I'm a newbie here, but am also working on the boxing version of this set. I might actually try to get em all after reading some of your interesting posts.
Will post some pics of what I got so far, but here's the list
Jack Johnson Side View PSA 5 Jack Johnson Front View SGC 4's x2 (Hull Collection) Johnny Coulon SGC 5 Jim Jeffries Fighting PSA 4.5 Sam Langford PSA 4 Joe Jeannete PSA 5 Patsy Kline PSA5 Abe Attell PSA 3.5 Abe Goodman SGC 4 Frank Conley SGC 4 Charley Griffin SGC 4 Jack Goodman PSA 4.5 Unk Russell PSA 4.5 Jimmy Walsh PSA 4 Joe Gans PSA 4 Young Corbett PSA 4.5 Young Nitchie PSA 5 Knock Out Brown PSA 5 WM Papke PSA 4
Fighting Dick Nelson Ungraded VG-EX Tolstoi Back
Stanley Ketchell EX Ungraded
Pics to follow soon
I have a pretty good in with Beckett. Maybe we can all voice our opinions to them and PSA about how horribly they price these cards
-Boxing Is The Only Jungle Where The Lion Is Scared Of The Rat
Hey Scooter, when the hell did you go from 5.08 to 5.14? Dont even think for a minute im not watching. >>
Knock knock
Who's there?
Scooter
Scooter who?
Scooter who picked up a Jeffries in a 7.
Wasn't trying to upgrade the set, but found a Jeffries 7 for cheap, so I nabbed it. Now, just find something else to bump up another 0.05, to go from 5.14 to 5.19!!!
Scott- (and Bryan, Nick, and anyone else) I've got about a dozen dupes, mostly 7's but a few 6's and an 8. Would be very willing to give an unbalanced trade in your favor for any you might have that I need.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
didn't go- had it planned but changed my mind about a month ago. Picked up a few T218 upgrades over the last month or two though, along with a few other things that I've been looking for for years.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Sent in a sub last week with a dozen or so T218s, some of which have been sitting on my desk for over a year. My highest hopes are with this Keogh. Fingers crossed for a 7, but upper edge may hold it to a 6.
1 1 17206999 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS KNOCK-OUT BROWN PRIZE FIGHTER Card US 2 1 17207000 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS R.E. FRIZELLE ATHLETE Card US 3 1 17207001 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS HARRY HAYWOOD JR. ATHLETE Card US 4 1 17207002 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOSEPH JORDAN ATHLETE Card US 5 1 17207003 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS AL KAUFMAN PRIZE FIGHTER Card US 6 1 17207004 NEAR MINT 7 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JEROME KEOGH BILLIARDS Card US (Only one other 7, none higher. Woohoo!) 7 1 17207005 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS GEO. LOW GOLF Card US (cracked out of an SGC 60) 8 1 17207006 VERY GOOD+ 3.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS FRANKIE NEIL PRIZE FIGHTER Card US 9 1 17207007 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT+ 4.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS YOUNG NITCHIE PRIZE FIGHTER Card US 10 1 17207008 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS FRANK RILEY ATHLETE Card US 11 1 17207009 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS MARTIN SHERIDAN ATHLETE Card US 12 1 17207010 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHNNY SUMMERS SEATED-PRIZE FIGHTER Card US (cracked out of a BCCG 8)
One of the most influential Jewish boxers in the first half of the 20th Century, Cross succeeded Joe Bernstein as the idol of the ghetto in the Lower East Side in the late 1900s. During his career, Leach faced six world champions, including Hall of Famers Jack Britton and Johnny Dundee. Cross, who studied dentistry at New York University, was known as "The Fighting Dentist." Boxing historian, and founder of Ring magazine, Nat Fleischer wrote in his autobiography that Cross "was one of the standard bearers of boxing in New York... Leach, more than any other exponent of fisticuffs, popularized the sport among Jews of this city and created sectional rivalries that often resulted in neighborhood fights."
Birth and Death Dates: b. February 12, 1886 - d. September 7, 1957
Career Highlights: Born into an Orthodox family in New York City, Cross turned professional in 1905 and later said, "I came from the East Side. In those days, the fight bugs were mostly Irish, and so were most of the fighters. When I fought, the Irish used to come to see me get licked. The Jewish fans came to see me win. I gave the Irish a lot of headaches and flat pocketbooks." In the early years of his career, he attempted to keep his chosen profession from his father. In 1906, Cross came home with a black eye one night (after knocking out Bob Waters in the second round) and explained he had been hit with an elbow while playing basketball. Within two years though, Cross' father, and the rest of New York's Jewish community, would know of his boxing career. In 1908, Cross became the idol of the Jewish ghetto in New York's Lower East Side when he defeated the much-admired Joe Bernstein. News of his victory spread throughout the neighborhood and someone congratulated his father for Cross' success. That night, he said to Cross, "So, a prizefighter you are! I believe you when you come home with a black eye and tell me you got it playing basketball in the Clark House! Now I learn you are a prizefighter! A loafer! A nebish!" Part of the reason his father was so upset was that Cross had graduated from New York University's Dental College the previous year. Cross later revealed, however, that he only studied dentistry in case his boxing career failed and he needed another profession.
