Hello! I found this thread and decided to go dig out my old collection from when I was a kid and lo and behold, a nnof frank thomas along with 4 of the “blackless” cards discussed! I’m honestly just interested in selling these to someone that will appreciate them, so message me and Lmk how/who to reach if you are interested!
@Appletrader1 said:
Hello! I found this thread and decided to go dig out my old collection from when I was a kid and lo and behold, a nnof frank thomas along with 4 of the “blackless” cards discussed! I’m honestly just interested in selling these to someone that will appreciate them, so message me and Lmk how/who to reach if you are interested!
@Appletrader1 said:
Hello! I found this thread and decided to go dig out my old collection from when I was a kid and lo and behold, a nnof frank thomas along with 4 of the “blackless” cards discussed! I’m honestly just interested in selling these to someone that will appreciate them, so message me and Lmk how/who to reach if you are interested!
Just post your cards with time stamps. I have gots to see! I am always a buyer. Deep pockets, etc.
Hello! I found this thread and decided to go dig out my old collection from when I was a kid and lo and behold, a nnof frank thomas along with 4 of the “blackless” cards discussed! I’m honestly just interested in selling these to someone that will appreciate them, so message me and Lmk how/who to reach if you are interested!
Very cool that you found these, however we like to see pics in this thread. There are a lot of scammers out there and one of the more suspicious lines is the "just want to sell these to someone that appreciates them" leading many to rush into a bad decision in hopes of getting a deal. Pics or it didn't happen.
If you truly have these cards and are interested in selling you will find no shortage of buyers on this thread, the Facebook group or Ebay. Please provide pics to prove you are not scamming. A lot of us are still working behind the scenes, making discoveries and contributing to this thread for posterity. The value of the thread is diminished significantly when readers have to scroll through wasteful spam posts to find interesting content.
A few of my adds over the last several months. Biggio, Walker and Ryan were purchases. Ryan blue print line and Walker yellow streak go along with the NNOF sheet. Perez, Assenmacher and Thomas came out of packs (way more fun this way). Lots of leg work goes into digging up the singles. I open a lot of packs, boxes and cases as well.
So I just discovered this whole blackless theory and find it fascinating. I decided to print up the numbers, a short description and a picture of the layout so i could go look for them in my old boxes and THIS happened when I hit print. No lie. that, my friends, is the universe. https://imgur.com/Qtjmstt
Okay, so I looked through my boxes and none of them have missing black, however, i did find consistent card damage on a few cards that I believe line up on the swash plate. Looks like a roller error or something dug into them. I don't know if that helps with any questions or if it may be evidence that helps reconstruct anything, so i figured I would just throw it out there as I found it odd that they lined up with the print sheet.
This one just popped up on Net54, it was on the right edge on the 6th row of the B* sheet, I would think Brantley above him and Cochrane to his left were also affected to some degree.
@1963ellsworth22and10 said:
This one just popped up on Net54, it was on the right edge on the 6th row of the B* sheet, I would think Brantley above him and Cochrane to his left were also affected to some degree.
Very cool error! I've never seen one that resulted in the team name being completely blank. It definitely appears as though the Brantley should be affected.
That's an interesting location, with regards to where they are on the uncut sheet, as I have a Steinbech and Roger Clemens from the red sheet with blackless areas in nearly the exact same position on the uncut sheet, though the shape of the blackless area is different. Both cards are in the bottom right corner of the uncut sheet as yours is.
@secretstash said:
Is this just a "print dot" of some sort?
I found these in several different vending boxes, but then got side tracked from digging further into the cases.
I have a card with a similar error in the upper left hand corner. Blue border as well. My blue cards seemed to have grown legs and I can't find them. Hopefully I didn't pack them away accidentally. If I can find it I'll post a pic.
Just an update on my Blackless cards. I'm getting them graded through Beckett. I know I should choose PSA but Beckett has never graded a specimen of several of my cards. Being the first and only one to have some of the cards feels cool to me and my cards will hopefully be the reference photo on the site.
Also, 2 auction houses are interested in some of these cards for their fall offering. Chances are I'll be going through one of them. If you have any you want to sell DM me and maybe we can coordinate. Right now I'm only going to be offering up a Morris and maybe a McGriff. I'm leaning towards just the Morris in the fall and then maybe the McGriff in the spring. Has anyone had any experience selling through Lelands or For the Love of the Game?
I still have these cards. I still have the vending case they came from that I need to search. Many years ago I removed superstars if I recall correctly, but I've definitely never searched for blackless, partial blackless, or more of these print defects.
Is there any value in these and should I continue searching? You mentioned that you had a run of these in blue border as well so I wondered if those ever panned out to anything?
Hey everyone! I’m obviously new here. I was recently given a bunch of random Tupperware tubs with a bunch of old baseball cards and happened to come across the pics I’ve attached. My questions are two fold. I’ve seen and heard a lot about the Frank Thomas cards. I’m looking for some advice of what to do with them. Grade? Sell on eBay? Try to sell at a shop. The next question I have is about the Ozzie cards. The two on top look very different than the two identical ones on the bottom. Just curious if you had seen that before and if it fits into the main theme of this thread.
@cardshark0131 said:
How much for 1.
W
with Ozzie and all the others?
Once again you are clogging this invaluable thread with trash like you did three years ago trying to sell a fake NNOF here. Seriously. Take it to DMs and edit your post to clear out all the pointless images. This is so stupid.
