<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now. >>
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now. >>
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen?
+++ NEW POPULATION REPORT +++ The regular population report has been updated. The missing "base" (non-FS) is now shown There have been 2 non-FS 69's graded. Non-ANA FS percentages are : 70=78.3%, 69=21.5%, 68 and lower=0.2%
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now. >>
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december >>
1. Do Not count on a better price on this coin anytime soon if ever.
2. Congress will drive the nail in the coffin of the stock market soon. Expect a major crash before the end of the year.
Financial advisors:
Duie, Cheatem & Howe
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Just so everyone knows, particularly if you are having problems finding Reverse Proof Buffalos.....at a reasonable price....
I just received my PR70's from Ian Russel at GreatCollections .com.
Cheap beyond belief - I ordered early - received exactly what I asked for - First Strike, Buffalo label with 100th Anniversary. I needed them to exactly match my PR70DCAM regular proofs that I also bought from him (...at a rediculous cheap price).
With all of the turmoil surrounding these reverse proofs.... Mint order period, ANA sales, PCGS grading times (they are/were swamped) ... Ian Russel kept me super informed all along, even to email me when the Mint started selling them at the ANA show.
You would die if you found out what I paid - it definitely pays to commit early, and then confidently sit back and let Ian do all the work :-)
<< <i>Just so everyone knows, particularly if you are having problems finding Reverse Proof Buffalos.....at a reasonable price....
I just received my PR70's from Ian Russel at GreatCollections .com.
Cheap beyond belief - I ordered early - received exactly what I asked for - First Strike, Buffalo label with 100th Anniversary. I needed them to exactly match my PR70DCAM regular proofs that I also bought from him (...at a rediculous cheap price).
With all of the turmoil surrounding these reverse proofs.... Mint order period, ANA sales, PCGS grading times (they are/were swamped) ... Ian Russel kept me super informed all along, even to email me when the Mint started selling them at the ANA show.
You would die if you found out what I paid - it definitely pays to commit early, and then confidently sit back and let Ian do all the work :-)
Thanks for everything Ian. >>
Okay, I'll bite???
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
After reading posts by Hattrick (rising price levels for Buffalo RPs) and Kudbegud (PCGS grading population), I did some searches and came up with these thoughts. I also consulted Eric Jordan’s book “Modern Commemorative Coins”.
1. Price levels for Buffalo Reverse Proof Pr70s has risen (from $1878 to $2200+) based upon dealer websites and eBay sales. (In interest of full disclosure, I benefited from John Maben’s fantastic offer.)
2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation.
4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own.
5. The value of sealed boxes eligible for first strike is interesting. The value of a sealed box would seem to be (price of a PR70 -$100 grading fees) x probability of PR70 with a minimum value of $1,740 (the last US Mint sales price).
6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage.
Any thoughts? Note these views are worth what you paid for it.
<< <i>After reading posts by Hattrick (rising price levels for Buffalo RPs) and Kudbegud (PCGS grading population), I did some searches and came up with these thoughts. I also consulted Eric Jordan’s book “Modern Commemorative Coins”.
1. Price levels for Buffalo Reverse Proof Pr70s has risen (from $1878 to $2200+) based upon dealer websites and eBay sales. (In interest of full disclosure, I benefited from John Maben’s fantastic offer.)
2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation.
4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own.
5. The value of sealed boxes eligible for first strike is interesting. The value of a sealed box would seem to be (price of a PR70 -$100 grading fees) x probability of PR70 with a minimum value of $1,740 (the last US Mint sales price).
6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage.
Any thoughts? Note these views are worth what you paid for it. >>
our coin club has jumped in on the 2006 gold sets.. 2006 silver sets and the 2008 rev 2007 eagles ...to buy and sell several times..at 1st thought we were prepared to buy over 50 of graded 2013 GOLD reverse proofs....but saw limited upside potenial in the near term..so we passed....
