Congratulations and thank you to Henry... However, H&S screwed up royally. The sheet was in fact NOT a mini sheet and was only corrected just before the auction end. Catalog and internet were wrong until yesterday. I hope you saw that before the end Henry.
That said, a regular 75 sheet is probably worth more than a mini. Both Brett and Yount command premiums over minis in 10.
I won the 74 SGC lot and got stuck with the oddball hof lot with the discs and panels when my qualifying bid stood up. I'll do fine on it, but woops... :-P
Henry, your intention was quite noble, and appreciated! I would not pay either if they changed the description that late in the game. The lot should have been pulled when they discovered the error.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
REA opened today. Seems quite light this year compared to some of the more recent sales they have had. I placed opening bids on probably 60 lots, but can't think of 2 or 3 that I'm dying for. Interesting notes are some unopened boxes, most of which are bbce shrink wrapped. One mini cello box, one mini wax box, bout it on minis.
I didn't see those PSA 9's you mentioned; however, there is a guy selling regular issue PSA 9's of Goodson and Hermann. Perhaps you inadvertently forgot "mini" in your search description and stumbled on these? I've done that before, and hit the BIN thinking I was getting a great deal on a mini only to find out later that it was a regular issue.
Judging by the font on the flip, that Robinson card was graded a while back (early to mid-2000s). I did a quick measure and found that B/T centering is 32/68, which falls within the parameters of an 8, albeit barely so.
I didn't see those PSA 9's you mentioned; however, there is a guy selling regular issue PSA 9's of Goodson and Hermann. Perhaps you inadvertently forgot "mini" in your search description and stumbled on these? I've done that before, and hit the BIN thinking I was getting a great deal on a mini only to find out later that it was a regular issue.
Judging by the font on the flip, that Robinson card was graded a while back (early to mid-2000s). I did a quick measure and found that B/T centering is 32/68, which falls within the parameters of an 8, albeit barely so. >>
Thanks Indy! Yah that is exactly what happened...I was looking at reg 75s to update my set then came back in the evening, the costs of getting old I have to fix my personal registry now. In regards to your measurement. I dunno, I am still not buying that if you double the bottom border it will equal the top (implied in the 32-68). I will say this, I don't remember seeing so many low centered 8s 4-5 years ago. In fact, I remember Jim saying specifically that PSA was tougher on T/B than they were R/L.
That Brooks was graded a long time ago--before they went to the half point grading system. I have been self-subbing minis on a fairly regular basis and have personally found that PSA is actaully stricter on T/B centering now than they were in the past, in my experience, at least..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Just got these back from PSA. All pulled from wax by me. Really elated about these grades!
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 474 LUKE WALKER Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 511 RANGERS TEAM BILLY MARTIN, MGR. Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 189 1951-MVP'S Y.BERRA/R.CAMPANELLA Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 285 ELLIE RODRIGUEZ Card Pop 2! MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 465 WORLD SERIES GAME 5 Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 459 A.L. CHAMPIONSHIPS Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 463 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 318 ERNIE McANALLY Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 324 ED KRANEPOOL Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 324 ED KRANEPOOL Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 303 GRANT JACKSON Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 299 BUCKY DENT Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 366 KEN SANDERS Card Pop 2! MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 518 LEO CARDENAS Card GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 235 JACK BILLINGHAM Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 119 TOMMY HELMS Card MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 309 STOLEN BASE LEADERS B.NORTH/L.BROCK Card NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 178 CESAR TOVAR Card MINT 9 1978 TOPPS 141 RUPPERT JONES Card
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'm new to the '75 mini set. I always desired it and finally got around to buying a nice starter collection in nmmt. I'm looking around for album pages to put them into and can't find any that are being made. I apologize if this has been discussed before but can someone give me some advice or info? Thanks
I'm new to the '75 mini set. I always desired it and finally got around to buying a nice starter collection in nmmt. I'm looking around for album pages to put them into and can't find any that are being made. I apologize if this has been discussed before but can someone give me some advice or info? Thanks >>
Welcome Hause! I usually put my raw minis in penny sleeves and then in regular 9-pocket sheets. They go in very easily which I like.
