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Yet another scam to be aware of in the hobby..

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  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...It has larger implications for the auto-on-card industry as a whole, IMO. ..."

    //////////////////////

    I quite agree.

    ....

    Did you crop the sig before you asked for the QO?

    Or, did QO know it was a specific TOPPS card?

    .................................

    I have a tough time thinking AP would risk lying to
    TOPPS about who signed the sigs. Just seems not
    worth the risk.


    I can see some corporations doing some things to
    increase revs.

    I just dunno what to think.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭
    On the QO, you just send them the ebay item # and they look it up on their own.
    I requested only an opinion on the Pujols.
    So in other words, they saw the whole card.




  • Heres one that was pulled from a back today on another card board.

    image
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    As I stated earlier in the thread, the autos are off. I agree with that, but I think it is a Topps issue and not a scam. Well unless you count Topps putting suspect stickers into a product a scam. The theory that someone is peeling the real ones and putting them on base cards and replacing the TTT with a poor fake is ludicrous.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...Heres one that was pulled from a pack today on another card board..."

    ///////////////////

    It likely was.

    However, I would like to see one pulled by anybody we know
    here, who would give a firsthand account.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.


  • << <i>Heres one that was pulled from a back today on another card board.

    image >>



    That one is authentic.
  • I know image
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    A couple of points:

    1) Stan, I think you're kind of nutty, but I will give you all the credit in the world for a) offering to ante up on PSA's quick opinion, and b) being right about the outcome. There's nothing else to say-- you were right about that, and you deserve to be acknowledged for that.

    2) Unless we know the % of 'false negatives' that PSA/DNA hands out-- and we have no way of knowing that, for obvious reasons-- it's hard to say that that this matter has been conclusively resolved. For all I know PSA/DNA passes out 'likely not genuines' to 80% of the legitimate autos out there, which means this discussion of exactly what's going on-- if, indeed, something 'is' going on- should still be up for debate.
  • Thank you for the support, guys. We have to stick together on this stuff, instead of fighting against each other, if we want to help our hobby. I am sick of the scammers, and wish stuff like this did not have to be discussed on a constant basis, but if we don't, we all lose in the end.

    Ironman,

    Thanks for the kinds words and support. Yeah, I know what you're saying on Musial, but not all of us plan to retire on our cards. LOL.. image

    EDIT: To add comments


  • << <i>Thank you for the support, guys. We have to stick together on this stuff, instead of fighting against each other, if we want to help our hobby. I am sick of the scammers, and wish stuff like this did not have to be discussed on a constant basis, but if we don't, we all lose in the end.

    >>



    This is very interesting coming from you considering you are the one who turned it from a discussion into a fight....
    www.sportsnutcards.com
    Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    He is currently busy altering his Halloween costume from Pujols to Super Pujols.


  • << <i>

    << <i>Thank you for the support, guys. We have to stick together on this stuff, instead of fighting against each other, if we want to help our hobby. I am sick of the scammers, and wish stuff like this did not have to be discussed on a constant basis, but if we don't, we all lose in the end.

    >>



    This is very interesting coming from you considering you are the one who turned it from a discussion into a fight.... >>



    So when someone pops off, I am suppose to say nothing? Sorry, I have a hard time accepting that.


  • << <i>

    Hammer,

    Thank you for coming straight. I have some added respect for you, as that's not something many of the people who don't like me on here will do.

    I also hope my haters on the FCB message boards will stop insulting me, spreading lies, and admit they were wrong. Gilmo, leathtech, pinetar, justinmandawg, ect.. You all have a lot of egg on your faces.

    As I have said from the start, I know Pujols signature as well as anyone in the hobby. I'm not trying to brag or come off as arrogant, just being honest.

