releases ***ASK NOT LABEL***....................$169 2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP68 Early Releases ***SIGNATURE LABEL***................$169 2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP67 Early Releases ***ASK NOT LABEL***.....................$39 2014-P Clad Kennedy NGC SP66 Early Releases ***SIGNATURE LABEL***.................$19
<< <i>I'm still sending mine in. Fingers crossed. >>
Same here. Despite all the negativity I still like the coin. If I only bought coins to flip I wouldn't have any... Is this not Collectors Universe? >>
This is well said. Most of the people participating in this thread are "flippers" who may have been burned. I think it's a handsome coin that will be a part of my collection for some time. It will remain it the nice OGP where it will increase in value.
for the coin that sold for 1161.00 it was graded. How much does it cost for the JFK label ER with shipping to and from NGC? Say 100-150? I am not sure BUT after you buy the coin for its gold value at spot and add the grading cost in it comes to SPOT or dam close. So knock the label off and grading fees the coin was paid around spot!
So I walk into shop. Buy kennedy 3/4 gold at what 950ish? Send to grader 150ish? equals 1100ish! SPOT....SPOT....SPOT
No matter how you try to tell yourself that these coins will hold value you are WRONG. Worth nothing more then SPOT...... Keep holding that potato buddy..... you will be burnt
Must feel bad buying a coin for 1240 raw when it could be purchase for 1161.00 graded and 4x ebay bucks today!
<< <i>for the coin that sold for 1161.00 it was graded. How much does it cost for the JFK label ER with shipping to and from NGC? Say 100-150? I am not sure BUT after you buy the coin for its gold value at spot and add the grading cost in it comes to SPOT or dam close. So knock the label off and grading fees the coin was paid around spot!
So I walk into shop. Buy kennedy 3/4 gold at what 950ish? Send to grader 150ish? equals 1100ish! SPOT....SPOT....SPOT
No matter how you try to tell yourself that these coins will hold value you are WRONG. Worth nothing more then SPOT...... Keep holding that potato buddy..... you will be burnt
Must feel bad buying a coin for 1240 raw when it could be purchase for 1161.00 graded and 4x ebay bucks today! >>
What's with SPOT...SPOT....SPOT? Do you mean melt? Spot is a price per ounce. Melt is the value of the metal in an item.
And good luck finding yours at melt. I already sold mine for 10% over issue price with little effort. U.S. proof gold rarely sells for melt.
<< <i>Hang on to them, they will pop in 2163 for the centennial. >>
Oh, come on... JFK's 100th birthday is coming up in 2017. I'm sure there will be opportunities for folks to get their unsold coins reholdered with newer and more special labels
<< <i>Mint sales back to 63,388 (Mints website), due to returns...........OUCH !!!!!!!!!!! >>
Some of the returned coins are probably nice pieces. I imagine that a lot of flippers are bailing out because they don't think they can turn a profit on them. It would be nice if there could be a "flipper list," for those who make a lot of returns, that would be put at the back of the line when order day comes for the next hot issue. That way the legitimate buyers would not have to bother with them and could order the coins.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
I bought a few so I could have a couple and flip one or two, but I sent them back today. I won't complain about the return cost as it is the price of a gamble.
I was going to send in a couple for grading...these looked pretty good, especially considering what I have heard some look like, but, as I thought about it, and with some personal changes, I decided to not keep something of that value, where most of the value is tied up in the "collectability" vs the bullion, at a big increase in price.
What I actually DID like, besides getting ones with nice surfaces and no noticeable issues, was the side.....being that of a 1/2 dollar. Aside from the price, what I DID NOT like was their case and packaging. Don't like the "new car smell" nor do I like the clamshell cases. Not like very many people are going to be putting these on display around their houses/offices at this pricing (though, I have been known to do that with SAEs and their display cases )
So, back they went today (still within my 7 day period).
