<< <i>Looking at completed sales I see lots and lots of losses. >>
Though I have not really following the the prices recently, I guess you are seeing different numbers than HATTRICK. Maybe you bought at inflated prices (just what were these inflated prices) and are now are taking a bath but I am green on them based upon the prices HATTRICK is seeing.
<< <i>$1640 issue price plus grading fees ($70) comes to $1710. Add apx. $225 selling fees/shipping (based on $2300 sale) and the total is apx. $1935.
$2300 Sale price -$1935 total cost = apx. $365 profit
That's very good, I wish I'd submitted a herd.
How about it dealers, do any of you regret being involved with the Reverse Proof Buffalo, and why? >>
Your numbers are off. The total fees are $300.00, grading fees $90, leaving net proceeds of $263 less tax and you're at or around $190 net.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing but keep in mind this also assumes a 70 Grade at PCGS.
I didn't buy any any simply wondered how they were doing. I took a look at completed listings and my observations I think were spot on. The raws after fees are a loss. The 69's look the same way, with a small or even on the sealed. The NGC 70's again after fees looked even or maybe a few bucks.
<< <i>+++ POPULATION UPDATE +++ The total graded went up just 174 if you compare the total for 520050 to last weeks total. FS totals went up just 34. non-FS increased 140. My prediction that by October 20th almost all first strike rush coins to be graded and reported appears to be coming true. Next week I will make a final post of the population report. I speculate new FS numbers will be under 20. The percentages continue the trend from last week with FS 70/69 at 66%/33%, non-FS 70/69 at 39%/60%. For easy reference here is last weeks report:
edited to correct my bad math >>
The PR-65 Very interesting to me
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
<< <i>+++ POPULATION UPDATE +++ The total graded went up just 174 if you compare the total for 520050 to last weeks total. FS totals went up just 34. non-FS increased 140. My prediction that by October 20th almost all first strike rush coins to be graded and reported appears to be coming true. Next week I will make a final post of the population report. I speculate new FS numbers will be under 20. The percentages continue the trend from last week with FS 70/69 at 66%/33%, non-FS 70/69 at 39%/60%. For easy reference here is last weeks report:
edited to correct my bad math >>
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
ebays selling fees on a $2300 coin are only $110.40 if the seller has an ebay store (6% FVF) and is getting the 20% discount for being a top rated seller.
Evidence is optional in the modern court of opinion.
<< <i>ebays selling fees on a $2300 coin are only $110.40 if the seller has an ebay store (6% FVF) and is getting the 20% discount for being a top rated seller. >>
Don't forget PayPal's vig...2.9%
I have a store, so I get the 6% FVF rate, but I don't do enough volume to get the 20% discount. For me, 10% gives me a close approximation of fees (6% + 2.9%) plus postage and insurance.
<< <i>ebays selling fees on a $2300 coin are only $110.40 if the seller has an ebay store (6% FVF) and is getting the 20% discount for being a top rated seller. >>
Don't forget PayPal's vig...2.9%
I have a store, so I get the 6% FVF rate, but I don't do enough volume to get the 20% discount. For me, 10% gives me a close approximation of fees (6% + 2.9%) plus postage and insurance. >>
Beautiful gold coin - beautiful girl - two special
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
+++ POPULATION REPORT +++ Here is my last population report update. Total graded went up 442 with the majority being in the non-FS catagory. FS increased more than my prediction at +38 opposed to my guess of under 20. Percentages of those graded in 69/70 are running about the opposite. FS is 33%/66%, non-FS 60%/39% respectively. Only 21 being graded 68 or below for FS, just 2 graded 68 or lower for non-FS.
<< <i>+++ POPULATION REPORT +++ Here is my last population report update. Total graded went up 442 with the majority being in the non-FS catagory. FS increased more than my prediction at +38 opposed to my guess of under 20. Percentages of those graded in 69/70 are running about the opposite. FS is 33%/66%, non-FS 60%/39% respectively. Only 21 being graded 68 or below for FS, just 2 graded 68 or lower for non-FS. >>
The PR-65 For sale? There is a picture?
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
<< <i>New PCGS 70 FS sales for Saturday are $ 2,395 and a best offer between $ 2,445 - $ 2,475.
