I have personally graded a half dozen Brett 9s, including four from my case break, but I have never self subbed a Yount 9. They are always low or worse. I kept my best Brett, which I strongly feel belongs in a 10 holder and I send it in once a year trying. Best answer I have gotten as to why it is not is rear t/b centering (got the post it stuck to the back with the arrows and all when it came back)... really? My Yount is not as strong, but still a solid 9 I am happy with in my set.
Okay just ran into this auction that was on my old watch list....YOWZA! Update: Pop in 9 = 18 >>
Henry,
That's not a mini, though. Still a remarkable price, however!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I know Tim. I have been puttering around trying to get my 1975 regular set to 9. I just cant seem to motivate myself to by buy those cards...they just look too big to me! I am just amazed at some of the strong prices they are getting, especially given their relative pops. Their forum is dead, but they seem to be very active buyers
<< <i>I know Tim. I have been puttering around trying to get my 1975 regular set to 9. I just cant seem to motivate myself to by buy those cards...they just look too big to me! I am just amazed at some of the strong prices they are getting, especially given their relative pops. Their forum is dead, but they seem to be very active buyers >>
Yes, agreed. The difference I find with 75s vs mini 75s is that generally speaking there are fewer Mint 9 cards that command a premium like the minis, but when you do get a really tough regular 75 like Miller #103, the sky's the limit.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I have hit PSA 9s of 6 Marhall and 642 Phillips as 5 and 6 pops at the time and there was lots of interest then too...rack breaks...do love them racks...
Nice Blyleven! I've logged it, there are 4 known 9s that are sweet, including the one up for auction. I believe I may have seen a short years ago but am not sure, no shorts have been logged. I also logged your nice Brett Jim
Yeah, that Bly at auction now is amazing, and the Yount, too for my taste. Just got new scans of my favorites done, still can't get the snow/dust off even with the scanner function setting on. Ah well. The Ryan was pulled by a board member a while back; it's sitting a bit crooked but is amazing in-hand. Going to review it one of these days and take the gamble.
Jim, I did sense that it was something special. The only problem back then was that it seemed I was the only one who knew how special this and many other mini's were. I wasn't really thinking how we all think about it now. It seemed I was only the 2nd serious collector of PSA graded Mini's. The number one at the time only had 85% of the set completed. It was hard to gain a perspective on just what kind of gold mine I had meandered into. I was new to collecting graded material. I'm sure most collectors were sending in all their vintage material during the first several years of PSA's existence. I came along at a time when (late) Modern material was still flying under the radar to some degree. I was simply a collector that had collected these 75 Mini's as a kid and found it facinating that I could still find examples that were like new. Think about it, when I started there were very few cards with pop's over 10 in PSA 9, over 60 cards had zero PSA 9's. I remeber owning the only 3 PSA 9's of #127 Glenn Borgmann. I even sold one of them to a guy named Glenn Borgmann. Figured it could have been "the Glenn Borgmann", who knows? Hundreds of PSA 8's had pop's below 10.... some cards didn't even exist in PSA 8. I submitted the first couple of Claudell Washington's that graded PSA 8. I sold one for $100 and thought that was pretty cool. In my first large submissions to PSA I had several first time niners. I still keep a population report from July, 29 2004. There had been only 17,393 total gradings of 75 Topps Mini's. Only 99 total PSA 10 75 Mini's existed. Only 2,423 PSA 9's and 8,902 PSA 8's.
It's been quite a ride these past 10 years...... now I have a lot of perspective
MM, that is some great history on the mini set...I started putting my set together in 2007, and wish I had pursued it more aggressively back then, though in some way I guess it's better I didn't after all that came to light later on. My PSA 8-10 set is still at about 80% complete and is still about 2/3 cards I've self-submitted to PSA. It's been a long journey but a very enjoyable one!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
+1! Great to remember those days, seem like ages ago but actually just a few years; minis age in dog years apparently. I remember getting back into cards, and particularly minis after my divorce 2006ish. I remember those pop reports and thinking that the cards were ridiculously under-valued. One of my first memories of this forum (the old forum) was you and MattyC arguing back and forth about the 459 Championship, the 301 Roberts card, and chip bidding each other. I was thinking "these cats are serious!" Of course, I walked right into the great "shortie" window and bought all kinds of short cards from two un-named sources I feel that the fact that 1500+ shorts will disappear forever is my personal contribution to the mini collecting universe...I'll continue to find ways to "retire" those abominations. I decided that I would put together 3 sets for my three boys...7 years later, I'm remarried, picked up a 4th son and my beautiful young wife is pregnant with a 5th boy on the way. Card wise, I've basically completed the entire decade from 1970 through 1979 minus 3 cards from 1977, 1978 some 79s and a couple idiot 73 pointed ear variations or whatever the hell they call them. I think in 2025 (50th anniversary of the mini) I'll sell a 9.00, an 8.5, and an 8.00 set. Until then this is and has been a pure joy.
