I suspect we clearly have a difference of opinion as to what constitutes modern times and I will leave it at that
To ME when the BCS came about the bowls have less importance as the focus was on the ONE game. It's too bad. Before the BCS the bowls had really meaning. Winning the Rose Bowl or the Cotton Bowl or the whatever bowl, against a traditional rival, was great. However, since the advent of the BCS things have changed in my opinion. To me, the thought of a second place Big 10 or Pac 10 team winning the Rose Bowl shows how trivial it is to all except a team with horrible football tradition like Minny or Cal.
As for Boise State's loss I am bummed. I liked having that buffer of Boise and TCU to make it tougher for a one loss team to leap frog them. If BYU beats Utah today that will further harm TCU and make it more likely for some one loss team to leap frog them... if Oregon and/or Auburn are to lose their next game. I still think Boise is an excellent football team and I hope they get to play in a meaningful bowl game. The sad part of the bowls is they are all locked up with major conference teams. Thus all bowls of meaning get the lesser teams from the big conferences. Boise would give any team from a big conference a game but instead they will probably play in a very low bowl left vacant by the Pac 10 not being able to fill their bowls due to having so many mediocre (or less) teams this year.
Further, watching 'bama in the first half shows even more how valuable a playoff would be. Your telling me if 'bama was the 16th seed in a 16 team playoff that they wouldn't have a good chance to win the whole thing!? It's really a shame that only two teams get to play for the championship. The bowls mean nothing and the championship game doesn't mean all it should.
Fairlane... I believe you are correct and I should have included the Pac 8/10 when referencing the Rosebowl- Off hand, I do not know if that changed as to both conferences at the same time- it very well could have.
larryallen-
I guess you do not know who Lynn Waldorf was and to slam the football tradition at Cal and Minnesota is really is not appropriate.
Not only was Lynn Waldorf the greatest Coach at Cal, he lead them to championships in 1948, 1950 and 1951. Cal likely would have been National Champs at least one of those years had they not lost the Rosebowl game. The Cal football tradition is quite strong especially from the early 1920s through the time Waldorf retired. BTW, Waldorf was also the Northwestern coach in 1936 and is one of few College Football coaches that one a Big Ten and Pac 8 title- oddly Mike White, another Cal Head Coach can say the samething and perhaps that is something you do remember- Chuck Muncie & Company?
Lets discuss Minnesota football- Bernie Beirman followed by Murray Warmath were two great coaches by any standard. From 1900 through the mid 1960s, the Minnesota football program would likely rank in the top 15 for games won and probably higher for national championships.
Just because you have not been impressed with what Cal and Minnesota have done in recent history does not mean that either school does not have a proud football tradition-
Growing up in Southern Cal, you should hopefully have some recollection of Red Sanders and Tommy Prothro- I suspect we can discuss that in my next post
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Fairlane... I believe you are correct and I should have included the Pac 8/10 when referencing the Rosebowl- Off hand, I do not know if that changed as to both conferences at the same time- it very well could have.
larryallen-
I guess you do not know who Lynn Waldorf was and to slam the football tradition at Cal and Minnesota is really is not appropriate.
Not only was Lynn Waldorf the greatest Coach at Cal, he lead them to championships in 1948, 1950 and 1951. Cal likely would have been National Champs at least one of those years had they not lost the Rosebowl game. The Cal football tradition is quite strong especially from the early 1920s through the time Waldorf retired. BTW, Waldorf was also the Northwestern coach in 1936 and is one of few College Football coaches that one a Big Ten and Pac 8 title- oddly Mike White, another Cal Head Coach can say the samething and perhaps that is something you do remember- Chuck Muncie & Company?
Lets discuss Minnesota football- Bernie Beirman followed by Murray Warmath were two great coaches by any standard. From 1900 through the mid 1960s, the Minnesota football program would likely rank in the top 15 for games won and probably higher for national championships.
Just because you have not been impressed with what Cal and Minnesota have done in recent history does not mean that either school does not have a proud football tradition-
Growing up in Southern Cal, you should hopefully have some recollection of Red Sanders and Tommy Prothro- I suspect we can discuss that in my next post >>
Indeed. Minnesota has a pretty good history with 18 big ten championships and some national championships.
As for Boise state, i stayed up til 2 am to watch that crazy game. Boise state had the game won with 1 second left in the 4th quarter. That 60 yrd bomb by Moore and that great diving catch. Cant believe their kicker missed 2 easy field goals. What a shame Boise lost that game.
For those not watching the OSU-UM game, the AFLAC trivia question was- Which Big Ten Team has won the most Big Ten Championships behing Ohio State and Michigan?
The answer is Minnesota
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
I guess you do not know who Lynn Waldorf was and to slam the football tradition at Cal and Minnesota is really is not appropriate.
