Hey Fandango... .Stop talking in the third person, your multiple personality meds are wearing off. And your thinly veiled threats are as hilarious as ever. You PMed me physical harm before and never backed it up. I sent you my address and I am still waiting kid for your best shot. You are a classic internet tough guy. Go get a dog if you are scared!!!
And...I take offense to you calling me a hater of Fandango. I don't hate on clincally insane individuals. Go back in your hole right after you finish up your latest private sports card investigation.....
I gave my thoughts/theory after what I witnessed at the last St. Louis show.
Here is what I stated:
<<At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice.>>
We all know how there are so many fake Topps/Bowman Pujols buyback autos that are floating around in those buyback holders, and we know who/what seller/s have sold a ton of them on Ebay over a period of time. My thoughts on how these TTT fake Pujols autos are hitting the market might not be spot on, we don't know for sure at this point, but we do know the Pujols signatures are fakes. I gave my theory after what I seen at the St. Louis show.. No one can deny that I spotted a problem, and it was proven true that some of the signatures are not Albert Pujols' authentic signature.
IF it is an inside job at Topps like some have suggested, then maybe that is how a certain person got so many of those Topps buyback slabs and the stickers to seal the fake Pujols buyback Topps/Bowman autos in those holders. Hard to say..
Knowing how Albert Pujols is as a person, I highly doubt he is going to allow anyone to sign his stickers for him. There has never been a problem with him doing that in the past, and why would that change now? The legal problems would cost him more than it's worth, and he knows that. Albert has even spoke about the fact that he was aware of many people forging his signature in the hobby, and he stated he was not fond of fans getting scammed like that, so that is part of why he said he signed the UDA/Upper Deck deal a few years back, so when the fans got his signature, they would know it was the real deal.
I wonder if Topps is willing to post scans/pics of some of their remaining inventory of Pujols autographed sticker sheets, so we can see what those look like?
One thing to think of regarding a potential scam. Could the stickers be cut to fit into the windows? I don't know if that is the scam but it seems plausable to cut them to fit and exacto knife out the real ones.
Again I think its more likely a Topps issue.
I think STTM should be congratulated for at least broaching this subject and bringing it too light.
Remember a SMR column by Joe Orlando stating don't be mad at PSA/DNA when they reject your auto pulled out of the packs. He noted multiple times that the autos sometimes are fakes. There was a big time Ruth, Cobb, Cy Young, Wagner cut auto were 2 of the 4 were noted as fakes.
Currently completing the following registry sets: Cardinal HOF's, 1961 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1972 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, 1980 Pittsburgh Pirates Team, Bill Mazeroski Master & Basic Sets, Roberto Clemente Master & Basic Sets, Willie Stargell Master & Basic Sets and Terry Bradshaw Basic Set
Scott, with diatribes like that, is it any wonder people jump all over you? I guarantee that if you didn't come across SO strongly on Pujols-related subjects, he'd be a better respected, more well-liked player around here. Unfortunately, so many times now you've come across as seriously unhinged (especially this latest posting) that neither you or Pujols are going to be cast in a favorable light. Now, I'm pretty sure you could give a rip about whether you're liked or respected by the people you claim are stalking you and your player, but take a minute to ask yourself about whether you've thrown kerosene on the fire (in large quantities).
Serious questions have been raised in this thread about the authenticity of Pujols' autos in TTT - the initial claim or belief that there was a country-wide conspiracy to peel legit autos and replace them with forged ones is of course ludicrous. However, I don't think there's too much doubt in the minds of many who don't have a vested interest in Pujols that something is fishy here. Are they old autos? Are they ghosted? Is there monkey business at Topps? Given the popularity, collectability and expense of Pujols items, many here feel the questions need to be answered, not attacked with crazy threats. You ask "how dare you try to accuse Pujols..." How dare we not? People pay top dollar for his stuff - if its authenticity is in doubt, then you've got to agree that steps should be taken to find out what's going on, including ensuring that Pujols signed 100% of the 'certified' stuff that's out there. Nobody has accused him of a crime; questions are simply being asked, theories posited. You talk about being anonymous and tough behind a keyboard, yet you threaten to call in some favors and go after those who 'dare' to question Pujols.
