I spent about about 45 minutes watching the auctions last night, but I didn't do any bidding. In addition to the Randle, I thought other bargains were the 58 Taylor, 64 Chalk, 481 McEnaney, and 512 Milbourne. Congratulations to the winners. You all scored some beautiful cards.
BBG: MiniDuff briefly explained the fate of Henry and his registry sets back on September 13, 2012 in this very thread. It's a touchy subject around here.
So this my first post and the mini forum caught my eye... I'll be breaking out my raw collection over the next few months and am wondering if any of you are willing to give some tips about how I should go about this? It's a fairly expensive proposition to have a large amount of cards graded. How can I prioritize what to have graded and why? If I try to get a full set graded, any tips on how to progress? How do I know if and when it's 'worth it'? If I decide to sell, is it a good time? I've probably got about 1500 minis (at least one full set) and most I'm hoping are in the 7 and 8 range with a spattering of 9's perhaps? I just don't know enough about the grading scale so am looking forward to getting my first submission back... hopefully around the 1st of the year.
Cheers, Nim
Baseball Early-Mid 70's Football Early-Mid 70's... and 75 minis
Scan a few with the lid open to get a black background and post the scans here, Nim. Guys here are pretty accurate estimators, and may save you a few bucks.
I agree, except that 3 touched corners on Aaron will probably hold it to a 7. And I would say 50/50 chance Jackson gets a 6 with the upper left corner bend.
From the small sample of cards you scanned, I would conclude that you have a really nice raw set - and that it should stay that way. All the cards you scanned have great color and are mostly very appealing. But they will not stand up to the inspection required to get them into a PSA 8/9 holder.
So enjoy the set as is. Just my 2 cents. I mean no ill will as I repeat, that appears to be a very nice raw set.
HockeyCrazy, Appreciate the candor. That is exactly the input I was looking for (though not necessarily the content). It's hard to really tell what makes a card grade without having a good point of reference. These cards were collected as a teen and not handled very much but I'm seeing that is all it takes to drop them into masses.
Baseball Early-Mid 70's Football Early-Mid 70's... and 75 minis
The scans are perfect Nim. If they look sharp in this type of scan, you'll know you have a grader.
Looks like a nice NM+ set so far, but as the others pointed out, it is hard to justify the grading costs for anything less than 8/9/10. Rice and Aaron are close....
This is likely old news for most everybody, but I thought I would share it anyway.
In addition to a registered set, I've been trying to assemble a premium raw set as well - one that centers around great eye appeal. PSA 7 crackouts have made some of the best additions to this set, as have some SGC 84/88's and even a couple of BVG 8's.
For the first time, I bought a graded card from, what I consider to be, the "secondary" market. It was an FGS Gem Mint 10. I only bought it to be part of my raw set and fully intended to crack it for that purpose. However, at first glance you could see a corner crunch...not a touch, a crunch. It was pretty ugly and is further proof that [insert three letter acronym here] grading services have no business grading cards. To be perfectly honest, it would be a stretch to call it even a PSA 7.
I should have known better and won't be attempting this again.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I'd like to share a couple of observations over the last few months regarding the Mini's. I've noticed that for the last few card shows that I've attended since October, there's been a complete lack of quality raw cards that I think would grade at least an 8. This is unsual for me, in that over the last 3 years that I've been collecting Mini's, I've always managed to pick up 6-12 quality cards for grading, and there is a particular dealer that is always looking for me. Now, nothing or maybe one or two gradeable cards here and there. I've also noticed a plethora of 6's and 7's along with 8 and 9 qualifier Mini's on eBay lately - more so than I remember seeing in the recent past. Quality red/yellows and green/yellows in 8 or above are few and far between. Is it me, or have others noticed that high grade raw Mini's and quality red/yellows and green/yellows are starting to drop off the cliff?
I agree, Nick, but from a different perspective. I'm not in an area that allows me access card shows on a regular basis (short of a 3 hour rountrip) however, I've seen a near stoppage in growth on PSA's population report on nearly all red/yellows and most green/yellows.
Some PSA 8 mini cards that formerly commanded premiums and were considered low pop have now metamorphosed into near common status: Horacio Pena and Cookie Rojas are two that come to mind right away. Many others are seeing half or less of their value from only a year ago...remember when Len Randle, Andy Etchebarren, Jesus Alou and Sal Bando could all fetch north of $40? It seemed there was a slow, but very steady, population growth in the PSA 8 category across the board for most of last year. Obviously, populations will only increase or go flat as time goes on. Save for tragic accidents, like a house fire or similar, a receding population is never likely.