You will see where "cardshark" was clearly phishing for vulnerable members to sell a fake NNOF to on this thread, with very blurry pictures (classic tactic when selling fraudulent goods). I would highly recommend grading and then selling your cards on eBay rather than getting involved in any private dealings with this person. We have receipts on them.
@West22 lol I was literally sending you a PM to ask almost exactly everything you mentioned in your post. Thanks for the heads up.
You have any opinion on the Ozzie cards? My thoughts are leaning to just run of the mill printing issues as opposed to the “black-less” specific errors - but most here have a way better eye for that stuff that I do so far.
Glad you read my post. Anytime someone tries to take a deal private immediately you can be quite sure you are not getting fair market value on your cards. Also don't be fooled by the many clowns listing the Frank Thomas partial blackless error for many thousands of dollars BIN on ebay. The true selling value of these has been between $200 and $2000 historically, depending on grade, condition and market timing. Right now some clown has a ton of them listed at absurd prices so they don't look as rare as they once did.
Ozzie cards are fairly run of the mill differences in either the printing plates or the ink levels of the presses that day. I will say there are far more of these types of errors in the printing runs that contain the NNOF and related errors but still no premium attached to the Ozzie Smith cards.
Ozzie cards are fairly run of the mill differences in either the printing plates or the ink levels of the presses that day. I will say there are far more of these types of errors in the printing runs that contain the NNOF and related errors but still no premium attached to the Ozzie Smith cards.
Just an FYI: All of the All-Stars players have distinct background variations. These printing variances affect ONLY the black ink of the background and not the remainder of the card. A very unusual thing and it seems like Topps wasn't sure just how dark they wanted the area to be. I've noticed that the very light background cards seem to be in (slightly) shorter supply than the mid-dark versions.
@cardshark0131 said:
How much for 1.
W
with Ozzie and all the others?
Once again you are clogging this invaluable thread with trash like you did three years ago trying to sell a fake NNOF here. Seriously. Take it to DMs and edit your post to clear out all the pointless images. This is so stupid.
You will see where "cardshark" tried to sell a clearly fake NNOF on this thread, with very blurry pictures (classic tactic when selling fraudulent goods). I would highly recommend grading and then selling your cards on eBay rather than getting involved in any private dealings with this person. We have receipts on them.
To any mod reading this, I won't be responding to the above poster any longer. My only concern and reason for posting originally was to protect a fellow member from a fraudulent dealing.
So PLEASE, I beg you, don't lock this great thread down.
I am happy to have any of my and his last few posts edited or (preferably) deleted at your discretion. This thread is a valuable trove of information so I ask that you please don't shut it down but rather deal with any offending individual members or posts separately.
@West22 said:
To any mod reading this, I won't be responding to the above poster any longer. My only concern and reason for posting originally was to protect a fellow member from a fraudulent dealing.
So PLEASE, I beg you, don't lock this great thread down.
I am happy to have any of my and his last few posts edited or (preferably) deleted at your discretion. This thread is a valuable trove of information so I ask that you please don't shut it down but rather deal with any offending individual members or posts separately.
Running to the principal.
Remember bud, you called me out.
Back up your claims. Don't worry, im not returning. If the individuals here are like you, 🙄, especially last year. ID PREFERABLY, want your bull crap contained to some other lib tards message board.
Remember you cannot create a narrative with a single picture.
So go back to ripping boxes with moms allowance. And leave me alone. All I wanted to do was make a buy and the self righteous keyboard warrior empties his crap filled mind with lies. Then Asks to tap out?? BRAVO
So funny story. I went to a local card shop after work today, just to ask if they knew anything about the Frank Thomas card and if they had any interest. Both guys (probably my age, mid 30’s) had no idea it even existed or what it was.
So funny story. I went to a local card shop after work today, just to ask if they knew anything about the Frank Thomas card and if they had any interest. Both guys (probably my age, mid 30’s) had no idea it even existed or what it was.
I find this to be a very typical exchange. I had one for sale on eBay for awhile a few years ago. I got about 1-2 messages a month asking to explain "what the errors is" even though I had a blown up picture of the nameplate and a detailed description of the error in the listing. The other messages varied between those telling me it was worthless and those that accused me of scamming, "making up the error", etc. They wouldn't back down even after I sent them pictures of PSA recognized graded examples. To be quite honest, there's a significant number of dudes who are in this hobby who are down bad when it comes to brain cells.
A lot has changed in 15 years. Many have moved on from "message board" format entirely. Not sure what Ross is up to these days. But always to be remembered as the poster that launched a thousand ships.
Always looking for 1993-1999 Baseball Finest Refractors and1994 Football Finest Refractors. saucywombat@hotmail.com
He is still active in the Facebook group “1990 Topps Partial Blackless”. As is Joe (Rookiewax).
It’s a small group by sports card collecting standards, but we make up for it in enthusiasm. It’s really saying something that the original actors of this thread are still active 15 years later!
Hi all, as others have mentioned, still actively collecting and still hoping to one day complete the blackless run. When I was last really active on the boards, I was a high school physics teacher and used my summers to really dig into the hobby. In 2018, decided to take a leap of faith and enroll in a full-time business school program for a chance to change industries. Between 16 hour days in b-school, to starting a new career, time to contribute to the hobby just vanished. While I'm still passionate about collecting, I don't get to share much these days. I hope everyone is well and actively chasing their next whale.
