<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike?
<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike? >>
Do you think the relatively very soft almost pure gold of a spouse coin will retain a trace of a previous strike after being restamped under the immense force of the modern presses? How many hundreds of tons of force are exerted by the presses used for the spouses? Daniel Carr gets 400 tons of force with his 1986 Grabener coin press.
<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike? >>
Do you think the relatively very soft almost pure gold of a spouse coin will retain a trace of a previous strike after being restamped under the immense force of the modern presses? How many hundreds of tons of force are exerted by the presses used for the spouses? Daniel Carr gets 400 tons of force with his 1986 Grabener coin press. >>
Of course not. My reply was a wishful what if only. But one never does know with the US Mint.
Thanks for the added response, yes, you're perfectly right about that. Incidentally, I just spent a really fascinating few minutes scrolling through Daniel Carr's history and details of his press, including the discovery of many lost planchets: Link
The comment about buying 70 more and see if it's goes black is rediculous. It may exceed 6800 in ORDERS. I think many have been around long enough to know that those numbers are adjusted downwards MOST of the time and will be again. >>
It was obviously a joke....
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
<< It's all individual taste, but, that Van Buren is one of the most BLAH Liberty designs in the subset. Buchanan's Lib has it beat by a longshot on design elements. >>
So does the Jackson, which may be why the Jackson is bringing close to Van Buren money on eBay.
Demand for coins in the Liberty subset comes not only from collectors of the subset or collectors of the complete Spouse series. Some people are collecting selected individual coins in the series, based on attractiveness or historical significance. The Jackson and Jefferson win on both counts, and the Buchanan wins on looks. The Van Buren wins only on low mintage, which was caused by low initial demand based on limited attractiveness and historical significance.
The Jefferson Liberty is a great "gateway" coin for introducing new collectors to the Liberty subset - priced near melt, so gold accumulators can add this coin to their stash without paying extra for the privilege.
The uncirc will probably end up with a lower mintage, but the proof has more collector appeal. The proof looks like it may be poised to sell out, so if you're looking to buy another, I'd make it a proof.
Successful transactions with keepdachange, tizofthe, adriana, wondercoin
If I'm not mistaken, the Buch proof has the chance to be the lowest mintage proof for the 4 coin Liberty subset. Although the Buch unc has a lower mintage than the proof, the unc will not be the lowest mintage unc for the subset.
<< <i>If I'm not mistaken, the Buch proof has the chance to be the lowest mintage proof for the 4 coin Liberty subset. Although the Buch unc has a lower mintage than the proof, the unc will not be the lowest mintage unc for the subset. >>
I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334.
<< <i> I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334. Link This shows the Van Buren higher than the Buchanan, albeit not by much. Is there another more recent source of info? >>
Yes. That source shows the final SALES info, which does not take into account returns. Eric has posted the FINAL, FINAL mintage figure on the MVB Unc - it's 3826.
<< <i> I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334. Link This shows the Van Buren higher than the Buchanan, albeit not by much. Is there another more recent source of info? >>
Yes. That source shows the final SALES info, which does not take into account returns. Eric has posted the FINAL, FINAL mintage figure on the MVB Unc - it's 3826. >>
Where is this information available? As the Final mintages are apparently not published, how will we know the final mintages for any of these coins?
<< Where is this information available? As the Final mintages are apparently not published, how will we know the final mintages for any of these coins? >>
Check this page about halfway down - "FINAL FINAL".
<< <i><< Where is this information available? As the Final mintages are apparently not published, how will we know the final mintages for any of these coins? >>
Check this page about halfway down - "FINAL FINAL". >>
I've gathered from his postings that Eric has a lot more access to mint information than any other. Good source to have.
6807 ..... 6835 PR.............. +28 over and counting 3826 ..... 4250 UNC ........ +424 over and counting >>
Right, but all we have are weekly sales (order) reports to go on so this is where it stands:
Unc Vanburen closing sales report, 4,334......... current report for UNC Bucks 4,250........ minus 84 but going to end up 1,000+ coins higher by years end becaus they have 9 months to sell and a load of them on the shelf. Proof Van Buren closing sales report 7,515.......6835 PR.............. minus 680
Thats an apples to apples report right now but the data has a ton of noise in it. Like I said numerous posts back. When the weekly sales report is at 7500 for the proof buck and they are still for sale then we will know that the VB Proof is probably king. Until then its a horse race.