I hear MiniDuff's suspicions and respect his opinion, but I will put my trust in PSA, especially since I raised the issue personally with Joe a while back, and was very pleased with how attentive he was on the matter. I had the cards reholdered when I had a bunch of lower grades reviewed; I raised the sheet cut issue then with these and some 85 Topps PSA 10s I own.
Joe told me personally that they stand by their grades on these cards, and that suffices for me. He said often some will think a perfect card is sheet cut, but when they examined these they exhibited what PSA looks for in a factory cut. So I will go with that.
I have pulled 10s from packs that were dead centered. I have subbed Bretts that were dubbed PSA 9s, and I have no doubt that if a veteran, expert submitter like say Duff saved up all his best Bretts over time and submitted them at once, his best one would possibly get a 10 as happened with the submission that yielded mine. I do believe anyone looking at the two 10s sees they are worthy of the grade.
As to whether sheet-cut cards bother me in general, I'd say I would always prefer to pull a card from a pack. But also I am not one for thinking 'sheet-cut' whenever I see a perfect card, like say the Molitor 10 RC that is up on ebay right now. So I'd take my two examples every time, given the chance, because they are full-sized, dead-centered, and have sharp corners. I'd rather they were in 9 holders though when I bought them
Just to see how subjective grading is, I am hard pressed to tell a difference between Duff's two 9s and the 10s. The only thing I'm thinking is there may be a slight, almost imperceptible tilt to his Brett? But if either of those two cards of his were in 10 holders they would not look at all out of place. The edges and corners of his Brett look as good as those on the 10 I scanned.
Thanks for sharing MM. That was exactly what I was wondering. I started in 2006 as well, but didn't realize there was a forum to chat for several years, so I missed out on a LOT. I found the forum right after I had graded a 459 (the 3rd one) and an alou in PSA 9 and Matty had bought them in a nanosecond when I listed them. A week later I was reading the thread thinking, wowsa.
Later on as we were down to the last few cards, I knew I had the first Etch 9 as soon as I ripped that rack pack, It was a thrill, but it took a couple tries to get psa to see it that way. Hitting the first 9 on the last card (Tommy D) was cool, but very anticlimactic. I had a beautiful 8 from my case break I was sure would be the first 9. I subbed it and have reviewed it several times with no luck. Have been tempted to actually crack it. Then the card that finally does hit a 9 was a card that didn't hold a candle to it, I was hoping for an 8 on it. Not complaining, just sharing the emotional aspect of it.
By the way, since the thread is long poofed so I cant go back and look (I thought we were supposed to get it back?), but whoever had the 459 side of that argument was clearly right. That card is still a beast, where Roberts has turned out to be a not quite so difficult 9, ala Bahnsen.
I don't think there is ever any way to know and honestly, I am not on the OMG it is sheet cut its no good bandwagon at all. I honestly think a huge portion of full sized key minis are sheet cut to be honest and I own a lot of key cards. If I had fourteen sheets, you can bet your booty that I would take the time to find the equipment or vendor that could duplicate the cut made in 1975 and I do not fault PSA at all if that is what happened and they graded them in good faith. They would have to be psychic to know otherwise. There have been plenty of cases since where the board detectives have seen the buyer of a particular sheet offering 9s and 10s that happen to appear on the same sheet for all kinds of 70s.
The best they can do is review the cut and size and use their judgment. I'd own either of Matty's cards in a heartbeat with no qualms. My real point in digging was to illustrate just how rare and difficult it is to pull and grade your own Yount (and brett as well).
Jim, This is what is so crazy about Mini collecting! I would agree with you that the 301 is easier than the 459....BUT....tale of the tape: 301 Roberts = 42 8s, 8 9s (with two confirmed shorts), and 2 10s. 459 Championship = 63 8s, and 9 9s (one confirmed short). The difference is that someone hit a run of Roberts and dumped them all on the market in a relatively short time thus dropping the price quickly while the 459 has only come up for auction a couple times. I cant figure it out. My one theory is that someone was cracking a 459 9 several times trying to get the first 10 and didn't send in the flips (a pet peeve) so the pop is inflated for 9s.
