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APMEX is selling the 5oz ATB coins right now - $1,395 per 5 coin set - SOLD OUT - MTB SELLING ON eBA

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    RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077


    << <i>I'm going to go with MS62PL.... >>



    We have a winner! The coin does have some hairlines but a 62 truly amazes me. I grade it MS66PL minimum.

    image
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    paladinpaladin Posts: 898 ✭✭

    That is so wrong. image


    "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."

    ~ Vince Lombardi
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    so whatcha gonna do with a 62PL? Crack it out and send to the other guys?
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    RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077


    << <i>Crack it out and send to the other guys? >>



    You're joking right? Nah, this batch of 6 is for sale for $1500 delivered in the U.S. PM if interested and I'll send you pics. All are PCGS PL in First Strike slabs. image


    image
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    My grades are in today, picked 7 out of 6 full sets

    Hot Springs - MS68DM
    Mount Hood - MS67DM
    Mount Hood - MS68DM
    Yosemite - MS69DM
    Yosemite - MS67DM
    Grand Canyon - MS68DM
    Yellowstone - MS67PL

    Not sure if should be happy or disappointed. Happy – got one MS69DM, disappointed – got only one image But reading recent posts I feel could've been much worse.

    Now thinking which set I should try to complete. I've got "D" set from APMEX with one 69DM Mount Hood and the rest four 69PL.

    So total is 2 69DM, 3 68DM and 4 69PL
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    << <i> We have a winner! The coin does have some hairlines but a 62 truly amazes me. I grade it MS66PL minimum. >>



    I know exactly how you feel....I have a 63PL Mt. Hood and a 63DMPL Yose

    The only issues I could see on mine were SIGNIFICANT hair/polish lines ONLY visible when held at a 45 degree angle and bright lighted from the edge. Straight on it is perfect....
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    Me too. I also thought mine were great, but PCGS didn't agree. I will never grade another puck again.
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    mariner67mariner67 Posts: 2,746 ✭✭✭
    I might as well chime in once again...I initially submitted the first 2 sets I received for grading and they all came back 68DMPL, 69PL, nothing less. I then submitted a second round of 5 ATB individual pucks that I hand picked from 6 other sets, all looked just as good or better even under 8X power. They came in much lower and one was 63DMPL!
    Regardless of other's experiences...I feel grading is much harder now and also will not be submitting anymore for grading (at least not for a very long time). Just my 2 cents.
    Successful trades/buys/sells with gdavis70, adriana, wondercoin, Weiss, nibanny, IrishMike, commoncents05, pf70collector, kyleknap, barefootjuan, coindeuce, WhiteTornado, Nefprollc, ajw, JamesM, PCcoins, slinc, coindudeonebay,beernuts, and many more
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    paladinpaladin Posts: 898 ✭✭

    Several months ago I can recall posts indicating that PCGS was not downgrading for die polish lines. Obviously that is no longer the case. Really complicates matters now if you want to sell.


    "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."

    ~ Vince Lombardi
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    Well....I just got my PB coins. Definitely not worth the wait and grief....very average looking pucks with The Yose and GC showing multiple scrapes, the HS just looking blah with very noticeable die polish lines, the MH not bad but lots of polish lines, and the Yellow is a DMPL with a few scrapes and two big fingerprints on the obverse.

    Probably won't waste my money by sending any in for grading ....

    Kind of anticlimactic image
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    TomthecoinguyTomthecoinguy Posts: 849 ✭✭✭✭
    Did any of you see this fraudulent listing on e-bay?

    http://cgi.ebay.com/2011-BU-Gettysburg-5-OZ-SILVER-3-inch-ATB-Quarter-/330575007308?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item4cf7ce4e4c

    Boy, that is blatant. He pictures the Gettysburg puck with the picture of a box for the p-pucks, then he tells us it has a mintage of 27,000. Then to prove he knows he is deceiving us, he tells us his auction does not include the pictured box. Wow!
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    goldbuffalogoldbuffalo Posts: 618 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well....I just got my PB coins. Definitely not worth the wait and grief....very average looking pucks with The Yose and GC showing multiple scrapes, the HS just looking blah with very noticeable die polish lines, the MH not bad but lots of polish lines, and the Yellow is a DMPL with a few scrapes and two big fingerprints on the obverse.