Despite his father's protests, Cross continued to fight after defeating Bernstein. A smart defensive boxer, Cross fought out of a shell of arms and elbows and employed the "Leach Stall," where he would feign grogginess or injury, then attack his opponent when he least expected it. On St. Patrick's Day in 1908, he knocked out Irishman Frankie Madden. The story ran in the Jewish Daily Forward, and is believed to be the first account of a boxing match ever to appear in a Yiddish language newspaper in the United States. In January 1909, Leach faced famous knockout specialist Young Otto and knocked him out in the fifth round; Cross later said that the victory was the most satisfying of his career.
Although Cross never got the opportunity to fight for a title, he faced the best boxers of his day. In the early 1910s, he fought three world champions, with all three bouts ending in 10-round no decisions -- future welterweight champions Matt Wells (in June 1911) and Jack Britton (in October 1912), and former lightweight champion Battling Nelson (in November 1912). Then, in April 1914, Cross fought world lightweight champ Freddie Welsh in a non-title fight and lost a decision. The following year, Cross fought former lightweight champion Ad Wolgast twice, winning the second fight on a second-round technical knockout after the first ended in a no decision. Cross also fought future world champion Johnny Dundee in 1915, in a bout that ended in a no decision.
Soon after his second contest with Wolgast, Leach decided to retire. He made a brief comeback in 1921, but retired for good after losing a 10-round decision to Jimmy Duffy in July. One of the most popular fighters of the 1900s and 1910s, Cross retired without ever receiving a title shot despite winning 43 bouts in 55 career decisions (with 99 no decisions). Nat Fleischer , the Hall of Fame founder of Ring magazine, noted that Cross was so popular because "he always gave the fans a run for their money. Though he never won a title he was of championship calibre throughout his career...Cross was a great club fighter and in his heyday, that meant a lot."
Origin: New York City
Career Statistics: Professional record: Wins: 43 (25 by knockout) Losses: 10 Draws: 2 No decisions: 99
Good question - not sure about the factory number on the Tolstois. But there was this thread from Net 54 last year, which has a list of only 49 cards (series 2) which were available with Tolstoi backs:
Patsy Brannigan - Boxer Knock-out Brown - Boxer Walter Bursch Young Corbett - Boxer Leach Cross - Boxer C.M. Daniels (head to waist) Young Donahoe - Boxer W.C. Fielding John Flanagan (head to waist) Joe Gans - Boxer George Gardiner - Boxer H.E. Gissing Abe Goodman - Boxer Jack Goodman - Boxer Charley Griffin - Boxer J.L. Hartranft Harry Haywood Jr. Joe Jeanette - Boxer James Jeffries(Portrait) - Boxer Harry Jensen Jack Johnson (front) - Boxer Joseph Jordan Al Kaufman - Boxer W.J. Keating W.J. Kramer Sam Langford - Boxer Young Loughrey - Boxer Emilo Lunghi Honey Mellody - Boxer Frankie Neil - Boxer Fighting Dick Nelson - Boxer Young Nitchie - Boxer Smythe Northridge George J. Obermeyer Philadelphia Jack O'Brien - Boxer Tommy O'Keefe - Boxer Billy Papke - Boxer Frank Riley J.A. Ruddy UNK Russell - Boxer Harry Sedley Jr. Melvin W. Sheppard (front) C.C. Steinert Harry Stone - Boxer Mike Sullivan - Boxer Clarence B. Tippett Jimmy Walsh - Boxer R.P. Williams Harold A. Wilson
Funny. I just performed a Google Image search for "T218 Tolstoi" hoping to find some scans to check the factory numbers. Didn't find any, but did turn up all of our avatars.
Thanks - I only had 2 of them before, so with the 6 new-ish ones pictured above, I've got a whopping 8 now. I believe there are 49 total cards which have Tolstoi backs - 26 boxers and 23 athletes.
As I've mentioned previously, I think the weight composition on the registry is not really in the neighborhood of what it should be, and I'd like to gauge the level of interest in getting it changed... and if it'd be possible to reach something like consensus on what it should be. This isn't really of great concern to me. No changes are going to vault my collection up the charts. But, I guess, as a big fan of the set, I'd just like to see it get more careful attention on the registry.
Below is a list of changes as I'd like to see them, the most substantial of which is to reflect the greater demand/value for the common boxers over the common "athletes." I also think a handful of the boxers' values, particularly Abe Atell, need further bumps. As it stands now, the only boxers above common status are Johnson and Jeffries.
Anyway, just spitballing and hoping to get some feedback.
