1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF revisited...introduction to my theory

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Comments

  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Excellent stuff Dave. Once I can locate an Acker and Biggio, my goal is to put a mosaic together and do just what you've done. If by chance the outline is of something recognizable...it could be very interesting.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • ajwajw Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭
    This is fascinating. My guess is that we'll see this highlighted in a Beckett story in the next couple of months.

    Great work, guys!
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    I've added the NNOF to your work Dave. This is where we currently stand.

    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • AUPTAUPT Posts: 810 ✭✭✭
    The key to getting the TPGs to accept the variations is to get them listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and/or the Beckett Almanac. I'll see what I can do to get them into the SCBC, but it may not be in time for the 2010-dated edition.

    image
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭


    << <i>The key to getting the TPGs to accept the variations is to get them listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and/or the Beckett Almanac. I'll see what I can do to get them into the SCBC, but it may not be in time for the 2010-dated edition.

    image >>



    That's true, I didn't even think of that. Thank you for your help.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • yankeeno7yankeeno7 Posts: 9,013 ✭✭✭
    If you could only find a pic or an actual uncut sheet with the Thomas error. Then you would know exactly what cards were affected on the entire sheet.
    Some people are like slinkies..Not really good for anything, but they bring a smile to your face when you push one down a flight of stairs.

    yup
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    It would be nice to think that one exists, but I've never heard of one being out there. By all accounts the error was found after distribution...I don't know if I believe that or not. Like I said in the original post, I don't think it was an intentional error, I just believe Topps chose to run with it after it occurred.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    awesome!!!!!!!!!


    I want them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol



    again , I am new here but this board is the best.

    I was thinking about selling my card collection do to the economy and found this board.

    Now I am 100% back for good
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    anyone want to trade me one of these ??????????????
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”


  • << <i>awesome!!!!!!!!!


    I want them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol


    again , I am new here but this board is the best.

    I was thinking about selling my card collection do to the economy and found this board.

    Now I am 100% back for good >>





    richtree, I recognize your name from the br.com forum..ish thing.

    Hello !! Happy Hunting
    imageimageimage
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    richtree, at this point, there really aren't any available for trade as we're just uncovering them. I definitely suggest going through any 1990 Topps you have at hand.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    yes i will -- all night !
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • cwazzycwazzy Posts: 3,348
    I just sent Beckett an e-mail about Ross' theory and a link to this thread. Hopefully they think it's as great an idea for an article as I do.

    Chris
    Chris
    My small collection
    Want List:
    '61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
    Cardinal T206 cards
    Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
  • I checked my cards and found no breaks in any of the black borders. I bought all of my '90 Topps cards in the Pacific Northwest in case that helps your research in any way...
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Thanks for the info. That would certainly follow what I know about the NNOF card. Every example I've heard of being pulled came out of NY, VA, MD, NC, SC, and GA.

    Thanks again.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 982 ✭✭✭
    We're going to need to see the rest of the sheet BoB! Again following up on the premise that the error would extend to the Biggio AS (and perhaps beyond) I found this in my collection. I'd say the Biggio definitly exists.

    Check out the blackless swath cut across this Jeff Russell AS (#395)

    image
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    [email protected]
  • This just keeps getting better and better.
    imageimageimage
  • fujfuj Posts: 550 ✭✭


    << <i>This just keeps getting better and better. >>



    That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    Likely the Magrane and Fisk then too! Holy hell how did someone not notice a scrap that big spanning 6 cards?
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Geez...you're a machine...I can't believe you didn't pull a NNOF back in the day...
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    That is substantial...wow...I'll dig out the rest of the numbers in the diagonal cross section tonight.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Geez...you're a machine...I can't believe you didn't pull a NNOF back in the day... >>



    I was thinking the same!

    I wonder if Topps noticed the NNOF's and pulled some of them, but let the others go not realizing them?

    Edited to clarify Topps
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Ok, rough estimate here...potentially affected cards:

    93 Shawn Hillegas
    104 Bob Knepper
    121 Robin Ventura
    200 Don Mattingly
    302 Marcus Lawton
    385 Fred McGriff All Star
    386 Julio Franco
    392 Carlton Fisk All Star
    413 Brian DuBois
    433 Steve Olin
    469 John Kruk
    555 Jack Morris
    652 Mike Broddicker
    659 Greg Cadaret

    This isn't complete...I've got to measure the angles and get the exact diagonal, but this is a start...these are all orange cards from sheet F.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • cwazzycwazzy Posts: 3,348
    I'm guessing the Mattingly could proove to be a fairly pricey card if it turns out to be a new variation (assuming one is found).

    Chris
    Chris
    My small collection
    Want List:
    '61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
    Cardinal T206 cards
    Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I'm guessing the Mattingly could proove to be a fairly pricey card if it turns out to be a new variation (assuming one is found).

    Chris >>



    If it's is, it would only be a small portion of the corner...I put it in there for "hope."
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • So how about a photo of all the potential cards in the 'path' of the missing black ink, so we could have a rough idea where to look on the cards for the discoloration? Or at least an idea?

    BTW, GREAT WORK!!!!
    2001-2014 Topps Heritage complete!
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    I'm working on that. I don't have a camera, just a camera phone, so you'll have to work with me a bit.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Sorry about my grammar and spelling...I'm working really fast to gather this information and to talk to people at the same time...I'm not proofing well enough.

    edited for grammar lol
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com


  • << <i>I'm working on that. I don't have a camera, just a camera phone, so you'll have to work with me a bit. >>



    That's cool. It will probably look like a tornado's path across the sheet. image
    2001-2014 Topps Heritage complete!
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Here's what I have for the moment.