Not to take away the sport of a horse race but don't you think that a small difference either way is insignificant considering this is just a subset? I mean it is not like the Red book is going to highlight this subset. In terms of availability they will be roughly the same and I think that is what will matters most.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
<< <i>Not to take away the sport of a horse race but don't you think that a small difference either way is insignificant considering this is just a subset? I mean it is not like the Red book is going to highlight this subset. In terms of availability they will be roughly the same and I think that is what will matters most. >>
I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k To me that difference in price is not insignificant. VB raw right now are going for about as much as a Buchanan Firts Strike.
<< I agree with others who prefer the Buch design over VB. The VB design is probably the least desirable design in the subset. >>
The VB design would have looked much better with a semicircle of stars on the obverse, like those which appeared on a majority of Liberty Seated silver coins.
<< I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k >>
I believe the Buchanan has a *much* higher number of PR70 First Strikes than the Van Buren.
MS70 and PR70 First Strikes are somewhat of a separate category for the First Spouse series. A low population in this grade can result in a dramatically higher price, even if the coin itself is relatively more common.
In five years, when this particular subset is no longer readily available to those who will want classically designed coins, it won't matter which one is the "rarest". It's not like it's all or none. While the least minted coin is likely to bring the most return, people will still be scrambling to buy this set. The Jackson, Van Buren and the Buchanan will all do well. Some will just do better than others. So what? All will be winners to a degree. The spread between them could be insignificant. Just make sure you have PCGS graded 70's, otherwise it will be mostly bullion values.
Besides, there are and will be some much smaller mintages in the non-subset issues, which will probably stand on their own as rarities.
What's next in the sub-set category? Republicans vs. Democrats.
I myself can't wait for the vice-presidential coins to be issued.
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145 PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over.
The VB unc at 38XX mintage is like a plat W unc 1/10 mintage level, very very low for a key gold coin with a Liberty design. I would not discount that fact when looking at these coins as to which will be the best down the road.
PS the Julia Tyler FINAL unc numbers actually went UP from the final sales numbers, not all had a drop from final sales. I think the buch proof will have a drop but with this mint bookkeeper you never know.
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145 PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over. >>
People may be hedging. I feel that most of the Buchanan's purchased now are in anticipation of a sell-out. It's the last of the sub-set. Could be if this doesn't materialize soon, many will be returned.
"The spread between them could be insignificant. Just make sure you have PCGS graded 70's, otherwise it will be mostly bullion values." Tell me why you think this is so when the mintages are so low. I can't comprehend the rationale to this. Of course, I have been told many times I am a little thick So in your mind the rankings/pricing values look like this???? PCGS 70 FS PCGS 70 NGC70 RAW in OGP PCGS 69 NGC 69 and the 69s merely bullion value? First strike in 69 having no additional value? Personally, I don't see the value added as a 70 but thats just me. Perhaps some discussion and conjecture is in order but, as we all know, only time will tell
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." Thomas Jefferson
<< <i>Not to take away the sport of a horse race but don't you think that a small difference either way is insignificant considering this is just a subset? I mean it is not like the Red book is going to highlight this subset. In terms of availability they will be roughly the same and I think that is what will matters most. >>
I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k To me that difference in price is not insignificant. VB raw right now are going for about as much as a Buchanan Firts Strike. >>
The Buchanan is still for sale right now. I think the more powerful force on any valuation will be the graded population numbers when sales go off. Otherwise, I think the raws will be close in valuation between these two designs depending on availability.
Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145 PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over >>
You are ignoring the fact of so many Buch Prfs being returned early on for 'frost breaks' etc., so many more complaints on this issue than any other liberty subset proof.
If I were to place my bet Half, I wouldnt be backing your logic up.
The safe bet is with a significant reduction in the sales number, I would guess more than the VB. That would take you to the low 6000's, maybe even in the high 5000's.
Some large dealers placing "call" notices for pricing on the Buch Prfs, indicating their short inventory and/or unwillingness to sell for a small amount over issue, you dont want to be on the wrong side of this deal.