    Now, there is more to get to the bottom of this matter. I will do my part. >>



    Doesn't surprise me, those guys are a bunch of clowns.
  • Definitely got good for the hobby if Albert let someone else sign his autograph for him. As far as someone watching the sticker sheets signed maybe it is a case by case situation. I have asked players I know about the process. In each instance I was told they receive the sticker sheets with any instructions. They sign them when they have time and send them back. Does Albert have any cards without a gigantic cloud of controversy hanging over it? It does not seem easy to be a Pujols card collector.
  • Who popped off? Because I questioned your theory, I popped off? Isnt a contrasting viewpoint the beginning of a discussion? Or do we all just have to agree with what you say because you say so?
    www.sportsnutcards.com
    Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ


  • << <i>Who popped off? Because I questioned your theory, I popped off? Isnt a contrasting viewpoint the beginning of a discussion? Or do we all just have to agree with what you say because you say so? >>



    I did not pop off, until the nonsense started toward me. Yes, then I popped back.

    No, you or anyone else does not have to agree with me, but at least debate the stuff I laid on the table, and keep the personal insults out of the thread(the ones who started that know who they are).
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    Sometimes a hommie steps outta line and pops off and you just gotta represent.

    image
  • Ted,

    This is your snide words that got us at each other to start the problem:

    <<Because i dont think everyone is as much of an expert as they think they are.>>

    If you don't think that comment does not irritate a person to stoke the flames, then you are greatly mistaken. Comments like that, and your mouthing about me on FCB sorta caused some hard feelings.
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    One thing for sure, Albert Pujols is a great ball player
  • My take on this whole affair.....

    1.) Topps used a batch of older stickers on this years cards for Pujols which Pujols may or may not have signed. His signature is so sloppy it wouldnt surprise me if a batch was signed when he was intoxicated or in a rush so it came out a little different than expected. Or he possibly had one of his relatives crank out a batch for him.

    2.) No one pulled off original stickers as originally proposed and put on fakes. For one it would destroy the sig/sticker and probably damage the card and secondly what would you do with the sticker....place it on your Pujols Pajamas?

    3.) Topps has used different color sig sitckers in the past on a variety of multiple signature products so that fact in itself does not surprise me.

    4.) PSA/DNA quick opinion means very little as does sending in cards to PSA/DNA for anyone who has experience with autograph submittals. It can be avery random and frustrating process at times.

    5.) Even if the Sticker could be removed seamlessly there is little to no resale value on a sticker Auto removed from a card.



    At the end of the day I think this is much adieu about nothing.



  • a very entertaining read thus far. drama, lies, intrigue, zealous fans, jockstrap sniffers and the like. Like sands through the hourglass these are the Pujols of our lives.
  • I agree with DrJ.

    But if the stickers were signed by someone other than Pujols, that isn't really much adieu about nothing. Especially when you consider what some have paid for their Pujols autos. And some people have made a point of collecting them, they may have spent thousands. I'm sure they would consider it fraud.

  • sportscardtheorysportscardtheory Posts: 1,786 ✭✭✭
    If it turns out these are not Albert's autograph, Topps will have to be accountable and send out real ones to those who own the cards. They are certified by Topps, so they will have to fix any problems with inauthentic autos on their out-of-the-pack cards.
  • RipublicaninMassRipublicaninMass Posts: 10,051 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If it turns out these are not Albert's autograph, Topps will have to be accountable and send out real ones to those who own the cards. They are certified by Topps, so they will have to fix any problems with inauthentic autos on their out-of-the-pack cards. >>



    So Topps would clearly ever admit this
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I agree with DrJ.

    But if the stickers were signed by someone other than Pujols, that isn't really much adieu about nothing. Especially when you consider what some have paid for their Pujols autos. And some people have made a point of collecting them, they may have spent thousands. I'm sure they would consider it fraud. >>




    Totally agree. Not only that, but it calls into question prior "scams" - were those fake autos really forged by ebay sellers, or were they just signed by Albert's cousins?

    I'm not suggesting the seller scams didn't take place, but it's now obvious in some instances, a suspected forged Pujols auto could have been forged before the product's release.

    Let's say Topps already has a batch of these TTT cards (or any other Pujols card) ready to go with serial #'s and/or other players' sigs already on them. But they can't get any more Albert autos, cuz he's a busy guy and the release deadline is coming up. Maybe they pull stickers from a prior batch, or maybe they just have the mailroom guys finish them off.

    Look, auto'd and memorabilia cards are what drives the modern card market these days. The more autos you put in, the more product you sell. And if you can't include popular autos like Albert, Jeter, etc, collectors aren't going to spend good money on your boxes. All I'm saying is that I can understand the pressure to include as many of these autos as possible, even if it means failing to verify that they are legit.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...All I'm saying is that I can understand the pressure to include as many of these autos as possible, even if it means failing to verify that they are legit. ..."

