<< <i>I still wouldn't get into Bitcoins, for the reasons I stated earlier- fundamentally, I think it's a flawed system. And though I wouldn't be surprised if Bitcoin did fail tremendously, I have to admit...
...it has yet to fall like silver fell over the last couple years. >>
What part of the "system" are you referring to please?
The Idea, Protocol, Encryption, Network, Users/Consumers, or just the name... BitCoin and all of it's prior and up to date affiliations? >>
Probably the encryption, which, I guess, is the meat of idea. Cracking into a server isn't exactly a tough thing to do unless the person who runs the server takes painstaking efforts to fend off brute-force hackers. Without proper funding and security, it makes sense that Mt Gox would get hacked into.
Only I'm willing to wager that Mt Gox got hacked a while back (maybe a couple years ago?)... and have continued a "ponzi-scheme" in taking peoples' money, before a massive sell-off of BTC forced Mt Gox into admission. So I guess you could throw certain users into the "system" I spoke about as well.
As for silver-- it got as high as $45 before taking a trip down to $17-18, no?
Mount Gox didn't get hacked into... they were beat by someone manipulating the response messages for a withdrawal.
It looked like this: I have an account with 1000 bitcoins... I send 500 to a friend but intercept the response message going back to Mt. Gox and manipulate it so that the transaction looks like it failed... ( a technical thing but not hard)
Now, my friend really has the 500btc, but Mt. Gox gets back the failed message and doesn't decrement my account right because they think it's failed... Now I take out the 500 in Mt. Gox and I am up, Mt. Gox is beat and they eventually lose 450 million.
Many exchanges had this problem fixed and it was a known problem... Mt. Gox didn't. Ruthlessly Darwinian.
<< <i>I fully understand 'why' Bitcoin works... but also why it must fail as a currency.
Stability is the most desirable aspect of a currency.
Bitcoin is only popular due to it's volatility and people's hopes they can speculatively exploit that volatility for profit.
How will they still have their cake after eating it? >>
We see this all the time with whatever is the hot stock or commodity. Remember silver in 2010-2011, tech stocks in the late '90's, or social media stocks now. As soon as the volatility goes away and short term profits are not there to be made, the hype dies down and so does the trading volume along with the price. I'm not saying bitcoin has no future but it has a long way to go before it gains any credibility or mainstream acceptance. If ever.
new entry into the digicurrency realm: MazaCoin by a council of American Indian tribes. Could be interesting considering the soverignty of tribal land.
My research shows that these thefts are occurring to those who store their "wallets" on-line. To prevent theft it is suggest the wallet be stored on a thumb drive.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>To prevent theft it is suggest the wallet be stored on a thumb drive.
That's a good rule of thumb >>
"everybody funny, now you funny too"
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Yes, you can print your bitcoins out and they are impervious... unless you lose your printout. But anyone who doesn't keep their hash's backed up several different ways is foolish.
By the way... New legislation regard Bitcoins and Dollars...
Today, U.S. Congressman Jared Polis (D-CO) sent a letter to federal regulators seeking a ban on United States dollar bills, a currency that is unregulated and unstable, and has been used in illicit activity, including drug trafficking and money laundering. The letter was sent in response to a letter from Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) calling for the banning of BitCoins. Congressman Polis expressed similar concerns about the negative effect dollars have on America’s economy. The letter was sent to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen, Comptroller of Currency Thomas Curry, Acting CFTC Chairman Mark Wetjen, FDIC Chairman Martin Gruenberg, and SEC Chairwoman Mary Jo White. The full text of Congressman Polis' letter is below:
Here is what little I have learned so far, feel free to correct me if wrong: Digital currencies such as bitcoin are initially obtained one of two ways: 1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium 2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Sound correct to those in the know?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium
You are not really buying from an exchange generally but rather some other unknown counterparty which might be the exchange. Same as a share of stock. On the other end is a person who wants to sell... could be a private citizen or could be the exchange makiing a market if that is their business model.
