<< <i>A-Mark still not sold out. I e-mailed and got this response. I was kind of hoping the Paypal address didn't need to match as the in-laws live just down the road. Oh well, but if anyone is still looking...
Please visit our website ASAP, www.buyatb.com, and click on "register" in the upper right hand corner in order to be put on our WAITING LIST. Coins went on sale about 1 month ago. You will not be able to purchase at this time as there is a VERY limited amount.
People will be selected at random, so please check your email daily to receive updates as to when/if more will be made available and how to purchase.
Prices are $975 including shipping.
Please be advised that we are only able to :
1) Take payment via Paypal
2) ship to the Paypal associated address
3) only 1 shipment to that address (if a friend or family member has already shipped there, your order will get CANCELLED)
4) Please ensure your current Paypal address is where you can receive your coins
Good luck in the process! >>
There are ways to get around these requirements quite easily. >>
<< <i>From the results I have been seeing, it really looks like any MS69 will be a tuff score to make. The grading looks to be getting much more conservative at PCGS. >>
<< <i>WOW!!!! What a score. My f trades were very dmpl looking but scratched and dinged, all in those bubble wrap envelopes. I have one more f trade set coming, hopefully in capsules and hopefully like yours. Three of five 69 dmpl may br a record. What an incredible score. >>
Thanks. Yes, I was very pleased. My original goal was to complete an MS69 PL set; now I'll have to shoot for a DMPL set! >>
<< <i>Got some of my grades back and still have others being graded. I did cherry pick and only send in the better looking coins.
Between Amark(2 sets), Gold Center(3 sets), and FideliTrade(1 set) in this batch - the winner was Amark. Every Amark I sent in was turned out to be a 68 or 69.
The loser was FideliTrade - every coin was dinged or scratched.
I understand now why people are paying more for Amark sets - dealers or collectors.
Variety Grade Source Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS67 G Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS67 G Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS64DM G Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS64DM G Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68DM A Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS67PL G Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F >>
3 ---69`s out of 6 sets with numbers like that these 69`s will turn out to be worth something >>
I was very shocked. These coins went in two batches - 7 Amarks and 12 raw coins. The 12 raw coins looked just as good as the Amarks. I only sent them in if they had no dings, marks, scratches or hazing.
I have some MS68PL stuff closing on true auction tomorrow, bids not what I thought they would be, at least so far, still under $300 each. A raw coins run through the gravels still sells for $300.
sales have softened A LOT on these. I've had a few buyers with remorse give me lame excuses on why they are unhappy with their graded coins and want a refund. I'd say be very happy with anything over $300 on any PCGS graded coin. I wouldn't be surprised if the guy that sold a MS69DMPL set for $10k gets an email from the buyer stating there is a problem with one or more of the coins and wants a refund.
We presently have 110 ATB auctions some of which are NGC but most are PCGS. Normally we wouldn't have so many up at once but this entire ATB fiasco has presented challenges for everyone involved. As daily buyers and sellers of coins, our strategy has always been to sell regardless of the market, in other words we don't hold back because prices have dropped. This often presents opportunities for savvy buyers. I can tell you that what we have on eBay is only a portion of our ATB inventory, we aren't just "dumping" it all by any means. In my opinion it all gets back to poor planning, a lack of accurate and timely information, and regulation of AP's in a free trade market that was the primary factor in creating the disorderly market. Am I blaming the U.S. Mint? Not entirely, but ultimately they make the product and the rules. They surprised everyone by making too few, and then told the distributors how to sell them. If they were dealers or collectors they may have been able to anticipate the problems that would follow but they are not, they are an agency, and they do many things extremely well but in my opinion this wasn't one of them. I don't understand why there isn't a panel of hobby/industry consultants that are asked to contibute insight in situations like this. It would not make for a perfect world but it would certainly help.
There may be some nice deals to be had in there. Prices have softened, and perceptions may cause them to drop further. However, 2 days of listings will be gone in a blink. You have to remember, business is business, this stuff is a business, and things can change in one day.
For example: PCGS decides to do the dm dmpl, seemed like only yesterday...
<< <i>There may be some nice deals to be had in there. Prices have softened, and perceptions may cause them to drop further. However, 2 days of listings will be gone in a blink. You have to remember, business is business, this stuff is a business, and things can change in one day.