I purposefully did NOT tell my friends, who don't do coins but have been known to flip hot issues with me, about these, and I am glad now....I had an early feeling which is why I went for less than HH limit and had actually done it with the intent to keep a couple (for myself and my son).
The way the USMint has handled this made my decision for me more than the price drops. It just kept weighing on me the way they did the whole show only thing initially (and outlets), and the dealers doing their things, and the gross flippers on these forums showcasing 20-50 which shows they try to play dealer but aren't really a dealer and end up screwing collectors over, etc.......my conscience just said "return them all", so I did. Thinking about it, all things (those actions and the pricing, etc) and I am 99.99999% behind my decision.
I ordered 5 and sold them to Ian at GC for cost + $125 per coin. Got the big check today. I'm happy as a clam with my $625 profit. Everyone on this board had the same chance and I don't understand why others didn't jump on this opportunity. Thanks Ian!!
<< <i>I ordered 5 and sold them to Ian at GC for cost + $125 per coin. Got the big check today. I'm happy as a clam with my $625 profit. Everyone on this board had the same chance and I don't understand why others didn't jump on this opportunity. Thanks Ian!! >>
I tried 2 times to sell to him all I got was "not buying" I even tried MCM and that went no where. I think Ian got burnt enough and that's why he stopped buying.......
Proof gold will be an issue for the foreseeable future
I push the mint to improve their processes (struck through lint? I've seen that on not only this issue, but first spouse, and even silver proof sets - 3 strike throughs on one coin!).
With high expectations this was a hot issue and everyone fighting for them initially, I think there hasn't really been much attention to capturing a full picture of quality.
<< <i>I ordered 5 and sold them to Ian at GC for cost + $125 per coin. Got the big check today. I'm happy as a clam with my $625 profit. Everyone on this board had the same chance and I don't understand why others didn't jump on this opportunity. Thanks Ian!! >>
I tried 2 times to sell to him all I got was "not buying" I even tried MCM and that went no where. I think Ian got burnt enough and that's why he stopped buying....... >>
Hard to tell
I see 2 buy threads on the BST - $125 and later $60 - maybe he was "full" maybe he was hurt. Who knows.
I ordered two in the first 5 minutes or so of the order window opening - unlucky me, I got right through this time (unlike the HOFs, where it took over 4 hours for me to get my order in). I was on a plane to Africa four hours later and 2 days after was deep in the bush, away from the modern world, so I had no clue what was going on with these, the ANA, etc.. When I returned home last Wednesday, my Kennedys were here, having been delivered 8 days before, the fastest mint delivery I have had in a long time. I didn't discover the apparent hatred and disdain for these for a couple more days. In any case, returning them was not an option. So I've got a pair I'm stuck with, still in their respective FS eligible boxes, and that's how I will probably keep/sell them. I'm in no hurry...
A lot of amateur and professional flippers got in on this and it seemed demand was more than I certainly thought at first. I changed my tune after seeing decent pictures and thinking of the anticipation. It's still a nice looking coin. It may be popular overseas.
If you travel more soon, perhaps you can unload one abroad.
But they aren't hated, except by the burned flippers (check the unsold ones on ebay)
<< <i>Proof gold will be an issue for the foreseeable future
I push the mint to improve their processes (struck through lint? I've seen that on not only this issue, but first spouse, and even silver proof sets - 3 strike throughs on one coin!).
With high expectations this was a hot issue and everyone fighting for them initially, I think there hasn't really been much attention to capturing a full picture of quality. >>
The mint is painting itself into a corner by offeingr customer returns, but don't make the coins to the MS standards that customers have learned to expect for their perception of value.
The coin looks nice in hand and I think it'll be popular for years to come as a one-year sub-type of the Kennedy Half set.
Sales suck this last week or so because of some returns, but also because the price went up by $37.50 per coin recently. Most folks who buy from the Mint regularly know how that pricing works and likely know it'll go back to $1240 soon and may be waiting for that.