<< <i>"The spread between them could be insignificant. Just make sure you have PCGS graded 70's, otherwise it will be mostly bullion values." Tell me why you think this is so when the mintages are so low. I can't comprehend the rationale to this. Of course, I have been told many times I am a little thick So in your mind the rankings/pricing values look like this???? PCGS 70 FS PCGS 70 NGC70 RAW in OGP PCGS 69 NGC 69 and the 69s merely bullion value? First strike in 69 having no additional value? Personally, I don't see the value added as a 70 but thats just me. Perhaps some discussion and conjecture is in order but, as we all know, only time will tell >>
Go to the sold items on Ebay and check the price differences between any of these and comparable PCGS 70's. Rationale aside, facts is facts. I speak only of the gold spouse coins. But this generally holds true for most modern gold commems: grades and grading companies matter a lot.
And other than the PCGS 70 FS down to the PCGS 70, in YOUR rankings (don't attempt to read my mind, I prefer to be in there alone), I have no expertise or opinion. I don't think anything less than 70's matter much when it comes to premium. ...Maybe raw in OGP; I'd rather have them than a guaranteed 69 or less of any grading company.
Comments
Answer: NO more proofs were struck or even asked for according to the guys I talked to.
<< <i>
<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike?
Do you think the relatively very soft almost pure gold of a spouse coin will retain a trace of a previous strike after being restamped under the immense force of the modern presses? How many hundreds of tons of force are exerted by the presses used for the spouses? Daniel Carr gets 400 tons of force with his 1986 Grabener coin press.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Because they have a scrap rate that wanders. If all you can sell is 15,000 coins and you have a 5% to 20% scrap rate you dont make 15,000/.9 = 16666 coins just to find out you only had a 5% scrap and have to throw away 15000/.95 -16666 = 876 coins. If they struck 7000 uncs how many did they end up with? How do they know this in advance? The theory that they can produce 15,000 coins is not rational unless they want to have extra melt coins for scrap. Over 8,000 proofs is a very agressive high end assumption that I cant justify from the data. >>
Here's a question in regard to the coins that are rejected as poor quality or scrap. Instead of melting them, why can't they be used directly as planchets, either for the exact same coin, or for another in the same series? >>
I like that idea.... wouldn't it be great to get a coin that shows a trace of the previous strike?
Do you think the relatively very soft almost pure gold of a spouse coin will retain a trace of a previous strike after being restamped under the immense force of the modern presses? How many hundreds of tons of force are exerted by the presses used for the spouses? Daniel Carr gets 400 tons of force with his 1986 Grabener coin press. >>
Of course not. My reply was a wishful what if only. But one never does know with the US Mint.
<< <i>
6800 is it boys and girls. That's my call.
The comment about buying 70 more and see if it's goes black is rediculous. It may exceed 6800 in ORDERS. I think many have been around long enough to know that those numbers are adjusted downwards MOST of the time and will be again.
>>
It was obviously a joke....
So does the Jackson, which may be why the Jackson is bringing close to Van Buren money on eBay.
Demand for coins in the Liberty subset comes not only from collectors of the subset or collectors of the complete Spouse series. Some people are collecting selected individual coins in the series, based on attractiveness or historical significance. The Jackson and Jefferson win on both counts, and the Buchanan wins on looks. The Van Buren wins only on low mintage, which was caused by low initial demand based on limited attractiveness and historical significance.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
Buchanan's Liberty is very pretty though......
Regardless, it will make a very pretty Proof Liberty Subset.
The big dealers will be revving up their engiones to sell this subset very soon - i predict!!!!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>It was hands down Jeff Liberty for me, until the Jackson Liberty came along.
Buchanan's Liberty is very pretty though......
Regardless, it will make a very pretty Proof Liberty Subset.
The big dealers will be revving up their engiones to sell this subset very soon - i predict!!!! >>
Well they started gearing up on the uncs last week.
Your Shopping Cart
has: 999 Item(s)
Subtotal= $853,146.00
<< <i>I put 999 buch proof in my cart for $853,146.00 and it still says In Stock FWIW.
Your Shopping Cart
has: 999 Item(s)
Subtotal= $853,146.00 >>
Please let us know when you receive them!
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i>I put 999 buch proof in my cart for $853,146.00 and it still says In Stock FWIW.
Your Shopping Cart
has: 999 Item(s)
Subtotal= $853,146.00 >>
Still only $5 shipping :-)
that'll prove as much as you have proven with your 999 in your cart theory
meaningless.
orders does not relate to mintage. not the way the USM handles it.
4250 UNC
GOLD BUCHANANS
AS OF 1/10/11
Sorry guys cant type today!
