1990 Topps Frank Thomas NNOF revisited...introduction to my theory

145791021

Comments

  • DavidPuddyDavidPuddy Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭
    I think that was B unch O' B ull. BOB.
    "The Sipe market is ridiculous right now"
    CDsNuts, 1/9/15
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭
    Good eyes.
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    Nice. I think I'm going to refer to you as Bob from now on.


  • << <i>I haven't reject BoBs offer, which was generous, or received any other, and I do want to help him on his quest. I just don't know what kind of value to expect on these as there's really no market. There was no market on the Thomas NNOF in 1990 and I gave one up for only $10. So I'm just being hesitant and feeling it out. I'd be surprised if any of them are worth even $25, but would kick myself in places unseen if I found out next month they were trading at $200. Especially considering the paycut I had to take ar work recently. >>



    One did sell for $25 awhile back on ebay. Unsure of who the player was. It's mentioned in a NNOF thread on Beckett. I'd link it but ever since our IT tech "repaired" my work computer, I get a IE error when I go to Beckett and it closes. Everytime ! Odd.

    What do you collect? A few others and myself want to add to BOB's offer. Please post your interests.

    He got the ball rolling on this and I feel it's fitting he owns the cards he led the discovery on.
    imageimageimage
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 996 ✭✭✭
    Does anyone have an example of the Jeff King error? Must be pretty scarce as even the Standard Catalog puts $100 on it. Rarer than Thomas NNOF?

    I notice that the 1982 Blackless commons command around $12.50 and are believed to be less than 100 in number per card. Right now I'd say that $25 would be a good guess on the scrubs, say $50 on a McGriff or Fisk, and maybe a higher premium on Biggio, but Biggio has never been a collector favorite despite a stellar career.

    If this topic was published - say in Beckett - and word got out maybe you would see a spike in value, but like most of the card market after the interested and motivated few have wet their appetites - prices come down quick.


    **Of course the sudden appearance of any card of $10+ from the "carpet bomb saturation" era of baseball card production is truly an event.
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    [email protected]
  • gigfygigfy Posts: 35
    Saucywombat, what does the Jeff King error look like?

    Slantycouch, did you make another montage with Fisk/Magrane? Did you think it stops at Tapani? It may still continue on through the Lawton?

    Cheers,
    gigfy
  • slantycouchslantycouch Posts: 1,713 ✭✭✭
    Haven't added them yet. I will this w/e. This is still the latest. Probably worth a bump for new readers anyway:


    image
  • jackstrawjackstraw Posts: 3,820 ✭✭✭

    Sorry I just read you didn't have time
    Collector Focus

    ON ITS WAY TO NEWPORT BEACH, CA 92658
  • Hey slantycouch,

    Did you ever get a chance to add the other error cards to your picture?

    Thanks,
    gigfy
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    From the depths of obscurity!
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 996 ✭✭✭
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    [email protected]
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    It may or may not have. I've sent messages back and forth with him recently, but didn't ask point blank. He was well known on the Beckett Boards for his error/variation knowledge, but I don't think it included the Mattingly until recently.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • ajwajw Posts: 2,304 ✭✭✭
    Wow. That seller has a ton of really obscure variations. I'm pretty sure I remember him from the Beckett board as well, and he was extremely generous with his knowledge about such oddball variations. I wonder how many of these are variations among different printing sheets? Aren't some cards printed on different sheets, with any small variations among those sheets resulting in the differences he's identified?

    Regardless, they sure are interesting. Additionally, as a player collector, I know I have quite a few similar oddball variations in my collection.
  • pandrewspandrews Posts: 8,166 ✭✭
    wow, this thread is awesome.. im impressed!
    ·p_A·
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Wow. That seller has a ton of really obscure variations. I'm pretty sure I remember him from the Beckett board as well, and he was extremely generous with his knowledge about such oddball variations. I wonder how many of these are variations among different printing sheets? Aren't some cards printed on different sheets, with any small variations among those sheets resulting in the differences he's identified?

    Regardless, they sure are interesting. Additionally, as a player collector, I know I have quite a few similar oddball variations in my collection. >>



    1990 Topps Baseball was printed on 6 sheets (A, B, C, D, E, and F), from what I can tell, there were no cards double printed.

    The Mattingly error is extremely common, it would appear to be found on at least 25% of the run. My only guess is that the process before the negatives for the black plates were created became slightly damaged some how. This resulted in multiple negatives with the little corner error, thus multiple plates with the error.