Seriously? I respect your posts and appreciate your history lesson (yes, I know who Prothro and Sanders were) and I, at times (as a huge UCLA hoops fan) resort to history lessons. However, the fact is that neither Cal nor Minnesota has been relevant in my lifetime (40+ years). So maybe I am narrow minded as I only care about my lifetime but it's hard for me to give much credibility to Cal or Minny's "tradition" that happened many generations ago. What they did in the 1940's or 50's is long ago history. It's a different discusion. My only point was that about the only teams that really get excited about the Rose Bowl now would be teams that haven't sniffed a rose in generations (like Minny and Cal and probably a few others). It was a simple statement. I don't think UCLA would be as excited about the Rose Bowl, if they were a second place Pac 10 finisher, as they were in the 80's when they won it 3 out of 4 years. It meant substantially more back then.
Speaking of history I read an artlce years ago, I think in the LA Times, about the finding of old bowl trophies at St. Mary's College (in Moraga, CA). Now a decent hoops school. Back in the 80's they found some old bowl trophies. For example, little St. Mary's won the Cotton Bowl in 1939. It's cool history and not much before the time of Cal and Minny's great "football tradition." If you want to read more about St. Mary's great football tradition check the web; it's really quite interesting.
Is that the best you can do ? Take the entire conference and pit it against some of the top programs in the country ? Yeah, I'd love to know how Vanderbilt has done against Penn State, or how Mississippi State has done against Oklahoma.
Actually, it's just Boise acting like a team that plays against Div. 2 schools. Boise is 2-4 in its last six bowl games. They fold when a little bit of pressure comes their way. So it's not a shame at all. They just did what they tend to do.
National Champions - 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941 and 1960
Tradition is measured from the beginning to the present day- Seriously, Minnesota has a football tradition other schools wish they had.
Off hand, I am not sure how conference Championships Cal has- I suspect at least 10-12 >>
University of Washington was the true National Champion in 1960 as the only one loss team that year and also beating Minnesota in the Rose Bowl 17-7. Gophers ended the year with 2 losses. Sorry.
Stupidly the National Championship was given out at the end of the regular season.
Is that the best you can do ? Take the entire conference and pit it against some of the top programs in the country ? Yeah, I'd love to know how Vanderbilt has done against Penn State, or how Mississippi State has done against Oklahoma. >>
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC
Actually, it's just Boise acting like a team that plays against Div. 2 schools. Boise is 2-4 in its last six bowl games. They fold when a little bit of pressure comes their way. So it's not a shame at all. They just did what they tend to do. >>
It was a shame because Boise had the game won against a top 20 team on the road. I realize that kicking is part of the game, but the only player that lost the game for them was the kicker.
TCU was ahead 21-0, with the ball back, 10 minutes into their game. Then they fumebeled away to create an easy score. That's good as it should give Patterson some good half time talk. I was really hoping they would get 100 today!
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC >>
The SEC holds an 259-126-10 (.668) all-time advantage against the ACC.
The SEC leads the Pac-10 all time 62-39-5 (.608).
Through 2009, the SEC leads the Big Ten with a 67-48-2 all-time record.
The SEC leads the Big 12 in all time head to head matchups with a 24-17-0 record (.585)
And here are the conference records since the BCS starting having BCS games. These are all BCS games only, and feature the best teams from those conferences. Guess who's on top ?
Highest Winning Percentages By Conference
Conference Percentage (Record) Southeastern 737 (14-5) Mountain West 667 (2-1) WAC 667 (2-1) Pacific-10 643 (9-5) Big East 500 (6-6) Big Ten 476 (10-11) Big 12 412 (7-10) Atlantic Coast167 (2-10) Independents ie Notre Dame 000 (0-3)
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC >>
The SEC holds an 259-126-10 (.668) all-time advantage against the ACC.
The SEC leads the Pac-10 all time 62-39-5 (.608).
Through 2009, the SEC leads the Big Ten with a 67-48-2 all-time record.
The SEC leads the Big 12 in all time head to head matchups with a 24-17-0 record (.585)
And here are the conference records since the BCS starting having BCS games. These are all BCS games only, and feature the best teams from those conferences. Guess who's on top ?
Highest Winning Percentages By Conference
Conference Percentage (Record) Southeastern 737 (14-5) Mountain West 667 (2-1) WAC 667 (2-1) Pacific-10 643 (9-5) Big East 500 (6-6) Big Ten 476 (10-11) Big 12 412 (7-10) Atlantic Coast167 (2-10) Independents ie Notre Dame 000 (0-3) >>
The sec has just 4 more wins than the big ten. Not bad for the big ten considering none of the BCS bowls are played in the midwest.
UCONN in the Orange bowl? Didnt Michigan beat them this year?
>>
The Big East sucks. If UConn beats South Florida next week, then they clinch the Big Eat title. If we beat UConn, and West Virginia wins then WVU gets the title. UConn owns the tie breaker with Pitt and WVU because they managed to beat both teams in OT this season.
I really hope we pull off the win, WVU would represent the Big East much better. They've been a bit inconsistent at times but they actually gave LSU a pretty decent game down in Baton Rouge this year.
Big East Standings TEAM CONF OVERALL Connecticut 4-2 7-4 West Virginia 4-2 8-3 Pittsburgh 4-2 6-5 Syracuse 4-3 7-5 South Florida 3-3 7-4 Louisville 3-4 6-6 Cincinnati 2-4 4-7 Rutgers 1-5 4-7
Certainly Wisky has been crushing teams but TCU has a very good defense and, this year, a good offense.