1) There are fake Pujols autos on the market 2) Stantheman is argumentative with anybody who doesn't agree with him or questions where he gets his information or whether it is reliable 3) fandango is a complete wackjob
Groundbreaking stuff guys. Nobody knew any of this stuff before this thread.
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time.
How about if you trolls who only come into this thread to see what kind of nonsense you can pop off, go to another thread and ignore this one entirely? I mean, if discussing hobby related issues don't mean much to you, then why are you here? Just to pop off cheap remarks? All you same little group of people seem to do is carry on a grudge against posters you don't like, and try to take the threads they post in, off-track, with your insults towards those people. Enough..
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
Stan,
I looked at the video and it is the same dull sticker and looks exactly the same as the pictures posted earlier of the so called fakes. Not sure what video you were watching?
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
Stan,
I looked at the video and it is the same dull sticker and looks exactly the same as the pictures posted earlier of the so called fakes. Not sure what video you were watching? >>
The stickers being dull does not matter. That is not the issue. Authentic Pujols sigs are on the same dull stickers. The Pujols autograph on the youtube video is authentic, unlike the fakes I have posted examples of in this thread.
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time. >>
Maybe you should go on to another site and this crap wouldn't happen all the time here. You are the T.O. of the board.
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time. >>
Maybe you should go on to another site and this crap wouldn't happen all the time here. You are the T.O. of the board. >>
Maybe if horse's rumps like yourself left, we would not have the problems to start with? There are respected members of this forum who want me here, and have even told me that they wanted to see me around more. They have told me to not allow people like yourself to keep me away. Really, when you come into a thread only to troll, it shows who is causing the problem. Carol should ban people like you, so the rest of us can discuss the hobby without being harrassed.. I have knowledge about autographs that I can contribute to this board, but people like you want to silence that. It makes you wonder what your agenda truly is. Just go away, and leave this thread alone.
<< <i>No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time.
Says the guy who admittedly has people that hate him on multiple boards. >>
Not everyone is going to like you on message boards or in real life, Lee. You can't please everyone in life. I learned that many years ago. Idiots like you just try and bring people down, as you have nothing to add to this thread but your smart mouth. If you don't have any interest in why this thread was started, and only want to stir the pot, then you need to move onto a new thread.
I picked up a couple of error auto's recently but because they are stickers now I'm unsure if they are authentic.
The story on the first one is that it was passed on to a father from a grandfather, and is a rare error sticker auto, supposedly Topps made a few errors on their Sterling auto's and this is one of them.
The second card, I know less about, but it doesn't look like a consistent Erick Aybar signature, any thoughts?
Note: this post isn't a slam against STMM, I believe his intentions are honorable...
If you don't have any interest in why this thread was started, and only want to stir the pot, then you need to move onto a new thread.
I don't NEED to do anything. I know you feel like you own this thread because you started it and have the most Pujols auto knowledge, but in the real world that we are all forced to share (not Stantheman's fantasy world where everything he says is gospel and can't be refuted) you posted on a message board owned by a company that you are not affiliated with in any way other than maybe being a client. PSA owns this board, your post, and anything else that happens on this board. If they choose to not let me post here that's certainly their perogative, but don't think for a second you can tell anyone here where they can and can't post.
<< <i>If you don't have any interest in why this thread was started, and only want to stir the pot, then you need to move onto a new thread.
I don't NEED to do anything. I know you feel like you own this thread because you started it and have the most Pujols auto knowledge, but in the real world that we are all forced to share (not Stantheman's fantasy world where everything he says is gospel and can't be refuted) you posted on a message board owned by a company that you are not affiliated with in any way other than maybe being a client. PSA owns this board, your post, and anything else that happens on this board. If they choose to not let me post here that's certainly their perogative, but don't think for a second you can tell anyone here where they can and can't post. >>
Go ahead and try to refute the forgeries I have pointed out.
