@JohnnyCache said:
A couple one real's that I submitted raw and just recently received back from PCGS.
Nice pair of 1R's - Still that yellow background that the TV's end up having, or this has been fixed and the coins look like that in hand? That is one of the main reasons that I am waiting to send many of my raw coins to be sent for grading. Thanks!
This very rare Mexico Carlos y Juana early series 2 Maravedis (raw) sold today in Mexico for $13,800 (not to me). Supposedly it was recently discovered in a dry lake bed. So maybe the “Indians” really did throw them into the lake!
@JohnnyCache said:
A couple one real's that I submitted raw and just recently received back from PCGS.
Nice pair of 1R's - Still that yellow background that the TV's end up having, or this has been fixed and the coins look like that in hand? That is one of the main reasons that I am waiting to send many of my raw coins to be sent for grading. Thanks!
The 1782 does have some yellow tone, the 1787 not so much.
Here is a video to see the 1782 for yourself.
Eddie I see a little bit of green on your Chile 8 reales maybe an acetone bath would be of need. It will not harm your coin in any way. If you do this change the holder it is now in and throw the old holder away. I would use a cardboard Mylar coin flip to store the coin afterwards.
By the way truly awesome coins thanks for showing them!!!
1867 Pi PS 8 Reales. This coin quite pleasant in hand with modest toning over what appears to be decent lustre and weak strike to reverse.
Very hard to photograph with my iPhone:
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
Waiting for this 1R 1735 Mo MF that I just added... Now in hand a way better!
On the ETIND has also a small D below the D and maybe also a small E below the E on REX.
I guess it can make a VF30 or probably better when it ends up being sent for grading.
Got this AU53 2 pesos recently. I've owned two in the past, one in higher grade that was poorly struck, and a cleaned MS with a great strike. I thought this one was a good balance of a great strike and patina with a touch of wear, was very excited to get it!
An early Santo Domingo 4m. The first coins of the American hemisphere, minted in Spain for commerce in one of the very first settlements in present day Dominican Republic. Those coins were minted in 1505. This one is a bit later version of the same coin.
@SimonW I picked up one of Syd Martin's examples from the recent Stacks sale. Despite these being fairly common, I've never owned one for my collection (though I have two low-grade examples in my Mexico City inventory).
I really don't know much about these, so I hope this prompts me to learn a bit more about them.
@pruebas
I was watching that coin at Stacks, actually, but I really wanted a straight grade, so I ended up bailing. I really wanted it for the provenance also…but alas. Glad you got it! I really think it’s a nice piece, on another day it may have straight graded. I was thinking it could benefit from an olive oil soak, maybe some of that red stuff would dissolve. Cracking it though, you risk losing the pedigree.
Mine actually has more granularity than yours, at least on the obverse, it’s that red stuff that kills the straight grade. Otherwise yours has harder surfaces. I would like a nicer strike on mine.
Funny thing, I started looking at these when I saw your Mexican 2M coins! I’d really like to put together a type set of the Mexican coins from the first mint along with the Santo Domingo pieces. I too need to learn more, but from my limited research, Mexico minted the first coins in America, Santo Domingo had the first coins in America, but minted elsewhere…seems apropos to have both. I’m gonna dive into this a little more and see if I can find the very first minting from Santo Domingo. Not sure how rare they are.
@SimonW said: @pruebas
Funny thing, I started looking at these when I saw your Mexican 2M coins!
I hope I can take credit for getting you into Spanish colonial copper (what little there is of it)!
I love copper coins. These older pieces have gone through a lot of history and managed to survive. Copper is so reactive, so choice copper is quite special.
Each one of the coins below is finest graded at NGC MS65RB.
@SimonW
Of the 4 Maravedis that I have seen from Santo Domingo, the one you posted and including the one from @pruebas are the best ones, for the details.
The ones I have seen show up that have been cleaned or the details are not too good on the surfaces, with some verdigris spots or oxidations, etc.
@ELuis totally agree. My 2/4 is 1821 (the scarcer date) but only NGC AU55BN. I’ve yet to find a MS example that I like, so that remains my type coin.
Indeed.
