Based on a few of my orders, I ran some simple math based on # orders per minute during this time period.
4:30PM EST would be ~#38372314
5:00PM EST would be ~#38378103
5:30PM EST would be ~#38383533
(...and no -- none of these are my order #)
Let me know if this jives with others orders --
Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser, Bullsitter, robeck, Nickpatton, jwitten, and many OTHERS
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify. >>
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info.
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify. >>
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
And because three of the cons were sold and shipped earlier as individual coins they are not eligible for First Strike 30 days after their INITIAL release by the mint. Same coins, different packaging.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify. >>
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
And because three of the cons were sold and shipped earlier as individual coins they are not eligible for First Strike 30 days after their INITIAL release by the mint. Same coins, different packaging. >>
That makes sense. How did you find this out or is this just general knowledge? I have searched their website and cannot find a reference to these. Thanks. This is all I could find for anniversary sets, 2006.
First Strike designation for 2006-W 3pc Silver 20th Anniversary sets: To get the 20th Anniversary First Strike designation, the sets must come to PCGS sealed in the original government boxes they were shipped in. The box must be unopened. The shipment date on the shipping label must be October 24th or earlier to also receive First Strike designation. The only coin to qualify for 20th Anniversary if the box has been opened is the Reverse Proof since this coin currently is only offered as part of the 3pc set. The other 2 coins are available in other sets or individually. (This is subject to change if the government decides to offer the Reverse Proof individually at a later date.
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify. >>
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info. >>
Link to PCGS policy Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike.
First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission.
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify. >>
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info. >>
Look under the First Strike policy under the services heading.
From PCGS...
Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike.
Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike. >>
Based on this the first strike 30 day clock starts when the mint starts selling. However, in the past if memory serves me correctly PCGS has actually started the clock with when the first coin ships.
Since there is so much interest in this set and there are a lot of submission questions, PCGS should do as NGC did and publish specific instructions and requirements when submitting this specific set.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
I wonder if any full orders of 5 are "in process". That may be an indication there will not be modifications to the HH limit?
Yes, PCGS should publish some specific rules. Odd that they haven't done so, maybe they are still figuring out what they want to do. I'm honestly a little surprised if they leave FS off three of the coins as they can make bank off of it and the label is almost meaningless anyway.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
Thanks to all for the links, info. It does make sense that the 3 previously released coins would not be FS eligible generally speaking, but if they are sent sealed with the 2 new coins and part of the newly issued set...well, I too would like for them to address this set specifically as well. Do you think maybe they will get the hint
Yes, PCGS should publish some specific rules. Odd that they haven't done so, maybe they are still figuring out what they want to do. I'm honestly a little surprised if they leave FS off three of the coins as they can make bank off of it and the label is almost meaningless anyway. >>
They may consider the "set" coins a different animal so to speak than the regular issues. The 30-day rule would still apply though.
The following is the Mint News Blog's take on Mint order status:
"The Mint uses the word “backorder” in a different way that most people are familiar with.
Most companies are sellers, not manufacturers, so when an item is on “backorder,” that means that they have run out of that item, and need to order more from the manufacturer. That may take days or weeks or even months, so the company is telling the customer that he has to wait until the product comes in.
The Mint is both manufacturer and seller, so when they say “backorder,” they mean that the order is backed up until the coins are minted, assembled, and then shipped to the fulfillment center for mailing.
The Mint uses “hold” to mean that they need time to verify that the order is legitimate (in this case, not more than 5 sets per household) and that the customer’s credit card has sufficient funds. “In process” means that verification has been done, and now all it takes is for the Mint to see if there are enough sets ready for mailing.
“In stock and reserved” means that the coins have been assembled into sets and ready to be shipped to the fulfillment center, and that all verifications have been made. At this point, the Mint has ACCEPTED the order — prior to this, the Mint has only RECEIVED the order. Once the set is labeled for mailing, then you will receive a “Shipped” notice and tracking number (though the actual mailing date may be the next day).
“Suspended” is something new to me. I suppose that is used when a later order is made after the household limit has been reached. I have never seen a “Waiting List” message on the online order receipt or email confirmation, but then, I have never been put on a waiting list.