Oh, and since it is unopened and FS eligible, try the BST at issue and you pay shipping. You'd pay some amount of shipping to return to the mint. Maybe someone will do you the favor, especially if their ship date is not FS eligible. Although they'd not have a real return like the mint offers.
<< <i>The coin looks nice in hand and I think it'll be popular for years to come as a one-year sub-type of the Kennedy Half set.
Sales suck this last week or so because of some returns, but also because the price went up by $37.50 per coin recently. Most folks who buy from the Mint regularly know how that pricing works and likely know it'll go back to $1240 soon and may be waiting for that. >>
A not hot issue has sales declines (how much were from amateur flippers??)
Keep in mind I haven't checked the average, but if the PM fix comes in over $1300 tomorrow, the current price remains. If it is under $1300, the price will likely return to $1240.
Should $1240 return, that would be another removal of price supports for raw and 69 coins... If they are even getting support.
Orders, but the 69's would be unloved to a point, 70s would be fought and picked over, and the returns would be on ebay and any other site with a return policy.
Prices would rise for all graded coins as those that make them have to eat the costs.
<< <i>forget about the 1st 250 people in line at 8.00 Tuesday being able to purchase the gold Kennedys ....dealers will end with the majority of the coins ANA and the Mint promising a free for all at least on Tuesday, until they learn better for the rest of the week .. I will be there,looking for 20 gold Kennedys by the end of the show.... maybe trade hofs for the kennedys >>
This coin is DOA, and I think the future is not bright for many moderns anymore. Holding these with expectations of the UHR is insanity, I don't think the market will absorb the coins and have extra demand to raise prices.
The mint is set on making special sets every year and diluting us to death. They already did it to the silver eagles, and now they have done it to the Kennedy set. Let's not forget the quarters as well, adding another long series plus 5 ounce silver quarters to boot and even adding S quarters.
The recent almost record low mintages on the gold commemoratives was a warning sign, if sales that low don't reflect higher prices later we have a problem Houston. Too many coins to matter overall are hurting the ones that should matter. That seems to be the issue now.
The coin is hardly dead---it may be gasping for some air due to the novice flippers running at full speed for cover. Kind of reminds of that TV commercial, the amatuer art buyer wins the expensive Art piece at auction and as he is being congratulated, he says "can I sell it now" Everyone wants a quick return, forum members also poo poo some really nice issues with potential--this is one of them This coin is tracking similar to the UHR, very similar to pricing right after release---lots of product around, lower prices at issue or close for raws, PCGS 70 FS wholesaling for 1650 or so
As for the silvers, price point is great, but in this case they will mint them until the dies break I don't think the silvers will be the winners at all There will be way too much product around
Comments
<< <i>Paradise Mint has now under cut MCM by $ 50 on NGC PF70 Early Releases Gold Kennedy's.
Let the price wars start. Push em back, shove em back, way back. >>
Both good dealers; yet, if I was less of a gambling man I would lean towards MCM.
They will typically help a forum member out (as they have MANY times in the past)
<< <i>Didn't see prices falling below the release of $1244.95. Mine is arriving tomorrow, I can buy slabbed 69's for less with the OGP right now.
EDIT: Is there a possibility that a significant amount are returned and the Mint can't unload em, so into the melting pot they go? In a year from now, after all the returns and smelting, final sold are much lower than anticipated and prices have nearly doubled
A tell for that might be, once the ANA coins at reasonable prices dry up, then the non show first strike start firming and then rising. That might be an indicator of collector demand out there.
Interesting we're looking for signs of collector demand post-release on this one. Definitely not as hot as the RP Buffs
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>1275 raw
pcgs69 FS $1226 >>
That's disheartening. >>
$1161 and free shipping >>
WHO SAID YOU WOULD NEVER GET THESE AT SPOT? darn close... now wipe your face you got something on it!! j/k all in fun >>
1161 > 956
Still 200 over spot
That seller might be left with spot money.
<< <i>Walmart may start stocking them. >>
In the clearance aisles! Wow.
