That set was a gift. Ironic that you stopped buying there and surprising how you characterize it now.
That's how Deihl characterized it. That's how you characterize it. That's not how I characterized it in my letters to the Editor of Coin World then, and that's not how I characterize it now.
Deihl characterized it as a "gift" because you could theoretically buy the set and dump the gold, in order to net out the 1995-W for $200. That didn't reward the loyal customers who had bought the Proof ASEs for years - it only rewarded the ones who were buying Proof AGE sets. I simply took that lesson to heart.
What do you think is ironic about my characterization? The fact that I totally discount what the Mint should do now, and instead - speculate on what I think that the Mint will do?
That fiasco, and what I learned from it - have netted me some *very* nice gains ever since. That's not too ironic. I'm just offering some observations that have seemed to work for me.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice.
<< <i>Great post, 7/8. As an investor, I simply have to shake my head and marvel at the mindless participation by those who don't know what they are buying and selling. I was just reading in ericj's book again this morning, and I was reflecting on his suggestion that Modern Bullion is a great way to limit your risk while mining for the new Keys. >>
What book would that be?
Great BST experiences: abitofthisabitofthat, silvercoinsdude, gerard, coinfame, mikescoins, wondercoin
Ironically, the book is entitled, "Modern Commemorative Coins, Invest Today Profit Tomorrow" by Eric Jordan, published by Krause Publications. It's worth the read. Eric does a very good job of analyzing the market dynamics for Moderns.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
Ok....since the last "guess the date of the 1st date of Puck sale" is closed and waiting for a winner I am getting bored.....so.....what if I offer another 2008-W ASE in the original Mint box to the person who can guess the total cost of the SET of pucks from the Mint (excluding shipping costs)
If they are offered only as singles then that price will be X 5 for the contest. If in a set then that price will be used. If only one puck is announced initially then the total will be 5 X that price.
Closest will win...over/under doesn't matter.
If duplicate winning guesses happen, the 1st guess will take the silver.
Contest ONLY open to those who have posted on this APMEX/Puck thread before 11am est 2/3/11. Other wannabees will be eliminated.
Use this link to post your guess (TOTAL price of 5 coins) and
<<Ok....since the last "guess the date of the 1st date of Puck sale" is closed and waiting for a winner I am getting bored.....so.....what if I offer another 2008-W ASE in the original Mint box to the person who can guess the total cost of the SET of pucks from the Mint (excluding shipping costs)>>
What do you think is ironic about my characterization? The fact that I totally discount what the Mint should do now, and instead - speculate on what I think that the Mint will do?
That fiasco, and what I learned from it - have netted me some *very* nice gains ever since. That's not too ironic. I'm just offering some observations that have seemed to work for me. >>
Sorry. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I just found it ironic that you characterized the Mint issue of the most desired ASE proof coin as "screwing the faithful".
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
With all the talk about the impending lull in demand for pucks and the quickly dropping prices, it should be noted that the additional 500 or so sets from A-Mark still sold out in less than a 12 hrs. And that's with no advance notice. While I agree prices will continue to decline and eventually level off before beginning a steady rise it appears demand is still pretty high, at least among followers of this board. IMHO there are still many people out there that don't know anything about the 5 oz coins. A lot of people haven't even figured out that the Mint has moved on from the states program to the ATB program. I hope to get as many sets as possible direct from the APs and hold them. As many have already noted investing in the bullion alone should make it worthwhile.
<< <i>With all the talk about the impending lull in demand for pucks and the quickly dropping prices, it should be noted that the additional 500 or so sets from A-Mark still sold out in less than a 12 hrs.
Some flipper on this board must have notified all of his cousins in Kentucky about the 500.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
I just found it ironic that you characterized the Mint issue of the most desired ASE proof coin as "screwing the faithful".
To be more clear in my characterization, I faithfully ordered 15 Proof ASEs every year until 1995, but when it came time to be "rewarded", the Mint decided not to reward the regular Proof ASE customers, and Diehl acted like he was doing everyone a big favor by issuing a special coin in the most expensive set available at the time. In my way of thinking, that's not much of a reward for those who didn't have the money to play with. That's a slap in the face.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you.