Earlier on this thread (like eighteen months ago), I believe Duff or MiniMaster were talking about a very similar phenomenon...how seemingly scarce cards suddenly become "unscarce" when its shown how much money they can bring in. I believe they used Stan Bahnsen as the prime example.
More recently, a PSA Ken Reitz sold just a few months ago for $113...it was the first one to be listed on the bay in about two years. Three more sales followed last year, but the average sale was under $20 each. Much of this is simple supply and demand coupled with emotional bidding.
While I started this collection in an attempt to build a solid PSA 8 set, the rising populations and slipping values made me make the move to attempting a PSA 9 set. Its going to be slow, but I can't honestly imagine the value of 9's and 10's slipping (via population growth) the way the 8's did.
Great points, Dave. While the pops of many red/yellow and green/yellow combos have stagnated, most other 8's have become overabundant versus the current demand out there. High pop 8's right now are virtually worthless, and the same cards in 9 holders are bringing less than $10 - hardly worth the grading/postage/eBay fees. I've picked up 4 high pop 9's this month for an average price of around 6-7 bucks.
In addition to the ones you mentioned, a couple of cards that come to mind that commanded relative premiums at one time but now are barely worth the grading/seller fees, include Milner, Hegan, and Cuellar. I remember searching card shows high and low for centered, clean examples of these cards to submit, to no avail. At one time about 2 years ago, Milner and Hegan were commanding $15-20 apiece and Cuellar $25. Now, each can be had for less than $10.
A year ago, I was seeing many raw mini's at shows that would likely grade out at 8's, but I didn't bother with them, because I wouldn't be able to sell them for less than the grading/seller fees, or it was cheaper to just buy the card in an 8 off of eBay for my registry set. But lately, I'm not seeing even those raw cards anymore. I'm attempting to rebuild my raw set, and am having to put in many near mint, rather than nm-mt, commons in it. I'm guessing that the reason I saw them in relative abundance at the time, is that they were the result of folks opening packs and dumping the commons on the dealers. It probably had a lot to do with the sale of the Conolon packs.
One other point, 9's were relatively easy for me to come by up to about a year or so ago. I would find these cards at shows, and looking back now, I remember a dealer telling me that the ones they were selling were pulled from packs and sold to them. The pack buster picked out the stars and dumped the rest. I averaged about 10% 9's per sub. I haven't received a 9 in over a year.
I don't dabble in the raw card market, so I can't speak to that. But, it does seem that ebay has been bereft of quality cards lately. I think that a lot of the quality graded cards are locked up in sets at this time.
Doing this for going on seven years now with minis both building my own set and cracking, breaking, ripping raw to grade and upgrade or sell.
My observation is this: Minis are cyclical. The cycle tends to last many months, or even a year or so as we go through lulls and bursts. I think there are several reasons for it...
1. Demand - how many folks are actively collecting the set at a given time and at what grade? 2. Supply - Conlon threw a curve that lasted years. On a smaller scale, a number of high caliber sets have been broken over the years: Matty, Eric three times, the nice private set a year ago. Each of these causes a trickle down. 3. Participation - When Henry took an extended break, price supports fell out. When one person builds 10 sets, we can support higher pop cards. When Eric is in the game, prices spike as well. 4. Maturity of Sets- MMs set doesnt need much, so unless he is working a second set, he doesnt need to bid often. I dont often chase 10s, so opportunities to upgrade my own dont come often either. Matty didnt buy much in the end either. 5. Maturity of Supply - The fact that BBCE now commands 1,800 a box and cant keep supply says it all. Conlon is dead, long live Conlon. I believe we are far over the top of the bell curve on the supply of new high quality minis we will ever see. 6. Environment - The issue of shorts put a cloud over this set years back that really took a lot of momentum out of it and it still lurks even today in the supply pool. The economy has also played a significant role.