If the adjusted sales number shows a large percentage decrease expect an increase in prices to $ 2,700 - $ 3,000 for these. >>
Completed auctions indicate no change in price ... still in the $2250- to $2300, with an occasional higher or lower exception. The number of sales, do not indicate your above optimistic increase in price prediction. Supply (lots) Demand fair to good... Time will tell.
<< <i>New PCGS 70 FS sales for Saturday are $ 2,395 and a best offer between $ 2,445 - $ 2,475.
If the adjusted sales number shows a large percentage decrease expect an increase in prices to $ 2,700 - $ 3,000 for these. >>
Completed auctions indicate no change in price ... still in the $2250- to $2300, with an occasional higher or lower exception. The number of sales, do not indicate your above optimistic increase in price prediction. Supply (lots) Demand fair to good... Time will tell.
<< <i>Good lord, the appearance of the NGC slabbed same grade Buffalo sucks!
It looks like it's suspended in cheap black foam surrounding the coin with equally cheap plastic.
Go PCGS! >>
I love the work and the result of both
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
Geeezz mine finally shipped (ordered last day)! To arrive tomorrow. Last of the batch from the Mint. Hope they aren't beaters...
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
FINALLY got mine today. This site is awfully quite. No others?
This should be the end of the sales since I ordered the last day. Any hope?
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
Abraham Lincoln (February 12, 1809 – April 15, 1865) 5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted: 02121809 04151865 Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$ Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
Got 2 in the mail from the mint yesterday. My nephew says. "WOW, look ". I said, "There goes the FIRST STRIKE opportunity". He looked at me and said , "What ?" I said, "You opened the box ?" He asked me what I would do. I said, "just give them to my grandchildren, now. Maybe they'll be worth something in 18 years… and just maybe kids will start collecting again, then. "
I wonder how much pull big dealers have with the top grading companies to get coins graded First Strike after the deadline? I would hope none but when the biggest single submitter's dollars speak, they may get their way. Again, I would hope not but in today's society, who knows!
<< <i>I wonder how much pull big dealers have with the top grading companies to get coins graded First Strike after the deadline? I would hope none but when the biggest single submitter's dollars speak, they may get their way. Again, I would hope not but in today's society, who knows! >>
Not much of a chance a grading company would risk it's reputation for something like that. The real posibility would be that a single rouge employee
would be able to fudge documents, switch labels or sneak something in or out the back door. That is why good security and controls are needed in every
business. Stuff happens!
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
<< <i>I wonder how much pull big dealers have with the top grading companies to get coins graded First Strike after the deadline? I would hope none but when the biggest single submitter's dollars speak, they may get their way. Again, I would hope not but in today's society, who knows! >>
Not much of a chance a grading company would risk it's reputation for something like that. The real posibility would be that a single rouge employee
would be able to fudge documents, switch labels or sneak something in or out the back door. That is why good security and controls are needed in every
business. Stuff happens! >>
PCGS does not have any single customer that has that great of an influence. From their last 10Q filed with the SEC: Five of our coin authentication and grading customers accounted, in the aggregate, for approximately 13% of our total net revenues in the three months ended September 30, 2013
So maybe the TOP submitter accounted for 4% of total revenue. Not much influence IMO.
Just to play the devil's advocate, why do you think First Strike is worth than non-First Strike? I don't play that game nor do I play the Modern 70 game but I would like to hear your rationale.
<< <i>why do you think First Strike is worth than non-First Strike? >>
The same reason some people think an old coin is worth more than a new coin or a prettier coin is worth more than a plain coin. The funny part is when I first started collection (many years ago - before plastic), a "rainbow" colored coin were consiidered worthless or damaged compared t a pure silver colored coin. Then, marketing started pushing "toned" coins and people bought into it. Are toned coins really woth more than a non-toned coin? It is kind of the same for labels. Some people think so.
To me, collecting plastic coins is like catching a record fish where someone else has the boat, the gear, baits the hook, sets the hook, reels the fish to the side of the boat and lets you hold the rod while they gaff it! The biggest challege for me "collecting" coins was find the best I could find for face value using my own eyes.