! >>
Ohio state has a better defense(#3 in the nation) and wisconsin ran on them at will. Wisconsin has 3 different running backs with at least 600 yrds. I could be wrong but i predict wisconsin wins easily.
The SEC v. the rest of the world arguments are funny. The fact is the SEC is the best conference but it's not as better than the rest than the SEC fans think. However, there is no argument that will ever sway an SEC fan to even think it's possible anybody else is near them. It's silly to argue. College football means the world to the people in SEC country. God, country, family, SEC football... in no particular order.
I do think Wisconsin is a great team. However, I really think TCU will give them a game. I think TCU will give them more of a game than Boise would have. Boise would match up better with almost any other BCS team than Wisky so I guess it's lucky they lossed.
Also, I find it interesting that Iowa (at 7-5) is still predicted for a New Year's Day game (Outback) against South Carolina. I know Iowa travels very well but 9-3 South Carolina is better than Iowa, no!? The other conferences do much better than my Pac 10 in bowl games.
<< <i>The SEC v. the rest of the world arguments are funny. The fact is the SEC is the best conference but it's not as better than the rest than the SEC fans think. However, there is no argument that will ever sway an SEC fan to even think it's possible anybody else is near them. It's silly to argue. College football means the world to the people in SEC country. God, country, family, SEC football... in no particular order.
I do think Wisconsin is a great team. However, I really think TCU will give them a game. I think TCU will give them more of a game than Boise would have. Boise would match up better with almost any other BCS team than Wisky so I guess it's lucky they lossed.
Also, I find it interesting that Iowa (at 7-5) is still predicted for a New Year's Day game (Outback) against South Carolina. I know Iowa travels very well but 9-3 South Carolina is better than Iowa, no!? The other conferences do much better than my Pac 10 in bowl games. >>
I think the pac ten does pretty well in bowl games. They are 9-5 in BCS games. Only conference with 2 teams in the top 5 this year. I think Iowa vs south carolina is a great matchup. Iowa went toe to toe with Wisconsin and is the only team to beat Michigan state this year.
I think the pac ten does pretty well in bowl games. They are 9-5 in BCS games.
They have performed well but the natural conference/bowl allignments are weak for the Pac 10. Holiday Bowl, Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl, etc.... They are all pre-New Years Day. Whereas a team like Iowa, in 4th or 5th place in the Big 10 will still get a New Year's Day game. Plus, it's often Pac 10 #2 versus Big 12 #4. Thus the Big 12, by example, has better/higher bowl allignments than the Pac 10. I assume the Pac 10 doesn't travel as well and is still considered a half a notch lower than the Big 12/Big 10/SEC it seems.
The thing I find funny is the SEC fans from schools like Ole Miss or Kentucky (not talking about basketball here) that brag about the SEC and playing in that conference, despite having not done much to help the SEC's reputation. They do the same thing for other sports too. Last year during the NCAA baseball tournament the Rivals college baseball board has multiple threads with titles like "SEC! SEC! SEC!". I remember one was started by a Georgia fan after South Carolina won the College World series last year even though Georgia had an awful baseball season.
It's weird stuff. I didn't see any Dodgers fans chanting "NL WEST!!!!" after the Giants won the World Series this year. It's like me talking up Big East basketball after Louisville grabs a big win, acting like WE accomplished something when my school hasn't even made the NCAA tournament since 1992 hahah....
It's weird stuff. I didn't see any Dodgers fans chanting "NL WEST!!!!" after the Giants won the World Series this year. It's like me talking up Big East basketball after Louisville grabs a big win, acting like WE accomplished something when my school hasn't even made the NCAA tournament since 1992 hahah....
Exactly. One of the gals in my office came in wearing Giant's gear during the World Series and I (jokingly) told her she was fired. She told me the Dodgers were her favorite team but she was rooting for California. I was like, no I don't think so.
<< <i>The thing I find funny is the SEC fans from schools like Ole Miss or Kentucky (not talking about basketball here) that brag about the SEC and playing in that conference, despite having not done much to help the SEC's reputation. They do the same thing for other sports too. Last year during the NCAA baseball tournament the Rivals college baseball board has multiple threads with titles like "SEC! SEC! SEC!". I remember one was started by a Georgia fan after South Carolina won the College World series last year even though Georgia had an awful baseball season.
It's weird stuff. I didn't see any Dodgers fans chanting "NL WEST!!!!" after the Giants won the World Series this year. It's like me talking up Big East basketball after Louisville grabs a big win, acting like WE accomplished something when my school hasn't even made the NCAA tournament since 1992 hahah.... >>
I think it speaks more to the respect the conference has for each of its members, and the conference as a whole. Imagine that they value the entire conference as much as their own team. You even hear about Alabama fans rooting for Auburn to win a national championship now, even after Auburn just beat them in a very important game. That's speaks to nothing but respect and love for each other, even though you try to beat the heck out of each other.