@BunchOBull said:
Hi all, as others have mentioned, still actively collecting and still hoping to one day complete the blackless run. When I was last really active on the boards, I was a high school physics teacher and used my summers to really dig into the hobby. In 2018, decided to take a leap of faith and enroll in a full-time business school program for a chance to change industries. Between 16 hour days in b-school, to starting a new career, time to contribute to the hobby just vanished. While I'm still passionate about collecting, I don't get to share much these days. I hope everyone is well and actively chasing their next whale.
thanks for the update! I always wonder what happened to those folks who were so integral to our board and important threads like this. I wish you well on your journey! I hope if you get a few minutes of down time on occasion you will stop in and say hi.
I agree that this is the greatest thread of all time. I was blown away when it was posted. To have a board member solve this mystery and de-bunk that Topps did it on purpose to create a hobby buzz - just wow!
Thoughts on future investment/value of the nnof in a psa 8? Specially I have dozens of early 80’s wax boxes I might move to acquire this psa 8. Good move or no?
@VintagemanEd said:
Thoughts on future investment/value of the nnof in a psa 8? Specially I have dozens of early 80’s wax boxes I might move to acquire this psa 8. Good move or no?
I think all grades of the NNOF are good investments. This is one of a small handful of relatively rare and iconic cards from the junk wax era The pops on this (and a handful of other 80s cards) is low even in comparison to many Topps cards from the 1950s. It is hard to believe the NNOF card was printed 34 years ago. As a point of reference, when I was a kid collecting back in 1986, cards from 1952 were this same 34 years old. If only the 10 year old me had the foresight or means back in the mid 80s to buy those early 1950s cards. We know there was a huge inflow of collectors like me who were kids in the 80s so my guess is that the future value trajectory looks good. Of course this is only my guess and how long this will take to play out I have no clue.
A year and a half of no posts! Well it's high time for an update to this great thread. I hit a few milestones this year working on the 1990 NNOF and Partial Blackless set (journey? / quest? / obsession?). I thought about starting a single thread since this post will no doubt be quite lengthy but it felt like this post belongs here, as my story around these cards started with the discovery of this thread in 2012, and spanned 13 years.
A bit of background is I began collecting one summer in 1990 when my mom bought me a pack of cards on our way to attending an air show in Maine. Of course, the pack was 1990 Topps. Even though I was only 5 years old, I distinctly remember opening them up while sitting on the grass in the sun. I remember the colorful borders, getting a Wade Boggs and a George Bell, and still have those two cards. They are likely the most beat up cards in my collection as the soft card stock really took a beating from being handled by a child's hands all those years.
Unfortunately, Alfredo Griffin was rudely caricatured (a farmer? pirate? Freddy Kruger?) at one point in the ensuing years.
For 5 or 6 years I would regularly receive packs on birthdays, Christmas, after baseball games and on trips to the grocery store when my mom had a little extra cash. I would say baseball cards were my sole focus until I discovered Magic the Gathering and Star Wars CCG, and then as I started doing teenage things I lost my interest in collecting altogether. I never had significant money tied up in any big cards and being in rural Maine, there weren't a lot of opportunities to get exposed to larger segments of the hobby pre-internet boom. It wasn't until after college in '08/'09 that I got back on the internet and started checking out the cards from my childhood. If you had a history of my eBay searches, the first entry would be "Frank Thomas NNOF" (followed by Will Clark RC ). Like most of you here, the NNOF had always fascinated me since seeing it in Beckett with a $1500 listed value, next to a bunch of cards priced at $0.50
In those days, months after the 2008 financial collapse and in the midst of a banking crisis, a NNOF would set you back $500 or so, and that was pretty well out of the question for a guy paying off college debt and saving for a house. I bought and sold a few cheaper Mantles at that time but cards pretty much dropped off my radar for a few years until one night in late 2012 I googled the NNOF again, and discovered this thread. I read it from start to finish that night. I shared it with a few friends, but as the blackless cards were not generally available for sale, and a NNOF was again out of the budget, I didn't do much with the information except join this forum and start breaking a few boxes now and then when I had the money. Back then one could crack boxes of '90 Topps for about $26 apiece shipped, and while you rarely got much of value, it was a fun break. Although at times I dabbled in unopened and vintage, I always eventually sold off what I bought. Around November of every year, like Canadian Geese flying south for the winter, I'd inevitably return to pursuing what most accurately would be described as an obsession around these blackless errors.
Around the time I was buying and opening a lot of boxes, I started researching both the cause of the error and the packaging and locations most likely to have them. I even created a heat map of all known NNOF pulls across the country.
While this methodology did lead to pulling at least 6 partial blackless Frank Thomas errors (whose pop count I believe well surpassed the NNOF at time of printing), and several minor related errors, I did not manage to find a single NNOF or the other 12 affected cards recognized by PSA. Through opening hundreds of boxes and spending thousands (and even purchased bulk lots of '90 Topps singles on sportlots like you all were doing in '09), over time I realized that even with all the hours of research, the sheer magnitude of the Topps print run in 1990 was working against me (guessing +/- 10 million of each card produced, Topps spokesman Timm Boyle claimed 6.8 mil/card of 1991 when touting sending Desert Shield to the troops, and they usually publicly understated production numbers). I was swinging at windmills.