<< <i>
<< <i>Paradise Mint has now under cut MCM by $ 50 on NGC PF70 Early Releases Gold Kennedy's.
Let the price wars start. Push em back, shove em back, way back. >>
Both good dealers; yet, if I was less of a gambling man I would lean towards MCM.
They will typically help a forum member out (as they have MANY times in the past) >>
MCM by far has the best customer service and will compete with any prices, however the point I am trying to make here
is the continued falling of prices in general.
MCM fires back with a $ 150 price cut on 69's
Lowered from 1375 last night
2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***SIGNATURE LABEL***.............................$1,349
2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***ASK NOT LABEL***.................................$1,349
2014-W Gold Kennedy NGC PF69 UC ***BLACK CORE - SIGNATURE LABEL***......$1,349
2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP68 Early Releases ***ASK NOT LABEL***....................$169
2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP68 Early Releases ***SIGNATURE LABEL***................$169
2014-D Clad Kennedy NGC SP67 Early Releases ***ASK NOT LABEL***.....................$39
2014-P Clad Kennedy NGC SP66 Early Releases ***SIGNATURE LABEL***.................$19
<< <i>TextWHO SAID YOU WOULD NEVER GET THESE AT SPOT? darn close... now wipe your face you got something on it!! j/k all in fun >>
Three quarters of an ounce of gold goes for a lot less than 1161......
and i'll say it again......not at spot.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm still sending mine in. Fingers crossed. >>
Same here. Despite all the negativity I still like the coin. If I only bought coins to flip I wouldn't have any... Is this not Collectors Universe? >>
This is well said. Most of the people participating in this thread are "flippers" who may have been burned. I think it's a handsome coin that will be a part of my collection for some time. It will remain it the nice OGP where it will increase in value.
<< <i>Walmart may start stocking them. >>
Why not? Sears sells the HOF gold coins, some authorized by Babe Ruth.
Description Item # SPM11376904119 Model # MC-G5-14-W-BHOF-N-PF70-BR
2014-W US Gold $5 National Baseball Hall of Fame Commemorative Proof
Certified NGC PF70 Ultra Cameo - Baseball Hall of Fame Label - Authorized signature facsimile of Babe Ruth
So I walk into shop. Buy kennedy 3/4 gold at what 950ish? Send to grader 150ish? equals 1100ish! SPOT....SPOT....SPOT
No matter how you try to tell yourself that these coins will hold value you are WRONG. Worth nothing more then SPOT...... Keep holding that potato buddy..... you will be burnt
Must feel bad buying a coin for 1240 raw when it could be purchase for 1161.00 graded and 4x ebay bucks today!
I agree that the seller probably received less than spot after all costs.
When one is found in a Salvation Army kettle around Christmas will it prop up the sagging market for these?
<< <i>
<< <i>Walmart may start stocking them. >>
Why not? Sears sells the HOF gold coins, some authorized by Babe Ruth.
Description Item # SPM11376904119 Model # MC-G5-14-W-BHOF-N-PF70-BR
2014-W US Gold $5 National Baseball Hall of Fame Commemorative Proof
Certified NGC PF70 Ultra Cameo - Baseball Hall of Fame Label - Authorized signature facsimile of Babe Ruth >>
$1075 at Sears
<< <i>for the coin that sold for 1161.00 it was graded. How much does it cost for the JFK label ER with shipping to and from NGC? Say 100-150? I am not sure BUT after you buy the coin for its gold value at spot and add the grading cost in it comes to SPOT or dam close. So knock the label off and grading fees the coin was paid around spot!
So I walk into shop. Buy kennedy 3/4 gold at what 950ish? Send to grader 150ish? equals 1100ish! SPOT....SPOT....SPOT
No matter how you try to tell yourself that these coins will hold value you are WRONG. Worth nothing more then SPOT...... Keep holding that potato buddy..... you will be burnt
Must feel bad buying a coin for 1240 raw when it could be purchase for 1161.00 graded and 4x ebay bucks today! >>
What's with SPOT...SPOT....SPOT? Do you mean melt? Spot is a price per ounce. Melt is the value of the metal in an item.