To sum up, once you see “In process” and/or “In stock and reserved,” you can safely assume that you will get your coins. “Hold” and “Backorder” are used routinely and does not mean that you will not get your coins."
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
For whatever it's worth, my phone order placed within the first hour is now in progress (ship date 11/13) while my friend's order, literally placed within 10 feet of me on his computer within 2 minutes of my order is still on hold.
Has anyone noticed if the phone orders are moving through the pipe any faster than the online orders?
And my HH limit is still 5, which would be shocking if they now retroactively decided to reduce after killing many orders and moving others into in process status. And would the Mint really make a decision like this over the weekend without any formal announcement?
I think any reports of HH reductions have other issues.
From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue).
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Remember, very few people send their coins in sealed in boxes. Most of those submitting Eagles pre-screen their coins and only send in the coins they think will get a 69 or 70. I think the pop reports exaggerate how easy it is to get a 69 or 70 on some of the modern issues.
Not for nothing...but wouldn't calling the Mint at this point "to check on your order," only be inviting trouble? I don't want any additional attention or scrutiny than necessary.
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around."
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Pop reports show mostly 69s and 70s because coins were not in sealed mint packaging and were screened by the submittors before submission. Pop reports on the new ASE set will eventually show a lower percentage of 69s and 70s because most all coins will be submitted sight unseen.
30 days is only an issue for first strike. The only two coins in the ASE set eligible for first strike are the reverse proof and the S mintmark. These are the two "money" coins. The other three coins were previously issued individually and are therefore no longer eligible for first strike even though they are being re-released with the new set. While packaging differs, they are the same coins. For the two money coins only: as long as submitted unsealed before the 30 day expiration or if submitted after the 30 days in a sealed box with a shipping date on the label that meets PCGS 30 day guidelines you can still get first strike on these two coins. There will be submittors who only submit these two coins after opening their sets and screening the coins. Once they have opened the sets they face the 30 day deadline for first strike. This will be a popular grading option for those looking to keep costs down and mazimize profit, especially for those that have many, many sets.
25th set label will only be available for the previously three released coins if the set is submitted in a sealed box. The two money coins will probably always be eligible for a 25th set label because they were only issued in the set. No 30 day deadline for the set label, eligibility good indefinietly as long as box remains sealed.
MS69 ASE sets should still be profitable because most collectors will not or cannot pay the moon money that a full 70 set is expected to bring.
There will also be a good market for graded set coins being sold individually for those that wish to build or fill holes in their set. If I bought one set and it comes back with 2 69s and three 70s I would probably try to either make it a full 70 set with individual aftermarket purchases or make it a 69s set and profit with the 70s I take from it. All kinds of marketing stratigies to consider with this mint offering.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Remember, very few people send their coins in sealed in boxes. Most of those submitting Eagles pre-screen their coins and only send in the coins they think will get a 69 or 70. I think the pop reports exaggerate how easy it is to get a 69 or 70 on some of the modern issues. >>
Yes, thanks, that makes sense. I am considering it, but only if the grading seems to be worth the gamble. At least if boxes must be sealed to get 25th Ann. set designation, it will be an even playing field.
<< <i>Not for nothing...but wouldn't calling the Mint at this point "to check on your order," only be inviting trouble? I don't want any additional attention or scrutiny than necessary.
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around." >>
excellent advice, especially since they have been working harder than usual and would love someone to take it out on. Today's changing of status on orders indicates they're also getting overtime.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Pop reports show mostly 69s and 70s because coins were not in sealed mint packaging and were screened by the submittors before submission. Pop reports on the new ASE set will eventually show a lower percentage of 69s and 70s because most all coins will be submitted sight unseen.
30 days is only an issue for first strike. The only two coins in the ASE set eligible for first strike are the reverse proof and the S mintmark. These are the two "money" coins. The other three coins were previously issued individually and are therefore no longer eligible for first strike even though they are being re-released with the new set. While packaging differs, they are the same coins. For the two money coins only: as long as submitted unsealed before the 30 day expiration or if submitted after the 30 days in a sealed box with a shipping date on the label that meets PCGS 30 day guidelines you can still get first strike on these two coins. There will be submittors who only submit these two coins after opening their sets and screening the coins. Once they have opened the sets they face the 30 day deadline for first strike. This will be a popular grading option for those looking to keep costs down and mazimize profit.
