Excellent stuff Dave. Once I can locate an Acker and Biggio, my goal is to put a mosaic together and do just what you've done. If by chance the outline is of something recognizable...it could be very interesting.
The key to getting the TPGs to accept the variations is to get them listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and/or the Beckett Almanac. I'll see what I can do to get them into the SCBC, but it may not be in time for the 2010-dated edition.
<< <i>The key to getting the TPGs to accept the variations is to get them listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and/or the Beckett Almanac. I'll see what I can do to get them into the SCBC, but it may not be in time for the 2010-dated edition.
>>
That's true, I didn't even think of that. Thank you for your help.
It would be nice to think that one exists, but I've never heard of one being out there. By all accounts the error was found after distribution...I don't know if I believe that or not. Like I said in the original post, I don't think it was an intentional error, I just believe Topps chose to run with it after it occurred.
I was thinking about selling my card collection do to the economy and found this board.
Now I am 100% back for good
Buying: Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon 80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name" 90 ProSet Dexter Manley error 90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back 1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”) 81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat) 91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
anyone want to trade me one of these ??????????????
Buying: Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon 80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name" 90 ProSet Dexter Manley error 90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back 1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”) 81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat) 91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
richtree, at this point, there really aren't any available for trade as we're just uncovering them. I definitely suggest going through any 1990 Topps you have at hand.
Buying: Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon 80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name" 90 ProSet Dexter Manley error 90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back 1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”) 81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat) 91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
I checked my cards and found no breaks in any of the black borders. I bought all of my '90 Topps cards in the Pacific Northwest in case that helps your research in any way...
Thanks for the info. That would certainly follow what I know about the NNOF card. Every example I've heard of being pulled came out of NY, VA, MD, NC, SC, and GA.
We're going to need to see the rest of the sheet BoB! Again following up on the premise that the error would extend to the Biggio AS (and perhaps beyond) I found this in my collection. I'd say the Biggio definitly exists.
Check out the blackless swath cut across this Jeff Russell AS (#395)
Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors. saucywombat@hotmail.com
93 Shawn Hillegas 104 Bob Knepper 121 Robin Ventura 200 Don Mattingly 302 Marcus Lawton 385 Fred McGriff All Star 386 Julio Franco 392 Carlton Fisk All Star 413 Brian DuBois 433 Steve Olin 469 John Kruk 555 Jack Morris 652 Mike Broddicker 659 Greg Cadaret
This isn't complete...I've got to measure the angles and get the exact diagonal, but this is a start...these are all orange cards from sheet F.
So how about a photo of all the potential cards in the 'path' of the missing black ink, so we could have a rough idea where to look on the cards for the discoloration? Or at least an idea?
Sorry about my grammar and spelling...I'm working really fast to gather this information and to talk to people at the same time...I'm not proofing well enough.
I'm going to try to find 2 large poster frames and steal the acrylic from one and use it as the backing for the other. I'm scared to even think what plexiglass would run.
I'm glad you've enjoyed it. I can tell you I'm thrilled to see an idea that's been in my head for some time come to fruition. I never imagined it would unfold this way. I think I got really lucky that I chose this forum to present the concept to...I couldn't have asked for better results.
The right place at the right time kind of thing because Dave has obviously come through beyond my wildest dreams.
<< <i>I'm going to try to find 2 large poster frames and steal the acrylic from one and use it as the backing for the other. I'm scared to even think what plexiglass would run. >>
Check into it at Home Depot or Lowes. I bought some a while back to build model car cases out of, and I don't remember it being too expensive.
Ok, I've got a new theory on how these occurred. While it may still be a card stock strip and I'm not dismissing it completely...it's highly unlikely as the blackless area isn't uniform in any way.
In my opinion, the affected area looks almost like a "fluid" swipe, much like the trail of water left after a windshield wiper sweeps. I think this may be an accidental occurrence from the offset printing process.
I'm quoting an old post by Keith (SoFLPhillyFan) in a Donruss Aqueous solution thread...he apparently worked in offset printing around this time.
"The offset printing process up until then involved burning the image onto a photographic plate which was then mounted on the printing press. As the press revolved a solution of water, chemicals and salts, and alcohol was applied to the plate along with the ink. The water solution kept the non-image or blank areas of the plate from attracting ink. The ink stuck to the image areas.
In the early 90s some companies tested plates that needed only water to keep the non-image areas clean. This cut down on the exposure to chemicals, and cut costs. Some of these plates worked, some did not."
Ok...modified theory here, same result. I'd love to hear some thoughts.
edited to add this for clarity:
What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area.
<< <i> What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area. >>
Hmm. That's an interesting theory. I'll call a couple of our printers on Monday, show them the scans and see what they think.
I'm still leaning toward a paper obstruction, but the odd shape may be better explained by your new theory.
Though they're not offset, this image shows what happens when an obstruction ends up on a currency press. It's a little more dramatic/easy to see because it's only 2 colors.
They actually sell top loaders for sheets of cards, or at least they did 15-20 years ago. A little searching the BCW etc should turn up something. I've had them in the past, but don't have any now. Edit: Ultra Pro has 24x36 and 29x43 sizes I would think you need 29x43 Link: Top loader for sheets
Comments
Great work, guys!