    Probably won't waste my money by sending any in for grading ....

    Kind of anticlimactic image >>



    I got mine, not opened yet.

    Is there any kind of personal info, in the box, in case I sell it unopened ?

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    << <i>

    << <i>Well....I just got my PB coins. Definitely not worth the wait and grief....very average looking pucks with The Yose and GC showing multiple scrapes, the HS just looking blah with very noticeable die polish lines, the MH not bad but lots of polish lines, and the Yellow is a DMPL with a few scrapes and two big fingerprints on the obverse.

    Probably won't waste my money by sending any in for grading ....

    Kind of anticlimactic image >>



    I got mine, not opened yet.

    Is there any kind of personal info, in the box, in case I sell it unopened ? >>



    Your name and address.....a list of the coins included, and an explanation about how two people packed the order under video watch
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    << <i>Me too. I also thought mine were great, but PCGS didn't agree. I will never grade another puck again. >>



    Me as well, no way I'm shelling out that much dough to get a 66 or 67.
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    does anyone know if any paperwork came with the sets from Fidelitrade? I would like to sell mine as a sealed set but not if it has my acct # or social etc.. in there. Thanks for the help.
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    epcjimi1epcjimi1 Posts: 3,489 ✭✭✭
    FWIW, I think it's safe to assume any un-opened package of pucks from an AP will contain some personal info / Bill of Lading, what is it, who it is to, etc., etc., etc.

    Next topic - puck grading standards. Either RH is so bad at grading his six out of thirty pucks that he bothered to submit and receive an MS62, 63 + 64 - or - something is going south here real fast.

    Puck grading appears to be a moving, changing and evolving target.

    For all I know, the summer grading interns have been assigned to grade pucks.

    Some info regarding grading standards for pucks would be nice to know.

    Like die polish lines. What is the standard? A pic would help.

    Especially at the extra costs involved to submit.

    Ya want to grade bullion pucks? Let us know what the standards are, will ya?

    Seems to be darts thrown at the board.

    I'll submit my pucks when I know what the rules are.

    Thanks.
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It seems a formal letter of inquiry is due regarding their standards for grading the ATBs. There are so many reports of changing standards -- it can't be happenstance. I too have been a victim of uncalled for uber-low grades.

    Our host should be able to provide some guidance, unless there is some truth...
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    PinkFloydPinkFloyd Posts: 1,762
    Agreed....

    Grading shouldn't revolve around a secret formula of criteria. I'll leave secret formulas to the makers of Guinness and Coca Cola.

    It does appear that the standards DID shift. Enough here have gotten wild grades that I'm confident would not have been dished out a few months ago.

    First the PL/DMPL. Now.. die polish lines or ? Folks go to PCGS for accuracy and precision.
    Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
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    RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077


    << <i>Either RH is so bad at grading his six out of thirty pucks that he bothered to submit and receive an MS62, 63 + 64 - or - something is going south here real fast. >>



    RH again here. I agree the grading standards for the pucks has "evolved" and believe it is tougher now than it was last spring. That said, my 3 pieces that graded 62, 63 & 64 were all undergraded (IMHO) by 3 full points. Yes they had some hairlines, but knocking them down 5-6 points while still giving them the PL designation was surprising to me. This was far and away the worst submission I've had to PCGS on expectations vs. results. That's life.