I agree with Jim 100% re: the sheet cut issue. Beyond trusting the pros who look exactly for the right cut, it ultimately becomes about the card being worthy of the assigned grade. And in the case of the 1975 Topps mini, being full-sized is something one should insist upon. A full-sized, untitled, dead-centered mini with razor corners and edges is to me a thing of rare beauty. I'd rather buy them as 9s and review them to 10s if possible, though!
I wonder how many crack-resubs are also inflating pop data. I know I cracked a resubbed a Rose several times. Same could be for the 459 as Henry states.
Jim also subbed a MONSTER 460 that landed a 9. Was 10-worthy in my eyes.
I agree with both of you. I don't think we can ever determine one sheet cut from another, but we know what the correct size is which disallows major knife-work. I'll take MattyC's 10s in a heartbeat.
I have been tempted so so many times! It was a major decision to sell, but my OCD-ish impulse to keep upgrading just could not be satisfied-- since the cards just don't exist! That's how tough these cards are. I truly felt that because of guys like Krausse and Claudell and others, my dream of an all-9 set with stars in 10 was truly unachievable. I have to think the minis have the lowest HOFers in 10 of the 70s? Even including 71 black beauties?
Thankfully Jim sold me a solid raw set that I honestly page through once a week when mellowing out from the usual job related BS stress. Every time I get the itch to rebuild his set calms me down.
Also I really wanted to try and own some of the older vintage classic singles I always lusted after as a kid, and selling the set enabled me to chase those cards while still keeping my favorite minis. If I devoted new funds into those singles and kept the set my wife may have had a coronary. Or at least decided to make my life miserable!
<< <i>I have been tempted so so many times! It was a major decision to sell, but my OCD-ish impulse to keep upgrading just could not be satisfied-- since the cards just don't exist! That's how tough these cards are. I truly felt that because of guys like Krausse and Claudell and others, my dream of an all-9 set with stars in 10 was truly unachievable. I have to think the minis have the lowest HOFers in 10 of the 70s? Even including 71 black beauties?
Thankfully Jim sold me a solid raw set that I honestly page through once a week when mellowing out from the usual job related BS stress. Every time I get the itch to rebuild his set calms me down.
Also I really wanted to try and own some of the older vintage classic singles I always lusted after as a kid, and selling the set enabled me to chase those cards while still keeping my favorite minis. If I devoted new funds into those singles and kept the set my wife may have had a coronary. Or at least decided to make my life miserable! >>
I am trying to decide what will happen first, Jim cracks his Mini wax-cases and cellos or you jump back in...actually, they might happen together!
Henry, thanks for weighing in re: the 10s. Much appreciated to have the endorsement of mini veterans like you and Jim.
And you are right-- one event would likely trigger the other! In fact I am sure of it. Not only because the cards he grades are always top notch but because when Jim has something you need for a set dealing with him directly is one of the best hobby experiences a guy can have. He would have quite the following if he gave up the executive life and did it full time!
I'd like to add that if I kept my set and went after the other cards and my wife decided to make my life a living hell, she'd have much more success in that endeavor than I ever would finding another PSA 9 Claudell Washington.
Speaking of PSA 9 Claudell Washingtons, I just picked up a PSA 9 1975 mini cello with a beautifully centered CW on top from the Conlon collection. Almost nice enough to bust open..almost, lol!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Tim, sounds like one sweet pack. Rip and sub that bad boy! You already have enough amazing packs.
The Claudell in 9 is so ridiculously insane that if it had even a slight chance, I'd probably cave and bust it. A 9 Claudell is a watershed card to have. Value, jeez, I'd say a grand opening bid is obvious. I have admitted to myself at times that if a Claudell 9 ever surfaced, it would probably make me build a new set.
Edit: Tim I hope you still have that 74 Schmidt cello. At least I think that one was yours. Haven't seen a scan of it in a while but remember it. That is one of my favorite packs of all time. One of my favorite cards, too.
<< <i>Tim, sounds like one sweet pack. Rip and sub that bad boy! You already have enough amazing packs.
The Claudell in 9 is so ridiculously insane that if it had even a slight chance, I'd probably cave and bust it. A 9 Claudell is a watershed card to have. Value, jeez, I'd say a grand opening bid is obvious. I have admitted to myself at times that if a Claudell 9 ever surfaced, it would probably make me build a new set.