<< <i>our coin club has jumped in on the 2006 gold sets.. 2006 silver sets and the 2008 rev 2007 eagles ...to buy and sell several times..at 1st thought we were prepared to buy over 50 of graded 2013 GOLD reverse proofs....but saw limited upside potenial in the near term..so we passed.... >>
Ah, I remember those same opinions regarding the UHR.
<< <i>2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation. >>
By the projected ship date on outstanding orders at the mint, everyone should have their Buffalos in hand by 10/15. Within a week (10/22) those already inclined to and enthusiastic enough will have submitted their coins for grading. Being way beyond the First Strike limit will discourage some but not most who fit this category of collector. A month later (11/22) most of those coins will have been slabbed and in customers hands once again. The Sunday (11/24) regular population report update will reflect all these enthusiast grading rush. There after the volume reducing to a trickle of new acquisitions and sealed box submissions. We will then know the approximate number that have been graded by PCGS. Somebody else will have to report the other guys numbers (ANACS, NGC and the rest) to determine the percentage of graded vs raw for the entire mintage. When the mint will publish the audited mintage report is anybodies guess. December? The grade percentages of PCGS graded coins can then be estimated and implied to the mintage as a whole....of course only from those submitted...those held raw or sealed being the question mark, but still implied to follow the reported population percentages.
<< <i>4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own. >>
Ever since different labels were introduced they became a sub category for completest collectors. And a money maker for the TPG companies.
<< <i>6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage. >>
Like stocks, the market follows its own path with its own reasoning and logic, not always rational or understandable. Then the Mint, with its own rationale issues coins for maximum profits, the collector seldom being considered. Lets see in a year or two how this Buffalo holds up.
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now. >>
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december >>
The stock market at this point seems to very ripe for a significant correction.
Just took delivery of my Mint product. Hard to imagine it still qualifies for First Strike after all this time but checking dates indicates it does. Now for the decision as to whether or not open the box.......hummmmmm First Strike or not?....... Too many choices!!! I sure would have liked one of those Buffalo Labels though....
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
<< <i>Just took delivery of my Mint product. Hard to imagine it still qualifies for First Strike after all this time but checking dates indicates it does. Now for the decision as to whether or not open the box.......hummmmmm First Strike or not?....... Too many choices!!! I sure would have liked one of those Buffalo Labels though.... >>
Open the box before you send to PCGS.....enjoy before she is entombed. PCGS goes by the postmark, no need to keep the box closed, unless you want to send it in after the cutoff date.
edited to add: Rec'd my PR70 from GM today.......that was certainly a timely transaction.
Got in at the $1,889.00 price.
The coin I got from the Mint cost me $1,640 + $95 PCGS fees/S&H + S&H to PCGS $25 = $1,760. Ended up with a PR69 that is worth somewhere around $1,900. The PR70 is going for $2,200+....Bottom line, the coin bought from GM was twice the 'profit.' I can't complain.....as I have two really cool Gold RPGB coins that are really fun to play with. Now, if they go up in value in the next few years, I won't be complaining!
Based upon comments by forum members, you may only get the FS Flag label, if you submit yourself.
You would have to buy the Buffalo RP with the FS Buffalo label. There may be some on the BST where you might be able to also sell your sealed box, if that is what you want to do.
I wanted the Buffalo RP with the FS Buffalo label and bought it from a dealer (John Maben).
Today I received the RP Buffalo I had ordered from Goldmart the day before the special deal from MCM. It arrived in a priority mail box and the OGP as well as the coin were in perfect condition. Paid $ 1889 and have no complaints this time. Well packaged, excellent condition and timely shipping.
Will keep one for myself and ordered an engraved wood box to put one along with a regular proof as a set.
Will enjoy it for the next twenty something years then it will be a gift to my grandson who was born on labor day weekend.