For example: PCGS decides to do the dm dmpl, seemed like only yesterday... >>
I thought I had enough of these but if I can get some more near spot with free shipping, Im in. "I tried to get out, but they pulled me back in"
Let's step back for a moment and try to see the bright side of things. Converging circumstances created the current situation. Those same circumstances are probably creating an opportunity if we look back on it down the road. There are probably two basic points of view. One is these are tainted forever and have failed. Two is the market over reacted in the beginning and is again over reacting in the opposite direction. After seeing what has occurred its very unlikely these will ever be produced in short supply again. Logically, that means eventually the first year of issue will still be the set to own. Which do you think is more likely?
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
I still believe that these will fetch higher premiums then the Collector's Version once they are released since the collector's version won't have any reflectiveness with its sand blasting. The U.S. Quarter is probably the most widely used coin and preffered coin to have in your pocket when u walk around with change. I liked the idea that these were giant quarters because I used to have buckets of quarters in the 80's & 90's going to arcades and they somewhat remind me of the good old arcade days. haha.
If I had a fortune, I would be buying up all these coins dropping in price but sadly I do not. But I did buy up all that I could from the AP's! Bigger is always better I think when it comes to something like this and I also like the idea that its the first 3" Coin produced. =D
I still believe these will go back up in value over the years.
<< <i>Let's step back for a moment and try to see the bright side of things. Converging circumstances created the current situation. Those same circumstances are probably creating an opportunity if we look back on it down the road. There are probably two basic points of view. One is these are tainted forever and have failed. Two is the market over reacted in the beginning and is again over reacting in the opposite direction. After seeing what has occurred its very unlikely these will ever be produced in short supply again. Logically, that means eventually the first year of issue will still be the set to own. Which do you think is more likely?
John >>
I think it's to early to tell what will become of these. I believe a base is building for them. One thing is for sure imho, the market will not support any collector premium when the Mint floods the market with 100k of each issue after this limited strike. From 2011 on you will probably be looking at spot value except for the DMPL 69's which will be collected by some. I still think these will hover around $1200 +/- $100 when all is said and done, given silver @ $35 oz. You can't go wrong with these if you picked them up from the AP's at $950. I would also add that 69's be they PL or not will most likely garner a decent premium.
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>"Wow, talk about flooding the market...... "
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin >>
Selling on a Monday or Tuesday on eBay (I assume this is where you are looking) has always been a losing strategy, at least for us. In this case, prices can not and perhaps should not be controlled.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
John: Actually, I was referring to a Sat/Sun weekend sale. I understand the Monday thing.
And, I totally agree with you on the "control" comment.
But, selling (6) or (7) of the same National Park example in PCGS-MS69DMPL within the same hour on ebay ... so that any bidders who might have wanted one can bid on (7) of the very same thing in an hour span ...
that's as far as I'll go with the comment. Good luck with your auctions.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>"Wow, talk about flooding the market...... "
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin >>
It will be interesting to look at MCM's completed auctions on Mon and see what the final sale $$$ are for these auctions. I'll throw in my $.02 - Averaged out, I don't think the final sales values for MCM's 110 listings will be less than what is happening on feebay now. It's a lot of pucks to sell all at one time, but, I think this is the bottom for 2010 pucks.
But, selling (6) or (7) of the same National Park example in PCGS-MS69DMPL within the same hour on ebay ... so that any bidders who might have wanted one can bid on (7) of the very same thing in an hour span ...
Yup, like shooting yourself in the foot. I am sure last weeks customers will be over joyed as well.
<< <i>We presently have 110 ATB auctions some of which are NGC but most are PCGS. Normally we wouldn't have so many up at once but this entire ATB fiasco has presented challenges for everyone involved. As daily buyers and sellers of coins, our strategy has always been to sell regardless of the market, in other words we don't hold back because prices have dropped. This often presents opportunities for savvy buyers. I can tell you that what we have on eBay is only a portion of our ATB inventory, we aren't just "dumping" it all by any means. In my opinion it all gets back to poor planning, a lack of accurate and timely information, and regulation of AP's in a free trade market that was the primary factor in creating the disorderly market. Am I blaming the U.S. Mint? Not entirely, but ultimately they make the product and the rules. They surprised everyone by making too few, and then told the distributors how to sell them. If they were dealers or collectors they may have been able to anticipate the problems that would follow but they are not, they are an agency, and they do many things extremely well but in my opinion this wasn't one of them. I don't understand why there isn't a panel of hobby/industry consultants that are asked to contibute insight in situations like this. It would not make for a perfect world but it would certainly help.