Edit: Tim I hope you still have that 74 Schmidt cello. At least I think that one was yours. Haven't seen a scan of it in a while but remember it. That is one of my favorite packs of all time. One of my favorite cards, too. >>
Matty, yes, I do still have the PSA 9 74 Schmidt cello--that one has been in my collection for many years, now. The CW on top of the mini cello is full sized too but it probably does have corner touches due to the tight wrap Topps used during that time. I will post a scan of the pack when I get home tonight.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Man, that's what happens when I type at 2am and post at 8 am, I miss a lot of small details...
I meant to compare the 460 and the 301, which was the debate back when. 460 remains a beast and the card I hit a 9 on was a gorgeous SGC crackout.
On the 301, I am definitely in part to blame and on the 459, look no further than Grote and I. I had I think 3 Roberts, they were also really nice on my case break, at least one of which could have landed in a 10. On the 459, I hit three 9s over two subs and Grote hit 3 on one sub, so that is 6 of the 9 right there. So for the rest of time there have been 3. It always has snow when it is nice. I did similar with the 463, which I think I have now hit 4 9s on and was a 4 pop forever.
The funny thing is that aside from my case break and the previous year 6 box break, basically all of my low pop hits came from raw set buys. You don't see this so much anymore with the registry so prevalent, but it used to be so common to buy a set where the stars had obviously been swapped out, but no one cared about an alou, garber and so on. It was like a treasure hunt.
Thanks a ton for the kind words Matty. I waffle at times. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a mad urge to case crack, but thankfully the value of unopened right now so eclipses what might be had cracking, that I haven't come close to breaking...yet. On cellos, I'll probably just keep my box sealed and graded. I don't think I have pulled 3 9s ever out of cello packs with that insanely tight wrapping. I can't imagine a front card coming out undamaged.
The funny thing is that at times I seriously consider following in your footsteps. I'm just not willing to chase common 10s and I can't remember the last time I found a solid 9 I needed that Henry didn't own me on. It is not something I plan on doing any time soon as I absolutely love this set and don't "need" to do anything with it, but I would probably consider a serious offer at the same time if it came along.
<< <i>On cellos, I'll probably just keep my box sealed and graded. >>
Duff,
That box was a nice pickup. If you ever think of selling the low grade psa 6 cello mini pack with the bench leader card on top keep me in mind. I like that pack and even though it was not high grade thought it was nice.
Thanks for the reply. Good to hear you have the endorsement of Mintmoondog and duff on the mini 10's.
aconte >>
But on a related note Aconte...my only concern is exactly how many potential mini sheets are out in circulation? I remember on the memorabilia thread about 2 years ago some guy named gaspipe declared he had a full set from sheets - about a year later the huge psa 10 sale from "pristine" popped up on ebay with about 40 sequentially numbered (reg num) cards. I don't think it can be a simple coincidence that incredible red/blues are popping up suddenly that are placed along-side each other on sheets. I've never received any answer that gives me confidence as to how many are out there. The best answer was given by Jim who said simply "you know, if someone has it, there is no reason now to not cut them for two reasons (1) they probably paid dearly for them if picked up recently and (2) it is highly improbable that they would hold onto them for all these years having been astute enough to grab them early on. I add one more (3) you might find a stash of pristine minis in an attic, but you are not going to find a stash of pristine mini sheets in an attic. They just did not distribute them like hostess boxes therefore only savvy or expert collectors probably picked some up through personal channels...but even with that logic, every once in a while I worry that there is a stack of 100 sheets laying around somewhere waiting to be cut
Here's the CW mini cello I mentioned earlier...probably as close as I'll come to owning a PSA 9 CW unless I pull it from a wax pack, LOL...
Edit to add: As a bonus, Catfish on back. This pack is from one of the Conlon cases that was auctioned off by REA..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Anyone see this full mini sheet with Brett and Yount in the latest Huggins & Scott Auction. Hopefully, it will be acquired by a true sheet collector...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Agreed Tim, I guess that was a plain answer to my supposition that there aren't many mini sheets out there...we'll at least there is that ONE - what do you think it will go for?
<< <i>Anyone see this full mini sheet with Brett and Yount in the latest Huggins & Scott Auction. Hopefully, it will be acquired by a true sheet collector...
If not, it could give someone here who collects high grade minis for their registry set or as investment cards a chance to add some possible 9's or 10's to their portfolio eventually. So all would not be lost!
Watching that one for fun myself; this is a great auction for the set and that card in particular. The man did win a batting title in three different decades, batted .390, had power, won it all, and was free of scandal (unless we count crapping his pants, which I find hysterically awesome). Brett and Schmidt RC's are atop the list of best cards 1970 and on, for sure.
It would be great if it were not a blip. We'll have to see if an increase holds. Objectively, the card should be worth more than the 500~ it has sold for, for years.