I will share this as well: I have almost no inventory outside of my primary set. I had six double row boxes in the middle of last year, so thats roughly 800+ cards. I now have less than one row in a box, including dupes not yet listed. I have seen one decent raw set in the last 9 months since I nabbed probably the best raw set ever (that set broke for roughly 25k in the end after grading and I still have a number of cards in my set from it). I haven't seen raw worth grading at a show at any price in over a year. I have literally bought one raw mini in that time at a show. A Lolich that graded an 8. Thats it.
So long winded ramble aside, my conclusion is this: We are at a pause where a number of folks are stuck. They have the 8s and high pop 9s that are all you see these days and that are not active in the 10 market for commons. We saw the explosive prices paid when Erics cards were sold in two offerings. The demand is there, but the supply is not.
Great analysis, Jim. I wondered if you were finding any raw to submit. Thanks for sharing that bit of information. It definitely makes sense to me that it's cyclical. When I started my registry set in late summer 2010, I had been hemming and hawing over whether to do it for many months. What pushed me over the edge and into the mini pool was the cheap 8's on eBay, which at the time, I attributed to the then recent sale of the Conlon collection. But as you noted, I see it was more complicated than that, especially with regard to item 6 in your list, which I think also played a big factor that summer. In any event, I remember finding many 8's in the $3 and $4 range, kind of like things are now, although it seems to me that the supply of cheap 8's is higher on eBay this time around than it was back then. The lull back then only lasted a few months, as I remember, as more folks started to jump in like me, presumably because of the low cost of the 8's. Perhaps that will happen again in a few months or so.
I truly believe now that we'll never see a PSA 10 of some major HOFers from this set.
I wouldn't be so sure...there are a lot of PSA 10s popping recently from 70s baseball, including minis, so it's only a matter of time, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I truly believe now that we'll never see a PSA 10 of some major HOFers from this set.
I wouldn't be so sure...there are a lot of PSA 10s popping recently from 70s baseball, including minis, so it's only a matter of time, imo.. >>
For somethings yes it's only a matter of time ... but for others, where there is a finite supply, there may actually never be that PSA 10 example ... it simply might not exist. >>
Could be. But I certainly wouldn't want to bet heavily on that latter part of your assumption..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Had a recent pop that contained the cleanest J. Alou I've ever had - it came back 8 (scan on page 33 of this thread), after several N6's. A natural shortie, with zero yellow at the top, I was actually shocked that it finally got holdered. Maybe the moratorium on green/yellows is over?
Can someone please explain how "naturally short" cards from the factory happen? Also, looking at the sheets posted on page 7 of this thread, the green/yellows that end up with the yellow line (from the card above it on the sheet) come from another sheet (Bonds, Schmidt, Lis, Alou, etc.) other than those 3 that are posted. Does anyone have a picture of this sheet?
If those cards are not at the top row of a sheet, how would they end up short? Could it be that somewhere along the line, the lopper came out and cleaned up that yellow line across the top?
Nice card, Mike! I'm thinking it was probably the surface that kept it at an 8.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Nab the PSA 9's while you can! PSA 10 star cards will randomly pop up, case in point the #600 Rod Carew PSA 10 I recently purchased. No doubt there will be star cards that we never see in a PSA 10 holder. Heck, it wasn't very long ago we thought we'd never see a few cards in PSA 9 holders.
