My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight.
My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight. >>
Not looking to get into a fight with you Stan, but when you act condescending towards me I will come right back at you. As I have stated numerous times, I give you full credit on any of the single signed Pujols autos that have been shown as forgeries. Those are and will always be after market modifications on cards. I'm just a natural born skeptic when it comes to the multiple autographed cards being altered.
My initial post was actually not directed at you, which I should have stated in the beginning. It was more about the industry as a whole. I truly believe that a percentage of these forgeries are being pulled from packs, which makes it a bigger problem for the industry when one of the stars isn't actually living up to his contractual obligation. We've all heard of the clubhouse signature or the wife's signature. I truly suspect that some of these forgeries were sent to Topps that way. As for the others? We all know the scammers. We all know they will continue doing it. But I'm not convinced that every one of the forgeries came from them.
<< <i>I have two Tommy John autographed cards at home. Both are on issued cards, from packs, and are now in PSA holders. They are obviously not faked as I am pretty sure nobody is faking his autograph. The autographs are night and day different. Does not even look like the same name. It just tells me you have no clue what you are buying even if it comes right out of a pack. I am glad people are posting to beware of the fake cards but I am not 100% sure that anybody is really sure what is fake and what is real. >>
I'd be willing to bet those two Tommy John cards are not as "night and day" different as you think.
Successful dealings with Wcsportscards94558, EagleEyeKid, SamsGirl214, Volver, DwayneDrain, Oaksey25, Griffins, Cardfan07, Etc.
I don't get it. Why would someone ruin a triple signature card like that? They all seem to be numbered very low, just as a card like that would be. Were these released without a Pujols signature and later added? I'm a but stymied by the scamming going on, if this is the case with TTT Pujols'. Just yesterday there was a Matt Ryan Exquisite auto card that got the jersey swapped out. This is making me think on-card, company certified is the only way to go.
Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. I have met 2 people who have represented Topps at signings, and talked with a third.
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
<< <i>Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. I have met 2 people who have represented Topps at signings, and talked with a third.
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
Nick >>
Yep.
When any player signs for Topps it needs to be watched by a Topps official or someone that can certify that I actually signed the cards and no one else like my wife or brother jumped in and signed a couple (this has happened in the past with players). In my case the person in charge of watching me was Evan Kaplan, director of trading cards for the MLBPA. Evan had to sign an affidavit swearing that he would watch me sign every card. Pat Neshek
My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight. >>
Not looking to get into a fight with you Stan, but when you act condescending towards me I will come right back at you. As I have stated numerous times, I give you full credit on any of the single signed Pujols autos that have been shown as forgeries. Those are and will always be after market modifications on cards. I'm just a natural born skeptic when it comes to the multiple autographed cards being altered.
My initial post was actually not directed at you, which I should have stated in the beginning. It was more about the industry as a whole. I truly believe that a percentage of these forgeries are being pulled from packs, which makes it a bigger problem for the industry when one of the stars isn't actually living up to his contractual obligation. We've all heard of the clubhouse signature or the wife's signature. I truly suspect that some of these forgeries were sent to Topps that way. As for the others? We all know the scammers. We all know they will continue doing it. But I'm not convinced that every one of the forgeries came from them. >>
Yes, you were condescending towards me to begin with, or that is certainly how I took your post, and that us why I responded to you. After you popped off, I replied that if you didn't care about the scams, then maybe you shouldn't read the threads like mine if it bothered you so much.
There is ZERO proof that Pujols ever gave Topps problems on living up to his end of their contractual agreements. And there have never been any issues with Pujols having other signatures coming straight from packs with signatures that did not match up to his authentic signature(not even on stickers). No issues ever of clubhouse signatures, or his wife signing them. They have always matched up. No one has produced a youtube video clip or proof that a Pujols signature straight from a Topps pack matched the forgeries I have shown here. That's because this stuff is happening after they come out of the packs, and the evidence is all over with people forging Pujols signature right and left on buybacks, 2001 Fleer Legacy, 2001 Bowman Chrome, ect. All it takes is for one scammer to pick these cards up at a show, remove the Pujols sticker, replace with a forgery, and then start peddling them on Ebay through various id's and at various shows to unsuspecting people(many times they use alias id's on Ebay that belong to their friends who assist in completing the scams for $$). That is how they can spread all over so quickly. Meanwhile, the scammers are left with an authentic Pujols sig that they can peddle later on for at least a hundred or more dollars. They get to make money on 2 ends of one card.
