<< <i>Technology/Electronics are deflationary by design. Every year technology improves, prices fall on the old stuff as no one wants them, only to go out and buy the newest item (that will be near worthless next year). Rinse and repeat.
I dont know where many of you live but I can tell you that So Cal is not experiencing any declining prices in food, water, gas. Hell my monthly sewer water trash bill (all one where I live) is $230/month roughly. Roughly 2.5 years ago, it was $140. My grocery bill is up roughly 15% this year (on average). Again, no clue where some of you live (small vs major city) but where I live, sh*t is getting more expensive by the day. People all around me are cutting back more and more. Everyone I talked to is figuring out how they can save without a major interruption in their normal lives. Real estate all around me exploded in the past 18-24 months. I think the market has peaked a bit the past few months as days of inventory has increased and length of time on the market has increased as well. Just my .02. Carry on with the deflation talk. >>
I don't consider my keeping my savings in precious metals to be a hobby. I view it as a necessity.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Technology/Electronics are deflationary by design. Every year technology improves, prices fall on the old stuff as no one wants them, only to go out and buy the newest item (that will be near worthless next year). Rinse and repeat.
I dont know where many of you live but I can tell you that So Cal is not experiencing any declining prices in food, water, gas. Hell my monthly sewer water trash bill (all one where I live) is $230/month roughly. Roughly 2.5 years ago, it was $140. My grocery bill is up roughly 15% this year (on average). Again, no clue where some of you live (small vs major city) but where I live, sh*t is getting more expensive by the day. People all around me are cutting back more and more. Everyone I talked to is figuring out how they can save without a major interruption in their normal lives. Real estate all around me exploded in the past 18-24 months. I think the market has peaked a bit the past few months as days of inventory has increased and length of time on the market has increased as well. Just my .02. Carry on with the deflation talk. >>
You need to move to Jersey. >>
My sewer bill in Central NJ is $105/qtr, same as it was 20 years ago. My water bill is about $50/month but I have two teenagers who take 45 minute showers. I don't want to know what is going on in there. My water bill is up, one of the only utilities that is. So I bought stock in the local water co, AWK, who happens to be the largest public water co in the US, when I noticed they were raising prices. Stock has gone up 150% in the last few years and pays a nice dividend. My garbage bill went DOWN when I called to cancel and switch to a new competitor. They gave me one month free and the next year at $20/month vs normal of $28/month. Before I switched to this garbage company a few years back, who picks up 2X/week, I was paying $32/month for 1X/week pickup with a different company. So add my garbage pickup to the list of things going down in price. Total $105/month
Grain prices plummeting due to record harvests. NG falling. Interest rates falling, etc, etc >>
Looks like Insana is another inflation denier, agreeing with Yellen's bogus 2% inflation count.
This may offer some relief to those wise enough to prepare and consume non processed foods. In the prepared and processed grocery aisle, where a dimes worth of ingredients become a $5.00 box of cereal, the inflation is baked in and will continue upwards.
<< <i>The ironic thing is we are debating whether people can afford the basic things in life on of all places a precious metals forum hosted by a rare coin and collectibles company. 99% of people would never buy a rare coin or precious metal yet the people here who do are crying the blues. Something doesn't add up.
They don't call this the Hobby of Kings because it's cheap. >>
Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
Didn't you read the Facebook or gold thread??? Lol...
<< <i>The ironic thing is we are debating whether people can afford the basic things in life on of all places a precious metals forum hosted by a rare coin and collectibles company. 99% of people would never buy a rare coin or precious metal yet the people here who do are crying the blues. Something doesn't add up.
They don't call this the Hobby of Kings because it's cheap. >>
Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
Didn't you read the Facebook or gold thread??? Lol... >>
Yeah the FB vs gold thread showed just how wrong these guys are. They may eventually someday be right, but eventually we are all dead
Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
More of a government waste issue in my case. Abhorrent to see folks stuck paying for medical care and food stamps for their lazy and slovenly neighbors. Instead of charging the working folks higher income taxes, the invisible tax of printing money is instituted instead.
Rather than acknowledging that all this money printing (which is justified as a "stimulus"), the 8% inflation is minimized to under 2% and those that disagree are treated as heretics.
Voters have gotten sloppy, but several trips to the grocery store hopefully will wizen them up a bit.
<< <i>Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
More of a government waste issue in my case. Abhorrent to see folks stuck paying for medical care and food stamps for their lazy and slovenly neighbors. Instead of charging the working folks higher income taxes, the invisible tax of printing money is instituted instead.
Rather than acknowledging that all this money printing (which is justified as a "stimulus"), the 8% inflation is minimized to under 2% and those that disagree are treated as heretics.
Voters have gotten sloppy, but several trips to the grocery store hopefully will wizen them up a bit. >>
I don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
<< <i>. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. >>
If you ever get out to Southern Arizona, I will be glad to show you my early silver and gold collection.
>>
I've been to Yuma Proving Grounds. Nasty. I don't know how you could live out that way. Very depressed area. Terribly hot dry weather. I was actually at the visitor center at YPG and a road runner walks by not 10 feet from me. Big bird. Looked just like the cartoon. 30 seconds later a coyote walks by in his tracks. Not kidding. That was my trip highlight.
"I don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less. "
Yeah, give it a rest. A lot of us here are tired of hearing this crap over and over.
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<< <i>"I don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less. "
Yeah, give it a rest. A lot of us here are tired of hearing this crap over and over. >>
It might be best that you not open the six month old inflation thread.