This will probably fill my safe deposit box. It was a good thing I opted for the large box when I got it 30 years ago as our
bank has not had one available since then. Last time they told me people pass them on in their wills and they have not
had one become available in thirty years. I will have to sell something to make room if I decide to buy anything else and
to get the funds to buy it.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Just received my RP Buffalo in today. With the regular proof buffalo, both coins will make a perfect proof 2013 Buffalo type set. I examined both coins with a 58 mm 1.4 lens and could not find any blemishes, spots, scars, nicks, etc. on either coin. I'm going to keep both coins in the regular OGP, as I'm not particularly interested in putting them in a slab or having a special label on them. For me, these coins are better in their OGP. It will make for a perfect set to pass on to my son, when I check out of this world.
Thanks for the thoughtful input. Since my PCGS membership has lapsed and is needing renewal, i likely won't get it together for submission before the deadline. So i likely should not crack the box, as tempting as that is.. First strike premiums are likely worth the wait... I'll look into what the unopened FS eligible boxes are going for.... Might be worth my while....
I'm not fond of the flag label.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
I got my reverse proof FS 70 from Gold Mart also today. Looks great. I have had no problems at all with them even in the past. I also have a sealed FS Eligible one. trying to make up for selling my PCGS FS 70s Reverse Proof AGE and Reverse Proof APEs this year.
I believe normally MCM does not include OGP with graded purchases, probably a lot of hassle with their volume. I believe John made an exception on OGP with his special offer to forum members. MCM used to have a subsidary that sold only OGP, don't know if they still do. Maybe John will enlighten us.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
I believe normally MCM does not include OGP with graded purchases, probably a lot of hassle with their volume. I believe John made an exception on OGP with his special offer to forum members. MCM used to have a subsidary that sold only OGP, don't know if they still do. Maybe John will enlighten us. >>
Sometimes we include it, sometimes we don't. If it says we include it in the description we do, if it doesn't then we don't. However, we've never said no to anyone that requested it when buying a 70 graded coin as long as we have it to give....
69's are a different story. We frequently lose money on these or make very little and therefore a service charge applies for OGP.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I finally got my order from USM. While inspecting the coin under 20X magnification I can see quite a few spots with some white residue on both sides on otherwise what look like a nice-looking sample. What are my options?
1) Is this something that can come off by dipping it into acetone or distilled water 2) Keep it as is since its not wisible by the naked eye 3) Send it back and ask for replacement and hope not to get even worse reject 4) Just send it back for refund
1) Is this something that can come off by dipping it into acetone or distilled water 2) Keep it as is since its not wisible by the naked eye 3) Send it back and ask for replacement and hope not to get even worse reject 4) Just send it back for refund
Opinions are appreciated >>
If you can see something on the edge now, I would send it back and purchase one that is already graded.
I would be concerned for an unfavorable development in the future.
I have had too many .9999 Gold (2008-W) Buffalos develop Red Spots, from Mint Employee contamination.
Who knows what "White Residue", would turn in to ?
Could you point out the location of the planchet flaw on the observe? I am not sure that I see it >>
I could not see it in the pics. One would think that there would b nice pics in such an auction but there were not. I didn't c this until the auction had closed or I would have asked the seller for more pics and more details.
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
My order just went today to "In stock and reserved" and the cancel box is gone. I am planning to keep it in its OGP but if I were doing FS labelling that would have been a bummer!
The member formerly known as Ciccio / Posts: 1453 / Joined: Apr 2009
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
My order just went today to "In stock and reserved" and the cancel box is gone. I am planning to keep it in its OGP but if I were doing FS labelling that would have been a bummer! >>
I'm still waiting for my order from the mint, but I did it right this time. I got the 2014 Red Book before the 2013 Buffalo Reverse Proof
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money. >>
....also hope you don't get someone else's reject
"What we are never changes, but who we are ... never stops changing."
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money. >>
....also hope you don't get someone else's reject >>
I guess I will know when I see 'em. I could always return them if they were real losers and I still have a graded PCGS from a third party.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
Comments
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now.