<< <i>"...Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. ..."
/////////////////////////////////////////
I don't see how TOPPS - or any other card company - could do it any other way.
The sigs would have no verifiable integrity, if they were not signed in the presence of the company rep. >>
I know for a fact that Upper Deck uses their dealer network to use local people to act as UD reps for a particular signing. To me it's ridiculous... One 'rep' who works at a local card store told me they had the player making silly inscriptions on the stickers towards the end of the signing, some just writing a smiley face (no auto)...
<< <i>Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. I have met 2 people who have represented Topps at signings, and talked with a third.
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
Nick >>
Yep.
When any player signs for Topps it needs to be watched by a Topps official or someone that can certify that I actually signed the cards and no one else like my wife or brother jumped in and signed a couple (this has happened in the past with players). In my case the person in charge of watching me was Evan Kaplan, director of trading cards for the MLBPA. Evan had to sign an affidavit swearing that he would watch me sign every card. Pat Neshek
>>
Exactly..
These TTT Pujols autographed cards are being altered AFTER they leave the packs.
These TTT Pujols autographed cards are being altered AFTER they leave the packs. >>
I know. Well, I dunno if the autos are real as that's not my area of expertise but from all the Pujols autos I've see on numerous boards, they do look off. I just saw a chance to use a pic I had saved. Unfortunately, I've seen a few wipe and rewrites. A Bill Ripken one, another where the person drew male anatomy, read about the Pujols refractors known for bubbling, poping up clean. etc.
Can someone post a cliff's note version of this thread, please?
So basically my kid won't be able to go to college, but at least I'll have a set where the three most expensive cards are of a player I despise ~ CDsNuts
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice.
<< <i>Can someone post a cliff's note version of this thread, please? >>
Sure.
1) Pujols signs his name like a 3rd grader so it's easy to copy 2) Every time a Pujols auto is suspected of being forged somewhere in the world, a new thread is started 3) We are currently on Pujols fake auto thread #17
Again, this is NOT just about Pujols, this is about a scam. Pujols just happens to be the subject right now, as his autographs sell for pretty good money, so the scammers are targeting his signature. Point is, if they are doing this with Pujols, it's just a matter of time before they try it with Jeter, A-Rod, or any other star that will make them some good money.
Again, it's really simple, if some of you don't like these types of threads, no one is forcing you to open them. You can move onto something else on here. There are many other topics on here to partake in, or you can start one on a subject you want to discuss. That's the whole point of this forum.
<< <i>Can someone post a cliff's note version of this thread, please? >>
Sure.
1) Pujols signs his name like a 3rd grader so it's easy to copy 2) Every time a Pujols auto is suspected of being forged somewhere in the world, a new thread is started 3) We are currently on Pujols fake auto thread #17 >>
how is he supposed to sign? an illegible smear or scribble..the guy has a cool auto and you give him $%%$ for that...you Pujols haters are nauseating GO AWAY HAMMERED
If you really think that this is some large conspiracy theory with people making these fake pujols autographs across the country, than there is nothing else I can offer to this discussion. If you cannot seem to fathom that either the signature on the cards are real or that somehow topps screwed up, then there is no point discussing it further. There is plenty of evidence out there to these being pulled out of packs like this, but you chose to ignore that evidence and just go with some kind of idea that these are being bought and forged in large amounts and being sold at a rapid pace. Rember, all of the fakes had to have been bought, resigned and then relisted by multiple sellers in multiple states with no connection to each other in 7 days!
www.sportsnutcards.com Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>If you really think that this is some large conspiracy theory with people making these fake pujols autographs across the country, than there is nothing else I can offer to this discussion. If you cannot seem to fathom that either the signature on the cards are real or that somehow topps screwed up, then there is no point discussing it further. There is plenty of evidence out there to these being pulled out of packs like this, but you chose to ignore that evidence and just go with some kind of idea that these are being bought and forged in large amounts and being sold at a rapid pace. Rember, all of the fakes had to have been bought, resigned and then relisted by multiple sellers in multiple states with no connection to each other in 7 days! >>
Provide the evidence you speak of, since you say there is plenty of it. I have posted examples that are legit and fake as comparison. You obviously don't understand what is going on here, or how these people operate.