Fact is, not only are consumers getting hosed, the house of cards, stock and bond markets will not fare well in a prolonged double digit inflationary environment. Whether I pay $15 or not for a pound of organic almonds is not as important as how much of a beat debt holders are willing to take on a 2.5% 10 year note. When the prices fall to adjust to a more realistic interest rate, stock market will fall in tandem and we will have a collapse that will be worse that 2008. Difference will be, with high inflation, QE 4,5 and 6 will be off the books.
Academic, as none of us on the forum control gov't spending or monetary policy.
Grain prices plummeting due to record harvests. NG falling. Interest rates falling, etc, etc >>
Looks like Insana is another inflation denier, agreeing with Yellen's bogus 2% inflation count.
This may offer some relief to those wise enough to prepare and consume non processed foods. In the prepared and processed grocery aisle, where a dimes worth of ingredients become a $5.00 box of cereal, the inflation is baked in and will continue upwards. >>
For processed foods, as well as restaurant-served foods, what you're paying for is TIME (versus making it yourself) and QUALITY OF PREPARATION (yes, I know the quality is lower versus what you do yourself in your kitchen, but your kitchen isn't scaleable) and yes, PROFIT MARGIN all along the supply chain as "value" is added (once again, value in quotes because some will say they make it worse) Anyway, most agree that those costs are inflating more than the reported core inflation. Pay or don't play, it's the consumer's choice. Want to save TIME? pay up, sonny.
TIME is the only thing that we all have the same amount of, every single day. ~24 hours.
without question, the largest single cost item any person faces is housing. Housing prices are down as are interest rates. Ergo, all the little stuff doesn't matter. My ARM is reset at 2 7/8% for the past five years saving me about $15K+ in interest payments over that time frame. My HELOC is at 2.5% and has been for over 6 years. I dip into it now and then. I'm sure I am not the only person to enjoy low rates. Who cares if milk is $4? I don't drink $15K worth of milk in that time period.
<< <i>without question, the largest single cost item any person faces is housing. Housing prices are down as are interest rates. Ergo, all the little stuff doesn't matter. >>
Inflation's theft of one's labor disguises itself in many small things that add up to much more than one's annual housing expense. The stealth with which it eats away at one's hard earned money has rightfully earned it the nickname of "the hidden tax." A $3,000 a year lower monthly housing expense only helps to reduce the overall loss from inflation suffered from higher prices on other necessities. Yes, I'm saying that the annual rise in the cost of food, medical care, energy and other expenditures, and even taxes, is greater than $3k for the average consumer. For example, look at the percentage of your cell phone bill that goes to the tax man.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>For processed foods, as well as restaurant-served foods, what you're paying for is TIME (versus making it yourself) >>
You have NAILED it Baley. Labor is the only true measure of inflation. Not 99" Sony flat screens or faster and smaller laptops, but labor.
Now one may say that average earnings are stagnant, and I would be one of those, at least in the US. The cost of labor though has risen for the employer as taxes and particularly health care benefits have increased dramatically. So even though J6P is languishing with an inflation sucking 2% annual pay raise, the cost to the employer may be more like 7%.
That is the reason that labor intensive services such as medical care and education have soared in cost, while an obsequious fed tries to offset that with consumer electronics and auto safety improvements.
So a year or so ago I was an orchid collector for my studio, having maybe 20 or so around as models for some paintings. $20-25 on average, potted. Same place today that I got all of them before, 2 for $25.
Wifey actually has 1 of that batch reblooming....I drowned the rest apparently.
The kind of silver dollar we used to buy for $100 to $200 now costs $1000 to $2000!
Also, many of us are switching to generic raisin bran because we can save 39 cents a box, and are sometimes going two or three days between bowls to save even more
<< <i>The kind of silver dollar we used to buy for $100 to $200 now costs $1000 to $2000!
Also, many of us are switching to generic raisin bran because we can save 39 cents a box, and are sometimes going two or three days between bowls to save even more >>
Organically grown raisins are best as the grape crop gets hit with a ton of chemicals and the dehydration process concentrates the toxins by a factor of 8 to 1.
bought a 7 lb. bag of ice yesterday... $3.29! (saved 20 cents with my store card, though, so it felt like a win) such a bag of ice used to cost 99 cents just 6 months ago!
Meanwhile, I'm priced out of the gem seated quarter market; have you priced an 1867-S in MS67 these days? ridiculous!
don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
Good for you being a single person eating spam.
Or are you saying you earn $44000 a mth. Because that's what it would take for my grocery bill to be 5% of my income. Family of 4 takes money to feed.
My favorite steakhouse quit serving 20 oz Porterhouses after 2 decades. Mid range steakhouse that couldn't sell enough at $35 without trimmings to make it worthwhile to stock.
<< <i> don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
Good for you being a single person eating spam.
Or are you saying you earn $44000 a mth. Because that's what it would take for my grocery bill to be 5% of my income. Family of 4 takes money to feed.
My favorite steakhouse quit serving 20 oz Porterhouses after 2 decades. Mid range steakhouse that couldn't sell enough at $35 without trimmings to make it worthwhile to stock. >>
Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs >>
Just feeding one here, but a hundred a week per person seems reasonable if most of the meals are at home. Reality though is much of a families food comes from Starbucks and Chipotle and the roach coach at work.
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs >>
Just feeding one here, but a hundred a week per person seems reasonable if most of the meals are at home. Reality though is much of a families food comes from Starbucks and Chipotle and the roach coach at work. >>
Wow!! I guess I eat much cheaper than most then. There are nights I can feed the whole family dinner for less than $12 (pasta (89c), sauce ($1.99), meatballs ($4), bread ($2), salad ($3)) and have leftovers for the next day's lunch.
Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
BS all you want, but it's true. It's actually over 2K
I don't know how you could possible feed your family of four on $12 and have leftovers, I call BS. LOL, you all must weight 65 lbs wet
Seriously dude, you'd better check with the Mrs. I think she has a surprise for you about how much she's actually spending.
NO offense intended, but you'd better re-check your math. Lets use your ex of $12 a meal with is totally not possible for 4 people. 36 day x 30 = 1080 mth. If that impossibly low figure is 5% of your income, apparently you still make $21,600 mth. With such a low food bill and making $269,200 /yr it must leave a lot of extra money to stack with, Congrats.
If people pay $4 for a coffee then I have no sympathy if they complain food costs to much. Actions speak louder than words. >>
We got a bit derailed here as we approach 500 posts. Many good thoughts and plenty of lighthearted banter.
The reason I started the thread was to put together a de facto CPI based on the experiences of a number of forum members with different spending habits and from many parts of the nation. Clearly the government numbers were by design, understated.
It wasn't a matter of whether one enjoyed a $4 Starbucks and $200 a month worth of cable, vs a fellow who enjoys an instant Folgers and uses rabbit ears. The idea was to see how prices were changing across a broad array of products and services.
Seems that those who believe that they will benefit from a low inflation environment, lean towards understatement. Those with a recently stagnant pile of precious metal, tend to overstate.
lol, just fed 4 adults 2 kids with food left over for lunch for 2-3 people left over, 5 lbs chicken and 6 corn ... $12... Amigo must be over eatin American... Lol...
I think the big range in how much people spend on food depends on how they shop, how much prepared stuff vs made at home, how often they eat out and what they pick.
A couple examples:
When eating out do they need a soda that costs $1-2 or can they have a water and drink a soda at home. Buy some Coke on sale when you get four 12 packs for $8.88 (less than 19 cents a can) (plus you can recycle the cans and get 3-5 cents back).
Salmon can cost $10-$25 a pound but sometimes you can find some types that are good on sale for $3.88 a pound and you can freeze some for when there's no sale and it still tastes about the same.
A box of Kraft Mac N Cheese is $2.77 but the store brand that's about the same is $1.39.
Coupons and sales make a big difference, people might say they have no time for it but it might nip a chunk out of their food cost.
Organic stuff might be better but is it worth the cost? People buy organic stuff but also eat junk food or drink a lot and overall their other habits and lack of exercise probably destroy more health than the organic food benefits their health (if it matters at all).
Expensive coffee is $4-6 or cans of energy drink or tea are $1-2 a can but they could be drinking a bottle of filtered water that they refill from their home water filtered tap.
When eating out do people think of the cost and pick a cheaper place to eat or pick a dish that's still good or they order regardless of price and throw in some overpriced drinks.
My own observation is that among my own friends, the ones with the least money and least security have the most expensive habits and if you suggest ways to save they'll either say it's not enough to matter or they can't do without exactly what they like but still they complain about costs and say they can't save money.
Added: Just to be fair, I know that habits and sales are not part of inflation, it's only part of how we react to inflation. I guess at any time even years ago before the last 50 years of inflation we could have been shopping carefully and using sales.
So how much do we all spend? For me a typical day starts with 2 eggs and 2 strips of bacon on a English muffin with 2 cups of coffee, costs less than $2.50. I usually don't eat lunch but if I do is a banana, or other type of fruit or an energy bar, all less than $2. Dinner is everything from spaghetti, chicken or beef on the grill or pork-- all of which are under $10. Add some veggies, salad or potatoes for $5. Sometimes dinner is under $5, sometimes is $25, but average is less than $15. Add a bowl of ice cream for desert on occasion. All washed down with juice, water, soda, beer, jack Daniels or wine. Total for a day is less than $20 and more importantly around 2000 calories. The kids eat a bowl of cereal with milk and a $4 lunch at school or $1 sandwich from home. $40 a day more than covers a family of 4.
5 years ago the cost wasn't that much different, maybe 10-15% lower. That's 2-3% inflation.
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
BS all you want, but it's true. It's actually over 2K
I don't know how you could possible feed your family of four on $12 and have leftovers, I call BS. LOL, you all must weight 65 lbs wet
Seriously dude, you'd better check with the Mrs. I think she has a surprise for you about how much she's actually spending.
NO offense intended, but you'd better re-check your math. Lets use your ex of $12 a meal with is totally not possible for 4 people. 36 day x 30 = 1080 mth. If that impossibly low figure is 5% of your income, apparently you still make $21,600 mth. With such a low food bill and making $269,200 /yr it must leave a lot of extra money to stack with, Congrats. >>
I do all the shopping.i know where everything is and what the prices are. I buy stuff in bulk on sale and with coupons and the price plus card.
$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks
cost, whether more or less, has to be looked at in the context of real income. Something that has not changed in price has the affect of costing more if real income has declined. For most of America real income has declined.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>cost, whether more or less, has to be looked at in the context of real income. Something that has not changed in price has the affect of costing more if real income has declined. For most of America real income has declined. >>
As well as whether an item is a perceived necessity or an optional purchase.