I don't own anything on here. But....when you only come into a thread to stir the pot/start nonsense, then there is no point of you being there. I'm sure Carol does not disagree with that.
1) There are fake Pujols autos on the market 2) Stantheman is argumentative with anybody who doesn't agree with him or questions where he gets his information or whether it is reliable 3) fandango is a complete wackjob
Groundbreaking stuff guys. Nobody knew any of this stuff before this thread
=========================================================== Geez and I thought it was me.
Go ahead and try to refute the forgeries I have pointed out.
I don't care enough about Pujols autos to even want to try. I don't buy autos and probably never will. All I'm doing here is 1) having some fun with people who take themselves WAY too seriously, and 2) warning other posters here to consider the source (a pretentious self-important windbag) before taking their word as the truth. If the mods think I am over the line I'm sure I will hear from them like I have in the past, but I'm sure they really enjoy when you put words and ideas in their mouths.
If you really want me to chime in on the topic at hand I will:
1) If there are fake Pujols autos on the market, all potential causes need to be considered. The fact that you and Nutcase McGeejols so immediately discount the possibility that Pujols got somebody else to sign the stickers in 2002 or 2003 and they are being used now because they can't get new Pujols stickers proves you are not looking at this situation rationally. Back then, the quality control for getting these stickers signed was not the same as it is now- there weren't Topps reps at every signing. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it's certainly a possibility, and to discount it because "AP is such a great guy" is ludicrous. The dismissal that Pujols could've signed these sticker sheets while very tired, drunk, pain-killered up, or whatever else might cause the autos to be off is equally ridiculous. I certainly think either of these scenarios is more likely than a nationwide conspiracy to sell cards that have been on the market for less than a month with fake autos on them.
2) The fact that you think a PSA quick opinion proves or means ANYTHING in terms of provenance is laughable. Even by PSA's description of the service it cannot be used to prove anything. So basically you made a 'bet' that PSA's quick opinion service would agree with you. Having subbed multiple Pujols autos in the past, I'm sure you have a good grip on what PSA thinks is real and what they do not. Well, I could do the same in terms of grading just about any 80s or 90s card and be right 80% of the time, but does that "prove" the cards are the grade I say they are? All it means is their opinion agrees with my opinion. Nothing more. There is no coming close to proving that these autos are fake until 1) someone admits to faking them, 2) AP goes on record as saying that is not his autograph, or 3) there is visual proof of somebody signing Topps stickers with fake Pujols autos. Your opinion that they are fake is just an opinion until you can prove otherwise, and I have yet to see anything in this thread that comes close to proof.
They may be fake, they may not. I honestly don't know or care since I will never buy one. What I do know is there have been fake autos on the market since the 60s and it's never going to stop, but to state your theories on such topics so absolutely without any proof makes you sound like a buffoon to anybody who knows anything about the collectibles market. At first glance, the purpose of this thread would appear to be to inform collectors of a potential fake son the market, but my strong suspicion is that your motivation for starting threads like this is because you want to be recognized as the 'official' Pujols auto expert, furthering your high opinion of yourself and satiating your fragile ego.
The fact that authentic examples are being pulled is really beside the point. It's likely that half of the examples currently out there on TTT's are fake autos. You've pointed out several yourself. But I don't think anyone feels that every single TTT is a fake. Just because we haven't seen a fake pulled on video does not mean they're not being pulled.
Once again: In the absence of evidence of any other "base card" or other card on which the real stickers are being placed, the seller fraud theory just doesn't work. In order for anyone to buy into your theory, you need to answer the question of those base cards and answer the other questions posted earlier in the thread regarding the time frame, geographical locations, and impossibility of removing seemingly embedded stickers. Not to mention what in the world would motivate anyone to **** with a 1/1.
Without those answers, we have to assume this fraud occurred before they were inserted into packs.