I always thought Brett's RC should be on par price-wise with Schmidt's. They were both amazing players-- yes the Schmidt RC is two years older but one could easily argue the Brett headlines a more collected and aesthetically superior set. Also the Brett is a solo picture which I'd think is the most desirable, as opposed to the multi face cards. Either way Brett mini 9s and 10s of course have not been offered much; I hope this sale sets a higher bar for the card from here on out.
<< <i>It would be great if it were not a blip. We'll have to see if an increase holds. Objectively, the card should be worth more than the 500~ it has sold for, for years. >>
We will see if my theory holds. I suspect you'll see one of the dozen horribly cut Bretts pop up suddenly for sale, get 1/2 of what this got and the VCP will drop down accordingly. I am not worred for this card. MATTYC has it perfectly pegged! I was wondering why Brett wasn't on par with Schmidt - both 3rd basemen, one the greatest in the NL and the other AL. The difference, of course, is that Schmidt is a HR hitter and "chicks dig the long ball" But 500.00 for a PSA 9 Brett has been a bargain (remember me stating this in the old thread?)
<< <i>I always thought Brett's RC should be on par price-wise with Schmidt's. They were both amazing players-- yes the Schmidt RC is two years older but one could easily argue the Brett headlines a more collected and aesthetically superior set. Also the Brett is a solo picture which I'd think is the most desirable, as opposed to the multi face cards. Either way Brett mini 9s and 10s of course have not been offered much; I hope this sale sets a higher bar for the card from here on out. >>
Looking at the bids two things come to mind: 1. Unfortunately, the high bidder looked like he has been "chipped up"...I have seen that on so many of my bids it was laughable - before I smartened up and went snipe 2. However, it looks like there are at least 5 different people willing to pay a minimum 700.00 for that card - so the value should be north of that amount. I suspect that it is around 1000.00 if the Schmidt is settling somewhere around 1500.00. Even there, I think the card has room to go up if you compare it to the prices that low pop 9s are generating. But who knows? The Fidrych rookie in 10 basically tripled in price (around 1200, to near 3000) on one auction and then sold for the new floor twice after. I am sure that demand is increasing for the pop 4 card not decreasing and the lag between the next auction will only put pressure upwards. As Jim has pointed out several times, it is important to look at the timing of the previous sale as well as the amount...a nice Brett 9 hardly comes up anymore, when I first starting collecting minis you could find 2-3 nice Bretts in BIN at any given time. But you guys have heard me parroting my believe that high quality 9s for minis are underpriced for reasons that I have documented. BTW I have been thinking of building a 60s run since I am basically complete with the 70s. I am floored at the pops in 8 condition! The minis are WELL below the 60s and even if it keeps going up, it will only catch, not surpass, most of the 1960s decade. Amazing.
Unfortunately, it's often difficult to ascertain true market value for a particular card in an consignment auction setting for obvious reasons.
That Brett is a really sharp card, but its true value lies between $500 and $1,200, probably closer to $500 than $1,200, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Comments
My Yount is not as strong, but still a solid 9 I am happy with in my set.
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Okay just ran into this auction that was on my old watch list....YOWZA!
Update: Pop in 9 = 18
<< <i>1975topps103millerpsa9
Okay just ran into this auction that was on my old watch list....YOWZA!
Update: Pop in 9 = 18 >>
Henry,
That's not a mini, though. Still a remarkable price, however!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I am just amazed at some of the strong prices they are getting, especially given their relative pops. Their forum is dead, but they seem to be very active buyers
<< <i>I know Tim. I have been puttering around trying to get my 1975 regular set to 9. I just cant seem to motivate myself to by buy those cards...they just look too big to me!
I am just amazed at some of the strong prices they are getting, especially given their relative pops. Their forum is dead, but they seem to be very active buyers >>
Yes, agreed. The difference I find with 75s vs mini 75s is that generally speaking there are fewer Mint 9 cards that command a premium like the minis, but when you do get a really tough regular 75 like Miller #103, the sky's the limit.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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It's been quite a ride these past 10 years...... now I have a lot of perspective
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I remember getting back into cards, and particularly minis after my divorce 2006ish. I remember those pop reports and thinking that the cards were ridiculously under-valued. One of my first memories of this forum (the old forum) was you and MattyC arguing back and forth about the 459 Championship, the 301 Roberts card, and chip bidding each other. I was thinking "these cats are serious!"