<< <i>....$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks >>
Let them eat cheerios...lol. I do eat a daily breakfast with organic oats, flax, plant protein mix, raisins, bananas, almonds, cinnamon, organic/unsweetened soy/almond milk. It's essentially a low sugar, low preservatives healthy mix. No boxed sugar frosted junk with cow's milk for me. For lunch: hand-made daily fresh salad and veggie fixings topped with salmon, chicken, or eggs/quinoa probably runs $5. Dinner could be quinoa and beans, brown rice pasta, or even just nuts and fruit....figure another $2 there. I've figured that for just 2 of us the food costs us around $8K-$10K/yr. But just the healthy basics of quality real foods runs about $7K/yr. If I ate just crap food I could do it for half that amount. Feeding a family of 4 with healthy foods for $10K/yr? Forget it. If you're feeding your family pasta from a box the odds are it's pure junk, literally a "dead" food. Same comment for almost all white flour and wheat products. Lots of canned foods with salt, sugar, and BPA? Most of that is junk too. Nature's true whole grains cost real money to buy. While quinoa is technically not a grain it's nearly a perfect food...and it's not cheap. I stopped eating boxed pasta and bread crap about 4 years ago and dropped 50 lbs in the process. Eating right is worth the cost. The medical bills you will save and an improved quality of life years down the road will be your payback. Of course if someone else pays all your med bills then who cares, eat the junk and pass the cost on to your insurer (ie the taxpayers). I don't drink coffee, soda, sweetened juices, or liquor. But the green tea and water I do drink costs about $1,500/yr.
I did see deflation at work yesterday on my BJ's run. Soy milk was down 8% for some reason so I bought two of those. The 30 oz garlic humus was on special for $4 rather than $6....I bought one of those even though we didn't need it yet. 3 lbs bags of blueberries have not gone up in price for a few years. But the 3 lb. bags of almonds and walnuts going up 10% every year counters that. Hey, even the 87 octane gas was down $10c from my last trip while the 93 was up in price. So I put a 70/30% of 87/93 octane mix in my car even though it requires a 91 mix. I was able to buy a set of performance tires for my '99 Chevy last month on a BJ's/mfg coupon. Instead of having to pay $695 for those tires installed/balanced/aligned.....I got 'er done for $555. Without those coupons I probably would have settled for a cheaper brand or lower quality tire (BLS substitution effects in play). Fwiw the OEM replacement tires today would run about $1100/set installed....fat chance of that happening. Performance tire prices are probably 2X the cost of what they were 15 years ago.
<< <i>....$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks >>
Let them eat cheerios...lol. I do eat a daily breakfast with organic oats, flax, plant protein mix, raisins, bananas, almonds, organic/unsweetened soy/almond milk. It's essentially a low sugar, low preservatives healthy mix. No boxed sugar frosted junk with cow's milk for me. For lunch: hand-made daily fresh salad and veggie fixings topped with salmon, chicken, or eggs/quinoa probably runs $5. Dinner could be quinoa and beans, brown rice pasta, or even just nuts and fruit....figure another $2 there. I've figured that for just 2 of us the food costs us around $8K-$10K/yr. But just the healthy basics of quality real foods runs about $7K/yr. If I ate just crap food I could do it on $5/day. Feeding a family of 4 with healthy foods for $10K/yr? Forget it. If you're feeding your family pasta from a box the odds are it's pure junk, literally a "dead" food. Same comment for almost all white flour and wheat products. Nature's true whole grains cost real money to buy. While quinoa is technically not a grain it's nearly a perfect food...and it's not cheap. I stopped eating boxed pasta and bread crap about 4 years ago and dropped 50 lbs in the process. Eating right is worth the cost. The medical bills you will save and an improved quality of life years down the road will be your payback. Of course if someone else pays all your med bills then who cares, eat the junk and pass the cost on to your insurer (ie the taxpayers). >>
We spend about $1,000 a month on food for two of us in Southern California. That includes growing some of our own. We eat very very healthy. It costs to eat healthy. We break up our shopping between evenly between Whole Foods, Ralph's (Kroger's), Trader Joe's and the local farmers market.
MJ
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> We spend about $1,000 a month on food for two of us in Southern California. That includes growing some of our own. We eat very very healthy. It costs to eat healthy. We break up our shopping between evenly between Whole Foods, Ralph's (Kroger's), Trader Joe's and the local farmers market. MJ >>
Exactly MJ. Most of the populace has no clue what it costs to eat healthy. It takes years of scrutinizing labels and doing lots of research just to figure out what's good food and what isn't. And it's only getting harder to find those kinds of food for affordable prices. Worse yet, the govt keeps on sticking its nose into things where it shouldn't. The big pharma's are trying to get a foot hold in health foods and supplements so they can be regulated and profitable for them. This will drive the little guys out of business. Your favorite multi-vitamin or garlic will then have to bought with a prescription....lol. Probably 90% of the "packaged" or "boxed" foods that are called healthy (ie "heart healthy") are probably anything but that. You probably are much stricter than I am when it comes to what's an ok food. I see the typical BJs shopping cart heavily loaded with processed foods. It makes you wonder.
One can eat breakfast or lunch for a buck or less a day, trader joes almond butter, organic fruit jelly spread with no added sugar and Ezekiel bread....
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>One can eat breakfast or lunch for a buck or less a day, trader joes almond butter, organic fruit jelly spread with no added sugar and Ezekiel bread.... >>
TJ's almond butter is $6 or seven bucks a pound. Ezekiel bread is $3.69. Fruit spread is what $2.50. It would take about half of all that to cover my lunch.
Comments
<< <i>Technology/Electronics are deflationary by design. Every year technology improves, prices fall on the old stuff as no one wants them, only to go out and buy the newest item (that will be near worthless next year). Rinse and repeat.