I think the PSA/DNA determination factors in (even though I'm not a big fan) because 1) this is a certified auto we are talking about, not a random after market signed card 2) it was a outside opinion of someone who hadn't posted in here
Okay, so the card in question just sold on Ebay for $475. My question is isn't Ebay supposed to actually pull items that fail the QO? Or did Hammered do the QO outside Ebay?
Okay, so the card in question just sold on Ebay for $475. My question is isn't Ebay supposed to actually pull items that fail the QO? Or did Hammered do the QO outside Ebay? >>
Maybe because the card is real and we have a couple of posters who have failed to take their meds and as a result, their multiple personalities are coming up with conspiracy theories. Notice how these same posters conflict with themselves from post to post. True clinical cases.
It wasn't taken down either, it ended without bids the first time and is now relisted.
From what I understand, Ebay was supposed to have taken down the auction. Can't imagine how the seller would feel holding a $500 "forgery" that he pulled from a pack and cannot sell.
I know HOF autographs and Albert Pujols signatures quite well. The members who I have helped in the past are staying silent, and I don't blame them, as they don't want to get involved in this drama. They know what I have helped them with, and they know the stuff that I deemed authentic passed PSA/DNA or JSA(depending on who they submitted to). That's all that matters. The ones that want to attack me, that's fine. I'll just be one less source to help them if they ever need it. The ones who have asked for my help in the past, and appreciated it, they will continue to get any help I can give them.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter.
<< <i>This is the 1/1 that the QO was done on: link
It wasn't taken down either, it ended without bids the first time and is now relisted.
From what I understand, Ebay was supposed to have taken down the auction. Can't imagine how the seller would feel holding a $500 "forgery" that he pulled from a pack and cannot sell. >>
Oh, I posted the pic of what I thought was sent for the QO a few pages back and wasn't corrected, after seeing the one that had the QO I would have to say it looks a lot more 'real' than the one I thought we were talking about....
<< <i>I know HOF autographs and Albert Pujols signatures quite well. The members who I have helped in the past are staying silent, and I don't blame them, as they don't want to get involved in this drama. They know what I have helped them with, and they know the stuff that I deemed authentic passed PSA/DNA or JSA(depending on who they submitted to). That's all that matters. The ones that want to attack me, that's fine. I'll just be one less source to help them if they ever need it. The ones who have asked for my help in the past, and appreciated it, they will continue to get any help I can give them.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter. >>
Stan, I don't think anyone has ever doubted your auto knowledge it appears to be vast and spot on... what people take issue with is your overall attitude - there is not another person that posts that gets more defensive and bent out of shape than you.
I know HOF autographs and Albert Pujols signatures quite well. The members who I have helped in the past are staying silent, and I don't blame them, as they don't want to get involved in this drama. They know what I have helped them with, and they know the stuff that I deemed authentic passed PSA/DNA or JSA(depending on who they submitted to). That's all that matters. The ones that want to attack me, that's fine. I'll just be one less source to help them if they ever need it. The ones who have asked for my help in the past, and appreciated it, they will continue to get any help I can give them.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter.
Sharing knowledge to help people out is one thing. Sharing unproven theories, defending them to the death and discounting anything anybody says that's contradictory to those theories is something entirely different. When you state your opinions as absolute fact and get all huffy and puffy when people don't take them as fact, you open the door to criticism.
To draw an analogy, I have long had a sneaking suspicion that 93 Finest refractor sets were backdoored from Topps on a small scale. Can I prove it? No. But if I started a thread that states absolutely that Finest refractors were backdoored then constantly shouted "prove I'm wrong" to anybody with a contradictory opinion, I would expect to rub people the wrong way. It's not just about the information, it's how you state it and what you represent to be facts and what you represent to be opinions. In reading your posts you represent that the Pujols auto's are 100% forged without a doubt, which is a ludicrous statement to represent as fact considering the autos are somewhat close to what a Pujols auto looks like and could easily have been signed while Pujols was tired, drunk or injured. Maybe the Topps rep was in the bathroom and Pjuols got his agent to sign some because his arm was tired. Maybe Pujols had spasms in his arm. Maybe Pujols was being attacked by a rabid panther while signing. Who the hell knows? You have no way of proving that they are fake regardless of how many quick opinions you get. A statement such as "these Pujols auto's are most likely not genuine" is far more appropriate than "The Pujols autographs I called out are fakes. No doubt.". I'm not saying they are real and I'm not saying they are not, but the way you state your opinion as incontrovertible fact is misleading to those you "are trying to help". Storm888 has been basically agreeing with you the whole time, yet he uses language such as "most likely", "in my opinion" and "probably" in order to not avoid confusion between what is his opinion and what is fact.