And good luck finding yours at melt. I already sold mine for 10% over issue price with little effort. U.S. proof gold rarely sells for melt.
<< <i>Hang on to them, they will pop in 2163 for the centennial.
Oh, come on... JFK's 100th birthday is coming up in 2017. I'm sure there will be opportunities for folks to get their unsold coins reholdered with newer and more special labels
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
The Walmart of U.S. Coins
no spam intended
<< <i>Mint sales back to 63,388 (Mints website), due to returns...........OUCH !!!!!!!!!!! >>
Some of the returned coins are probably nice pieces. I imagine that a lot of flippers are bailing out because they don't think they can turn a profit on them. It would be nice if there could be a "flipper list," for those who make a lot of returns, that would be put at the back of the line when order day comes for the next hot issue. That way the legitimate buyers would not have to bother with them and could order the coins.
I won't complain about the return cost as it is the price of a gamble.
I was going to send in a couple for grading...these looked pretty good, especially considering what I have heard some look like, but, as I thought about it, and with some personal changes, I decided to not keep something of that value, where most of the value is tied up in the "collectability" vs the bullion, at a big increase in price.
What I actually DID like, besides getting ones with nice surfaces and no noticeable issues, was the side.....being that of a 1/2 dollar.
Aside from the price, what I DID NOT like was their case and packaging. Don't like the "new car smell" nor do I like the clamshell cases. Not like very many people are going to be putting these on display around their houses/offices at this pricing (though, I have been known to do that with SAEs and their display cases
So, back they went today (still within my 7 day period).
I purposefully did NOT tell my friends, who don't do coins but have been known to flip hot issues with me, about these, and I am glad now....I had an early feeling which is why I went for less than HH limit and had actually done it with the intent to keep a couple (for myself and my son).
The way the USMint has handled this made my decision for me more than the price drops. It just kept weighing on me the way they did the whole show only thing initially (and outlets), and the dealers doing their things, and the gross flippers on these forums showcasing 20-50 which shows they try to play dealer but aren't really a dealer and end up screwing collectors over, etc.......my conscience just said "return them all", so I did. Thinking about it, all things (those actions and the pricing, etc) and I am 99.99999% behind my decision.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>I ordered 5 and sold them to Ian at GC for cost + $125 per coin. Got the big check today. I'm happy as a clam with my $625 profit. Everyone on this board had the same chance and I don't understand why others didn't jump on this opportunity. Thanks Ian!! >>
I tried 2 times to sell to him all I got was "not buying" I even tried MCM and that went no where. I think Ian got burnt enough and that's why he stopped buying.......
I push the mint to improve their processes (struck through lint? I've seen that on not only this issue, but first spouse, and even silver proof sets - 3 strike throughs on one coin!).
With high expectations this was a hot issue and everyone fighting for them initially, I think there hasn't really been much attention to capturing a full picture of quality.
<< <i>
<< <i>I ordered 5 and sold them to Ian at GC for cost + $125 per coin. Got the big check today. I'm happy as a clam with my $625 profit. Everyone on this board had the same chance and I don't understand why others didn't jump on this opportunity. Thanks Ian!! >>
I tried 2 times to sell to him all I got was "not buying" I even tried MCM and that went no where. I think Ian got burnt enough and that's why he stopped buying....... >>
Hard to tell
I see 2 buy threads on the BST - $125 and later $60 - maybe he was "full" maybe he was hurt. Who knows.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
A lot of amateur and professional flippers got in on this and it seemed demand was more than I certainly thought at first. I changed my tune after seeing decent pictures and thinking of the anticipation. It's still a nice looking coin. It may be popular overseas.
If you travel more soon, perhaps you can unload one abroad.
But they aren't hated, except by the burned flippers (check the unsold ones on ebay)
<< <i>Proof gold will be an issue for the foreseeable future
I push the mint to improve their processes (struck through lint? I've seen that on not only this issue, but first spouse, and even silver proof sets - 3 strike throughs on one coin!).
