BIN's are taking over on FEEBAY...no more cheap vintage good PSA 8's on FEEBAY!!!
chaz43
Posts: 2,140 ✭✭✭
I see the days where you cheap bargain hunting dealers and buyers (and you know who you are) hunting for good PSA 8 vintage late 50's , 60's and early 70's .....those days are numbered on feebay cause I see that dealers aren't taking that crap and a beating anymore cause they need the money quick which drives down prices. Dealers through BIN's and fixed pricing aren't taking $12.50 for a good PSA 8 1973 Topps football card for example ...they are doing BIN's for $30.00 which is what the card is worth(and has sold for in the past for 30 bucks) and they are willing to wait to get it..... times they are a changin' ..... chaz
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Comments
<< <i>Or could they be the dealers who purchased the card for $12.50 and re-listed it for $30.00 thinking that the card is worth $30.00 when it is really worth closer to $12.50? >>
NO, just look in PSA 8 alot of auctions for really good cards are drying up, dealers aren't taking a beating anymore...look at al the BIN's and they are getting their price or near it...things are changing...just ask Storm.....
<< <i>lol, if you mean that dealers are willing to put prices above what the market will bear and sit on stuff then yes, that is happening. It doesn't mean that a $30 card is or will remain a $30 card. The problem is that sellers don't want to work for a profit. They have either bought too high or they don't know how to sell. If you want good examples of what buying right and properly selling are I will gladly give you some. >>
Give me some ideas...just look at all the BIN's...auctions are drying up!!! on FEEBAY....chaz
"Molon Labe"
Exactly...
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
This is known as “bad luck.”
<< <i>A good 1973 PSA 8 card is worth exactly what the market will pay, not what it "used to" sell for or what a price guide says.
Exactly... >>
that sounds nice, but chaz has a very valid point and one I have said over and over here the past year. People who have to earn a living seling sportscards will not last going off the old no reserve ebay auctions for vintage 50's and 60's high grade cards(at least PSA 7) and continue to lose money and alot of time doing so.
No one involved in this market wants to support it, they are just looking to buy it cheaper than the next guy and then justify why their stuff is so great if/when it comes time to sell.
<< <i>One might argue that a robust, active and liquid market provides the best opportunity for price appreciation. And, that a market dominated by over priced BIN's damages the overall market potential by driving demand away. Thus, when there finally is a normal auction, there ends up being tepid demand (i.e. lower realized prices). The end result, for a dealer, is what's known as Inventory Holding Losses. Its typically seen in businesses dealing with fungible goods like ag commodities, metals, etc. A dealer should be focused on maximizing inventory turns, especially in a declining price environment, not on price maximization. How many dealers now wish they had focused on inventory turns 2 years ago or even a year ago and sold at prevailing market prices then vs holding on to inventory which has continued to decline in price? >>
I was just saying the exact same thing to a friend....although not quite like that. I suppose the problem with this is the product limit is likely at best 80% it was. So, this could would only work for a small percent.
Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
<< <i>
<< <i>A good 1973 PSA 8 card is worth exactly what the market will pay, not what it "used to" sell for or what a price guide says.
Exactly... >>
that sounds nice, but chaz has a very valid point and one I have said over and over here the past year. People who have to earn a living seling sportscards will not last going off the old no reserve ebay auctions for vintage 50's and 60's high grade cards(at least PSA 7) and continue to lose money and alot of time doing so.
No one involved in this market wants to support it, they are just looking to buy it cheaper than the next guy and then justify why their stuff is so great if/when it comes time to sell. >>
The ones making the real money are the companies printing the cards and the ones slabbing them.
A card is only worth what people are willing to pay and that price has been driven down even more by companies (like PSA, for example) who offer grading for $5 or less. As a buyer I ask myself, "can I get this card raw and sub it for less than this BIN?" For modern cards, almost always the answer is yes. I remember building my Bossy sets and seeing dealers advertising "low pop" cards -- I paid a premium for those grades and learned the hard way when they, very soon, became high pop cards. To ask what I paid for them would closely reflect the prices people are asking in their BINs -- way too much. The premium on almost all modern graded cards is over. For those finding these "great deals" currently on eBay should realize that these are no deals at all, but instead about what they are worth.
EBAY Listing Counts.........