25th set label will only be available for the previously three released coins if the set is submitted in a sealed box. The two money coins will probably always be eligible for a 25th set label because they were only issued in the set. No 30 day deadline for the set label, eligibility good indefinietly as long as box remains sealed.
MS69 ASE sets should still be profitable because most collectors will not or cannot pay the moon money that a full 70 set is expected to bring.
There will also be a good market for graded set coins being sold individually for those that wish to build or fill holes in their set. If I bought one set and it comes back with 2 69s and three 70s I would probably try to either make it a full 70 set with individual aftermarket purchases or make it a 69s set and profit with the 70s I take from it. All kinds of marketing stratigies to consider with this mint offering. >>
coin dealer that our coin club does a lot of business ...picked up 179 sets with a price range of 299.95 to 525.00 that is dealin .... all to be graded
<< <i>coin dealer that our coin club does a lot of business ...picked up 179 sets with a price range of 299.95 to 525.00 that is dealin .... all to be graded >>
He's looking at over $75K in grading fees less any bulk discount. This is a case where I would definitely screen a lot of the money coins before submitting. He could save a lot in grading fees if he were to open 25 sets and only submit good looking reverse proofs and S mintmarks. If submitted unsealed within the 30 day window they are still eligible for First Strike. And because it appears that PCGS will not give both the First Strike and 25th set label to these two coins they will still fit right into a graded full set. There will be a lot of collectors looking for these two coins to replace the 69s in their graded set. This dealer could also use his loose 70 First Strikes to fill holes in the sets he does have graded.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Not for nothing...but wouldn't calling the Mint at this point "to check on your order," only be inviting trouble? I don't want any additional attention or scrutiny than necessary.
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around." >>
Or asking the soup nazi why you didn't get any bread.
Any idea how these will come back from grading? Will they all be in individual holders or one large holder? If they're in individual holders and one gets at least one 70 from each of their sets, they could potentially sell as a complete 70 set, versus individual coins--do I have that logic correct?
Sorry for the newbie question, never graded before.
<< <i>coin dealer that our coin club does a lot of business ...picked up 179 sets with a price range of 299.95 to 525.00 that is dealin .... all to be graded >>
He's looking at over $75K in grading fees less any bulk discount. This is a case where I would definitely screen a lot of the money coins before submitting. He could save a lot in grading fees if he were to open 25 sets and only submit good looking reverse proofs and S mintmarks. If submitted unsealed within the 30 day window they are still eligible for First Strike. And because it appears that PCGS will not give both the First Strike and 25th set label to these two coins they will still fit right into a graded full set. There will be a lot of collectors looking for these two coins to replace the 69s in their graded set. This dealer could also use his loose 70 First Strikes to fill holes in the sets he does have graded. >>
???
why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc??
<< <i>Any idea how these will come back from grading? Will they all be in individual holders or one large holder? If they're in individual holders and one gets at least one 70 from each of their sets, they could potentially sell as a complete 70 set, versus individual coins--do I have that logic correct?
Sorry for the newbie question, never graded before. >>
Don't know that multiple coin holder will even be offered, PCGS has yet to release specific submission guidelines for the set. But your thinking is not that of a newbie, good work.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc?? >>
It was stated in one of the ASE threads that PCGS has said they will not do both designations on these two coins. If you look at all their previous labels where FIRST STRIKE or 20th ANNIVERSARY appears in big letters at the top, it becomes obvious why only one of the designations is available. They would have to and could change their way of presenting the label to offer both designations.
Again, I say PCGS should publish specific guidelines for submitting these sets. Their largest competitor has already done so.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc?? >>
I have not seen any official docs indicating that they wouldn't ... To me, it doesn't make any sense. If true, I've got to go with the 25th Anniv. label and hope PCGS doesn't change their mind down the road like they did with the 5 oz pucks. (PL designation)
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
<< <i>It was stated in one of the ASE threads that PCGS has said they will not do both designations on these two coins. If you look at all their previous labels where FIRST STRIKE or 20th ANNIVERSARY appears in big letters at the top, it becomes obvious why only one of the designations is available. They would have to and could change their way of presenting the label to offer both designations. >>
Not so...all my 20th Anniv. PCGS graded coins (Gold & Silver) have both and it did not create any problem.