I saw one but it was about three years ago or little more, for sale raw, better than the one in MS61 that was sold on Heritage, recently in this year btw, but when I went back to check it was sold already.
Never has seen in the wild raw the Tlaco's any in the condition of the ones you posted, and those two One Granos - Too much....
@pruebas you really do deserve the credit for planting the seed. I can usually boil my collections down to a single moment. Ed started me on pillar coinage, Eureka got me into Bolivian republic, you got me interested in early Latin copper…so forth and so on.
It’s utterly insane to me that your coins retain some form of red. Mid 1700’s coins that were SO well preserved that they still have red?! They’re crazy nice anyway, but that red bloom is what makes them. I don’t think one seen any of those types in the flesh.
@SimonW said: @ELuis@pruebas either of you two collect the big SUD coins? They seem difficult to find nice.
I am not, on one of the shows and I think I posted about it here last year, there was a guy from Mexico there with a bag of those coins maybe 50+ each was available for $100, saw some they were in great condition but did not buy one, he also had the bimetallic coin of "Don Quijote De La Mancha",he had also a lot of these, I bought one that did not kept for a long time and sold it.
Have seen the SUD Oaxaca 2R in other places, but these are in the $200+ - AU, but still you will expect to see verdigris at least a little in them.
Just got this one certified, a pretty tough one. The only one higher that I’m aware of is the coin Boosibri bought in Monte Carlo and certified as an MS62. As far as I know that coin is the only MS Peru 4 Real Pillar known. This is of lesser quality, but a really solid example of a very tough date.
@SimonW said:
Just got this one certified, a pretty tough one. The only one higher that I’m aware of is the coin Boosibri bought in Monte Carlo and certified as an MS62. As far as I know that coin is the only MS Peru 4 Real Pillar known. This is of lesser quality, but a really solid example of a very tough date.
PCGS VF25
Nice coin.
The ex-Ortiz 1765 4R is an XF or low AU from the image. Interestingly, I found it illustrated in a web search by the claimed owner who seemed to live in Peru. (Not clear on that.)
PCGS has graded a 1761 4R as an MS-62. I infer it's the ex-Patterson coin but if not, that coin looks MS too.
Ortiz and Sellshopp both owned a 1771 4R that is the best known to me. MS-64 or so?
Ortiz also owned a 1753 that could grade MS. I believe this is the Gilboy plate coin.
Ortiz also had a 1759 which looks MS or real close to it.
Gilboy plate coins for the 1757 and 1764 look awfully close if not so.
Marti Hervera auctions sold a 1772 that should be MS, except that it was struck on what looks like a defective planchet. Multiple small but very noticeable dark patches where pieces of the metal appeared to have flake off from the coin blank. It sold for about 4000 Euro.
@WCC I didn’t mean to imply that there weren’t any MS coins out there, only that I wasn’t aware of any in the certified populations. Seems like there’s a bunch of Spanish colonial collectors that don’t certify stuff. I wasn’t aware of the 1761 PCGS coin. Thanks for the info!
@SimonW said: @WCC I didn’t mean to imply that there weren’t any MS coins out there, only that I wasn’t aware of any in the certified populations. Seems like there’s a bunch of Spanish colonial collectors that don’t certify stuff. I wasn’t aware of the 1761 PCGS coin. Thanks for the info!
@TwoKopeiki said:
My only addition from the Paul Rutherford sale is below. This is the only known 1803 with assayers FM that has ever been considered genuine. I'll post a more detailed article about it after I get a chance to do some XRF testing in late October.
@TwoKopeiki I am anxiously awaiting the results of your testing and your article. This is a famous coin indeed and a real score.
Some great rarities are only known by chopped examples that came out of Asia during the big silver boom of the 1980s where bags and bags of silver coins returned from Asia, most of which went to the melting pots.
An example of another rarity from this period is the Mexico 1870-ZsYH 8R which was formerly in my collection. It is only known by one genuine piece (which I had NGC certify), and was previously in the collection of JB Parker then Michael McCormick, both complete collections of Republic 8 Rs.
@TwoKopeiki I am anxiously awaiting the results of your testing and your article. This is a famous coin indeed and a real score.
Some great rarities are only known by chopped examples that came out of Asia during the big silver boom of the 1980s where bags and bags of silver coins returned from Asia, most of which went to the melting pots.