Sheer force of will and reading every scrap of NNOF research available on the internet was not going to transport a NNOF into a pack for me. My other plan running concurrently with the unopened pack buying was going through and finding every person in the world I could find who had ever pulled a NNOF, and pestering them to either go through their collections looking for errors, or outright buying their cards and finding them myself. I was really scrounging here, but managed to get my first break in late 2017 buying a binder from a guy in Brunswick GA that had a John Hart (later traded to Brian Gerrans for a Russell) and a Jim Acker. This was the first breakthrough in my journey but also my first major mistake, as I passed on the opportunity to buy a mint, ungraded NNOF for $3500 (felt like too much at the time).
Fast forward over two years to 2020. I hadn't found anything and no new errors had come to market since 2017. But the blackless market got a good shot in the arm during Covid. As most of you know and documented here, Mark Dupray found a dozen of the errors from Rak Paks he bought in Japan. His findings, and the subsequent sale of a McGriff and Morris error through Goldin auctions in late 2020 brought some press and additional attention to the lesser errors of the blackless set. Then in summer 2021 a customer pulled a NNOF and several blackless errors from a single wax box purchased from Lou Brown of Legends Sports and Games (formerly Baseball Card City) in Grand Rapids Michigan. They consigned the cards to Lou who had them at Nationals that summer but they didn't sell. In January of 2022 I was able to purchase from that lot the Magrane, Biggio, Fisk and Tapani through Lou, and also worked out a deal for the original box and all the other cards in the box besides the NNOF. Since the wax box contained only errors and no corrected versions of the cards, it was very fun to dig into nearly the entire press run from the error sheet and collect all the other errors unique to the NNOF press run (blue print line/plate scratch on Nolan Ryan and other numerous cards, yellow blotchy smears on Larry Walker, John Kruk and Zane Smith).
Things kind of accelerated from there. Two weeks after that buy, I met a major contributor to this thread, Chris through eBay. Many of you will remember him posting a ton of first hand printing knowledge under username @slantycouch during the early exciting moments of this thread when new finds were coming to light on a daily basis. We connected because he was selling his Julio Franco blackless that he acquired back in 2009 via eBay. I believe that specific Franco card was the first non-NNOF blackless error to be sold on eBay (went for about $55 back then). I bought the Franco from Chris in late January '22.
The next part of the story hasn't been documented on this thread yet, but many of you know that TV producer Brandon Verzal amazingly pulled a NNOF from a series of packs purchased from a vending machine at the Lincoln Ice Box in 2019.
He later discovered several more of the errors from that pack run during a segment filmed with Mark Dupray and Matt Strahm. Long story short, I bought Verzal's Hart, but committed another blunder by passing up on the opportunity to purchase a pack fresh NNOF with rock solid provenance at a very fair price (BGS 8.5 at around 9K).
I was now narrowing in on the goal, and thanks to the generous help of Brian Gerrans and Joe (@Ltlbvr and @rookiewax respectively) acquired Brian's extra Morris, a Lawton, Jackson and McGriff. Joe also sold me an unopened PSA graded pack from his NNOF box.
All that remained was the NNOF, the big cahuna burger. Although prices had taken a major dip since 2021, the NNOF barely budged, and then accelerated to the upside from mid-'24 to 2025 through sales tracked on eBay and at major auction houses. It was quite literally running away from me again, and I would have to spend more than I had on the other 12 errors combined to get one. Incredibly, one popped up last weekend, in Maine on Facebook marketplace. It had a PSA flip that dated it in the 1992-'99 period. While I was skeptical (Facebook marketplace being full of scams these days, especially with regards to cards), I spoke to the seller on the phone the following Monday and the story immediately checked out. The NNOF was one of two pulled from two 106 card Jumbo Paks sold by Galen Wilde of Shiretown Coins in Houlton ME. According to the seller, Galen (a top seller of Topps products for his region for many years) had a case of jumbos in "early". I don't know if it was before or after Christmas of '89 (I am still in touch with the seller, he says his friend remembers and will get back to me). The seller sold the less nice NNOF a few years later and then got the better of the two graded. I was very excited to acquire a single owner NNOF with provenance and some unique history to this area, being one of only 3 I have heard of being pulled in Maine.
I would be remiss here if I did not give a huge shoutout to @craig44, who not only looked the card over for me, but also was a very helpful sounding board convincing me to make the deal. I really appreciate it! Also, Joe Schembri was kind enough to give a thumbs up to the card as well via Facebook.
The big day was Thursday, and although I spent a fair amount of time admiring the card in person, it now has to live in a safe deposit box. And, while I still have some grading to get together to make the error run look a little more cohesive (planning on putting them all in PSA flips), I figured I'd get some good pics before I put it away:
Above, the error run is in center, the partial blackless Thomas is bottom left, the NNOF retail box from Lou Brown's client is top right, and one of Joe's PSA packs is next to it.
On a personal note, my mom passed away in March of this year, and I have her to thank for starting me on this journey back in 1990. She made every Christmas and birthday special by hunting down whatever cards my brother and I were interested in at the time.
A big thank you goes out to all the contributors to this thread who helped and are still helping put all the pieces of this cool mystery together. I enjoy the research, collaborative effort, and community just as much as chasing the error cards themselves. It has been a very fun challenge, and while my original goal was to pull a NNOF from a pack (as that is far more thrilling than paying cash for a card), this effort was rewarding in itself because of all the people I have met along the way. I am confident that there are still more chapters to come in the NNOF journey on this thread, and to all the contributors who are still around reading this, Merry Christmas and a happy new year. Look forward to more fun interactions in this great community. If you are on the network, be sure to join our Facebook page!