Total PSA Cards: 203,043
Auctions: 23,297
BINs: 180,949
Total PSA Baseball Cards: 139,191
Auctions: 14,154
BINs: 125,630
Total PSA Football Cards: 35,169
Auctions: 5,344
BINs: 30,228
Total PSA Non-Sports Cards: 1,838
Auctions: 48
BINs: 1,790
LOTS of card sellers have LOTS of cash.
If their BINs sell, fine; if not, fine. They won't give their stuff away
via ill-attended auctions. IF they have to sit on their stuff thru the
coming DEPRESSION, they can afford to do it.
.....................
Listing Counts: November 15, 2010
eBay 111,954,240 97887
eCrater 3,843,517
Bonanzle 3,469,711
...................................................
ETSY.com is kicking butt for folks who know how to "make stuff."
October 2009 Dollar Sales $17.7 million
October 2010 Dollar Sales $29.9 million
+69%
October 2009 Unit Sales 1,065,475
October 2010 Unit Sales 1,677,986
+57%
New Listings October 2009 1,659,220
New Listings October 2010 2,452,359
+48%
New Members October 2009 203,012
New Members October 2010 322,466
+59%
Page Views October 2009 610,284,313
Page Views October 2010 842,291,766
+38%
During hardtimes, homemade rocks.
I buy a lot of subbed cards becuase of the sets I am working on if I already have 15 of a card and only have a card in a 7, I will pay a large premium for a 9 or higher becuase I know the chances of me finding one raw are slim.
A few weeks ago someone mentioned the snipe bids affecting auctions. I agree 100%. If selling say a $50 card and the auction is at $8.50 with four hours to go, I can understand a seller getting concerned. I think if you have liquid items like a Jordan Rookie, or Gretzky or some other major hobby card you let them fly. The market will find the right price. But if you have some cards that are not that strong then the BIN is a great option.
Some of the lose wrestling singles I buy will sell many times for four to five times what they might go for in an auction using a BIN. A buy it now is a purchase decision and has much less emotion affecting the purchase. An auction lasts for days and a buyer can become attached to the card before ownership and many times drive the price much higher then they would have paid with a BIN. Unfortunately though many times it is the opposite for a seller and the card goes for much less then they would have even been comfortable selling it at.
I looked through the entire lot of auctions from the SCP auction and the one true benifit to an auction is a card or piece of memorabilla can go for way more then you would have thought to put a BIN offer at.
The bottom line is the market for most sports cards is soft unless you have a very rare item that a lot of people want.
<< <i>A good 1973 PSA 8 card is worth exactly what the market will pay, not what it "used to" sell for or what a price guide says. >>
Bull. chaz
<< <i>One might argue that a robust, active and liquid market provides the best opportunity for price appreciation. And, that a market dominated by over priced BIN's damages the overall market potential by driving demand away. Thus, when there finally is a normal auction, there ends up being tepid demand (i.e. lower realized prices). The end result, for a dealer, is what's known as Inventory Holding Losses. Its typically seen in businesses dealing with fungible goods like ag commodities, metals, etc. A dealer should be focused on maximizing inventory turns, especially in a declining price environment, not on price maximization. How many dealers now wish they had focused on inventory turns 2 years ago or even a year ago and sold at prevailing market prices then vs holding on to inventory which has continued to decline in price? >>
Bull mumbo jumbo...chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>A good 1973 PSA 8 card is worth exactly what the market will pay, not what it "used to" sell for or what a price guide says.
Exactly... >>
that sounds nice, but chaz has a very valid point and one I have said over and over here the past year. People who have to earn a living seling sportscards will not last going off the old no reserve ebay auctions for vintage 50's and 60's high grade cards(at least PSA 7) and continue to lose money and alot of time doing so.
No one involved in this market wants to support it, they are just looking to buy it cheaper than the next guy and then justify why their stuff is so great if/when it comes time to sell. >>
BRAVO!! chaz
<< <i>It only takes a one or two times of sellers getting burned with an auction with no buyers supporting it to turn away from them (the auctions). That is why you see an abundance of BIN's. True, the market IS supply vs demand, but it is also a catch-22. If the demand dries up, so will the supply..... >>
Demand will never dry up but supply is limited...chaz
I do 10 day auctions when I sell becuase on EBAY you need eyeballs and sometimes for whatever reason the right buyer is not looking during the small window the auction is running.
<< <i>I just listed about 65 PSA 8 1969 Topps FB PSA 8s with a 9.99 start price. >>
You are not using your head my freind...stop giving them away...my old eco prof said that if you are an eager seller you are going to LOSE!! chaz
<< <i>EBAY Listing Counts.........