An example of another rarity from this period is the Mexico 1870-ZsYH 8R which was formerly in my collection. It is only known by one genuine piece (which I had NGC certify), and was previously in the collection of JB Parker then Michael McCormick, both complete collections of Republic 8 Rs.
I didn't want to take a chance with shipping this coin through Canadian customs, so picking it up in person from Stacks at the USMex show in just over a week. I'm also both anxious and excited about the test.
Thanks for sharing the info about the 1870-Zs YH - I'll add it to my list of things to watch for
I was hoping to add the 1872(1782) error, but couldn't chase it after a while. A great rarity only discovered amongst the Cazador silver with a documented royal decree recalling it, to boot.
Ah well a few other countries in the hemisphere.
Here is a scarce Guyana 1976 $50 Enmore martyrs commemorative. Mintage 100 in PL Uncirculated and large and in charge silver:
Love that Milled British (1830-1960) Well, just Love coins, period.
@TwoKopeiki I am anxiously awaiting the results of your testing and your article. This is a famous coin indeed and a real score.
Some great rarities are only known by chopped examples that came out of Asia during the big silver boom of the 1980s where bags and bags of silver coins returned from Asia, most of which went to the melting pots.
An example of another rarity from this period is the Mexico 1870-ZsYH 8R which was formerly in my collection. It is only known by one genuine piece (which I had NGC certify), and was previously in the collection of JB Parker then Michael McCormick, both complete collections of Republic 8 Rs.
I didn't want to take a chance with shipping this coin through Canadian customs, so picking it up in person from Stacks at the USMex show in just over a week. I'm also both anxious and excited about the test.
Thanks for sharing the info about the 1870-Zs YH - I'll add it to my list of things to watch for
I was hoping to add the 1872(1782) error, but couldn't chase it after a while. A great rarity only discovered amongst the Cazador silver with a documented royal decree recalling it, to boot.
Sound idea. Plus, you will have access to many expert opinions there. And I believe World Numismatics has a handheld XRF scanner.
You’ll have another chance at the 1872 error since there are (supposedly) 4 known. Hopefully at a better price.
I once bid on the “1287”-Ga 8R, but let it go after bidding got too high. I still miss that coin and there aren’t many others.
Comments
Nice pair of 1R's - Still that yellow background that the TV's end up having, or this has been fixed and the coins look like that in hand? That is one of the main reasons that I am waiting to send many of my raw coins to be sent for grading. Thanks!
This very rare Mexico Carlos y Juana early series 2 Maravedis (raw) sold today in Mexico for $13,800 (not to me). Supposedly it was recently discovered in a dry lake bed. So maybe the “Indians” really did throw them into the lake!
The 1782 does have some yellow tone, the 1787 not so much.
Here is a video to see the 1782 for yourself.
Real video on YouTube
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Thank you, beautiful coin for sure!
Congrats on 1000 posts ELuis!!!
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
These are two of the most important coins in my collection of Santiago mint colonials:
Great pieces!
Latin American Collection
Eddie I see a little bit of green on your Chile 8 reales maybe an acetone bath would be of need. It will not harm your coin in any way. If you do this change the holder it is now in and throw the old holder away. I would use a cardboard Mylar coin flip to store the coin afterwards.
By the way truly awesome coins thanks for showing them!!!
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
1867 Pi PS 8 Reales. This coin quite pleasant in hand with modest toning over what appears to be decent lustre and weak strike to reverse.
Very hard to photograph with my iPhone:
Well, just Love coins, period.
From a trade...
Two years type - .800 silver - A semi-Key for these "El Resplandor" Peso series.
In hand it looks way better.
Waiting for this 1R 1735 Mo MF that I just added... Now in hand a way better!
On the ETIND has also a small D below the D and maybe also a small E below the E on REX.
I guess it can make a VF30 or probably better when it ends up being sent for grading.
Really wonderful specimen @ELuis !
Great original look, very interesting.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
ELuis one of the nicer 1735's I have seen over the last few years congrats!!!
NFL: Buffalo Bills & Green Bay Packers
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
Lovely coin!