"1990 Topps Partial Blackless": https://www.facebook.com/groups/646515766210105
Feels good to be done. In the words of Sir Edmund Hillary, "Well George, we knocked the bastard off".
Amazing accomplishment and great to hear all of the friends you made along the way who helped you out. I need to get a NNOF one of these days! This is one of the greatest ever threads IMO. Very happy whenever it pops up.
John
Conundrum - Loving my unopened baseball card collection....but really like ripping too
Brendon, i am so glad you posted this. i was chomping at the bit to add to this great thread, but this was your story to tell and you did a great job of it!!!
i am also so happy this deal worked out. I feared when we were messaging that the seller may back out before you made the deal. I was speaking with a friend at the December Elks club show and he was interested in the card and had inquired about making a deal for it, but would have needed to do a trade/cash deal. I was nervous that the seller was being offered other deals as well and may sell it out from under you. I was very pleased when you let me know it was in hand.
It is truly a great example of the NNOF and with provenance that the card was pulled right here in the great state of Maine!
Comments
Hello! I found this thread and decided to go dig out my old collection from when I was a kid and lo and behold, a nnof frank thomas along with 4 of the “blackless” cards discussed! I’m honestly just interested in selling these to someone that will appreciate them, so message me and Lmk how/who to reach if you are interested!
One of my favs
This, I gots to see.
Just post your cards with time stamps. I have gots to see! I am always a buyer. Deep pockets, etc.
@Appletrader1 said:
Very cool that you found these, however we like to see pics in this thread. There are a lot of scammers out there and one of the more suspicious lines is the "just want to sell these to someone that appreciates them" leading many to rush into a bad decision in hopes of getting a deal. Pics or it didn't happen.
If you truly have these cards and are interested in selling you will find no shortage of buyers on this thread, the Facebook group or Ebay. Please provide pics to prove you are not scamming. A lot of us are still working behind the scenes, making discoveries and contributing to this thread for posterity. The value of the thread is diminished significantly when readers have to scroll through wasteful spam posts to find interesting content.
A few of my adds over the last several months. Biggio, Walker and Ryan were purchases. Ryan blue print line and Walker yellow streak go along with the NNOF sheet. Perez, Assenmacher and Thomas came out of packs (way more fun this way). Lots of leg work goes into digging up the singles. I open a lot of packs, boxes and cases as well.
So I just discovered this whole blackless theory and find it fascinating. I decided to print up the numbers, a short description and a picture of the layout so i could go look for them in my old boxes and THIS happened when I hit print. No lie. that, my friends, is the universe.
https://imgur.com/Qtjmstt
Okay, so I looked through my boxes and none of them have missing black, however, i did find consistent card damage on a few cards that I believe line up on the swash plate. Looks like a roller error or something dug into them. I don't know if that helps with any questions or if it may be evidence that helps reconstruct anything, so i figured I would just throw it out there as I found it odd that they lined up with the print sheet.
https://imgur.com/gallery/OGwcgpU
This one just popped up on Net54, it was on the right edge on the 6th row of the B* sheet, I would think Brantley above him and Cochrane to his left were also affected to some degree.
Very cool error! I've never seen one that resulted in the team name being completely blank. It definitely appears as though the Brantley should be affected.
That's an interesting location, with regards to where they are on the uncut sheet, as I have a Steinbech and Roger Clemens from the red sheet with blackless areas in nearly the exact same position on the uncut sheet, though the shape of the blackless area is different. Both cards are in the bottom right corner of the uncut sheet as yours is.
I still have these cards. I still have the vending case they came from that I need to search. Many years ago I removed superstars if I recall correctly, but I've definitely never searched for blackless, partial blackless, or more of these print defects.
Is there any value in these and should I continue searching? You mentioned that you had a run of these in blue border as well so I wondered if those ever panned out to anything?
Thanks.
Any chance these Ebay auctions are legit? Most of the cards in the streak are listed for auction.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284868337485?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649
saucywombat@hotmail.com
Any chance PSA designates this 1990 topps Marcus Lawton as partial blackless?
Hey everyone! I’m obviously new here. I was recently given a bunch of random Tupperware tubs with a bunch of old baseball cards and happened to come across the pics I’ve attached. My questions are two fold. I’ve seen and heard a lot about the Frank Thomas cards. I’m looking for some advice of what to do with them. Grade? Sell on eBay? Try to sell at a shop. The next question I have is about the Ozzie cards. The two on top look very different than the two identical ones on the bottom. Just curious if you had seen that before and if it fits into the main theme of this thread.
Thanks!
Are you looking to sell one og the Thomas's? Straight up?
Yes, I’d like to.
How much for 1.
Would you trade the 84 opeechee
with Ozzie and all the others?
Once again you are clogging this invaluable thread with trash like you did three years ago trying to sell a fake NNOF here. Seriously. Take it to DMs and edit your post to clear out all the pointless images. This is so stupid.
Also, @C1n3rgy , you should know, if you go back to this post:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12525417/#Comment_12525417
And then continued here:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/12728547/#Comment_12728547
You will see where "cardshark" was clearly phishing for vulnerable members to sell a fake NNOF to on this thread, with very blurry pictures (classic tactic when selling fraudulent goods). I would highly recommend grading and then selling your cards on eBay rather than getting involved in any private dealings with this person. We have receipts on them.
@cardshark0131 Fake NNOF:
@West22 lol I was literally sending you a PM to ask almost exactly everything you mentioned in your post. Thanks for the heads up.