John >>
I don't think MCM is flooding the market in a bad way. They are a business and utilizing different markets to sell their product. Plus I think they are a step up seeing as how they are on the chat boards communicating with their coin community. Not to mention I sold some pucks to them at a very fair price.
I have been caught up in the race for these but the end goal is to have a set for myself, which I do have a very nice mostly mirrored ungraded set. I currently have zero dollars into my "keeper" set (from having sold my others at a profit) and it has a value above melt already (not incluing all of the attached fees).
I just rediscovered my first bullion type purchase...a 2003 1/2oz eagle PCGS MS69 (bought this piece graded because I didn't know any better at the time), purchased in 2006 for $350...not a bad investment at today's price. And guess what, I bought it through Apmex. Yet today Apmex would not be my choice due to this puck series; I guarentee I would look at buying from MCM before anyone else.
MCM, thanks for pointing this, it is what I said since the beginning of this thread, not many understand this concept:
"and regulation of AP's in a free trade market that was the primary factor in creating the disorderly market. Am I blaming the U.S. Mint? Not entirely, but ultimately they make the product and the rules. They surprised everyone by making too few, and then told the distributors how to sell them. If they were dealers or collectors they may have been able to anticipate the problems that would follow but they are not, they are an agency, and they do many things extremely well but in my opinion this wasn't one of them. "
Hopefully those who advocated these policies will refrain from doing so in the future--------------BigE
We certainly are not expecting to get yesterday's prices or even top dollar, that's where opportunity may present itself for the buyers. It may be very unlikely that anyone else will come along with this many PCGS or NGC 2010 ATB's on eBay at one time again. But I reiterate this is only a portion of our inventory so while it may seem like a "flood" to some it isn't to us. As for selling 6 or 7 of something at the same time we've done this since starting on eBay and I'll give you it isn't the ideal way to optimize prices realized but it benefits the buyers and allows us to thin out inventory. One problem with spreading them out is if prices continue to fall there is a greater rate of buyers remorse translating into more problems for everyone.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
John: That is a very thoughtful approach and thank you for explaining that. And, by no means was I suggesting that you do not know how to run your business ... and run it very well indeed!
I will say this though ... (and this is just my humble opinion and with all due respect) ... it does appear to get very confusing for these buyers especially when they are relying on website posted prices and considering buying coins from websites right now while at the same time looking at ebay. A customer just came to me for a coin with a last sale off ebay of $2,500 on the particular PCGS ATB MS69DMPL coin and a posted website price of just under $2,400 for the same ATB coin (and he told me he was offered the coin for about $2,150 with "special website pricing"). He asked me if I could beat it. I asked him if $1,599 delivered with insured Express Mail would work for him as a final sale price keeping in mind that after the Sunday auctions one of us might be unhappy with that price level. He said my near 1/3 off discount proposal was fair and bought the coin, and I certainly hope I am the one that is unhappy with the sale on Monday morning. Perhaps all of these ebay coins will sell for very close to the levels respectable modern coin retailers are now asking from buyers on their websites. In the meantime, I have "slashed" all of my prices today to anyone taking the time to ask me for a PCGS coin, so if "epcjimi1" proves correct in his analysis, I should have some VERY happy customers come Monday!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Mitch- Understood and it's a problem for everyone including us to sell in a declining market. About a month after all the "pre-sales" which we did not participate in (I generally do not like pre-selling) we decided to start selling NGC 69 sets on our website for $4495 (I think) at the time this was the lowest price anywhere. I feel bad for those that bought at that level and there were many but we went out of our way to warn them both in writing on the website, and on the phone if they called in, that it was a rapidly changing market. Some people just have to be the first to have everything and as a business person it would be foolish for us to let somebody else sell it to them if they want to buy it from us and in most cases for less money. We also avoided all the hype that people were using to sell them by making comparisons to other coins, etc.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
John: I remember that $4,495 NGC price and seeing sets selling on ebay for closer to $5,000 at the very same time ... there was, in fact, a comment I read (perhaps on this thread) about buying a set from MCM and reselling on ebay for a profit! But, I do not recall at that time if you were selling 6 or 7 NGC-MS69 complete sets on ebay at a penny opening bid (or whatever) all closing within an hour's time from each other, while you were selling the NGC sets at $4,495 on your website? Was that the case? If not, this PCGS situation is interesting as it appears to potentially be the "flipside" of that other scenario you refer to (i.e. possible (far) higher website asking levels around the country right now and far lower simultaneous ebay levels potentially coming tomorrow).