<< <i>Received my 5oz. Fort McHenry today from MCM. What a surprise when the mailman knocked on my door. Did not expect it overnight.
If I did not have to sign for it I would think they threw it out the window as the plane flew by.
It made my day. Thanks again John & Andy !!!!!!!
It looked perfect for a Bullion Coin. It is a shame I have to say this, however it was in better condition than some of the
proof coins I have received from the mint and arrived much faster and better packaged. >>
Yeah, Hattrick, leave it to the best in the business, John and MCM, to set the bar higher and customers at ease! Congrats!
Also congrats to all of those that participated in the video drawing and to MCM for interjecting more fun into the guessing game of Moderns....
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now.
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection
<< <i>
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now.
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen?
Coinfame,Kaelasdad,Type2,UNLVino,MICHAELDIXON
Justacommeman,tydye,78saen,123cents,blue62vette,Segoja,Nibanny
The regular population report has been updated. The missing "base" (non-FS) is now shown There have been 2 non-FS 69's graded. Non-ANA FS percentages are : 70=78.3%, 69=21.5%, 68 and lower=0.2%
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now.
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december >>
1. Do Not count on a better price on this coin anytime soon if ever.
2. Congress will drive the nail in the coffin of the stock market soon. Expect a major crash before the end of the year.
Financial advisors:
Duie, Cheatem & Howe
I just received my PR70's from Ian Russel at GreatCollections .com.
Cheap beyond belief - I ordered early - received exactly what I asked for - First Strike, Buffalo label with 100th Anniversary.
I needed them to exactly match my PR70DCAM regular proofs that I also bought from him (...at a rediculous cheap price).
With all of the turmoil surrounding these reverse proofs.... Mint order period, ANA sales, PCGS grading times (they are/were swamped) ... Ian Russel kept me super informed all along, even to email me when the Mint started selling them at the ANA show.
You would die if you found out what I paid - it definitely pays to commit early, and then confidently sit back and let Ian do all the work :-)
Thanks for everything Ian.
<< <i>Just so everyone knows, particularly if you are having problems finding Reverse Proof Buffalos.....at a reasonable price....
I just received my PR70's from Ian Russel at GreatCollections .com.
Cheap beyond belief - I ordered early - received exactly what I asked for - First Strike, Buffalo label with 100th Anniversary.
I needed them to exactly match my PR70DCAM regular proofs that I also bought from him (...at a rediculous cheap price).
With all of the turmoil surrounding these reverse proofs.... Mint order period, ANA sales, PCGS grading times (they are/were swamped) ... Ian Russel kept me super informed all along, even to email me when the Mint started selling them at the ANA show.
You would die if you found out what I paid - it definitely pays to commit early, and then confidently sit back and let Ian do all the work :-)
Thanks for everything Ian. >>
Okay, I'll bite???
1. Price levels for Buffalo Reverse Proof Pr70s has risen (from $1878 to $2200+) based upon dealer websites and eBay sales. (In interest of full disclosure, I benefited from John Maben’s fantastic offer.)
2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation.
4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own.
5. The value of sealed boxes eligible for first strike is interesting. The value of a sealed box would seem to be (price of a PR70 -$100 grading fees) x probability of PR70 with a minimum value of $1,740 (the last US Mint sales price).
6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage.
Any thoughts? Note these views are worth what you paid for it.
<< <i>After reading posts by Hattrick (rising price levels for Buffalo RPs) and Kudbegud (PCGS grading population), I did some searches and came up with these thoughts. I also consulted Eric Jordan’s book “Modern Commemorative Coins”.
1. Price levels for Buffalo Reverse Proof Pr70s has risen (from $1878 to $2200+) based upon dealer websites and eBay sales. (In interest of full disclosure, I benefited from John Maben’s fantastic offer.)
2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation.
4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own.