    ///////////////////////////////////

    Failing to verify the autos is substantially different than
    having the "mailroom guys" sign the stickers.

    Negligence - even if it is not excusable - is not fraud.

    If TOPPS was "negligent," they should say so and fix
    the problem by quickly replacing suspect cards, AND
    by tightening up the process so the problem stops.
    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭
    Here's my two Tommy John cards I referenced pages ago. To me these two autographs look pretty different. Granted I do not know crap about autographs. I buy some cheap cards, like these, and that's about it. However, to me they look very different from each other. My only point is one player can have vastly different signatures just like you and I can... as they are human beings.

    image
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    Tommy John sigs come in lots of different styles.

    Both of the above might be legit.

    You can find 12+ different styles online.

    The SP looks close to the most recognized ones.

    There were lots of prescribed meds tried by him
    during much of his adult life. Different meds can
    affect the way folks sign.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • swartz1swartz1 Posts: 4,911 ✭✭✭
    what I really want to know is...

    are the Pujols auto's shown in the new beckett (with Sanchez on the cover) legit?

    they are in the hot list section...

    thanks


    Looking for 1970 MLB Photostamps
    - uncut


    Positive Transactions - tennesseebanker, Ahmanfan, Donruss, Colebear, CDsNuts, rbdjr1, Downtown1974, yankeeno7, drewsef, mnolan, mrbud60, msassin, RipublicaninMass, AkbarClone, rustywilly, lsutigers1973, julen23 and nam812, plus many others...
  • So who is calling Topps on Monday? This has the potential to be a huge story.


  • << <i>what I really want to know is...

    are the Pujols auto's shown in the new beckett (with Sanchez on the cover) legit?

    they are in the hot list section...

    thanks >>




    The Fleer Legacy they picture is an obvious forgery
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "So who is calling Topps on Monday? This has the potential to be a huge story. "

    ////////////////////////////

    More QO rejects would make the story better.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.


  • << <i>"So who is calling Topps on Monday? This has the potential to be a huge story. " //////////////////////////// More QO rejects would make the story better. >>

    agreed. Someone needs to bite the bullet and buy one that is called a fake then send it to psa/dna. If psa/dna will not certify the Pujols auto then we have a story.
  • IronmanfanIronmanfan Posts: 5,424 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Here's my two Tommy John cards I referenced pages ago. To me these two autographs look pretty different. Granted I do not know crap about autographs. I buy some cheap cards, like these, and that's about it. However, to me they look very different from each other. My only point is one player can have vastly different signatures just like you and I can... as they are human beings.

    image >>



    I can denote multiple similarities in those John autographs
    Successful dealings with Wcsportscards94558, EagleEyeKid, SamsGirl214, Volver, DwayneDrain, Oaksey25, Griffins, Cardfan07, Etc.


  • << <i>Here's my two Tommy John cards I referenced pages ago. To me these two autographs look pretty different. Granted I do not know crap about autographs. I buy some cheap cards, like these, and that's about it. However, to me they look very different from each other. My only point is one player can have vastly different signatures just like you and I can... as they are human beings.

    image >>



    Here are a couple of mine.

    imageimage
    Collecting PSA graded Steve Young, Marcus Allen, Bret Saberhagen and 1980s Topps Cards.
    Raw: Tony Gonzalez (low #'d cards, and especially 1/1's) and Steve Young.
  • AMAZING TROLLS FOUND ON THIS THREAD:

    1 VITAGECARDLOVER.... signed up in september but only posts against Pujols....


    2. Hammered...once again a new user who only shows up in Pujols threads

    3. Schwatz..upset that his phillies are losing to the Yanks, again trolling this thread....

    4 . Dr J..a notorious Fandango Troll and Pujols hater

    you four should be banned for advancing Lies and pushing lies...


    HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU THREE NOW INCINUATED THAT PUJOLS DOES NOT SIGN HIS OWN STUFF? 4 threads 5 threads?

    its clear you all three have a MAJOR AGENDA against Pujols, your Obvious ALTS of PUJOLS HATERS...



    these bad autos are being sold by QUESTIONABLE SELLERS...there is a fraud.....HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ACCUSE PUJOLS OF NOT SIGNING his AUTOS

    KEEP ACCUSING PUJOLS OF A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMITT AND SEE WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT TO YOU...

    you may think your anonomous and tough behind a keyboard but guess what , you have an IP address that can be chased if you are suspected of a crime

    so keep spouting lies if you must, i have a printer and some good connections who owe me......
  • WinPitcherWinPitcher Posts: 27,726 ✭✭✭
    Oh shutup.


    And you listed 4 names not 3.

    Steve
    Good for you.
  • mccardguy1mccardguy1 Posts: 1,507 ✭✭✭


    << <i>AMAZING TROLLS FOUND ON THIS THREAD:

    1 VITAGECARDLOVER.... signed up in september but only posts against Pujols....


    2. Hammered...once again a new user who only shows up in Pujols threads

    3. Schwatz..upset that his phillies are losing to the Yanks, again trolling this thread....

    4 . Dr J..a notorious Fandango Troll and Pujols hater

    you four should be banned for advancing Lies and pushing lies...


    HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU THREE NOW INCINUATED THAT PUJOLS DOES NOT SIGN HIS OWN STUFF? 4 threads 5 threads?

    its clear you all three have a MAJOR AGENDA against Pujols, your Obvious ALTS of PUJOLS HATERS...



    these bad autos are being sold by QUESTIONABLE SELLERS...there is a fraud.....HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ACCUSE PUJOLS OF NOT SIGNING his AUTOS

    KEEP ACCUSING PUJOLS OF A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMITT AND SEE WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT TO YOU...

    you may think your anonomous and tough behind a keyboard but guess what , you have an IP address that can be chased if you are suspected of a crime

    so keep spouting lies if you must, i have a printer and some good connections who owe me...... >>




    Lighten up Francis!!
    I am on a budget and I am not afraid to use it!!
  • larryallen73larryallen73 Posts: 6,055 ✭✭✭
    AMAZING TROLLS FOUND ON THIS THREAD:

    1 VITAGECARDLOVER.... signed up in september but only posts against Pujols....


    2. Hammered...once again a new user who only shows up in Pujols threads

    3. Schwatz..upset that his phillies are losing to the Yanks, again trolling this thread....

    4 . Dr J..a notorious Fandango Troll and Pujols hater

    you four should be banned for advancing Lies and pushing lies...


    HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU THREE NOW INCINUATED THAT PUJOLS DOES NOT SIGN HIS OWN STUFF? 4 threads 5 threads?

    its clear you all three have a MAJOR AGENDA against Pujols, your Obvious ALTS of PUJOLS HATERS...



    these bad autos are being sold by QUESTIONABLE SELLERS...there is a fraud.....HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ACCUSE PUJOLS OF NOT SIGNING his AUTOS

    KEEP ACCUSING PUJOLS OF A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMITT AND SEE WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT TO YOU...

    you may think your anonomous and tough behind a keyboard but guess what , you have an IP address that can be chased if you are suspected of a crime

    so keep spouting lies if you must, i have a printer and some good connections who owe me......



    LOL! That is classic Fandango and why people dislike him. EVERYTHING in life is about people going after Pujols. It's just sad and pathetic that you are so singulary focused in life. People do not troll you. It's just that you open your mouth and say the most ludicrous things that some of us respond. I try to resist the easy openings you and your other Fandango nut job friend leave open but then you spout off with this junk and I can't resist. Really dude lighten up. This is a stupid baseball card message board. Lighten up. Go sniff your jock strap. Oh ya, and GET A LIFE!
  • Yaaah??? What about Bill, I'm pretty sure he was about ready to give us all a roundhouse kick to the head, just for good measure...


    That's good goin Bill. image
  • hammeredhammered Posts: 2,671 ✭✭✭


    << <i>AMAZING TROLLS FOUND ON THIS THREAD:

    1 VITAGECARDLOVER.... signed up in september but only posts against Pujols....


    2. Hammered...once again a new user who only shows up in Pujols threads

    3. Schwatz..upset that his phillies are losing to the Yanks, again trolling this thread....

    4 . Dr J..a notorious Fandango Troll and Pujols hater

    you four should be banned for advancing Lies and pushing lies...