"Bongo drive 1984 Lincoln that looks like old coin dug from ground."
Comments
4:30PM EST would be ~#38372314
5:00PM EST would be ~#38378103
5:30PM EST would be ~#38383533
(...and no -- none of these are my order #)
Let me know if this jives with others orders --
<< <i>Question for the early orderers. Do any of you show "In Stock and Reserved" yet? >>
I got 5 phone orders in within 12 minutes of opening. Still have cancel box, and on hold.
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify.
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info.
<< <i>Based on a few of my orders, I ran some simple math based on # orders per minute during this time period.
4:30PM EST would be ~#38372314
5:00PM EST would be ~#38378103
5:30PM EST would be ~#38383533
(...and no -- none of these are my order #)
Let me know if this jives with others orders -- >>
Computer was so slow I don't know when the order went through, but the mint email came at 4:42 pm EDT for Order #383749XX. Hopefully I get it!
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify.
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
And because three of the cons were sold and shipped earlier as individual coins they are not eligible for First Strike 30 days after their INITIAL release by the mint. Same coins, different packaging.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify.
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
And because three of the cons were sold and shipped earlier as individual coins they are not eligible for First Strike 30 days after their INITIAL release by the mint. Same coins, different packaging. >>
That makes sense. How did you find this out or is this just general knowledge? I have searched their website and cannot find a reference to these. Thanks. This is all I could find for anniversary sets, 2006.
First Strike designation for 2006-W 3pc Silver 20th Anniversary sets:
To get the 20th Anniversary First Strike designation, the sets must come to PCGS sealed in the original government boxes they were shipped in.
The box must be unopened.
The shipment date on the shipping label must be October 24th or earlier to also receive First Strike designation.
The only coin to qualify for 20th Anniversary if the box has been opened is the Reverse Proof since this coin currently is only offered as part of the 3pc set. The other 2 coins are available in other sets or individually. (This is subject to change if the government decides to offer the Reverse Proof individually at a later date.
<< <i>my order number 38325xxx is "in process" >>
Congrats!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify.
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info. >>
Link to PCGS policy
Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike.
First Strike designation is an additional $18/coin. This price includes the return shipping cost of any sort of mint packaging included in the submission.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>.....Is PCGS going to release an official statement as to how these will be handled so there's no need for speculation? These should all just say First Strike 25th Anniversary because of the fact they all sold within five hours and were only sold in sets. Seems simple enough to me. I just want PCGS to clarify.
It is not based on when sold but when shipped. If they drag the shipping out then some may not qualify. PCGS doesn't need to make a statement since they define the policy already. >>
May I ask where do find the policy, is it on their website? I have looked and cannot see what qualifies and under what conditions (date, sealed, etc). Appreciate any info. >>
Look under the First Strike policy under the services heading.
From PCGS...
Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike.
<< <i>From PCGS...
Beginning in 2005, PCGS began designating coins packaged and delivered by the U.S. Mint in the 30 day period following the initial sales date of a new product as First Strike®. For instance, new American Silver Eagles typically go on sale each January 1st, thus any coin packaged or delivered and submitted to PCGS for certification between January 1 and January 31 qualifies for the First Strike® designation.
There are two ways PCGS can verify if a coin was shipped out from the mint within the first 30 days. The first is when a coin is shipped to PCGS from the customer with a postmarked date before the cutoff date for that particular coin. In this example, PCGS only needs the coin to be mailed in. No extra mint packaging is needed (i.e. boxes, certificates, etc.).
The second way PCGS can verify that a coin qualifies for First Strike designation is when a customer does not open the sealed package that came from the mint. In this instance, the package must remain completely sealed and unopened. The customer then can send that whole package in to PCGS and the receiving department will go by the postmarked date from the mint. As long as this date is prior to the cutoff date for that particular coin, it qualifies for first strike. >>
Based on this the first strike 30 day clock starts when the mint starts selling. However, in the past if memory serves me correctly PCGS has actually started the clock with when the first coin ships.