Got this AU53 2 pesos recently. I've owned two in the past, one in higher grade that was poorly struck, and a cleaned MS with a great strike. I thought this one was a good balance of a great strike and patina with a touch of wear, was very excited to get it!
I really like the simplicity of this coin, but well executed and of marked rarity. The only graded uncirculated 1984FM Jamaica 10 dollar coin:
Well, just Love coins, period.
@7Jaguars Yes, The Blue Marlin - Very Rare - Mintage 335 - Nice coin.
Ah, that would be the proof. The uncirculated mintage not listed....
Well, just Love coins, period.
Arrived today
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DAYq8JJOczs/?igsh=aHZ1cTM5NHZzcTk5
Latin American Collection
Yes, I posted about the proof.
Is not this one?
Yes, that is the (U) uncirculated copper nickel coin - no mintage listed. Silver proof total mintage 335 pcs.
Well, just Love coins, period.
An early Santo Domingo 4m. The first coins of the American hemisphere, minted in Spain for commerce in one of the very first settlements in present day Dominican Republic. Those coins were minted in 1505. This one is a bit later version of the same coin.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
@SimonW I picked up one of Syd Martin's examples from the recent Stacks sale. Despite these being fairly common, I've never owned one for my collection (though I have two low-grade examples in my Mexico City inventory).
I really don't know much about these, so I hope this prompts me to learn a bit more about them.
I see yours straight graded. Mine did not.
@pruebas
I was watching that coin at Stacks, actually, but I really wanted a straight grade, so I ended up bailing. I really wanted it for the provenance also…but alas. Glad you got it! I really think it’s a nice piece, on another day it may have straight graded. I was thinking it could benefit from an olive oil soak, maybe some of that red stuff would dissolve. Cracking it though, you risk losing the pedigree.
Mine actually has more granularity than yours, at least on the obverse, it’s that red stuff that kills the straight grade. Otherwise yours has harder surfaces. I would like a nicer strike on mine.
Funny thing, I started looking at these when I saw your Mexican 2M coins! I’d really like to put together a type set of the Mexican coins from the first mint along with the Santo Domingo pieces. I too need to learn more, but from my limited research, Mexico minted the first coins in America, Santo Domingo had the first coins in America, but minted elsewhere…seems apropos to have both. I’m gonna dive into this a little more and see if I can find the very first minting from Santo Domingo. Not sure how rare they are.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
I hope I can take credit for getting you into Spanish colonial copper (what little there is of it)!
I love copper coins. These older pieces have gone through a lot of history and managed to survive. Copper is so reactive, so choice copper is quite special.
Each one of the coins below is finest graded at NGC MS65RB.
I have had this 1816 Mo 2/4 Senal for a long time, still raw, way difficult to find these in a nice condition.
@SimonW
Of the 4 Maravedis that I have seen from Santo Domingo, the one you posted and including the one from @pruebas are the best ones, for the details.
The ones I have seen show up that have been cleaned or the details are not too good on the surfaces, with some verdigris spots or oxidations, etc.
I have seen these in the $150 and up to $350 raw.
One of these days I might end up buying one...
@ELuis totally agree. My 2/4 is 1821 (the scarcer date) but only NGC AU55BN. I’ve yet to find a MS example that I like, so that remains my type coin.
Indeed.
I saw one but it was about three years ago or little more, for sale raw, better than the one in MS61 that was sold on Heritage, recently in this year btw, but when I went back to check it was sold already.
Never has seen in the wild raw the Tlaco's any in the condition of the ones you posted, and those two One Granos - Too much....
@pruebas you really do deserve the credit for planting the seed. I can usually boil my collections down to a single moment. Ed started me on pillar coinage, Eureka got me into Bolivian republic, you got me interested in early Latin copper…so forth and so on.
It’s utterly insane to me that your coins retain some form of red. Mid 1700’s coins that were SO well preserved that they still have red?! They’re crazy nice anyway, but that red bloom is what makes them. I don’t think one seen any of those types in the flesh.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
@ELuis @pruebas either of you two collect the big SUD coins? They seem difficult to find nice.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
For whatever reason, I never had an interest in those.
I did once have the opportunity to buy a large hoard of them, but declined.
Agreed, I’ve never seen a RD or RB example.