5. The value of sealed boxes eligible for first strike is interesting. The value of a sealed box would seem to be (price of a PR70 -$100 grading fees) x probability of PR70 with a minimum value of $1,740 (the last US Mint sales price).
6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage.
Any thoughts? Note these views are worth what you paid for it.
our coin club has jumped in on the 2006 gold sets.. 2006 silver sets and the 2008 rev 2007 eagles ...to buy and sell several times..at 1st thought we were prepared to buy over 50 of graded 2013 GOLD reverse proofs....but saw limited upside potenial in the near term..so we passed....
<< <i>our coin club has jumped in on the 2006 gold sets.. 2006 silver sets and the 2008 rev 2007 eagles ...to buy and sell several times..at 1st thought we were prepared to buy over 50 of graded 2013 GOLD reverse proofs....but saw limited upside potenial in the near term..so we passed.... >>
Ah, I remember those same opinions regarding the UHR.
<< <i>2. The current (today’s) population of available Buffalo RPs is less than 30,000. Most are probably at PCGS or ATS for grading. The population is based upon US Mint Blog sales log through 8/14. A friend ordered on 8/14 (before the price increase) and he still shows a 9/27 ship date from the US Mint.
3. The distribution of quality of available RPs is less than the PR70 (78%) and PR69 (22%) as shown in the PCGS population reports. Many collectors may have decided to keep their coins in the original government packaging and many collectors and dealers have self-selected coins and did not submit coins that would not receive a PR70 designation. >>
By the projected ship date on outstanding orders at the mint, everyone should have their Buffalos in hand by 10/15. Within a week (10/22) those already inclined to and enthusiastic enough will have submitted their coins for grading. Being way beyond the First Strike limit will discourage some but not most who fit this category of collector. A month later (11/22) most of those coins will have been slabbed and in customers hands once again. The Sunday (11/24) regular population report update will reflect all these enthusiast grading rush. There after the volume reducing to a trickle of new acquisitions and sealed box submissions. We will then know the approximate number that have been graded by PCGS. Somebody else will have to report the other guys numbers (ANACS, NGC and the rest) to determine the percentage of graded vs raw for the entire mintage. When the mint will publish the audited mintage report is anybodies guess. December? The grade percentages of PCGS graded coins can then be estimated and implied to the mintage as a whole....of course only from those submitted...those held raw or sealed being the question mark, but still implied to follow the reported population percentages.
<< <i>4. The impact of labels has been mind boggling. The PCGS First Strike seems to be the most desired with sub labels (Flag, Bison, Black Diamond, etc.) creating subdivisions. The Chicago ANA label is in a class of its own. >>
Ever since different labels were introduced they became a sub category for completest collectors. And a money maker for the TPG companies.
<< <i>6. Projected value of the PR70 is based upon its uniqueness. If the US Mint does not issue another Buffalo RP, then this is a one year issue and will be sought after for that reason. But look at the 2006 AGE RP and that has been surprising and with a lot smaller mintage. >>
Like stocks, the market follows its own path with its own reasoning and logic, not always rational or understandable. Then the Mint, with its own rationale issues coins for maximum profits, the collector seldom being considered. Lets see in a year or two how this Buffalo holds up.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Prices are now firmly above $ 2,200 for both PCGS & NGC 70's. MCM raised prices $50 to $ 2,249.
ST is out of stock on 70's and GM is out of stock on all but two NGC labels. PCGS ANA's still in the
upper three thousands. Looking good for now.
for those that have not bought yet .. a great opportunity is coming up ... after a gold rally high 1st week Oct.. gold should have a steady decline into end of year
A great looking coin for a collection >>
Does this mean that those who have bought this coin should sell now before the panic sets in when the price of gold as mentioned above declines and drive the price of this coin down even to the extent of selling it for a loss if this truly does happen? >>
No panic .. a rising stock market will suck out money from metals.. under $ 1100 it looks now by december >>
The stock market at this point seems to very ripe for a significant correction.