This thread has fallen way too far, so it was time for a bump...
Picked up my first hof 9 that I needed in a long time last night, Winfield. Not stellar, but legit, so I am pretty happy. I have some very nice minis logged yesterday so maybe have some to offer in the coming weeks.
Congrats on the Winfield, Jim and good luck on your latest sub.
I haven't done much with my set lately. However, I'm going to look at a partial ungraded Mini set this weekend, and I'm hoping I can find some decent upgrades to sub for my set. Other than that, I've pretty much come to halt with the Mini's. I have a very small stack of about 15 or so nice commons that have pop sizes in 8's of between 50 and 60, but the return just isn't there to justify the time and effort to get them graded.
I think it is fair to say that there are few who have opened as many minis as I have at this point. For that matter, I have rarely met any pack or case that stayed sealed for long.
That said, at today's market for minis, I can't see opening any, maybe ever again. Kinda sad, but part of the product life cycle.
Hey Jim grats on the Winfield!...I was going to pull the trigger on that, but I figured you would have an aneurism. lol - that is a very under-rated card as I am sure you know. Many of the existing 9s are cut and very few have been graded after the window closed on that behavior. I have been trying to reorganize my card-room based on all my recent purchases (unopened material) - good lord does that stuff take up space! BTW I am not sure I understand your last post can you elaborate?
Henry, I think Jim is saying the prices that 75 mini wax boxes are now commanding have made ripping packs an almost certain losing proposition unless you are fortunate enough to pull a few low pop 10s or a PSA 9 Brett or Aaron and then some.
I would concur with that assessment, though I still think when you are lucky enough to find a cherry run of centered packs, the payoff is still there to claim.
I have two BBCE mini wax boxes that I bought about a decade ago and maybe 100 graded mini packs, both PSA and GAI, but haven't opened any in a long time. I also have a few 75 mini cello boxes but I never thought much about ripping those for obvious reasons. I gave in to temptation and ripped a mini rack about 6 months ago (was lucky to pull a Mint 9 Yount), but still have several of those, which are by far the toughest of all mini packs to find unopened, and arguably the toughest of any racks from the 1970s.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Tim got it. I don't mean to sound flip, but taking a 1k flyer on a box that you know is most likely crap, but you will get your usual 1-2 cards per pack gradable is one thing. You don't get hurt so bad.
Taking a 2,300 flyer in the same scenario is a recipe for disaster. Hit a PSA 9 Brett? Awesome, now you only need to recoup another 1,500 after getting basically the best hit. Of course it is possible to hit a freak card or a freak box, but lets be honest, at this point, any loose box floating around is 95% a reseal or from a horror case. Even the 16 boxes floating around over the last year "BBCE - from a sealed case" are from a known horror case and are commanding 2,200++
Not saying you cant get lucky or maybe an old box like Tim has is an exception, but there are few days of mini unopened joy ahead of us.
BTW - I am thinking about not holding onto the graded cello box I bought, so if anyone is interested, drop me a note.
Thanks, I figured that was what you meant...especially since the unopened box on REA is now over 2000! I thought though there might have been another subtle point that the price of high grade PSA minis will not (in the foreseeable future) appreciate in a way that would justify ripping packs. I have been consistent over the years, even after the Conlon sales, saying that the true pops of minis is substantially lower than other 70s sets in high grade. I always thought that the minis had among the lowest conversion rate of ripping to 9s and 10s. I think that the actual market appreciation will take years if not a decade because of the low circulation rate. That is to the benefit of buyers who are patient. But it is happening. In regards to the recent B. Robinson 9, three of us went over 500.00 and I barely won that auction (sorry Jim, but I think you were only 15 dollars or so below my max). So is a full-sized B. Robby now safely over 500.00 or does it rely on the usual few bidders? It seems the Brett 9 is now substantially higher than it was before - but is it sustainable? Something has to give...either the unopened prices plateau and/or decrease, or if it doesn't then the PSA prices must appreciate in order to justify the unopened prices, and if they don't begin to appreciate then they must anchor the unopened prices down correct?