    With the errors that are found in common with the NNOF Thomas, it would appear that only one negative/plate was damaged.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭


    << <i>wow, this thread is awesome.. im impressed! >>



    Glad to see some folks migrating in to take a look. And thanks, we appreciate it.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • Chris - this w/e ? image
    imageimageimage
  • Wow- very interesting read, amazing that no one noticed this almost 20 years ago.
  • image


    Bunchobull, i think this is where all the black went on franks name, i pulled 2 of them today from a vending case
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    lol what is that???
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • jeffcbayjeffcbay Posts: 8,563 ✭✭✭
    image

    Did you really pull that? or am I that easy... because I AM that easy.
  • Yea, i swear!! two of them, same color border too, back has the x on it to, no letters or nothing, must be a blank that slipped in or something , ill scan the back of it, its the 1st time ive ever seen them too.
  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭
    How many of this card do you think exist? Always wanted one...
    Collector Interest: Clemente & Mantle
  • image

    this is the back, nothing on it
    i just got to thinking, these came out of a 90 topps 89 debut case i bought,cause the yellow on the back is the same, i saw too many 90 topps in the past 2 days
  • 1st ones ive saw, its the only debut case i've ever bought too, just to get the griffeys-50 sets in a case-2 of these, same color front
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How many of this card do you think exist? Always wanted one... >>



    Which card? The black X or the NNOF Thomas?
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • All I see is a black X. lol
    imageimageimage
  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭
    I don't know what that X is about, I'm talking the NNOF Thomas...
    Collector Interest: Clemente & Mantle
  • I'll call it the black x of death,sorry b o b , i was thing it was 90 topps, but it was 90 topps 89 rookies debut.
    It must have been a corner card or something, i like em,wish they were a different color thoughimage

    my wax case should be here tomorrow or wed, maybe itll be the blackless ones , i can hope anywaysimage
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I don't know what that X is about, I'm talking the NNOF Thomas... >>



    I think there are around 200 NNOFs. My opinion alone.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    Still a cool card ploobims...I've never seen one before.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • MintacularMintacular Posts: 1,057 ✭✭✭
    What is the current "book value" of that card? For example, if you were to put that up for sale tom. at .01 for 7 days, approx. what kind of final price could one expect???
    Collector Interest: Clemente & Mantle
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    In raw form, $250 to $450 on eBay.

    PSA 8, around $650.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    After going through stacks and stacks of old Beckett Magazines, this is the only specific article about the NNOF I've been able to come across...no real information here, but a look at this card from a 1994 perspective.

    image
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • gigfygigfy Posts: 35
    A few quick questions about the blank front error cards:

    Can these be faked easily? How?

    Does this error exist for each 1990 Topps baseball card?

    Thanks,
    gigfy
  • saucywombatsaucywombat Posts: 996 ✭✭✭


    << <i>A few quick questions about the blank front error cards:

    Can these be faked easily? How?

    Does this error exist for each 1990 Topps baseball card?

    Thanks,
    gigfy >>



    Apparently they are quite plentiful. I'm not sure about the faking part though. I wouldn't consider them errors. There seems to be no real premium for them so I don't know that faking them is a good use of time. I saw an entire set (all 792) offered on Ebay for around $75 - Buy it Now.
    Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors.
    [email protected]
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    Yes, they're plentiful and not errors...but for player collectors still cool.

    Jim (ArchStanton) gave me this beauty...

    image

    I also have a few 1990 Bowman Thomas' with wrong backs.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • I originally posted this on beckett. This is a run down on my Topps blank front/back experience (as far as scarcity goes):

    1981 fronts: never seen

    1981 backs: see them periodically, but somewhat scarce.

    1982 fronts: never seen

    1982 backs: see them once in a while, somewhat scarce

    1983 fronts: never seen

    1983 backs: see them often, still tough to find

    1984 fronts: can't recall seeing one

    1984 backs: see them on ebay periodically, not too rare but the proofs are, you can tell the difference by looking at the inset photo, if it's inside the box, it's a proof.

    1985 fronts: have seen a couple, pretty scarce

    1985 backs: have only seen a few, pretty scarce (McGwire is always a fake)

    1986 fronts: haven't seen any

    1986 backs: show up once in a while, but pretty scarce

    1987 fronts: show up often, not too scarce

    1987 backs: show up periodically, somewhat tougher to locate

    1988 fronts: show up often, not too scarce

    1988 backs: show up periodically, somewhat tougher to locate

    1989 fronts: fairly common, many found in Fairfield Target blisters and Kruk Cards sells complete sets of them. Probably the easiest to find of the 80's.

    1989 backs: have only seen a few, somewhat scarce

    1990 fronts: fairly common, show up often for sale in large lots or quantity of player or sets.

    1990 backs: have only seen a handful over the last 19 years. The Griffey that shows up for sale is usually cut from the top of the box and not a "real" blankback.

    1991 fronts: fairly common, show up often for sale in large batches or sets.

    1991 backs: scarce but once or twice a year you'll see them offered - usually just commons. Another tough year for blankbacks.

    1992 fronts: hardly ever offered for sale.