<< <i>I bet you can put 15,000 more in your cart too.....
that'll prove as much as you have proven with your 999 in your cart theory
meaningless.
orders does not relate to mintage. not the way the USM handles it. >>
I'm with 7over8 on this one.
I'm not sure that the mint's catalog site is that much in touch with the inventory.
It should be, but that doesn't mean it is.
<< <i>4835 PPROF
4250 UNC
GOLD BUCHANANS
AS OF 1/10/11 >>
??
4,835 Buchanan Proof?
I know there have been returns, but NN shows 6,734 last week. That's quite some discrepancy, especially when the same NN shows 4,227 uncircs.
<< <i>If I'm not mistaken, the Buch proof has the chance to be the lowest mintage proof for the 4 coin Liberty subset. Although the Buch unc has a lower mintage than the proof, the unc will not be the lowest mintage unc for the subset. >>
I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334.
Link
This shows the Van Buren higher than the Buchanan, albeit not by much.
Is there another more recent source of info?
Just my eversohumble opinion.
Cheers,
Bob
<< <i> I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334. Link This shows the Van Buren higher than the Buchanan, albeit not by much. Is there another more recent source of info? >>
Yes. That source shows the final SALES info, which does not take into account returns. Eric has posted the FINAL, FINAL mintage figure on the MVB Unc - it's 3826.
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
<< <i>
<< <i> I am trying to come up with a mintage for the Van Buren uncirculated that supports your statement. The only mintage figure for the Van Vuren that I can find shows a mintage of 4,334. Link This shows the Van Buren higher than the Buchanan, albeit not by much. Is there another more recent source of info? >>
Yes. That source shows the final SALES info, which does not take into account returns. Eric has posted the FINAL, FINAL mintage figure on the MVB Unc - it's 3826. >>
Where is this information available? As the Final mintages are apparently not published, how will we know the final mintages for any of these coins?
Check this page about halfway down - "FINAL FINAL".
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
<< <i><< Where is this information available? As the Final mintages are apparently not published, how will we know the final mintages for any of these coins? >>
Check this page about halfway down - "FINAL FINAL". >>
I've gathered from his postings that Eric has a lot more access to mint information than any other. Good source to have.
<< <i>I've gathered from his postings that Eric has a lot more access to mint information than any other. Good source to have. >>
Si!
6807 ..... 6835 PR.............. +28 over and counting
3826 ..... 4250 UNC ........ +424 over and counting
VB are FINAL. Which decreased several hundred coins from last "sales" amounts.
Be cautious with VB, it may be de-throned on the Proof coin.
<< <i>Buch are not FINAL, rather ORDERS.
VB are FINAL. Which decreased several hundred coins from last "sales" amounts.
Be cautious with VB, it may be de-throned on the Proof coin. >>
VB has a small throne anyway. We are only talking a subset here and I don't know if that really means anything much.
I knew it would happen.
I agree with others who prefer the Buch design over VB. The VB design is probably the least desirable design in the subset.
With that said, dont be surprised at the Buch Prf when FINAL numbers are available. IMO, the downward revision could be significant.
<< <i>VB............ Buch
6807 ..... 6835 PR.............. +28 over and counting
3826 ..... 4250 UNC ........ +424 over and counting >>
Right, but all we have are weekly sales (order) reports to go on so this is where it stands:
Unc Vanburen closing sales report, 4,334......... current report for UNC Bucks 4,250........ minus 84 but going to end up 1,000+ coins higher by years end becaus they have 9 months to sell and a load of them on the shelf.
Proof Van Buren closing sales report 7,515.......6835 PR.............. minus 680
Thats an apples to apples report right now but the data has a ton of noise in it. Like I said numerous posts back. When the weekly sales report is at 7500 for the proof buck and they are still for sale then we will know that the VB Proof is probably king. Until then its a horse race.
Eric
<< <i>Not to take away the sport of a horse race but don't you think that a small difference either way is insignificant considering this is just a subset? I mean it is not like the Red book is going to highlight this subset. In terms of availability they will be roughly the same and I think that is what will matters most. >>
I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k To me that difference in price is not insignificant. VB raw right now are going for about as much as a Buchanan Firts Strike.
The VB design would have looked much better with a semicircle of stars on the obverse, like those which appeared on a majority of Liberty Seated silver coins.
<< I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k >>
I believe the Buchanan has a *much* higher number of PR70 First Strikes than the Van Buren.