Since there is so much interest in this set and there are a lot of submission questions, PCGS should do as NGC did and publish specific instructions and requirements when submitting this specific set.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
if they're processing orders they won't be making changes.
Yes, PCGS should publish some specific rules. Odd that they haven't done so, maybe they are still figuring out what they want to do. I'm honestly a little surprised if they leave FS off three of the coins as they can make bank off of it and the label is almost meaningless anyway.
<< <i>I wonder if any full orders of 5 are "in process". That may be an indication there will not be modifications to the HH limit? >>
Yes, order of 5 in process
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
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<< <i>I wonder if any full orders of 5 are "in process". That may be an indication there will not be modifications to the HH limit? >>
Yes, order of 5 in process >>
Order number?
They may consider the "set" coins a different animal so to speak than the regular issues. The 30-day rule would still apply though.
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<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if any full orders of 5 are "in process". That may be an indication there will not be modifications to the HH limit? >>
Yes, order of 5 in process >>
Order number? >>
38333***
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>Order Number 38324*** Set O' Five in process. >>
Does it say "In Stock and Reserved" I think "in process" means they are checking your credit card out.
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<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I wonder if any full orders of 5 are "in process". That may be an indication there will not be modifications to the HH limit? >>
Yes, order of 5 in process >>
Order number? >>
38333*** >>
mines 38331xxx and still shows hold
<< <i>
<< <i>Order Number 38324*** Set O' Five in process. >>
Does it say "In Stock and Reserved" I think "in process" means they are checking your credit card out. >>
Just 'In Process' with the 'Backorder' status remaining.
"The Mint uses the word “backorder” in a different way that most people are familiar with.
Most companies are sellers, not manufacturers, so when an item is on “backorder,” that means that they have run out of that item, and need to order more from the manufacturer. That may take days or weeks or even months, so the company is telling the customer that he has to wait until the product comes in.
The Mint is both manufacturer and seller, so when they say “backorder,” they mean that the order is backed up until the coins are minted, assembled, and then shipped to the fulfillment center for mailing.
The Mint uses “hold” to mean that they need time to verify that the order is legitimate (in this case, not more than 5 sets per household) and that the customer’s credit card has sufficient funds. “In process” means that verification has been done, and now all it takes is for the Mint to see if there are enough sets ready for mailing.
“In stock and reserved” means that the coins have been assembled into sets and ready to be shipped to the fulfillment center, and that all verifications have been made. At this point, the Mint has ACCEPTED the order — prior to this, the Mint has only RECEIVED the order. Once the set is labeled for mailing, then you will receive a “Shipped” notice and tracking number (though the actual mailing date may be the next day).
“Suspended” is something new to me. I suppose that is used when a later order is made after the household limit has been reached. I have never seen a “Waiting List” message on the online order receipt or email confirmation, but then, I have never been put on a waiting list.
To sum up, once you see “In process” and/or “In stock and reserved,” you can safely assume that you will get your coins. “Hold” and “Backorder” are used routinely and does not mean that you will not get your coins."
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<< <i>
<< <i>Order Number 38324*** Set O' Five in process. >>
Does it say "In Stock and Reserved" I think "in process" means they are checking your credit card out. >>
Just 'In Process' with the 'Backorder' status remaining. >>
Interesting. What that says to me is that they either had very few or none assembled prior to sale or that they may be reviewing the HH limit policy.
Hoard the keys.
Has anyone noticed if the phone orders are moving through the pipe any faster than the online orders?
And my HH limit is still 5, which would be shocking if they now retroactively decided to reduce after killing many orders and moving others into in process status. And would the Mint really make a decision like this over the weekend without any formal announcement?
I think any reports of HH reductions have other issues.
<< <i>Well I guess it holds You guys are lucky... Hope i get two set. Bet will ship on Monday and the clock will start ticking.
I hope you get your remaining sets as well. Sucks what happened.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
Has anyone noticed if the phone orders are moving through the pipe any faster than the online orders?
>>
Mine was a phone order... got through after around 100 tries... maybe that is why my later order number is in process while bretts isn't???