    The 2010 puck hysteria is winding down men. Let's sit back and enjoy it for what it was. Most of us came out way ahead and losing out on one submission isn't going to cause me to go hungry. image
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    It was fun and quite the experience. I've learned a lot.
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    BAJJERFANBAJJERFAN Posts: 31,017 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>does anyone know if any paperwork came with the sets from Fidelitrade? I would like to sell mine as a sealed set but not if it has my acct # or social etc.. in there. Thanks for the help. >>



    Why don't you ask them to fax you a copy of the paperwork that is inside of the box. Or what info it contains.
    theknowitalltroll;
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    << <i>does anyone know if any paperwork came with the sets from Fidelitrade? I would like to sell mine as a sealed set but not if it has my acct # or social etc.. in there. Thanks for the help. >>



    I just found my packing slip from FT....Totally generic and actually a weak photocopy...it lists the contents and is on a FT letterhead. They must have just copied a bunch and stuck one in each box....

    No personal info at all....
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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Either RH is so bad at grading his six out of thirty pucks that he bothered to submit and receive an MS62, 63 + 64 - or - something is going south here real fast. >>



    RH again here. I agree the grading standards for the pucks has "evolved" and believe it is tougher now than it was last spring. That said, my 3 pieces that graded 62, 63 & 64 were all undergraded (IMHO) by 3 full points. Yes they had some hairlines, but knocking them down 5-6 points while still giving them the PL designation was surprising to me. This was far and away the worst submission I've had to PCGS on expectations vs. results. That's life.

    The 2010 puck hysteria is winding down men. Let's sit back and enjoy it for what it was. Most of us came out way ahead and losing out on one submission isn't going to cause me to go hungry. image >>



    I am so confused by the whole grading process, I mean hell in the latest PCGS priceguide online the First Strike MS Yellowstones and Yosemite's are worth less then the non First Strikes. The only reason I actually even sent my first batch of 15 off was to make sure they would be well protected 5 to 10 years from now. I have learned a very expensive lesson.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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    paladinpaladin Posts: 898 ✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i> ............
    I am so confused by the whole grading process, I mean hell in the latest PCGS priceguide online the First Strike MS Yellowstones and Yosemite's are worth less then the non First Strikes. ....... >>



    Well, that's about as clear cut as you can get. The FS's are worth less because they were graded first, when high grades were freely handed out. So a non-FS, graded recently, can be a higher quality coin, and that is what you're seeing in the price differential. What a mess.

    Edited: Actually, never mind. Forgot that all 2010's can be FS if you pay the extra fee. Made sense though.


    "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."

    ~ Vince Lombardi
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    pf70collectorpf70collector Posts: 6,505 ✭✭✭
    PCGS guarantees their grade and will back it up. So if you think your 69 DPML is not, the grade is guaranteed as such, even if it has die polish lines and PCGS has since excluded these for a 69 grade, though I don't see hard evidence of this. Please enlighten me.

    The only way I am collecting these bullion pucks is in FS PCGS DMPL 69 grade. I won't buy these raw at all. I already have the Gettysburg in this grade.
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    The people who already have the highly graded coins aren't really impacted by this. It is the people who have coins they thought would rate highly based on in hand comparisons of rated coins and their raw coins. Their guarantee doesn't really help someone who just sent in a bunch of cherry picked coins based on a comparison of their coins vs. previously rated coins... Hopefully their grading truly will be consistent with their earlier grading of these coins. I'll find out in a couple of weeks.
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    RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077


    << <i>I am so confused by the whole grading process, I mean hell in the latest PCGS priceguide online the First Strike MS Yellowstones and Yosemite's are worth less then the non First Strikes. >>




    That is an error in the Priceguide. Look at completed auction listings for the market value.


    I'm not as confused about the grading as I was a month ago. image Yes, the grading of these giant bullion coins has experienced a learning curve. We were part of that curve. If you currently own a raw bullion puck, the odds of it getting into a PCGS MS69DMPL slab are slim indeed. That's likely how it should have been from the outset; but there was a period of time where 69PL and 69DMPL grades relatively common. They shouldn't be common - at all.
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    << <i>

    << <i>I am so confused by the whole grading process, I mean hell in the latest PCGS priceguide online the First Strike MS Yellowstones and Yosemite's are worth less then the non First Strikes. >>




    That is an error in the Priceguide. Look at completed auction listings for the market value.