<< <i>How long before STM blames this all on everyone here and says he's never posting here again? >>
How long before you realize you are an idiot? Why don't you move on instead of trolling in a thread that you obviously have no interest in other than looking to see if you can stir the pot.
Edit: And for the record; I was not going to come back and post on here, but some repected board members told me that they would like to see me post more often, and to not let idiots like yourself keep me away.
<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Bingo!
And if anyone doubts my opinion on the Pujols sigs I called fake, crop them out, set up a PSA/DNA quick opinion on the signatures in question. If I am wrong, I will double your money back on the QO fee for each one of them. Or any other wager you want to propose. I will stand behind my opinion on the signatures being forgeries.
<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Storm, I am very suprised you have taken this stance. The only evidence we have of anything is that there are two different versions of Pujols autographs used for 2009 topps Triple Threads cards and one type of the autographs are questionable... You are usually a very logical and even keeled thinker... Think about it, these cards are quite hard to find, where did the supply of these re-signed cards come from? None were ever on ebay previously and there have been no major shows where multiples would have been offered for sale at any one time since the release of this product... Not to mention that the ebay sellers involved have no connection to each other, are not selling any other questionable cards . If these sellers are all legit, how did the cards re-circulate across the country without the use of ebay, a major show, or the use of any ther online venue, because no one has come up with any of the "before" pictures.... Also, the thing that no one has mentioned is that the process to remove a sticker from a card pretty much destroys the card it was removed from . That is why stickers are removed from crap cards that are just thrown away. There is no real gain to remove a sticker from one of these cards at the risk of damaging it. Until anyone sees any one of these cards with a matching serial numer with two different autographs this argument is not going anywhere.
www.sportsnutcards.com Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed.
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up.
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Aren't these stickers on the TTT cards Topps auto stickers?
<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Storm, I am very suprised you have taken this stance. The only evidence we have of anything is that there are two different versions of Pujols autographs used for 2009 topps Triple Threads cards and one type of the autographs are questionable... You are usually a very logical and even keeled thinker... Think about it, these cards are quite hard to find, where did the supply of these re-signed cards come from? None were ever on ebay previously and there have been no major shows where multiples would have been offered for sale at any one time since the release of this product... Not to mention that the ebay sellers involved have no connection to each other, are not selling any other questionable cards . If these sellers are all legit, how did the cards re-circulate across the country without the use of ebay, a major show, or the use of any ther online venue, because no one has come up with any of the "before" pictures.... Also, the thing that no one has mentioned is that the process to remove a sticker from a card pretty much destroys the card it was removed from . That is why stickers are removed from crap cards that are just thrown away. There is no real gain to remove a sticker from one of these cards at the risk of damaging it. Until anyone sees any one of these cards with a matching serial numer with two different autographs this argument is not going anywhere. >>
You simply don't understand the concept. Yes, the stickers can be removed without destroying the card. I seen a thread on a message board in the past where a guy removed a Musial sticker autograph, and then sent it to Stan Musial so the card so be directly signed "on card". In the end, the card looked like it was an "on card" signature straight from the pack. No signs of damage, or that it was originally a sticker autograph card..
Clearly, there is gain to be had if the scammer can pass off a bogus Pujols signature as legit, and sell the legit Pujols signature on another card for at least $100 or more as well. Essentially, they can make money twice on one Pujols signature.
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Precisely.. You truly understand. >>
What is the difference between one of these TTT stickers and the Topps auto stickers that are used for other Topps issues?
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Precisely.. You truly understand. >>
What is the difference between one of these TTT stickers and the Topps auto stickers that are used for other Topps issues? >>
They are the same, but you have to start thinking like one of the scammers. The backs of the TTT cards have a coa stating it's a legit Pujols sig, ect... The base card does not. By placing the legit Pujols sticker sig on a base card, it builds credibility in that being legit, since it does not have the coa on the back like the TTT cards do. It's all smoke and mirrors for a quick buck. Dump before people catch on. By the time they do, the scammers have made their money, and the cards are floating around our hobby. Then they are onto something else.
OK, here's a completed auction for a Triple Threads Pujols, from a seller w/ 100%, 7000+ FB from Topeka, Kansas for crying out loud. Gotta be real But if you compare it to those you posted on page one, it looks virtually identical to the one you claim to be fake, and nothing like the one you say is real. I think you're barking up the wrong tree with this one.