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Remember, very few people send their coins in sealed in boxes. Most of those submitting Eagles pre-screen their coins and only send in the coins they think will get a 69 or 70. I think the pop reports exaggerate how easy it is to get a 69 or 70 on some of the modern issues.
Michael Kittle Rare Coins --- 1908-S Indian Head Cent Grading Set --- No. 1 1909 Mint Set --- Kittlecoins on Facebook --- Long Beach Table 448
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around."
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Pop reports show mostly 69s and 70s because coins were not in sealed mint packaging and were screened by the submittors before submission. Pop reports on the new ASE set will eventually show a lower percentage of 69s and 70s because most all coins will be submitted sight unseen.
30 days is only an issue for first strike. The only two coins in the ASE set eligible for first strike are the reverse proof and the S mintmark. These are the two "money" coins. The other three coins were previously issued individually and are therefore no longer eligible for first strike even though they are being re-released with the new set. While packaging differs, they are the same coins. For the two money coins only: as long as submitted unsealed before the 30 day expiration or if submitted after the 30 days in a sealed box with a shipping date on the label that meets PCGS 30 day guidelines you can still get first strike on these two coins. There will be submittors who only submit these two coins after opening their sets and screening the coins. Once they have opened the sets they face the 30 day deadline for first strike. This will be a popular grading option for those looking to keep costs down and mazimize profit, especially for those that have many, many sets.
25th set label will only be available for the previously three released coins if the set is submitted in a sealed box. The two money coins will probably always be eligible for a 25th set label because they were only issued in the set. No 30 day deadline for the set label, eligibility good indefinietly as long as box remains sealed.
MS69 ASE sets should still be profitable because most collectors will not or cannot pay the moon money that a full 70 set is expected to bring.
There will also be a good market for graded set coins being sold individually for those that wish to build or fill holes in their set. If I bought one set and it comes back with 2 69s and three 70s I would probably try to either make it a full 70 set with individual aftermarket purchases or make it a 69s set and profit with the 70s I take from it. All kinds of marketing stratigies to consider with this mint offering.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Remember, very few people send their coins in sealed in boxes. Most of those submitting Eagles pre-screen their coins and only send in the coins they think will get a 69 or 70. I think the pop reports exaggerate how easy it is to get a 69 or 70 on some of the modern issues. >>
Yes, thanks, that makes sense. I am considering it, but only if the grading seems to be worth the gamble. At least if boxes must be sealed to get 25th Ann. set designation, it will be an even playing field.
<< <i>Not for nothing...but wouldn't calling the Mint at this point "to check on your order," only be inviting trouble? I don't want any additional attention or scrutiny than necessary.
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around." >>
excellent advice, especially since they have been working harder than usual and would love someone to take it out on. Today's changing of status on orders indicates they're also getting overtime.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>
<< <i>From what I can gather on the PCGS site, most of the ASE's (3 of the coins previously released that are in the set) have graded 69 or 70. Are most going to send in all their sets for grading or keep some OGP? My concern in grading is that 69's will not be worth grading over OGP. Might be worth holding back a sealed box for now to see how it settles out rather than jump right in (unless the 30 days is an issue). >>
Pop reports show mostly 69s and 70s because coins were not in sealed mint packaging and were screened by the submittors before submission. Pop reports on the new ASE set will eventually show a lower percentage of 69s and 70s because most all coins will be submitted sight unseen.
30 days is only an issue for first strike. The only two coins in the ASE set eligible for first strike are the reverse proof and the S mintmark. These are the two "money" coins. The other three coins were previously issued individually and are therefore no longer eligible for first strike even though they are being re-released with the new set. While packaging differs, they are the same coins. For the two money coins only: as long as submitted unsealed before the 30 day expiration or if submitted after the 30 days in a sealed box with a shipping date on the label that meets PCGS 30 day guidelines you can still get first strike on these two coins. There will be submittors who only submit these two coins after opening their sets and screening the coins. Once they have opened the sets they face the 30 day deadline for first strike. This will be a popular grading option for those looking to keep costs down and mazimize profit.