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this ... conversations like this are what make these message boards great in my view!
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
You know... I was thinking... How will some of the AP's push out all their inventory per the Mint's regulations by the end of April to participate in the 2011 Bullion when its taking some (like fidelitrade) a long time to sell them all? Especially with declining prices and declining interest, I think a few won't beable to have all 100% of their ATB 2010 inventory pushed.
<< <i>John: I remember that $4,495 NGC price and seeing sets selling on ebay for closer to $5,000 at the very same time ... there was, in fact, a comment I read (perhaps on this thread) about buying a set from MCM and reselling on ebay for a profit! But, I do not recall at that time if you were selling 6 or 7 NGC-MS69 complete sets on ebay at a penny opening bid (or whatever) all closing within an hour's time from each other, while you were selling the NGC sets at $4,495 on your website? Was that the case? If not, this PCGS situation is interesting as it appears to potentially be the "flipside" of that other scenario you refer to (i.e. possible (far) higher website asking levels around the country right now and far lower simultaneous ebay levels potentially coming tomorrow).
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this ... conversations like this are what make these message boards great in my view!
Wondercoin >>
Yes, engaging and constructive. As I recall, at first we were only selling the NGC sets on the website. Perhaps a week later or more (light-years in ATB time) we sold some unreserved at auction. This time around we are selling them simultaneously on website and eBay as "testing of the waters" is no longer needed. I too enjoy the forums!
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go?
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
As long as we're strolling down memory lane, remember this auction? It was for one of the first PCGS MS69 Grand Canyons. At the time, the NGC versions were going for only about a third of this.
Hard to believe that was only about 6 weeks ago. And when you pull this up, what's really shocking is to see just below this listing what the current prices are for this coin. Experience is a dear teacher.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go? >>
Seems like eons ago that I stumbled across this train wreck (and glad I did) way, way, way back in Nov 2010 and was one of those Apmex participants on 3 Dec who ended up getting one of the 1st 350 sets sold to the public. Now for the record I did not feel as though I was being gouged at $1395. I'm an adult and no one held a gun to my head. Same goes for all those who paid dearly early on when "nuts" was the only way to describe the feeding frenzy. No one held a gun to their heads either.
As far as who's to blame for this fiasco I'm all for harpooning the Mint. But, this all could have been averted, as most man made disasters can be, if a couple early opportunities had been taken advantage of.
#1 occurred when Congress laid out the coin specs without consulting the Mint. Check with the Mint prior to finalization of the bill and we're looking at a smaller dia and 100,000 sets.
#2 happened when the Mint tried to fab the 3" dia coins, ran into major headaches and Moy went back to Congress asking for authorization to produce a smaller dia coin. Congress declined. Missed that chance to keep the train on the tracks.
The Mint then took over screwing things up from there on.
And Apmex? They were just the messenger. And they usually get shot.
And as far as the UNC versions go I think they got it bass ackward. The bullion ATBs that we all know and love should have had a matte finish on both sides like the bullion Eagles or the 5 oz Libertads with the UNCs having a PL finish.
Also, I have to wonder if the Mint is going to go ahead and start down the path with a UNC version they are not required to make. What happens a year or so down the road and the silver thing gets to the point that getting out the bullion versions if everything is a challenge? Are they going to skip a year of UNC ATBs? How would that work?
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go? >>
they were probably sold on TV >>
I like the "They're in private vaults" explanation. Gotta remember these APs have a lot of wealthy clients. And judging by the dramatic drop in February ASE sales announced by The Mint (down 50% from January), I suspect their clients chose to spend their bullion dollars on these.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>A-Mark still not sold out. I e-mailed and got this response. I was kind of hoping the Paypal address didn't need to match as the in-laws live just down the road. Oh well, but if anyone is still looking...
Please visit our website ASAP, www.buyatb.com, and click on "register" in the upper right hand corner in order to be put on our WAITING LIST. Coins went on sale about 1 month ago. You will not be able to purchase at this time as there is a VERY limited amount.