Comments
My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight.
<< <i>katscards,
My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight. >>
Not looking to get into a fight with you Stan, but when you act condescending towards me I will come right back at you. As I have stated numerous times, I give you full credit on any of the single signed Pujols autos that have been shown as forgeries. Those are and will always be after market modifications on cards. I'm just a natural born skeptic when it comes to the multiple autographed cards being altered.
My initial post was actually not directed at you, which I should have stated in the beginning. It was more about the industry as a whole. I truly believe that a percentage of these forgeries are being pulled from packs, which makes it a bigger problem for the industry when one of the stars isn't actually living up to his contractual obligation. We've all heard of the clubhouse signature or the wife's signature. I truly suspect that some of these forgeries were sent to Topps that way. As for the others? We all know the scammers. We all know they will continue doing it. But I'm not convinced that every one of the forgeries came from them.
<< <i>My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. >>
Pleaes direct us to one instance.
<< <i>I have two Tommy John autographed cards at home. Both are on issued cards, from packs, and are now in PSA holders. They are obviously not faked as I am pretty sure nobody is faking his autograph. The autographs are night and day different. Does not even look like the same name. It just tells me you have no clue what you are buying even if it comes right out of a pack. I am glad people are posting to beware of the fake cards but I am not 100% sure that anybody is really sure what is fake and what is real. >>
I'd be willing to bet those two Tommy John cards are not as "night and day" different as you think.
<< <i>
<< <i>My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. >>
Pleaes direct us to one instance. >>
I think he proved the "signatures" that you thought were real on Tuff Stuff magazine covers were actually printed on EVERY copy they issued.....
I second your motion
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
Nick
Reap the whirlwind.
Need to buy something for the wife or girlfriend? Check out Vintage Designer Clothing.
/////////////////////////////////////////
I don't see how TOPPS - or any other card company - could do
it any other way.
The sigs would have no verifiable integrity, if they were not signed
in the presence of the company rep.
<< <i>Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. I have met 2 people who have represented Topps at signings, and talked with a third.
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
Nick >>
Yep.
When any player signs for Topps it needs to be watched by a Topps official or someone that can certify that I actually signed the cards and no one else like my wife or brother jumped in and signed a couple (this has happened in the past with players). In my case the person in charge of watching me was Evan Kaplan, director of trading cards for the MLBPA. Evan had to sign an affidavit swearing that he would watch me sign every card. Pat Neshek
<< <i>
<< <i>katscards,
My expertise on here has been proven on a fair share of instances. The ones who know me, already know that. I don't have to prove anything to you. You are clearly looking to pick a fight in a thread that was meant for helpful purposes. No wonder some of us post less and less as time goes on..
Why don't I work for PSA/DNA? Well, let's see... I am in Missouri, they are in California, and I have a lot of time and money tied up in something that pays me more than PSA would. My roots and family are here.. Not that it's any of your business. I may have been offered employment by a well known authentication company in the past. Not that it makes any difference.
You can either take the info I have provided and use it to your benefit, or chose to ignore it. I can care less at this point. Once again, I tried to help this board with some info, and backed it up with examples. That's more constructive than what you are trying to accomplish by trolling me into a fight. >>
Not looking to get into a fight with you Stan, but when you act condescending towards me I will come right back at you. As I have stated numerous times, I give you full credit on any of the single signed Pujols autos that have been shown as forgeries. Those are and will always be after market modifications on cards. I'm just a natural born skeptic when it comes to the multiple autographed cards being altered.
My initial post was actually not directed at you, which I should have stated in the beginning. It was more about the industry as a whole. I truly believe that a percentage of these forgeries are being pulled from packs, which makes it a bigger problem for the industry when one of the stars isn't actually living up to his contractual obligation. We've all heard of the clubhouse signature or the wife's signature. I truly suspect that some of these forgeries were sent to Topps that way. As for the others? We all know the scammers. We all know they will continue doing it. But I'm not convinced that every one of the forgeries came from them. >>
Yes, you were condescending towards me to begin with, or that is certainly how I took your post, and that us why I responded to you. After you popped off, I replied that if you didn't care about the scams, then maybe you shouldn't read the threads like mine if it bothered you so much.