So I swung by the SoCal show yesterday...and saw the most awesome sight...
There I was browsing at a table when I look next to me and see two boys, around 10-12 yrs old I'm thinking, buying raw 1975 Minis. It didn't compute at first, seeing kids that age selecting Cedeno and Twitchell. So I asked if I could join them in looking through the raw set from which they were buying and began talking to them. Turns out they were building the set, because, "A friend said this was a good old one to build, with the colors and HOFers." So it wasn't even their fathers who got them into it, but a peer.
Needless to say, I congratulated them on their shockingly good taste in cards.
I then helped impart whatever knowledge I could about the set (basically wrote a book for them right there, going over each card in the set and its nuances, lol).
Anyways, just a really good vibe and shows the hobby is quite alive with some of the kids today.
What's everyone think of the prices of the unopened wax and cello box in the REA auction that just ended? Strong price for sure? Does this mean more will come up for sale with those results?
2200 is the new norm for wax, a couple have gone off now at that and bbce new buy prices reflect that as well. I'm not upset at a near 2700 price on the raw cello box at all either.
On that note, I'm going to offer up my graded cello box and see what happens. I'll offer it here first as I'd rather the mini folks have first crack if they want it. The details are a cut and paste from the original auction 321073128408: THE BOX CONSISTS OF 9-PSA 9'S, 8 PSA 8'S, 6 PSA 7'S AND 1 PSA 6. THE PACKS ARE ALL CLEAN, FACTORY FRESH AND ORIGINAL-GUARANTEED!!. THE PACKS ALL LOOK LIKE PSA 9'S TO ME BUT SOME WERE DOWNGRADED BECAUSE OF TOP CARD CENTERING. STARS ON TOP INCLUDE NOLAN RYAN-PSA 7, REGGIE JACKSON-PSA 7 AND JOHNNY BENCH RBI LEADER PSA 6.
The best pack is the Ryan PSA 7, which is oc, but also happens to have the Koufax MVP on the reverse.
I'd want to clear 2,500 to sell it, or I'd just forget I had it for another six months and revisit. No biggie. I'm not a big fan of cello, as anyone here a while knows, but this seemed like a nice compliment to my mini hoard at the time...
<< <i>What's everyone think of the prices of the unopened wax and cello box in the REA auction that just ended? Strong price for sure? Does this mean more will come up for sale with those results?
aconte >>
If wax boxes are going for $2200 I know one that will be up for sale!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing >>
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing >>
They were bouncing off the walls all weekend. Huge thanks to Matty C for taking the time to talk to them, their parents (my neighbors) were really appreciative as well. I'm sure I'll be sending them a link to this thread so they can take advantage of the knowledge shared here as they work on this set.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
The pleasure was really mine; how often do we card guys get to expound at length on all the nuances of our favorite issues-- and to excited new collectors at that? Most of my friends and family are gracious enough to humor me from time to time I suppose. But seriously I could've stayed there a few hours discussing the rarity and beauty of a centered Larry Milbourne, lol. Then again that might have backfired and I could've bored those kids out of the set
Got poppage today. Unfortunately, I got the grader of death on a 500 card order. Zero 10s prior to 1981 and very few 9s. Comparatively few 10s on more recent as well, as Minis were almost all 7 and 8 and there were nice cards in this sub. I'll look them over when I get them and decide what to crack... did get a number of meaningful 8s: 6 Marshall 30 Blyleven 41 Geronimo 61 Winfield 82 Kelly 94 Lonborg 99 Hegan 100 Stargell 101 Expos 104 Madlock 133 Dreissen 143 Johnson 8.5, best card in the sub 157 Borbon 195 mantle/Aaron 8.5 228 Brett - nice card, was hoping for an 8.5 302 Burleson 335 Palmer - I was so hoping for a 9 on this one, will definitely crack it 503 Stanley 514 cruz 616 Rice 620 Carter
The only 9s were rau, fairly and mota. All will be up for sale when I have them in hand, so yell if you need before I ebay em.