You have any opinion on the Ozzie cards? My thoughts are leaning to just run of the mill printing issues as opposed to the “black-less” specific errors - but most here have a way better eye for that stuff that I do so far.
Glad you read my post. Anytime someone tries to take a deal private immediately you can be quite sure you are not getting fair market value on your cards. Also don't be fooled by the many clowns listing the Frank Thomas partial blackless error for many thousands of dollars BIN on ebay. The true selling value of these has been between $200 and $2000 historically, depending on grade, condition and market timing. Right now some clown has a ton of them listed at absurd prices so they don't look as rare as they once did.
Ozzie cards are fairly run of the mill differences in either the printing plates or the ink levels of the presses that day. I will say there are far more of these types of errors in the printing runs that contain the NNOF and related errors but still no premium attached to the Ozzie Smith cards.
@West22 appreciate the info. Glad I found this thread.
Just an FYI: All of the All-Stars players have distinct background variations. These printing variances affect ONLY the black ink of the background and not the remainder of the card. A very unusual thing and it seems like Topps wasn't sure just how dark they wanted the area to be. I've noticed that the very light background cards seem to be in (slightly) shorter supply than the mid-dark versions.
Yeah, this was really obvious to me at the time but I recall a lot of 'benefit of the doubt' going on at the time but I may be misremembering.
To any mod reading this, I won't be responding to the above poster any longer. My only concern and reason for posting originally was to protect a fellow member from a fraudulent dealing.
So PLEASE, I beg you, don't lock this great thread down.
I am happy to have any of my and his last few posts edited or (preferably) deleted at your discretion. This thread is a valuable trove of information so I ask that you please don't shut it down but rather deal with any offending individual members or posts separately.
Running to the principal.
Remember bud, you called me out.
Back up your claims. Don't worry, im not returning. If the individuals here are like you, 🙄, especially last year. ID PREFERABLY, want your bull crap contained to some other lib tards message board.
Remember you cannot create a narrative with a single picture.
So go back to ripping boxes with moms allowance. And leave me alone. All I wanted to do was make a buy and the self righteous keyboard warrior empties his crap filled mind with lies. Then Asks to tap out?? BRAVO
So funny story. I went to a local card shop after work today, just to ask if they knew anything about the Frank Thomas card and if they had any interest. Both guys (probably my age, mid 30’s) had no idea it even existed or what it was.
@C1n3rgy said:
I find this to be a very typical exchange. I had one for sale on eBay for awhile a few years ago. I got about 1-2 messages a month asking to explain "what the errors is" even though I had a blown up picture of the nameplate and a detailed description of the error in the listing. The other messages varied between those telling me it was worthless and those that accused me of scamming, "making up the error", etc. They wouldn't back down even after I sent them pictures of PSA recognized graded examples. To be quite honest, there's a significant number of dudes who are in this hobby who are down bad when it comes to brain cells.
Here’s my PSA graded group. Most of these came from early participants in this thread. Love that huge white swath!
15th Anniversary bump for this thread (15!!)
I restored the earlier pictures from 2009 on that I had posted in this thread that had otherwise been lost when photobucket went belly up.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
In my opinion, this is the single greatest thread of all time on CU. It reignited my childhood desire for the NNOF.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
I wonder what happened to BunchOBull? he was a regular on here for many years. looks like he hasnt been active for almost 3 years.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
A lot has changed in 15 years. Many have moved on from "message board" format entirely. Not sure what Ross is up to these days. But always to be remembered as the poster that launched a thousand ships.
saucywombat@hotmail.com
Ross is still an active member of the hobby and a Frank Thomas collector. I will let him know y'all were asking.
that would be great. tell him to stop on by and say hi!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
He is still active in the Facebook group “1990 Topps Partial Blackless”. As is Joe (Rookiewax).
It’s a small group by sports card collecting standards, but we make up for it in enthusiasm. It’s really saying something that the original actors of this thread are still active 15 years later!
Hi all, as others have mentioned, still actively collecting and still hoping to one day complete the blackless run. When I was last really active on the boards, I was a high school physics teacher and used my summers to really dig into the hobby. In 2018, decided to take a leap of faith and enroll in a full-time business school program for a chance to change industries. Between 16 hour days in b-school, to starting a new career, time to contribute to the hobby just vanished. While I'm still passionate about collecting, I don't get to share much these days. I hope everyone is well and actively chasing their next whale.
thanks for the update! I always wonder what happened to those folks who were so integral to our board and important threads like this. I wish you well on your journey! I hope if you get a few minutes of down time on occasion you will stop in and say hi.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
This is one of the best message board threads ever. Thank you.
Partial Blackless 1990 Topps Baseball cards are Satanic. Yet people still pursue them. hmm.
I opened a 1990 Topps Price Club Box because of the motivation in the thread. All corrected.
Hey all. Just wanted to pop my head up to say this is one of the best hobby discussions I've ever witnessed. Incredible work, everyone.
I agree that this is the greatest thread of all time. I was blown away when it was posted. To have a board member solve this mystery and de-bunk that Topps did it on purpose to create a hobby buzz - just wow!
Thoughts on future investment/value of the nnof in a psa 8? Specially I have dozens of early 80’s wax boxes I might move to acquire this psa 8. Good move or no?