First minis I have graded in a while. The lot came from ebay and was nice, not stellar. A couple of decent hits (Yaz, Seaver). Interesting that natural shorts are getting graded lately, yet these popped today and did not: 81 1 20906510 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 32 REGGIE CLEVELAND Card 82 1 20906511 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 53 DAVE GIUSTI Card 83 1 20906512 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 77 RICHIE ZISK Card 84 1 20906513 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 84 ENZO HERNANDEZ Card 85 1 20906514 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 104 BILL MADLOCK Card 86 1 20906515 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 109 GEORGE HENDRICK Card 87 1 20906516 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 132 RANDY MOFFITT Card 88 1 20906517 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 143 CLIFF JOHNSON Card 89 1 20906518 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 151 STEVE BRYE Card 90 1 20906519 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 162 WILLIE MONTANEZ Card 91 1 20906520 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 175 DON MONEY Card 92 1 20906521 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 222 DAN SPILLNER Card 93 1 20906522 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 235 JACK BILLINGHAM Card 94 1 20906523 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 259 LEN RANDLE Card 95 1 20906524 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 277 FRANK TAVERAS Card 95 2 20906525 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 277 FRANK TAVERAS Card 96 1 20906526 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 279 MILT MAY Card 97 1 20906527 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 280 CARL YASTRZEMSKI Card 98 1 20906528 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 293 DICK SHARON Card 99 1 20906529 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 299 BUCKY DENT Card 100 1 20906530 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 302 RICK BURLESON Card 101 1 20906531 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 303 GRANT JACKSON Card 102 1 20906532 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 330 MIKE MARSHALL Card 103 1 20906533 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 345 CLAY CARROLL Card 104 1 20906534 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 356 RICO PETROCELLI Card 105 1 20906535 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 361 DODGERS TEAM WALTER ALSTON, MGR. Card 106 1 20906536 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 365 BOB BAILEY Card 107 1 20906537 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 370 TOM SEAVER Card 108 1 20906538 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 390 RON CEY Card 109 1 20906539 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 401 MIKE WALLACE Card 110 1 20906540 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 402 BOB TOLAN Card 111 1 20906541 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 414 MANNY MOTA Card 112 1 20906542 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 440 ANDY MESSERSMITH Card 113 1 20906543 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 447 TERRY CROWLEY Card 114 1 20906544 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 482 TOM McCRAW Card 115 1 20906545 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 502 PAT BOURQUE Card 116 1 20906546 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 564 TOMMY DAVIS Card 117 1 20906547 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 566 RAY BURRIS Card 118 1 20906548 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 570 JIM WYNN Card 119 1 20906549 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 594 JIM FULLER Card 120 1 20906550 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 603 LEW KRAUSSE Card 121 1 20906551 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 645 DANNY CATER Card 122 1 20906552 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 653 LEE RICHARDS Card
Ouch - that shorty Alou is a disappointment. I thought we (and PSA) were OK with not slabbing the short cards... Speaking for myself I have tried to purge the short cut examples. Out of curiosity, what is the measure in mm from top to bottom? What is the threshold for min size on a mini?
I agree with Jim--consistency is the key, one way or another. Personally, I don't have toio much of an objection to naturally short minis (green and red yellows), but would have no issue if they didn't holder them as full size examples are also possible, too.
Nice Yaz and seaver, Jim, btw...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I respectfully disagree that slabbing the Alou is a disappointment. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think naturally cut green/yellows and red/yellows should have a lower min size than the other color combos and be slabbed if they meet that min size and haven't been trimmed. I realize that if this were consistently the case, many relatively rare, slabbed, full-sized green/yellows and red/yellows in 8 and above would lose value, but so be it. My understanding is that they used to slab these combos, and I'll bet many of them are in registry sets now. So, on that point, it's also a question of fairness in my opinion to those who started registry sets after they raised the min size on those cards.
It seems the standard min size for all mini's is about a tenth under 80 mm. The Alou looks to be more on the order of 0.5-1 mm under 80 mm as do a few natural shorties currently be auctioned on eBay.
I just noticed your main set is open for public viewing again. Thanks for opening it up! I like to look at it every now and then, especially the photos of the 10's. Awesome job!
While I understand where those collectors are coming from regarding the naturally short cards. Siding with consistency would actually mean allowing the natural shorts to be graded. Natural shorts were graded consistantly from the time I started my set in 2004 (so probably since PSA started grading cards) until sometime around 2008-2009 when the issue of non-natural short cards came up. PSA could have simply tightened the minimum size requirement on all cards except the green/yellow, red/yellow cards. Instead they chose to include all cards from the set?
Being an expert at grading involves more than just measuring a card for a given size requirement. It involves knowing the nuances of the all the cards in a given set. That includes (for example) knowing which 75 Topps Mini cards may have a proclivity of having the name printed higher or lower on given cards. Knowing the difference between a factory cut and a trim. Knowing that green/yellow, red/yellow cards in the 75 Topps Mini set are commonly found shorter in factory wax packs.
Graders used to grade the 75 Topps Mini's with the names printed further from the inner border harshly, as they appeared off center. I now see these cards graded more fairly. Experienced graders are taking into account this nuance.
Considering all the hupla on the shorter cards it's not surprising why PSA chose to make no exceptions on size requirements. It does create a problem with consistency when looking at older graded cards having been allowed and now they are not. More troubling is that some actually are being graded now and some are not! This is definitely inconsistant. Just grade the green/yellow, red/yellow shorts so every collector has an opportunity to get a PSA 9 or 10 of this variation of 75 Topps Mini cards. Is that not consistant with what this set has been all about from it's creation?