I am a collector who prefers shiney silver proofs such as ASE's and Comms.. As I had grandchildren born in 2010 & 2013 I purchased a number of coins from thoes years
in slabs to put away until they are grown up. As the rules are so lax first strikes truly have no real value. They are mearly marketing ploys aimed at the people who desire to have
a limited edition that someone else does not. The huckster on HSN with their First Day of Issue labels is a prime example. I have bought First Strikes only for the following reasons.
1.) They are usually the first ones for sale and most often their first sales price is lower than the going price by time the non first strikes are available if it is a popular coin.
2.) In slabs I like the PCGS Flag label "for some reason" and it only comes in First Strike.
I believe that years from now only the condition and mintage will effect the value and nobody will give a $hit about First Strike.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Comments
$2,250 $2,295 $2,350 and Yesterday $2,395
I want to know who got the PR65 FS! Any bets it is no longer in the slab and has either been sold or is being sold in the Mint packaging?
Looking at completed sales I see lots and lots of losses.
Besides perhaps the self made PCGS 70's, as keep in mind many bought these at an inflated price, these hardly look like a winner at this point.
What am I missing here?
Some of us are small time collectors of modest means. Buying two $1,800 Buffalos was a big investment for me.
With the PCGS 70 FS Reverse Proof selling for $ 500 more than I paid compared to $ 500 less it is a winner to me.
As is often the case the early high premiums paid for the ANA labels have came down and will be a loss for many.
<< <i>Looking at completed sales I see lots and lots of losses. >>
Though I have not really following the the prices recently, I guess you are seeing different numbers than HATTRICK. Maybe you bought at inflated prices (just what were these inflated prices) and are now are taking a bath but I am green on them based upon the prices HATTRICK is seeing.
$2300 Sale price
-$1935 total cost = apx. $365 profit
That's very good, I wish I'd submitted a herd.
How about it dealers, do any of you regret being involved with the Reverse Proof Buffalo, and why?
<< <i>$1640 issue price plus grading fees ($70) comes to $1710. Add apx. $225 selling fees/shipping (based on $2300 sale) and the total is apx. $1935.
$2300 Sale price
-$1935 total cost = apx. $365 profit
That's very good, I wish I'd submitted a herd.
How about it dealers, do any of you regret being involved with the Reverse Proof Buffalo, and why? >>
Your numbers are off. The total fees are $300.00, grading fees $90, leaving net proceeds of $263 less tax and you're at or around $190 net.
I'm not saying this is a bad thing but keep in mind this also assumes a 70 Grade at PCGS.
I didn't buy any any simply wondered how they were doing. I took a look at completed listings and my observations I think were spot on. The raws after fees are a loss. The 69's look the same way, with a small or even on the sealed. The NGC 70's again after fees looked even or maybe a few bucks.
<< <i>Fees aren't that high for bulk submitters that have a Ebay store. >>
Oh sorry, I didn't realize the above referenced sales numbers were from bulk submitters w/ebay stores...my bad...
<< <i>+++ POPULATION UPDATE +++
The total graded went up just 174 if you compare the total for 520050 to last weeks total. FS totals went up just 34. non-FS increased 140. My prediction that by October 20th almost all first strike rush coins to be graded and reported appears to be coming true. Next week I will make a final post of the population report. I speculate new FS numbers will be under 20.
The percentages continue the trend from last week with FS 70/69 at 66%/33%, non-FS 70/69 at 39%/60%.
For easy reference here is last weeks report:
edited to correct my bad math
The PR-65 Very interesting to me
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
I was going for it
Text
<< <i>+++ POPULATION UPDATE +++
The total graded went up just 174 if you compare the total for 520050 to last weeks total. FS totals went up just 34. non-FS increased 140. My prediction that by October 20th almost all first strike rush coins to be graded and reported appears to be coming true. Next week I will make a final post of the population report. I speculate new FS numbers will be under 20.
The percentages continue the trend from last week with FS 70/69 at 66%/33%, non-FS 70/69 at 39%/60%.
For easy reference here is last weeks report:
edited to correct my bad math
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
Evidence is optional in the modern court of opinion.