I think all grades of the NNOF are good investments. This is one of a small handful of relatively rare and iconic cards from the junk wax era The pops on this (and a handful of other 80s cards) is low even in comparison to many Topps cards from the 1950s. It is hard to believe the NNOF card was printed 34 years ago. As a point of reference, when I was a kid collecting back in 1986, cards from 1952 were this same 34 years old. If only the 10 year old me had the foresight or means back in the mid 80s to buy those early 1950s cards. We know there was a huge inflow of collectors like me who were kids in the 80s so my guess is that the future value trajectory looks good. Of course this is only my guess and how long this will take to play out I have no clue.
A year and a half of no posts! Well it's high time for an update to this great thread. I hit a few milestones this year working on the 1990 NNOF and Partial Blackless set (journey? / quest? / obsession?). I thought about starting a single thread since this post will no doubt be quite lengthy but it felt like this post belongs here, as my story around these cards started with the discovery of this thread in 2012, and spanned 13 years.
A bit of background is I began collecting one summer in 1990 when my mom bought me a pack of cards on our way to attending an air show in Maine. Of course, the pack was 1990 Topps. Even though I was only 5 years old, I distinctly remember opening them up while sitting on the grass in the sun. I remember the colorful borders, getting a Wade Boggs and a George Bell, and still have those two cards. They are likely the most beat up cards in my collection as the soft card stock really took a beating from being handled by a child's hands all those years.
Unfortunately, Alfredo Griffin was rudely caricatured (a farmer? pirate? Freddy Kruger?) at one point in the ensuing years.
For 5 or 6 years I would regularly receive packs on birthdays, Christmas, after baseball games and on trips to the grocery store when my mom had a little extra cash. I would say baseball cards were my sole focus until I discovered Magic the Gathering and Star Wars CCG, and then as I started doing teenage things I lost my interest in collecting altogether. I never had significant money tied up in any big cards and being in rural Maine, there weren't a lot of opportunities to get exposed to larger segments of the hobby pre-internet boom. It wasn't until after college in '08/'09 that I got back on the internet and started checking out the cards from my childhood. If you had a history of my eBay searches, the first entry would be "Frank Thomas NNOF" (followed by Will Clark RC
). Like most of you here, the NNOF had always fascinated me since seeing it in Beckett with a $1500 listed value, next to a bunch of cards priced at $0.50
In those days, months after the 2008 financial collapse and in the midst of a banking crisis, a NNOF would set you back $500 or so, and that was pretty well out of the question for a guy paying off college debt and saving for a house. I bought and sold a few cheaper Mantles at that time but cards pretty much dropped off my radar for a few years until one night in late 2012 I googled the NNOF again, and discovered this thread. I read it from start to finish that night. I shared it with a few friends, but as the blackless cards were not generally available for sale, and a NNOF was again out of the budget, I didn't do much with the information except join this forum and start breaking a few boxes now and then when I had the money. Back then one could crack boxes of '90 Topps for about $26 apiece shipped, and while you rarely got much of value, it was a fun break. Although at times I dabbled in unopened and vintage, I always eventually sold off what I bought. Around November of every year, like Canadian Geese flying south for the winter, I'd inevitably return to pursuing what most accurately would be described as an obsession around these blackless errors.
Around the time I was buying and opening a lot of boxes, I started researching both the cause of the error and the packaging and locations most likely to have them. I even created a heat map of all known NNOF pulls across the country.
While this methodology did lead to pulling at least 6 partial blackless Frank Thomas errors (whose pop count I believe well surpassed the NNOF at time of printing), and several minor related errors, I did not manage to find a single NNOF or the other 12 affected cards recognized by PSA. Through opening hundreds of boxes and spending thousands (and even purchased bulk lots of '90 Topps singles on sportlots like you all were doing in '09), over time I realized that even with all the hours of research, the sheer magnitude of the Topps print run in 1990 was working against me (guessing +/- 10 million of each card produced, Topps spokesman Timm Boyle claimed 6.8 mil/card of 1991 when touting sending Desert Shield to the troops, and they usually publicly understated production numbers). I was swinging at windmills.
Sheer force of will and reading every scrap of NNOF research available on the internet was not going to transport a NNOF into a pack for me. My other plan running concurrently with the unopened pack buying was going through and finding every person in the world I could find who had ever pulled a NNOF, and pestering them to either go through their collections looking for errors, or outright buying their cards and finding them myself. I was really scrounging here, but managed to get my first break in late 2017 buying a binder from a guy in Brunswick GA that had a John Hart (later traded to Brian Gerrans for a Russell) and a Jim Acker. This was the first breakthrough in my journey but also my first major mistake, as I passed on the opportunity to buy a mint, ungraded NNOF for $3500 (felt like too much at the time).
Fast forward over two years to 2020. I hadn't found anything and no new errors had come to market since 2017. But the blackless market got a good shot in the arm during Covid. As most of you know and documented here, Mark Dupray found a dozen of the errors from Rak Paks he bought in Japan. His findings, and the subsequent sale of a McGriff and Morris error through Goldin auctions in late 2020 brought some press and additional attention to the lesser errors of the blackless set. Then in summer 2021 a customer pulled a NNOF and several blackless errors from a single wax box purchased from Lou Brown of Legends Sports and Games (formerly Baseball Card City) in Grand Rapids Michigan. They consigned the cards to Lou who had them at Nationals that summer but they didn't sell. In January of 2022 I was able to purchase from that lot the Magrane, Biggio, Fisk and Tapani through Lou, and also worked out a deal for the original box and all the other cards in the box besides the NNOF. Since the wax box contained only errors and no corrected versions of the cards, it was very fun to dig into nearly the entire press run from the error sheet and collect all the other errors unique to the NNOF press run (blue print line/plate scratch on Nolan Ryan and other numerous cards, yellow blotchy smears on Larry Walker, John Kruk and Zane Smith).