Issue Weight PLATT ADAMS 1.00 DAN AHEARNE 1.00 ABE ATTELL 1.00 >>>>> 5.00 CHAS J. BACON JR 1.00 MATTY BALDWIN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 PATSY BRANNIGAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 KNOCK-OUT BROWN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 SAILOR BURKE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 WALTER BURSCH 1.00 HARRY CLINE 4.00 ROBERT CLOUGHEN 1.00 TOM COLLINS 1.00 FRANKIE CONLEY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 YOUNG CORBETT 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JOHNNY COULON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 LEACH CROSS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JAMES CROWLEY 1.00 ALBERT CUTLER 4.00 ALBERT CUTLER/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 JOHN DALY/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 C.M. DANIELS/HEAD TO WAIST 1.00 C.M. DANIELS/SEATED BY POOL 1.00 ALFREDO DE ORO 4.00 AL DELMONT 1.00 CALVIN DEMAREST 4.00 DAVE DESCHLER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 YOUNG DONAHOE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 FINDLAY DOUGLAS 4.00 JEM DRISCOLL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 ALEX DUNBAR 4.00 JACK ELLER 1.00 RAY C. EWRY 1.00 CHARLES EYTON/REFEREE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 W.C. FIELDING 1.00 JOHN FLANAGAN/FULL LENGTH 1.00 JOHN FLANAGAN/HEAD TO WAIST 1.00 R.E. FRIZELLE 1.00 JOE GANS 1.00 >>>>> 4.00 GEORGE GARDINER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JIMMY GARDNER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 S.P. GILLES 1.00 H.E. GISSING 1.00 ANDREW GLARNER 1.00 ABE GOODMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JACK GOODMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 BUDD GOODWIN 1.00 CHARLEY GRIFFIN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 CHARLES K. HAMILTON 4.00 H.J. HANDY 1.00 J.L. HARTRANFT 1.00 JOHNNY HAYES 1.00 HARRY HAYWOOD JR. 1.00 WILLIAM HEINS 4.00 F. HERRESHOFF 4.00 HARRY HILLMAN 1.00 JACK HOBENS 4.00 HANS HOLMER 1.00 WILLIE HOPPE 4.00 >>>>> 6.00 WILLIE HOPPE/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 >>>>> 6.00 ARCH HOXSEY 4.00 THOMAS HUESTON 4.00 BATTLING HURLEY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 DICK HYLAND 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 FRANK C. IRONS 1.00 JOE JEANNETTE 1.00 >>>>> 4.00 JAMES JEFFRIES 9.00 >>>>> 8.00 JAMES J. JEFFRIES 9.00 >>>>> 8.00 HARRY JENSEN 1.00 THURE JOHANSSON 1.00 LEE R. JOHNS/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 JACK JOHNSON/FRONT VIEW 10.00 JACK JOHNSON/SIDE VIEW 10.00 RALPH JOHNSTONE 4.00 JOSEPH JORDAN/ROLLERSKATER 5.00 >>>>> 4.00 AL KAUFMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 W.J. KEATING 1.00 JEROME KEOGH/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 STANLEY KETCHELL 1.00 >>>>> 4.00 BERT KEYES 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 ABEL KIVIAT 1.00 FRANK KLAUS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 PATSY KLINE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 W.J. KRAMER 1.00 SAM LANGFORD 1.00 >>>>> 4.00 WALTER LEE 1.00 HARRY LEWIS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 WILLIE LEWIS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 GUSTA LJUNGSTROM 1.00 YOUNG LOUGHREY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 GEORGE LOW 4.00 EMILO LUNGHI 1.00 LOU MANLEY 1.00 JOHNNY MARTO 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 J.J. MCENTEE 1.00 PACKEY MCFARLAND 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 PHIL MCGOVERN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 M.J. MCGRATH 1.00 FRED MEADOWS 1.00 HONEY MELLODY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 J.B. MOISANT 5.00 >>>>> 4.00 OWEN MORAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 ORA MORNINGSTAR 4.00 ORA MORNINGSTAR/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 TOMMY MURPHY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 FRANKIE NEIL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 BATTLING NELSON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 FIGHTING DICK NELSON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 GIL NICHOLLS 4.00 YOUNG NITCHIE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 SMYTHE NORTHRIDGE 1.00 GEORGE J. OBERMEYER 1.00 PHILADELPHIA JACK O BRIEN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 THOMAS O CALLAGHAN 1.00 TOMMY O KEEFE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 TOMMY O TOOLE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 BILLY PAPKE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 PAUL PILGRIM 1.00 HARRY PORTER 1.00 JAMES RECTOR 1.00 GLENN RIDDELL 4.00 FRANK RILEY 1.00 W.C. ROBBINS 1.00 LAWSON ROBERTSON 1.00 J.A. RUDDY 1.00 UNK RUSSELL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 HARRY SEDLEY JR. 1.00 PERCY SELLEN 1.00 MELVIN W. SHEPPARD/FRONT FACE 1.00 MELVIN W. SHEPPARD/SIDE FACE 1.00 MARTIN SHERIDAN 1.00 ALEX SMITH 4.00 C.C. STEINERT 1.00 JIM STEWART 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 HARRY STONE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JACK TWIN SULLIVAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JAMES P. SULLIVAN 1.00 MIKE TWIN SULLIVAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JOHNNY SUMMERS/SEATED 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JOHNNY SUMMERS/STANDING 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 GEORGE SUTTON 4.00 GEORGE SUTTON/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 E.J. SWEENEY 1.00 CLARENCE B. TIPPETT 1.00 C.D. TRUBENBACH 1.00 EDDIE WALSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 JIMMY WALSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 FRED WELSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 BILLY WEST 1.00 >>>>> 2.00 COWBOY CHARLES WESTON 4.00 EDWARD PAYSON WESTON 5.00 >>>>> 4.00 R.P. WILLIAMS 1.00 HAROLD A. WILSON/WALKER 1.00 AD WOLGAST 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
I'd agree with everything except the common boxers doubling from a weight of 1 to 2. They aren't any tougher to find than any other non boxer. I do agree on the weighting bumps for HOF boxers like Ketchel and Langford and Gans, and the drop on Jefferies. Personally I think the entire concept of weighting is stupid. If you are short a card in the set you're short the card, it doesn't matter. No card is scarcer than any other, a few just cost a bit more.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
The boxers may not be tougher to find, but PSA describes the weight as being based in value/pricing, not on scarcity. Certainly, the boxers trend higher than the athletes that way. I agree it may not be quite double, but on a 10-point scale, it doesn't seem quite right either to in effect declare the Jack Johnson cards at a value 10 times greater than the common boxers. You may be able to get a common boxer in PSA 5 in the neighborhood of $25-$30, but Johnsons in PSA 5 don't go for $250 to $300. Even to bump the common boxers up from a tenth to a fifth of the value of the top weighted card still seems a bit light.