    HOW MANY TIME HAVE YOU THREE NOW INCINUATED THAT PUJOLS DOES NOT SIGN HIS OWN STUFF? 4 threads 5 threads?

    its clear you all three have a MAJOR AGENDA against Pujols, your Obvious ALTS of PUJOLS HATERS...



    these bad autos are being sold by QUESTIONABLE SELLERS...there is a fraud.....HOW DARE YOU TRY TO ACCUSE PUJOLS OF NOT SIGNING his AUTOS

    KEEP ACCUSING PUJOLS OF A CRIME HE DIDNT COMMITT AND SEE WHAT MAY HAPPEN NEXT TO YOU...

    you may think your anonomous and tough behind a keyboard but guess what , you have an IP address that can be chased if you are suspected of a crime

    so keep spouting lies if you must, i have a printer and some good connections who owe me...... >>






    fandango, my IQ drops several points each time I read your posts
  • AllenAllen Posts: 7,165 ✭✭✭
    LMAO
  • zep33zep33 Posts: 6,897 ✭✭✭
    image


  • << <i>LMAO >>




    Oh ya, he can guage our pain with the edge of his foot. image
  • Sorry Allen, you were laughing at hammards post right. Heh heh.
  • Well I'm going with hammered today, friggin fandango makes me stupid.
  • TNP777TNP777 Posts: 5,711 ✭✭✭
    Scott, with diatribes like that, is it any wonder people jump all over you? I guarantee that if you didn't come across SO strongly on Pujols-related subjects, he'd be a better respected, more well-liked player around here. Unfortunately, so many times now you've come across as seriously unhinged (especially this latest posting) that neither you or Pujols are going to be cast in a favorable light. Now, I'm pretty sure you could give a rip about whether you're liked or respected by the people you claim are stalking you and your player, but take a minute to ask yourself about whether you've thrown kerosene on the fire (in large quantities).

    Serious questions have been raised in this thread about the authenticity of Pujols' autos in TTT - the initial claim or belief that there was a country-wide conspiracy to peel legit autos and replace them with forged ones is of course ludicrous. However, I don't think there's too much doubt in the minds of many who don't have a vested interest in Pujols that something is fishy here. Are they old autos? Are they ghosted? Is there monkey business at Topps? Given the popularity, collectability and expense of Pujols items, many here feel the questions need to be answered, not attacked with crazy threats. You ask "how dare you try to accuse Pujols..." How dare we not? People pay top dollar for his stuff - if its authenticity is in doubt, then you've got to agree that steps should be taken to find out what's going on, including ensuring that Pujols signed 100% of the 'certified' stuff that's out there. Nobody has accused him of a crime; questions are simply being asked, theories posited. You talk about being anonymous and tough behind a keyboard, yet you threaten to call in some favors and go after those who 'dare' to question Pujols.

    Meh, I'm done.
  • yikes.

    Go ahead and be upset with me if you want but it's a very fair thing to wonder if Albert signed the stickers. I know the guy does a lot for society and such but from where I sit it is just as likely a scenario as a crook ripping cards apart and switching stickers.
  • storm888storm888 Posts: 11,701 ✭✭✭
    "...but from where I sit it is just as likely a scenario as a crook ripping cards apart and switching stickers. ..."

    ...............................................

    Prolly not "just as likely," but at least possible; though I REALLY
    doubt AP would do something so stupid.

    What would the reward be? A few hours of time "saved."

    What would the risk be? A crushed reputation, loss of contracts,
    potential litigation that would smash the value of lots of autos.

    I just cannot see any high-end player making that bet.

    Many corporations, OTOH, might place such a wager.

    .............

    At this point, if the subject cards cannot find their way into PSA/DNA
    slabs, it is TOPPS that needs to offer the first set of explanations.

    Folks Who Bite Get Bitten. Folks Who Don't Bite Get Eaten.
  • BoopottsBoopotts Posts: 6,784 ✭✭
    image


    LEAVE ALBERT ALONE!!
This discussion has been closed.