<< <i> I just found it ironic that you characterized the Mint issue of the most desired ASE proof coin as "screwing the faithful".
To be more clear in my characterization, I faithfully ordered 15 Proof ASEs every year until 1995, but when it came time to be "rewarded", the Mint decided not to reward the regular Proof ASE customers, and Diehl acted like he was doing everyone a big favor by issuing a special coin in the most expensive set available at the time. In my way of thinking, that's not much of a reward for those who didn't have the money to play with. That's a slap in the face. >>
Consider this though. If he would have "rewarded" the faithfull ASE collectors as you wanted then that coin would have never been special. It would have been like the "W" dime- just an extra coin. Reminds me of the 20th anniversary AGE set. At first I said-wow, that is expensive-no way. Then I looked at the mintage and said-wellllll ok, even though it was expensive. I was "rewarded" by looking at the bigger picture instead of griping that the Mint should have made tons of reverse proofs and sold them individually.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike?
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I am pretty sure I read somewhere on this thread that it doesn't add to the value.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I am pretty sure I read somewhere on this thread that it doesn't add to the value. >>
Most likely. The machine doubling doesn't seem to get the collector base very excited for some reason. All kinds of machine malfunctions do but not that. I guess it is too common usually.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike? >>
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike? >>
I doubt it! >>
Please explain?
Here is my NGC rational: Out of 33k maybe only half have been released. So out of 16.5K only half are sent in for grading. So out of 8.25K lets say half went to NGC and half went to PCGS. That leaves about 4K that will ever get the NGC early release label.
Successful coin BST transactions with Gerard and segoja.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
Consider this though. If he would have "rewarded" the faithfull ASE collectors as you wanted then that coin would have never been special. It would have been like the "W" dime- just an extra coin.
I have considered it. It was a slap in the face of the very customers who had supported the Proof ASE program from the very beginning. The the Mint director was too self-absorbed to consider it himself.
Reminds me of the 20th anniversary AGE set. At first I said-wow, that is expensive-no way. Then I looked at the mintage and said-wellllll ok, even though it was expensive. I was "rewarded" by looking at the bigger picture instead of griping that the Mint should have made tons of reverse proofs and sold them individually.
You just made my exact point. And that's exactly the reason that I dug deep and bought 3 of the 3-Coin AGE Anniversary Sets. I did learn my lesson back in 1995 and I learned it well, as I pointed out earlier. I totally discounted what the Mint should have done, and instead - I speculated <<<correctly>>> about what I thought what the Mint was likely to do.
I'm sorry if this sounds argumentative, but my point is valid. I was trying to agree with 7/8's discussion a few pages back about what is likely to happen with the Pucks, and I agree with 7/8 that this is a classic case of what happens in the Modern Bullion market when a corrupt distribution system, an inept Mint, and a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok.
Q: Are You Printing Money? Bernanke: Not Literally
<< If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice. >>
Now now...can't we all just get along?
Like in college, all I want are ACCURATE grades...where do I go for them?
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I posted a pic of the doubling a couple of pages ago. There is also lesser doubling on the "Yellowstone"
Here it is again (sorry for the repeat for those who commented earlier)
<< <i><< If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC. If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS. Your choice. >>
Now now...can't we all just get along?
Like in college, all I want are ACCURATE grades...where do I go for them? >>
You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them.
<< <i>just a heads up if u are selling a set u may want to block terethings as he backed out of buying my set h paid and now is making excuses to get his money back even though he is still buying more items as of today >>
terethings bought my pre-sale Fidelitrade ATB's. Paid promptly. I've decided that I will not offer any refunds no matter what. If that means closing my ebay account, so be it. My auction ended 1/26/11. Paid $1802. What they pay for yours and was yours FT? >>
Pre-sales are dangerous and the ultimate "pump and dump". You can make some money there but there are a lot of risks. I never do the "pre-sale" thing. Imho, it's not that smart to do due to all the risks.
As for what the buyer did....he isn't in the right. However, your whole "I will not offer any refunds no matter what", esp on a pre-sale, is shortsighted. When was the sale concluded? Then, let's see if he would have had the set in hand within 30 days. If not, then YOU are wrong, according to ebay's TOS.