I dont know where many of you live but I can tell you that So Cal is not experiencing any declining prices in food, water, gas. Hell my monthly sewer water trash bill (all one where I live) is $230/month roughly. Roughly 2.5 years ago, it was $140. My grocery bill is up roughly 15% this year (on average). Again, no clue where some of you live (small vs major city) but where I live, sh*t is getting more expensive by the day. People all around me are cutting back more and more. Everyone I talked to is figuring out how they can save without a major interruption in their normal lives. Real estate all around me exploded in the past 18-24 months. I think the market has peaked a bit the past few months as days of inventory has increased and length of time on the market has increased as well. Just my .02. Carry on with the deflation talk.
You need to move to Jersey.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>Technology/Electronics are deflationary by design. Every year technology improves, prices fall on the old stuff as no one wants them, only to go out and buy the newest item (that will be near worthless next year). Rinse and repeat.
I dont know where many of you live but I can tell you that So Cal is not experiencing any declining prices in food, water, gas. Hell my monthly sewer water trash bill (all one where I live) is $230/month roughly. Roughly 2.5 years ago, it was $140. My grocery bill is up roughly 15% this year (on average). Again, no clue where some of you live (small vs major city) but where I live, sh*t is getting more expensive by the day. People all around me are cutting back more and more. Everyone I talked to is figuring out how they can save without a major interruption in their normal lives. Real estate all around me exploded in the past 18-24 months. I think the market has peaked a bit the past few months as days of inventory has increased and length of time on the market has increased as well. Just my .02. Carry on with the deflation talk.
You need to move to Jersey.
My sewer bill in Central NJ is $105/qtr, same as it was 20 years ago. My water bill is about $50/month but I have two teenagers who take 45 minute showers. I don't want to know what is going on in there. My water bill is up, one of the only utilities that is. So I bought stock in the local water co, AWK, who happens to be the largest public water co in the US, when I noticed they were raising prices. Stock has gone up 150% in the last few years and pays a nice dividend. My garbage bill went DOWN when I called to cancel and switch to a new competitor. They gave me one month free and the next year at $20/month vs normal of $28/month. Before I switched to this garbage company a few years back, who picks up 2X/week, I was paying $32/month for 1X/week pickup with a different company. So add my garbage pickup to the list of things going down in price. Total $105/month
Grain prices plummeting due to record harvests. NG falling. Interest rates falling, etc, etc
<< <i>inflation to fall and fall hard
Grain prices plummeting due to record harvests. NG falling. Interest rates falling, etc, etc >>
Looks like Insana is another inflation denier, agreeing with Yellen's bogus 2% inflation count.
This may offer some relief to those wise enough to prepare and consume non processed foods. In the prepared and processed grocery aisle, where a dimes worth of ingredients become a $5.00 box of cereal, the inflation is baked in and will continue upwards.
<< <i>The ironic thing is we are debating whether people can afford the basic things in life on of all places a precious metals forum hosted by a rare coin and collectibles company. 99% of people would never buy a rare coin or precious metal yet the people here who do are crying the blues. Something doesn't add up.
They don't call this the Hobby of Kings because it's cheap. >>
Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
Didn't you read the Facebook or gold thread??? Lol...
<< <i>
<< <i>The ironic thing is we are debating whether people can afford the basic things in life on of all places a precious metals forum hosted by a rare coin and collectibles company. 99% of people would never buy a rare coin or precious metal yet the people here who do are crying the blues. Something doesn't add up.
They don't call this the Hobby of Kings because it's cheap. >>
Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
Didn't you read the Facebook or gold thread??? Lol... >>
Yeah the FB vs gold thread showed just how wrong these guys are. They may eventually someday be right, but eventually we are all dead
More of a government waste issue in my case. Abhorrent to see folks stuck paying for medical care and food stamps for their lazy and slovenly neighbors. Instead of charging the working folks higher income taxes, the invisible tax of printing money is instituted instead.
Rather than acknowledging that all this money printing (which is justified as a "stimulus"), the 8% inflation is minimized to under 2% and those that disagree are treated as heretics.
Voters have gotten sloppy, but several trips to the grocery store hopefully will wizen them up a bit.
<< <i>Lol, I submit to u that it doesn't add up because they don't really "care" about the people, they give all that info because they care about the pm price and think by pointing out what they deem to be obvious, that reflection should be reflected in higher pm prices...
More of a government waste issue in my case. Abhorrent to see folks stuck paying for medical care and food stamps for their lazy and slovenly neighbors. Instead of charging the working folks higher income taxes, the invisible tax of printing money is instituted instead.
Rather than acknowledging that all this money printing (which is justified as a "stimulus"), the 8% inflation is minimized to under 2% and those that disagree are treated as heretics.
Voters have gotten sloppy, but several trips to the grocery store hopefully will wizen them up a bit. >>
I don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
<< <i>. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. >>
If you ever get out to Southern Arizona, I will be glad to show you my early silver and gold collection.
<< <i>
<< <i>. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. >>
If you ever get out to Southern Arizona, I will be glad to show you my early silver and gold collection.
I've been to Yuma Proving Grounds. Nasty. I don't know how you could live out that way. Very depressed area. Terribly hot dry weather.
I was actually at the visitor center at YPG and a road runner walks by not 10 feet from me. Big bird. Looked just like the cartoon. 30 seconds later a coyote walks by in his tracks. Not kidding. That was my trip highlight.