Things kind of accelerated from there. Two weeks after that buy, I met a major contributor to this thread, Chris through eBay. Many of you will remember him posting a ton of first hand printing knowledge under username @slantycouch during the early exciting moments of this thread when new finds were coming to light on a daily basis. We connected because he was selling his Julio Franco blackless that he acquired back in 2009 via eBay. I believe that specific Franco card was the first non-NNOF blackless error to be sold on eBay (went for about $55 back then). I bought the Franco from Chris in late January '22.
The next part of the story hasn't been documented on this thread yet, but many of you know that TV producer Brandon Verzal amazingly pulled a NNOF from a series of packs purchased from a vending machine at the Lincoln Ice Box in 2019.
https://x.com/BVerzal/status/1096211049349550080
He later discovered several more of the errors from that pack run during a segment filmed with Mark Dupray and Matt Strahm. Long story short, I bought Verzal's Hart, but committed another blunder by passing up on the opportunity to purchase a pack fresh NNOF with rock solid provenance at a very fair price (BGS 8.5 at around 9K).
I was now narrowing in on the goal, and thanks to the generous help of Brian Gerrans and Joe (@Ltlbvr and @rookiewax respectively) acquired Brian's extra Morris, a Lawton, Jackson and McGriff. Joe also sold me an unopened PSA graded pack from his NNOF box.
All that remained was the NNOF, the big cahuna burger. Although prices had taken a major dip since 2021, the NNOF barely budged, and then accelerated to the upside from mid-'24 to 2025 through sales tracked on eBay and at major auction houses. It was quite literally running away from me again, and I would have to spend more than I had on the other 12 errors combined to get one. Incredibly, one popped up last weekend, in Maine on Facebook marketplace. It had a PSA flip that dated it in the 1992-'99 period. While I was skeptical (Facebook marketplace being full of scams these days, especially with regards to cards), I spoke to the seller on the phone the following Monday and the story immediately checked out. The NNOF was one of two pulled from two 106 card Jumbo Paks sold by Galen Wilde of Shiretown Coins in Houlton ME. According to the seller, Galen (a top seller of Topps products for his region for many years) had a case of jumbos in "early". I don't know if it was before or after Christmas of '89 (I am still in touch with the seller, he says his friend remembers and will get back to me). The seller sold the less nice NNOF a few years later and then got the better of the two graded. I was very excited to acquire a single owner NNOF with provenance and some unique history to this area, being one of only 3 I have heard of being pulled in Maine.
I would be remiss here if I did not give a huge shoutout to @craig44, who not only looked the card over for me, but also was a very helpful sounding board convincing me to make the deal. I really appreciate it! Also, Joe Schembri was kind enough to give a thumbs up to the card as well via Facebook.
The big day was Thursday, and although I spent a fair amount of time admiring the card in person, it now has to live in a safe deposit box. And, while I still have some grading to get together to make the error run look a little more cohesive (planning on putting them all in PSA flips), I figured I'd get some good pics before I put it away:
Above, the error run is in center, the partial blackless Thomas is bottom left, the NNOF retail box from Lou Brown's client is top right, and one of Joe's PSA packs is next to it.
On a personal note, my mom passed away in March of this year, and I have her to thank for starting me on this journey back in 1990. She made every Christmas and birthday special by hunting down whatever cards my brother and I were interested in at the time.
A big thank you goes out to all the contributors to this thread who helped and are still helping put all the pieces of this cool mystery together. I enjoy the research, collaborative effort, and community just as much as chasing the error cards themselves. It has been a very fun challenge, and while my original goal was to pull a NNOF from a pack (as that is far more thrilling than paying cash for a card), this effort was rewarding in itself because of all the people I have met along the way. I am confident that there are still more chapters to come in the NNOF journey on this thread, and to all the contributors who are still around reading this, Merry Christmas and a happy new year. Look forward to more fun interactions in this great community. If you are on the network, be sure to join our Facebook page!
"1990 Topps Partial Blackless":
https://www.facebook.com/groups/646515766210105
Feels good to be done. In the words of Sir Edmund Hillary, "Well George, we knocked the bastard off".
Amazing accomplishment and great to hear all of the friends you made along the way who helped you out. I need to get a NNOF one of these days! This is one of the greatest ever threads IMO. Very happy whenever it pops up.
John
Brendon, i am so glad you posted this. i was chomping at the bit to add to this great thread, but this was your story to tell and you did a great job of it!!!
i am also so happy this deal worked out. I feared when we were messaging that the seller may back out before you made the deal. I was speaking with a friend at the December Elks club show and he was interested in the card and had inquired about making a deal for it, but would have needed to do a trade/cash deal. I was nervous that the seller was being offered other deals as well and may sell it out from under you. I was very pleased when you let me know it was in hand.
It is truly a great example of the NNOF and with provenance that the card was pulled right here in the great state of Maine!
long live the CU NNOF thread!!
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Edit
It's the singer not the song - Peter Townshend (1972)
Not even a minute do I buy the whole buh buh buh I'm a man-child japery - Me (2025)
care to explain? never knew of Ross to be anything but above board.
George Brett, Roger Clemens and Tommy Brady.
Delete