Of course, I walked right into the great "shortie" window and bought all kinds of short cards from two un-named sources
I decided that I would put together 3 sets for my three boys...7 years later, I'm remarried, picked up a 4th son and my beautiful young wife is pregnant with a 5th boy on the way. Card wise, I've basically completed the entire decade from 1970 through 1979 minus 3 cards from 1977, 1978 some 79s and a couple idiot 73 pointed ear variations or whatever the hell they call them.
I think in 2025 (50th anniversary of the mini) I'll sell a 9.00, an 8.5, and an 8.00 set. Until then this is and has been a pure joy.
You might have missed this question from me on the last page. So I will ask again and include the Yount too.
Would it bother you if you found out your 75 Mini Brett and Yount was sheet cut or suspected as such?
aconte
Yes, I did miss it, sorry.
I hear MiniDuff's suspicions and respect his opinion, but I will put my trust in PSA, especially since I raised the issue personally with Joe a while back, and was very pleased with how attentive he was on the matter. I had the cards reholdered when I had a bunch of lower grades reviewed; I raised the sheet cut issue then with these and some 85 Topps PSA 10s I own.
Joe told me personally that they stand by their grades on these cards, and that suffices for me. He said often some will think a perfect card is sheet cut, but when they examined these they exhibited what PSA looks for in a factory cut. So I will go with that.
I have pulled 10s from packs that were dead centered. I have subbed Bretts that were dubbed PSA 9s, and I have no doubt that if a veteran, expert submitter like say Duff saved up all his best Bretts over time and submitted them at once, his best one would possibly get a 10 as happened with the submission that yielded mine. I do believe anyone looking at the two 10s sees they are worthy of the grade.
As to whether sheet-cut cards bother me in general, I'd say I would always prefer to pull a card from a pack. But also I am not one for thinking 'sheet-cut' whenever I see a perfect card, like say the Molitor 10 RC that is up on ebay right now. So I'd take my two examples every time, given the chance, because they are full-sized, dead-centered, and have sharp corners. I'd rather they were in 9 holders though when I bought them
Best,
Matt
Later on as we were down to the last few cards, I knew I had the first Etch 9 as soon as I ripped that rack pack, It was a thrill, but it took a couple tries to get psa to see it that way. Hitting the first 9 on the last card (Tommy D) was cool, but very anticlimactic. I had a beautiful 8 from my case break I was sure would be the first 9. I subbed it and have reviewed it several times with no luck. Have been tempted to actually crack it. Then the card that finally does hit a 9 was a card that didn't hold a candle to it, I was hoping for an 8 on it. Not complaining, just sharing the emotional aspect of it.
By the way, since the thread is long poofed so I cant go back and look (I thought we were supposed to get it back?), but whoever had the 459 side of that argument was clearly right. That card is still a beast, where Roberts has turned out to be a not quite so difficult 9, ala Bahnsen.
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If I had fourteen sheets, you can bet your booty that I would take the time to find the equipment or vendor that could duplicate the cut made in 1975 and I do not fault PSA at all if that is what happened and they graded them in good faith. They would have to be psychic to know otherwise. There have been plenty of cases since where the board detectives have seen the buyer of a particular sheet offering 9s and 10s that happen to appear on the same sheet for all kinds of 70s.
The best they can do is review the cut and size and use their judgment. I'd own either of Matty's cards in a heartbeat with no qualms. My real point in digging was to illustrate just how rare and difficult it is to pull and grade your own Yount (and brett as well).
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Jim definitely has graded the most epic minis. There was also a ridiculous Garber and Hegan I remember, among many others.
This is what is so crazy about Mini collecting! I would agree with you that the 301 is easier than the 459....BUT....tale of the tape: 301 Roberts = 42 8s, 8 9s (with two confirmed shorts), and 2 10s. 459 Championship = 63 8s, and 9 9s (one confirmed short). The difference is that someone hit a run of Roberts and dumped them all on the market in a relatively short time thus dropping the price quickly while the 459 has only come up for auction a couple times. I cant figure it out. My one theory is that someone was cracking a 459 9 several times trying to get the first 10 and didn't send in the flips (a pet peeve) so the pop is inflated for 9s.
Jim also subbed a MONSTER 460 that landed a 9. Was 10-worthy in my eyes.
Thankfully Jim sold me a solid raw set that I honestly page through once a week when mellowing out from the usual job related BS stress. Every time I get the itch to rebuild his set calms me down.
Also I really wanted to try and own some of the older vintage classic singles I always lusted after as a kid, and selling the set enabled me to chase those cards while still keeping my favorite minis. If I devoted new funds into those singles and kept the set my wife may have had a coronary. Or at least decided to make my life miserable!