I agree that there have been several short cards with newer certs showing up on the bay lately. However, I received my recent sub back today and had 4 cards not meet the minimum size requirement. All four are over 80mm; none are green/yellow or red/yellow.
Comments
Cheers,
Nim
Bosox1976
They don't look so good blown up like that!!!!
Thanks,
Nim
Rice 7+
Schmidt - N6 - wont grade as it is short
Aaron - 8~
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
How about these? Just some out of the middle of the pack?
Can you tell me what you are seeing to indicate your opinion? I'm trying to be an objective observer so I don't waste a bunch of time and effort.
Thanks.
Nim
From the small sample of cards you scanned, I would conclude that you have a really nice raw set - and that it should stay that way. All the cards you scanned have great color and are mostly very appealing. But they will not stand up to the inspection required to get them into a PSA 8/9 holder.
So enjoy the set as is. Just my 2 cents. I mean no ill will as I repeat, that appears to be a very nice raw set.
Appreciate the candor. That is exactly the input I was looking for (though not necessarily the content). It's hard to really tell what makes a card grade without having a good point of reference. These cards were collected as a teen and not handled very much but I'm seeing that is all it takes to drop them into masses.
Looks like a nice NM+ set so far, but as the others pointed out, it is hard to justify the grading costs for anything less than 8/9/10. Rice and Aaron are close....
Bosox1976
Thanks again forr all the input!
Nim
In addition to a registered set, I've been trying to assemble a premium raw set as well - one that centers around great eye appeal. PSA 7 crackouts have made some of the best additions to this set, as have some SGC 84/88's and even a couple of BVG 8's.
For the first time, I bought a graded card from, what I consider to be, the "secondary" market. It was an FGS Gem Mint 10. I only bought it to be part of my raw set and fully intended to crack it for that purpose. However, at first glance you could see a corner crunch...not a touch, a crunch. It was pretty ugly and is further proof that [insert three letter acronym here] grading services have no business grading cards. To be perfectly honest, it would be a stretch to call it even a PSA 7.
I should have known better and won't be attempting this again.
and I have to throw this one out there too...it's a mini!
Cheers,
Nim
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Some PSA 8 mini cards that formerly commanded premiums and were considered low pop have now metamorphosed into near common status: Horacio Pena and Cookie Rojas are two that come to mind right away. Many others are seeing half or less of their value from only a year ago...remember when Len Randle, Andy Etchebarren, Jesus Alou and Sal Bando could all fetch north of $40? It seemed there was a slow, but very steady, population growth in the PSA 8 category across the board for most of last year. Obviously, populations will only increase or go flat as time goes on. Save for tragic accidents, like a house fire or similar, a receding population is never likely.
Earlier on this thread (like eighteen months ago), I believe Duff or MiniMaster were talking about a very similar phenomenon...how seemingly scarce cards suddenly become "unscarce" when its shown how much money they can bring in. I believe they used Stan Bahnsen as the prime example.
More recently, a PSA Ken Reitz sold just a few months ago for $113...it was the first one to be listed on the bay in about two years. Three more sales followed last year, but the average sale was under $20 each. Much of this is simple supply and demand coupled with emotional bidding.
While I started this collection in an attempt to build a solid PSA 8 set, the rising populations and slipping values made me make the move to attempting a PSA 9 set. Its going to be slow, but I can't honestly imagine the value of 9's and 10's slipping (via population growth) the way the 8's did.
In addition to the ones you mentioned, a couple of cards that come to mind that commanded relative premiums at one time but now are barely worth the grading/seller fees, include Milner, Hegan, and Cuellar. I remember searching card shows high and low for centered, clean examples of these cards to submit, to no avail. At one time about 2 years ago, Milner and Hegan were commanding $15-20 apiece and Cuellar $25. Now, each can be had for less than $10.
A year ago, I was seeing many raw mini's at shows that would likely grade out at 8's, but I didn't bother with them, because I wouldn't be able to sell them for less than the grading/seller fees, or it was cheaper to just buy the card in an 8 off of eBay for my registry set. But lately, I'm not seeing even those raw cards anymore. I'm attempting to rebuild my raw set, and am having to put in many near mint, rather than nm-mt, commons in it. I'm guessing that the reason I saw them in relative abundance at the time, is that they were the result of folks opening packs and dumping the commons on the dealers. It probably had a lot to do with the sale of the Conolon packs.