Comments
And...I take offense to you calling me a hater of Fandango. I don't hate on clincally insane individuals. Go back in your hole right after you finish up your latest private sports card investigation.....
You are a certified nut and need help.
Here is what I stated:
<<At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice.>>
We all know how there are so many fake Topps/Bowman Pujols buyback autos that are floating around in those buyback holders, and we know who/what seller/s have sold a ton of them on Ebay over a period of time. My thoughts on how these TTT fake Pujols autos are hitting the market might not be spot on, we don't know for sure at this point, but we do know the Pujols signatures are fakes. I gave my theory after what I seen at the St. Louis show.. No one can deny that I spotted a problem, and it was proven true that some of the signatures are not Albert Pujols' authentic signature.
IF it is an inside job at Topps like some have suggested, then maybe that is how a certain person got so many of those Topps buyback slabs and the stickers to seal the fake Pujols buyback Topps/Bowman autos in those holders. Hard to say..
Knowing how Albert Pujols is as a person, I highly doubt he is going to allow anyone to sign his stickers for him. There has never been a problem with him doing that in the past, and why would that change now? The legal problems would cost him more than it's worth, and he knows that. Albert has even spoke about the fact that he was aware of many people forging his signature in the hobby, and he stated he was not fond of fans getting scammed like that, so that is part of why he said he signed the UDA/Upper Deck deal a few years back, so when the fans got his signature, they would know it was the real deal.
I wonder if Topps is willing to post scans/pics of some of their remaining inventory of Pujols autographed sticker sheets, so we can see what those look like?
Again I think its more likely a Topps issue.
I think STTM should be congratulated for at least broaching this subject and bringing it too light.
Remember a SMR column by Joe Orlando stating don't be mad at PSA/DNA when they reject your auto pulled out of the packs. He noted multiple times that the autos sometimes are fakes. There was a big time Ruth, Cobb, Cy Young, Wagner cut auto were 2 of the 4 were noted as fakes.
Serious questions have been raised in this thread about the authenticity of Pujols' autos in TTT - the initial claim or belief that there was a country-wide conspiracy to peel legit autos and replace them with forged ones is of course ludicrous. However, I don't think there's too much doubt in the minds of many who don't have a vested interest in Pujols that something is fishy here. Are they old autos? Are they ghosted? Is there monkey business at Topps? Given the popularity, collectability and expense of Pujols items, many here feel the questions need to be answered, not attacked with crazy threats. You ask "how dare you try to accuse Pujols..." How dare we not? People pay top dollar for his stuff - if its authenticity is in doubt, then you've got to agree that steps should be taken to find out what's going on, including ensuring that Pujols signed 100% of the 'certified' stuff that's out there. Nobody has accused him of a crime; questions are simply being asked, theories posited. You talk about being anonymous and tough behind a keyboard, yet you threaten to call in some favors and go after those who 'dare' to question Pujols.
Well said.
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video..
<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen.
1) There are fake Pujols autos on the market
2) Stantheman is argumentative with anybody who doesn't agree with him or questions where he gets his information or whether it is reliable
3) fandango is a complete wackjob
Groundbreaking stuff guys. Nobody knew any of this stuff before this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time.
<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
Stan,
I looked at the video and it is the same dull sticker and looks exactly the same as the pictures posted earlier of the so called fakes. Not sure what video you were watching?
Yes.