<< <i>The key to getting the TPGs to accept the variations is to get them listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball Cards and/or the Beckett Almanac. I'll see what I can do to get them into the SCBC, but it may not be in time for the 2010-dated edition.
That's true, I didn't even think of that. Thank you for your help.
I want them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
again , I am new here but this board is the best.
I was thinking about selling my card collection do to the economy and found this board.
Now I am 100% back for good
Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
<< <i>awesome!!!!!!!!!
I want them now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol
again , I am new here but this board is the best.
I was thinking about selling my card collection do to the economy and found this board.
Now I am 100% back for good >>
richtree, I recognize your name from the br.com forum..ish thing.
Hello !! Happy Hunting
Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
Thanks again.
Check out the blackless swath cut across this Jeff Russell AS (#395)
saucywombat@hotmail.com
<< <i>This just keeps getting better and better. >>
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!
<< <i>Geez...you're a machine...I can't believe you didn't pull a NNOF back in the day... >>
I was thinking the same!
I wonder if Topps noticed the NNOF's and pulled some of them, but let the others go not realizing them?
Edited to clarify Topps
93 Shawn Hillegas
104 Bob Knepper
121 Robin Ventura
200 Don Mattingly
302 Marcus Lawton
385 Fred McGriff All Star
386 Julio Franco
392 Carlton Fisk All Star
413 Brian DuBois
433 Steve Olin
469 John Kruk
555 Jack Morris
652 Mike Broddicker
659 Greg Cadaret
This isn't complete...I've got to measure the angles and get the exact diagonal, but this is a start...these are all orange cards from sheet F.
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
<< <i>I'm guessing the Mattingly could proove to be a fairly pricey card if it turns out to be a new variation (assuming one is found).
Chris >>
If it's is, it would only be a small portion of the corner...I put it in there for "hope."
BTW, GREAT WORK!!!!
edited for grammar lol
<< <i>I'm working on that. I don't have a camera, just a camera phone, so you'll have to work with me a bit. >>
That's cool. It will probably look like a tornado's path across the sheet.
I'm going to go to the store and try to come up with a suitable way to mount this thing so that I can see the front or back, but it is protected.
My vote for thread of the year
The right place at the right time kind of thing because Dave has obviously come through beyond my wildest dreams.
<< <i>I'm going to try to find 2 large poster frames and steal the acrylic from one and use it as the backing for the other. I'm scared to even think what plexiglass would run. >>
Check into it at Home Depot or Lowes. I bought some a while back to build model car cases out of, and I don't remember it being too expensive.
<< <i>That Russell is so ridiculously obvious. How was this never discovered!? >>
Lol I don't know...that's an absolutely amazing error...the Biggio has potential to be equally impressive.
edited to add...including the McGriff & Franco All-Stars...they're almost certainly included as well.
Great detective work.
In my opinion, the affected area looks almost like a "fluid" swipe, much like the trail of water left after a windshield wiper sweeps. I think this may be an accidental occurrence from the offset printing process.
I'm quoting an old post by Keith (SoFLPhillyFan) in a Donruss Aqueous solution thread...he apparently worked in offset printing around this time.
"The offset printing process up until then involved burning the image onto a photographic plate which was then mounted on the printing press. As the press revolved a solution of water, chemicals and salts, and alcohol was applied to the plate along with the ink. The water solution kept the non-image or blank areas of the plate from attracting ink. The ink stuck to the image areas.
In the early 90s some companies tested plates that needed only water to keep the non-image areas clean. This cut down on the exposure to chemicals, and cut costs. Some of these plates worked, some did not."
Ok...modified theory here, same result. I'd love to hear some thoughts.
edited to add this for clarity:
What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area.
<< <i>Ok, rough estimate here...potentially affected cards: >>
Thanks for the list. I've printed it out and want to have some fun checking my hoard again.
It's fun to enjoy some cards I haven't seen since boxing them up 19(?!) years ago...
<< <i>
What I'm saying is that there is the potential that one of the above mentioned solutions was accidentally swiped across the plate, repelling the black ink from adhering to the streaked area. >>
Hmm. That's an interesting theory. I'll call a couple of our printers on Monday, show them the scans and see what they think.
I'm still leaning toward a paper obstruction, but the odd shape may be better explained by your new theory.
Though they're not offset, this image shows what happens when an obstruction ends up on a currency press. It's a little more dramatic/easy to see because it's only 2 colors.
Another great blackless area on an all star card.
As mentioned earlier of course with my luck I never pulled the Thomas - must have been in the right general area though.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
that franco is ridiculous. i can't believe it took almost 20 years for this to come to light.
1989 Hoops BB - Signed
Seattle Seahawks & Mariners Key Cards
Selectively Random Cards That Make Me Happy
<< <i>best. thread. ever.
that franco is ridiculous. i can't believe it took almost 20 years for this to come to light. >>
It's quickly becoming my favorite as well.
Chris
My small collection
Want List:
'61 Topps Roy Campanella in PSA 5-7
Cardinal T206 cards
Adam Wainwright GU Jersey
Edit: Ultra Pro has 24x36 and 29x43 sizes I would think you need 29x43 Link: Top loader for sheets