<< <i>Yuma is pretty rugged. I am Southeast of there. We get by. This is Bear Canyon. A nice hike from the cabin.
How can you live without trees?
<< <i>
<< <i>Yuma is pretty rugged. I am Southeast of there. We get by. This is Bear Canyon. A nice hike from the cabin.
How can you live without trees? >>
Elevation is your friend in the desert. Yuma is near sea level. Tucson is at 2400 feet.
Plenty of Palo Verde and Olive and Citrus trees near my place.
Also more precipitation. We get 12" a year, vs 6" in Phoenix and 4" in Vegas.
Yeah, give it a rest.
A lot of us here are tired of hearing this crap over and over.
<< <i>"I don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less. "
Yeah, give it a rest.
A lot of us here are tired of hearing this crap over and over. >>
It might be best that you not open the six month old inflation thread.
Fact is, not only are consumers getting hosed, the house of cards, stock and bond markets will not fare well in a prolonged double digit inflationary environment. Whether I pay $15 or not for a pound of organic almonds is not as important as how much of a beat debt holders are willing to take on a 2.5% 10 year note. When the prices fall to adjust to a more realistic interest rate, stock market will fall in tandem and we will have a collapse that will be worse that 2008. Difference will be, with high inflation, QE 4,5 and 6 will be off the books.
Academic, as none of us on the forum control gov't spending or monetary policy.
<< <i>
<< <i>inflation to fall and fall hard
Grain prices plummeting due to record harvests. NG falling. Interest rates falling, etc, etc >>
Looks like Insana is another inflation denier, agreeing with Yellen's bogus 2% inflation count.
This may offer some relief to those wise enough to prepare and consume non processed foods. In the prepared and processed grocery aisle, where a dimes worth of ingredients become a $5.00 box of cereal, the inflation is baked in and will continue upwards. >>
For processed foods, as well as restaurant-served foods, what you're paying for is TIME (versus making it yourself) and QUALITY OF PREPARATION (yes, I know the quality is lower versus what you do yourself in your kitchen, but your kitchen isn't scaleable) and yes, PROFIT MARGIN all along the supply chain as "value" is added (once again, value in quotes because some will say they make it worse) Anyway, most agree that those costs are inflating more than the reported core inflation. Pay or don't play, it's the consumer's choice. Want to save TIME? pay up, sonny.
TIME is the only thing that we all have the same amount of, every single day. ~24 hours.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>without question, the largest single cost item any person faces is housing. Housing prices are down as are interest rates. Ergo, all the little stuff doesn't matter. >>
Inflation's theft of one's labor disguises itself in many small things that add up to much more than one's annual housing expense. The stealth with which it eats away at one's hard earned money has rightfully earned it the nickname of "the hidden tax." A $3,000 a year lower monthly housing expense only helps to reduce the overall loss from inflation suffered from higher prices on other necessities. Yes, I'm saying that the annual rise in the cost of food, medical care, energy and other expenditures, and even taxes, is greater than $3k for the average consumer. For example, look at the percentage of your cell phone bill that goes to the tax man.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>For processed foods, as well as restaurant-served foods, what you're paying for is TIME (versus making it yourself) >>
You have NAILED it Baley. Labor is the only true measure of inflation. Not 99" Sony flat screens or faster and smaller laptops, but labor.
Now one may say that average earnings are stagnant, and I would be one of those, at least in the US. The cost of labor though has risen for the employer as taxes and particularly health care benefits have increased dramatically. So even though J6P is languishing with an inflation sucking 2% annual pay raise, the cost to the employer may be more like 7%.
That is the reason that labor intensive services such as medical care and education have soared in cost, while an obsequious fed tries to offset that with consumer electronics and auto safety improvements.
OMG, the humanity!
Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
It's the decline of wealth coupled with inflation that is killing this country!
Wifey actually has 1 of that batch reblooming....I drowned the rest apparently.
Ground beef was $6#. Tenderlon $17. Ribeye $12 and about $8-9 for less choice cuts.
Some was listed as Kosher, others as natural grass fed. Seemed pretty pricey though.
Also, many of us are switching to generic raisin bran because we can save 39 cents a box, and are sometimes going two or three days between bowls to save even more
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>The kind of silver dollar we used to buy for $100 to $200 now costs $1000 to $2000! >>
Millions more were bought at $45+ and now worth lil over $20...
<< <i>The kind of silver dollar we used to buy for $100 to $200 now costs $1000 to $2000!
Also, many of us are switching to generic raisin bran because we can save 39 cents a box, and are sometimes going two or three days between bowls to save even more >>
Organically grown raisins are best as the grape crop gets hit with a ton of chemicals and the dehydration process concentrates the toxins by a factor of 8 to 1.
Meanwhile, I'm priced out of the gem seated quarter market; have you priced an 1867-S in MS67 these days? ridiculous!
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>Tsometimes going two or three days between bowls to save even more >>
I'm only going to the toilet 2-3 times per week because its so expensive.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
Good for you being a single person eating spam.
Or are you saying you earn $44000 a mth. Because that's what it would take for my grocery bill to be 5% of my income. Family of 4 takes money to feed.
My favorite steakhouse quit serving 20 oz Porterhouses after 2 decades. Mid range steakhouse that couldn't sell enough at $35 without trimmings to make it worthwhile to stock.
<< <i> don't know what your income is, but trips to the grocery store maybe eat up at most 3%-5% of my income. So to keep harping on something so small tells me you are barely squeaking by and thus your view of things is jaded. Maybe you should get a second job and post less.