I think it speaks more to the respect the conference has for each of its members, and the conference as a whole. Imagine that they value the entire conference as much as their own team. You even hear about Alabama fans rooting for Auburn to win a national championship now, even after Auburn just beat them in a very important game. That's speaks to nothing but respect and love for each other, even though you try to beat the heck out of each other. >>
I understand that part. I cheer for the majority of Big East teams in non conference and bowl games because if they win it obviously helps the conferences reputation. However I feel like the SEC love most conference members exhibit is kind of beyond that, almost like conference itself trumps that persons favorite team at times. Most often you can't get through a discussion with an SEC fan without them some how bringing up the conference in any way shape or form. Things very quickly become SEC vs. the World and this thread shows that. I think it's part of a Southern pride thing as well.
I understand that part. I cheer for the majority of Big East teams in non conference and bowl games because if they win it obviously helps the conferences reputation. However I feel like the SEC love most conference members exhibit is kind of beyond that, almost like conference itself trumps that persons favorite team at times. Most often you can't get through a discussion with an SEC fan without them some how bringing up the conference in any way shape or form. Things very quickly become SEC vs. the World and this thread shows that. I think it's part of a Southern pride thing as well.
You are smart so far beyond your years Goot. Right on as always. You are much more level headed than most of us old guys on here. Great post as usual!
<< <i>I think the pac ten does pretty well in bowl games. They are 9-5 in BCS games.
They have performed well but the natural conference/bowl allignments are weak for the Pac 10. Holiday Bowl, Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl, etc.... They are all pre-New Years Day. Whereas a team like Iowa, in 4th or 5th place in the Big 10 will still get a New Year's Day game. Plus, it's often Pac 10 #2 versus Big 12 #4. Thus the Big 12, by example, has better/higher bowl allignments than the Pac 10. I assume the Pac 10 doesn't travel as well and is still considered a half a notch lower than the Big 12/Big 10/SEC it seems. >>
Thats probably true. The pac 10 probably dont travel as well. Still they are 9-5 in the bigger BCS bowl games. It looks like they will have 2 teams in BCS games this year.
I understand that part. I cheer for the majority of Big East teams in non conference and bowl games because if they win it obviously helps the conferences reputation. However I feel like the SEC love most conference members exhibit is kind of beyond that, almost like conference itself trumps that persons favorite team at times. Most often you can't get through a discussion with an SEC fan without them some how bringing up the conference in any way shape or form. Things very quickly become SEC vs. the World and this thread shows that. I think it's part of a Southern pride thing as well.
You are smart so far beyond your years Goot. Right on as always. You are much more level headed than most of us old guys on here. Great post as usual!
I feel a wrap around was involved with that post! lol
Should Oregon win and play Auburn, I would rather see Stanford play Wisconsin and keep the Pac 10 Big Ten rivalry alive in the Rosebowl.
As for TCU- Send them to the Orange Bowl in place of the Big East winner and let them play Ohio State- I know, its not going to happen
As for Iowa-South Carolina- didn't they play in a bowl last year. Iowa is a significantly better team than their record reflects- I think they will win where ever they play.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Should Oregon win and play Auburn, I would rather see Stanford play Wisconsin and keep the Pac 10 Big Ten rivalry alive in the Rosebowl.
As for TCU- Send them to the Orange Bowl in place of the Big East winner and let them play Ohio State- I know, its not going to happen
As for Iowa-South Carolina- didn't they play in a bowl last year. Iowa is a significantly better team than their record reflects- I think they will win where ever they play. >>
Iowa beat georgia tech in the orange bowl last year.
IF Auburn were to lose the SEC championship game who plays Oregon for the championship? Auburn? TCU? Stanford? Interesting to see two teams from the "soft" Pac 10 up there in the top 5.
<< <i>IF Auburn were to lose the SEC championship game who plays Oregon for the championship? Auburn? TCU? Stanford? Interesting to see two teams from the "soft" Pac 10 up there in the top 5. >>
How about this. If Oregon were to lose to Stanford in the Pac-10 Championship game, who would play Auburn (no SEC game) for the national championship ? TCU, Oregon, Stanford ?
Auburn went 12-0 just like TCU and Oregon did. To punish Auburn for a close loss to SC when they have survived what is nationall recognized as the toughest conference in the land is foolish. But...some will try to punish them out of pure jealousy.
Any team that loses this late in the season does not deserve to play in the BCS championship imo. I disagree that the sec is the toughest conference this year.
<< <i>IF Auburn were to lose the SEC championship game who plays Oregon for the championship? Auburn? TCU? Stanford? Interesting to see two teams from the "soft" Pac 10 up there in the top 5. >>
How about this. If Oregon were to lose to Stanford in the Pac-10 Championship game, who would play Auburn (no SEC game) for the national championship ? TCU, Oregon, Stanford ?
Auburn went 12-0 just like TCU and Oregon did. To punish Auburn for a close loss to SC when they have survived what is nationall recognized as the toughest conference in the land is foolish. But...some will try to punish them out of pure jealousy. >>
If there was a Pac10 championship game this year and Oregon lost they should not be playing for the national championship at all. True Oregon fans would not clamor for a place in the game if the above happened. Thats a fact Jack.
Comments
Let's go South Florida and Penn State! Both are underdogs in their matchup but maybe one can pull off a win?