    1992 backs: fairly common.

    1993 fronts: Kruk cards has had many complete sets of these. Pretty common.

    1993 backs: not scarce but not too common either.
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • Here is a scan of the 1990 Topps Mike Scott with a little bit of black ink missing (came from the same factory set as the Drabek I sold)

    image
    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    Great eye on the Scott...very cool.
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭
    eBay listing quoting the "discovery"...

    Two (2) 1990 Topps Wax Boxes
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • You made it on ebay rossimage
  • BunchOBullBunchOBull Posts: 6,144 ✭✭✭


    << <i>You made it on ebay rossimage >>



    lol I figure it's probably one of the guys on here because the seller ID looks really familiar
    Collector of most things Frank Thomas. www.BigHurtHOF.com
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    anyone have a pic of the back of #454 Jeff King's error Card where (No white on back?)

    this is one card I am trying to buy / trade for and would like a good scan to start!


    thanks guys

    hey , big D, I think you need to get ur pops to dig this one out for me,. lol., thanks !
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
  • lol. I wish. Likely there's just a ton of rev neg '90 Donruss Juan Gonzalez in there. That reminds me, I'll get on that Welch.

    I've never seen the King and looked around awhile back, in E/V groups, the msg boards, net etc . jacksoncoupage was asking around for a pic as well and came up empty handed. If you get a pic, lmk.
    imageimageimage
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    Yeah, I know...I found some King's at home, but I guess I would notice what ever the error is ...thanks for responding...

    rich
    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”


  • << <i>Yeah, I know...I found some King's at home, but I guess I would notice what ever the error is ...thanks for responding...

    rich >>


    This card has been a huge mystery to me. I've purchased so many copies of the Jeff King from beckett.com dealers and have yet to find anything matching this vague description. The closest I have is a copy with a few vertical yellow lines through the name and position on back.

    Here is what we know:

    -SCD recognizes it.

    -The error is on the reverse.

    -1990 Topps do NOT have any white on their backs.

    Here is what I think:

    A. SCD is referring to the gray area on the reverse.

    B. "No white on back" means that the gray area is colored yellow which suggests that the yellow plate ran and this variation is actually a printing flaw like the Frank Thomas. Which means that there would likely be other players in the surrounding area affected by this.

    OR...

    C. "No white on back" means that the gray area is blacked-out which suggests that the black ink ran...etc. But this seems unlikely because if this were the case they would've likely described it as 'blacked-out" or "no name" or "no number", etc.

    My Error & Variation Blog

    Collecting Robin Ventura and Matt Luke.
  • AUPTAUPT Posts: 810 ✭✭✭
    I examined the "discovery" card for the Jeff King "no white" variation before it was listed in the Standard Catalog.

    The error is that the areas that are "white" (actually the natural gray cardboard color) at the top of a "normal" card -- the card number, the background of the biographical detail panel and the topps square, and the player name and position -- are yellow on this card. Faulty color stripping is the culprit. Based on my limited knowledge of Topps pre-printing processes of the time, my guess is that the other cards are that particular press sheet were NOT affected.

    I have never seen another example of the King error card, nor any other player exhibiting the same error.

    Obviously the error would be very easy to replicate with the right shade of yellow marker, so any purported example of this card would have to be closely examined under magnification to be authenticated.
  • AricAric Posts: 764 ✭✭


    << <i>I examined the "discovery" card for the Jeff King "no white" variation before it was listed in the Standard Catalog.

    The error is that the areas that are "white" (actually the natural gray cardboard color) at the top of a "normal" card -- the card number, the background of the biographical detail panel and the topps square, and the player name and position -- are yellow on this card. Faulty color stripping is the culprit. Based on my limited knowledge of Topps pre-printing processes of the time, my guess is that the other cards are that particular press sheet were NOT affected.

    I have never seen another example of the King error card, nor any other player exhibiting the same error.

    Obviously the error would be very easy to replicate with the right shade of yellow marker, so any purported example of this card would have to be closely examined under magnification to be authenticated. >>



    Is it possible that this was a one time printing defect and not a repeated problem? Is there definitively more than one copy out there?
  • richtreerichtree Posts: 1,440 ✭✭✭
    It is amazing that no one has seen or has the Jeff King error., lol

    Buying:
    90 Fleer Dave Martinez yellow 90'Front
    90 UD #702 Mike Witt
    91 Topps Mark Whiten hand out of the border
    Topps Heritage Cut out Alex Gordon
    Topps White Out (silver) letters Alex Gordon
    80 Topps Greg Pryor “No Name"
    90 ProSet Dexter Manley error
    90 Topps Jeff King Yellow back
    1958 Topps Pancho Herrera (no“a”)
    81 Topps Art Howe (black smear above hat)
    91 D A. Hawkins BC-12 “Pitcher”
145791021
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