<< <i>.......and I agree with 7/8 that this is a classic case of what happens in the Modern Bullion market when a corrupt distribution system, an inept Mint, and a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok. >>
Well said, sir, well said. Amen!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
<< <i>Consider this though. If he would have "rewarded" the faithfull ASE collectors as you wanted then that coin would have never been special. It would have been like the "W" dime- just an extra coin.
I have considered it. It was a slap in the face of the very customers who had supported the Proof ASE program from the very beginning. The the Mint director was too self-absorbed to consider it himself.
If you consider it a "slap" then a slap it was to you. You still had the P version available in the usual way. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. On the pucks, the mintages will tell the story. If later issues come in with lower mintages then the Mint flubs, flippers, and corruption will just be a footnote. If they hold up as the key then so will the values.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
$1576 for a just ended Sealed MTB set (absurd time to end an auction) nontheless, to think that this same set brought $3800 and $4000 just a few weeks ago....
<< <i>$1576 for a just ended Sealed MTB set (absurd time to end an auction) nontheless, to think that this same set brought $3800 and $4000 just a few weeks ago.... >>
Must be a conspiracy to end auctions at a bad time so that flippers will percieve that the prices are going down to scare them into selling theirs cheap. Brilliant.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them. >>
If what you said was true, then you'd get the same grades regardless of where you sent them. Those-in-the-know on grading of moderns at NGC and PCGS will tell you that coins will NOT always grade the same at both companies. PCGS usually commands a premium because PCGS is more conservative.
Both companies can't be "accurate" and hand out different grades.
With all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments that was going on here when these sets started showing up in bulk on the coin shopping channels, those that were able to get their sets from an AP and got them sold early may owe them a great debt of thanks. They were the ones that took these sets from $1500 (APMEX price) to the $4000+ price they were selling. eBay prices went from $1750 to $3000 in a week.
<< <i>With all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments that was going on here when these sets started showing up in bulk on the coin shopping channels, those that were able to get their sets from an AP and got them sold early may owe them a great debt of thanks. They were the ones that took these sets from $1500 (APMEX price) to the $4000+ price they were selling. eBay prices went from $1750 to $3000 in a week. >>
And they owe an apology to those who bought them for 3-4k.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
No one can predict where these sets will end up at this point, they could skyrocket again. When the Mint releases the collector version along with the hype and mad rush confusion anything could happen. Its going to be great to have a front row seat and enjoy the show----------BigE
<< <i>You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them. >>
If what you said was true, then you'd get the same grades regardless of where you sent them. Those-in-the-know on grading of moderns at NGC and PCGS will tell you that coins will NOT always grade the same at both companies. PCGS usually commands a premium because PCGS is more conservative.
Both companies can't be "accurate" and hand out different grades. >>
Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one???
I guess the way I look at this whole deal is that I was ready to buy 5 sets from Apmex for $1395. I now have 3 sets with the most being $970. I'll keep buying and putting away. Funny how people are so easily shaken out. Guess it depends mostly on source of funds. Investment money or lunch money.
<< <i>I guess the way I look at this whole deal is that I was ready to buy 5 sets from Apmex for $1395. I now have 3 sets with the most being $970. I'll keep buying and putting away. Funny how people are so easily shaken out. Guess it depends mostly on source of funds. Investment money or lunch money. >>
First:
Second: I see little downside potential IF you buy at the AP price. Buying a set for $2900 raw was not a smart move......Top grade you have an valid argument
<< <i>just a heads up if u are selling a set u may want to block terethings as he backed out of buying my set h paid and now is making excuses to get his money back even though he is still buying more items as of today >>
terethings bought my pre-sale Fidelitrade ATB's. Paid promptly. I've decided that I will not offer any refunds no matter what. If that means closing my ebay account, so be it. My auction ended 1/26/11. Paid $1802. What they pay for yours and was yours FT? >>
$1850 ft problem with that is if u dont give a refund paypal will turn u over to collections ....say goodbuy to your credit score
<< <i>Sorry for the above...won't let me edit so here's the pic:
>>
Seems like if it is doubled die then it should be worth a premium as a genuine error? >>
Yes, a doubled die would be worth more (and would have lots of others exactly like it), because a doubled die is a die with doubling on the die, and on every coin struck from that die.