<< <i>
<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
Stan,
I looked at the video and it is the same dull sticker and looks exactly the same as the pictures posted earlier of the so called fakes. Not sure what video you were watching? >>
The stickers being dull does not matter. That is not the issue. Authentic Pujols sigs are on the same dull stickers. The Pujols autograph on the youtube video is authentic, unlike the fakes I have posted examples of in this thread.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time. >>
Maybe you should go on to another site and this crap wouldn't happen all the time here. You are the T.O. of the board.
Says the guy who admittedly has people that hate him on multiple boards.
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<< <i>
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<< <i>At the 1:59 second mark of this youtube clip, you can see an authentic Pujols TTT autograph pulled from this box:
Authentic
So far, we have yet to see a forged Pujols auto pulled on video.. >>
And we are yet to see one of the base cards with an authentic auto sticker on it that only you have seen. >>
If all you are going to do is troll, why don't you just move onto something else? We are trying to get to the bottom of this issue. People like you are what make this board a pointless place to try and discuss the hobby. No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time. >>
Maybe you should go on to another site and this crap wouldn't happen all the time here. You are the T.O. of the board. >>
Maybe if horse's rumps like yourself left, we would not have the problems to start with? There are respected members of this forum who want me here, and have even told me that they wanted to see me around more. They have told me to not allow people like yourself to keep me away. Really, when you come into a thread only to troll, it shows who is causing the problem. Carol should ban people like you, so the rest of us can discuss the hobby without being harrassed.. I have knowledge about autographs that I can contribute to this board, but people like you want to silence that. It makes you wonder what your agenda truly is. Just go away, and leave this thread alone.
EDIT: spell/typos
<< <i>No wonder members have move onto other sites, where this crap does not go on all of the time.
Says the guy who admittedly has people that hate him on multiple boards. >>
Not everyone is going to like you on message boards or in real life, Lee. You can't please everyone in life. I learned that many years ago. Idiots like you just try and bring people down, as you have nothing to add to this thread but your smart mouth. If you don't have any interest in why this thread was started, and only want to stir the pot, then you need to move onto a new thread.
The story on the first one is that it was passed on to a father from a grandfather, and is a rare error sticker auto, supposedly Topps made a few errors on their Sterling auto's and this is one of them.
The second card, I know less about, but it doesn't look like a consistent Erick Aybar signature, any thoughts?
Note: this post isn't a slam against STMM, I believe his intentions are honorable...
I don't NEED to do anything. I know you feel like you own this thread because you started it and have the most Pujols auto knowledge, but in the real world that we are all forced to share (not Stantheman's fantasy world where everything he says is gospel and can't be refuted) you posted on a message board owned by a company that you are not affiliated with in any way other than maybe being a client. PSA owns this board, your post, and anything else that happens on this board. If they choose to not let me post here that's certainly their perogative, but don't think for a second you can tell anyone here where they can and can't post.
<< <i>If you don't have any interest in why this thread was started, and only want to stir the pot, then you need to move onto a new thread.
I don't NEED to do anything. I know you feel like you own this thread because you started it and have the most Pujols auto knowledge, but in the real world that we are all forced to share (not Stantheman's fantasy world where everything he says is gospel and can't be refuted) you posted on a message board owned by a company that you are not affiliated with in any way other than maybe being a client. PSA owns this board, your post, and anything else that happens on this board. If they choose to not let me post here that's certainly their perogative, but don't think for a second you can tell anyone here where they can and can't post. >>
Go ahead and try to refute the forgeries I have pointed out.
I don't own anything on here. But....when you only come into a thread to stir the pot/start nonsense, then there is no point of you being there. I'm sure Carol does not disagree with that.
1) There are fake Pujols autos on the market
2) Stantheman is argumentative with anybody who doesn't agree with him or questions where he gets his information or whether it is reliable
3) fandango is a complete wackjob
Groundbreaking stuff guys. Nobody knew any of this stuff before this thread
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Geez and I thought it was me.