One other point, 9's were relatively easy for me to come by up to about a year or so ago. I would find these cards at shows, and looking back now, I remember a dealer telling me that the ones they were selling were pulled from packs and sold to them. The pack buster picked out the stars and dumped the rest. I averaged about 10% 9's per sub. I haven't received a 9 in over a year.
My observation is this: Minis are cyclical. The cycle tends to last many months, or even a year or so as we go through lulls and bursts. I think there are several reasons for it...
1. Demand - how many folks are actively collecting the set at a given time and at what grade?
2. Supply - Conlon threw a curve that lasted years. On a smaller scale, a number of high caliber sets have been broken over the years: Matty, Eric three times, the nice private set a year ago. Each of these causes a trickle down.
3. Participation - When Henry took an extended break, price supports fell out. When one person builds 10 sets, we can support higher pop cards. When Eric is in the game, prices spike as well.
4. Maturity of Sets- MMs set doesnt need much, so unless he is working a second set, he doesnt need to bid often. I dont often chase 10s, so opportunities to upgrade my own dont come often either. Matty didnt buy much in the end either.
5. Maturity of Supply - The fact that BBCE now commands 1,800 a box and cant keep supply says it all. Conlon is dead, long live Conlon. I believe we are far over the top of the bell curve on the supply of new high quality minis we will ever see.
6. Environment - The issue of shorts put a cloud over this set years back that really took a lot of momentum out of it and it still lurks even today in the supply pool. The economy has also played a significant role.
I will share this as well: I have almost no inventory outside of my primary set. I had six double row boxes in the middle of last year, so thats roughly 800+ cards. I now have less than one row in a box, including dupes not yet listed. I have seen one decent raw set in the last 9 months since I nabbed probably the best raw set ever (that set broke for roughly 25k in the end after grading and I still have a number of cards in my set from it). I haven't seen raw worth grading at a show at any price in over a year. I have literally bought one raw mini in that time at a show. A Lolich that graded an 8. Thats it.
So long winded ramble aside, my conclusion is this: We are at a pause where a number of folks are stuck. They have the 8s and high pop 9s that are all you see these days and that are not active in the 10 market for commons. We saw the explosive prices paid when Erics cards were sold in two offerings. The demand is there, but the supply is not.
My two cents...
Jim
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
Jim,
Trust you are doing great. I page through that beautiful binder set you sold me at least once a month!
Best,
Matt
I wouldn't be so sure...there are a lot of PSA 10s popping recently from 70s baseball, including minis, so it's only a matter of time, imo..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>I truly believe now that we'll never see a PSA 10 of some major HOFers from this set.
I wouldn't be so sure...there are a lot of PSA 10s popping recently from 70s baseball, including minis, so it's only a matter of time, imo.. >>
For somethings yes it's only a matter of time ... but for others, where there is a finite supply, there may actually never be that PSA 10 example ... it simply might not exist. >>
Could be. But I certainly wouldn't want to bet heavily on that latter part of your assumption..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
edit: Here it is..
Bosox1976
If those cards are not at the top row of a sheet, how would they end up short? Could it be that somewhere along the line, the lopper came out and cleaned up that yellow line across the top?
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Nab the PSA 9's while you can! PSA 10 star cards will randomly pop up, case in point the #600 Rod Carew PSA 10 I recently purchased. No doubt there will be star cards that we never see in a PSA 10 holder. Heck, it wasn't very long ago we thought we'd never see a few cards in PSA 9 holders.