MS70 and PR70 First Strikes are somewhat of a separate category for the First Spouse series. A low population in this grade can result in a dramatically higher price, even if the coin itself is relatively more common.
My Adolph A. Weinman signature
It's not like it's all or none.
While the least minted coin is likely to bring the most return, people will still be scrambling to buy this set. The Jackson, Van Buren and the Buchanan will all do well. Some will just do better than others. So what? All will be winners to a degree. The spread between them could be insignificant. Just make sure you have PCGS graded 70's, otherwise it will be mostly bullion values.
Besides, there are and will be some much smaller mintages in the non-subset issues, which will probably stand on their own as rarities.
What's next in the sub-set category? Republicans vs. Democrats.
I myself can't wait for the vice-presidential coins to be issued.
.............Sales..........Final
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145
PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over.
The VB unc at 38XX mintage is like a plat W unc 1/10 mintage level, very very low for a key gold coin with a Liberty design. I would not discount that fact when looking at these coins as to which will be the best down the road.
PS the Julia Tyler FINAL unc numbers actually went UP from the final sales numbers, not all had a drop from final sales. I think the buch proof will have a drop but with this mint bookkeeper you never know.
<< <i>AJ
.............Sales..........Final
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145
PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over. >>
People may be hedging.
I feel that most of the Buchanan's purchased now are in anticipation of a sell-out. It's the last of the sub-set. Could be if this doesn't materialize soon, many will be returned.
PCGS 70 FS
PCGS 70
NGC70
RAW in OGP
PCGS 69
NGC 69
and the 69s merely bullion value? First strike in 69 having no additional value? Personally, I don't see the value added as a 70 but thats just me. Perhaps some discussion and conjecture is in order but, as we all know, only time will tell
<< <i>
<< <i>Not to take away the sport of a horse race but don't you think that a small difference either way is insignificant considering this is just a subset? I mean it is not like the Red book is going to highlight this subset. In terms of availability they will be roughly the same and I think that is what will matters most. >>
I do not know about you, but currently a PR70 FS Buchanan is about $1200 on ebay, if they are lower mintage they should jump into the 1800 to 2k To me that difference in price is not insignificant. VB raw right now are going for about as much as a Buchanan Firts Strike. >>
The Buchanan is still for sale right now. I think the more powerful force on any valuation will be the graded population numbers when sales go off. Otherwise, I think the raws will be close in valuation between these two designs depending on availability.
<< <i>AJ
.............Sales..........Final
UNC........4754..........4609......... Drop of only 145
PR...........7806..........7684..........Drop of only 122
So not all coins had a huge drop of 400 plus coins. Another week of 100 sales and the Buch pr could be what the Jackson Proof was at about 122 over >>
You are ignoring the fact of so many Buch Prfs being returned early on for 'frost breaks' etc., so many more complaints on this issue than any other liberty subset proof.
If I were to place my bet Half, I wouldnt be backing your logic up.
The safe bet is with a significant reduction in the sales number, I would guess more than the VB. That would take you to the low 6000's, maybe even in the high 5000's.
Some large dealers placing "call" notices for pricing on the Buch Prfs, indicating their short inventory and/or unwillingness to sell for a small amount over issue, you dont want to be on the wrong side of this deal.
<< <i>"The spread between them could be insignificant. Just make sure you have PCGS graded 70's, otherwise it will be mostly bullion values." Tell me why you think this is so when the mintages are so low. I can't comprehend the rationale to this. Of course, I have been told many times I am a little thick
PCGS 70 FS
PCGS 70
NGC70
RAW in OGP
PCGS 69
NGC 69
and the 69s merely bullion value? First strike in 69 having no additional value? Personally, I don't see the value added as a 70 but thats just me. Perhaps some discussion and conjecture is in order but, as we all know, only time will tell
Go to the sold items on Ebay and check the price differences between any of these and comparable PCGS 70's. Rationale aside, facts is facts. I speak only of the gold spouse coins. But this generally holds true for most modern gold commems: grades and grading companies matter a lot.
And other than the PCGS 70 FS down to the PCGS 70, in YOUR rankings (don't attempt to read my mind, I prefer to be in there alone), I have no expertise or opinion. I don't think anything less than 70's matter much when it comes to premium. ...Maybe raw in OGP; I'd rather have them than a guaranteed 69 or less of any grading company.