Good for you being a single person eating spam.
Or are you saying you earn $44000 a mth. Because that's what it would take for my grocery bill to be 5% of my income. Family of 4 takes money to feed.
My favorite steakhouse quit serving 20 oz Porterhouses after 2 decades. Mid range steakhouse that couldn't sell enough at $35 without trimmings to make it worthwhile to stock. >>
Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs >>
Just feeding one here, but a hundred a week per person seems reasonable if most of the meals are at home. Reality though is much of a families food comes from Starbucks and Chipotle and the roach coach at work.
<< <i>
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs >>
Just feeding one here, but a hundred a week per person seems reasonable if most of the meals are at home. Reality though is much of a families food comes from Starbucks and Chipotle and the roach coach at work. >>
Wow!! I guess I eat much cheaper than most then. There are nights I can feed the whole family dinner for less than $12 (pasta (89c), sauce ($1.99), meatballs ($4), bread ($2), salad ($3)) and have leftovers for the next day's lunch.
If people pay $4 for a coffee then I have no sympathy if they complain food costs to much. Actions speak louder than words.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
BS all you want, but it's true. It's actually over 2K
I don't know how you could possible feed your family of four on $12 and have leftovers, I call BS. LOL, you all must weight 65 lbs wet
Seriously dude, you'd better check with the Mrs. I think she has a surprise for you about how much she's actually spending.
NO offense intended, but you'd better re-check your math. Lets use your ex of $12 a meal with is totally not possible for 4 people. 36 day x 30 = 1080 mth. If that impossibly low figure is 5% of your income, apparently you still make $21,600 mth. With such a low food bill and making $269,200 /yr it must leave a lot of extra money to stack with, Congrats.
<< <i>It ain't food unless it costs a lot.
If people pay $4 for a coffee then I have no sympathy if they complain food costs to much. Actions speak louder than words. >>
We got a bit derailed here as we approach 500 posts. Many good thoughts and plenty of lighthearted banter.
The reason I started the thread was to put together a de facto CPI based on the experiences of a number of forum members with different spending habits and from many parts of the nation. Clearly the government numbers were by design, understated.
It wasn't a matter of whether one enjoyed a $4 Starbucks and $200 a month worth of cable, vs a fellow who enjoys an instant Folgers and uses rabbit ears. The idea was to see how prices were changing across a broad array of products and services.
Seems that those who believe that they will benefit from a low inflation environment, lean towards understatement. Those with a recently stagnant pile of precious metal, tend to overstate.
Amigo must be over eatin American... Lol...
A couple examples:
When eating out do they need a soda that costs $1-2 or can they have a water and drink a soda at home. Buy some Coke on sale when you get four 12 packs for $8.88 (less than 19 cents a can) (plus you can recycle the cans and get 3-5 cents back).
Salmon can cost $10-$25 a pound but sometimes you can find some types that are good on sale for $3.88 a pound and you can freeze some for when there's no sale and it still tastes about the same.
A box of Kraft Mac N Cheese is $2.77 but the store brand that's about the same is $1.39.
Coupons and sales make a big difference, people might say they have no time for it but it might nip a chunk out of their food cost.
Organic stuff might be better but is it worth the cost? People buy organic stuff but also eat junk food or drink a lot and overall their other habits and lack of exercise probably destroy more health than the organic food benefits their health (if it matters at all).
Expensive coffee is $4-6 or cans of energy drink or tea are $1-2 a can but they could be drinking a bottle of filtered water that they refill from their home water filtered tap.
When eating out do people think of the cost and pick a cheaper place to eat or pick a dish that's still good or they order regardless of price and throw in some overpriced drinks.
My own observation is that among my own friends, the ones with the least money and least security have the most expensive habits and if you suggest ways to save they'll either say it's not enough to matter or they can't do without exactly what they like but still they complain about costs and say they can't save money.
Added: Just to be fair, I know that habits and sales are not part of inflation, it's only part of how we react to inflation. I guess at any time even years ago before the last 50 years of inflation we could have been shopping carefully and using sales.
5 years ago the cost wasn't that much different, maybe 10-15% lower. That's 2-3% inflation.
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
<< <i>Family of 4 with one boy who an extreme runner and literally eats for 3. You spend $2K/month on food? I call BS...unless you all weigh 500 lbs
BS all you want, but it's true. It's actually over 2K
I don't know how you could possible feed your family of four on $12 and have leftovers, I call BS. LOL, you all must weight 65 lbs wet
Seriously dude, you'd better check with the Mrs. I think she has a surprise for you about how much she's actually spending.
NO offense intended, but you'd better re-check your math. Lets use your ex of $12 a meal with is totally not possible for 4 people. 36 day x 30 = 1080 mth. If that impossibly low figure is 5% of your income, apparently you still make $21,600 mth. With such a low food bill and making $269,200 /yr it must leave a lot of extra money to stack with, Congrats. >>
I do all the shopping.i know where everything is and what the prices are. I buy stuff in bulk on sale and with coupons and the price plus card.
$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>cost, whether more or less, has to be looked at in the context of real income. Something that has not changed in price has the affect of costing more if real income has declined. For most of America real income has declined. >>
As well as whether an item is a perceived necessity or an optional purchase.