Actually, it may be better to switch to a 5-point scale rather than the 10-point, with, generally speaking, athletes at 1, boxers at 2, golf/aviation/billiards/bowling and more prominent boxers at 3, maybe Jeffries at 4, and the Johnsons at 5. Just thinking out loud.
A bunch of us on another board (Net 54) are working on a T218 back survey. If you're interested, no matter how many you have and no matter the condition, please shoot me a pm or an email (griffinscards@yahoo.com) and I'll send you the spread sheet. It will be interesting to see what % are Mecca vs. Hassan, and how many Tolstois we can come up with.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Prowling around eBay and found these. I think they're pretty remarkable in that I don't recall ever seeing a C52 that didn't look like a dog's chew toy.
Piggybacked on a February special and just popped. Very pleased.
30 1 19708986 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHN DALY BILLIARDS Card 31 1 19708987 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT+ 4.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS F. HERRESHOFF GOLF Card 32 1 19708988 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS THOMAS HUESTON BILLIARDS Card 33 1 19708989 NEAR MINT 7 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS M.J. McGRATH ATHLETE Card 34 1 19708990 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHNNY MARTO PRIZE FIGHTER Card 35 1 19708991 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS ORA MORNINGSTAR PORTRAIT-BILLIARDS Card
It's been a while with no activity here, so I figured I'd check in. I don't have much in the way of T218's to add, but I picked up a near set of some similar cards which I wasn't even aware of before seeing these.
Is anyone familiar with the E229 set? It's a 25 card set issued by Y&S Licorice, featuring many of the same athlete poses as those seen in the T218 set. Couple of scans from the 22 card lot I picked up....
Well since Scott has passed me on the registry there is nothing left for me to do but sell my set.
Obviously I am just kidding about Scott, but I did list my set on the BST for sale. It has been great collecting this set with all of you, but it's time to invest the money I have tied to the set into something else. Continued success to everyone on their sets, and Scott, just imagine the registry leap you would take if you bought my set and merged it with yours.
Good call on bumping this back up - anyone have any new T218's to show?
I just got a new set added to the registry last week - the Canadian sister of the T218's - the C52 set. I have the set nearly complete, with 33 graded cards and another 70 raw. I think I will submit the raw group on one of the monthly specials coming up, so I can have a near complete PSA set.
These C52 cards are tough, and command quite a nice premium - I sold some extras on eBay a week or two ago, and VG-ish boxing commons went around $40, and athletes in the same shape were around $10-20 each. Maybe a hair shy of where I've seen Tolstois selling for recently?
I'll give this thread a bump since there was a full set of T218's broken up and sold on eBay last night. I was eying a few cards in order to give my set a bump in a couple of spots where my cards are weak, but was shut out on the ones I liked.
I thought prices were decently strong on the cards which just sold, esp. compared to what I think has been a bit of a weak market when I've tried to sell a few things of late.
Any new blood on this set? Who were the active participants buying the PWCC set break last night??
I picked up a few upgrades, prices were all over the place- a few high, a few low. There was also a PSA9 that went for way too much, someone wanted that one badly.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
If I did my math right (and I hope I did, since I do finance work for a living), the set break-up brought in just shy of $9,500 (gross) on eBay. Not bad for a set which just sold through Heritage a few months ago for somewhere around $5,500 if I remember right!
Interesting, since a couple of folks here tried to sell complete PSA sets unsuccessfully, but the break-up brought in nearly double what the set sold for in whole. I know that complete sets often sell for less, but that just seemed like a huge disparity in the final amounts! Congrats to the seller I guess, and a lesson for the rest of us if/when we ever look to sell our sets!
I broke up my 2nd set a few years ago, and realized about 150% of what I'd tried to sell the set price. Possibly could've been even higher but someone renegged on about a dozen and I relisted at a bad selling time.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Looks like no one has added to this set in quite a while, but I think I am going to start it up. I'm going to Try to get it in PSA 5 and will be starting with the boxers.
I still love this set, but it's tough coming across any upgrades. There are some higher grade cards on ebay but they are priced to keep. Good luck pdub, I'd keep an eye out for anything- some non boxers (especially the square frames and aviators) can be as tough or tougher.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Thanks for reviving the thread, Paul - I still love this set as well! Your cards hopefully will arrive today, so I hope you enjoy them!