To ME when the BCS came about the bowls have less importance as the focus was on the ONE game. It's too bad. Before the BCS the bowls had really meaning. Winning the Rose Bowl or the Cotton Bowl or the whatever bowl, against a traditional rival, was great. However, since the advent of the BCS things have changed in my opinion. To me, the thought of a second place Big 10 or Pac 10 team winning the Rose Bowl shows how trivial it is to all except a team with horrible football tradition like Minny or Cal.
As for Boise State's loss I am bummed. I liked having that buffer of Boise and TCU to make it tougher for a one loss team to leap frog them. If BYU beats Utah today that will further harm TCU and make it more likely for some one loss team to leap frog them... if Oregon and/or Auburn are to lose their next game. I still think Boise is an excellent football team and I hope they get to play in a meaningful bowl game. The sad part of the bowls is they are all locked up with major conference teams. Thus all bowls of meaning get the lesser teams from the big conferences. Boise would give any team from a big conference a game but instead they will probably play in a very low bowl left vacant by the Pac 10 not being able to fill their bowls due to having so many mediocre (or less) teams this year.
Further, watching 'bama in the first half shows even more how valuable a playoff would be. Your telling me if 'bama was the 16th seed in a 16 team playoff that they wouldn't have a good chance to win the whole thing!? It's really a shame that only two teams get to play for the championship. The bowls mean nothing and the championship game doesn't mean all it should.
<< <i>The Big Ten could not get an invitation to another bowl other than the Rosebowl until the mid to late 1970s >>
I believe that was the same thing with the Pac10 more or less.
"GO DUCKS"
Ken
Lets do the easy one first-
Fairlane... I believe you are correct and I should have included the Pac 8/10 when referencing the Rosebowl- Off hand, I do not know if that changed as to both conferences at the same time- it very well could have.
larryallen-
I guess you do not know who Lynn Waldorf was and to slam the football tradition at Cal and Minnesota is really is not appropriate.
Not only was Lynn Waldorf the greatest Coach at Cal, he lead them to championships in 1948, 1950 and 1951. Cal likely would have been National Champs at least one of those years had they not lost the Rosebowl game. The Cal football tradition is quite strong especially from the early 1920s through the time Waldorf retired. BTW, Waldorf was also the Northwestern coach in 1936 and is one of few College Football coaches that one a Big Ten and Pac 8 title- oddly Mike White, another Cal Head Coach can say the samething and perhaps that is something you do remember- Chuck Muncie & Company?
Lets discuss Minnesota football- Bernie Beirman followed by Murray Warmath were two great coaches by any standard. From 1900 through the mid 1960s, the Minnesota football program would likely rank in the top 15 for games won and probably higher for national championships.
Just because you have not been impressed with what Cal and Minnesota have done in recent history does not mean that either school does not have a proud football tradition-
Growing up in Southern Cal, you should hopefully have some recollection of Red Sanders and Tommy Prothro- I suspect we can discuss that in my next post
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Wow...
Lets do the easy one first-
Fairlane... I believe you are correct and I should have included the Pac 8/10 when referencing the Rosebowl- Off hand, I do not know if that changed as to both conferences at the same time- it very well could have.
larryallen-
I guess you do not know who Lynn Waldorf was and to slam the football tradition at Cal and Minnesota is really is not appropriate.
Not only was Lynn Waldorf the greatest Coach at Cal, he lead them to championships in 1948, 1950 and 1951. Cal likely would have been National Champs at least one of those years had they not lost the Rosebowl game. The Cal football tradition is quite strong especially from the early 1920s through the time Waldorf retired. BTW, Waldorf was also the Northwestern coach in 1936 and is one of few College Football coaches that one a Big Ten and Pac 8 title- oddly Mike White, another Cal Head Coach can say the samething and perhaps that is something you do remember- Chuck Muncie & Company?
Lets discuss Minnesota football- Bernie Beirman followed by Murray Warmath were two great coaches by any standard. From 1900 through the mid 1960s, the Minnesota football program would likely rank in the top 15 for games won and probably higher for national championships.
Just because you have not been impressed with what Cal and Minnesota have done in recent history does not mean that either school does not have a proud football tradition-
Growing up in Southern Cal, you should hopefully have some recollection of Red Sanders and Tommy Prothro- I suspect we can discuss that in my next post >>
Indeed. Minnesota has a pretty good history with 18 big ten championships and some national championships.
As for Boise state, i stayed up til 2 am to watch that crazy game. Boise state had the game won with 1 second left in the 4th quarter. That 60 yrd bomb by Moore and that great diving catch. Cant believe their kicker missed 2 easy field goals. What a shame Boise lost that game.
The answer is Minnesota
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Seriously? I respect your posts and appreciate your history lesson (yes, I know who Prothro and Sanders were) and I, at times (as a huge UCLA hoops fan) resort to history lessons. However, the fact is that neither Cal nor Minnesota has been relevant in my lifetime (40+ years). So maybe I am narrow minded as I only care about my lifetime but it's hard for me to give much credibility to Cal or Minny's "tradition" that happened many generations ago. What they did in the 1940's or 50's is long ago history. It's a different discusion. My only point was that about the only teams that really get excited about the Rose Bowl now would be teams that haven't sniffed a rose in generations (like Minny and Cal and probably a few others). It was a simple statement. I don't think UCLA would be as excited about the Rose Bowl, if they were a second place Pac 10 finisher, as they were in the 80's when they won it 3 out of 4 years. It meant substantially more back then.