People will be selected at random, so please check your email daily to receive updates as to when/if more will be made available and how to purchase.
Prices are $975 including shipping.
Please be advised that we are only able to :
1) Take payment via Paypal
2) ship to the Paypal associated address
3) only 1 shipment to that address (if a friend or family member has already shipped there, your order will get CANCELLED)
4) Please ensure your current Paypal address is where you can receive your coins
Good luck in the process! >>
There are ways to get around these requirements quite easily. >>
do they call or email you where to buy?
<< <i>
<< <i>From the results I have been seeing, it really looks like any MS69 will be a tuff score to make. The grading looks to be getting much more conservative at PCGS. >>
CRAP! I just sold 3 of my 4 PCGS MS69PLs!!!!!! >>
I used to be famous now I just collect coins.
Link to My Registry Set.
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/quarters/washington-quarters-specialty-sets/washington-quarters-complete-variety-set-circulation-strikes-1932-1964/publishedset/78469
Varieties Are The Spice Of LIFE and Thanks to Those who teach us what to search For.
<< <i>
<< <i>WOW!!!! What a score. My f trades were very dmpl looking but scratched and dinged, all in those bubble wrap envelopes. I have one more f trade set coming, hopefully in capsules and hopefully like yours. Three of five 69 dmpl may br a record. What an incredible score. >>
Thanks. Yes, I was very pleased. My original goal was to complete an MS69 PL set; now I'll have to shoot for a DMPL set! >>
Good luck!!
If I get one DMPL I'll be thrilled.
<< <i>
<< <i>Got some of my grades back and still have others being graded. I did cherry pick and only send in the better looking coins.
Between Amark(2 sets), Gold Center(3 sets), and FideliTrade(1 set) in this batch - the winner was Amark. Every Amark I sent in was turned out to be a 68 or 69.
The loser was FideliTrade - every coin was dinged or scratched.
I understand now why people are paying more for Amark sets - dealers or collectors.
Variety Grade Source
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS67 G
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver MS67 G
Grand Canyon NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL A
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS64DM G
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver MS64DM G
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F
Hot Springs NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68DM A
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver MS68PL G
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F
Mount Hood NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS69PL A
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS67PL G
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F
Yellowstone NP - 5 oz Silver RAW G
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver MS65DM G
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver Choice BU A
Yosemite NP - 5 oz Silver RAW F >>
3 ---69`s out of 6 sets with numbers like that these 69`s will turn out to be worth something >>
I was very shocked. These coins went in two batches - 7 Amarks and 12 raw coins. The 12 raw coins looked just as good as the Amarks. I only sent them in if they had no dings, marks, scratches or hazing.
http://www.buyamericathebeautifulnow.com/products/96-america-the-beautiful-5oz-silver-bullion-coins.aspx
Then "register" at the top of the page
<< <i>On another forum someone posted that MCM is offering a 10% discount on all graded single pucks on their site...prices do seem to be dropping. >>
My last MS69PL Yellowstone didn't even sell on eBay even with "Make an Offer".
Anyone interested??
Two and a half pages of singles, multiple same type and some sets, I think. All of 'em slabbed, I think. Too much to figure out what all is listed.
Looks like they are all ending this Sun night.
puck glut
<< <i>MCM is moving 'em out the door on feebay -
Two and a half pages of singles, multiple same type and some sets, I think. All of 'em slabbed, I think. Too much to figure out what all is listed.
Looks like they are all ending this Sun night.
puck glut >>
Wow, talk about flooding the market......
John
For example: PCGS decides to do the dm dmpl, seemed like only yesterday...
<< <i>There may be some nice deals to be had in there. Prices have softened, and perceptions may cause them to drop further. However, 2 days of listings will be gone in a blink. You have to remember, business is business, this stuff is a business, and things can change in one day.
For example: PCGS decides to do the dm dmpl, seemed like only yesterday... >>
Having to buy from a Bullion Dealer...
A 90% premium over spot out of the gate...
Low quality, I'm seeing graded MS63's out there...
Now...
Silvers gone up $150 on the 5 coin set since issue but you can still buy them close to issue price on Ebay...
The future dose not look bright for this Bullion series in my eyes, No Collectors = No Market...