But this is not a doubled die, (the die is not doubled). It is a machine or strike doubling, in that it is generated by one of the second (or in some cases third) strikes. These pucks are to big to handle the metals moving around under all that pressure.
Here is a guy on FeeBay selling one as if it were a Doubled Die.
<< <i>Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one??? >>
Because it could be assumed that the low-grader saw something the high-grader didn't see or ignored, or used a lower standard. Of course, mistakes are always possible.
for all the sellers who have the ebay buyer backing out my deal for him was i will give him a refund minus 150.00 to cover some of the loss i will take when i resell it aswell as agree to cancel the auction to get fees back and ask for feedback prior to giving any refund so he dosent negative ya ...i suggest u all do along the same lines as he is in the wrong and he knows it
<< <i>Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one??? >>
Because it could be assumed that the low-grader saw something the high-grader didn't see or ignored, or used a lower standard. Of course, mistakes are always possible. >>
And it could also be assumed that one company has a duty to keep the 70 pops low so they cannot exceed a certain percentage of perfect grades...."Created Value"
I remember when the top company refused to give ASE's a grade of 70 because of "potential" spotting problems. Minimize their exposure to their grade guarantee....
<< <i>for all the sellers who have the ebay buyer backing out my deal for him was i will give him a refund minus 150.00 to cover some of the loss i will take when i resell it aswell as agree to cancel the auction to get fees back and ask for feedback prior to giving any refund so he dosent negative ya ...i suggest u all do along the same lines as he is in the wrong and he knows it >>
The weenie that hit my BIN of $2895 and then fabricated a SNAD claim took $300 as an extortion fee but, in the end, it was still a good sale price
Therein lies the problem. A FLIPPER dominated issue generally does not result in many being put away or saved for collections - but rather sold as soon as possible - th old PUMP and DUMP.
But doesn't the act of selling intell moving the set into stronger heads? Invoking a stronger will to 'put away' their set, thus removing the set from the current market.
btw, How many within this thread are buying above AP price? Not many if any I'd bet. I believe we are a group that understands the pricing structure and are willing to take the risk of an AP purchase for a meager double digit percentage flip.. We know the price will fall, but doubtful not below the AP price. Unless you know something we don't. Many of use have traveled this flipping road before from the 99sq silvers through the 01 Buffs, 06ASE-AGE-APE, 07/08, and the 08 buff 4pc. All these had similar flags, whether its one year only, mint errors, first ever, or product issues. This issue has a couple of these at the moment, and I believe like others this series will fall within the collecting reach of a large and 'still spending' collector base. I've done my research, made a plan, I'm in. Let them eat cake. We moaned on and on this coin game is not for the faint of heart. We've all been burned, made nice rips, had some flips and it won't stop when 'a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok.'. Which btw was really funny Along with ever so true jmski's "Special Rule of Mint Fiascos". The rule goes something like this, "if the Mint screws up badly and the whole thing stinks, because of pricing, unfairness in distribution, insider deals, Congressional stupidity or Mint ineptitude - BE SURE to hold your nose and DOUBLE DOWN."
But doesn't the act of selling intell moving the set into stronger heads? Invoking a stronger will to 'put away' their set, thus removing the set from the current market.
Whose buying these sets at $1500 on ebay right now? Flippers or true collectors? I doubt the flippers.
<< <i>Sorry for the above...won't let me edit so here's the pic:
Seems like if it is doubled die then it should be worth a premium as a genuine error? >>
Yes, a doubled die would be worth more (and would have lots of others exactly like it), because a doubled die is a die with doubling on the die, and on every coin struck from that die.
But this is not a doubled die, (the die is not doubled). It is a machine or strike doubling, in that it is generated by one of the second (or in some cases third) strikes. These pucks are to big to handle the metals moving around under all that pressure.
Here is a guy on FeeBay selling one as if it were a Doubled Die.