Speaking of history I read an artlce years ago, I think in the LA Times, about the finding of old bowl trophies at St. Mary's College (in Moraga, CA). Now a decent hoops school. Back in the 80's they found some old bowl trophies. For example, little St. Mary's won the Cotton Bowl in 1939. It's cool history and not much before the time of Cal and Minny's great "football tradition." If you want to read more about St. Mary's great football tradition check the web; it's really quite interesting.
<< <i>
SEC record vs Notre Dame - 12-19
SEC vs Michigan - 5-19-1
SEC vs USC - 10-17-1
SEC vs Nebraska - 4-12
SEC vs Penn state - 17-17
SEC vs Texas - 16-34-2
SEC vs Oklahoma - 9-19-3
>>
Is that the best you can do ? Take the entire conference and pit it against some of the top programs in the country ?
Yeah, I'd love to know how Vanderbilt has done against Penn State, or how Mississippi State has done against Oklahoma.
<< <i> What a shame Boise lost that game. >>
Actually, it's just Boise acting like a team that plays against Div. 2 schools. Boise is 2-4 in its last six bowl games.
They fold when a little bit of pressure comes their way. So it's not a shame at all. They just did what they tend to do.
National Champions - 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941 and 1960
Tradition is measured from the beginning to the present day- Seriously, Minnesota has a football tradition other schools wish they had.
Off hand, I am not sure how conference Championships Cal has- I suspect at least 10-12
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Minnesota- 18 Big Ten Championships
National Champions - 1934, 1935, 1936, 1940, 1941 and 1960
Tradition is measured from the beginning to the present day- Seriously, Minnesota has a football tradition other schools wish they had.
Off hand, I am not sure how conference Championships Cal has- I suspect at least 10-12 >>
University of Washington was the true National Champion in 1960 as the only one loss team that year and also beating Minnesota in the Rose Bowl 17-7. Gophers ended the year with 2 losses. Sorry.
Stupidly the National Championship was given out at the end of the regular season.
<< <i>
<< <i>
SEC record vs Notre Dame - 12-19
SEC vs Michigan - 5-19-1
SEC vs USC - 10-17-1
SEC vs Nebraska - 4-12
SEC vs Penn state - 17-17
SEC vs Texas - 16-34-2
SEC vs Oklahoma - 9-19-3
>>
Is that the best you can do ? Take the entire conference and pit it against some of the top programs in the country ?
Yeah, I'd love to know how Vanderbilt has done against Penn State, or how Mississippi State has done against Oklahoma. >>
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC
<< <i>
<< <i> What a shame Boise lost that game. >>
Actually, it's just Boise acting like a team that plays against Div. 2 schools. Boise is 2-4 in its last six bowl games.
They fold when a little bit of pressure comes their way. So it's not a shame at all. They just did what they tend to do. >>
It was a shame because Boise had the game won against a top 20 team on the road. I realize that kicking is part of the game, but the only player that lost the game for them was the kicker.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC >>
The SEC holds an 259-126-10 (.668) all-time advantage against the ACC.
The SEC leads the Pac-10 all time 62-39-5 (.608).
Through 2009, the SEC leads the Big Ten with a 67-48-2 all-time record.
The SEC leads the Big 12 in all time head to head matchups with a 24-17-0 record (.585)
And here are the conference records since the BCS starting having BCS games. These are all BCS games only,
and feature the best teams from those conferences. Guess who's on top ?
Highest Winning Percentages By Conference
Conference Percentage (Record)
Southeastern 737 (14-5)
Mountain West 667 (2-1)
WAC 667 (2-1)
Pacific-10 643 (9-5)
Big East 500 (6-6)
Big Ten 476 (10-11)
Big 12 412 (7-10)
Atlantic Coast167 (2-10)
Independents ie Notre Dame 000 (0-3)
For sure! Your team's future is bright!
<< <i>
<< <i>
Alabama is 1-5 against Notre dame, 1-2 vs Michigan 8-5 vs penn state, 1-2-1 vs Oklahoma, 1-7-1 vs Texas, 5-2 vs USC >>
The SEC holds an 259-126-10 (.668) all-time advantage against the ACC.
The SEC leads the Pac-10 all time 62-39-5 (.608).
Through 2009, the SEC leads the Big Ten with a 67-48-2 all-time record.
The SEC leads the Big 12 in all time head to head matchups with a 24-17-0 record (.585)
And here are the conference records since the BCS starting having BCS games. These are all BCS games only,
and feature the best teams from those conferences. Guess who's on top ?
Highest Winning Percentages By Conference
Conference Percentage (Record)
Southeastern 737 (14-5)
Mountain West 667 (2-1)
WAC 667 (2-1)
Pacific-10 643 (9-5)
Big East 500 (6-6)
Big Ten 476 (10-11)
Big 12 412 (7-10)
Atlantic Coast167 (2-10)
Independents ie Notre Dame 000 (0-3) >>
The sec has just 4 more wins than the big ten. Not bad for the big ten considering none of the BCS bowls are played in the midwest.