Total PSA Cards: 203,043
Auctions: 23,297
BINs: 180,949
Total PSA Baseball Cards: 139,191
Auctions: 14,154
BINs: 125,630
Total PSA Football Cards: 35,169
Auctions: 5,344
BINs: 30,228
Total PSA Non-Sports Cards: 1,838
Auctions: 48
BINs: 1,790
LOTS of card sellers have LOTS of cash.
If their BINs sell, fine; if not, fine. They won't give their stuff away
via ill-attended auctions. IF they have to sit on their stuff thru the
coming DEPRESSION, they can afford to do it.
.....................
Listing Counts: November 15, 2010
eBay 111,954,240 97887
eCrater 3,843,517
Bonanzle 3,469,711
...................................................
ETSY.com is kicking butt for folks who know how to "make stuff."
October 2009 Dollar Sales $17.7 million
October 2010 Dollar Sales $29.9 million
+69%
October 2009 Unit Sales 1,065,475
October 2010 Unit Sales 1,677,986
+57%
New Listings October 2009 1,659,220
New Listings October 2010 2,452,359
+48%
New Members October 2009 203,012
New Members October 2010 322,466
+59%
Page Views October 2009 610,284,313
Page Views October 2010 842,291,766
+38%
During hardtimes, homemade rocks. >>
BRAVO STORM!!!!! chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>I just listed about 65 PSA 8 1969 Topps FB PSA 8s with a 9.99 start price. >>
You are not using your head my freind...stop giving them away...my old eco prof said that if you are an eager seller you are going to LOSE!! chaz >>
Maybe he set a reserve?
<< <i>bull. chaz
Bull mumbo jumbo...chaz >>
chaz is unwilling to accept that his cards have lost their premium.
<< <i>Ebay/BINs = virtual card museum/masoleum. >>
Bull. Ask Storm!!! chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>bull. chaz
Bull mumbo jumbo...chaz >>
chaz is unwilling to accept that his cards have lost their premium. >>
Bull. chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>bull. chaz
Bull mumbo jumbo...chaz >>
chaz is unwilling to accept that his cards have lost their premium. >>
Bull. chaz >>
The only people selling via auction on ebay are people that have VERY high demand items and can get top dollar or people who really need the money. Everyone else is wither losing money by selling it via auction or are now refusing to do so, instead waiting for a buyer to come who is willing to pay top dollar.
I would almost guarantee that the same people who think the average BIN on ebay is too high (And some are), are the same people who wont sell anything in their collection below "VCP" price. There is no absolute in card sales, Beckett, VCP, ebay "average" are completely meaningless.
For those that would rather have auctions return to ebay, here's how its done. Make all auctions 30 day, end sniping by extending any auction with a bid for 1 hour after the last bid was made and LOWER the freakin fees for auctions.
<< <i>I tell everyone this......let's see what these vintage cards go for on Robert Edwards upcoming auction. You might even see some cards that some lucky bidders were able to steal off of Ebay recently turn up on the spring REA auction (I know I will be looking for the high grade vintage that I have given away recently!!)..... >>
I grade this thread a PSA GEM MINT 10 with an (ST) qualifier.....
<< <i>One might argue that a robust, active and liquid market provides the best opportunity for price appreciation. And, that a market dominated by over priced BIN's damages the overall market potential by driving demand away. Thus, when there finally is a normal auction, there ends up being tepid demand (i.e. lower realized prices). The end result, for a dealer, is what's known as Inventory Holding Losses. Its typically seen in businesses dealing with fungible goods like ag commodities, metals, etc. A dealer should be focused on maximizing inventory turns, especially in a declining price environment, not on price maximization. How many dealers now wish they had focused on inventory turns 2 years ago or even a year ago and sold at prevailing market prices then vs holding on to inventory which has continued to decline in price? >>
Definitely not the ones in the Silver and Gold Market.
<< <i>Mt you are right, inventory is a function of the asset. Common sports cards can not be compared to all markets, especially precous metals! >>
Exception being Gold Dust
<< <i>
<< <i>It only takes a one or two times of sellers getting burned with an auction with no buyers supporting it to turn away from them (the auctions). That is why you see an abundance of BIN's. True, the market IS supply vs demand, but it is also a catch-22. If the demand dries up, so will the supply..... >>
Demand will never dry up but supply is limited...chaz >>
lmao.