Steve
I don't care enough about Pujols autos to even want to try. I don't buy autos and probably never will. All I'm doing here is 1) having some fun with people who take themselves WAY too seriously, and 2) warning other posters here to consider the source (a pretentious self-important windbag) before taking their word as the truth. If the mods think I am over the line I'm sure I will hear from them like I have in the past, but I'm sure they really enjoy when you put words and ideas in their mouths.
If you really want me to chime in on the topic at hand I will:
1) If there are fake Pujols autos on the market, all potential causes need to be considered. The fact that you and Nutcase McGeejols so immediately discount the possibility that Pujols got somebody else to sign the stickers in 2002 or 2003 and they are being used now because they can't get new Pujols stickers proves you are not looking at this situation rationally. Back then, the quality control for getting these stickers signed was not the same as it is now- there weren't Topps reps at every signing. I'm not saying this is what happened, but it's certainly a possibility, and to discount it because "AP is such a great guy" is ludicrous. The dismissal that Pujols could've signed these sticker sheets while very tired, drunk, pain-killered up, or whatever else might cause the autos to be off is equally ridiculous. I certainly think either of these scenarios is more likely than a nationwide conspiracy to sell cards that have been on the market for less than a month with fake autos on them.
2) The fact that you think a PSA quick opinion proves or means ANYTHING in terms of provenance is laughable. Even by PSA's description of the service it cannot be used to prove anything. So basically you made a 'bet' that PSA's quick opinion service would agree with you. Having subbed multiple Pujols autos in the past, I'm sure you have a good grip on what PSA thinks is real and what they do not. Well, I could do the same in terms of grading just about any 80s or 90s card and be right 80% of the time, but does that "prove" the cards are the grade I say they are? All it means is their opinion agrees with my opinion. Nothing more. There is no coming close to proving that these autos are fake until 1) someone admits to faking them, 2) AP goes on record as saying that is not his autograph, or 3) there is visual proof of somebody signing Topps stickers with fake Pujols autos. Your opinion that they are fake is just an opinion until you can prove otherwise, and I have yet to see anything in this thread that comes close to proof.
They may be fake, they may not. I honestly don't know or care since I will never buy one. What I do know is there have been fake autos on the market since the 60s and it's never going to stop, but to state your theories on such topics so absolutely without any proof makes you sound like a buffoon to anybody who knows anything about the collectibles market. At first glance, the purpose of this thread would appear to be to inform collectors of a potential fake son the market, but my strong suspicion is that your motivation for starting threads like this is because you want to be recognized as the 'official' Pujols auto expert, furthering your high opinion of yourself and satiating your fragile ego.
The fact that authentic examples are being pulled is really beside the point. It's likely that half of the examples currently out there on TTT's are fake autos. You've pointed out several yourself. But I don't think anyone feels that every single TTT is a fake. Just because we haven't seen a fake pulled on video does not mean they're not being pulled.
Once again:
In the absence of evidence of any other "base card" or other card on which the real stickers are being placed, the seller fraud theory just doesn't work. In order for anyone to buy into your theory, you need to answer the question of those base cards and answer the other questions posted earlier in the thread regarding the time frame, geographical locations, and impossibility of removing seemingly embedded stickers. Not to mention what in the world would motivate anyone to **** with a 1/1.
Without those answers, we have to assume this fraud occurred before they were inserted into packs.
Okay, so the card in question just sold on Ebay for $475. My question is isn't Ebay supposed to actually pull items that fail the QO? Or did Hammered do the QO outside Ebay?
<< <i>1/1 Pujols Auto Plate
Okay, so the card in question just sold on Ebay for $475. My question is isn't Ebay supposed to actually pull items that fail the QO? Or did Hammered do the QO outside Ebay? >>
Maybe because the card is real and we have a couple of posters who have failed to take their meds and as a result, their multiple personalities are coming up with conspiracy theories. Notice how these same posters conflict with themselves from post to post. True clinical cases.
<< <i>Nice to see Stan is making more friends... just wondering Stan do you argue with yourself when no one else is around? >>
It wasn't taken down either, it ended without bids the first time and is now relisted.