I have been focused more on some of the tangent sets to the T218, most notably the C52 set. The cards are close to impossible to find, so the last handful of (known) ones which I need have been tough to come across.
Anyone with any extra C52's they might have, or may want to trade with some of my extras? I have conditions ranging from beaters to NM, so I'll take whatever I can find!
Comments
looking for low grade t205's psa 1-2
The grade weights are all messed up, anyway. One of these days, we should all get together and try to fix that.
I'm a newbie here, but am also working on the boxing version of this set. I might actually try to get em all after reading some of your interesting posts.
Will post some pics of what I got so far, but here's the list
Jack Johnson Side View PSA 5
Jack Johnson Front View SGC 4's x2 (Hull Collection)
Johnny Coulon SGC 5
Jim Jeffries Fighting PSA 4.5
Sam Langford PSA 4
Joe Jeannete PSA 5
Patsy Kline PSA5
Abe Attell PSA 3.5
Abe Goodman SGC 4
Frank Conley SGC 4
Charley Griffin SGC 4
Jack Goodman PSA 4.5
Unk Russell PSA 4.5
Jimmy Walsh PSA 4
Joe Gans PSA 4
Young Corbett PSA 4.5
Young Nitchie PSA 5
Knock Out Brown PSA 5
WM Papke PSA 4
Fighting Dick Nelson Ungraded VG-EX Tolstoi Back
Stanley Ketchell EX Ungraded
Pics to follow soon
I have a pretty good in with Beckett. Maybe we can all voice our opinions to them and PSA about how horribly they price these cards
<< <i>300
Hey Scooter, when the hell did you go from 5.08 to 5.14? Dont even think for a minute im not watching.
Knock knock
Who's there?
Scooter
Scooter who?
Scooter who picked up a Jeffries in a 7.
Wasn't trying to upgrade the set, but found a Jeffries 7 for cheap, so I nabbed it. Now, just find something else to bump up another 0.05, to go from 5.14 to 5.19!!!
I've got about a dozen dupes, mostly 7's but a few 6's and an 8. Would be very willing to give an unbalanced trade in your favor for any you might have that I need.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
<< <i>.........for any you might have that I need. >>
My crystal ball is on the fritz.
Any good pickups at the National for you Anthony?
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Sent in a sub last week with a dozen or so T218s, some of which have been sitting on my desk for over a year. My highest hopes are with this Keogh. Fingers crossed for a 7, but upper edge may hold it to a 6.
Edited to spell Keogh correctly this time.
2 1 17207000 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS R.E. FRIZELLE ATHLETE Card US
3 1 17207001 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS HARRY HAYWOOD JR. ATHLETE Card US
4 1 17207002 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOSEPH JORDAN ATHLETE Card US
5 1 17207003 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT 4 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS AL KAUFMAN PRIZE FIGHTER Card US
6 1 17207004 NEAR MINT 7 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JEROME KEOGH BILLIARDS Card US (Only one other 7, none higher. Woohoo!)
7 1 17207005 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS GEO. LOW GOLF Card US (cracked out of an SGC 60)
8 1 17207006 VERY GOOD+ 3.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS FRANKIE NEIL PRIZE FIGHTER Card US
9 1 17207007 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT+ 4.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS YOUNG NITCHIE PRIZE FIGHTER Card US
10 1 17207008 EXCELLENT 5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS FRANK RILEY ATHLETE Card US
11 1 17207009 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS MARTIN SHERIDAN ATHLETE Card US
12 1 17207010 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHNNY SUMMERS SEATED-PRIZE FIGHTER Card US (cracked out of a BCCG 8)
Pleased overall. About what I expected.
James Jeffries Arms folded PSA 7
Hope it wasn't one of you guys I ran the price up on.
I put in a bid just to make sure it didn't go for less than $100. I think it's still a steal at $160.
The Fighting Dentist...
from jewsinpsorts.org...
Cross, Leach
Louis C. Wallach
One of the most influential Jewish boxers in the first half of the 20th Century, Cross succeeded Joe Bernstein as the idol of the ghetto in the Lower East Side in the late 1900s. During his career, Leach faced six world champions, including Hall of Famers Jack Britton and Johnny Dundee. Cross, who studied dentistry at New York University, was known as "The Fighting Dentist." Boxing historian, and founder of Ring magazine, Nat Fleischer wrote in his autobiography that Cross "was one of the standard bearers of boxing in New York... Leach, more than any other exponent of fisticuffs, popularized the sport among Jews of this city and created sectional rivalries that often resulted in neighborhood fights."
Birth and Death Dates:
b. February 12, 1886 - d. September 7, 1957
Career Highlights:
Born into an Orthodox family in New York City, Cross turned professional in 1905 and later said, "I came from the East Side. In those days, the fight bugs were mostly Irish, and so were most of the fighters. When I fought, the Irish used to come to see me get licked. The Jewish fans came to see me win. I gave the Irish a lot of headaches and flat pocketbooks." In the early years of his career, he attempted to keep his chosen profession from his father. In 1906, Cross came home with a black eye one night (after knocking out Bob Waters in the second round) and explained he had been hit with an elbow while playing basketball. Within two years though, Cross' father, and the rest of New York's Jewish community, would know of his boxing career.