There is ZERO proof that Pujols ever gave Topps problems on living up to his end of their contractual agreements. And there have never been any issues with Pujols having other signatures coming straight from packs with signatures that did not match up to his authentic signature(not even on stickers). No issues ever of clubhouse signatures, or his wife signing them. They have always matched up. No one has produced a youtube video clip or proof that a Pujols signature straight from a Topps pack matched the forgeries I have shown here. That's because this stuff is happening after they come out of the packs, and the evidence is all over with people forging Pujols signature right and left on buybacks, 2001 Fleer Legacy, 2001 Bowman Chrome, ect. All it takes is for one scammer to pick these cards up at a show, remove the Pujols sticker, replace with a forgery, and then start peddling them on Ebay through various id's and at various shows to unsuspecting people(many times they use alias id's on Ebay that belong to their friends who assist in completing the scams for $$). That is how they can spread all over so quickly. Meanwhile, the scammers are left with an authentic Pujols sig that they can peddle later on for at least a hundred or more dollars. They get to make money on 2 ends of one card.
<< <i>"...Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. ..."
/////////////////////////////////////////
I don't see how TOPPS - or any other card company - could do
it any other way.
The sigs would have no verifiable integrity, if they were not signed
in the presence of the company rep. >>
I know for a fact that Upper Deck uses their dealer network to use local people to act as UD reps for a particular signing. To me it's ridiculous... One 'rep' who works at a local card store told me they had the player making silly inscriptions on the stickers towards the end of the signing, some just writing a smiley face (no auto)...
<< <i>
<< <i>Topps has a representative sit down with the player to do the signing. I have met 2 people who have represented Topps at signings, and talked with a third.
What would the representative have to gain by letting someone other than the player sign the stickers?
Nick >>
Yep.
When any player signs for Topps it needs to be watched by a Topps official or someone that can certify that I actually signed the cards and no one else like my wife or brother jumped in and signed a couple (this has happened in the past with players). In my case the person in charge of watching me was Evan Kaplan, director of trading cards for the MLBPA. Evan had to sign an affidavit swearing that he would watch me sign every card. Pat Neshek
Exactly..
These TTT Pujols autographed cards are being altered AFTER they leave the packs.
<< <i>
Exactly..
These TTT Pujols autographed cards are being altered AFTER they leave the packs. >>
I know. Well, I dunno if the autos are real as that's not my area of expertise but from all the Pujols autos I've see on numerous boards, they do look off. I just saw a chance to use a pic I had saved.
wouldnt even want one real or fake....
YOU KNOW WHO IS TO BLAME FOR THIS MESS?
DONRUSS THATS WHO...
THEY USHERED IN STICKER AUTOS ENMASSE IN 2001.....THE ONLY pUJOLS ROOKIE YEAR CARDS WITH STICKERS IS DONRUSS....NO TOPPS STICKERS OR ud THAT YEAR!
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice.
<< <i>Can someone post a cliff's note version of this thread, please? >>
Sure.
1) Pujols signs his name like a 3rd grader so it's easy to copy
2) Every time a Pujols auto is suspected of being forged somewhere in the world, a new thread is started
3) We are currently on Pujols fake auto thread #17
Again, it's really simple, if some of you don't like these types of threads, no one is forcing you to open them. You can move onto something else on here. There are many other topics on here to partake in, or you can start one on a subject you want to discuss. That's the whole point of this forum.
<< <i>
<< <i>Can someone post a cliff's note version of this thread, please? >>
Sure.
1) Pujols signs his name like a 3rd grader so it's easy to copy
2) Every time a Pujols auto is suspected of being forged somewhere in the world, a new thread is started
3) We are currently on Pujols fake auto thread #17 >>
how is he supposed to sign? an illegible smear or scribble..the guy has a cool auto and you give him $%%$ for that...you Pujols haters are nauseating GO AWAY HAMMERED
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>If you really think that this is some large conspiracy theory with people making these fake pujols autographs across the country, than there is nothing else I can offer to this discussion. If you cannot seem to fathom that either the signature on the cards are real or that somehow topps screwed up, then there is no point discussing it further. There is plenty of evidence out there to these being pulled out of packs like this, but you chose to ignore that evidence and just go with some kind of idea that these are being bought and forged in large amounts and being sold at a rapid pace. Rember, all of the fakes had to have been bought, resigned and then relisted by multiple sellers in multiple states with no connection to each other in 7 days! >>
Provide the evidence you speak of, since you say there is plenty of it. I have posted examples that are legit and fake as comparison. You obviously don't understand what is going on here, or how these people operate.