2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
Yeah, mining is essentially running programs to determine the next hash in the blockchain... think of it as breaking a code... each time a code is broken the hash that broke it becomes a bitcoin and the guy whos computer created the succesful hash is credited. From that new bitcoin another code is waiting to be broken. it doesn't really matter what that means but suffice to say that it limits the creation of bitcoins... there will only ever be 21 million (iirc) of them and they will spool out over time. The computing power it takes to create a successful hash is immense. It is estimated that all bitcoins will be mined by 2030... at that point the supply is fixed. If the system sticks there will be a decimalization... even now people are talking in millibitcoins. mBTC
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Yep... there is no central currency site... it's just various web sites who set themselves up as exchanges... With various levels of success and competence as we have seen.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
<< <i>Here is what little I have learned so far, feel free to correct me if wrong: Digital currencies such as bitcoin are initially obtained one of two ways: 1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium 2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Sound correct to those in the know? >>
More like securing the network, after all you are contributing your computational speed to advance the chain of events. If there was no reward system, miners would come and go leaving the network vulnerable. After the last Bitcoin is Mined the network will run on a transaction fee model.
folks who buy bitcoins are smart. folks who let others store them are idiots.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Key word "allegedly," by the media- which translates to a garbage story (no offense to you or anything). The Feds/SEC/FTC would have gotten to him much sooner (with the help of the NSA) if they believed him to be the founder. Would the founders of BTC hang their identity out to dry in this situation? It goes against that entire culture's principles
So a person that bought something that has outperformed gold, silver, and countless other investments is an idiot. Interesting.
The Canadian winter must be getting to you. You may want to consider selling some of your gold and taking a trip to a warmer climate, it might change your perspective. >>
In these crazy times, I'm into 'preserving' my wealth, not necessarily playing what's 'hot' in the marketplace.
Perhaps that's not the smartest strategy to take.
Maybe I should have rephrased my first statement.
I did mean the idiot remark about investing in Bitcoins was for the longterm.
"Gold is money, and nothing else" (JP Morgan, 1912)
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
Key word "allegedly," by the media- which translates to a garbage story (no offense to you or anything). The Feds/SEC/FTC would have gotten to him much sooner (with the help of the NSA) if they believed him to be the founder. Would the founders of BTC hang their identity out to dry in this situation? It goes against that entire culture's principles >>
I understand that this is the fourth person to be "identified" by the media as the founder of Bitcoin. The first three weren't. Haven't seen any proof that the fourth one is, either.
Saw a representative of Newsweek, which broke the story, on the CBS Morning News. She seemed totally clueless.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
founders/code writers aren't wanted for any criminal activity. Media acts like they are on the most wanted list.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Why should bit coin "miners" be exempt from the commodity and currency slides of the past 3-4 years? If you're not the USDollar, it's been a chore for other currency choices. Though the Yen has showed some strength against the dollar the past 6 weeks. While I understand the "concept" of electronic mining for bit coins.....I could never get a handle on how you regulate the amount of "mining" as technology improves exponentially.
<< <i>Why should bit coin "miners" be exempt from the commodity and currency slides of the past 3-4 years?
Because it is neither a commodity or currency.
Are we going to blame falling commodity prices on a rising dollar now? If so, then why was this never factored in the supposed "fundamentals"? >>
I'd certainly call bit coins an alternative currency. It's EXACTLY what it has been doing the past couple of years...acting and performing as a currency. What currency function was a bit coin not performing for the past 2 years? It would seem to have met all the ones I'm aware of.... no different than digi-dollars or digi-pounds in your checking or savings account.
Falling commodity prices due the dollar? Not exactly. But, I have consistently related the falling commodity prices to the JPY/USD, AUD/USD, CAD/USD trades. They are certainly related to these currency crosses having fallen apart since 2011. The USD/JPY has been the biggest driver....possibly related to the Yen-USD carry trades. The rising USD/JPY has been essentially a fundamental driver for gold since 2001 (up and then down). If it wasn't recognized (by me) as a primary driver in 2001-2011 it certainly was by late 2011/early 2012. The dollar has had too many extended periods of tracking with gold to blame it for anything. And since the dollar is 6-7 currencies rolled into one, it's even harder to blame it for anything. It's probably more important as to what gold is doing against all the world currencies than what is doing vs the dollar. The vast majority of world demand (and supply) is from outside the US.
It's probably more important as to what gold is doing against all the world currencies than what is doing vs the dollar
Agreed 100%. We should have been bashing those other currencies instead of the dollar all these years.
Stupid rock based currencies.
This "investing" game really isnt difficult when we try to keep it simple. The creation of bitcoins is the antithesis of simple, hence its eventual failure.