<< <i>having graded well over 20k cards, including almost 10,000 minis, I definitely know the grader of death when I see his work :-P >>
Agreed Jim, you guys are top notch and I love reading about these dang mini's (I'm back at #16!), I always look forward to seeing your new cards up on the bay, ...Some bubbly person can just go "take a bath" be it purple or pink bubbles!!, this forum is about the mini's and these dang things are tough................I built a 1959 Topps baseball set, heck, that's peachy easy compared to this one...geez, what did I get myself into It's getting time to start thinking about another set to build, geez, should I torture myself again!...Thanks everyone here!(minus bubbles), love the reading!
Grading is not down in a vacuum and experienced submitters of multiple issues like Jim realize how subjective it can be. A card graded an 8 one day can grade a 9 on another day by a different grader with a different perspective or opinion. That's just the nature of the beast. Does not necessarily have to do with the cards. And Jim has submitted more minis than anyone.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Let me put it even differently, taking minis out of the discussion for a second. I happen to have a fondness for 1984 Fleer, going back to 1984. Loved the clean look and pictures. I have also graded quite a few of these and as they don't sell for a whole lot, you have to be extremely picky. Over time, I have a rate of over 50% psa 10s on these. More recently, I broke a pair of 4 vending box lots in sequence (gives you 3 sets) from the same case. One this order and one on the previous. Here are the results:
Current order - 34 cards subbed: 4 10s, 28 9s, 1 8.5 and 1 8 Previous order - 39 cards subbed: 21 10s, 18 9s
Same case, even tougher eye as I graded 34/2000 instead of 39/2000, yet I had an 11.7% 10 rate, compared to 53.8, which was near my norm. I have broken several vending cases worth of this product, so I know it well.
Call the guy what you want, I'll use grader of death. Particularly in a case like the 84s where a 10 on many of the cards will only sell for 15-20, so there is no way to recoup by cracking and hoping for better as I will on minis. Graders are human, but I will tell you flat out, they grade by routine and momentum on large order, small maybe too. Guy gets in his head this lot of minis is nm/mt, and you are going to get 8'd to death. Just like if he decides your 80s and clean, you are going to have 10s all over the place.
This particular order was 895 cards, broken into 2 parts. I pray the second half goes to someone having a better day.
<< <i>having graded well over 20k cards, including almost 10,000 minis, I definitely know the grader of death when I see his work :-P >>
Ha - I realize you're just being flip and expressing frustration ... I'm sure you've reviewed your many subs plenty of times to see your own progression ... after doing so many it would be interesting to see how you have progressed in graph form as I'm sure you've seen from me in my thread. >>
I'd like to see a graph or chart showing the timeline and the effects of auctioning off empty boxes with wrappers and gum with re-entry into the unopened market as bogus packs.
10s on minis are quite simply NOT based solely on the condition of the cards you submit.
10s on minis come in bunches or not at all. I went years before hitting my first 10, then hit 14 in one order. I split a case I broke several years ago, shame the thread was poofed, into two halves. The first half had over a dozen 10s, including Seaver, Banks and Brock as well as about 35% 9s. The second half, exact same case, was graded almost entirely 8. Was like 6% 9s and no 10s. Exact same source. In that case I went utterly berserk and Joe graciously agreed to review the order, almost half of which bumped on review.
PSA is the best of the bunch, but they are flawed and human like anyone else. It isn't personal, but that doesn't mean you should quietly accept it when it impacts you adversely.
I'm done debating. I don't come into someone's area of expertise and pretend to know more than them and don't have a world of respect for others who do. I will however comment on that which I am comfortable in my own knowledge and experience.
Good grief Charlie Brown... my comments on minis have nothing to do with not getting any 10s. I don't expect them, ever. Every 10 I own could be in a 9 slab and many of my 9s could be in a 10 slab.