<< <i>ebays selling fees on a $2300 coin are only $110.40 if the seller has an ebay store (6% FVF) and is getting the 20% discount for being a top rated seller. >>
Don't forget PayPal's vig...2.9%
I have a store, so I get the 6% FVF rate, but I don't do enough volume to get the 20% discount. For me, 10% gives me a close approximation of fees (6% + 2.9%) plus postage and insurance.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>
<< <i>ebays selling fees on a $2300 coin are only $110.40 if the seller has an ebay store (6% FVF) and is getting the 20% discount for being a top rated seller. >>
Don't forget PayPal's vig...2.9%
I have a store, so I get the 6% FVF rate, but I don't do enough volume to get the 20% discount. For me, 10% gives me a close approximation of fees (6% + 2.9%) plus postage and insurance. >>
Don't forget the free ship cost on a 2,200 coin
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
bump
the Reverse Proof Buffalo also. It will be interesting to see what the final mintage number will be.
Here is my last population report update. Total graded went up 442 with the majority being in the non-FS catagory. FS increased more than my prediction at +38 opposed to my guess of under 20.
Percentages of those graded in 69/70 are running about the opposite. FS is 33%/66%, non-FS 60%/39% respectively. Only 21 being graded 68 or below for FS, just 2 graded 68 or lower for non-FS.
<< <i>+++ POPULATION REPORT +++
Here is my last population report update. Total graded went up 442 with the majority being in the non-FS catagory. FS increased more than my prediction at +38 opposed to my guess of under 20.
Percentages of those graded in 69/70 are running about the opposite. FS is 33%/66%, non-FS 60%/39% respectively. Only 21 being graded 68 or below for FS, just 2 graded 68 or lower for non-FS.
The PR-65
For sale? There is a picture?
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
If the adjusted sales number shows a large percentage decrease expect an increase in prices to $ 2,700 - $ 3,000 for these.
<< <i>New PCGS 70 FS sales for Saturday are $ 2,395 and a best offer between $ 2,445 - $ 2,475.
If the adjusted sales number shows a large percentage decrease expect an increase in prices to $ 2,700 - $ 3,000 for these. >>
Completed auctions indicate no change in price ... still in the $2250- to $2300, with an occasional higher or lower exception. The number of sales, do not indicate your above optimistic increase in price prediction. Supply (lots) Demand fair to good... Time will tell.
eBay completed auctions
<< <i>
<< <i>New PCGS 70 FS sales for Saturday are $ 2,395 and a best offer between $ 2,445 - $ 2,475.
If the adjusted sales number shows a large percentage decrease expect an increase in prices to $ 2,700 - $ 3,000 for these. >>
Completed auctions indicate no change in price ... still in the $2250- to $2300, with an occasional higher or lower exception. The number of sales, do not indicate your above optimistic increase in price prediction. Supply (lots) Demand fair to good... Time will tell.
eBay completed auctions >>
It would appear your link supports HATTRICK increase in $$ sales number.
It looks like it's suspended in cheap black foam surrounding the coin with equally cheap plastic.
Go PCGS!
We can enjoy the rising prices and hope for the best.
" Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain " We are not in Kansas any more.
<< <i>Good lord, the appearance of the NGC slabbed same grade Buffalo sucks!
It looks like it's suspended in cheap black foam surrounding the coin with equally cheap plastic.
Go PCGS! >>
I love the work and the result of both
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
Any news on an adjusted sales total comming soon ?????
<< <i>Any news on an adjusted sales total comming soon ????? >>
Check here Tuesday evening (47,836 as of Monday, Nov. 11)
Evidence is optional in the modern court of opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>Any news on an adjusted sales total comming soon ????? >>
Check here Tuesday evening (47,836 as of Monday, Nov. 11) >>
derryb,
Thanks for the link. I have added it to my favorites for future reference.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Any news on an adjusted sales total comming soon ????? >>
Check here Tuesday evening (47,836 as of Monday, Nov. 11) >>
derryb,
Thanks for the link. I have added it to my favorites for future reference. >>
That link is not updated, as we know the 2 piece silver set was marked down in mintage by the mint but the original figure is still there.