Found this tonight while looking into some CFTC information:
Another CFTC function: Regulating digital currencies
In March 2014 the CFTC acknowledged it was considering the regulation of Bitcoin.[29] The CFTC could treat Bitcoin transactions as swaps, futures, or spot transactions, otherwise Bitcoin would likely be a COMMODITY under the CEA.[30] In October, CFTC’s Global Markets Advisory Committee discussed virtual currencies. Mark Wetjen wrote in an OpEd by the WSJ afterwards that ["bitcoin] could play a fascinating role in the derivatives markets as well as financial services." [31] and that a swap contract on Bitcoin that had been listed for trading by one registered trading platform was recently presented to CFTC.
NYSE just started Bitcoin Index, right now $237.03.
couple thoughts occur to me, first, I might have been wrong earlier in the thread... bitcoin may end up being "a thing"
second, I wonder if any percentage of folks who have never thought about real coins, keep hearing "bit coin bit coin" and go shopping for some Real Coins?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@ricko
In all honesty I did not read the entire article but I read enough.
Never understood this exchange and really do not understand why some companies like JMB accept this form of payment
April 29, 2017.....Price of one Bitcoin =$1,367
April 29, 2017 Price of one ounce of gold = $1,267
Be interesting to see where each of these are in 6 months, 1 year, 2 years and 5 years.
As much as I love gold, digital currency is the future and the youngsters love them some cryptocurrencies,
My money is on Bitcoin and Ethereum to outperform gold and silver in the future.
Nothing wrong with owning both gold and bitcoins.
The past issue is whether they would continue to grow or fade. I admit I have waited on the sidelines thinking that cryptocurrencies were only temporary. I think at this point we have to realize that it they are part of the future.
Now that being said, just like real currency, one type can go belly-up and it would be near impossible to recover. There is nothing physical and everything is out of the control of the holder. But as an investment opportunity, well it's becoming increasingly obvious that I have been missing out.
-Stevo
Beware of the flying monkeys! Aerospace Structures Engineer
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@1630Boston said: @ricko
Never understood this exchange and really do not understand why some companies like JMB accept this form of payment
Like any medium of exchange there has to be confidence that the recipient of the currency will be able to pass it on to the next guy. A break down in confidence is what eventually destroys any form of currency. As long as JMB can buy with bitcoin they will accept it as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
@ricko said:
I may be missing something... would not be the first time... however, all the bit coins are still valued in dollars, right?? Cheers, RickO
You are right to be cautious. While I still believe it is here to stay, I will not be getting in until I feel more comfortable. As collectors, we are very familiar with the inns and outs of precious metals. It would be hard to compete at the same level as the techies that use bitcoins. It would take a big investment in time to learn but may be worthwhile.
As for value, they do have an equivalent USD value, but these types of currencies are currently sky high and are pretty volatile. I can wait for a drop.
Beware of the flying monkeys! Aerospace Structures Engineer
My philosophy is, if I might not make money on it, i need to enjoy owning it.
A historic, pretty, and/or chunky piece of metal, a nice property, shares in an exciting business that advances the human condition, these investments I can believe in even if they go to zero, or if I die with them and the heirs inherit.
I personally can't enjoy a bitcoin, and will never buy them. If in the future I receive any for payment, I'll respend them on tangible assets.
A guy came in the shop a few days ago. Sold a few hundred dollars worth of slabbed coins. I asked why he was getting out of coins. He said he was going to buy BITCOIN.
I told him it was about $600 last time I looked. He said it's about $1400 now. I would hate my money stuck in a computer.
A few years ago a guy came into the shop asking if I bought Krugerrands. I said "yes, of course." He said he had one little problem. I asked what that was. He said he had a fire in the home and the 2 gold coins were on the television and melted into the TV. I Told him I don't buy used televisions.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>I still wouldn't get into Bitcoins, for the reasons I stated earlier- fundamentally, I think it's a flawed system.
And though I wouldn't be surprised if Bitcoin did fail tremendously, I have to admit...
...it has yet to fall like silver fell over the last couple years. >>
What part of the "system" are you referring to please?
The Idea, Protocol, Encryption, Network, Users/Consumers, or just the name... BitCoin and all of it's prior and up to date affiliations? >>
Probably the encryption, which, I guess, is the meat of idea. Cracking into a server isn't exactly a tough thing to do unless the person who runs the server takes painstaking efforts to fend off brute-force hackers. Without proper funding and security, it makes sense that Mt Gox would get hacked into.