In terms of minis, my issue is getting a grader who gives a wall of 8s. This can work in your favor on some low pops as they are quite valuable, however it is lazy and inaccurate.
My lifetime rate on 9s is right around 20%, in line with the 18% for this issue. When I get an order back with 3% 9s, it is not unreasonable to not be thrilled.
<< <i>It's important to set a good example for the newbies here also >>
That might be good advice for yourself when it comes to wrappers and gum!...
Advice: When a newbie is pondering a chance at at box of 1979 Topps, please take a moment and ensure they smell like bubble gum and not scrubbing bubbles!
Thanks guys. I actually got to thinking on the subject and checking my memory versus reality, never a bad thing. So, here is the real world...
When I broke a case in 2010, I was lucky enough to be able to grade 1,477 out of 5760 cards. The case had water damage and maybe 1,000 of the 5,760 were ruined as well, so the case was nice enough to be able to grade almost 1/3 of the cards. Anyone who has opened minis knows how amazing that is. The 1,477 cards were broken down into 3 parts (which they do with large orders), with the following results:
Same cards, same case. That is what happens when humans grade. It works both ways, sometimes you pop the first Tommy Davis 9 on a card you hoped for an 8 on as well.
MD: I remember that amazing sub with the Davis 9. That was a dream sub. The data you've provided and your assessments, BTW, are spot on as usual IMO.
I've most definitely felt the "wall" to which you refer, but more so over periods of time (measured in months), as most of my subs are too small individually to detect any patterns.
Keeping this in mind will help more people do better and allow everyone to enjoy this hobby more with less of the threads blaming PSA for subpar grades and more threads helping others learn why grades are what they are and how to try and be more selective.
The patronizing tone here is highly entertaining coming from you.
Did you write that down, Jim?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Best to just ignore...Jim is probably THE leading expert on mini grading...btw I'm still steaming at myself for blowing the latest beautiful Goodson 9! M***F***...nice one T.A. you got me on that one.
Comments
That said, a regular 75 sheet is probably worth more than a mini. Both Brett and Yount command premiums over minis in 10.
I won the 74 SGC lot and got stuck with the oddball hof lot with the discs and panels when my qualifying bid stood up. I'll do fine on it, but woops... :-P
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Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
One mini cello box, one mini wax box, bout it on minis.
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EDIT: not the ones still listed, but a group including a psa 9 Goodson, psa 9 Hermann and several other 9s and 10s that I have never seen before.
Also, am I the only one noticing some of the 8s they are grading recently are ridiculously off-centered T/B? They used to be strict on that...sigh
[URL=http://s1310.photobucket.com/user/MintMoondog/media/1975m_050_p8_90089456_zps4af82f2e.jpg.html]
I didn't see those PSA 9's you mentioned; however, there is a guy selling regular issue PSA 9's of Goodson and Hermann. Perhaps you inadvertently forgot "mini" in your search description and stumbled on these? I've done that before, and hit the BIN thinking I was getting a great deal on a mini only to find out later that it was a regular issue.
Judging by the font on the flip, that Robinson card was graded a while back (early to mid-2000s). I did a quick measure and found that B/T centering is 32/68, which falls within the parameters of an 8, albeit barely so.
<< <i>Hi Henry,
I didn't see those PSA 9's you mentioned; however, there is a guy selling regular issue PSA 9's of Goodson and Hermann. Perhaps you inadvertently forgot "mini" in your search description and stumbled on these? I've done that before, and hit the BIN thinking I was getting a great deal on a mini only to find out later that it was a regular issue.
Judging by the font on the flip, that Robinson card was graded a while back (early to mid-2000s). I did a quick measure and found that B/T centering is 32/68, which falls within the parameters of an 8, albeit barely so. >>
Thanks Indy! Yah that is exactly what happened...I was looking at reg 75s to update my set then came back in the evening, the costs of getting old
In regards to your measurement. I dunno, I am still not buying that if you double the bottom border it will equal the top (implied in the 32-68). I will say this, I don't remember seeing so many low centered 8s 4-5 years ago. In fact, I remember Jim saying specifically that PSA was tougher on T/B than they were R/L.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 474 LUKE WALKER Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 511 RANGERS TEAM BILLY MARTIN, MGR. Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 189 1951-MVP'S Y.BERRA/R.CAMPANELLA Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 285 ELLIE RODRIGUEZ Card Pop 2!