<< <i>How long before STM blames this all on everyone here and says he's never posting here again? >>
How long before you realize you are an idiot? Why don't you move on instead of trolling in a thread that you obviously have no interest in other than looking to see if you can stir the pot.
Edit: And for the record; I was not going to come back and post on here, but some repected board members told me that they would like to see me post more often, and to not let idiots like yourself keep me away.
<< <i>How long before you realize you are an idiot? >>
Hi pot!!
My name is kettle.
<< <i>
<< <i>How long before you realize you are an idiot? >>
Hi pot!!
My name is kettle. >>
Just look at your avatar to get a taste of your mentality. Nuff said..
9000+ posts of nonsense..
What is the point of taking off a real Pujols auto and putting it on a base card when they can just take a joe shmoe auto wipe it off and do the same?
Whats the point of ruining a real Pujols TTT card when they can just ruin a a worthless card???
This is my first post here but im very confused here
What is the point of taking off a real Pujols auto and putting it on a base card when they can just take a joe shmoe auto wipe it off and do the same?
Whats the point of ruining a real Pujols TTT card when they can just ruin a a worthless card???
Then you have 2 valuable cards. a single base card with an authentic pujols auto, and a TTT card with a seemingly authentic pujols auto.
It's obvious the TTT pujols is a fake. The sticker doesn't even look the same as the others. As a buyer, I'd be afraid it was tampered with.
If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
..............................................
<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Bingo!
And if anyone doubts my opinion on the Pujols sigs I called fake, crop them out, set up a PSA/DNA quick opinion on the signatures in question. If I am wrong, I will double your money back on the QO fee for each one of them. Or any other wager you want to propose. I will stand behind my opinion on the signatures being forgeries.
"... set up a PSA/DNA quick opinion on the signatures in question...."
///////////////
Somebody who is curious enough, might ought to consider that.
...........
In my amateur opinion, the sigs noted as fakes ARE fakes. I base
that on comparisons to PSA/DNA sigs that have been slabbed.
<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Storm, I am very suprised you have taken this stance. The only evidence we have of anything is that there are two different versions of Pujols autographs used for 2009 topps Triple Threads cards and one type of the autographs are questionable... You are usually a very logical and even keeled thinker... Think about it, these cards are quite hard to find, where did the supply of these re-signed cards come from? None were ever on ebay previously and there have been no major shows where multiples would have been offered for sale at any one time since the release of this product... Not to mention that the ebay sellers involved have no connection to each other, are not selling any other questionable cards . If these sellers are all legit, how did the cards re-circulate across the country without the use of ebay, a major show, or the use of any ther online venue, because no one has come up with any of the "before" pictures.... Also, the thing that no one has mentioned is that the process to remove a sticker from a card pretty much destroys the card it was removed from . That is why stickers are removed from crap cards that are just thrown away. There is no real gain to remove a sticker from one of these cards at the risk of damaging it. Until anyone sees any one of these cards with a matching serial numer with two different autographs this argument is not going anywhere.
Specializing in Certified Autograph Cards, Rookies, Rare Inserts and other quality modern cards! Over 8000 Cards in stock now! Come visit our physical store located at 1210 Main St. Belmar ,NJ
<< <i>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
exactly,thats why this doesnt make any sense
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
and they wouldnt anyway.....?
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<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Aren't these stickers on the TTT cards Topps auto stickers?
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<< <i>If the sigs noted as fake ARE fake, it is clear to me that:
1. Legit signed stickers are being removed.
2. Wiped stickers - with forged sigs - are being placed where the legit stickers were originally.
3. The removed legit stickers are being placed on other cards.
4. BOTH groups of cards are being resold.
5.The chance that the fake sigs are being pulled from packs is VERY low.