I am not, on one of the shows and I think I posted about it here last year, there was a guy from Mexico there with a bag of those coins maybe 50+ each was available for $100, saw some they were in great condition but did not buy one, he also had the bimetallic coin of "Don Quijote De La Mancha",he had also a lot of these, I bought one that did not kept for a long time and sold it.
Have seen the SUD Oaxaca 2R in other places, but these are in the $200+ - AU, but still you will expect to see verdigris at least a little in them.
Just got this one certified, a pretty tough one. The only one higher that I’m aware of is the coin Boosibri bought in Monte Carlo and certified as an MS62. As far as I know that coin is the only MS Peru 4 Real Pillar known. This is of lesser quality, but a really solid example of a very tough date.
PCGS VF25
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Only 4 graded at PCGS and 5 at NGC - Scarce. - Now in hand way better!
Only 4 graded at PCGS and 6 at NGC - Scarce. In hand now much better a nice coin!
Also this one, PCGS VF25
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
It’s still Thursday here, so I’ve got a couple more newly certified pieces:
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
@SimonW That 1758 Guatemala 1R - It is way difficult to find them in that condition - Kudos for that addition!
Thank you! They are tough. A fortunate bit of luck to get it.
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Nice coin.
The ex-Ortiz 1765 4R is an XF or low AU from the image. Interestingly, I found it illustrated in a web search by the claimed owner who seemed to live in Peru. (Not clear on that.)
PCGS has graded a 1761 4R as an MS-62. I infer it's the ex-Patterson coin but if not, that coin looks MS too.
Ortiz and Sellshopp both owned a 1771 4R that is the best known to me. MS-64 or so?
Ortiz also owned a 1753 that could grade MS. I believe this is the Gilboy plate coin.
Ortiz also had a 1759 which looks MS or real close to it.
Gilboy plate coins for the 1757 and 1764 look awfully close if not so.
Marti Hervera auctions sold a 1772 that should be MS, except that it was struck on what looks like a defective planchet. Multiple small but very noticeable dark patches where pieces of the metal appeared to have flake off from the coin blank. It sold for about 4000 Euro.
@WCC I didn’t mean to imply that there weren’t any MS coins out there, only that I wasn’t aware of any in the certified populations. Seems like there’s a bunch of Spanish colonial collectors that don’t certify stuff. I wasn’t aware of the 1761 PCGS coin. Thanks for the info!
I'm BACK!!! Used to be Billet7 on the old forum.
Understood
@TwoKopeiki I am anxiously awaiting the results of your testing and your article. This is a famous coin indeed and a real score.
Some great rarities are only known by chopped examples that came out of Asia during the big silver boom of the 1980s where bags and bags of silver coins returned from Asia, most of which went to the melting pots.
An example of another rarity from this period is the Mexico 1870-ZsYH 8R which was formerly in my collection. It is only known by one genuine piece (which I had NGC certify), and was previously in the collection of JB Parker then Michael McCormick, both complete collections of Republic 8 Rs.
I didn't want to take a chance with shipping this coin through Canadian customs, so picking it up in person from Stacks at the USMex show in just over a week. I'm also both anxious and excited about the test.
Thanks for sharing the info about the 1870-Zs YH - I'll add it to my list of things to watch for
I was hoping to add the 1872(1782) error, but couldn't chase it after a while. A great rarity only discovered amongst the Cazador silver with a documented royal decree recalling it, to boot.
8 Reales Madness Collection
Ah well a few other countries in the hemisphere.
Here is a scarce Guyana 1976 $50 Enmore martyrs commemorative. Mintage 100 in PL Uncirculated and large and in charge silver:
Well, just Love coins, period.
Sound idea. Plus, you will have access to many expert opinions there. And I believe World Numismatics has a handheld XRF scanner.
You’ll have another chance at the 1872 error since there are (supposedly) 4 known. Hopefully at a better price.
I once bid on the “1287”-Ga 8R, but let it go after bidding got too high. I still miss that coin and there aren’t many others.
Crossover, just got it graded MS65.
https://d1htnxwo4o0jhw.cloudfront.net/cert/164460499/medium/eLhaA5wi-kmsQFQ_bMqYbA.jpg