81 1 20906510 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 32 REGGIE CLEVELAND Card
82 1 20906511 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 53 DAVE GIUSTI Card
83 1 20906512 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 77 RICHIE ZISK Card
84 1 20906513 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 84 ENZO HERNANDEZ Card
85 1 20906514 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 104 BILL MADLOCK Card
86 1 20906515 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 109 GEORGE HENDRICK Card
87 1 20906516 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 132 RANDY MOFFITT Card
88 1 20906517 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 143 CLIFF JOHNSON Card
89 1 20906518 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 151 STEVE BRYE Card
90 1 20906519 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 162 WILLIE MONTANEZ Card
91 1 20906520 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 175 DON MONEY Card
92 1 20906521 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 222 DAN SPILLNER Card
93 1 20906522 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 235 JACK BILLINGHAM Card
94 1 20906523 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 259 LEN RANDLE Card
95 1 20906524 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 277 FRANK TAVERAS Card
95 2 20906525 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 277 FRANK TAVERAS Card
96 1 20906526 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 279 MILT MAY Card
97 1 20906527 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 280 CARL YASTRZEMSKI Card
98 1 20906528 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 293 DICK SHARON Card
99 1 20906529 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 299 BUCKY DENT Card
100 1 20906530 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 302 RICK BURLESON Card
101 1 20906531 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 303 GRANT JACKSON Card
102 1 20906532 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 330 MIKE MARSHALL Card
103 1 20906533 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 345 CLAY CARROLL Card
104 1 20906534 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 356 RICO PETROCELLI Card
105 1 20906535 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1975 TOPPS MINI 361 DODGERS TEAM WALTER ALSTON, MGR. Card
106 1 20906536 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 365 BOB BAILEY Card
107 1 20906537 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 370 TOM SEAVER Card
108 1 20906538 NEAR MINT 7 1975 TOPPS MINI 390 RON CEY Card
109 1 20906539 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 401 MIKE WALLACE Card
110 1 20906540 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 402 BOB TOLAN Card
111 1 20906541 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 414 MANNY MOTA Card
112 1 20906542 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 440 ANDY MESSERSMITH Card
113 1 20906543 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 447 TERRY CROWLEY Card
114 1 20906544 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 482 TOM McCRAW Card
115 1 20906545 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 502 PAT BOURQUE Card
116 1 20906546 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 564 TOMMY DAVIS Card
117 1 20906547 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 566 RAY BURRIS Card
118 1 20906548 N6: MINIMUM SIZE REQUIREMENT 1975 TOPPS MINI 570 JIM WYNN Card
119 1 20906549 MINT 9 1975 TOPPS MINI 594 JIM FULLER Card
120 1 20906550 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 603 LEW KRAUSSE Card
121 1 20906551 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 645 DANNY CATER Card
122 1 20906552 NEAR MINT-MINT 8 1975 TOPPS MINI 653 LEE RICHARDS Card
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
aconte
ebay id Duffs_Dugout
My Ebay Auctions
1975 mini's
1954 Wilson Franks
naturally short minis (green and red yellows), but would have no issue if they didn't holder them as full size examples are also possible, too.
Nice Yaz and seaver, Jim, btw...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
It seems the standard min size for all mini's is about a tenth under 80 mm. The Alou looks to be more on the order of 0.5-1 mm under 80 mm as do a few natural shorties currently be auctioned on eBay.
I just noticed your main set is open for public viewing again. Thanks for opening it up! I like to look at it every now and then, especially the photos of the 10's. Awesome job!
(Edited for my lousy typos.)
While I understand where those collectors are coming from regarding the naturally short cards. Siding with consistency would actually mean allowing the natural shorts to be graded. Natural shorts were graded consistantly from the time I started my set in 2004 (so probably since PSA started grading cards) until sometime around 2008-2009 when the issue of non-natural short cards came up. PSA could have simply tightened the minimum size requirement on all cards except the green/yellow, red/yellow cards. Instead they chose to include all cards from the set?
Being an expert at grading involves more than just measuring a card for a given size requirement. It involves knowing the nuances of the all the cards in a given set. That includes (for example) knowing which 75 Topps Mini cards may have a proclivity of having the name printed higher or lower on given cards. Knowing the difference between a factory cut and a trim. Knowing that green/yellow, red/yellow cards in the 75 Topps Mini set are commonly found shorter in factory wax packs.
Graders used to grade the 75 Topps Mini's with the names printed further from the inner border harshly, as they appeared off center. I now see these cards graded more fairly. Experienced graders are taking into account this nuance.
Considering all the hupla on the shorter cards it's not surprising why PSA chose to make no exceptions on size requirements. It does create a problem with consistency when looking at older graded cards having been allowed and now they are not. More troubling is that some actually are being graded now and some are not! This is definitely inconsistant. Just grade the green/yellow, red/yellow shorts so every collector has an opportunity to get a PSA 9 or 10 of this variation of 75 Topps Mini cards. Is that not consistant with what this set has been all about from it's creation?
Inconsistency to say the least.