<< <i>The stock market at this point seems to very ripe for a significant correction. >>
I agree. It is already correcting the early morning flash gains somewhat.
I am quite surprised at the popularity of the coin, even as the mintage approached 50,000.
Hard to imagine it still qualifies for First Strike after all this time but checking dates indicates it does.
Now for the decision as to whether or not open the box.......hummmmmm
First Strike or not?.......
Too many choices!!! I sure would have liked one of those Buffalo Labels though....
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
<< <i>Just took delivery of my Mint product.
Hard to imagine it still qualifies for First Strike after all this time but checking dates indicates it does.
Now for the decision as to whether or not open the box.......hummmmmm
First Strike or not?.......
Too many choices!!! I sure would have liked one of those Buffalo Labels though.... >>
Open the box before you send to PCGS.....enjoy before she is entombed.
PCGS goes by the postmark, no need to keep the box closed, unless you want to send it in after the cutoff date.
edited to add: Rec'd my PR70 from GM today.......that was certainly a timely transaction.
Got in at the $1,889.00 price.
The coin I got from the Mint cost me $1,640 + $95 PCGS fees/S&H + S&H to PCGS $25 = $1,760.
Ended up with a PR69 that is worth somewhere around $1,900.
The PR70 is going for $2,200+....Bottom line, the coin bought from GM was twice the 'profit.'
I can't complain.....as I have two really cool Gold RPGB coins that are really fun to play with.
Now, if they go up in value in the next few years, I won't be complaining!
Based upon comments by forum members, you may only get the FS Flag label, if you submit yourself.
You would have to buy the Buffalo RP with the FS Buffalo label. There may be some on the BST where you might be able
to also sell your sealed box, if that is what you want to do.
I wanted the Buffalo RP with the FS Buffalo label and bought it from a dealer (John Maben).
No mention of OGP.
or do you have to request it?
It arrived in a priority mail box and the OGP as well as the coin were in perfect condition. Paid $ 1889 and
have no complaints this time. Well packaged, excellent condition and timely shipping.
Will keep one for myself and ordered an engraved wood box to put one along with a regular proof as a set.
Will enjoy it for the next twenty something years then it will be a gift to my grandson who was born on labor day weekend.
This will probably fill my safe deposit box. It was a good thing I opted for the large box when I got it 30 years ago as our
bank has not had one available since then. Last time they told me people pass them on in their wills and they have not
had one become available in thirty years. I will have to sell something to make room if I decide to buy anything else and
to get the funds to buy it.
Just received my RP Buffalo in today. With the regular proof buffalo, both coins will make a perfect proof 2013 Buffalo type set. I examined both coins with a 58 mm 1.4 lens and could not find any blemishes, spots, scars, nicks, etc. on either coin. I'm going to keep both coins in the regular OGP, as I'm not particularly interested in putting them in a slab or having a special label on them. For me, these coins are better in their OGP. It will make for a perfect set to pass on to my son, when I check out of this world.
CollectorManText
Since my PCGS membership has lapsed and is needing renewal, i likely won't get it together for submission before the deadline.
So i likely should not crack the box, as tempting as that is..
First strike premiums are likely worth the wait...
I'll look into what the unopened FS eligible boxes are going for.... Might be worth my while....
I'm not fond of the flag label.
Happy, humble, honored and proud recipient of the “You Suck” award 10/22/2014
Kudos to those with their loving approach to celebrating their 2013 newborns with a supreme gift of Buff-Amore.
<< <i>If you submit the coin yourself do you automatically receive the flag label
or do you have to request it? >>
Member submitted Reverse Proof Buffalo coins for first strike designation have only the flag label choice.
<< <i>I do mucho love my sealed FS eligible RP Buff box; although, I appreciate the MCM beauty I can peer at when the urge strikes!
Kudos to those with their loving approach to celebrating their 2013 newborns with a supreme gift of Buff-Amore. >>
Miles,
Thanks for your congrats and kudos and special thanks for your kind words of encouragement.