<< <i>I have been tempted so so many times! It was a major decision to sell, but my OCD-ish impulse to keep upgrading just could not be satisfied-- since the cards just don't exist! That's how tough these cards are. I truly felt that because of guys like Krausse and Claudell and others, my dream of an all-9 set with stars in 10 was truly unachievable. I have to think the minis have the lowest HOFers in 10 of the 70s? Even including 71 black beauties?
Thankfully Jim sold me a solid raw set that I honestly page through once a week when mellowing out from the usual job related BS stress. Every time I get the itch to rebuild his set calms me down.
Also I really wanted to try and own some of the older vintage classic singles I always lusted after as a kid, and selling the set enabled me to chase those cards while still keeping my favorite minis. If I devoted new funds into those singles and kept the set my wife may have had a coronary. Or at least decided to make my life miserable! >>
I am trying to decide what will happen first, Jim cracks his Mini wax-cases and cellos or you jump back in...actually, they might happen together!
And you are right-- one event would likely trigger the other! In fact I am sure of it. Not only because the cards he grades are always top notch but because when Jim has something you need for a set dealing with him directly is one of the best hobby experiences a guy can have. He would have quite the following if he gave up the executive life and did it full time!
I'd like to add that if I kept my set and went after the other cards and my wife decided to make my life a living hell, she'd have much more success in that endeavor than I ever would finding another PSA 9 Claudell Washington.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
The Claudell in 9 is so ridiculously insane that if it had even a slight chance, I'd probably cave and bust it. A 9 Claudell is a watershed card to have. Value, jeez, I'd say a grand opening bid is obvious. I have admitted to myself at times that if a Claudell 9 ever surfaced, it would probably make me build a new set.
Edit: Tim I hope you still have that 74 Schmidt cello. At least I think that one was yours. Haven't seen a scan of it in a while but remember it. That is one of my favorite packs of all time. One of my favorite cards, too.
<< <i>Tim, sounds like one sweet pack. Rip and sub that bad boy! You already have enough amazing packs.
The Claudell in 9 is so ridiculously insane that if it had even a slight chance, I'd probably cave and bust it. A 9 Claudell is a watershed card to have. Value, jeez, I'd say a grand opening bid is obvious. I have admitted to myself at times that if a Claudell 9 ever surfaced, it would probably make me build a new set.
Edit: Tim I hope you still have that 74 Schmidt cello. At least I think that one was yours. Haven't seen a scan of it in a while but remember it. That is one of my favorite packs of all time. One of my favorite cards, too. >>
Matty, yes, I do still have the PSA 9 74 Schmidt cello--that one has been in my collection for many years, now. The CW on top of the mini cello is full sized too but it probably does have corner touches due to the tight wrap Topps used during that time. I will post a scan of the pack when I get home tonight.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I meant to compare the 460 and the 301, which was the debate back when. 460 remains a beast and the card I hit a 9 on was a gorgeous SGC crackout.
On the 301, I am definitely in part to blame and on the 459, look no further than Grote and I. I had I think 3 Roberts, they were also really nice on my case break, at least one of which could have landed in a 10. On the 459, I hit three 9s over two subs and Grote hit 3 on one sub, so that is 6 of the 9 right there. So for the rest of time there have been 3. It always has snow when it is nice. I did similar with the 463, which I think I have now hit 4 9s on and was a 4 pop forever.
The funny thing is that aside from my case break and the previous year 6 box break, basically all of my low pop hits came from raw set buys. You don't see this so much anymore with the registry so prevalent, but it used to be so common to buy a set where the stars had obviously been swapped out, but no one cared about an alou, garber and so on. It was like a treasure hunt.
Thanks a ton for the kind words Matty. I waffle at times. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have a mad urge to case crack, but thankfully the value of unopened right now so eclipses what might be had cracking, that I haven't come close to breaking...yet. On cellos, I'll probably just keep my box sealed and graded. I don't think I have pulled 3 9s ever out of cello packs with that insanely tight wrapping. I can't imagine a front card coming out undamaged.