With high expectations this was a hot issue and everyone fighting for them initially, I think there hasn't really been much attention to capturing a full picture of quality. >>
The mint is painting itself into a corner by offeingr customer returns, but don't make the coins to the MS standards that customers have learned to expect for their perception of value.
Solution: NO RETURNS.
Man, that would put a new wrinkle in this game.
US Mint - sick in bed
I can't win I can't win........
Sales suck this last week or so because of some returns, but also because the price went up by $37.50 per coin recently. Most folks who buy from the Mint regularly know how that pricing works and likely know it'll go back to $1240 soon and may be waiting for that.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>The coin looks nice in hand and I think it'll be popular for years to come as a one-year sub-type of the Kennedy Half set.
Sales suck this last week or so because of some returns, but also because the price went up by $37.50 per coin recently. Most folks who buy from the Mint regularly know how that pricing works and likely know it'll go back to $1240 soon and may be waiting for that. >>
A not hot issue has sales declines (how much were from amateur flippers??)
Keep in mind I haven't checked the average, but if the PM fix comes in over $1300 tomorrow, the current price remains. If it is under $1300, the price will likely return to $1240.
Should $1240 return, that would be another removal of price supports for raw and 69 coins... If they are even getting support.
<< <i>No returns = no orders
US Mint - sick in bed
I can't win I can't win........ >>
Orders, but the 69's would be unloved to a point, 70s would be fought and picked over, and the returns would be on ebay and any other site with a return policy.
Prices would rise for all graded coins as those that make them have to eat the costs.
I am surprised by the typically bullet-proof dealers on the BST that are doing all they can to rid themselves of this issue.
The bottom is only being defined by the amount of tolerance one has for holding a steeeeply-drooping commodity.
of this Half Dollar.
The Mint was very smart in their release of the Clad, Gold and then Silver. They're not total dummies in DC.
<< <i>well the sky has fallen on the gold kennedys.. soon my coin club will buy..
Go to page 18 and read your comments......
<< <i>
<< <i>Interesting article about possible demand from Louis at Coin Week
Louis' article
Aug. 5 should be a fun day.
on the money article .....the kennedy gold will be a winner
The luck was not good
<< <i>forget about the 1st 250 people in line at 8.00 Tuesday being able to purchase the gold Kennedys ....dealers will end with the majority of the coins
ANA and the Mint promising a free for all at least on Tuesday, until they learn better for the rest of the week ..
I will be there,looking for 20 gold Kennedys by the end of the show.... maybe trade hofs for the kennedys
Did you make it to the show?
The mint is set on making special sets every year and diluting us to death. They already did it to the silver eagles, and now they have done it to the Kennedy set. Let's not forget the quarters as well, adding another long series plus 5 ounce silver quarters to boot and even adding S quarters.
The recent almost record low mintages on the gold commemoratives was a warning sign, if sales that low don't reflect higher prices later we have a problem Houston. Too many coins to matter overall are hurting the ones that should matter. That seems to be the issue now.
Moderns, particularly unique issues will continue to have their following.
<< <i>
<< <i>well the sky has fallen on the gold kennedys.. soon my coin club will buy..
Go to page 18 and read your comments......
I am still waiting on this:
<< <i> and gold will rise sharply into late August .. >>
I guess there are still a few days left.....
flippers running at full speed for cover.
Kind of reminds of that TV commercial, the amatuer art buyer wins the expensive
Art piece at auction and as he is being congratulated, he says "can I sell it now"
Everyone wants a quick return, forum members also poo poo some really nice
issues with potential--this is one of them
This coin is tracking similar to the UHR, very similar to pricing right after release---lots
of product around, lower prices at issue or close for raws, PCGS 70 FS wholesaling
for 1650 or so
until the dies break
I don't think the silvers will be the winners at all
There will be way too much product around