<< <i>....$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks >>
Let them eat cheerios...lol. I do eat a daily breakfast with organic oats, flax, plant protein mix, raisins, bananas, almonds, cinnamon, organic/unsweetened soy/almond milk. It's essentially a low sugar, low preservatives healthy mix. No boxed sugar frosted junk with cow's milk for me. For lunch: hand-made daily fresh salad and veggie fixings topped with salmon, chicken, or eggs/quinoa probably runs $5. Dinner could be quinoa and beans, brown rice pasta, or even just nuts and fruit....figure another $2 there. I've figured that for just 2 of us the food costs us around $8K-$10K/yr. But just the healthy basics of quality real foods runs about $7K/yr. If I ate just crap food I could do it for half that amount. Feeding a family of 4 with healthy foods for $10K/yr? Forget it. If you're feeding your family pasta from a box the odds are it's pure junk, literally a "dead" food. Same comment for almost all white flour and wheat products. Lots of canned foods with salt, sugar, and BPA? Most of that is junk too. Nature's true whole grains cost real money to buy. While quinoa is technically not a grain it's nearly a perfect food...and it's not cheap. I stopped eating boxed pasta and bread crap about 4 years ago and dropped 50 lbs in the process. Eating right is worth the cost. The medical bills you will save and an improved quality of life years down the road will be your payback. Of course if someone else pays all your med bills then who cares, eat the junk and pass the cost on to your insurer (ie the taxpayers). I don't drink coffee, soda, sweetened juices, or liquor. But the green tea and water I do drink costs about $1,500/yr.
I did see deflation at work yesterday on my BJ's run. Soy milk was down 8% for some reason so I bought two of those. The 30 oz garlic humus was on special for $4 rather than $6....I bought one of those even though we didn't need it yet. 3 lbs bags of blueberries have not gone up in price for a few years. But the 3 lb. bags of almonds and walnuts going up 10% every year counters that. Hey, even the 87 octane gas was down $10c from my last trip while the 93 was up in price. So I put a 70/30% of 87/93 octane mix in my car even though it requires a 91 mix. I was able to buy a set of performance tires for my '99 Chevy last month on a BJ's/mfg coupon. Instead of having to pay $695 for those tires installed/balanced/aligned.....I got 'er done for $555. Without those coupons I probably would have settled for a cheaper brand or lower quality tire (BLS substitution effects in play). Fwiw the OEM replacement tires today would run about $1100/set installed....fat chance of that happening. Performance tire prices are probably 2X the cost of what they were 15 years ago.
<< <i>
<< <i>....$12 for breakfast? What do you eat, steak and eggs? Try some fresh fruit or cereal with fruit and milk. Coffee brewed at home (maybe costs 20c/cup) in my 2 year old $5.99 Procter Silex coffee machine bought on sale. My brother has a $1000 cappuccino maker but he "saves" buy one from StarBucks >>
Let them eat cheerios...lol. I do eat a daily breakfast with organic oats, flax, plant protein mix, raisins, bananas, almonds, organic/unsweetened soy/almond milk. It's essentially a low sugar, low preservatives healthy mix. No boxed sugar frosted junk with cow's milk for me. For lunch: hand-made daily fresh salad and veggie fixings topped with salmon, chicken, or eggs/quinoa probably runs $5. Dinner could be quinoa and beans, brown rice pasta, or even just nuts and fruit....figure another $2 there. I've figured that for just 2 of us the food costs us around $8K-$10K/yr. But just the healthy basics of quality real foods runs about $7K/yr. If I ate just crap food I could do it on $5/day. Feeding a family of 4 with healthy foods for $10K/yr? Forget it. If you're feeding your family pasta from a box the odds are it's pure junk, literally a "dead" food. Same comment for almost all white flour and wheat products. Nature's true whole grains cost real money to buy. While quinoa is technically not a grain it's nearly a perfect food...and it's not cheap. I stopped eating boxed pasta and bread crap about 4 years ago and dropped 50 lbs in the process. Eating right is worth the cost. The medical bills you will save and an improved quality of life years down the road will be your payback. Of course if someone else pays all your med bills then who cares, eat the
junk and pass the cost on to your insurer (ie the taxpayers). >>
We spend about $1,000 a month on food for two of us in Southern California. That includes growing some of our own. We eat very very healthy. It costs to eat healthy. We break up our shopping between evenly between Whole Foods, Ralph's (Kroger's), Trader Joe's and the local farmers market.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i> We spend about $1,000 a month on food for two of us in Southern California. That includes growing some of our own. We eat very very healthy. It costs to eat healthy. We break up our shopping between evenly between Whole Foods, Ralph's (Kroger's), Trader Joe's and the local farmers market. MJ >>
Exactly MJ. Most of the populace has no clue what it costs to eat healthy. It takes years of scrutinizing labels and doing lots of research just to figure out what's good food and what isn't. And it's only getting harder to find those kinds of food for affordable prices. Worse yet, the govt keeps on sticking its nose into things where it shouldn't. The big pharma's are trying to get a foot hold in health foods and supplements so they can be regulated and profitable for them. This will drive the little guys out of business. Your favorite multi-vitamin or garlic will then have to bought with a prescription....lol. Probably 90% of the "packaged" or "boxed" foods that are called healthy (ie "heart healthy") are probably anything but that. You probably are much stricter than I am when it comes to what's an ok food. I see the typical BJs shopping cart heavily loaded with processed foods. It makes you wonder.
MJ
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>One can eat breakfast or lunch for a buck or less a day, trader joes almond butter, organic fruit jelly spread with no added sugar and Ezekiel bread.... >>
TJ's almond butter is $6 or seven bucks a pound. Ezekiel bread is $3.69. Fruit spread is what $2.50. It would take about half of all that to cover my lunch.