BCS appearances:
Big ten (21)
sec (19)
big 12 (17)
pac 10 (14)
Most BCS appearances (ohio state)
Most BCS wins (USC)
<< <i>Updated bowl projections >>
UCONN in the Orange bowl? Didnt Michigan beat them this year?
I think Wisconsin will crush TCU.
<< <i>
<< <i>Updated bowl projections >>
UCONN in the Orange bowl? Didnt Michigan beat them this year?
>>
The Big East sucks. If UConn beats South Florida next week, then they clinch the Big Eat title. If we beat UConn, and West Virginia wins then WVU gets the title. UConn owns the tie breaker with Pitt and WVU because they managed to beat both teams in OT this season.
I really hope we pull off the win, WVU would represent the Big East much better. They've been a bit inconsistent at times but they actually gave LSU a pretty decent game down in Baton Rouge this year.
Big East Standings
TEAM CONF OVERALL
Connecticut 4-2 7-4
West Virginia 4-2 8-3
Pittsburgh 4-2 6-5
Syracuse 4-3 7-5
South Florida 3-3 7-4
Louisville 3-4 6-6
Cincinnati 2-4 4-7
Rutgers 1-5 4-7
Looks like the SEC East.
Certainly Wisky has been crushing teams but TCU has a very good defense and, this year, a good offense.
I think it will be a great game.
Wisky will be favored by 7 or so but I think TCU will make it a good game... and I hope they win!
<< <i>
Most BCS appearances (ohio state)
Most BCS wins (USC) >>
Here, let me fix that for you..............
Most BCS embarrassing appearances (ohio state)
Most BCS wins with no championship (USC)
Most BCS championships SEC 6-0
<< <i>
<< <i>
Most BCS appearances (ohio state)
Most BCS wins (USC) >>
Here, let me fix that for you..............
Most BCS embarrassing appearances (ohio state)
Not
Most BCS wins with no championship (USC)
2004 national champions
>>
<< <i>I think Wisconsin will crush TCU.
Certainly Wisky has been crushing teams but TCU has a very good defense and, this year, a good offense.
! >>
Ohio state has a better defense(#3 in the nation) and wisconsin ran on them at will. Wisconsin has 3 different running backs with at least 600 yrds. I could be wrong but i predict wisconsin wins easily.
I do think Wisconsin is a great team. However, I really think TCU will give them a game. I think TCU will give them more of a game than Boise would have. Boise would match up better with almost any other BCS team than Wisky so I guess it's lucky they lossed.
Also, I find it interesting that Iowa (at 7-5) is still predicted for a New Year's Day game (Outback) against South Carolina. I know Iowa travels very well but 9-3 South Carolina is better than Iowa, no!? The other conferences do much better than my Pac 10 in bowl games.
<< <i>The SEC v. the rest of the world arguments are funny. The fact is the SEC is the best conference but it's not as better than the rest than the SEC fans think. However, there is no argument that will ever sway an SEC fan to even think it's possible anybody else is near them. It's silly to argue. College football means the world to the people in SEC country. God, country, family, SEC football... in no particular order.
I do think Wisconsin is a great team. However, I really think TCU will give them a game. I think TCU will give them more of a game than Boise would have. Boise would match up better with almost any other BCS team than Wisky so I guess it's lucky they lossed.
Also, I find it interesting that Iowa (at 7-5) is still predicted for a New Year's Day game (Outback) against South Carolina. I know Iowa travels very well but 9-3 South Carolina is better than Iowa, no!? The other conferences do much better than my Pac 10 in bowl games. >>
I think the pac ten does pretty well in bowl games. They are 9-5 in BCS games. Only conference with 2 teams in the top 5 this year. I think Iowa vs south carolina is a great matchup. Iowa went toe to toe with Wisconsin and is the only team to beat Michigan state this year.
They have performed well but the natural conference/bowl allignments are weak for the Pac 10. Holiday Bowl, Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl, etc.... They are all pre-New Years Day. Whereas a team like Iowa, in 4th or 5th place in the Big 10 will still get a New Year's Day game. Plus, it's often Pac 10 #2 versus Big 12 #4. Thus the Big 12, by example, has better/higher bowl allignments than the Pac 10. I assume the Pac 10 doesn't travel as well and is still considered a half a notch lower than the Big 12/Big 10/SEC it seems.
Until someone knocks us off the top of the hill, we have bragging rights.
It's weird stuff. I didn't see any Dodgers fans chanting "NL WEST!!!!" after the Giants won the World Series this year. It's like me talking up Big East basketball after Louisville grabs a big win, acting like WE accomplished something when my school hasn't even made the NCAA tournament since 1992 hahah....
Exactly. One of the gals in my office came in wearing Giant's gear during the World Series and I (jokingly) told her she was fired. She told me the Dodgers were her favorite team but she was rooting for California. I was like, no I don't think so.