In 1908, Cross became the idol of the Jewish ghetto in New York's Lower East Side when he defeated the much-admired Joe Bernstein. News of his victory spread throughout the neighborhood and someone congratulated his father for Cross' success. That night, he said to Cross, "So, a prizefighter you are! I believe you when you come home with a black eye and tell me you got it playing basketball in the Clark House! Now I learn you are a prizefighter! A loafer! A nebish!" Part of the reason his father was so upset was that Cross had graduated from New York University's Dental College the previous year. Cross later revealed, however, that he only studied dentistry in case his boxing career failed and he needed another profession.
Despite his father's protests, Cross continued to fight after defeating Bernstein. A smart defensive boxer, Cross fought out of a shell of arms and elbows and employed the "Leach Stall," where he would feign grogginess or injury, then attack his opponent when he least expected it. On St. Patrick's Day in 1908, he knocked out Irishman Frankie Madden. The story ran in the Jewish Daily Forward, and is believed to be the first account of a boxing match ever to appear in a Yiddish language newspaper in the United States. In January 1909, Leach faced famous knockout specialist Young Otto and knocked him out in the fifth round; Cross later said that the victory was the most satisfying of his career.
Although Cross never got the opportunity to fight for a title, he faced the best boxers of his day. In the early 1910s, he fought three world champions, with all three bouts ending in 10-round no decisions -- future welterweight champions Matt Wells (in June 1911) and Jack Britton (in October 1912), and former lightweight champion Battling Nelson (in November 1912). Then, in April 1914, Cross fought world lightweight champ Freddie Welsh in a non-title fight and lost a decision. The following year, Cross fought former lightweight champion Ad Wolgast twice, winning the second fight on a second-round technical knockout after the first ended in a no decision. Cross also fought future world champion Johnny Dundee in 1915, in a bout that ended in a no decision.
Soon after his second contest with Wolgast, Leach decided to retire. He made a brief comeback in 1921, but retired for good after losing a 10-round decision to Jimmy Duffy in July. One of the most popular fighters of the 1900s and 1910s, Cross retired without ever receiving a title shot despite winning 43 bouts in 55 career decisions (with 99 no decisions). Nat Fleischer , the Hall of Fame founder of Ring magazine, noted that Cross was so popular because "he always gave the fans a run for their money. Though he never won a title he was of championship calibre throughout his career...Cross was a great club fighter and in his heyday, that meant a lot."
Origin:
New York City
Career Statistics:
Professional record:
Wins: 43 (25 by knockout)
Losses: 10
Draws: 2
No decisions: 99
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Nice. I wonder if all the Tolstois have the same factory number.
Patsy Brannigan - Boxer
Knock-out Brown - Boxer
Walter Bursch
Young Corbett - Boxer
Leach Cross - Boxer
C.M. Daniels (head to waist)
Young Donahoe - Boxer
W.C. Fielding
John Flanagan (head to waist)
Joe Gans - Boxer
George Gardiner - Boxer
H.E. Gissing
Abe Goodman - Boxer
Jack Goodman - Boxer
Charley Griffin - Boxer
J.L. Hartranft
Harry Haywood Jr.
Joe Jeanette - Boxer
James Jeffries(Portrait) - Boxer
Harry Jensen
Jack Johnson (front) - Boxer
Joseph Jordan
Al Kaufman - Boxer
W.J. Keating
W.J. Kramer
Sam Langford - Boxer
Young Loughrey - Boxer
Emilo Lunghi
Honey Mellody - Boxer
Frankie Neil - Boxer
Fighting Dick Nelson - Boxer
Young Nitchie - Boxer
Smythe Northridge
George J. Obermeyer
Philadelphia Jack O'Brien - Boxer
Tommy O'Keefe - Boxer
Billy Papke - Boxer
Frank Riley
J.A. Ruddy
UNK Russell - Boxer
Harry Sedley Jr.
Melvin W. Sheppard (front)
C.C. Steinert
Harry Stone - Boxer
Mike Sullivan - Boxer
Clarence B. Tippett
Jimmy Walsh - Boxer
R.P. Williams
Harold A. Wilson
Funny. I just performed a Google Image search for "T218 Tolstoi" hoping to find some scans to check the factory numbers. Didn't find any, but did turn up all of our avatars.
How many of us need to try that before it shows up as one of the hot searches of the day?
Bump. Just because.
"The oldest American track and field (Olympic) medalist ever," earning a silver at age 47 in 1924, according to Wikipedia.
I've been fortunate enough to pick up a few Tolstoi backs of late, so I thought I'd share them. Would love to see others if you've got 'em...
Nice Tolstoi pickups. How many do you have now?
Below is a list of changes as I'd like to see them, the most substantial of which is to reflect the greater demand/value for the common boxers over the common "athletes." I also think a handful of the boxers' values, particularly Abe Atell, need further bumps. As it stands now, the only boxers above common status are Johnson and Jeffries.
Anyway, just spitballing and hoping to get some feedback.