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 465 WORLD SERIES GAME 5 Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 459 A.L. CHAMPIONSHIPS Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 463 WORLD SERIES GAME 3 Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 318 ERNIE McANALLY Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 324 ED KRANEPOOL Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 324 ED KRANEPOOL Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 303 GRANT JACKSON Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 299 BUCKY DENT Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 366 KEN SANDERS Card Pop 2!
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 518 LEO CARDENAS Card
GEM MINT 10 1975 TOPPS MINI 235 JACK BILLINGHAM Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 119 TOMMY HELMS Card
MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 309 STOLEN BASE LEADERS B.NORTH/L.BROCK Card
NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 178 CESAR TOVAR Card
MINT 9 1978 TOPPS 141 RUPPERT JONES Card
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
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I'm new to the '75 mini set. I always desired it and finally got around to buying a nice starter collection in nmmt. I'm looking around for album pages to put them into and can't find any that are being made. I apologize if this has been discussed before but can someone give me some advice or info?
Thanks
<< <i>Hello
I'm new to the '75 mini set. I always desired it and finally got around to buying a nice starter collection in nmmt. I'm looking around for album pages to put them into and can't find any that are being made. I apologize if this has been discussed before but can someone give me some advice or info?
Thanks >>
Welcome Hause! I usually put my raw minis in penny sleeves and then in regular 9-pocket sheets. They go in very easily which I like.
Picked up my first hof 9 that I needed in a long time last night, Winfield. Not stellar, but legit, so I am pretty happy. I have some very nice minis logged yesterday so maybe have some to offer in the coming weeks.
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I haven't done much with my set lately. However, I'm going to look at a partial ungraded Mini set this weekend, and I'm hoping I can find some decent upgrades to sub for my set. Other than that, I've pretty much come to halt with the Mini's. I have a very small stack of about 15 or so nice commons that have pop sizes in 8's of between 50 and 60, but the return just isn't there to justify the time and effort to get them graded.
Shane
That said, at today's market for minis, I can't see opening any, maybe ever again. Kinda sad, but part of the product life cycle.
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I have been trying to reorganize my card-room based on all my recent purchases (unopened material) - good lord does that stuff take up space!
BTW I am not sure I understand your last post can you elaborate?
I would concur with that assessment, though I still think when you are lucky enough to find a cherry run of centered packs, the payoff is still there to claim.
I have two BBCE mini wax boxes that I bought about a decade ago and maybe 100 graded mini packs, both PSA and GAI, but haven't opened any in a long time. I also have a few 75 mini cello boxes but I never thought much about ripping those for obvious reasons. I gave in to temptation and ripped a mini rack about 6 months ago (was lucky to pull a Mint 9 Yount), but still have several of those, which are by far the toughest of all mini packs to find unopened, and arguably the toughest of any racks from the 1970s.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Taking a 2,300 flyer in the same scenario is a recipe for disaster. Hit a PSA 9 Brett? Awesome, now you only need to recoup another 1,500 after getting basically the best hit. Of course it is possible to hit a freak card or a freak box, but lets be honest, at this point, any loose box floating around is 95% a reseal or from a horror case. Even the 16 boxes floating around over the last year "BBCE - from a sealed case" are from a known horror case and are commanding 2,200++
Not saying you cant get lucky or maybe an old box like Tim has is an exception, but there are few days of mini unopened joy ahead of us.
BTW - I am thinking about not holding onto the graded cello box I bought, so if anyone is interested, drop me a note.
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I think that the actual market appreciation will take years if not a decade because of the low circulation rate. That is to the benefit of buyers who are patient. But it is happening. In regards to the recent B. Robinson 9, three of us went over 500.00 and I barely won that auction (sorry Jim, but I think you were only 15 dollars or so below my max). So is a full-sized B. Robby now safely over 500.00 or does it rely on the usual few bidders? It seems the Brett 9 is now substantially higher than it was before - but is it sustainable?