Cashback from Mr. Rebates
2179
2175
prices are holding.
Last sale is from Oct.
This should be the end of the sales since I ordered the last day. Any hope?
5$ bills are WOW with the numbers - wanted:
02121809
04151865
Wanted - Flipper notes with the numbers 6-9 or 0-6-9 ON 1$ 2$ 5$ 10$ 20$
Wanted - 10$ Sereis 2013 - fancy Serial Numbers
I said, "You opened the box ?" He asked me what I would do. I said, "just give them to my grandchildren, now. Maybe they'll be worth something in 18 years… and just maybe kids will start collecting again, then. "
today in history
the price fell from $ 2,800 - $ 3,000 price range to the current $ 2,100 - $ 2,200 price range. So much for the artificial " Limited"
number of First Strikes.
The main attraction in the First Strike coins is the limited number. When more can appear out of the woodwork months or even years down the road
it will eventually destroy the premiums and desireability of First Strike. While it is ok to allow sealed submittals for a short period
after 30 days to allow for shipping delays, ect. it should be cut off after a short period to set a final population. Having an unlimited
time frame leaves too many possibilites that will be detrimental to the future value of First Strike coins.
Now that the final shipments of the Reverse Proofs are being done, Hopefully we will see a revised sales number from the mint.
If it lowers the total number enough to create additional value you can expect another batch of first strikes to come out of the woodwork.
When there is money to be made things will happen.
<< <i>I wonder how much pull big dealers have with the top grading companies to get coins graded First Strike after the deadline? I would hope none but when the biggest single submitter's dollars speak, they may get their way. Again, I would hope not but in today's society, who knows! >>
Not much of a chance a grading company would risk it's reputation for something like that. The real posibility would be that a single rouge employee
would be able to fudge documents, switch labels or sneak something in or out the back door. That is why good security and controls are needed in every
business. Stuff happens!
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder how much pull big dealers have with the top grading companies to get coins graded First Strike after the deadline? I would hope none but when the biggest single submitter's dollars speak, they may get their way. Again, I would hope not but in today's society, who knows! >>
Not much of a chance a grading company would risk it's reputation for something like that. The real posibility would be that a single rouge employee
would be able to fudge documents, switch labels or sneak something in or out the back door. That is why good security and controls are needed in every
business. Stuff happens! >>
PCGS does not have any single customer that has that great of an influence. From their last 10Q filed with the SEC:
Five of our coin authentication and grading customers accounted, in the aggregate, for approximately 13% of our total net revenues in the three months ended September 30, 2013
So maybe the TOP submitter accounted for 4% of total revenue. Not much influence IMO.
affects the so called "limited" population and greatly diminishes the value of a First Strike IMO.
Also the range in quality of 70 graded moderen coins leaves plenty of room for doubt IMO.
I believe there needs to be a little improvement in the consistancy of the grading standards for modern coins.
<< <i>why do you think First Strike is worth than non-First Strike? >>
The same reason some people think an old coin is worth more than a new coin or a prettier coin is worth more than a plain coin. The funny part is when I first started collection (many years ago - before plastic), a "rainbow" colored coin were consiidered worthless or damaged compared t a pure silver colored coin. Then, marketing started pushing "toned" coins and people bought into it. Are toned coins really woth more than a non-toned coin? It is kind of the same for labels. Some people think so.
To me, collecting plastic coins is like catching a record fish where someone else has the boat, the gear, baits the hook, sets the hook, reels the fish to the side of the boat and lets you hold the rod while they gaff it! The biggest challege for me "collecting" coins was find the best I could find for face value using my own eyes.
in slabs to put away until they are grown up. As the rules are so lax first strikes truly have no real value. They are mearly marketing ploys aimed at the people who desire to have
a limited edition that someone else does not. The huckster on HSN with their First Day of Issue labels is a prime example. I have bought First Strikes only for the following reasons.
1.) They are usually the first ones for sale and most often their first sales price is lower than the going price by time the non first strikes are available if it is a popular coin.
2.) In slabs I like the PCGS Flag label "for some reason" and it only comes in First Strike.
I believe that years from now only the condition and mintage will effect the value and nobody will give a $hit about First Strike.