I'm now on the fence about getting these graded right away and may just put them away. In that case I will need a capsule for the FideliTrade one that are not going to be in a capsule. Has anyone ever used air-tites.com? They have a new size to fit the 3" coins. Are these a good option? Here
<< <i>I'm now on the fence about getting these graded right away and may just put them away. In that case I will need a capsule for the FideliTrade one that are not going to be in a capsule. Has anyone ever used air-tites.com? They have a new size to fit the 3" coins. Are these a good option? Here >>
If they look spectacular, I'd send 'em in for grades.
The air-tites are OK. The APMEX sets were my first experience with 'em. Seemed like they got dusty easily though.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< <i>I'm now on the fence about getting these graded right away and may just put them away. In that case I will need a capsule for the FideliTrade one that are not going to be in a capsule. Has anyone ever used air-tites.com? They have a new size to fit the 3" coins. Are these a good option? Here >>
They are not as strurdy as the mint caps, but I use them and like them. I have my Carr peace dollars in them. Not sure how the large ones would be, let us know
Comments
That's how Deihl characterized it. That's how you characterize it. That's not how I characterized it in my letters to the Editor of Coin World then, and that's not how I characterize it now.
Deihl characterized it as a "gift" because you could theoretically buy the set and dump the gold, in order to net out the 1995-W for $200. That didn't reward the loyal customers who had bought the Proof ASEs for years - it only rewarded the ones who were buying Proof AGE sets. I simply took that lesson to heart.
What do you think is ironic about my characterization? The fact that I totally discount what the Mint should do now, and instead - speculate on what I think that the Mint will do?
That fiasco, and what I learned from it - have netted me some *very* nice gains ever since. That's not too ironic. I'm just offering some observations that have seemed to work for me.
I knew it would happen.
If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice.
<< <i>Great post, 7/8. As an investor, I simply have to shake my head and marvel at the mindless participation by those who don't know what they are buying and selling. I was just reading in ericj's book again this morning, and I was reflecting on his suggestion that Modern Bullion is a great way to limit your risk while mining for the new Keys. >>
What book would that be?
I knew it would happen.
If they are offered only as singles then that price will be X 5 for the contest. If in a set then that price will be used. If only one puck is announced initially then the total will be 5 X that price.
Closest will win...over/under doesn't matter.
If duplicate winning guesses happen, the 1st guess will take the silver.
Contest ONLY open to those who have posted on this APMEX/Puck thread before 11am est 2/3/11. Other wannabees will be eliminated.
Use this link to post your guess (TOTAL price of 5 coins) and
Puck Price
Please put me down for $1,399.99
That fiasco, and what I learned from it - have netted me some *very* nice gains ever since. That's not too ironic. I'm just offering some observations that have seemed to work for me. >>
Sorry. I think I misunderstood what you were saying. I just found it ironic that you characterized the Mint issue of the most desired ASE proof coin as "screwing the faithful".
<< <i>With all the talk about the impending lull in demand for pucks and the quickly dropping prices, it should be noted that the additional 500 or so sets from A-Mark still sold out in less than a 12 hrs.
Some flipper on this board must have notified all of his cousins in Kentucky about the 500.
To be more clear in my characterization, I faithfully ordered 15 Proof ASEs every year until 1995, but when it came time to be "rewarded", the Mint decided not to reward the regular Proof ASE customers, and Diehl acted like he was doing everyone a big favor by issuing a special coin in the most expensive set available at the time. In my way of thinking, that's not much of a reward for those who didn't have the money to play with. That's a slap in the face.
I knew it would happen.
<< <i> I just found it ironic that you characterized the Mint issue of the most desired ASE proof coin as "screwing the faithful".
To be more clear in my characterization, I faithfully ordered 15 Proof ASEs every year until 1995, but when it came time to be "rewarded", the Mint decided not to reward the regular Proof ASE customers, and Diehl acted like he was doing everyone a big favor by issuing a special coin in the most expensive set available at the time. In my way of thinking, that's not much of a reward for those who didn't have the money to play with. That's a slap in the face. >>
Consider this though. If he would have "rewarded" the faithfull ASE collectors as you wanted then that coin would have never been special. It would have been like the "W" dime- just an extra coin. Reminds me of the 20th anniversary AGE set. At first I said-wow, that is expensive-no way. Then I looked at the mintage and said-wellllll ok, even though it was expensive. I was "rewarded" by looking at the bigger picture instead of griping that the Mint should have made tons of reverse proofs and sold them individually.