Something has to give...either the unopened prices plateau and/or decrease, or if it doesn't then the PSA prices must appreciate in order to justify the unopened prices, and if they don't begin to appreciate then they must anchor the unopened prices down correct?
There I was browsing at a table when I look next to me and see two boys, around 10-12 yrs old I'm thinking, buying raw 1975 Minis. It didn't compute at first, seeing kids that age selecting Cedeno and Twitchell. So I asked if I could join them in looking through the raw set from which they were buying and began talking to them. Turns out they were building the set, because, "A friend said this was a good old one to build, with the colors and HOFers." So it wasn't even their fathers who got them into it, but a peer.
Needless to say, I congratulated them on their shockingly good taste in cards.
I then helped impart whatever knowledge I could about the set (basically wrote a book for them right there, going over each card in the set and its nuances, lol).
Anyways, just a really good vibe and shows the hobby is quite alive with some of the kids today.
aconte
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THE BOX CONSISTS OF 9-PSA 9'S, 8 PSA 8'S, 6 PSA 7'S AND 1 PSA 6. THE PACKS ARE ALL CLEAN, FACTORY FRESH AND ORIGINAL-GUARANTEED!!. THE PACKS ALL LOOK LIKE PSA 9'S TO ME BUT SOME WERE DOWNGRADED BECAUSE OF TOP CARD CENTERING. STARS ON TOP INCLUDE NOLAN RYAN-PSA 7, REGGIE JACKSON-PSA 7 AND JOHNNY BENCH RBI LEADER PSA 6.
The best pack is the Ryan PSA 7, which is oc, but also happens to have the Koufax MVP on the reverse.
I'd want to clear 2,500 to sell it, or I'd just forget I had it for another six months and revisit. No biggie. I'm not a big fan of cello, as anyone here a while knows, but this seemed like a nice compliment to my mini hoard at the time...
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<< <i>What's everyone think of the prices of the unopened wax and cello box in the REA auction that just ended? Strong price for sure? Does this mean more will come up for sale with those results?
aconte >>
If wax boxes are going for $2200 I know one that will be up for sale!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing
My stories with minis at a show generally go like this:
"Dude, you know that Brett is trimmed right?"
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<< <i>Matty C.
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing
+2
<< <i>Matty C.
That is about the best story I've heard in quite some time regarding the Mini's! Kind of you to fill the little guys in on your advanced knowledge of the set. What I'd have given to see the looks on their faces during your little chat! Thanks for sharing
They were bouncing off the walls all weekend. Huge thanks to Matty C for taking the time to talk to them, their parents (my neighbors) were really appreciative as well. I'm sure I'll be sending them a link to this thread so they can take advantage of the knowledge shared here as they work on this set.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
6 Marshall
30 Blyleven
41 Geronimo
61 Winfield
82 Kelly
94 Lonborg
99 Hegan
100 Stargell
101 Expos
104 Madlock
133 Dreissen
143 Johnson 8.5, best card in the sub
157 Borbon
195 mantle/Aaron 8.5
228 Brett - nice card, was hoping for an 8.5
302 Burleson
335 Palmer - I was so hoping for a 9 on this one, will definitely crack it
503 Stanley
514 cruz
616 Rice
620 Carter
The only 9s were rau, fairly and mota. All will be up for sale when I have them in hand, so yell if you need before I ebay em.
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<< <i>having graded well over 20k cards, including almost 10,000 minis, I definitely know the grader of death when I see his work :-P >>
Agreed Jim, you guys are top notch and I love reading about these dang mini's (I'm back at #16!), I always look forward to seeing your new cards up on the bay, ...Some bubbly person can just go "take a bath" be it purple or pink bubbles!!, this forum is about the mini's and these dang things are tough................I built a 1959 Topps baseball set, heck, that's peachy easy compared to this one...geez, what did I get myself into
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Current order - 34 cards subbed: 4 10s, 28 9s, 1 8.5 and 1 8
Previous order - 39 cards subbed: 21 10s, 18 9s
Same case, even tougher eye as I graded 34/2000 instead of 39/2000, yet I had an 11.7% 10 rate, compared to 53.8, which was near my norm. I have broken several vending cases worth of this product, so I know it well.