    I'm not as confused about the grading as I was a month ago. image Yes, the grading of these giant bullion coins has experienced a learning curve. We were part of that curve. If you currently own a raw bullion puck, the odds of it getting into a PCGS MS69DMPL slab are slim indeed. That's likely how it should have been from the outset; but there was a period of time where 69PL and 69DMPL grades relatively common. They shouldn't be common - at all. >>



    I remember before the pucks were issued the conventional wisdom was it would be hard to get above a 67. Man how things have changed for sure.
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    don129don129 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭
    I just received my Prudential Bache set. As many have said, it is by far the best of the 10 sets I've purchased. Regardless, based on what I'm hearing and have experienced with the ever changing grading standards at PCGS, I'm questioning whether to submit them.

    A couple of these coins clearly look nicer than some of the MS69DMPL's I received early on.... what are the chances they'll grade at least as well now? Slim to none it seems.
    Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
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    don129don129 Posts: 547 ✭✭✭


    << <i>does anyone know if any paperwork came with the sets from Fidelitrade? I would like to sell mine as a sealed set but not if it has my acct # or social etc.. in there. Thanks for the help. >>



    CONFIRMED --> Name & address is the only identifying info on the paperwork inside the box.... No acct # or SS#... nothing.
    Successful BSTs with adriana, barrytrot, Bochiman, Dabigkahuna, Modern Coin Mart, oilstates2003, terburn88, THEGENERAL
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    << <i>

    << <i>does anyone know if any paperwork came with the sets from Fidelitrade? I would like to sell mine as a sealed set but not if it has my acct # or social etc.. in there. Thanks for the help. >>



    CONFIRMED --> Name & address is the only identifying info on the paperwork inside the box.... No acct # or SS#... nothing. >>



    Thanks Don. Mine will go on the shelf sealed.
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    My whole take on the grading hijinks. Dealers by this point have submitted the bulk of their coins, this grading company answers to them, thats their bread and butter not us random donks sending in 5 coins. Dealers want the ms69 pop counts down, so now all the grades are suddenly coming back crap. I'll take my business elsewhere from now on, this company has no credibility in my mind with the arbitrary grading standards - it will be their undoing in the end.
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    I sent my Prudentials in last week, we will see how they turn out, and I will report back to you in a few weeks. They all looked beautiful so

    should grade very high. If not you will know and I too will be done with their expensive grading. I don't mind paying if it is being done fairly.
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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>My whole take on the grading hijinks. Dealers by this point have submitted the bulk of their coins, this grading company answers to them, thats their bread and butter not us random donks sending in 5 coins. Dealers want the ms69 pop counts down, so now all the grades are suddenly coming back crap. I'll take my business elsewhere from now on, this company has no integrity in my mind - it will be their undoing in the end. >>



    Well it has been a roller coaster: in the beginning I don't think anyone got DM or PL grades, then it seemed like everyone got them, and now it seems like the grades are just overall lower.

    I am not placing any blame but I for one feel like a fool for spending so much time, money, and energy on bullion, I guess I should have just bought solely for the silver content value.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    The prices have held very well for the past couple of weeks. There is only a couple that have dropped this week and they are not the 1st

    strikes. Do you think we can expect to see this continue or will the prices rise or fall?
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    CakesCakes Posts: 3,524 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>The prices have held very well for the past couple of weeks. There is only a couple that have dropped this week and they are not the 1st

    strikes. Do you think we can expect to see this continue or will the prices rise or fall? >>



    Well I think it has to be close to bottoming out but it can't help that there are still so many for sale on ebay.