Just my view as a collector, others may differ...
Currently Listed: Nothing
Take Care, Dave
I would rather hold these than bullion silver at this point.
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>I would rather hold these than bullion silver at this point. >>
...and they are cheaper than the equivalent ASE's
...and bullion silver has no chance of collector driven price increases
If I had a fortune, I would be buying up all these coins dropping in price but sadly I do not.
I still believe these will go back up in value over the years.
<< <i>Let's step back for a moment and try to see the bright side of things. Converging circumstances created the current situation. Those same circumstances are probably creating an opportunity if we look back on it down the road. There are probably two basic points of view. One is these are tainted forever and have failed. Two is the market over reacted in the beginning and is again over reacting in the opposite direction. After seeing what has occurred its very unlikely these will ever be produced in short supply again. Logically, that means eventually the first year of issue will still be the set to own. Which do you think is more likely?
John >>
I think it's to early to tell what will become of these. I believe a base is building for them. One thing is for sure imho, the market will not support any collector premium when the Mint floods the market with 100k of each issue after this limited strike. From 2011 on you will probably be looking at spot value except for the DMPL 69's which will be collected by some. I still think these will hover around $1200 +/- $100 when all is said and done, given silver @ $35 oz. You can't go wrong with these if you picked them up from the AP's at $950. I would also add that 69's be they PL or not will most likely garner a decent premium.
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"Wow, talk about flooding the market...... "
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin >>
Selling on a Monday or Tuesday on eBay (I assume this is where you are looking) has always been a losing strategy, at least for us. In this case, prices can not and perhaps should not be controlled.
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
And, I totally agree with you on the "control" comment.
But, selling (6) or (7) of the same National Park example in PCGS-MS69DMPL within the same hour on ebay ... so that any bidders who might have wanted one can bid on (7) of the very same thing in an hour span ...
that's as far as I'll go with the comment. Good luck with your auctions.
Wondercoin
<< <i>"Wow, talk about flooding the market...... "
Hard to argue against this when (from my quick look) they are all set to sell in a 24 hour period? Even 48 hours would have been better!
The (likely) end result (IMHO)... creating a lot more work for the Price guide editor on Monday morning as he needs to adjust most prices downward!! I'll be waiting for the call (should I get it) when he asks me for my opinion on the state of the market and my interpretation of what exactly happened.
Wondercoin >>
It will be interesting to look at MCM's completed auctions on Mon and see what the final sale $$$ are for these auctions. I'll throw in my $.02 - Averaged out, I don't think the final sales values for MCM's 110 listings will be less than what is happening on feebay now. It's a lot of pucks to sell all at one time, but, I think this is the bottom for 2010 pucks.
Wondercoin
Yup, like shooting yourself in the foot. I am sure last weeks customers will be over joyed as well.
<< <i>We presently have 110 ATB auctions some of which are NGC but most are PCGS. Normally we wouldn't have so many up at once but this entire ATB fiasco has presented challenges for everyone involved. As daily buyers and sellers of coins, our strategy has always been to sell regardless of the market, in other words we don't hold back because prices have dropped. This often presents opportunities for savvy buyers. I can tell you that what we have on eBay is only a portion of our ATB inventory, we aren't just "dumping" it all by any means. In my opinion it all gets back to poor planning, a lack of accurate and timely information, and regulation of AP's in a free trade market that was the primary factor in creating the disorderly market. Am I blaming the U.S. Mint? Not entirely, but ultimately they make the product and the rules. They surprised everyone by making too few, and then told the distributors how to sell them. If they were dealers or collectors they may have been able to anticipate the problems that would follow but they are not, they are an agency, and they do many things extremely well but in my opinion this wasn't one of them. I don't understand why there isn't a panel of hobby/industry consultants that are asked to contibute insight in situations like this. It would not make for a perfect world but it would certainly help.
John >>
I don't think MCM is flooding the market in a bad way. They are a business and utilizing different markets to sell their product. Plus I think they are a step up seeing as how they are on the chat boards communicating with their coin community. Not to mention I sold some pucks to them at a very fair price.
I have been caught up in the race for these but the end goal is to have a set for myself, which I do have a very nice mostly mirrored ungraded set. I currently have zero dollars into my "keeper" set (from having sold my others at a profit) and it has a value above melt already (not incluing all of the attached fees).