Demand can dry up for anything trust me.
I hope we have some lurkers on the Nobel committee.
<< <i>Demand can dry up for anything trust me >>
As long as greed is around, demand will NEVER dry up!
High grade vintage rookies and key stars are significantly more stable as the volume of submissions have already taken place and the market is much more stable and settled. However, absent continued demand, even these prices would be subject to downward progression. Likewise, super high grade, low pop items tend to have the most volatile price swings as an item may have an extremely limited sales history (as would be expected with a low pop item) and will usually attract the attention of several collectors with deep pockets, albeit, this market is traditionally very slim. As a result, the second or third exposures of the same item will most commonly trend lower than the initial offering.
Are BIN's the answer? Not exactly. They're simply a way for a seller to a.) generate potential counter-offers, b.) protect their investment, or c.) hope for someone in dire need to affect the transaction at the listed price.
While not as readily available as in the past, there are still more than enough set breaks and vintage offerings the occur over any given quarter to satisfy most set builders despite the plethora of seemingly overpriced BIN's.
and d.) snare the occasional uniformed buyer. And there is nothing wrong with that.
PSA 6
Chaz
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>This thread contains some ground breaking economic theory.
I hope we have some lurkers on the Nobel committee. >>
Thank you thank you .....chaz
<< <i>The marketplace for vintage (pre-1975 for argument's sake) collector and "investor" grade commons is a slippery slope. In essence, the market is driven by short supply when, in actuality, there is a surplus of material. Once a peak market price is set that warrants sorting through commons boxes or breaking product/sets, there is an influx of such items to the TPG's and then a glut that quenches the dearth that previously existed. The end result is lower prices than originally realized.
High grade vintage rookies and key stars are significantly more stable as the volume of submissions have already taken place and the market is much more stable and settled. However, absent continued demand, even these prices would be subject to downward progression. Likewise, super high grade, low pop items tend to have the most volatile price swings as an item may have an extremely limited sales history (as would be expected with a low pop item) and will usually attract the attention of several collectors with deep pockets, albeit, this market is traditionally very slim. As a result, the second or third exposures of the same item will most commonly trend lower than the initial offering.
Are BIN's the answer? Not exactly. They're simply a way for a seller to a.) generate potential counter-offers, b.) protect their investment, or c.) hope for someone in dire need to affect the transaction at the listed price.
While not as readily available as in the past, there are still more than enough set breaks and vintage offerings the occur over any given quarter to satisfy most set builders despite the plethora of seemingly overpriced BIN's. >>
I disagree. And my reason is simple... I see more and more sold BIN's. Collectors don't want to wait forever to get the card they need if it's staring right at them with a BIN. They will pay for it because in many cases they believe it's the true worth of the card. chaz
<< <i>
<< <i>The marketplace for vintage (pre-1975 for argument's sake) collector and "investor" grade commons is a slippery slope. In essence, the market is driven by short supply when, in actuality, there is a surplus of material. Once a peak market price is set that warrants sorting through commons boxes or breaking product/sets, there is an influx of such items to the TPG's and then a glut that quenches the dearth that previously existed. The end result is lower prices than originally realized.
High grade vintage rookies and key stars are significantly more stable as the volume of submissions have already taken place and the market is much more stable and settled. However, absent continued demand, even these prices would be subject to downward progression. Likewise, super high grade, low pop items tend to have the most volatile price swings as an item may have an extremely limited sales history (as would be expected with a low pop item) and will usually attract the attention of several collectors with deep pockets, albeit, this market is traditionally very slim. As a result, the second or third exposures of the same item will most commonly trend lower than the initial offering.
Are BIN's the answer? Not exactly. They're simply a way for a seller to a.) generate potential counter-offers, b.) protect their investment, or c.) hope for someone in dire need to affect the transaction at the listed price.
While not as readily available as in the past, there are still more than enough set breaks and vintage offerings the occur over any given quarter to satisfy most set builders despite the plethora of seemingly overpriced BIN's. >>
I disagree. And my reason is simple... I see more and more sold BIN's. Collectors don't want to wait forever to get the card they need if it's staring right at them with a BIN. They will pay for it because in many cases they believe it's the true worth of the card. chaz >>
lol, where do you see more and more BIN's? Where are your stats to support that? What I see when I look at completed auctions is a ton of items in red numbers that never had a bid and the occasional green auction bid or BIN.