6. ONE crook with the help of his associates can easily flood EBAY with the fakes VERY quickly.
.............................................. >>
Storm, I am very suprised you have taken this stance. The only evidence we have of anything is that there are two different versions of Pujols autographs used for 2009 topps Triple Threads cards and one type of the autographs are questionable... You are usually a very logical and even keeled thinker... Think about it, these cards are quite hard to find, where did the supply of these re-signed cards come from? None were ever on ebay previously and there have been no major shows where multiples would have been offered for sale at any one time since the release of this product... Not to mention that the ebay sellers involved have no connection to each other, are not selling any other questionable cards . If these sellers are all legit, how did the cards re-circulate across the country without the use of ebay, a major show, or the use of any ther online venue, because no one has come up with any of the "before" pictures.... Also, the thing that no one has mentioned is that the process to remove a sticker from a card pretty much destroys the card it was removed from . That is why stickers are removed from crap cards that are just thrown away. There is no real gain to remove a sticker from one of these cards at the risk of damaging it. Until anyone sees any one of these cards with a matching serial numer with two different autographs this argument is not going anywhere. >>
You simply don't understand the concept. Yes, the stickers can be removed without destroying the card. I seen a thread on a message board in the past where a guy removed a Musial sticker autograph, and then sent it to Stan Musial so the card so be directly signed "on card". In the end, the card looked like it was an "on card" signature straight from the pack. No signs of damage, or that it was originally a sticker autograph card..
Clearly, there is gain to be had if the scammer can pass off a bogus Pujols signature as legit, and sell the legit Pujols signature on another card for at least $100 or more as well. Essentially, they can make money twice on one Pujols signature.
My offer stands on the quick opinion process..
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<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Precisely.. You truly understand.
<< <i>
<< <i>
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<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Precisely.. You truly understand.
What is the difference between one of these TTT stickers and the Topps auto stickers that are used for other Topps issues?
Can anyone confirm that and can anyone confirm real Pujols autos are on these dull stickers?
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<< <i>
<< <i>
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<< <i>So what do they do with the real Pujols auto sticker after they peel it off and replace it with a dud? >>
At last weekend's St. Louis Sportscollectors Show, a guy walking around the show had (2) Topps Pujols base cards with authentic Pujols sticker signatures on them. The Pujols autographs were real, but the (2) cards in question were not issued signed. They were base cards. It sparked my curiousity, so I asked him where he got them, and he said he made a deal with a guy on the internet, and got a good deal on the pair. When I pressed a little further, he wanted to know why I was so interested, and I explained to him the situation. He claimed he got them from a guy in NJ. I tried to get the guy's name, but he declined. He claimed he paid $200 for the pair, but he had no idea that the (2) base cards were never pulled from packs like that, and that they were in fact 'custom-made'. I explained to him that $200 for (2) authentic Pujols signatures was not a bad deal, but it bothered me as to how the seller obtained the (2) genuine Topps Pujols signed stickers, to place on the base cards. At the time, I thought maybe some of them might have been backdoored or stolen from Topps, but then I started noticing the forged Pujols signatures on the TTT stickers, so I suspect this may tie into some of what we are seeing. After I thought about it, it's a pretty clever scam by the scammers, as they can make money on a Pujols signature twice. >>
This still doesn't explain why you wouldn't just get a sticker of a no-name player, wipe it, forge Pujols' signature on it, and affix that sticker to the Topps base card that was not originally issued as signed. >>
It would be known that the card wasn't issued as an auto'd card. Nobody will question a Pujols card (like the TTT) that is supposed to be signed.
If you took a generic topps card and attached a topps auto sticker, someone would know something was up. >>
Precisely.. You truly understand.
What is the difference between one of these TTT stickers and the Topps auto stickers that are used for other Topps issues? >>
They are the same, but you have to start thinking like one of the scammers. The backs of the TTT cards have a coa stating it's a legit Pujols sig, ect... The base card does not. By placing the legit Pujols sticker sig on a base card, it builds credibility in that being legit, since it does not have the coa on the back like the TTT cards do. It's all smoke and mirrors for a quick buck. Dump before people catch on. By the time they do, the scammers have made their money, and the cards are floating around our hobby. Then they are onto something else.
Edit: typos/spell
<< <i>I read on another board that the dull stickers are used, sometimes? for football.
Can anyone confirm that and can anyone confirm real Pujols autos are on these dull stickers? >>
I provided scans of 4 legit Pujols autos on dull stickers, on page #2 of this thread.
Gotta be real
But if you compare it to those you posted on page one, it looks virtually identical to the one you claim to be fake, and nothing like the one you say is real.
I think you're barking up the wrong tree with this one.