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike?
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I am pretty sure I read somewhere on this thread that it doesn't add to the value.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
<< <i>
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I am pretty sure I read somewhere on this thread that it doesn't add to the value. >>
Most likely. The machine doubling doesn't seem to get the collector base very excited for some reason. All kinds of machine malfunctions do but not that. I guess it is too common usually.
<< <i>
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike? >>
I doubt it!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice. >>
I understand that is typically the case but don't you think the NGC early release will have a nice premium since they will not be that many compared to PCGS first strike? >>
I doubt it! >>
Please explain?
Here is my NGC rational: Out of 33k maybe only half have been released. So out of 16.5K only half are sent in for grading. So out of 8.25K lets say half went to NGC and half went to PCGS. That leaves about 4K that will ever get the NGC early release label.
Successful card BST transactions with cbcnow, brogurt, gstarling, Bravesfan 007, and rajah 424.
I have considered it. It was a slap in the face of the very customers who had supported the Proof ASE program from the very beginning. The the Mint director was too self-absorbed to consider it himself.
Reminds me of the 20th anniversary AGE set. At first I said-wow, that is expensive-no way. Then I looked at the mintage and said-wellllll ok, even though it was expensive. I was "rewarded" by looking at the bigger picture instead of griping that the Mint should have made tons of reverse proofs and sold them individually.
You just made my exact point. And that's exactly the reason that I dug deep and bought 3 of the 3-Coin AGE Anniversary Sets. I did learn my lesson back in 1995 and I learned it well, as I pointed out earlier. I totally discounted what the Mint should have done, and instead - I speculated <<<correctly>>> about what I thought what the Mint was likely to do.
I'm sorry if this sounds argumentative, but my point is valid. I was trying to agree with 7/8's discussion a few pages back about what is likely to happen with the Pucks, and I agree with 7/8 that this is a classic case of what happens in the Modern Bullion market when a corrupt distribution system, an inept Mint, and a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok.
I knew it would happen.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice. >>
Now now...can't we all just get along?
Like in college, all I want are ACCURATE grades...where do I go for them?
<< <i>I was just looking at my Amark set and found a doubling on the words "E Pluribus Unum" on the Yellowstone coin just using a magnifying glass. I looked at it with a 17x and found a nice strong doubling. Would it be worth anything more? I thought about selling the set. I don't have a camera to take a pic to show you. >>
I posted a pic of the doubling a couple of pages ago. There is also lesser doubling on the "Yellowstone"
Here it is again (sorry for the repeat for those who commented earlier)
">E Doublus Unum
<< <i><< If you want higher grades but lower resale value unless you get a PL then go with NGC.
If you want lower grades but higher resale value then go with PCGS.
Your choice. >>
Now now...can't we all just get along?
Like in college, all I want are ACCURATE grades...where do I go for them? >>
You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them.
<< <i>
<< <i>just a heads up if u are selling a set u may want to block terethings as he backed out of buying my set h paid and now is making excuses to get his money back even though he is still buying more items as of today >>
terethings bought my pre-sale Fidelitrade ATB's. Paid promptly. I've decided that I will not offer any refunds no matter what. If that means closing my ebay account, so be it. My auction ended 1/26/11. Paid $1802. What they pay for yours and was yours FT? >>
Pre-sales are dangerous and the ultimate "pump and dump". You can make some money there but there are a lot of risks.
I never do the "pre-sale" thing. Imho, it's not that smart to do due to all the risks.
As for what the buyer did....he isn't in the right. However, your whole "I will not offer any refunds no matter what", esp on a pre-sale, is shortsighted. When was the sale concluded? Then, let's see if he would have had the set in hand within 30 days. If not, then YOU are wrong, according to ebay's TOS.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Sorry for the above...won't let me edit so here's the pic:
Seems like if it is doubled die then it should be worth a premium as a genuine error?