Only I'm willing to wager that Mt Gox got hacked a while back (maybe a couple years ago?)... and have continued a "ponzi-scheme" in taking peoples' money, before a massive sell-off of BTC forced Mt Gox into admission. So I guess you could throw certain users into the "system" I spoke about as well.
As for silver-- it got as high as $45 before taking a trip down to $17-18, no?
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
It looked like this: I have an account with 1000 bitcoins... I send 500 to a friend but intercept the response message going back to Mt. Gox and manipulate it so that the transaction looks like it failed... ( a technical thing but not hard)
Now, my friend really has the 500btc, but Mt. Gox gets back the failed message and doesn't decrement my account right because they think it's failed... Now I take out the 500 in Mt. Gox and I am up, Mt. Gox is beat and they eventually lose 450 million.
Many exchanges had this problem fixed and it was a known problem... Mt. Gox didn't. Ruthlessly Darwinian.
<< <i>I fully understand 'why' Bitcoin works... but also why it must fail as a currency.
Stability is the most desirable aspect of a currency.
Bitcoin is only popular due to it's volatility and people's hopes they can speculatively exploit that volatility for profit.
How will they still have their cake after eating it? >>
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
<< <i>And now a bitcoin exchange CEO has been suicided or has commited suicide. You pick.
My research shows that these thefts are occurring to those who store their "wallets" on-line. To prevent theft it is suggest the wallet be stored on a thumb drive.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
That's a good rule of thumb
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>To prevent theft it is suggest the wallet be stored on a thumb drive.
That's a good rule of thumb >>
"everybody funny, now you funny too"
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
By the way... New legislation regard Bitcoins and Dollars...
www.Polis.House.Gov
Today, U.S. Congressman Jared Polis (D-CO) sent a letter to federal regulators seeking a ban on United States dollar bills, a currency that is unregulated and unstable, and has been used in illicit activity, including drug trafficking and money laundering. The letter was sent in response to a letter from Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV) calling for the banning of BitCoins. Congressman Polis expressed similar concerns about the negative effect dollars have on America’s economy. The letter was sent to Treasury Secretary Jack Lew, Federal Reserve Chairwoman Janet Yellen, Comptroller of Currency Thomas Curry, Acting CFTC Chairman Mark Wetjen, FDIC Chairman Martin Gruenberg, and SEC Chairwoman Mary Jo White. The full text of Congressman Polis' letter is below:
<< <i>The guy who invented bitcoin has been found...allegedly. >>
And the CEO of bitcoin exchange
link
Digital currencies such as bitcoin are initially obtained one of two ways:
1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium
2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Sound correct to those in the know?
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium
You are not really buying from an exchange generally but rather some other unknown counterparty which might be the exchange. Same as a share of stock. On the other end is a person who wants to sell... could be a private citizen or could be the exchange makiing a market if that is their business model.
2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
Yeah, mining is essentially running programs to determine the next hash in the blockchain... think of it as breaking a code... each time a code is broken the hash that broke it becomes a bitcoin and the guy whos computer created the succesful hash is credited. From that new bitcoin another code is waiting to be broken. it doesn't really matter what that means but suffice to say that it limits the creation of bitcoins... there will only ever be 21 million (iirc) of them and they will spool out over time. The computing power it takes to create a successful hash is immense. It is estimated that all bitcoins will be mined by 2030... at that point the supply is fixed. If the system sticks there will be a decimalization... even now people are talking in millibitcoins. mBTC
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Yep... there is no central currency site... it's just various web sites who set themselves up as exchanges... With various levels of success and competence as we have seen.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
Folks who buy Bitcoins are idiots.
Thank you for your wise and positive contribution. You must be a hit at parties...
sausage link
<< <i>Here is what little I have learned so far, feel free to correct me if wrong:
Digital currencies such as bitcoin are initially obtained one of two ways:
1. buying directly from a number of exchanges that sell them for a small premium
2. Use a powerful computer to "mine" them. It appears that a number of them are initally awarded to miners who, using various logarithims can "find" them in internetland. Purpose of encouraging the mining is to somehow build up a resistance to hacking the source of them. don't fully understand this, maybe someone can explain.
They are stored in digital wallets, best if stored by wallet owner on his own thumb drive. Sites that have been hacked or shut down are not THE actual digital currency site, they are "exchanges" (middlemen) who profit by trading the bitcoin.