I just rediscovered my first bullion type purchase...a 2003 1/2oz eagle PCGS MS69 (bought this piece graded because I didn't know any better at the time), purchased in 2006 for $350...not a bad investment at today's price. And guess what, I bought it through Apmex. Yet today Apmex would not be my choice due to this puck series; I guarentee I would look at buying from MCM before anyone else.
Funny how the world goes around.
"and regulation of AP's in a free trade market that was the primary factor in creating the disorderly market. Am I blaming the U.S. Mint? Not entirely, but ultimately they make the product and the rules. They surprised everyone by making too few, and then told the distributors how to sell them. If they were dealers or collectors they may have been able to anticipate the problems that would follow but they are not, they are an agency, and they do many things extremely well but in my opinion this wasn't one of them. "
Hopefully those who advocated these policies will refrain from doing so in the future--------------BigE
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
<< <i>I have to decide if I want to cancel my auctions that end tomorrow or let them ride. Mine end at almost the exact same time... >>
Cancel 1/2, maybe MCM will bonus you for taking away some competing items
I will say this though ... (and this is just my humble opinion and with all due respect) ... it does appear to get very confusing for these buyers especially when they are relying on website posted prices and considering buying coins from websites right now while at the same time looking at ebay. A customer just came to me for a coin with a last sale off ebay of $2,500 on the particular PCGS ATB MS69DMPL coin and a posted website price of just under $2,400 for the same ATB coin (and he told me he was offered the coin for about $2,150 with "special website pricing"). He asked me if I could beat it. I asked him if $1,599 delivered with insured Express Mail would work for him as a final sale price keeping in mind that after the Sunday auctions one of us might be unhappy with that price level. He said my near 1/3 off discount proposal was fair and bought the coin, and I certainly hope I am the one that is unhappy with the sale on Monday morning. Perhaps all of these ebay coins will sell for very close to the levels respectable modern coin retailers are now asking from buyers on their websites. In the meantime, I have "slashed" all of my prices today to anyone taking the time to ask me for a PCGS coin, so if "epcjimi1" proves correct in his analysis, I should have some VERY happy customers come Monday!
Wondercoin
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Anyone who listens to me needs to seek numismatic help.
No doubt, the more there are, the less you pay.
There are APs still selling @ mint directive price. Yet, the secondary feebay market supports pucks @ apprx 40 - 50% over the mint directive price.
Let's see what happens on Mon - I'm not confident, but hopeful.
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this ... conversations like this are what make these message boards great in my view!
Wondercoin
Jessewvu - Why would you want to cancel the auctions closing tomorrow?
Wondercoin
<< <i>John: I remember that $4,495 NGC price and seeing sets selling on ebay for closer to $5,000 at the very same time ... there was, in fact, a comment I read (perhaps on this thread) about buying a set from MCM and reselling on ebay for a profit! But, I do not recall at that time if you were selling 6 or 7 NGC-MS69 complete sets on ebay at a penny opening bid (or whatever) all closing within an hour's time from each other, while you were selling the NGC sets at $4,495 on your website? Was that the case? If not, this PCGS situation is interesting as it appears to potentially be the "flipside" of that other scenario you refer to (i.e. possible (far) higher website asking levels around the country right now and far lower simultaneous ebay levels potentially coming tomorrow).
Thanks for taking the time to discuss this ... conversations like this are what make these message boards great in my view!
Wondercoin >>
Yes, engaging and constructive. As I recall, at first we were only selling the NGC sets on the website. Perhaps a week later or more (light-years in ATB time) we sold some unreserved at auction. This time around we are selling them simultaneously on website and eBay as "testing of the waters" is no longer needed. I too enjoy the forums!
John
John Maben
Pegasus Coin and Jewelry (Brick and Mortar)
ANA LM, PNG, APMD, FUN, Etc
800-381-2646
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go?
I knew it would happen.
As long as we're strolling down memory lane, remember this auction? It was for one
of the first PCGS MS69 Grand Canyons. At the time, the NGC versions were going for
only about a third of this.
si=mszYMg8iak2OPY073YtdEjRbbbw%253D">early PCGS MS69
Hard to believe that was only about 6 weeks ago. And when you pull this up, what's
really shocking is to see just below this listing what the current prices are for this
coin. Experience is a dear teacher.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i> I think this is the bottom for 2010 pucks.