<< <i>.......and I agree with 7/8 that this is a classic case of what happens in the Modern Bullion market when a corrupt distribution system, an inept Mint, and a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok. >>
Well said, sir, well said. Amen!
"The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary."
~ Vince Lombardi
<< <i>Consider this though. If he would have "rewarded" the faithfull ASE collectors as you wanted then that coin would have never been special. It would have been like the "W" dime- just an extra coin.
I have considered it. It was a slap in the face of the very customers who had supported the Proof ASE program from the very beginning. The the Mint director was too self-absorbed to consider it himself.
If you consider it a "slap" then a slap it was to you. You still had the P version available in the usual way. That doesn't seem that unreasonable to me. On the pucks, the mintages will tell the story. If later issues come in with lower mintages then the Mint flubs, flippers, and corruption will just be a footnote. If they hold up as the key then so will the values.
<< <i>$1576 for a just ended Sealed MTB set (absurd time to end an auction) nontheless, to think that this same set brought $3800 and $4000 just a few weeks ago.... >>
Must be a conspiracy to end auctions at a bad time so that flippers will percieve that the prices are going down to scare them into selling theirs cheap. Brilliant.
I would no pay $1576 for a set of these at this time.
Maybe down the line, but not right now.
<< <i>You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them. >>
If what you said was true, then you'd get the same grades regardless of where you sent them. Those-in-the-know on grading of moderns at NGC and PCGS will tell you that coins will NOT always grade the same at both companies. PCGS usually commands a premium because PCGS is more conservative.
Both companies can't be "accurate" and hand out different grades.
<< <i>With all the gnashing of teeth and rending of garments that was going on here when these sets started showing up in bulk on the coin shopping channels, those that were able to get their sets from an AP and got them sold early may owe them a great debt of thanks. They were the ones that took these sets from $1500 (APMEX price) to the $4000+ price they were selling. eBay prices went from $1750 to $3000 in a week. >>
And they owe an apology to those who bought them for 3-4k.
<< <i>
<< <i>You will get accurate grades from PCGS,ANACS, or NGC but you will not get the same prices when you go to sell them. >>
If what you said was true, then you'd get the same grades regardless of where you sent them. Those-in-the-know on grading of moderns at NGC and PCGS will tell you that coins will NOT always grade the same at both companies. PCGS usually commands a premium because PCGS is more conservative.
Both companies can't be "accurate" and hand out different grades. >>
Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one???
<< <i>I guess the way I look at this whole deal is that I was ready to buy 5 sets from Apmex for $1395. I now have 3 sets with the most being $970. I'll keep buying and putting away. Funny how people are so easily shaken out. Guess it depends mostly on source of funds. Investment money or lunch money. >>
First:
Second: I see little downside potential IF you buy at the AP price. Buying a set for $2900 raw was not a smart move......Top grade you have an valid argument
Anyone have any predictions on how long it will take the Mint to sell out on Day 1 of the Big Puck Sales Event?
I say 5 hours.
<< <i>
<< <i>just a heads up if u are selling a set u may want to block terethings as he backed out of buying my set h paid and now is making excuses to get his money back even though he is still buying more items as of today >>
terethings bought my pre-sale Fidelitrade ATB's. Paid promptly. I've decided that I will not offer any refunds no matter what. If that means closing my ebay account, so be it. My auction ended 1/26/11. Paid $1802. What they pay for yours and was yours FT? >>
$1850 ft problem with that is if u dont give a refund paypal will turn u over to collections ....say goodbuy to your credit score
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<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry for the above...won't let me edit so here's the pic:
Seems like if it is doubled die then it should be worth a premium as a genuine error? >>
Yes, a doubled die would be worth more (and would have lots of others exactly like it), because a doubled die is a die with doubling on the die, and on every coin struck from that die.
But this is not a doubled die, (the die is not doubled). It is a machine or strike doubling, in that it is generated by one of the second (or in some cases third) strikes. These pucks are to big to handle the metals moving around under all that pressure.
Here is a guy on FeeBay selling one as if it were a Doubled Die.