Sound correct to those in the know? >>
More like securing the network, after all you are contributing your computational speed to advance the chain of events. If there was no reward system, miners would come and go leaving the network vulnerable. After the last Bitcoin is Mined the network will run on a transaction fee model.
It's all about what the people want...
<< <i>Folks who buy Bitcoins are idiots. >>
It all sounds like a crazy video game. Gold should feel no threat from digital currency.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>The guy who invented bitcoin has been found...allegedly. >>
Key word "allegedly," by the media- which translates to a garbage story (no offense to you or anything).
The Feds/SEC/FTC would have gotten to him much sooner (with the help of the NSA) if they believed him to be the founder.
Would the founders of BTC hang their identity out to dry in this situation? It goes against that entire culture's principles
Interests:
Pre-Jump Grade Project
Toned Commemoratives
<< <i>
<< <i>Folks who buy Bitcoins are idiots. >>
So a person that bought something that has outperformed gold, silver, and countless other investments is an idiot. Interesting.
The Canadian winter must be getting to you. You may want to consider selling some of your gold and taking a trip to a warmer climate, it might change your perspective.
In these crazy times, I'm into 'preserving' my wealth, not necessarily playing what's 'hot' in the marketplace.
Perhaps that's not the smartest strategy to take.
Maybe I should have rephrased my first statement.
I did mean the idiot remark about investing in Bitcoins was for the longterm.
"“Those who sacrifice liberty for security/safety deserve neither.“(Benjamin Franklin)
"I only golf on days that end in 'Y'" (DE59)
<< <i>
<< <i>The guy who invented bitcoin has been found...allegedly. >>
Key word "allegedly," by the media- which translates to a garbage story (no offense to you or anything).
The Feds/SEC/FTC would have gotten to him much sooner (with the help of the NSA) if they believed him to be the founder.
Would the founders of BTC hang their identity out to dry in this situation? It goes against that entire culture's principles >>
I understand that this is the fourth person to be "identified" by the media as the founder of Bitcoin. The first three weren't. Haven't seen any proof that the fourth one is, either.
Saw a representative of Newsweek, which broke the story, on the CBS Morning News. She seemed totally clueless.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Gold and the US dollar or even the Russian Ruble should feel no threat from bitcoins.
http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-drop-2015-1
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>I guess those bitcoin buyers arent so smart. LMAO.
Gold and the US dollar or even the Russian Ruble should feel no threat from bitcoins.
http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-drop-2015-1 >>
Interesting that a proponent of this crap came back to the forum 6 months later and deleted some posts.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Because it is neither a commodity or currency.
Are we going to blame falling commodity prices on a rising dollar now? If so, then why was this never factored in the supposed "fundamentals"?
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Why should bit coin "miners" be exempt from the commodity and currency slides of the past 3-4 years?
Because it is neither a commodity or currency.
Are we going to blame falling commodity prices on a rising dollar now? If so, then why was this never factored in the supposed "fundamentals"? >>
I'd certainly call bit coins an alternative currency. It's EXACTLY what it has been doing the past couple of years...acting and performing as a currency. What currency function was a bit coin not performing for the past 2 years? It would seem to have met all the ones I'm aware of.... no different than digi-dollars or digi-pounds in your checking or savings account.
Falling commodity prices due the dollar? Not exactly. But, I have consistently related the falling commodity prices to the JPY/USD, AUD/USD, CAD/USD trades. They are certainly related to these currency crosses having fallen apart since 2011. The USD/JPY has been the biggest driver....possibly related to the Yen-USD carry trades. The rising USD/JPY has been essentially a fundamental driver for gold since 2001 (up and then down). If it wasn't recognized (by me) as a primary driver in 2001-2011 it certainly was by late 2011/early 2012. The dollar has had too many extended periods of tracking with gold to blame it for anything. And since the dollar is 6-7 currencies rolled into one, it's even harder to blame it for anything. It's probably more important as to what gold is doing against all the world currencies than what is doing vs the dollar. The vast majority of world demand (and supply) is from outside the US.
Agreed 100%. We should have been bashing those other currencies instead of the dollar all these years.
Stupid rock based currencies.