25th set label will only be available for the previously three released coins if the set is submitted in a sealed box. The two money coins will probably always be eligible for a 25th set label because they were only issued in the set. No 30 day deadline for the set label, eligibility good indefinietly as long as box remains sealed.
MS69 ASE sets should still be profitable because most collectors will not or cannot pay the moon money that a full 70 set is expected to bring.
There will also be a good market for graded set coins being sold individually for those that wish to build or fill holes in their set. If I bought one set and it comes back with 2 69s and three 70s I would probably try to either make it a full 70 set with individual aftermarket purchases or make it a 69s set and profit with the 70s I take from it. All kinds of marketing stratigies to consider with this mint offering. >>
Also excellent advice - thank you!
<< <i>coin dealer that our coin club does a lot of business ...picked up 179 sets with a price range of 299.95 to 525.00 that is dealin .... all to be graded >>
He's looking at over $75K in grading fees less any bulk discount. This is a case where I would definitely screen a lot of the money coins before submitting. He could save a lot in grading fees if he were to open 25 sets and only submit good looking reverse proofs and S mintmarks. If submitted unsealed within the 30 day window they are still eligible for First Strike. And because it appears that PCGS will not give both the First Strike and 25th set label to these two coins they will still fit right into a graded full set. There will be a lot of collectors looking for these two coins to replace the 69s in their graded set. This dealer could also use his loose 70 First Strikes to fill holes in the sets he does have graded.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>Not for nothing...but wouldn't calling the Mint at this point "to check on your order," only be inviting trouble? I don't want any additional attention or scrutiny than necessary.
To me, that's like asking a cop or building inspector into your house..."Just to take a look around." >>
Or asking the soup nazi why you didn't get any bread.
Sorry for the newbie question, never graded before.
<< <i>
<< <i>coin dealer that our coin club does a lot of business ...picked up 179 sets with a price range of 299.95 to 525.00 that is dealin .... all to be graded >>
He's looking at over $75K in grading fees less any bulk discount. This is a case where I would definitely screen a lot of the money coins before submitting. He could save a lot in grading fees if he were to open 25 sets and only submit good looking reverse proofs and S mintmarks. If submitted unsealed within the 30 day window they are still eligible for First Strike. And because it appears that PCGS will not give both the First Strike and 25th set label to these two coins they will still fit right into a graded full set. There will be a lot of collectors looking for these two coins to replace the 69s in their graded set. This dealer could also use his loose 70 First Strikes to fill holes in the sets he does have graded. >>
???
why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc??
<< <i>Any idea how these will come back from grading? Will they all be in individual holders or one large holder? If they're in individual holders and one gets at least one 70 from each of their sets, they could potentially sell as a complete 70 set, versus individual coins--do I have that logic correct?
Sorry for the newbie question, never graded before. >>
Don't know that multiple coin holder will even be offered, PCGS has yet to release specific submission guidelines for the set.
But your thinking is not that of a newbie, good work.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc?? >>
It was stated in one of the ASE threads that PCGS has said they will not do both designations on these two coins. If you look at all their previous labels where FIRST STRIKE or 20th ANNIVERSARY appears in big letters at the top, it becomes obvious why only one of the designations is available. They would have to and could change their way of presenting the label to offer both designations.
Again, I say PCGS should publish specific guidelines for submitting these sets. Their largest competitor has already done so.
"Interest rates, the price of money, are the most important market. And, perversely, they’re the market that’s most manipulated by the Fed." - Doug Casey
<< <i>why wouldn't they give both FS and 25th ann. on the RP and S=Unc?? >>
I have not seen any official docs indicating that they wouldn't ... To me, it doesn't make any sense. If true, I've got to go with the 25th Anniv. label and hope PCGS doesn't change their mind down the road like they did with the 5 oz pucks. (PL designation)
<< <i>It was stated in one of the ASE threads that PCGS has said they will not do both designations on these two coins. If you look at all their previous labels where FIRST STRIKE or 20th ANNIVERSARY appears in big letters at the top, it becomes obvious why only one of the designations is available. They would have to and could change their way of presenting the label to offer both designations. >>
Not so...all my 20th Anniv. PCGS graded coins (Gold & Silver) have both and it did not create any problem.