The funny thing is that at times I seriously consider following in your footsteps. I'm just not willing to chase common 10s and I can't remember the last time I found a solid 9 I needed that Henry didn't own me on. It is not something I plan on doing any time soon as I absolutely love this set and don't "need" to do anything with it, but I would probably consider a serious offer at the same time if it came along.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
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Thanks for the reply. Good to hear you have the endorsement of Mintmoondog and duff on the mini 10's.
aconte
<< <i>On cellos, I'll probably just keep my box sealed and graded. >>
Duff,
That box was a nice pickup. If you ever think of selling the low grade psa 6 cello mini pack with the bench leader card on top keep me in mind. I like that pack and even though it was not high grade
thought it was nice.
aconte
<< <i>Matt,
Thanks for the reply. Good to hear you have the endorsement of Mintmoondog and duff on the mini 10's.
aconte >>
But on a related note Aconte...my only concern is exactly how many potential mini sheets are out in circulation? I remember on the memorabilia thread about 2 years ago some guy named gaspipe declared he had a full set from sheets - about a year later the huge psa 10 sale from "pristine" popped up on ebay with about 40 sequentially numbered (reg num) cards. I don't think it can be a simple coincidence that incredible red/blues are popping up suddenly that are placed along-side each other on sheets. I've never received any answer that gives me confidence as to how many are out there. The best answer was given by Jim who said simply "you know, if someone has it, there is no reason now to not cut them for two reasons (1) they probably paid dearly for them if picked up recently and (2) it is highly improbable that they would hold onto them for all these years having been astute enough to grab them early on. I add one more (3) you might find a stash of pristine minis in an attic, but you are not going to find a stash of pristine mini sheets in an attic. They just did not distribute them like hostess boxes therefore only savvy or expert collectors probably picked some up through personal channels...but even with that logic, every once in a while I worry that there is a stack of 100 sheets laying around somewhere waiting to be cut
Edit to add: As a bonus, Catfish on back. This pack is from one of the Conlon cases that was auctioned off by REA..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
aconte
WOW! I am out of the bidding...
1975 Mini Sheet
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>Anyone see this full mini sheet with Brett and Yount in the latest Huggins & Scott Auction. Hopefully, it will be acquired by a true sheet collector...
1975 Mini Sheet >>
If not, it could give someone here who collects high grade minis for their registry set or as investment cards a chance to add some possible 9's or 10's to their portfolio eventually. So all would not be lost!
aconte
5 days still to go...my guess is that we are gonna see this card north of 1000.00 if not now, then very soon.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
<< <i>It would be great if it were not a blip. We'll have to see if an increase holds. Objectively, the card should be worth more than the 500~ it has sold for, for years. >>
We will see if my theory holds. I suspect you'll see one of the dozen horribly cut Bretts pop up suddenly for sale, get 1/2 of what this got and the VCP will drop down accordingly. I am not worred for this card. MATTYC has it perfectly pegged! I was wondering why Brett wasn't on par with Schmidt - both 3rd basemen, one the greatest in the NL and the other AL. The difference, of course, is that Schmidt is a HR hitter and "chicks dig the long ball" But 500.00 for a PSA 9 Brett has been a bargain (remember me stating this in the old thread?)
<< <i>I always thought Brett's RC should be on par price-wise with Schmidt's. They were both amazing players-- yes the Schmidt RC is two years older but one could easily argue the Brett headlines a more collected and aesthetically superior set. Also the Brett is a solo picture which I'd think is the most desirable, as opposed to the multi face cards. Either way Brett mini 9s and 10s of course have not been offered much; I hope this sale sets a higher bar for the card from here on out. >>
Looking at the bids two things come to mind:
1. Unfortunately, the high bidder looked like he has been "chipped up"...I have seen that on so many of my bids it was laughable - before I smartened up and went snipe
2. However, it looks like there are at least 5 different people willing to pay a minimum 700.00 for that card - so the value should be north of that amount. I suspect that it is around 1000.00 if the Schmidt is settling somewhere around 1500.00. Even there, I think the card has room to go up if you compare it to the prices that low pop 9s are generating. But who knows? The Fidrych rookie in 10 basically tripled in price (around 1200, to near 3000) on one auction and then sold for the new floor twice after. I am sure that demand is increasing for the pop 4 card not decreasing and the lag between the next auction will only put pressure upwards. As Jim has pointed out several times, it is important to look at the timing of the previous sale as well as the amount...a nice Brett 9 hardly comes up anymore, when I first starting collecting minis you could find 2-3 nice Bretts in BIN at any given time.
But you guys have heard me parroting my believe that high quality 9s for minis are underpriced for reasons that I have documented.
BTW I have been thinking of building a 60s run since I am basically complete with the 70s. I am floored at the pops in 8 condition! The minis are WELL below the 60s and even if it keeps going up, it will only catch, not surpass, most of the 1960s decade. Amazing.
That Brett is a really sharp card, but its true value lies between $500 and $1,200, probably closer to $500 than $1,200, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.