This "investing" game really isnt difficult when we try to keep it simple. The creation of bitcoins is the antithesis of simple, hence its eventual failure.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Another CFTC function: Regulating digital currencies
In March 2014 the CFTC acknowledged it was considering the regulation of Bitcoin.[29] The CFTC could treat Bitcoin transactions as swaps, futures, or spot transactions, otherwise Bitcoin would likely be a COMMODITY under the CEA.[30] In October, CFTC’s Global Markets Advisory Committee discussed virtual currencies. Mark Wetjen wrote in an OpEd by the WSJ afterwards that ["bitcoin] could play a fascinating role in the derivatives markets as well as financial services." [31] and that a swap contract on Bitcoin that had been listed for trading by one registered trading platform was recently presented to CFTC.
I should have done the same for 2015.
When Bitcoin had that incredible move to $1100 I couldn't decide whether it was
a Ponzi or more similar to Tulipmania. Still not sure.
couple thoughts occur to me, first, I might have been wrong earlier in the thread... bitcoin may end up being "a thing"
second, I wonder if any percentage of folks who have never thought about real coins, keep hearing "bit coin bit coin" and go shopping for some Real Coins?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Bittulips reach new high.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Ive seen a few people actually trade gold and silver for bitcoins right now............I don't understand that.
Many members on this forum that now it cannot fit in my signature. Please ask for entire list.
@ricko
In all honesty I did not read the entire article but I read enough.
Never understood this exchange and really do not understand why some companies like JMB accept this form of payment
Successful transactions with : MICHAELDIXON, Manorcourtman, Bochiman, bolivarshagnasty, AUandAG, onlyroosies, chumley, Weiss, jdimmick, BAJJERFAN, gene1978, TJM965, Smittys, GRANDAM, JTHawaii, mainejoe, softparade, derryb
Bad transactions with : nobody to date
April 29, 2017.....Price of one Bitcoin =$1,367
April 29, 2017 Price of one ounce of gold = $1,267
Be interesting to see where each of these are in 6 months, 1 year, 2 years and 5 years.
As much as I love gold, digital currency is the future and the youngsters love them some cryptocurrencies,
My money is on Bitcoin and Ethereum to outperform gold and silver in the future.
Nothing wrong with owning both gold and bitcoins.
One EMP strike and 'poof'....all the bitcoins are memories.....Cheers, RickO
The past issue is whether they would continue to grow or fade. I admit I have waited on the sidelines thinking that cryptocurrencies were only temporary. I think at this point we have to realize that it they are part of the future.
Now that being said, just like real currency, one type can go belly-up and it would be near impossible to recover. There is nothing physical and everything is out of the control of the holder. But as an investment opportunity, well it's becoming increasingly obvious that I have been missing out.
-Stevo
Aerospace Structures Engineer
I missed out on the tulips.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
Like any medium of exchange there has to be confidence that the recipient of the currency will be able to pass it on to the next guy. A break down in confidence is what eventually destroys any form of currency. As long as JMB can buy with bitcoin they will accept it as payment.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I may be missing something... would not be the first time... however, all the bit coins are still valued in dollars, right?? Cheers, RickO
Fog wallets are being emptied even when block chain says they're there and some people are getting negative account balances lately. Opsec, guys.
Seems to me World governments would consider bitcoins a viable threat to "their" economies.
Draw your own conclusions.
100% Positive BST transactions
You are right to be cautious. While I still believe it is here to stay, I will not be getting in until I feel more comfortable. As collectors, we are very familiar with the inns and outs of precious metals. It would be hard to compete at the same level as the techies that use bitcoins. It would take a big investment in time to learn but may be worthwhile.
As for value, they do have an equivalent USD value, but these types of currencies are currently sky high and are pretty volatile. I can wait for a drop.
Aerospace Structures Engineer
My philosophy is, if I might not make money on it, i need to enjoy owning it.
A historic, pretty, and/or chunky piece of metal, a nice property, shares in an exciting business that advances the human condition, these investments I can believe in even if they go to zero, or if I die with them and the heirs inherit.
I personally can't enjoy a bitcoin, and will never buy them. If in the future I receive any for payment, I'll respend them on tangible assets.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
A guy came in the shop a few days ago. Sold a few hundred dollars worth of slabbed coins. I asked why he was getting out of coins. He said he was going to buy BITCOIN.
I told him it was about $600 last time I looked. He said it's about $1400 now. I would hate my money stuck in a computer.
A few years ago a guy came into the shop asking if I bought Krugerrands. I said "yes, of course." He said he had one little problem. I asked what that was. He said he had a fire in the home and the 2 gold coins were on the television and melted into the TV. I Told him I don't buy used televisions.