FleaBay DDO
Here is the article from Ken Potter
NN Article from Ken Potter re: ATB Doubling
Here are some of my pics of doubling (sorry for the re-post if you have seen these already)....
<< <i>Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one??? >>
Because it could be assumed that the low-grader saw something the high-grader didn't see or ignored, or used a lower standard. Of course, mistakes are always possible.
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<< <i>
<< <i>Correct.....but why is the lower grade always perceived to be the "accurate" one??? >>
Because it could be assumed that the low-grader saw something the high-grader didn't see or ignored, or used a lower standard. Of course, mistakes are always possible. >>
And it could also be assumed that one company has a duty to keep the 70 pops low so they cannot exceed a certain percentage of perfect grades...."Created Value"
I remember when the top company refused to give ASE's a grade of 70 because of "potential" spotting problems. Minimize their exposure to their grade guarantee....
Bogus and corrected eventually....
<< <i>for all the sellers who have the ebay buyer backing out my deal for him was i will give him a refund minus 150.00 to cover some of the loss i will take when i resell it aswell as agree to cancel the auction to get fees back and ask for feedback prior to giving any refund so he dosent negative ya ...i suggest u all do along the same lines as he is in the wrong and he knows it >>
The weenie that hit my BIN of $2895 and then fabricated a SNAD claim took $300 as an extortion fee but, in the end, it was still a good sale price
But doesn't the act of selling intell moving the set into stronger heads? Invoking a stronger will to 'put away' their set, thus removing the set from the current market.
btw, How many within this thread are buying above AP price? Not many if any I'd bet. I believe we are a group that understands the pricing structure and are willing to take the risk of an AP purchase for a meager double digit percentage flip.. We know the price will fall, but doubtful not below the AP price. Unless you know something we don't. Many of use have traveled this flipping road before from the 99sq silvers through the 01 Buffs, 06ASE-AGE-APE, 07/08, and the 08 buff 4pc. All these had similar flags, whether its one year only, mint errors, first ever, or product issues. This issue has a couple of these at the moment, and I believe like others this series will fall within the collecting reach of a large and 'still spending' collector base. I've done my research, made a plan, I'm in. Let them eat cake. We moaned on and on this coin game is not for the faint of heart. We've all been burned, made nice rips, had some flips and it won't stop when 'a bunch of clueless i-pod and gameboy flippers start running amok.'. Which btw was really funny
But doesn't the act of selling intell moving the set into stronger heads? Invoking a stronger will to 'put away' their set, thus removing the set from the current market.
Whose buying these sets at $1500 on ebay right now? Flippers or true collectors? I doubt the flippers.
Box of 20
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Sorry for the above...won't let me edit so here's the pic:
Seems like if it is doubled die then it should be worth a premium as a genuine error? >>
Yes, a doubled die would be worth more (and would have lots of others exactly like it), because a doubled die is a die with doubling on the die, and on every coin struck from that die.
But this is not a doubled die, (the die is not doubled). It is a machine or strike doubling, in that it is generated by one of the second (or in some cases third) strikes. These pucks are to big to handle the metals moving around under all that pressure.
Here is a guy on FeeBay selling one as if it were a Doubled Die.
FleaBay DDO
Here is the article from Ken Potter
NN Article from Ken Potter re: ATB Doubling
Here are some of my pics of doubling (sorry for the re-post if you have seen these already).... >>
NICE PICS! can see splits in the serif
<< <i>I'm now on the fence about getting these graded right away and may just put them away. In that case I will need a capsule for the FideliTrade one that are not going to be in a capsule. Has anyone ever used air-tites.com? They have a new size to fit the 3" coins. Are these a good option? Here >>
If they look spectacular, I'd send 'em in for grades.
The air-tites are OK. The APMEX sets were my first experience with 'em. Seemed like they got dusty easily though.
<< <i>I'm now on the fence about getting these graded right away and may just put them away. In that case I will need a capsule for the FideliTrade one that are not going to be in a capsule. Has anyone ever used air-tites.com? They have a new size to fit the 3" coins. Are these a good option? Here >>
They are not as strurdy as the mint caps, but I use them and like them. I have my Carr peace dollars in them. Not sure how the large ones would be, let us know