From what I understand, Ebay was supposed to have taken down the auction. Can't imagine how the seller would feel holding a $500 "forgery" that he pulled from a pack and cannot sell.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter.
<< <i>This is the 1/1 that the QO was done on: link
It wasn't taken down either, it ended without bids the first time and is now relisted.
From what I understand, Ebay was supposed to have taken down the auction. Can't imagine how the seller would feel holding a $500 "forgery" that he pulled from a pack and cannot sell. >>
Oh, I posted the pic of what I thought was sent for the QO a few pages back and wasn't corrected, after seeing the one that had the QO I would have to say it looks a lot more 'real' than the one I thought we were talking about....
different 1/1 Pujols
<< <i>I know HOF autographs and Albert Pujols signatures quite well. The members who I have helped in the past are staying silent, and I don't blame them, as they don't want to get involved in this drama. They know what I have helped them with, and they know the stuff that I deemed authentic passed PSA/DNA or JSA(depending on who they submitted to). That's all that matters. The ones that want to attack me, that's fine. I'll just be one less source to help them if they ever need it. The ones who have asked for my help in the past, and appreciated it, they will continue to get any help I can give them.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter. >>
Stan, I don't think anyone has ever doubted your auto knowledge it appears to be vast and spot on... what people take issue with is your overall attitude - there is not another person that posts that gets more defensive and bent out of shape than you.
I guess by insulting/ trying to discredit me, it makes some of you feel worthy in your own lives. I know what I know, and if I can't share it on here, or give my opinions/thoughts on stuff, without being insulted over it, then I guess I am better off just letting some people get burned. All I do is take shots for trying to help point out something that looks to be a problem in our hobby. You all can do what you want with it from here on out. If I see someone being burned, or something fishy in our hobby, then it will go without as much as a warning from me. Let people figure it out once they have been ripped off. I mean after all, it's not my money, right? I tried to shed light on what I see to be a problem with TTT and Topps stickers, but as usual, certain trolls turn the issue into a disaster, due to personal vendettas that that just can't let go. I have nothing else to say on this matter.
Sharing knowledge to help people out is one thing. Sharing unproven theories, defending them to the death and discounting anything anybody says that's contradictory to those theories is something entirely different. When you state your opinions as absolute fact and get all huffy and puffy when people don't take them as fact, you open the door to criticism.
To draw an analogy, I have long had a sneaking suspicion that 93 Finest refractor sets were backdoored from Topps on a small scale. Can I prove it? No. But if I started a thread that states absolutely that Finest refractors were backdoored then constantly shouted "prove I'm wrong" to anybody with a contradictory opinion, I would expect to rub people the wrong way. It's not just about the information, it's how you state it and what you represent to be facts and what you represent to be opinions. In reading your posts you represent that the Pujols auto's are 100% forged without a doubt, which is a ludicrous statement to represent as fact considering the autos are somewhat close to what a Pujols auto looks like and could easily have been signed while Pujols was tired, drunk or injured. Maybe the Topps rep was in the bathroom and Pjuols got his agent to sign some because his arm was tired. Maybe Pujols had spasms in his arm. Maybe Pujols was being attacked by a rabid panther while signing. Who the hell knows? You have no way of proving that they are fake regardless of how many quick opinions you get. A statement such as "these Pujols auto's are most likely not genuine" is far more appropriate than "The Pujols autographs I called out are fakes. No doubt.". I'm not saying they are real and I'm not saying they are not, but the way you state your opinion as incontrovertible fact is misleading to those you "are trying to help". Storm888 has been basically agreeing with you the whole time, yet he uses language such as "most likely", "in my opinion" and "probably" in order to not avoid confusion between what is his opinion and what is fact.
Death
Taxes
STMM posts will end in a fiery trainwreck
Death
Taxes
STMM posts will end in a fiery trainwreck
Funny.
As a probate and estate planning attorney I am perfectly content with #1 and #2.
As for #3 it does make it entertaintaining around here. It's always good when Fandango tries to help STMM too.