Call the guy what you want, I'll use grader of death. Particularly in a case like the 84s where a 10 on many of the cards will only sell for 15-20, so there is no way to recoup by cracking and hoping for better as I will on minis. Graders are human, but I will tell you flat out, they grade by routine and momentum on large order, small maybe too. Guy gets in his head this lot of minis is nm/mt, and you are going to get 8'd to death. Just like if he decides your 80s and clean, you are going to have 10s all over the place.
This particular order was 895 cards, broken into 2 parts. I pray the second half goes to someone having a better day.
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<< <i>
<< <i>having graded well over 20k cards, including almost 10,000 minis, I definitely know the grader of death when I see his work :-P >>
Ha - I realize you're just being flip and expressing frustration ... I'm sure you've reviewed your many subs plenty of times to see your own progression ... after doing so many it would be interesting to see how you have progressed in graph form as I'm sure you've seen from me in my thread. >>
I'd like to see a graph or chart showing the timeline and the effects of auctioning off empty boxes with wrappers and gum with re-entry into the unopened market as bogus packs.
aconte
10s on minis come in bunches or not at all. I went years before hitting my first 10, then hit 14 in one order. I split a case I broke several years ago, shame the thread was poofed, into two halves. The first half had over a dozen 10s, including Seaver, Banks and Brock as well as about 35% 9s. The second half, exact same case, was graded almost entirely 8. Was like 6% 9s and no 10s. Exact same source. In that case I went utterly berserk and Joe graciously agreed to review the order, almost half of which bumped on review.
PSA is the best of the bunch, but they are flawed and human like anyone else. It isn't personal, but that doesn't mean you should quietly accept it when it impacts you adversely.
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The mail just came, so it is sorting time. Here is one example that you don't have to take my word for. Take PSA's own word. I was not happy with an 8 on this card, so I cracked it, here is the result from this same batch:
[URL=http://s610.photobucket.com/user/jimduffett/media/May2401_zps264822f0.jpg.html]
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In terms of minis, my issue is getting a grader who gives a wall of 8s. This can work in your favor on some low pops as they are quite valuable, however it is lazy and inaccurate.
My lifetime rate on 9s is right around 20%, in line with the 18% for this issue. When I get an order back with 3% 9s, it is not unreasonable to not be thrilled.
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<< <i>It's important to set a good example for the newbies here also >>
That might be good advice for yourself when it comes to wrappers and gum!...
Advice: When a newbie is pondering a chance at at box of 1979 Topps, please take a moment and ensure they smell like bubble gum and not scrubbing bubbles!
Work in progress - Unopened Racks/Cello/Wax with star power for Baseball, Football and Basketball
Collecting unopened 80's boxes and graded packs
I may be hoarding too much 80's junk wax but I like it!
When I broke a case in 2010, I was lucky enough to be able to grade 1,477 out of 5760 cards. The case had water damage and maybe 1,000 of the 5,760 were ruined as well, so the case was nice enough to be able to grade almost 1/3 of the cards. Anyone who has opened minis knows how amazing that is. The 1,477 cards were broken down into 3 parts (which they do with large orders), with the following results:
528 cards - 5 10s, 164 9s
492 cards - 7 10s, 123 9s
457 cards - 0 10s, 39 9s
Same cards, same case. That is what happens when humans grade. It works both ways, sometimes you pop the first Tommy Davis 9 on a card you hoped for an 8 on as well.
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I've most definitely felt the "wall" to which you refer, but more so over periods of time (measured in months), as most of my subs are too small individually to detect any patterns.
The patronizing tone here is highly entertaining coming from you.
Did you write that down, Jim?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.