Issue Weight
PLATT ADAMS 1.00
DAN AHEARNE 1.00
ABE ATTELL 1.00 >>>>> 5.00
CHAS J. BACON JR 1.00
MATTY BALDWIN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
PATSY BRANNIGAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
KNOCK-OUT BROWN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
SAILOR BURKE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
WALTER BURSCH 1.00
HARRY CLINE 4.00
ROBERT CLOUGHEN 1.00
TOM COLLINS 1.00
FRANKIE CONLEY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
YOUNG CORBETT 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JOHNNY COULON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
LEACH CROSS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JAMES CROWLEY 1.00
ALBERT CUTLER 4.00
ALBERT CUTLER/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
JOHN DALY/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
C.M. DANIELS/HEAD TO WAIST 1.00
C.M. DANIELS/SEATED BY POOL 1.00
ALFREDO DE ORO 4.00
AL DELMONT 1.00
CALVIN DEMAREST 4.00
DAVE DESCHLER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
YOUNG DONAHOE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
FINDLAY DOUGLAS 4.00
JEM DRISCOLL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
ALEX DUNBAR 4.00
JACK ELLER 1.00
RAY C. EWRY 1.00
CHARLES EYTON/REFEREE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
W.C. FIELDING 1.00
JOHN FLANAGAN/FULL LENGTH 1.00
JOHN FLANAGAN/HEAD TO WAIST 1.00
R.E. FRIZELLE 1.00
JOE GANS 1.00 >>>>> 4.00
GEORGE GARDINER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JIMMY GARDNER 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
S.P. GILLES 1.00
H.E. GISSING 1.00
ANDREW GLARNER 1.00
ABE GOODMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JACK GOODMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
BUDD GOODWIN 1.00
CHARLEY GRIFFIN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
CHARLES K. HAMILTON 4.00
H.J. HANDY 1.00
J.L. HARTRANFT 1.00
JOHNNY HAYES 1.00
HARRY HAYWOOD JR. 1.00
WILLIAM HEINS 4.00
F. HERRESHOFF 4.00
HARRY HILLMAN 1.00
JACK HOBENS 4.00
HANS HOLMER 1.00
WILLIE HOPPE 4.00 >>>>> 6.00
WILLIE HOPPE/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00 >>>>> 6.00
ARCH HOXSEY 4.00
THOMAS HUESTON 4.00
BATTLING HURLEY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
DICK HYLAND 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
FRANK C. IRONS 1.00
JOE JEANNETTE 1.00 >>>>> 4.00
JAMES JEFFRIES 9.00 >>>>> 8.00
JAMES J. JEFFRIES 9.00 >>>>> 8.00
HARRY JENSEN 1.00
THURE JOHANSSON 1.00
LEE R. JOHNS/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
JACK JOHNSON/FRONT VIEW 10.00
JACK JOHNSON/SIDE VIEW 10.00
RALPH JOHNSTONE 4.00
JOSEPH JORDAN/ROLLERSKATER 5.00 >>>>> 4.00
AL KAUFMAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
W.J. KEATING 1.00
JEROME KEOGH/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
STANLEY KETCHELL 1.00 >>>>> 4.00
BERT KEYES 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
ABEL KIVIAT 1.00
FRANK KLAUS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
PATSY KLINE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
W.J. KRAMER 1.00
SAM LANGFORD 1.00 >>>>> 4.00
WALTER LEE 1.00
HARRY LEWIS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
WILLIE LEWIS 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
GUSTA LJUNGSTROM 1.00
YOUNG LOUGHREY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
GEORGE LOW 4.00
EMILO LUNGHI 1.00
LOU MANLEY 1.00
JOHNNY MARTO 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
J.J. MCENTEE 1.00
PACKEY MCFARLAND 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
PHIL MCGOVERN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
M.J. MCGRATH 1.00
FRED MEADOWS 1.00
HONEY MELLODY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
J.B. MOISANT 5.00 >>>>> 4.00
OWEN MORAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
ORA MORNINGSTAR 4.00
ORA MORNINGSTAR/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
TOMMY MURPHY 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
FRANKIE NEIL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
BATTLING NELSON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
FIGHTING DICK NELSON 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
GIL NICHOLLS 4.00
YOUNG NITCHIE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
SMYTHE NORTHRIDGE 1.00
GEORGE J. OBERMEYER 1.00
PHILADELPHIA JACK O BRIEN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
THOMAS O CALLAGHAN 1.00
TOMMY O KEEFE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
TOMMY O TOOLE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
BILLY PAPKE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
PAUL PILGRIM 1.00
HARRY PORTER 1.00
JAMES RECTOR 1.00
GLENN RIDDELL 4.00
FRANK RILEY 1.00
W.C. ROBBINS 1.00
LAWSON ROBERTSON 1.00
J.A. RUDDY 1.00
UNK RUSSELL 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
HARRY SEDLEY JR. 1.00
PERCY SELLEN 1.00
MELVIN W. SHEPPARD/FRONT FACE 1.00
MELVIN W. SHEPPARD/SIDE FACE 1.00
MARTIN SHERIDAN 1.00
ALEX SMITH 4.00
C.C. STEINERT 1.00
JIM STEWART 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
HARRY STONE 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JACK TWIN SULLIVAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JAMES P. SULLIVAN 1.00
MIKE TWIN SULLIVAN 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JOHNNY SUMMERS/SEATED 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JOHNNY SUMMERS/STANDING 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
GEORGE SUTTON 4.00
GEORGE SUTTON/FRAMED PORTRAIT 4.00
E.J. SWEENEY 1.00
CLARENCE B. TIPPETT 1.00
C.D. TRUBENBACH 1.00
EDDIE WALSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
JIMMY WALSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
FRED WELSH 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
BILLY WEST 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
COWBOY CHARLES WESTON 4.00
EDWARD PAYSON WESTON 5.00 >>>>> 4.00
R.P. WILLIAMS 1.00
HAROLD A. WILSON/WALKER 1.00
AD WOLGAST 1.00 >>>>> 2.00
Edited to add a bump for Joe Jeannette.