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go? >>
they were probably sold on TV
Grand Canyon
504968 MS 1
506572 PL 0
506573 DMPL 1
505103 First Strike MS 103
506574 First Strike PL 32
506575 First Strike DMPL 11
Hot Springs
504965 MS 0
506576 PL 0
506577 DMPL 0
505100 First Strike MS 66
506578 First Strike PL 46
506579 First Strike DMPL 35
Mount Hood
504969 MS 1
506580 PL 0
506581 DMPL 0
505104 First Strike MS 61
506582 First Strike PL 54
506583 First Strike DMPL 19
Yellowstone
504966 MS 1
506584 PL 0
506585 DMPL 0
505101 First Strike MS 63
506586 First Strike PL 61
506587 First Strike DMPL 6
Yosemite
504967 MS 0
506588 PL 0
506589 DMPL 0
505102 First Strike MS 54
506590 First Strike PL 45
506591 First Strike DMPL 23
<< <i>here are the pop's in 69 as of 3-12-11:
Grand Canyon
504968 MS 1
506572 PL 0
506573 DMPL 1
505103 First Strike MS 103
506574 First Strike PL 32
506575 First Strike DMPL 11
Hot Springs
504965 MS 0
506576 PL 0
506577 DMPL 0
505100 First Strike MS 66
506578 First Strike PL 46
506579 First Strike DMPL 35
Mount Hood
504969 MS 1
506580 PL 0
506581 DMPL 0
505104 First Strike MS 61
506582 First Strike PL 54
506583 First Strike DMPL 19
Yellowstone
504966 MS 1
506584 PL 0
506585 DMPL 0
505101 First Strike MS 63
506586 First Strike PL 61
506587 First Strike DMPL 6
Yosemite
504967 MS 0
506588 PL 0
506589 DMPL 0
505102 First Strike MS 54
506590 First Strike PL 45
506591 First Strike DMPL 23 >>
Doesn't look like 69`s are flowing like water but sure seems to be more than that for sale on ebay
As far as who's to blame for this fiasco I'm all for harpooning the Mint. But, this all could have been averted, as most man made disasters can be, if a couple early opportunities had been taken advantage of.
#1 occurred when Congress laid out the coin specs without consulting the Mint. Check with the Mint prior to finalization of the bill and we're looking at a smaller dia and 100,000 sets.
#2 happened when the Mint tried to fab the 3" dia coins, ran into major headaches and Moy went back to Congress asking for authorization to produce a smaller dia coin. Congress declined. Missed that chance to keep the train on the tracks.
The Mint then took over screwing things up from there on.
And Apmex? They were just the messenger. And they usually get shot.
And as far as the UNC versions go I think they got it bass ackward. The bullion ATBs that we all know and love should have had a matte finish on both sides like the bullion Eagles or the 5 oz Libertads with the UNCs having a PL finish.
Also, I have to wonder if the Mint is going to go ahead and start down the path with a UNC version they are not required to make. What happens a year or so down the road and the silver thing gets to the point that getting out the bullion versions if everything is a challenge? Are they going to skip a year of UNC ATBs? How would that work?
I do want a 2010 UNC set though.
<< <i>
<< <i> I think this is the bottom for 2010 pucks.
Before I called a bottom for the 2010 pucks, I'd want to know the status of the pucks that are still unaccounted for. Were the pucks from Dillon Gage, Gold Center, Coins 'n Things, Prudential, Jack Hunt, and Apmex all distributed, or are most of those still sitting on the sidelines. From the outside, looking in - it sure looks to me that as many as 1/2 of the 2010 pucks are still in limbo. If not, where did they go? >>
they were probably sold on TV
I like the "They're in private vaults" explanation. Gotta remember these APs have
a lot of wealthy clients. And judging by the dramatic drop in February ASE sales
announced by The Mint (down 50% from January), I suspect their clients chose to
spend their bullion dollars on these.
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
I agree! The big boys have loads of these things instead of silver eagles. They are just bullion to them and a great investment. It is all in who
you know and how much money you have.
hint: this(in my eyes) was the worst coin in my fidelitrade set.
<< <i>Nevermind. I was just ranting about how I'd like to own a Grand Canyon in .9999 gold, that is all. Admit it...You would too
well we all like gold but.....
these are the next best thing!!!