    I'm going to go to the store and try to come up with a suitable way to mount this thing so that I can see the front or back, but it is protected.

    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    Lowe's/Home Depot have large sheets of plexiglass. Buy 2 of those and a few binder clips...
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    I'm going to try to find 2 large poster frames and steal the acrylic from one and use it as the backing for the other. I'm scared to even think what plexiglass would run.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • I think $50-$100.
    imageimageimage
  • thekid8thekid8 Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭
    This is a fantastic read --- just spent the last hour going through boxes of 1990 cards and ~~ nada ~~ but just the thrill of the chase was fun

    My vote for thread of the year
    Gary Carter Fans check out www.thekid8.com

    image
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    I'm glad you've enjoyed it. I can tell you I'm thrilled to see an idea that's been in my head for some time come to fruition. I never imagined it would unfold this way. I think I got really lucky that I chose this forum to present the concept to...I couldn't have asked for better results.

    The right place at the right time kind of thing because Dave has obviously come through beyond my wildest dreams.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com


  • << <i>I'm going to try to find 2 large poster frames and steal the acrylic from one and use it as the backing for the other. I'm scared to even think what plexiglass would run. >>



    Check into it at Home Depot or Lowes. I bought some a while back to build model car cases out of, and I don't remember it being too expensive.
    2001-2014 Topps Heritage complete!
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Current projections...

    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    That Russell is so ridiculously obvious. How was this never discovered!?
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭


    << <i>That Russell is so ridiculously obvious. How was this never discovered!? >>



    Lol I don't know...that's an absolutely amazing error...the Biggio has potential to be equally impressive.

    edited to add...including the McGriff & Franco All-Stars...they're almost certainly included as well.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • Wow that is all I can say!

    Great detective work.
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    Ok, I've got a new theory on how these occurred. While it may still be a card stock strip and I'm not dismissing it completely...it's highly unlikely as the blackless area isn't uniform in any way.

    In my opinion, the affected area looks almost like a "fluid" swipe, much like the trail of water left after a windshield wiper sweeps. I think this may be an accidental occurrence from the offset printing process.

    I'm quoting an old post by Keith (SoFLPhillyFan) in a Donruss Aqueous solution thread...he apparently worked in offset printing around this time.

    "The offset printing process up until then involved burning the image onto a photographic plate which was then mounted on the printing press. As the press revolved a solution of water, chemicals and salts, and alcohol was applied to the plate along with the ink. The water solution kept the non-image or blank areas of the plate from attracting ink. The ink stuck to the image areas.

    In the early 90s some companies tested plates that needed only water to keep the non-image areas clean. This cut down on the exposure to chemicals, and cut costs. Some of these plates worked, some did not."

    Ok...modified theory here, same result. I'd love to hear some thoughts.

    edited to add this for clarity:

    What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com


  • << <i>Ok, rough estimate here...potentially affected cards: >>



    Thanks for the list. I've printed it out and want to have some fun checking my hoard again.

    It's fun to enjoy some cards I haven't seen since boxing them up 19(?!) years ago...
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭


    << <i>
    What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area. >>



    Hmm. That's an interesting theory. I'll call a couple of our printers on Monday, show them the scans and see what they think.

    I'm still leaning toward a paper obstruction, but the odd shape may be better explained by your new theory.

    Though they're not offset, this image shows what happens when an obstruction ends up on a currency press. It's a little more dramatic/easy to see because it's only 2 colors.


    image
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,143 ✭✭✭
    That's very cool. Thanks for posting that.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 982 ✭✭✭
    Julio Franco confirmed.

    Another great blackless area on an all star card.

    As mentioned earlier of course with my luck I never pulled the Thomas - must have been in the right general area though.

    image
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    [email protected]
  • lucasjlucasj Posts: 124 ✭✭
    best. thread. ever.

    that franco is ridiculous. i can't believe it took almost 20 years for this to come to light.
    Slowly (sometimes very) collecting:
    1987 Topps FB - Auto'd
    Kirby Puckett - Master Set - Raw
    Al Newman - Master Set - Raw
    Al Toon - Master Set - Raw
    1965 Topps Baseball mid-grade set - Raw
    1970-71 Topps Basketball mid-grade set - Raw
    Troy Bell - Master Set - Raw
  • cwazzycwazzy Posts: 3,348


    << <i>best. thread. ever.

    that franco is ridiculous. i can't believe it took almost 20 years for this to come to light. >>



    It's quickly becoming my favorite as well.

    Chris
    Chris
    My small collection
    Want List:
    '61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
    Cardinal T206 cards
    Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭
    UNBELIEVABLE that no one has noticed these in 20 years.
  • gameusedhoopgameusedhoop Posts: 3,347 ✭✭✭
    They actually sell top loaders for sheets of cards, or at least they did 15-20 years ago. A little searching the BCW etc should turn up something. I've had them in the past, but don't have any now.
    Edit: Ultra Pro has 24x36 and 29x43 sizes I would think you need 29x43 Link: Top loader for sheets
    I'm on ebay as gameusedhoop. My items currently for sale: gameusedhoop on Ebay
  • initialDinitialD Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭
    100
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