<< <i>The thing I find funny is the SEC fans from schools like Ole Miss or Kentucky (not talking about basketball here) that brag about the SEC and playing in that conference, despite having not done much to help the SEC's reputation. They do the same thing for other sports too. Last year during the NCAA baseball tournament the Rivals college baseball board has multiple threads with titles like "SEC! SEC! SEC!". I remember one was started by a Georgia fan after South Carolina won the College World series last year even though Georgia had an awful baseball season.
It's weird stuff. I didn't see any Dodgers fans chanting "NL WEST!!!!" after the Giants won the World Series this year. It's like me talking up Big East basketball after Louisville grabs a big win, acting like WE accomplished something when my school hasn't even made the NCAA tournament since 1992 hahah.... >>
I think it speaks more to the respect the conference has for each of its members, and the conference as a whole.
Imagine that they value the entire conference as much as their own team. You even hear about Alabama fans rooting
for Auburn to win a national championship now, even after Auburn just beat them in a very important game. That's
speaks to nothing but respect and love for each other, even though you try to beat the heck out of each other.
<< <i>
I think it speaks more to the respect the conference has for each of its members, and the conference as a whole.
Imagine that they value the entire conference as much as their own team. You even hear about Alabama fans rooting
for Auburn to win a national championship now, even after Auburn just beat them in a very important game. That's
speaks to nothing but respect and love for each other, even though you try to beat the heck out of each other. >>
I understand that part. I cheer for the majority of Big East teams in non conference and bowl games because if they win it obviously helps the conferences reputation. However I feel like the SEC love most conference members exhibit is kind of beyond that, almost like conference itself trumps that persons favorite team at times. Most often you can't get through a discussion with an SEC fan without them some how bringing up the conference in any way shape or form. Things very quickly become SEC vs. the World and this thread shows that. I think it's part of a Southern pride thing as well.
You are smart so far beyond your years Goot. Right on as always. You are much more level headed than most of us old guys on here. Great post as usual!
<< <i>I think the pac ten does pretty well in bowl games. They are 9-5 in BCS games.
They have performed well but the natural conference/bowl allignments are weak for the Pac 10. Holiday Bowl, Sun Bowl, Alamo Bowl, etc.... They are all pre-New Years Day. Whereas a team like Iowa, in 4th or 5th place in the Big 10 will still get a New Year's Day game. Plus, it's often Pac 10 #2 versus Big 12 #4. Thus the Big 12, by example, has better/higher bowl allignments than the Pac 10. I assume the Pac 10 doesn't travel as well and is still considered a half a notch lower than the Big 12/Big 10/SEC it seems. >>
Thats probably true. The pac 10 probably dont travel as well. Still they are 9-5 in the bigger BCS bowl games. It looks like they will have 2 teams in BCS games this year.
You are smart so far beyond your years Goot. Right on as always. You are much more level headed than most of us old guys on here. Great post as usual!
I feel a wrap around was involved with that post! lol
As for TCU- Send them to the Orange Bowl in place of the Big East winner and let them play Ohio State- I know, its not going to happen
As for Iowa-South Carolina- didn't they play in a bowl last year. Iowa is a significantly better team than their record reflects- I think they will win where ever they play.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>Should Oregon win and play Auburn, I would rather see Stanford play Wisconsin and keep the Pac 10 Big Ten rivalry alive in the Rosebowl.
As for TCU- Send them to the Orange Bowl in place of the Big East winner and let them play Ohio State- I know, its not going to happen
As for Iowa-South Carolina- didn't they play in a bowl last year. Iowa is a significantly better team than their record reflects- I think they will win where ever they play. >>
Iowa beat georgia tech in the orange bowl last year.
Iowa beat South Carolina 31-10 in the Outback Bowl January 1, 2009
I see Iowa as the best 7-5 team in the country.
OSU -TCU and Wisconsin- Stanford would be better match ups than OSU-Arkansas and Wisconsin-TCU
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>IF Auburn were to lose the SEC championship game who plays Oregon for the championship? Auburn? TCU? Stanford? Interesting to see two teams from the "soft" Pac 10 up there in the top 5. >>
How about this. If Oregon were to lose to Stanford in the Pac-10 Championship game, who would play Auburn (no SEC game)
for the national championship ? TCU, Oregon, Stanford ?
Auburn went 12-0 just like TCU and Oregon did. To punish Auburn for a close loss to SC when they have survived what is
nationall recognized as the toughest conference in the land is foolish. But...some will try to punish them out of pure jealousy.
<< <i>
<< <i>IF Auburn were to lose the SEC championship game who plays Oregon for the championship? Auburn? TCU? Stanford? Interesting to see two teams from the "soft" Pac 10 up there in the top 5. >>
How about this. If Oregon were to lose to Stanford in the Pac-10 Championship game, who would play Auburn (no SEC game)
for the national championship ? TCU, Oregon, Stanford ?
Auburn went 12-0 just like TCU and Oregon did. To punish Auburn for a close loss to SC when they have survived what is
nationall recognized as the toughest conference in the land is foolish. But...some will try to punish them out of pure jealousy. >>
If there was a Pac10 championship game this year and Oregon lost they should not be playing for the national championship at all. True Oregon fans would not clamor for a place in the game if the above happened. Thats a fact Jack.
Ken