<< <i>MCM - 5 available PR70's
No mention of OGP. >>
There a lot of these grade reverse proofs available .. no need to chase the current price
Box of 20
<< <i>MCM - 5 available PR70's
No mention of OGP. >>
I believe normally MCM does not include OGP with graded purchases, probably a lot of hassle with their volume. I believe John made an exception on OGP with his special offer to forum members. MCM used to have a subsidary that sold only OGP, don't know if they still do. Maybe John will enlighten us.
The only way to make an economic system truly stable is to permit the free market to take over.
<< <i>
<< <i>MCM - 5 available PR70's
No mention of OGP. >>
I believe normally MCM does not include OGP with graded purchases, probably a lot of hassle with their volume. I believe John made an exception on OGP with his special offer to forum members. MCM used to have a subsidary that sold only OGP, don't know if they still do. Maybe John will enlighten us. >>
Sometimes we include it, sometimes we don't. If it says we include it in the description we do, if it doesn't then we don't. However, we've never said no to anyone that requested it when buying a 70 graded coin as long as we have it to give....
69's are a different story. We frequently lose money on these or make very little and therefore a service charge applies for OGP.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Obverse Planchet Flaw RP Buff $5K
Could you point out the location of the planchet flaw on the observe?
I am not sure that I see it
1) Is this something that can come off by dipping it into acetone or distilled water
2) Keep it as is since its not wisible by the naked eye
3) Send it back and ask for replacement and hope not to get even worse reject
4) Just send it back for refund
Opinions are appreciated
<< <i>What are my options?
1) Is this something that can come off by dipping it into acetone or distilled water
2) Keep it as is since its not wisible by the naked eye
3) Send it back and ask for replacement and hope not to get even worse reject
4) Just send it back for refund
Opinions are appreciated >>
If you can see something on the edge now, I would send it back and purchase one that is already graded.
I would be concerned for an unfavorable development in the future.
I have had too many .9999 Gold (2008-W) Buffalos develop Red Spots, from Mint Employee contamination.
Who knows what "White Residue", would turn in to ?
<< <i>
<< <i>MCM - 5 available PR70's
No mention of OGP. >>
There a lot of these grade reverse proofs available .. no need to chase the current price >>
As of 9/18 and growing in numbers..........3,196 to be exact.
<< <i>Raufus
Could you point out the location of the planchet flaw on the observe?
I am not sure that I see it >>
I could not see it in the pics. One would think that there would b nice pics in such an auction but there were not. I didn't c this until the auction had closed or I would have asked the seller for more pics and more details.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today.
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
My order just went today to "In stock and reserved" and the cancel box is gone.
I am planning to keep it in its OGP but if I were doing FS labelling that would have been a bummer!
<< <i>
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
My order just went today to "In stock and reserved" and the cancel box is gone.
I am planning to keep it in its OGP but if I were doing FS labelling that would have been a bummer! >>
I'm still waiting for my order from the mint, but I did it right this time. I got the 2014 Red Book before the 2013 Buffalo Reverse Proof
The boy is a toughie to photograph and resists long looks and stare-downs!
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>I signed for a box. It says 2 pounds. Should I send it back ? I ordered 2 ounces. >>
send the unopened box to me, and I'll send you a replacement box that only weighs 2 oz
(the OGP weighs quite a bit)
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money.
<< <i>
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money. >>
....also hope you don't get someone else's reject
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Today is the cut-off date for the PCGS First Strike labels on the Reverse Proof Buffalo.
Any shipped after today.......NO FS for you !!!
I cancelled all my orders today. >>
The Mint dragged their feet for me and I did not make the fs deadline. But I think it is somewhat a relief. Now I can open the box and enjoy them without feeling I am burning money. >>
....also hope you don't get someone else's reject >>
I guess I will know when I see 'em. I could always return them if they were real losers and I still have a graded PCGS from a third party.