Personally I think the entire concept of weighting is stupid. If you are short a card in the set you're short the card, it doesn't matter. No card is scarcer than any other, a few just cost a bit more.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
The boxers may not be tougher to find, but PSA describes the weight as being based in value/pricing, not on scarcity. Certainly, the boxers trend higher than the athletes that way. I agree it may not be quite double, but on a 10-point scale, it doesn't seem quite right either to in effect declare the Jack Johnson cards at a value 10 times greater than the common boxers. You may be able to get a common boxer in PSA 5 in the neighborhood of $25-$30, but Johnsons in PSA 5 don't go for $250 to $300. Even to bump the common boxers up from a tenth to a fifth of the value of the top weighted card still seems a bit light.
Actually, it may be better to switch to a 5-point scale rather than the 10-point, with, generally speaking, athletes at 1, boxers at 2, golf/aviation/billiards/bowling and more prominent boxers at 3, maybe Jeffries at 4, and the Johnsons at 5. Just thinking out loud.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Prowling around eBay and found these. I think they're pretty remarkable in that I don't recall ever seeing a C52 that didn't look like a dog's chew toy.
C52 Platt Adams PSA 8
C52 Frank Irons PSA 8
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Nice addition, Anthony. Looks to be in great shape.
Piggybacked on a February special and just popped. Very pleased.
30 1 19708986 EXCELLENT+ 5.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHN DALY BILLIARDS Card
31 1 19708987 VERY GOOD-EXCELLENT+ 4.5 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS F. HERRESHOFF GOLF Card
32 1 19708988 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS THOMAS HUESTON BILLIARDS Card
33 1 19708989 NEAR MINT 7 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS M.J. McGRATH ATHLETE Card
34 1 19708990 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS JOHNNY MARTO PRIZE FIGHTER Card
35 1 19708991 EXCELLENT-MINT 6 1910 T218 CHAMPIONS ORA MORNINGSTAR PORTRAIT-BILLIARDS Card
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Thanks, guys. Here are the raw scans...
Is anyone familiar with the E229 set? It's a 25 card set issued by Y&S Licorice, featuring many of the same athlete poses as those seen in the T218 set. Couple of scans from the 22 card lot I picked up....
Obviously I am just kidding about Scott, but I did list my set on the BST for sale. It has been great collecting this set with all of you, but it's time to invest the money I have tied to the set into something else. Continued success to everyone on their sets, and Scott, just imagine the registry leap you would take if you bought my set and merged it with yours.
Nick
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
I just got a new set added to the registry last week - the Canadian sister of the T218's - the C52 set. I have the set nearly complete, with 33 graded cards and another 70 raw. I think I will submit the raw group on one of the monthly specials coming up, so I can have a near complete PSA set.
These C52 cards are tough, and command quite a nice premium - I sold some extras on eBay a week or two ago, and VG-ish boxing commons went around $40, and athletes in the same shape were around $10-20 each. Maybe a hair shy of where I've seen Tolstois selling for recently?
Anyone else have any C52's?
C52 PSA set
I thought prices were decently strong on the cards which just sold, esp. compared to what I think has been a bit of a weak market when I've tried to sell a few things of late.
Any new blood on this set? Who were the active participants buying the PWCC set break last night??
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Interesting, since a couple of folks here tried to sell complete PSA sets unsuccessfully, but the break-up brought in nearly double what the set sold for in whole. I know that complete sets often sell for less, but that just seemed like a huge disparity in the final amounts! Congrats to the seller I guess, and a lesson for the rest of us if/when we ever look to sell our sets!
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
Looks like no one has added to this set in quite a while, but I think I am going to start it up. I'm going to Try to get it in PSA 5 and will be starting with the boxers.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/pdub1819/othersets/6204
Good luck pdub, I'd keep an eye out for anything- some non boxers (especially the square frames and aviators) can be as tough or tougher.
Always looking for Topps Salesman Samples, pre '51 unopened packs, E90-2, E91a, N690 Kalamazoo Bats, and T204 Square Frame Ramly's
I have a group coming to me by the end of the week, so hopefully I can keep this thread alive for a little bit.
https://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/pdub1819/othersets/6204
I have been focused more on some of the tangent sets to the T218, most notably the C52 set. The cards are close to impossible to find, so the last handful of (known) ones which I need have been tough to come across.
Anyone with any extra C52's they might have, or may want to trade with some of my extras? I have conditions ranging from beaters to NM, so I'll take whatever I can find!
C52 want list:
4b Dick Hyland BOX
5b Ad Wolgast BOX
6a Budd Goodwin TRK
8b Packy McFarland BOX
12 Battling Hurley BOX
23 C.M. Daniels (seated) TRK
50a Bert Keyes BOX
50b Jimmy Walsh BOX
Thanks!
Scott