    Honestly I just hope the price of silver goes back up.
    Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.

    Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
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    A lot of folks bought these coins for the wrong reasons, thinking they were going to make a lot money etc
    and are now realizing that it is not going to happen. Until all those folks are out of the market,
    I think the prices will remain unstable with a downward bias with some stability in between. my 2 cents.
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    We all knew that they would not stay as high as they were.

    I am just glad to see them level off.

    I feel that once the 2011's are done with that you will see a slight increase in prices as people want to fill in the 2010's that they don't have.

    That will probably not happen until the 2012's are available.

    The bullion coins should be more desirable as the sand blasted one's look horrible in my opinion.
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    Well, this link explains all the rim nicks and finger prints on many of the ATB Silver coins.

    LINKY
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    pitbosspitboss Posts: 8,643 ✭✭✭

    The top coin of the 4 would be the best.

    No fingerprints from there as they all are wearing gloves.
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    << <i>The top coin of the 4 would be the best.

    No fingerprints from there as they all are wearing gloves. >>



    I'm pretty sure I saw a couple of coins being held with bare hands. I'm sure it was for the video, but I bet those coins ended up in someone's hands "so to speak"
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Got my Getty grades!

    Submitted the best of 12, including a tube of 10 from Provident.

    Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
    1 1 20560016 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 2 20560017 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS68DM
    1 3 20560018 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 4 20560019 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 5 20560020 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 6 20560021 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS67DM
    Total Items: 6


    Can't complain considering the tighter grading lately. Pops report still shows 762 for the 69DM -- seems too low.
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    goldbuffalogoldbuffalo Posts: 618 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Well, this link explains all the rim nicks and finger prints on many of the ATB Silver coins.

    LINKY >>



    Cool video.

    Is that guy polishing the die at the 3:22 mark ??

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    RedHerringRedHerring Posts: 2,077


    << <i>Got my Getty grades! >>



    Congrats on your grades Akbeez! I agree with your assessment of the Getty Pop Report. Why are the MS69DM realized prices so low if only ~ 10% are attaining that grade? The mintage is high and many must be assuming the pops will explode in the future. image
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    Ohhhhh the humanity............hearing those pucks slam down chute just hurts.........bare hands to boot.
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    << <i>Got my Getty grades!

    Submitted the best of 12, including a tube of 10 from Provident.

    Line # Item # Cert # PCGS No. CoinDate Denomination Variety Country Grade
    1 1 20560016 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 2 20560017 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS68DM
    1 3 20560018 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 4 20560019 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 5 20560020 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS69DM
    1 6 20560021 507370 2011 25C Gettysburg NP - 5oz Silver US MS67DM
    Total Items: 6


    Can't complain considering the tighter grading lately. Pops report still shows 762 for the 69DM -- seems too low. >>



    I hate you akbeez image Just when I was through with grading pucks you give hope. Now I feel compelled to go through my mint tube of getty's. One on top was so dmpl not sure whats in the rest of the tube.
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    AkbeezAkbeez Posts: 2,690 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I hate you akbeez Just when I was through with grading pucks you give hope. Now I feel compelled to go through my mint tube of getty's. One on top was so dmpl not sure whats in the rest of the tube >>




    LC - Thanks...I think. There is hope!


    I can't wait for this one to come out:

    image
    Refs: MCM,Fivecents,Julio,Robman,Endzone,Coiny,Agentjim007,Musky1011,holeinone1972,Tdec1000,Type2,bumanchu, Metalsman,Wondercoin,Pitboss,Tomohawk,carew4me,segoja,thebigeng,jlc_coin,mbogoman,sportsmod,dragon,tychojoe,Schmitz7,claychaser,and many OTHERS
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    << <i>Well, this link explains all the rim nicks and finger prints on many of the ATB Silver coins.

    LINKY >>


    I like how they differentiate between the "bullion" and "numismatic" versions... and then proceed to show 2 separate "P" pucks image

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